Everyone, please look here. Serious.

[Navaron]

http://www.planetside-universe.com/hamma/frenchsupport.jpg

[mistled]

At least they haven't let it become overgrown. We'd seriously have to kick their asses then.

[�io]

Nav no offense bro but could you lay off the french bashing?

They are screwing stuff up yes, people have a right to be mad yes but 5 french bashing threads is a bit much.

[Derv]

That's a good visualization for all the warmongers out there. A number doesn't register when people hear or see just the numbers, such as 10,943 but when you can see all of the tombstones like that it sends the message home. War is not a pretty thing, and should not be declared willy-nilly. Hehe I like that term, "willy-nilly".

[Lexington_Steele]

:confused: I am not exactly sure what statement the picture it trying to make.

Clarification would be appreciated.

[Bighoss]

they better take care of monument if not in the name of America perhaps in the name of the Liberation of France from an "anonymous country". If the french bring the dead soldiers into this dispute then they are pathetic.

[Navaron]

People forget sacrifice easily. It's just a good image to bring gravity to the forum.

[mistled]

Lex, it's the tombstones of 11,000 dead who died liberating France. It's just showing that the French have no sense of appreciation for those who gave their lives to free a country that wasn't their own.

Nav, go to bed. It's late, you're tired. Go.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}Navaron
People forget sacrifice easily. It's just a good image to bring gravity to the forum.
IF that is the purpose than I agree with the sentiment, however the text that suggests re evaluating who our frinds are is what confused me.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by {BOHICA}mistled
Lex, it's the tombstones of 11,000 dead who died liberating France. It's just showing that the French have no sense of appreciation for those who gave their lives to free a country that wasn't their own.
I hope we entered the war because it was the right thing to do rather than because we were expecting something in return.

[�io]

Originally posted by Lexington_Steele
I hope we entered the war because it was the right thing to do rather than because we were expecting something in return.

:hug:

[Hamma]

How many mass french soldier graves are buried in the US?

;)

I know i said that wrong. But you get the idea.

[Squeeky]

I hate the french so much, :mad:

[Hamma]

For that matter, are there any gravesites like that anywhere in the world for the french lol

[Hamma]

Anyway its just to prove a point, not everyone would undertand what point its trying to prove.

Why the hell am I in this damn thread? Mfing political debate ;)

[�io]

Originally posted by Hamma
Anyway its just to prove a point, not everyone would undertand what point its trying to prove.

Why the hell am I in this damn thread? Mfing political debate ;)

:lol:

Yeah where's the anti-politics Hamma we all know and :love:!

:D

[Fire_Monkey]

Bah more racism, guys can you just dislike what the French government is doing instead of hating all French people randomly. Oh, I suppose you went to France recently and spoke with a few locals? But Squeeky, don't be an idiot.:)

[Squeeky]

Originally posted by Fire_Monkey
Bah more racism, guys can you just dislike what the French government is doing instead of hating all French people randomly. Oh, I suppose you went to France recently and spoke with a few locals? But Squeeky, don't be an idiot.:)

Hamma programmed me to be an idiot, Blame him

[�io]

Originally posted by Fire_Monkey
Bah more racism, guys can you just dislike what the French government is doing instead of hating all French people randomly.

:nod:

[Fire_Monkey]

Originally posted by Squeeky
Hamma programmed me to be an idiot, Blame him

:rofl:

[KrazyJester]

if you want to talk about french people, here: this came from another forum
Did you know it only took Germany three days to conquer France in World War II? Thats because it was raining"; said John Xereas, manager of the DC Improv.

David Letterman: "France wants more evidence (of Iraqi violations). The last time France wanted more evidence, it rolled right through France with a German flag."

Dennis Miller: "The only way the French are going in is if we tell them we found truffles in Iraq."

Jay Leno: "I don't know why people are surprised that France won't help us get Saddam out of Iraq. After all, France would'nt help us get the Germans out of France!"

Rep. Roy Blunt, R-Mo.: "Do you know how many Frenchman it takes to defend Paris? It's not known, it's never been tried."

Blunt again: "Somebody was telling me about the French Army rifle that was being advertised on eBay the other day -- the description was: 'Never shot. Dropped once.'"

And even! an unwitting French President Jacques Chirac: "As far as I'm concerned, war always means failure."

