Dont think the HA should be able to fly.

[Purple]

Clerg just confirmed that all classes (not the MAX) can fly aircraft. this open up the ability for engineers to repair their own aircraft and get back in the air quickly like in PS1. however the issue i see is that it allows HA to be able to bail from aircraft and attack with their AV. it also allows HA to get ontop of towers without needing teamwork. i think they should remove HA from the pool of classes that can fly aircraft. Wondering what the PSU community thinks.

Edit: i am not suggesting that HA will use aircraft as something they bail from when they get to their destination. When i implied they could use it to get onto of towers i thought they would land on the landing pads not just bail somewhere over the towers.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Clerg just confirmed that all classes (not the MAX) can fly aircraft. this open up the ability for engineers to repair their own aircraft and get back in the air quickly like in PS1. however the issue i see is that it allows HA to be able to bail from aircraft and attack with their AV. it also allows HA to get ontop of towers without needing teamwork. i think they should remove HA from the pool of classes that can fly aircraft. Wondering what the PSU community thinks.

It was a good thing back then and it's a good thing now. Still, most pilots will be Light Assault.

[Zulthus]

That really doesn't make sense... why? There should be a dedicated pilot class for aircraft, or at least Light Assault IMO. Especially if the aircraft has a bailing mechanism, it'll be a worse scenario than in PS1. I'd prefer agiles with jackhammers bailing compared to Rexo's with much larger guns. Even in ground vehicles, the driver shouldn't be able to use anything bigger than LA unless it's an open top vehicle.


Is it just another way to make the BF crowd feel at home?

[GreatMazinkaise]

I think it's more a way to let the PS crowd feel more at home... the only real difference is you've got guys with R-Exo armor jumping out. Agile could carry HA/AV, as well as glue guns and Med applicators, y'know.

Not really seeing the problem.

[TheInferno]

Can we get one thread without blaming the Battlefield players? Please?

That being said, I agree with your concern. I'm just wondering if the lowered TTK will make it easier to deal with a solo Heavy Assault or harder. That's discounting the possibility of a whole squad of them doing the same thing as well, though, and if they have the ejector seat... not good.

It might be a good idea to at least prevent them from flying air vehicles. At least make them ride in the back of a liberator. No dedicated piloting class, though, and I don't personally see a problem with them driving ground vehicles.

EDIT: Mazinkasie also has a point... it could be a legitimate tactic. I don't know, we should see how it plays before we call nerf I guess.

[FuzzyandBlue]

I think this problem is balanced by the fact that vehicles are not free. Sure I can hop into a vehicle and bail out, but I waste x amount of a resource. At this time we don't know how much any vehicles will cost, as far as resources go.

Also the only way, based on the E3 footage, to bail out of an aircraft safely is to get an ejection seat. Otherwise you die on impact with a solid surface. I find it hard to believe that even the most skilled pilots will be able to bail out of their aircraft in a combat situation and land in an advantageous position.

As of right now I don't see any problem with every class but MAX being able to pilot aircraft.

[Baneblade]

No, let them fly it, but reduce their maneuverability and control appropriately for wearing such heavy armor. Ensure they will be flying... sitting ducks.

[NewSith]

As long as it's medic's or engi's job to dispense ammo (or the ammo packs are consumables), and not HA's, bailing with HA is fine.

[Ale]

HA being classed the way Rexo was in the orginal isn't a bad idea.

In fact, I'm all for HA not being able to fly or drive until ES buggies are in game. They should still be able to gun though, unlike MAXes, which will require special slots on the Sundy / Gal still, hopefully.

[Grognard]

As long as it's medic's or engi's job to dispense ammo (or the ammo packs are consumables), and not HA's, bailing with HA is fine.

So far, from the responses I have read, I fall in with NewSiths take on it. My instincts are starting to whisper balance issue very slightly, but could easily be wrong, given his restrictions.

I personally prefer that HA were not able to pilot craft due to it not making any sense to have personal rocket launchers, and heavy rifles in a fighter plane... but I am not 100% against it, cause this is a futuristic game, so, who knows...

Edit: Im still undecided about tanks, but Bangbuses should definately be driveable by HA, lotsa room for all kinds of stuff...

[Sirisian]

I don't see a problem. Especially since vehicles cost resources. The concept of someone wasting resources for a quick transport in the game to then drop and get a few kills sounds balanced in that regard. An engineer landing and reparing his vehicle and getting kills is just as powerful (if not more).

[mintyc]

i get the feeling that the cost of aircraft may play a role in this to. i am hopeing that it is impractical to constantly be useing aircraft as throw away transport like in the PS1.

or we could just have a sundy bus, man connon variant ;)

[Darthkorr]

I just dont see what the big deal is. So what if the HA can get into a hard to reach postion and start shootin with his AV? Takes multiple shots to bring down anything. Call it in and have someone shoot him out of there. call in your air guys or your LA to get up to him and wax him. If a bunch do it? Then good for them, find a way to take them out. Call in the Air support, call in that tank battalion over the ridge, or your sniper squad thats over the ridge across from them. If you can not do any of these things then they have effectively taken that area. and good on them. If i am completely flawed in this view please explain.

[Haro]

Given that bailing out isn't an option unless you are either very low to the ground or have the ejector seat cert, I don't see this as being a huge problem. Like elfailo said, there's a lot of stuff we don't know about this yet, but there are things like lock on times, fall damage, and fall recovery that could make this a lot harder. It probably won't be anything like falling out of a plane and instantly being able to turn and shoot. On the contrary, a pilot still flying will probably be able to track down and quickly finish off even an HA. Again, we don't really know enough to make a final call, but I'm not particularly worried.

[Toppopia]

I don't understand why people would want to be anything other than an engineer in vehicles. How else do you repair them after taking damage? It just makes me use the vehicle as a disposable 1 use item, but if i am an engineer then i will want to take care of it. So i think only LA or Engineers fly aircraft. Because why else would you be flying?

[NewSith]

I don't understand why people would want to be anything other than an engineer in vehicles. How else do you repair them after taking damage? It just makes me use the vehicle as a disposable 1 use item, but if i am an engineer then i will want to take care of it. So i think only LA or Engineers fly aircraft. Because why else would you be flying?

Hotdrop - The use of an aircraft in order to fly over a facility/tower and eject and land on your desired location. The name also has 2 specific subnames: Galdrop - A hotdrop perfomed in group from a Galaxy, and Mozziedrop - used to great effect by re-secure teams due to the speed and individual control a single aircraft provides over a galaxy. Despite the ES fighters presented in, the term will still exist, though it will become faction specific, imo.

[IMMentat]

Let the HA fly, unless they take the ejection seat option they will make a satisfying splat when they get shot down (bail or no bail) and won't have the ability to land and repair like an engineer would.


Agreed, players will still use the ES fighters to drop on targets but they will have to pay for the privelage due to the resource cost.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Yes, the resource cost + timer? will be the other thing. You'll see far fewer ineffective solo droppers (and most of them were) and more intentional, organized air taxi drops of the old style.

[Checowsky]

If its OP enough it'll be sorted in beta, however I think dropping on top will be less of an issue anyways, in PS1 agiles had a warp advantage and lag to keep them alive, there will be a lot less of that in PS2 so dropping in a RExo won't be a huge advantage.

[Zulthus]

If its OP enough it'll be sorted in beta, however I think dropping on top will be less of an issue anyways, in PS1 agiles had a warp advantage and lag to keep them alive, there will be a lot less of that in PS2 so dropping in a RExo won't be a huge advantage.

I'm fairly sure they won't make the netcode as bad as it was in PS1 intentionally, so I don't think that lag/warping could ever be a problem in the first place.

[Stew]

Clerg just confirmed that all classes (not the MAX) can fly aircraft. this open up the ability for engineers to repair their own aircraft and get back in the air quickly like in PS1. however the issue i see is that it allows HA to be able to bail from aircraft and attack with their AV. it also allows HA to get ontop of towers without needing teamwork. i think they should remove HA from the pool of classes that can fly aircraft. Wondering what the PSU community thinks.

Battlefield 3 Epic jet kill - YouTube

You mean something epic like this :D i have no problem with that its required skills

[Purple]

Quick thing to clear up. when i say get onto of towers i mean they will land on the landing pads on the towers.

[ParisTeta]

Funny Video, excellent Music, totaly fitting.

I understand the concern, the question is, is HA really like EXO in PS1? Is the difference between exo and agi as big as in light/medic/eng vs HA?

Next, Vehicle were pretty disposal in PS1, they try that this is not the case in PS2.

That is something Beta test will show, if one of this points or both are answered with yes, we could have a major concern here, if both are answered no, then it won`t proably a problem, Beta will tell.

[SKYeXile]

Funny Video, excellent Music, totaly fitting.

I understand the concern, the question is, is HA really like EXO in PS1? Is the difference between exo and agi as big as in light/medic/eng vs HA?

Next, Vehicle were pretty disposal in PS1, they try that this is not the case in PS2.

That is something Beta test will show, if one of this points or both are answered with yes, we could have a major concern here, if both are answered no, then it won`t proably a problem, Beta will tell.

Heavy assault in PS2 can take pounding with its personal shield. but when its like the only mobile AV class and theres gonna be defenders in MAX's i dont see the problem.

This crap just steams from the terrible players in PS1, they believe that an agile bailing on a tower with HA and 1 deci is overpowered because it somehow has an advantage over rexo and MAX defenders, these people are idiots.

Also to bail as anything else bar light assault you loose a fair bit of offensive ability been able to track targets, not to mention you're wasting resources.

[Xyntech]

My initial gut reaction is that I'd prefer HA not to be able to fly aircraft, but I think that's just PS1 bias. In PS1, Rexo was a straight upgrade over Agile in most situations, especially after the surgile nerfing and rexo buffing. However in PS2, there are clear advantages and disadvantages to using each armor (class), so HA being pilots should be fine.

HA's AV weapons aren't the ultimate AA weapon, so it won't be too big a deal for dogfights, and there are plenty of reasons to take LA or Engi over HA, so I don't think it will be some kind of always used pilot class. It will probably be used for piloting as often as something like Infiltrators.

Agile was pretty much the pilot class in PS1, because post surgile, there was very little good reason to run agile other than the fact that it was the heaviest armor you could drive some vehicles with. I'm glad they added jet packs to make lighter armor actually have a valuable reason to be used in many situations in PS2.

[Landtank]

I won't be Light Assault in an aircraft, I'll either be whatever class fits my mood at the time, but I will pretty much never be playing Light Assault. If my plane is going down I'll figure it out without a jetpack.

[QuantumMechanic]

Only beta will tell.

But I do hold onto the PS1 pilot/driver restriction based on armor type. In PS1 there were basically only two reasons to wear medium armor - be a pilot/driver or be an agile heavy weapons guy.

The class system in PS2 throws that out the window, so we'll see. But I don't like the idea of heavy assault being able to hot drop themselves anywhere. That idea strikes me as very wrong.

[Trafalgar]

IIRC it looked like the AV infantry weapons were far less effective during E3 than the AV vehicle or aircraft weapons... so if a heavy wanted to blow up a vehicle or airplane, he'd be better off using an airplane to do it, and only ejecting if his vehicle were badly damaged.

I really don't see the problem, but that's probably because I'm reserving judgement until I can actually play the beta and get a feel for what is more or less powerful. (Of course, if certifying is slow, e.g. at intended-for-release speed, it might not be feasible to try everything to compare lethality)

(I too would expect mainly engineers to pilot fighters, and possibly the larger planes as well. I could see using a light assault if you lacked ejection seats or the like, but then you lose out on the ability to set down and repair (assuming vehicles don't regenerate HP), unless you have an engineer with you, but he'd probably have the same problem with the lack of ejection seats, so...)