[xuur]

not that I support the french stance in the current human upheaval, but in actuality there are a number of french soldiers buried in the US. The french assisted the early american colonies in beating back the english and during the eventual english defeat at Yorktown.

I'm sure there are at least a few buried somewhere around.

mi dos centavos

[KrazyJester]

didnt do much we carried their a**es

[Yuyi]

that all couldn't be in one post hamma? OMG admin likes to make :spam: :spam: :spam: j/k :love:

[Navaron]

Some people are visual learners. I posted the pic that was fowarded to someone else, to someone else, to me - I didn't add the commentary. We did enter both of the first WW's with the intention of doing what is right, like we feel we are doing with Iraq. Take your jokes and bashing elsewhere - this isn't anti french, it's just that most people don't realize the American sacrifices to liberate much of the world.

[MrVicchio]

I have said it before, my experience in France was apoor one.

In a bar, in toulane France, a man came up to me and said:

"US Navy is SHIEET!"

To which I replied:

"If the US Navy is such Shieet, how come you aren't speaking German?"

To which he was unable to respond.

The French are a very arrogant people, yes I DID meet a few friendly towards us Sailors French people.. but most of those were hookers.... it was a bad time.

We were also chased down and nearly attacked by an anti-USA mob protesting our involvement in Kosovo, which had just started...

I really have very little respect for them

YES they helped us in the Revolutionary war... great, too bad they forgot why they did that.

[Gortha]

It is a pitty to read so much nonsense in this tread.

No one of u died at ohama beach.

The Americans entered the Zweiten Weltkrieg (WWII) becouse for fear of the Russians could take whole Europe....

Yeah the USA helped the Allies in this time to liberate france and other nations. But the french helped u enough too.

Who was fighting for "YOU" in Vietnam first... the frenchmen!

France was taken and conquered by the Germans.... the Iraq never attacked your country. This is the point.
You are talking about two absolute different things.

France is goin the right way like most other nations with good Leaders, they don�t crouch in US-Administrations ass.

Do not talk and think about the past. Take care of the future. And don�t make the same foults the Germans did with their leadership. Propaganda.... read this:

Part1:

http://www.systranlinks.com/systran/cgi?systran_lp=de_en&systran_id=Abacho-de&systran_url=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,239721,00.html&systran_f=1047475303

Part2:

http://www.systranlinks.com/systran/cgi?systran_lp=de_en&systran_id=Abacho-de&systran_url=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,239721-2,00.html&systran_f=1047475430

Gortha

[MrVicchio]

Gortha, I wasnt there, but my Grandfather DID land at Normandy, Was in the Battle of the Buldge, and hit unit first hit Auswitch(sp) And you know what, he made it through all that, and he saw many a fellow american die for those bastards..


BTW We entered the war to stop Germany, Russia was an ally, we didn't start getting REAL concerned with them until 1/2 the war through the war.

[Gortha]

ohh yes your Grandfather... nice man. Poor man. Real war is kind of shit ehh MrVic.

BTW IMO russia was a BIG ally... wich was on the way to counqer whole europe.

Gortha

[Zatrais]

Don't look at the past? If we don't look at the past, then the past will be what you wake up to tomorrow..

History has a nasty way of repeating itself once we forgett.

For instance,

The nazi's wasn't the first out to kill the ****, the inquisition was the first that tried to extrerminate the ****.

[Gortha]

yeah @ Zatrais u are right.

I don �t wanted to say that the past is unnessesary.

[MrVicchio]

Gortha, I am not one to lie, and he did do all as I said. He has told me things about WWII you wont read in the average history books. He doesn't mind talking about Normandy or the Buldge battle, but only twice has he talked about Austwich in my presence, and even then, it was hard for him.

War sucks, I know this, but on the flip side, Some wars are needed. WWII sadly, could have been averted had France not pushed to punish Germany so harshly... WWII could have been far less then it was had Europe went to war with germany for breaking the Treaty of Versaille instead of giving them a pass.. but they didn't... speaking of not going to war cause a country isn't following a cease fire/treaty...

[mistled]

Gortha, is your goal in life to insult people in the US, or do all of your fellow Germans hate you so you have to stay in the house and this is all you can find to do??