[Xyntech]

I won't be Light Assault in an aircraft, I'll either be whatever class fits my mood at the time, but I will pretty much never be playing Light Assault. If my plane is going down I'll figure it out without a jetpack.

I love flying in games. If I'm not piloting, I'll probably still be playing as a Light Assault most of the time. Looks like a fantastically fun class.

But opinions. To each their own fun.

[TazmamzaT]

Heavy assault in PS2 can take pounding with its personal shield. but when its like the only mobile AV class and theres gonna be defenders in MAX's i dont see the problem.

This crap just steams from the terrible players in PS1, they believe that an agile bailing on a tower with HA and 1 deci is overpowered because it somehow has an advantage over rexo and MAX defenders, these people are idiots.

Also to bail as anything else bar light assault you loose a fair bit of offensive ability been able to track targets, not to mention you're wasting resources.
Dude you don't need to insult groups of people to prove your point.

[Xyntech]

(I too would expect mainly engineers to pilot fighters, and possibly the larger planes as well. I could see using a light assault if you lacked ejection seats or the like, but then you lose out on the ability to set down and repair (assuming vehicles don't regenerate HP), unless you have an engineer with you, but he'd probably have the same problem with the lack of ejection seats, so...)

Whether I fly a fighter as an engineer is going to depend heavily on whether or not aircraft can still repair themselves at air towers like in the first game.

If we still can, then fighters will be fast enough that it will be worth it to retreat to an air tower (or wherever) and let the pad repair me, instead of landing somewhere, getting out and repairing.

I don't plan to ever equip the auto-repair module, and I doubt I will install the bailing module much either, so if I can't repair at an air tower I'll probably take engi any time I don't think I'll need to bail into a fight, and take LA when I think I will need to bail. If there are air repair pads, I'll almost never fly a fighter as an engi. I'll only drive tanks and fly Liberators/Galaxies as an engi.

[Landtank]

Dude you don't need to insult groups of people to prove your point.

Absolutely agree. Thanks for saying that.

[SKYeXile]

Dude you don't need to insult groups of people to prove your point.

Are you taking offence to it?

[Purple]

Heavy assault in PS2 can take pounding with its personal shield. but when its like the only mobile AV class and theres gonna be defenders in MAX's i dont see the problem.

This crap just steams from the terrible players in PS1, they believe that an agile bailing on a tower with HA and 1 deci is overpowered because it somehow has an advantage over rexo and MAX defenders, these people are idiots.

Also to bail as anything else bar light assault you loose a fair bit of offensive ability been able to track targets, not to mention you're wasting resources.

i dont think you understood what i was trying to get at. when i was talking about them bailing with AV i was talking about when the aircraft is almost dead and the pilot bails to try to kill you with AV. its kind of like they get a second chance to fight you as they can dodge you around trees and stuff like that.

[CutterJohn]

HA flying should be fine.

- Ejecting means giving up something beneficial, which means the aircraft will be disadvantaged.

- Aircav travel comes at a hefty premium, so its less likely to be used as a personal taxi all the time, and definitely far less cost effective than a Gal. 12 troops in aircav = 1200 resources. 1 gal = 150 resources. Plus the gal is then reusable.

- Aircav(and indeed, all vehicles) seem far more fragile, so actually getting into position to drop will be more difficult with adequate AA protection.



Its not personally what I'd pick, but I don't think it will be all that bad either.

[SKYeXile]

i dont think you understood what i was trying to get at. when i was talking about them bailing with AV i was talking about when the aircraft is almost dead and the pilot bails to try to kill you with AV. its kind of like they get a second chance to fight you as they can dodge you around trees and stuff like that.

I know what an opivy is and what you said, but im well ware of the AA max "second life" vendetta against pilots. However in your original post you also said:

Clerg just confirmed that all classes (not the MAX) can fly aircraft. this open up the ability for engineers to repair their own aircraft and get back in the air quickly like in PS1. however the issue i see is that it allows HA to be able to bail from aircraft and attack with their AV. it also allows HA to get ontop of towers without needing teamwork. i think they should remove HA from the pool of classes that can fly aircraft. Wondering what the PSU community thinks.

Comprende?

[Vetto]

Hotdrop - The use of an aircraft in order to fly over a facility/tower and eject and land on your desired location. The name also has 2 specific subnames: Galdrop - A hotdrop perfomed in group from a Galaxy, and Mozziedrop - used to great effect by re-secure teams due to the speed and individual control a single aircraft provides over a galaxy. Despite the ES fighters presented in, the term will still exist, though it will become faction specific, imo.

I hate to beat this dead horse again, but won't the current Resource system make these moves 10X less viable then in PS1?

As for the subject... I don't know it's odd for me, I could see HA driving tanks and such... but perhaps not aircraft.

[GreatMazinkaise]

I hate to beat this dead horse again, but won't the current Resource system make these moves 10X less viable then in PS1?

As for the subject... I don't know it's odd for me, I could see HA driving tanks and such... but perhaps not aircraft.

The resource system will make it so that you don't want to do it on a whim. Presumably groups that choose to do a mass air taxi hotdrop will be winning, thus offsetting the resource cost of the ditched aircraft.

[Flaropri]

i dont think you understood what i was trying to get at. when i was talking about them bailing with AV i was talking about when the aircraft is almost dead and the pilot bails to try to kill you with AV. its kind of like they get a second chance to fight you as they can dodge you around trees and stuff like that.

A lot of this depends on the options available. From what I've seen of Alpha, you trade a lot for the privilege to have an ejection system, without which they just become a gooey stain on the ground below or were at that time low to the ground and moving slowly (and thus an easy target in the first place).

To put this another way: In order to take advantage of that, they need to have a less capable aircraft than an LA, and won't have the option to repair anywhere as the Engineers do; heck, they won't even have the option of cloaking to run off and hide that Infiltrators will. These seem like relatively even trades to me. Ultimately, we'll have to see in the Beta to confirm who's views are right on this, and if it is a concern, I'm sure changes will be made.

[Trafalgar]

Here's a question: Does playing a HA or MAX cost more resources, or cost resources at all, compared to playing a LA or another class?

[Flaropri]

Here's a question: Does playing a HA or MAX cost more resources, or cost resources at all, compared to playing a LA or another class?

HA does not cost resources like LA and other basic infantry, they are considering (likely) attaching a resource cost to MAX units.

[Zulthus]

There should be an extra resource cost for a modified cockpit to fit a HA soldier IMO...

[Vetto]

There should be an extra resource cost for a modified cockpit to fit a HA soldier IMO...

Perhaps making that one of the perks aka if you take this perk you can not eject to do hot drops.

[Baneblade]

i dont think you understood what i was trying to get at. when i was talking about them bailing with AV i was talking about when the aircraft is almost dead and the pilot bails to try to kill you with AV. its kind of like they get a second chance to fight you as they can dodge you around trees and stuff like that.

Sort of like the guys who bail out of their aircraft to kill my AA MAX?

How come I can't bail out of my AA MAX to kill them?

[Madlaps]

Who says the resource system isn't going to get flooded and you'll be able to spam the shit out of stuff?

[Sirisian]

Who says the resource system isn't going to get flooded and you'll be able to spam the shit out of stuff?
Beta. :rolleyes:

[PhoenixDog]

Clerg just confirmed that all classes (not the MAX) can fly aircraft. this open up the ability for engineers to repair their own aircraft and get back in the air quickly like in PS1. however the issue i see is that it allows HA to be able to bail from aircraft and attack with their AV. it also allows HA to get ontop of towers without needing teamwork. i think they should remove HA from the pool of classes that can fly aircraft. Wondering what the PSU community thinks.

That's fine. More wasted resources for the enemy so that when push comes to shove they can't get the vehicles they need.

[PhoenixDog]

Who says the resource system isn't going to get flooded and you'll be able to spam the shit out of stuff?

SoE has said countless times that is why they put the system in to begin with. You'll be unable to just spam vehicles for everyone to use...I'm sure it will be laxxed enough for people to get a few vehicles in a row if shit happens...But strict enough to not abuse it..

[SKYeXile]

Beta. :rolleyes:

resources are also used to purchase upgrades and stuff somebody that pays a sub or does not use resources to buy weapons upgrades because they're paying SC for them will probably have a multitude of resources. This is how F2P rolls.

[Blackwolf]

I'm sure there are already 20 pages of arguments for and against this but, whatever.

I have to agree, it's not a good idea to have HA in aircraft. Trouble is, limit the classes that can fly and you limit potential play styles. The fact that you have to cert the ability to bail from your vehicle should keep bailures to a minimum. And the increase in scale from PS1 means bailures will have more enemies to contend with whenever they drop on any target. Also resources will help prevent wasted vehicles.

Since bailbo's are my only real concern about HA in pilot seats, I'd say I have little room to argue against it. Besides, I think most people will find that it's just easier and better to keep their butts in their seats no matter how dicey it gets in the air and dropping on the base for last minute heroics just won't be worth it.

[Vetto]

resources are also used to purchase upgrades and stuff somebody that pays a sub or does not use resources to buy weapons upgrades because they're paying SC for them will probably have a multitude of resources. This is how F2P rolls.

Ok I could be miss reading so fully admit this but you said "pays for a sub?" Like a account that get extra benefits for paying? Or Buying booster, or did I just misread.

[SgtExo]

I think that by paying for a sub they said you would collect resources faster.

[BigBossMonkey]

Someone wants to spend a hundred resources to get ontop of a tower, for the chance to maybe get a few kills?

Sounds fine to me.

They won't be a one man army like now; they won't be able to repair themselves, they won't be able to heal themselves, they won't be advanced hackers.

They'll just be a single guy, in a tower, with a gun.

And considering how much more open the designs are this time around, it will likely just get them killed.

If you intend to go kill whoring, I think LA will be the way to do it.

[Vetto]

I think that by paying for a sub they said you would collect resources faster.

Was not aware they were doing that.

[Blackwolf]

I think that by paying for a sub they said you would collect resources faster.

Also offline. I believe I heard something somewhere sometime that payers would collect resources while offline. Might just be station cash though, as I believe resource boosts are something available in the cash shop.

[Sirisian]

resources are also used to purchase upgrades and stuff somebody that pays a sub or does not use resources to buy weapons upgrades because they're paying SC for them will probably have a multitude of resources. This is how F2P rolls.
Wrong kind of resources. There's multiple resources and the personal resources is separate from the ones used to purchase new weapons it looks like.

[Vetto]

Also offline. I believe I heard something somewhere sometime that payers would collect resources while offline. Might just be station cash though, as I believe resource boosts are something available in the cash shop.

See, I was under the idea that how it was for everyone, that it thrive off of Micro trans only, Booster and Cosmetics etc, No kind of monthly pay.

[Malorn]

I don't think you have to worry about HA flying. All the pilots will be Light Assault so they can use the jetpack as a safe bailing mechanism. That way they don't need to take that upgrade on their aircraft and can get flares or some other utility upgrade.

[SKYeXile]

I think that by paying for a sub they said you would collect resources faster.

yes, and cert points too.

Also offline. I believe I heard something somewhere sometime that payers would collect resources while offline. Might just be station cash though, as I believe resource boosts are something available in the cash shop.

yea im not sure whether there is still a sun, but resource and XP boots are certainly avalible.

Wrong kind of resources. There's multiple resources and the personal resources is separate from the ones used to purchase new weapons it looks like.

Thats true, but either way, they have to make it so F2P users can still acquire vehicles a reasonable amount of time, users paying would then have a higher resource gain so they should be able to pull them more often.

[Otleaz]

I don't think you have to worry about HA flying. All the pilots will be Light Assault so they can use the jetpack as a safe bailing mechanism. That way they don't need to take that upgrade on their aircraft and can get flares or some other utility upgrade.

Oh yeah? Well as a HA you don't need to worry about that useless "weapon" mechanism since you can just jump out and shoot your rockets. That leaves even MORE room for new stuff since you are replacing TWO slots.

[ODonnell]

Well if this is the case you can kiss transports and gal drops goodbye. No point of using a ground transport sense they are more exposed and don't have as much room to manuver and must navigate terrain. Why use a gal and bunch all your troops up into 1 juicy target. Even with vehicles having a cost this is straight r e tarded.

[Arcticus]

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding but, even without taking resource cost into account, doesn't an LA pilot beat the HA AV or AA on both the air AND the ground... 1 vs 1?

In the air, the LA pilot has an additional slot since an ejection seat is not needed.

Assuming the HA ejects and lands safely on the rooftop, even if he does AA damage on the LA's plane, causing the LA to bail, the LA is not receiving AI on the way down, then assuming he misses the roof, he jets up to the rooftop and takes down the HA.

Am I wrong? Isn't an HA on a rooftop with a flyswatter going to loose against an LA that can be bopping up and down?

I'm not expecting battles to be 1 vs 1; all I'm saying is that an HA pilot expecting to become a rooftop AA can be countered even by the class that he's supposedly OPed against.

I need to know if I'm wrong as I might have misconceptions about the LA class.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Oh yeah? Well as a HA you don't need to worry about that useless "weapon" mechanism since you can just jump out and shoot your rockets. That leaves even MORE room for new stuff since you are replacing TWO slots.

The default launcher that the HAs are using now is useless against an aircraft with flares... not really sure how they're gaining that much on the LA in this instance.

[Purple]

See, I was under the idea that how it was for everyone, that it thrive off of Micro trans only, Booster and Cosmetics etc, No kind of monthly pay.

everyone gets XP offline i think boosters wil effect the ammount but no resources offline as far as i know.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Please correct me if I'm misunderstanding but, even without taking resource cost into account, doesn't an LA pilot beat the HA AV or AA on both the air AND the ground... 1 vs 1?

In the air, the LA pilot has an additional slot since an ejection seat is not needed.

Assuming the HA ejects and lands safely on the rooftop, even if he does AA damage on the LA's plane, causing the LA to bail, the LA is not receiving AI on the way down, then assuming he misses the roof, he jets up to the rooftop and takes down the HA.

Am I wrong? Isn't an HA on a rooftop with a flyswatter going to loose against an LA that can be bopping up and down?

I'm not expecting battles to be 1 vs 1; all I'm saying is that an HA pilot expecting to become a rooftop AA can be countered even by the class that he's supposedly OPed against.

I need to know if I'm wrong as I might have misconceptions about the LA class.

The heavy assault still has his shield and rifle presumably (or Heavy Assault weapon, in which case he's not using a launcher to take down an aircraft), so assuming he's got good enough aim to keep up with the jumpjetting, then he may have the edge against a light assault character.

It really depends on how important ADS mechanics to actually hitting anything at mid-close range.

[Khrakhan]

Why do people keep discussing HA's as if they will regularly be bailing out of a plane to use their own rockets?

First off, it's essentially suicide unless they have the ES (ejection seat); even then it's a waste unless the plane was actually about to explode.

Why would you not remain in your plane and use IT'S rockets to attack, seems like a very lame and unimpressive tactic to bail and use rocket launcher if you ask me.

[Malorn]

Oh yeah? Well as a HA you don't need to worry about that useless "weapon" mechanism since you can just jump out and shoot your rockets. That leaves even MORE room for new stuff since you are replacing TWO slots.

That makes zero sense.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Why do people keep discussing HA's as if they will regularly be bailing out of a plane to use their own rockets?

First off, it's essentially suicide unless they have the ES (ejection seat); even then it's a waste unless the plane was actually about to explode.

Why would you not remain in your plane and use IT'S rockets to attack, seems like a very lame and unimpressive tactic to bail and use rocket launcher if you ask me.

Not sure really; Anti-Air MAX users might have a legitimate beef, but I don't imagine too many air cav whores got shot down by ES AV or Decis last time around.

[exLupo]

With the class limitations removing the PS1 supersoldier problem and resource caps making throw-away aircraft less appealing, I'm willing to give this a chance. My primary concern, at this point, is whether or not HA in personal transport aircraft will invalidate other forms of group transport as it did for AgileHA in PS1.

The Deli and Bang Bus had lots of problems on their own but the Mossie was probably the biggest thing standing between them and relevance. It's a concern.

[Arcticus]

It really depends on how important ADS mechanics to actually hitting anything at mid-close range.

What are ADS mechanics? I'm not familiar with the acronym.

[GreatMazinkaise]

What are ADS mechanics? I'm not familiar with the acronym.

Aim Down Sights or Iron Sights (though many of them are not in fact proper iron sights). The cumbersome mechanism present in nearly all modern shooters that blocks your view, slows you down to a crawl, and simultaneously makes all shooting beyond point blank range effectively "spray and pray".

Even if you're not jetting around like in Tribes, a LA player will be extremely difficult to hit if you've got to ADS at short-medium engagement ranges.

[SKYeXile]

everyone gets XP offline i think boosters wil effect the ammount but no resources offline as far as i know.

its cert points people get offline and i believe there is a quote somewhere that said that people may get resources offline if they pay.

SOE have an optional sub in every one of their F2P games, along with most other F2P games. i cant see them not having one.

[Blackwolf]

Oh yeah? Well as a HA you don't need to worry about that useless "weapon" mechanism since you can just jump out and shoot your rockets. That leaves even MORE room for new stuff since you are replacing TWO slots.

What fantasy land are you living in?

HA AA will likely be ineffective against enemy aircraft if they have flares. And it's not going to keep your ass from dying when you hit the ground.

As Malorn said, it's probably a lot more useful to gear up in Light Assault for bailing so you can equip your aircraft with flares (which will improve your survivability by a LOT), so that even if you get shot to hell, you still have a viable escape that won't decorate the ground with your brains.

Plus I'm not even sure you can fire weapons while bailing from aircraft. My memory of all the jumpers I've seen is 3rd person side view showing the jumper falling downward side by side with the aircraft more or less.

[DviddLeff]

In my opinion there should be a Pilot class that allows you to fly or drive enclosed vehicles.

Otherwise you will see vehicles used as disposable insertion vehicles - although their cost may help to prevent this.

[GreatMazinkaise]

In my opinion there should be a Pilot class that allows you to fly or drive enclosed vehicles.

Otherwise you will see vehicles used as disposable insertion vehicles - although their cost may help to prevent this.

And what is wrong with using them as disposable insertion vehicles?

[Lonehunter]

I'm not sure keeping HA out of aircraft is the best answer, my only gripe is bailing with some AV in your hands. You shouldn't be able to take down the guy that just murdered your aircraft before you even hit the ground in my opinion

And what is wrong with using them as disposable insertion vehicles?

Because it removes their value. Their resource cost becomes a "taxi" cost, it's just what you pay to get from A to B. Then you have to balance that cost with the actual valued and used aircraft.

If you want to use them that way you can, but I'm pretty sure a dev has said they don't like it . It probly won't be very cost efficient, they've said the Flash will be cheap and almost disposable. There's also going to be required research/certifications to even be able to bail, plus it could also take up a perk slot. So there will be sacrifice, but you can do what ever you want.

[GreatMazinkaise]

If you want to use them that way you can, but I'm pretty sure a dev has said they don't like it . It probly won't be very cost efficient, they've said the Flash will be cheap and almost disposable. There's also going to be required research/certifications to even be able to bail, plus it could also take up a perk slot. So there will be sacrifice, but you can do what ever you want.

They don't necessarily have to be cost efficient; you're using grouped air taxis because they're better for fast small group work than Galaxies... presuming the work you're doing succeeds, they can pay for themselves.

The random zergling who wants to get to the top of the tower will probably opt for LA instead.

[TeaLeaf]

Thats true, but either way, they have to make it so F2P users can still acquire vehicles a reasonable amount of time, users paying would then have a higher resource gain so they should be able to pull them more often.

I'm pretty sure the boosters only count to the resources used for unlocks and certs. So everyone will be on an equal playing field in regards to vehicle supplies. Do you have an actual source for this?

[GreatMazinkaise]

I'm pretty sure the boosters only count to the resources used for unlocks and certs. So everyone will be on an equal playing field in regards to vehicle supplies. Do you have an actual source for this?

One of the Facebook app prizes is a Resource Booster implant... we don't know exactly what it does, but they're sure as hell not going to sell you something that'll increase the amount of in-game currency you earn to spend at the cash shop. So most likely the resource booster in some way diminishes or breaks the resource denial metagame.

[SKYeXile]

One of the Facebook app prizes is a Resource Booster implant... we don't know exactly what it does, but they're sure as hell not going to sell you something that'll increase the amount of in-game currency you earn to spend at the cash shop. So most likely the resource booster in some way diminishes or breaks the resource denial metagame.

i don't see why they wouldn't sell something like that. some people have some sort of moral against buying items directly from the cash shop, paying for a sub or booster is a way to get money from these people, they feel more like they're earning it that way still.

[GuyFawkes]

I'm pretty sure the boosters only count to the resources used for unlocks and certs. So everyone will be on an equal playing field in regards to vehicle supplies. Do you have an actual source for this?

I think you are overlooking the potential the marketing team sees for this . An implant that gives you an extra 10% of resources gained , suddenly becomes a necessity and everyone would buy it from the sc . Fair or unfair is irrelevant , its an automatic $5 from every player in the game from the get go .

[GreatMazinkaise]

HA need to fly or the player base will start to favor the light assault class.

There is just too much fun stuff going on with the light assault class (which I include to be the jet pack LAs, Engys, Medics, Infils). That the HA needs this boost of being able to to fly the Scythe, Mossie, Reaver.

To an extent... I still predict that HA will be the most popular class for rushing bases (other than MAXs) because they can actually deal with MAX suits. Actual HA weapons (and shields) should make them better duelists than any other class.

[Immigrant]

If you ask me they should've made a separate pilot/(gunner) class (with exception that engineer and medics can be the gunners too). All the other classes combat orientated infantry classes (LA, HA and Infs) should only be able to drive the quads or be transported by Galaxies and Sunderers.

Guys wishing to first drive a vehicle then switch to infantry combat class should use terminals in bases to change their class.

[SergeantNubins]

Light assault have jump packs, so they dont need the ejector seat to be able to bail safely, any other class will - so the best pilots will be light assault ebcause they dont have to have one of their upgrades dedicated to allowing them to escape when shot down. That combined with the fact vehicles are not throw away things anymore because of resource use and the general different way that classes play means this really shouldn't be an issue.

[Coreldan]

I'm personally against anything bigger than light armor piloting any vehicles, except ATV/buggy.

[Khrakhan]

If you ask me they should've made a separate pilot/(gunner) class (with exception that engineer and medics can be the gunners too). All the other classes combat orientated infantry classes (LA, HA and Infs) should only be able to drive the quads or be transported by Galaxies and Sunderers.

Guys wishing to first drive a vehicle then switch to infantry combat class should use terminals in bases to change their class.

Way too many restrictions, not to mention slow down the flow of battle if players are always having to switch classes just to drive something.

People make too big a deal out of such minor issues....