[Confectrix]

Zatrais,

The Inquisition "is usually meant a special ecclesiastical institutional for combating or suppressing heresy. Its characteristic mark seems to be the bestowal on special judges of judicial powers in matters of faith, and this by supreme ecclesiastical authority, not temporal or for individual cases, but as a universal and permanent office." - JOSEPH BL�TZER

Never was the Inquisition made with the inention of exterminating a race. Yes; some individuals had bad intentions but the idea was noble in its origin.

Gentlemen:

Let us not hope that a WWIII has to come along to unite our peoples once again. Disagreements are fine. Gossip/detractions/insults are not. Let us have a level of professionalism.

[�io]

I just wish people would stop all the H8. :(

Stop the h8 and :love: dammit, god damn fucking :love:!!! :flamemad:

[Gortha]

@ MrVicchio

i think u mean Auschwitz a Konzentrationslager (KZ) in East-Germany. Austwich is missspelled.

And believe me i know enough about WWII as a german.

A War at Iraq is no need.
But for your Oil-Barons it seems to be a need.

@{BOHICA}mistled

Who I did insult?

But thx for flames Msitled.... nice


Gortha

[Zatrais]

The intents and purposes of the inquesition means shit, it dosn't change the fact that it was the first "extermination" of the **** that would not give up their heritage and convert.

The idea of the inquesition was never of noble origins, the whole idea of it, once you look past the pretty words was to exterminate every religion in europe but christianity.

[Confectrix]

Gortha:

I want proof for your remarks. Where in an policy document has the US stated it is going after the oil in Iraq.

I have policy documents stating otherwise.

[Confectrix]

Zat:

THe intentions of its creation were noble. Did it live up to its end? No. Sadly.

[Zatrais]

I for one don't think the intents where noble at all, supressing somones belifs are not noble.

[Confectrix]

Suppresing one's beliefs; no. But when one is Catholic and that individual spreads error within the Church; the individual must be reprimanded at the least and at most excommunicated.

We still do it today. Take for example when one has an abortion. The scandel is too great for the church. The member is immedialty excommunicated. A priest can give local absolution [bishop does not need to be involved] from the excommunication but by definition they are out. [canon 5141]

[KoldFusion]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Gortha
It is a pitty to read so much nonsense in this tread.

No one of u died at ohama beach.

The Americans entered the Zweiten Weltkrieg (WWII) becouse for fear of the Russians could take whole Europe....

Yeah the USA helped the Allies in this time to liberate france and other nations. But the french helped u enough too.

Who was fighting for "YOU" in Vietnam first... the frenchmen!

France was taken and conquered by the Germans.... the Iraq never attacked your country. This is the point.
You are talking about two absolute different things.

France is goin the right way like most other nations with good Leaders, they don�t crouch in US-Administrations ass.

Do not talk and think about the past. Take care of the future. And don�t make the same foults the Germans did with their leadership. Propaganda.... read this:

Part1:

http://www.systranlinks.com/systran/cgi?systran_lp=de_en&systran_id=Abacho-de&systran_url=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,239721,00.html&systran_f=1047475303

Part2:

http://www.systranlinks.com/systran/cgi?systran_lp=de_en&systran_id=Abacho-de&systran_url=http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,239721-2,00.html&systran_f=1047475430

Gortha [/QUOTEWe were in vietnam to stop the fall of indochina to the communist AFTER ww2.... However your point is flawed....the french had been trying to take indochina for themselves for years and years (colonization)..... they were not there fighting for us. We first became intrested in indochina when japanese started to invade there in WW2 and we were at war with japan. After WW2 there was the Chinese revolution to communism and Ho Chi Minh started communism in what is known as N. Vietnam. The french were at war with Ho Chi Minh and asked us for help b/c they wanted to keep indochina. this isn't a history lesson I could go on forever.... If you want the book title I can give it to you when i get home.... I currently enrolled in a vietnam course.

ALL:

The reason the french are bitter right now is because they are still upset about vietnam. Right or Wrong.

[KrazyJester]

probably true WHR_Kold

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Confectrix
Gortha:

I want proof for your remarks. Where in an policy document has the US stated it is going after the oil in Iraq.

I have policy documents stating otherwise.

I went over this in another thread. But Iwill repeat it here in case you missed it.

The US government is playing politics.
The US government has nothing to gain by saying that oil is a motivation for war.