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Can we get one thread without blaming the Battlefield players? Please?

No.

[Khrakhan]

Light assault have jump packs, so they dont need the ejector seat to be able to bail safely, any other class will - so the best pilots will be light assault ebcause they dont have to have one of their upgrades dedicated to allowing them to escape when shot down. That combined with the fact vehicles are not throw away things anymore because of resource use and the general different way that classes play means this really shouldn't be an issue.

The best pilots have no intention of bailing, so engineer is more likely to be the class of choice. And they wont even pick the ejection seat and will still be using the flares instead. When damaged and able, they will land and repair....if unable to safely land and are about to be shot down, they will try ot get as low to the ground as possible and bail, hoping to survive the fall.

[Coreldan]

I think you are overlooking the potential the marketing team sees for this . An implant that gives you an extra 10% of resources gained , suddenly becomes a necessity and everyone would buy it from the sc . Fair or unfair is irrelevant , its an automatic $5 from every player in the game from the get go .

Except no matter how necessary the community would see it, not even half of a F2P playerbase will have it.

[SKYeXile]

The best pilots have no intention of bailing, so engineer is more likely to be the class of choice. And they wont even pick the ejection seat and will still be using the flares instead. When damaged and able, they will land and repair....if unable to safely land and are about to be shot down, they will try ot get as low to the ground as possible and bail, hoping to survive the fall.

i would be hoping repair pads are back in.

[SergeantNubins]

The best pilots have no intention of bailing, so engineer is more likely to be the class of choice. And they wont even pick the ejection seat and will still be using the flares instead. When damaged and able, they will land and repair....if unable to safely land and are about to be shot down, they will try ot get as low to the ground as possible and bail, hoping to survive the fall.

Yea, which seems good to me. They probably wont survive the fall, judging from the e3 stuff, most people died as, unlike in ps1, without the ejector seat, when you leave your aircraft, the physics still apply. When people jumped out mid air, they carried on moving at 200 mph and slammed into something and squished.

But there is still no balance issue or problem with allowing different armour types to fly. A dedicated pilot may go engy and forego an ejector seat and accept that when they get shot down, its curtains for them - although they will have better than average survivabiity due to using flares isntead of ejector seat etc. Someone may decided to use a fighter as an insertion method for rexo.. if they want to burn their resources that way, then so be it. Others wil use light assault for the compromise of not being able to repair their fighter if they get damaged, but having the extra chance to surive of a jetpack. If you do get shot down in the midde of nowhere, you will probably regret having spent the points on the ejector seat anyway :)

[thegreekboy]

That really doesn't make sense... why? There should be a dedicated pilot class for aircraft, or at least Light Assault IMO. Especially if the aircraft has a bailing mechanism, it'll be a worse scenario than in PS1. I'd prefer agiles with jackhammers bailing compared to Rexo's with much larger guns. Even in ground vehicles, the driver shouldn't be able to use anything bigger than LA unless it's an open top vehicle.


Is it just another way to make the BF crowd feel at home?

*ehrm*

I know I'm relatively new here, but what exactly is wrong with the "BF Crowd"

[FuzzyandBlue]

Its seems like a lot of people here think that the HA is going to be way over powered. From the E3 footage a HA goes down pretty quickly when in a firefight. It looked like they could take 1-2 more shots than a LA, 3-4 if they used their over shield. Beyond that the rockets are not a one hit kill to aircraft. Also a boosting aircraft can outrun the rocket.

The only time I see a HA bailing out of his aircraft and destroying the guy that shot him down is if the guy that shot him down comes back to get the kill and eats a rocket to the face. In which case I have no problem with that.

[TheInferno]

i would be hoping repair pads are back in.

I don't know if they're out, I thought the pads at the air towers would work as repair pads. No reason we can't have both and the Engineer can just set down anywhere and repair.

*ehrm*

I know I'm relatively new here, but what exactly is wrong with the "BF Crowd"

Some of the vets blame every change that makes the game more like Battlefield or that makes the game more "accessible" as catering to the inferior people known as "Battlefield players", who never had the glorious life-changing experience of playing Planetside, and who obviously do not know anything about what Planetside 2 should be like. Not all the vets, not even most, but some.

It's basically the forums version of "Them Irish are stealing our jobs!" or what have you. I can't blame them for it, though, as much as I dislike it. Considering they stuck around this long, they have a huge attachment to Planetside (which from what I saw of it was a game I wish I had played myself) and the way some people come in and say "We should throw in win conditions and make it Call of Battlefield Online" (not many, mind you, but some people do go really ridiculous in saying how it should be exactly like other AAA shooters). It's just it has a bad tendency to overflow onto anyone who says things they honestly think would improve Planetside 2 that people think "dumbs down" the game.

No.

Ah, well. I'll get used to it, I guess. At least I can look forward to the day we're all Planetside 2 players, eh?

[Otleaz]

I know I'm relatively new here, but what exactly is wrong with the "BF Crowd"

BF players are the same as MW players around here. Really, the only ones who think they are different are BF and MW players. They are both REALLY casual games with gimmicky gameplay and mechanics.

[Hmr85]

I completely disagree with HA being able to pilot aircraft. I thought the whole point this go around was to cut down on the mossie drop bs we saw in ps1 and now we want to give them Rexo?? I can't wait to see a whole platoon of HA Rexo's bail out onto a tower or onto a objective. It's going to be redicoulosly op. Trust me when I say people will spec into the eject mechanism for the reaver,mossy or scythe just to do this. Way to op of a ability to have HA as pilots imo. They need to keep it to agile.

You need to ask yourself what's the point in even having the galaxy as a troop transport if you are going to allow this..

[johnflenaly]

I'd much rather see some sort of Pilot/driver class. Like LA with carbines minus the jetpack and ammo. These would be required for all Driver/Pilot/Gunner slots with exception of the ATV, and the guns on transports: Sunderer or Galaxy. Also no friggin way on self repair. Let them use repair pads or actually team work and meet up with an engineer out in the boonies.

[Heaven]

The way I see it is most players will be light assault when using aircraft anyways, as they have the option to use their jet packs to soften thier landing when bailing.

And if a HA assault player is flying aircraft and bails they are pretty much dead meat anyways when they get damage from hitting the ground.

[SergeantNubins]

I completely disagree with HA being able to pilot aircraft. I thought the whole point this go around was to cut down on the mossie drop bs we saw in ps1 and now we want to give them Rexo?? I can't wait to see a whole platoon of HA Rexo's bail out onto a tower or onto a objective. It's going to be redicoulosly op. Trust me when I say people will spec into the eject mechanism for the reaver,mossy or scythe just to do this. Way to op of a ability to have HA as pilots imo. They need to keep it to agile.

You need to ask yourself what's the point in even having the galaxy as a troop transport if you are going to allow this..



Did you watch any of the E3 streams? The cost of wasting a reaver/mossy/scythe is what will stop that happening all the time. It wont stop it happening alltogether, but it will stop it being a regular normal thing to do. A lot of the time people had run outof resources when playing that E3 stream and were having to spend time as grunts or max's in order to restore their resource balance, and the commentators even said they were amazed because the devs had loaded up each account with a ton of resources. light assault and engineers seemed a lot more pupular on the ground and the rexo av weapons seemed pretty poop so you are worried over nothing at the moment. PS2 is not the same game as PS1, the mechanics and mentality of play is completely different.

[Hmr85]

Your missing the point. I'm not worried about it happening all the time or the cost of resources. It will happen in clutch situations. HA should not ever be able to fly aircraft. Will see how many of you continue to like HA being pilots when I drop 2 platoons worth of HA ontop of your tower or objective.

[Xyntech]

Your missing the point. I'm not worried about it happening all the time or the cost of resources. It will happen in clutch situations. HA should not ever be able to fly aircraft. Will see how many of you continue to like HA being pilots when I drop 2 platoons worth of HA ontop of your tower or objective.

I personally never had a problem with Agiles dropping with a HA gun. The only issue I had with HA guns were that they were such a default gun in most situations due to most important battles being very close quarters in the first Planetside.

The only issue I ever had was the self sustainability of a lone player in Planetside. Even with BR20, but especially after BR40, any player could be running around with all of the major support roles. I appreciate the idea of classes dividing up some of these valuable support roles so that you need a few specialized people if you want to fill every role.

The only really good reason to prevent Rexo from piloting in PS1 was that Rexo was a pure upgrade from Agile in almost every way. More ammo, more guns, more armor... slightly less speed (not a problem after the surgile nerf/rexo buff).

In PS2, there are clear advantages and disadvantages to playing as LA or HA, just in ordinary infantry fighting. So there isn't any need to buff up Agile (lighter armors like LA in PS2) just to make it have some value compared to Rexo (HA).

So why not have HA be able to fly? Bailing has been mitigated through other means, so Galaxies should still prove valuable. Due to class tradeoffs, HA won't be at a clear advantage over LA in a bailing situation.

I think that it's pretty clear that balance is not a concern in this matter anymore in PS2, so what is the concern?

This is not PS1 and we are not dealing with PS1 problems.

[Hmr85]

I personally never had a problem with Agiles dropping with a HA gun. The only issue I had with HA guns were that they were such a default gun in most situations due to most important battles being very close quarters in the first Planetside.

The only issue I ever had was the self sustainability of a lone player in Planetside. Even with BR20, but especially after BR40, any player could be running around with all of the major support roles. I appreciate the idea of classes dividing up some of these valuable support roles so that you need a few specialized people if you want to fill every role.

The only really good reason to prevent Rexo from piloting in PS1 was that Rexo was a pure upgrade from Agile in almost every way. More ammo, more guns, more armor... slightly less speed (not a problem after the surgile nerf/rexo buff).

In PS2, there are clear advantages and disadvantages to playing as LA or HA, just in ordinary infantry fighting. So there isn't any need to buff up Agile (lighter armors like LA in PS2) just to make it have some value compared to Rexo (HA).

So why not have HA be able to fly? Bailing has been mitigated through other means, so Galaxies should still prove valuable. Due to class tradeoffs, HA won't be at a clear advantage over LA in a bailing situation.

I think that it's pretty clear that balance is not a concern in this matter anymore in PS2, so what is the concern?

This is not PS1 and we are not dealing with PS1 problems.

True, but at the moment this is going to be one of those things will have to wait in see in beta. Maybe I was being a tad close minded. But until we know the rate at which will get resources and such or the actual durability of the HA class. All I can really do is make assumptions atm.

[SergeantNubins]

Your missing the point. I'm not worried about it happening all the time or the cost of resources. It will happen in clutch situations. HA should not ever be able to fly aircraft. Will see how many of you continue to like HA being pilots when I drop 2 platoons worth of HA ontop of your tower or objective.

So you are going to ask 60 people to buy and then throw away their aircraft, just so you can drop rexos? If you're trying to get as much firepower on tehg round as possible in a sigle location, wouldnt you be better off taking 6 galaxy's and dropping 48 rexos and 12 maxes instead? Esecially as they wont all have to cert aircraft with ejection seats in order to arrive at that destination in a non dead/half dead manner.

[Hmr85]

If time was of the essence and the close facility only allowed me to pull Reavers. Then yes, I would ask them to pull them. Because not all of us are worried about resources that from what I have seen don't appear to be that hard to get back. Will have to wait till beta to test this one out.

[SergeantNubins]

If time was of the essence and the close facility only allowed me to pull Reavers. Then yes, I would ask them to pull them. Because not all of us are worried about resources that from what I have seen don't appear to be that hard to get back. Will have to wait till beta to test this one out.

Yea and thats fine, but its not going to be as effective as using the galaxy's. And I suspect it will take much much longer to pull 60 reavers than 6 galaxies. The point is that what you are suggesting isnt OP, because there appear to be better ways of doing it.

[brinkdadrink]

Main reasons I dont mind:

- You can not bail from an aircraft like in PS1 - you will continue at same speed and will die.
- The ejector seat you can add might limit to only light armour

- to get out you have to land which takes time and makes you a target so its unlikely you are going to do it in the middle of combat.

- Planes now cost resources and a timer so they will not be wildly wasted like they were in PS1

The only time HA matters when flying is when they get out and because of the reasons listed I do not think it will affect game play all that much.

[brinkdadrink]

If time was of the essence and the close facility only allowed me to pull Reavers. Then yes, I would ask them to pull them. Because not all of us are worried about resources that from what I have seen don't appear to be that hard to get back. Will have to wait till beta to test this one out.

What we saw was special for E3 where they loaded them up with resources. Even with that over the 3 days they ran out of resources so I do not think that resources are that easy to get.

Beta will tell us truly but I think resources will have a huge effect on vehicles and the amount of them. So in your case I would rather spend less resources on galaxy's and bring MAX suits with me than try and take time to pull 60 reavers all of which have to land on a tiny platform because you cant just bail from them any more. It would be a nightmare to just land them all at the tower.

[Baron]

My .02 on why I think HA should not be able to pilot aircraft.

On Certifications:
Since in PS2 you will eventually be able to get every single certification, I do not think this is a very strong argument on why HA flying is not an issue. Those who dedicate themselves for kill-whoring will just cert the bailing mechanic as soon as possible.

On Resources:
Since we don't really know how resources are balanced this is mostly speculation. However at some point during the invasion, your resources will cross a threshold that makes using personal aircraft as a taxi not an issue.

Invasion time = 0 (resource limited, not ideal for ES plane taxis ...however that doesn't mean that individuals can't be a dick and just do it anyway for their personal K: D )

Invasion time = 0+x (resource rich, vehicles and side grades barely make a dent in your continental pool so bail away)

On ES Jet Options:
If you are just using your aircraft to after-burn to a location and then bail, I don't see the argument of losing your flares as very strong either. You won't be in the air long enough to using defensive air tactics.


Like many vets, I'm very familiar with the Agile+HA bailing tactics. Using air cav as personal taxis did two things in my mind:

1) reduced the value of large transportation vehicles. Why get a galaxy that is a large and slow target when everyone in your squad can just pull a mossie and bail?

2) annoying as all hell when you win a dog fight just to have the enemy bail and then lock-on with their ES AV weapon as they are falling.

[super pretendo]

There should be disadvantages to it

[Traak]

I think pilots should have a pistol, and that's it. It can be a heavy pistol. If they want more weapons, they can put them on their plane.

Having pilots heavily armed reminds me of being able to pop out of your MAX armor as a cloaker with a sniper rifle and run off if it gets too low on HP.

[Hmr85]

I'll have to go back and watch the videos. But I don't recall the resource system working (gathering resources) from my understanding each pc was set with a set amount of resources for the day and that was it. Like I said I'll have to go watch the video.

In regards to the ejection seat, if they limit it to LA / agile armor then yes I would be fine with HA piloting aircraft. As you pretty much just took away their ability to hot drop on objectives.

As far as the galaxy's yes, if we where standing near a facility that allowed me to pull them the yes It would be more efficent. I am fully aware of that. I'm BS'ing scenarios here that could happen. It could be a squad or a platoon it doesn't matter to me. My point was it shouldn't be allowed. Beta will clairfy how effective it is or if it should even be allowed. Only game time will clear this up.

[Xyntech]

It seems like people are more concerned about bailing than HA being able to pilot.

Mind you, I'm coming from a perspective that thought bailing rapid responders were a good and valid part of the game. At the same time, I thought that there wasn't enough done in the first game to make Galaxies be a superior alternative for non rapid responders (at least after the BR cap started going up), so I certainly want to see efforts made to make sure that the Galaxy stays the first choice for most drops. It has to be a better choice for the average player than either pulling a fighter, or squad spawning.

I think they have already proven that they are heading in a direction to make Galaxy drops a viable first choice, so I'm not too worried. If Galaxies need to be made even more appealing, I'm confident that they will make the necessary changes.

But if this is purely a debate about HA being able to fly or not, not about the merits and downsides of bailing, then this is purely a discussion about how well balanced HA is versus other pilot capable classes. In the first game, the answer would be that Rexo was terribly imbalanced against Agile (post buffs/nerfs). In PS2, all classes will be balanced against each other, having their own strengths and weaknesses.

In the MAXes case, it trades off being able to drive anything or hack anything for having crazy firepower and armor. Beyond this, the other classes should all be fine as pilots.

[Xyntech]

If a HA can bail and second-life kill you like PS1, that would suck. But I didn't see any of that happening in E3 footage. If it starts to happen in Beta, then oy vey! I think there will be lots of squealing on forums.

In the TB footage and E3 footage, not only did we see HA AV lockon weapons being used mostly like the Striker was in PS1 (to scare aircraft away, not outright destroy them uness the pilot was stupid), but we also saw Smedly use a Reavers rocket spam to take out Total Biscuit while TB actively tried to shoot him down.

I totally agree that if the HA AV gun gets buffed and starts being the defacto "bail for a second chance at the kill" class, there will probably be bitching, but consider the following:

The HA will have to cert in bailing, which means no flares. They are pretty much asking to get shot down.

Meanwhile, the LA can cert in flares, which not only may help them win the initial fight, but will also help keep them safe from the bailing noob.

So essentially, HA will probably get most of it's piloting use from noobs, who will either quickly learn that it's not that useful, or will keep being noobs and not do much harm in the process.

Also, bailing isn't as big a blow to the integrity of a dogfight as it was in PS1. In PS1, you got no kill credit if the pilot bailed, but in PS2, you get a vehicle kill credit no matter whether the pilot is in the craft at the time or not, as well as getting experience from destroying the vehicle. I don't think we've seen for sure one way or another, but for all we know, a pilot may get extra experience for going back and killing a bailed pilot versus killing the pilot while they are still in the aircraft.

Aircraft seem to be able to die a lot more suddenly now as well, so unless you bail while still having like a third of your health left, your odds of getting out before being destroyed probably won't be so good.

[Arcticus]

Does anyone else find the concept of 20 airplanes with 20 HA bailing out underwhelming? Would they not be spread out by either distance or time?


If they all bail at once, they won't be clustered. From what I saw in the E3 footage, they certain won't all make it to the same rooftop.

Seems that, if they want to land on the same rooftop, they're bailing out 2 or 3 at a time over said building. Guess I should check the videos for the maneuverability of those ejection seats.

[BorisBlade]

Honestly its not as big of a deal as with ps1 because sadly in ps2 you die near instantly from anything. Whether its a bb gun or a mini chain gun, you die in less than a second. So whether you die in 0.5 or 0.6 seconds because you have a guy with HA or not on you is really meaningless. Same with the armor, HA still dies in less than a second. Sadly thats the downside of fast TTK, very little actual or even near zero meaningful differences between weapons/armor/shields etc.

As cool as specializing and what not would be, they will only do things that give the appearance of it. Actual specialization isnt gonna happen in their quest to appeal to a wide audience for a quick buck and the short attention span crowd.

For the record, I wish it were limited to agile. With an option for a pilot suit that was armored like a cloaker with only a pistol but compesated with special benefits for pilots. Ability to bail, or enhanced armor/radar/speed or whatever.

[Trafalgar]

Aim Down Sights or Iron Sights (though many of them are not in fact proper iron sights). The cumbersome mechanism present in nearly all modern shooters that blocks your view, slows you down to a crawl, and simultaneously makes all shooting beyond point blank range effectively "spray and pray".


"Nearly all" must not include Halo 3, Halo Reach, etc, as they do not use ADS (though you can scope in on the few weapons that have a scope, which effectively just zooms in so you can shoot things farther away). Of course, you're playing enhanced supersoldiers (in the case of spartans) in power armor which provides further augmentation and visual cues showing where you are aiming, so your character probably doesn't NEED to use sights to aim at your enemies accurately, and Sangheili also have advanced armor which likely shows them where they are aiming and such.

I think that by paying for a sub they said you would collect resources faster.

Paying for a sub to get more resources would be pay to win, if you ask me.

[GreatMazinkaise]

"Nearly all" must not include Halo 3, Halo Reach, etc, as they do not use ADS (though you can scope in on the few weapons that have a scope, which effectively just zooms in so you can shoot things farther away). Of course, you're playing enhanced supersoldiers (in the case of spartans) in power armor which provides further augmentation and visual cues showing where you are aiming, so your character probably doesn't NEED to use sights to aim at your enemies accurately, and Sangheili also have advanced armor which likely shows them where they are aiming and such.

That would be pay to win, if you ask me.

Halo would be a much better influence on the game than the "all ADS, all the time" that shows up in the generic modern shooter franchises.

[SergeantNubins]

"Nearly all" must not include Halo 3, Halo Reach, etc, as they do not use ADS (though you can scope in on the few weapons that have a scope, which effectively just zooms in so you can shoot things farther away). Of course, you're playing enhanced supersoldiers (in the case of spartans) in power armor which provides further augmentation and visual cues showing where you are aiming, so your character probably doesn't NEED to use sights to aim at your enemies accurately, and Sangheili also have advanced armor which likely shows them where they are aiming and such.



Paying for a sub to get more resources would be pay to win, if you ask me.

I personally havent read anything aobut paying to collect resources faster. They have said you can pay to get xp faster (like in tribes ascend) and i think they have hinted that you might be able to buy resources outright, but not to collect them quicker. But as I said, ive not seen them say this anywhere.

This is the nature of f2p - buying resources is not paying to win, its paying to give you access to the tools you want to use when you want to use them, rather than waiting to earn them manually. Its perfectly reasoanble here. Someone has to pay for this game, so there has to be something worthwhile buying that will appeak to a significant number of the playerbase, you can't seriously expect to have people who pay get nothing worthwhile in return, even if it is just the ability to ensure you dont run out of resources.

[GreatMazinkaise]

I personally havent read anything aobut paying to collect resources faster. They have said you can pay to get xp faster (like in tribes ascend) and i think they have hinted that you might be able to buy resources outright, but not to collect them quicker. But as I said, ive not seen them say this anywhere.

This is the nature of f2p - buying resources is not paying to win, its paying to give you access to the tools you want to use when you want to use them, rather than waiting to earn them manually. Its perfectly reasoanble here. Someone has to pay for this game, so there has to be something worthwhile buying that will appeak to a significant number of the playerbase, you can't seriously expect to have people who pay get nothing worthwhile in return, even if it is just the ability to ensure you dont run out of resources.

Resource denial is the only strategic metagame in town... if you can buy boosters that mitigate resource denial then you have nothing left to work with.

[TheInferno]

I ersonalyl havent read anything aobut paying to collect resources faster. They have said you can pay to get xp faster (like in tribes ascend) and i think they have hinted that you might be able to buy resources outright, but not to collect them quicker. But as I said, ive not seen them say this anywhere.

This is the nature of f2p - buying resources is not paying to win, its paying to give you access to the tools you want to use when you want to use them, rather than waiting to earn them manually. Its perfectly reasoanble here. Someone has to pay for this game, so there has to be something worthwhile buying that will appeak to a significant number of the playerbase, you can't seriously expect to have people who pay get nothing worthwhile in return, even if it is just the ability to ensure you dont run out of resources.