The US has something to lose if they say the war is for oil. Such a statement would be used by political opponents,,of the US, to make it look like the US wants war for immoral reasons.

This is why you will never hear the US government declare that oil is one of the motivations for the war with Iraq.

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Gortha
France is goin the right way like most other nations with good Leaders, they don�t crouch in US-Administrations ass.


That is garbage. It seems to me that France opposes a war because of it's own economic interests in Iraq. France has had a friendly relationship with Saddam for a long time.

In fact, France has the promise of the largets post saction era oil deal of any country in the world.

You argue that THE US's primary interest in the war is oil. I can create a similar, if not better, argument saying that France's motivations against war are primarily for oil.

I don't see how you can see the US's motivations as greedy while at the same time see France as altruistic.

[Confectrix]

oh yes lex and you honestly believe when this is all over that the Us will just pillage Iraq and demand American companies contracts.

That would look twice as bad for us.

Not only would we be immoral but we'd be a liar.

I don't think the administration is doing that gamble.

The Us have never pillaged; we won't start now.

[SilentCacophony]

I've always loved how straight military grave sites are.

Hmmm, maybe the french just don't want to do all that digging again. The U.S. may have helped out France, but it was WAR that put them there. If the U.S. was invaded, I'm sure they'd help. Iraq hasn't invaded the U.S. yet, have they? Maybe I missed something.... (and no 9/11 wasn't Iraq)

[Lexington_Steele]

Originally posted by Confectrix
oh yes lex and you honestly believe when this is all over that the Us will just pillage Iraq and demand American companies contracts.

We won't have to pillage persay. Since the Iraqi government will consist of a US administration, we can controll their foreign policy and trade policies.

As it stands right now, the US oil companies have no post sanction era oil deals with Iraq (that is 0 barrels of oil :p ). We are not going to be taking all of the oil, however US oil companies will be getting much more oil from Iraq than they would if there was no war (anything will be more than 0 barrels of oil).

[Gortha]

Okay Lex...
This sentence wasn�t good worded.

Oil is the scourge of the world.
I know that france, russia etc. have oil-contracs or national oil-companies have... .

This is a international oil-conflict between many nations.
The fear of the countries is and it is a qualified fear that the US when they control Iraq and its oil can blackmail them.

So why should france, germany and russia crouch into US-Administrations ass? They will lose their autonomy.

Greetz
Gortha

[SilentCacophony]

Noooo, the U.S. has never pillaged and taken over land. Hey, let's go out to a native reserve and speak a little more on that topic.

[�io]

Originally posted by SilentCacophony
Noooo, the U.S. has never pillaged and taken over land. Hey, let's go out to a native reserve and speak a little more on that topic.

Ok i got speak up for just 2 seconds to say VERY nice comeback Silent. :)

[KoldFusion]

BTW the main battle in vietnam that involved the french and the one the really got them angry with us with the battle of "dien bien phu" they were foolish enough to believe that they could dictate to the North when and where to fight by putting the bulk of the french army in one spot with mountains all around.... they felt that b/c of that the vietmanese would have to assualt from the front w/o artillery. However the Vietmanese got the artillery to the top by dismantling and carrying it up in pieces and reassembling it.... they also took to digging tunnels underneath the french and they popped out and blew them away. The french didn't know what hit them.... the siege lasted 76 days.... during that time the french asked for help from us in the form of air support. To make a long story short we refused and the french were obliterated.

[SilentCacophony]

Yeah, you'd be surprised how often I think of the natives when people talk about how great we are. They had a way of life that they were happy with. We came in with our own beliefs, our own government system, our own technology, our own diseases and fucked it all up. Some people may not have liked their system, but who were we to come in and screw it all up? The Native Americans had it the worst out of any civilization in the world. Intervention isn't always divine.

Just because it's YOUR way of thinking, people always feel it's the right one. Hmmmm, let's take that down to a smaller scale of thinking, and we got the exact same result for this debate and all the others on these forums.

[Bighoss]

the colonazation of America as well as the manifest destiny was a back handed Invasion. It was done slowly to people who were less developed in the ways of technology. I see nothing wrong with what Europe did either, they desired land, they found a lot, They took it. The Indians openly revolted a few times but we put down every single time. If they want there land back they can come and try to take it. Maybe we we should give all of Europe back to Italy if that's the mind set your in.