Thing is, by selling resources directly (like Auraxium) they have the problem where people can trade Auraxium for the other resources, which they then use to buy grenades/implants. What's the difference between that and simply selling those grenades and implants directly, which they said they didn't want to do?

As long as the resource booster is quite mild, I don't think I would mind too much. No directly buying resources though. XP Boosters are fine, though.

EDIT: Mazikaise brings up the other point, one of the big parts of this territory control system is that it's what gets you resources. As long as the resource boosters are a small percentage thing over a period of time, I think it will work, though they'll have to be careful.

Honestly, seeing how much boosters affect the gameplay is probably one of their big beta questions.

[SergeantNubins]

Like I said though, it was just hinted, never mentioned outright. I imagine there's a ton of stuff they are considering or have been considering monetising that they never will.

[Purple]

Can anyone tell me what happened to this thread? i dident log on for a few hours and we are on halo 3 and paying to get resources?

[SergeantNubins]

Can anyone tell me what happened to this thread? i dident log on for a few hours and we are on halo 3 and paying to get resources?

It was determined that the main problem some people had with heavy assault flying, was the issue of them bailing as a deployment tool.

The main counter to that, was that reavers cost resources so it would be very wasteful to do it. So now the conversation is revolving around just how wasteful is it, what methods are there to get resources etc.

[TheInferno]

It's the internet, how are you surprised by a derail? :p

I think I posted this, but the only thing I'm actually opposed to is a dedicated "pilot" class. Too narrow of a focus for a class.

[Letten]

I am a part of this BF crowd and I assure you WE know how it is when fans of some other game comes in and tries to dictate how YOUR game should look. It is horrible, and it ruins the franchise, so whatever you PS1 vets decide, I will be for it.

[Saintlycow]

The HA is only going to use the flying vehicle to get to a location. People are going to find that gal drops are safer and cheaper

[Xyntech]

I am a part of this BF crowd and I assure you WE know how it is when fans of some other game comes in and tries to dictate how YOUR game should look. It is horrible, and it ruins the franchise, so whatever you PS1 vets decide, I will be for it.

Hopefully what the devs decide, with heavy input from the vets and a healthy amount of consideration towards other players from new games.

The devs have to stick with their vision though, or the fans will destroy it. It happened somewhat with the first Planetside.

Personally, I haven't seen any compelling reasons why LA should be able to fly an aircraft and HA shouldn't. Both classes will be balanced against each other and be valuable classes in their own right outside of piloting, and as long as bailing isn't the primary go to transport method for 90% of players, it really shouldn't matter what classes can pilot, as long as it isn't inherently overpowered.

MAXes would be inherently overpowered. Their AA weapons would have a good chance of killing the aircraft that downed them. The AV weapons that HA carry do not fall into this problem, at least not in footage we've seen.

Any discussion about bailing problems (engi's, cloakers, LA, or anybody using fighters for transport instead of Galaxies) is a derailment of the thread. The OP even clarified that he was thinking more along the lines of HA landing and getting out of the aircraft.

This is about whether the power difference in HA vs LA (or other classes) is enough to warrant restricting HA from flying. I believe that what we have seen and the design philosophies that we've heard indicate that there will be enough downsides and tradeoffs (in addition to their strengths) which will make HA just as good and bad as any other class in the game, unlike the uber Rexo we currently have in PS1.

So in my opinion, there is absolutely no valid reason to keep HA out of the pilots seat.

[SpcFarlen]

I also dont see why there needs to be a restriction on pilots, besides max. Hell LA have a huge advantage over every other class because they dont to get the ejection cert with jetpack. Just look at the E3 coverage with that Vanu pilot exiting then jetpacking back into the Scythe. BROKEN!!!

[Meriv]

I also dont see why there needs to be a restriction on pilots, besides max. Hell LA have a huge advantage over every other class because they dont to get the ejection cert with jetpack. Just look at the E3 coverage with that Vanu pilot exiting then jetpacking back into the Scythe. BROKEN!!!

Can i get link with minute (if i don't steal too much time, really thanks in advance)?

[Rexdezi]

I don't even know why this is an issue. Of course HA should be able to fly aircraft, not one single gameplay reason has been offered that makes any fucking sense whatsoever as to why they shouldn't.

[Rexdezi]

Engineers shouldn't be allowed to fly because they can just get out and repair.
LA shouldn't be allowed as it makes ejector seats useless
Infiltrators shouldn't be allowed as they can get to sniping spots they otherwise wouldn't get to
HA shouldn't be allowed because they have a piss weak rocket launcher.

OP your logic is flawless.
/sarcasm

[Xyntech]

Engineers shouldn't be allowed to fly because they can just get out and repair.
LA shouldn't be allowed as it makes ejector seats useless
Infiltrators shouldn't be allowed as they can get to sniping spots they otherwise wouldn't get to
HA shouldn't be allowed because they have a piss weak rocket launcher.

OP your logic is flawless.
/sarcasm

You missed one. Medics shouldn't be able to fly because they can hotdrop onto a hard to reach roof where LA's can fly up to for free healing, or spam healing and revive grenades on other troops from relative safety.

Also, engineers can set up turrets from evil locations on roofs (assuming they allow turrets to aim downwards).

This really is the wrong topic to be discussing. The real issue is bailing versus Gal drops. Rexo flying aircraft in PS1 would have been broken, due to the fact that it would make Agile armor useless, at least after the surgile nerf. HA flying aircraft in PS2 is a completely different matter and is not broken in any way. Period. Don't even need to see beta, because all classes MUST be relatively evenly balanced or else the entire class system falls apart. So if HA is ever overpowered as a pilot class, then there is a problem with HA in general and the class must be balanced. Flying is not something that will overpower HA.

MAXes it would overpower, because MAXes have a lot better AA weaponry than HA has.

Bailing, people, bailing. As long as bailing is well balanced to be less preferable than Galaxy dropping in most average situations, for most average players, there is no problem. If bailing is overpowered and overly useful, then that is the issue that needs to be addressed, because it will be overpowered for every class, from Light Assault to Heavy Assault to Infiltrators, etc.

[Baneblade]

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

[Baneblade]

Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter

[Purple]

Engineers shouldn't be allowed to fly because they can just get out and repair.
LA shouldn't be allowed as it makes ejector seats useless
Infiltrators shouldn't be allowed as they can get to sniping spots they otherwise wouldn't get to
HA shouldn't be allowed because they have a piss weak rocket launcher.

OP your logic is flawless.
/sarcasm

Personal attacks are uncalled for. There was a reason i posted this asking for other points of view.

[Purple]

Don't even need to see beta, because all classes MUST be relatively evenly balanced or else the entire class system falls apart. So if HA is ever overpowered as a pilot class, then there is a problem with HA in general and the class must be balanced. Flying is not something that will overpower HA.
.

I suppose that i was still on how powerfull HA were in PS1. Your right this could be more balanced in PS2.

[The Kush]

No heavy assault for vehicles

[Xyntech]

I suppose that i was still on how powerfull HA were in PS1. Your right this could be more balanced in PS2.

I don't doubt that HA weapons in PS2 will still be powerful either. But LA being able to hop around the battlefield is going to be a good trade off, as will the engi and infiltrator abilities. It's more that other roles have been given a buff in PS2, and that HA can't do much else other than carry big anti infantry and anti vehicle guns.

If HA does end up being overpowered as pilots in PS2, I would certainly want to see some sort of solution. Either tweaking HA in some small way to fix it, or preventing HA from flying. For now, it seems pretty evenly balanced to me though, and I think you will see a lot more engi's and Light Assault flying than Heavy Assault. Light Assault mostly, at least among the better and more dedicated pilots and rapid responders.

No heavy assault for vehicles

Got any good reasons or is that just your opinion? Because that would be my initial gut reaction as well, but I can't support that initial reaction with any good reasoning.

[Unforgiven]

as a pilot, and a Heavy assualt marine, i dont think HA should be able to fly.... ever been in the cockpit of a jet fighter at an air show or museum??

now imagine being in that cockpit, with 200lbs of body armor trying to crush you when you pull G's, not to mention the added size in that already super-cramped space.

hell, i bet you wont even be able to lift your self out of the 45 degree angle reclined seat to push the required buttons to fly an aircraft.

i know first hand trying to get out of that type of seat on a M1A1 MBT was impossible, you had to take your vest off to do it.

honestly, HA=No fly

Edit : not to mention if an HA can fly, whats the point of a GAL? it would be a better idea for all of you to just jump in your mossie/reaver/scythe

[Xyntech]

honestly, HA=No fly

Edit : not to mention if an HA can fly, whats the point of a GAL? it would be a better idea for all of you to just jump in your mossie/reaver/scythe

If fighters are a superior choice over Galaxies for anyone other than rapid responders, then the system is already broken, even if HA can't pilot. As long as HA isn't objectively better in infantry combat than every other class (ignoring MAXes), than HA flying will be just as balanced as any other class flying.

Also, this is a game, not real life. Things should be realistic when they improve gameplay and unrealistic when when reality is worse for gameplay. Also, this is the future. There is no reason why the armor couldn't be improving a persons ability to withstand G forces rather than crushing them further.

[Kran De Loy]

Blocking HA from some vehicles.. eh, alright. From all of them? What? No.

Like allowing an HA to fly a Gal is fine as they're huge bulky behemoths anyway. Or a Sunder or an MBT even. Letting an HA on just about anything is fine.

Forcing a player that is normally a HA to spawn as a different class for no reason just so he can fly is a bit of a dick move. Arbitrarily taking up his time for stuff like that is just mean headed.

Only things I could think of blocking an HA from piloting is maybe the ES air superiority fighters like the Scythe, Mossy or Reaver. However since the amount of sensible vehicles a HA can not get into is so... restricted, why even bother with restricting them in the first place?

So in the end, just wait for BETA testing and if it's a problem then the devs will be able to come up with something about it at that time.

Edit: Also the Flavor Text for the HA class is that the HA armor IS exosuit armor, high tech shit that helps with muscle power and what not, however it is much much lighter and less restrictive than the MAX suit which is where the different limitations on weaponry and mobility comes from.

http://www.planetside2.com/news/heavy-assault-commlink-2012
The development of the Heavy Assault soldier was a relatively recent innovation on Auraxis. Designed to combat the surge of instant nanite-assembled vehicles, their presence on the battlefield poses a serious threat to tanks and infantry alike. Their custom Reinforced Exosuit armor configuration is responsible for their ability to take hits that would kill other soldiers, while their heavy weaponry allows them to punch holes in enemy tanks or lay down sustained fire. Equipped with some of the strongest armor and weapons available to infantry, a seasoned Heavy Assault will leave a path of corpses and burning wreckage in their wake.

[Bags]

HA can take like 1 more bullet than a LA so I don't see the big deal. Plus, LA can jetpack out and avoid the ejector seat.

[Traak]

It isn't how many more bullets they can take that's the issue. It's how many they can dish out.

Like a MAX, your plane is your weapon. If you want to keep using it to fight, don't get shot down. Padding the capabilities of some of the fastest and most heavily armed vehicles with enabling the pilot to also pack the most firepower? It's like a Gundam Mobile Suit.

Carry a knife and a pistol and avoid flak. It's part of being a pilot.

[Bags]

It isn't how many more bullets they can take that's the issue. It's how many they can dish out.

Like a MAX, your plane is your weapon. If you want to keep using it to fight, don't get shot down. Padding the capabilities of some of the fastest and most heavily armed vehicles with enabling the pilot to also pack the most firepower? It's like a Gundam Mobile Suit.

Carry a knife and a pistol and avoid flak. It's part of being a pilot.