[OneManArmy]

so, Its all about the oil huh?

well we were there 10-12 years ago why didn't we take it then? America doesn't need thier oil. If I can find the surveys taken of this region you will see that North America does not need anybodys oil. lets keep going with the oil thing here. USA gets a lot of its oil from venezuela and other places within the Americas. yup, we are spending billions and billions of dollars to keep this thing going in iraq just for oil.. thats a way to make money. :rolleyes: did it ever occur to you that we might be trying to get rid of a murdrous fellon that some how rules a country? no, not you, its much easier to pick up a sign and h8 the usa than it is to look at facts and reason.

Please get off your god damn america bashing soap boxes and do some fucking research.

[Confectrix]

Article worht a read:

"So You Say It's About Oil?

The Bush administration, in preparation for the possible ouster of Saddam Hussein and any aftereffects that may entail, is soliciting bids for reconstruction and improvement projects in Iraq.

"Sure," you say, "they're looking for companies to rebuild the oil production capacity after the war."

Wrong.

The huge contracts, worth almost a billion dollars initially, are for roads, bridges, schools, hospitals and even mosques that might be damaged.

The U.S. is also soliciting emergency bids from some of the nation's biggest construction giants so that we can move fast and show the Iraqi people that we are serious about helping.

The U.S. Agency for International Development is also seeking bids to repair other things that might be damaged in war, or that may simply be dilapidated or outdated, such as airports, the electrical grid, printing operations and the like.

Some of the large companies that will be bidding are Louis Berger Group, Bechtel Group, the Fluor Corporation, and yes, for all you conspiracy theorists out there, a subsidiary of Halliburton - Kellogg, Brown & Root - is developing plans to fight oil well fires in case Saddam lights up the Middle East by blowing up his wells.

Incidentally, the plans are being developed under an existing contract with the government because that is what KB&R does, not because Dick Cheney was the CEO, so let's calm down out there.

So it seems that, contrary to the main argument of appeasement activists, the only thing Iraqi oil will be used for is to build Iraq itself." - Tuesday, March 11, 2003 11:45 a.m. EST; [http://newsmax.com/showinside.shtml?a=2003/3/11/115859]

[mistled]

Originally posted by Bighoss
they desired land, they found a lot, They took it. exactly, isn't this the way all countries get their land?? They take it from someone else??

ACtually, this is different because we are not attacking Iraq in an attempt to expand our borders. We aren't going in to take over. Hell, if that was the US mindset, we would have just taken France in WW2.

btw, since we get more oil from Canada than from most anywhere else, why aren't we invading them??

[Confectrix]

Or Mexico.

[mistled]

Yeah, some of these people who think the US is a bunch of war mongers need to explain why the US doesn't own all of North America.

[mistled]

Originally posted by Gortha
ohh yes your Grandfather... nice man. Poor man. btw Gortha, maybe I'm just taking it incorrectly, but this comes across negatively to me (since you asked where I saw an insult at).

[EarlyDawn]

Originally posted by SilentCacophony
Noooo, the U.S. has never pillaged and taken over land. Hey, let's go out to a native reserve and speak a little more on that topic.

That's a hot response. :D

[Arshune]

I'm going to throw some wild speculation about this war out there. Let's take the obvious reasons for war and throw them out the window for a while. Did you ever think maybe Bush is doing something long-term? It's a well known fact that Islamic extremists hate America and everything it stands for. It's also a well known fact that a lot of Arab nations are run by Islamic extremist regimes. Ever think maybe Afghanistan and Iraq are just being used as scapegoats to make a foothold for the democritization of the Arab world? It's like the master plan of communism: establish a few small regimes here and there and eventually you have a whole sweeping cultural revolution across a much wider area. The more people we "free" or in other words "put under our direct control," the more our influence spreads. I think he's planting the seeds of revolution across the entire Middle East.

Of course, this is completely ridiculous and ignores many important facts, but it'd be nice to think for just a minute that the American people elected an intelligent individual and not some monkey-headed idio-OH WAIT, we DID, he just didn't get to take office...

Edit: Yes, this does sound crazy, but give me a break. IT'S 2 IN THE FRIGGIN' MORNING.

[Gortha]

....Grandfather.... Poor Man.... he is/was a poor man that must experience a war.... nothing bad about him.... just bad that he had to experience a war.

Gortha