Well then LA shouldn't be allowed in either.

[SKYeXile]

Well then LA shouldn't be allowed in either.

traak is PS1 fodder and extremely butt hurt about anything that killed him ever(which is everything) best to ignore all he says.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

The devs have to stick with their vision though, or the fans will destroy it. It happened somewhat with the first Planetside.

Except they've made a whole bunch of design decisions based off of the end of life broken version of PS1, y'know, the one 'the fans destroyed' and there's a bunch of players saying it's a bad call and they get shouted down for it.

[Rexdezi]

Personal attacks are uncalled for. There was a reason i posted this asking for other points of view.

my point of view is that this topic is completely stupid and that your argument has no merit of any kind.

[Rexdezi]

if HA cant get into a plane because of their armour, why can a LA get in with their jetpack, where is the space to store an infiltrators sniper, engineers tools, medics medipacks?

[Kran De Loy]

There really is no logical point at this time to restrict HA from getting into any of the vehicles currently on the roster.

If this were PS1 where Rexos could do just about everything (Heal, Repair, Heavy Weapons) then I would completely agree with limiting them from being able to pilot anything.

Since it's not PS1 and the HA are just as valid a choice for piloting as any other class, no more; no less, then this whole argument is moot.

At least until Beta when you can actively point at something that needs balancing.

[Toppopia]

There really is no logical point at this time to restrict HA from getting into any of the vehicles currently on the roster.

If this were PS1 where Rexos could do just about everything (Heal, Repair, Heavy Weapons) then I would completely agree with limiting them from being able to pilot anything.

Since it's not PS1 and the HA are just as valid a choice for piloting as any other class, no more; no less, then this whole argument is moot.

At least until Beta when you can actively point at something that needs balancing.

Actually, the Engineer is the best choice as drivers/pilots because they can repair. So they are a more valid choice. Then Light Assault is a below that as pilots. Then rest are equal validility while Infiltrator is least valid as driver/pilot. (Except for quadbike for recon).

[SKYeXile]

Actually, the Engineer is the best choice as drivers/pilots because they can repair. So they are a more valid choice. Then Light Assault is a below that as pilots. Then rest are equal validility while Infiltrator is least valid as driver/pilot. (Except for quadbike for recon).

so can sunderers, pilots will fly with light assault if they don't have a bailing mechanism equipped.

[CollinBRTD]

There really is no logical point at this time to restrict HA from getting into any of the vehicles currently on the roster.

If this were PS1 where Rexos could do just about everything (Heal, Repair, Heavy Weapons) then I would completely agree with limiting them from being able to pilot anything.

Since it's not PS1 and the HA are just as valid a choice for piloting as any other class, no more; no less, then this whole argument is moot.

At least until Beta when you can actively point at something that needs balancing.

Normaly i would agree with to wait until Beta for balancing issus. But this one is a design choise.

A. Is an Aircraft a multipurpose transport and attack vehicle
B. Is an Aircraft a mulitpurpose attack vehicle

When you look at other FPS games one of the gamebreakers was always the aircraft. To strong and it dominates the Battlefield ;). To weak its just beeing used as a transport from A to B. Since in Planetside everybody can spawn an airvehicle it can be strong and hotdropped from.

What i never understood in these discussion in PS1 and PS2 everybody talks about Teamwork. Like the TR tanks needs to have 5 to 10 people to operate, but when it comes to aircav it needed to be a single seater dominate all vehicle including hotdropping with the most powerfull weapons.

I would actually say no bailing from single seater aircrafts! But since that is not happening HA and bailing should be banned.

If you have single seater hotdropping aircrafts with HA there is no use for galdrops no more, since you can all spawn aircav. Shoot everything to pieces and hotdrop it with everything exept maxes.

Collin Cr35 BR5 out

[Sledgecrushr]

I just cant see engi being THE class to be pilots, its not like they can bail out in a dogfight and repair there aircraft. Now I do think engi will be THE class to drive all ground vehicles. But as a pilot and wanting to maximize my airplane I will take LA every time to fly. Of course beta might prove me different.

[Mechzz]

What about changing the flight characteristics of the plane depending on the armour you wear when you get in?

So an infil gets no penalties
Engy/Medic get -5% speeed and manouevering
LA gets -10% speed and manouevering
HA gets -30% speed and manouevering
MAX gets -60% speed and manouevering

[Rexdezi]

Actually, the Engineer is the best choice as drivers/pilots because they can repair. So they are a more valid choice. Then Light Assault is a below that as pilots. Then rest are equal validility while Infiltrator is least valid as driver/pilot. (Except for quadbike for recon).

what? Infiltrator least valid??? Sorry but Inf would be my third choice pilot (LA being first, engi second) as i can use the mozzie/reaver (havent decided which yet) to fly myself to a secluded but advantageous sniping position, land, snipe, and if the battle moves around me, I can fly to the next spot. Infiltrator's would be better choices than Heavy Assault, better than Medic (I see no reason why a medic would ever fly)

[Malorn]

what? Infiltrator least valid??? Sorry but Inf would be my third choice pilot (LA being first, engi second) as i can use the mozzie/reaver (havent decided which yet) to fly myself to a secluded but advantageous sniping position, land, snipe, and if the battle moves around me, I can fly to the next spot. Infiltrator's would be better choices than Heavy Assault, better than Medic (I see no reason why a medic would ever fly)

You may find as an infiltrator that the Flash (ATV) is the best vehicle for you. I expect it to have an upgrade that turns it into a Wraith from PS1 and drive around cloaked. It's also smaller. I can't imagine a parked aircraft off in a secluded area lasting long with hostile aircraft flying about. ATV more likely to not get noticed, and it's cheap resource-wise, so no big deal if you do.

[Sledgecrushr]

As far as the post goes I think its fine for all of the reg inf guys to be able to fly.

[Rexdezi]

You may find as an infiltrator that the Flash (ATV) is the best vehicle for you. I expect it to have an upgrade that turns it into a Wraith from PS1 and drive around cloaked. It's also smaller. I can't imagine a parked aircraft off in a secluded area lasting long with hostile aircraft flying about. ATV more likely to not get noticed, and it's cheap resource-wise, so no big deal if you do.

There are places the flash can't get to that a Mozzie/Reaver(also Scythe) can get to, the top of rocky outcrops, umm... etc? :P

[Nasher]

From what we saw at E3 I don't think bailing works the same as planetside 1. When players bailed from moving aircraft (except the galaxy) they kept the momentum of the vehicle and then went splat at high speed.

So to use a vehicle to get on to a rooftop you would have to stop right in front of all the anti-air, bail and hope the vehicle doesn't land on your head.

[SergeantNubins]

This talk about reavers being a better method of transport/insertion that galaxy's is just not valid.. it says a galaxy can now hold 2 squads of people.. thats 20, including at least 4 maxes (and this can be alterered based on the pilot's certs to allow more maxes).

So you can drop 20 people of mixed class + maxes onto a single target, with the resource cost of just the one galaxy.. or you can drop 20 people of mixed class without maxes for the resource cost of 20 reavers.. plus the added time and organisation of having to pull 20 reavers in quick succession - and assuming you have the ability to pull reavers in the first place and the vehicle hasnt been denied your faction through lack of resources/facilities. It would also require considerable discipline and skill from your squads that they all fly to the same target, reach it at the same time and dont get distracted by trying to kill that half dead tank you flew over. And also avoid getting killed by 20 pilotless reavers raining down over the drop area.

The galaxy can also be recycled, a skilled gal pilot can keep the thing alive, circle it back to the spawn point and have it waiting for respawns to allow a quick regroup and take off once you are done, or if its a tower can simply circle until the tower is taken and then land outside and pick everyone up.

On paper at least, there just doesnt seem to be any competition between the effectiveness of galaxy's vs reavers for hotdrops.

[Nasher]

This talk about reavers being a better method of transport/insertion that galaxy's is just not valid.. it says a galaxy can now hold 2 squads of people.. thats 20, including at least 4 maxes (and this can be alterered based on the pilot's certs to allow more maxes).

So you can drop 20 people of mixed class + maxes onto a single target, with the resource cost of just the one galaxy.. or you can drop 20 people of mixed class without maxes for the resource cost of 20 reavers.. plus the added time and organisation of having to pull 20 reavers in quick succession - and assuming you have the ability to pull reavers in the first place and the vehicle hasnt been denied your faction through lack of resources/facilities. It would also require considerable discipline and skill from your squads that they all fly to the same target, reach it at the same time and dont get distracted by trying to kill that half dead tank you flew over. And also avoid getting killed by 20 pilotless reavers raining down over the drop area.

The galaxy can also be recycled, a skilled gal pilot can keep the thing alive, circle it back to the spawn point and have it waiting for respawns to allow a quick regroup and take off once you are done, or if its a tower can simply circle until the tower is taken and then land outside and pick everyone up.

On paper at least, there just doesnt seem to be any competition between the effectiveness of galaxy's vs reavers for hotdrops.

I agree with this. Once the battle gets going and people are properly gear out and in organized squads (unlike at E3!), Reavers/mosq/sythe wont be able to get near the center of the battle without getting instantly pummeled with anti-air. While galaxies can take a hell of a beating and get right over the enemy base with a whole platoon on board.

[The Kush]

as a pilot, and a Heavy assualt marine, i dont think HA should be able to fly.... ever been in the cockpit of a jet fighter at an air show or museum??

now imagine being in that cockpit, with 200lbs of body armor trying to crush you when you pull G's, not to mention the added size in that already super-cramped space.

hell, i bet you wont even be able to lift your self out of the 45 degree angle reclined seat to push the required buttons to fly an aircraft.

i know first hand trying to get out of that type of seat on a M1A1 MBT was impossible, you had to take your vest off to do it.

honestly, HA=No fly

Edit : not to mention if an HA can fly, whats the point of a GAL? it would be a better idea for all of you to just jump in your mossie/reaver/scythe

@xyntech these are some of my points

I would further add what Higby would call "trade offs". Essentially by picking HA you are carrying more armor and thus are getting rid of the ability to operate a vehicle.

[Khrakhan]

@xyntech these are some of my points

I would further add what Higby would call "trade offs". Essentially by picking HA you are carrying more armor and thus are getting rid of the ability to operate a vehicle.

It's not as if they are wearing that much more armor to really add to their surviveability. To not allow HA to drive/pilot wouldnt be a fair trade off.


I dont understand why people are getting so itchy over HA's in a vehicle? Theyre not harder to kill than LA's (less maneuverable), maybe only slightly more firepower.


Really just seems as if people are being how they are in real life.....they like putting unnecessary restrictions on people because of some opinion they have that they feel is superior.


I could argue that LAs shouldnt be able to drive/pilot. How do their jetpacks fit? And that is OP anyway being able to just bail out of a vehicle without needing an ejection seat.

Infiltrators cant pilot either because then it would be unfair that they can get into higher up places they wouldnt normally be able to reach.....how dare a sniper get into a good sniping position, its OP I tell ya!

A medic shouldnt be able to pilot either. What with all that time spent in medical school, where the hell would he have learned how to pilot?! Plus it'd be op if the medic could fly behind enemy lines and heal a teammate, medics are supposed to stay on their own side of the lines and get shot, anything else is just op.

It's also way unfair to allow engineers to be able to pilot, since they can just land and repair their own vehicles. What about all those honest LA's who want to be pilots, but they cant heal their own vehicles so it's definitely way unfair to allow engineers to.



Bottom line: Max's are the only units that cant drive, and the only unit that makes sense for such a restriction.

[Envenom]

I have no problems with HA's flying. Why this is even being discussed is beyond me.

[Shotokanguy]

Damn, 12 pages. No way I'm reading all of that.

I worry that they're taking balance too far. They're too scared. Snipers can't have jump jets because they can get to really good sniping spots. Light assault can't use big weapons. Blegh.

I'll have to play the game to understand what Heavy Assault is like, but the idea of not being able to use Mossies in THIS game sounds wrong.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Oh man, this is hilarious.

There are people in this thread that have complained about PS1 'super soldiers' in other threads swooping into a base in mozzies, bailing and hacking out RExo/HA/AV... now you can swoop into a base in your ESAC (Empire Specific Air Cav), bail out and already BE in your Heavy Armour equipped with AI + AV weapon and they embrace the idea. :doh:

[Bags]

@xyntech these are some of my points

I would further add what Higby would call "trade offs". Essentially by picking HA you are carrying more armor and thus are getting rid of the ability to operate a vehicle.

You're also giving up the ability to jetpack, or revive, or repair, or snipe, or hack faster, or stealth... :)

[FuzzyandBlue]

Oh man, this is hilarious.

There are people in this thread that have complained about PS1 'super soldiers' in other threads swooping into a base in mozzies, bailing and hacking out RExo/HA/AV... now you can swoop into a base in your ESAC (Empire Specific Air Cav), bail out and already BE in your Heavy Armour equipped with AI + AV weapon and they embrace the idea. :doh:

But in PS1 a rexo had a lot more heath, armor and fire power than the lighter classes. From the few hours we have of PS2 footage it is clear that HA is not equal to a 40BR rexo, not even close. A HA may take like .5 seconds longer to kill than a LA.

So yeah I can bail with my AI/AV weapons, but its not like it will take 60 bullets to take me down, it will take 6-7 shots max. Right now in PS2 Rexos don't exist.

[Toppopia]

I just cant see engi being THE class to be pilots, its not like they can bail out in a dogfight and repair there aircraft. Now I do think engi will be THE class to drive all ground vehicles. But as a pilot and wanting to maximize my airplane I will take LA every time to fly. Of course beta might prove me different.

Have you played BF3? Because my favourite moments of being in a jet is to be disabled/damaged, and land in some random place out of the battlezone, repair before the 10 seconds is up, and come back in to fight, if i have to, i will even land on the aircraft carrier, i have done it before, and so have lots of other people, so i will probably attempt to do that in PS2, or maybe the enemy will be smarter and actually hunt me down, instead of leaving me for dead. But i guess since this isn't BF3 and everyone doesn't have a parachute, then i can see LH being tied with Engineer in being useful as a pilot.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

But in PS1 a rexo had a lot more heath, armor and fire power than the lighter classes. From the few hours we have of PS2 footage it is clear that HA is not equal to a 40BR rexo, not even close. A HA may take like .5 seconds longer to kill than a LA.

I think the only weapons that took as much as a half second more time to kill a RExo over an Agile was, funnily enough, the Jackhammer and Sweeper, which went from something like a 0.48 to a 0.96 TTK and 1.04 to 1.56 TTK respectively.

A PS1 RExo didn't do any more damage than an Agile with Heavy Assault, your 'more firepower' comment is obviously meant to be 'they can carry more weapons' aka deal with both infantry and MAXs, the main 'they can do everything at once' issue people seemed to have, yet what does the new PS2 HA class deal with? Infantry and MAXs and you can now FLY in them. You bypass the whole need for Adv Hack AND a functioning equipment terminal to even GET the RExo from in PS1.

Also I wish people stopped using BR40 as their premise for arguements against PS1, something that was implemented at the very end of the games' life yet treated as if it was the founding principle of the game. Pity how most of you only seem to have experience of PS1 in the BR40 era.

[Kran De Loy]

So a bunch of people say that Engi will be the best Pilot class. I'm not gonna say you're all wrong about that, however your not always going to get the chance to repair your vehicle. Once that opportunity is taken away, how is the Engi any better than any other class then?

The point is the HA can't repair his own vehicle, the Engi can't fly away on a jet pack, the LA can't heal himself, the Infil can't throw out a bunch of AA and the Medic can't Stealth off somewhere safer.

It's all already balanced and BETA is where we're gonna find all those little rough patches in the balancing that needs tuning.

I have no problems with HA's flying. Why this is even being discussed is beyond me.
Because discussions last for as long as two sides of an argument keep beating their heads together like a couple mountain goats in Spring.

In this particular edition one half is trying to tell the other half to stop being ridiculous.

It hasn't been working.

Oh man, this is hilarious.

There are people in this thread that have complained about PS1 'super soldiers' in other threads swooping into a base in mozzies, bailing and hacking out RExo/HA/AV... now you can swoop into a base in your ESAC (Empire Specific Air Cav), bail out and already BE in your Heavy Armour equipped with AI + AV weapon and they embrace the idea. :doh:

Eh, you're forgetting about that part where HA wont be able to heal or repair anything like in PS1.

[SKYeXile]

Eh, you're forgetting about that part where HA wont be able to heal or repair anything like in PS1.

you're forgetting about the part where health regens and there is no repairing since you have halo armour. as for needing to be an enginner to repair gens or terminals etc? well you can kiss that goodbye...the games been modernised lobotomised.

[Kran De Loy]

you're forgetting about the part where health regens and there is no repairing since you have halo armour. as for needing to be an enginner to repair gens or terminals etc? well you can kiss that goodbye...the games been modernised lobotomised.

Since when did Health Regen get confirmed!? Wasn't that just speculation for something for E3 only??

[Kalbuth]

Since when did Health Regen get confirmed!? Wasn't that just speculation for something for E3 only??

Nothing has been said about health regen being a E3 only thing. As far as I understand it, it's going to stay in full game

[Rexdezi]

It's not as if they are wearing that much more armor to really add to their surviveability. To not allow HA to drive/pilot wouldnt be a fair trade off.


I dont understand why people are getting so itchy over HA's in a vehicle? Theyre not harder to kill than LA's (less maneuverable), maybe only slightly more firepower.


Really just seems as if people are being how they are in real life.....they like putting unnecessary restrictions on people because of some opinion they have that they feel is superior.


I could argue that LAs shouldnt be able to drive/pilot. How do their jetpacks fit? And that is OP anyway being able to just bail out of a vehicle without needing an ejection seat.

Infiltrators cant pilot either because then it would be unfair that they can get into higher up places they wouldnt normally be able to reach.....how dare a sniper get into a good sniping position, its OP I tell ya!

A medic shouldnt be able to pilot either. What with all that time spent in medical school, where the hell would he have learned how to pilot?! Plus it'd be op if the medic could fly behind enemy lines and heal a teammate, medics are supposed to stay on their own side of the lines and get shot, anything else is just op.

It's also way unfair to allow engineers to be able to pilot, since they can just land and repair their own vehicles. What about all those honest LA's who want to be pilots, but they cant heal their own vehicles so it's definitely way unfair to allow engineers to.



Bottom line: Max's are the only units that cant drive, and the only unit that makes sense for such a restriction.

You basically rewrote what I did in a prettier way :P

[Rexdezi]

As far as I understand it, Shields regen and health doesn't...

[MrKWalmsley]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned (because there are 13 bloody pages worth!) but how about making it a certification or utility for HA to fly aircraft, so they have to at least give something up in order to be able to use the thing. Maybe even give up their missile launcher and just use their LMG as a primary weapon.

[Rexdezi]

THEY SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GIVE UP ANYTHING!!!

My god how stupid are you people?!?!?!??!?!

[Khrakhan]

I don't know if this has already been mentioned (because there are 13 bloody pages worth!) but how about making it a certification or utility for HA to fly aircraft, so they have to at least give something up in order to be able to use the thing. Maybe even give up their missile launcher and just use their LMG as a primary weapon.

....no.

If people are worried about HAs bailing and using rocket launcher in mid air then just make it to where you cant use rocket launcher while falling....problem solved and no unnecessary restrictions.

[Kalbuth]

Yes, because relying on others to do something in a multiplayer game is stupid! You know, it's multiplayer, fuck the others!
/sarcasm

EDIT : it all boils down on what you think aircraft should be confined to.
1) Is it ok to use them as transport? => no restriction
2) Are they assault vehicle, and transport should be done through gals? => restrictions

no need to call people "stupid" because you prefer choice 1 to choice 2

[SKYeXile]

Since when did Health Regen get confirmed!? Wasn't that just speculation for something for E3 only??

i dont understand the thinking of why it would be E3 only.

[Kran De Loy]

Nothing has been said about health regen being a E3 only thing. As far as I understand it, it's going to stay in full game
It could just as well be "Nothing has been said about health regen being a E3 only thing. As far as I understand it, it's not going to stay in full game

See, nothing has been said on it since E3. However I do recall somewhere about health NOT being on regen, while Shields do. I do not recall where that was said tho. :(

I don't know if this has already been mentioned (because there are 13 bloody pages worth!) but how about making it a certification or utility for HA to fly aircraft, so they have to at least give something up in order to be able to use the thing. Maybe even give up their missile launcher and just use their LMG as a primary weapon.
Possibly solution, but only if the HA need to have some balace from being able to pop out of aircraft, MBT, Lightnings or anything else similar that will come later in the game's life.

Current discussion is about as much "Wait until beta to check balance before bitching about balance" as it is how to actually balance HA from flying.

[Sledgecrushr]

I wonder what the terminal velocity is going to be in this game. Because I think if you are falling fast enough all of this bailing shooting someone with a rocket and then getting back in your jet nonsense would be really difficult.

[Greeniegriz]

i dont understand the thinking of why it would be E3 only.

Regen will surely be in game. The rate of regen is the primary concern. Wont know till beta, much like we wont know if HA's flying will be a problem (till beta).

Cheers,

GG

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

[Kran De Loy]

i dont understand the thinking of why it would be E3 only.

YOu saw how good those players were on Day 1? Yeah, maybe they figured that with all the other limitations and special rules they were implementing to keep things easy for the E3 press, why wouldn't regening health be another one of them?

I mean, being able to regen health would pretty much steal about 40% of the medic's job. All he would be useful for is resing and occasionally healing a single target Heavy and Medic TeamFortress2 style. That would really really really really piss me off if that was in the game.

Regen will surely be in game. The rate of regen is the primary concern. Wont know till beta, much like we wont know if HA's flying will be a problem (till beta).

Cheers,

GG

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Oh fuck no. FUuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck no. Fuck that. No health regen, ever. Shields regen is good enough. Please, GOD PLEASE, do not take away a big part of the Medic's function.

Edit: Yeah found some infos. Apparently back at the GDC footage, Malorn made a thread detailing some observations. In it he noticed that Health did not regen.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=39815&highlight=Health+Regen

I'd appreciated it if any further mention of Health Regen and what not went there instead of clogging up this thread.

[xnorb]

All depends on when the regen kicks in and how fast it is.
This of course needs to be balanced to actual game pace.

[Greeniegriz]

Edit: Yeah found some infos. Apparently back at the GDC footage, Malorn made a thread detailing some observations. In it he noticed that Health did not regen.

Interesting, will have to watch the GDC footage again :D

Shield regen > health regen for sure. Or no regen, I really don't care either way.

On topic: Wait for beta/release :p

Cheers,

GG


Sent from here using Tapatalk 2

[MrKWalmsley]

....no.

If people are worried about HAs bailing and using rocket launcher in mid air then just make it to where you cant use rocket launcher while falling....problem solved and no unnecessary restrictions.

Them doing it while falling is not the main issue, Since the fall time will not be longer than the lock on time. It's the fact that you just bested an enemy in a dog-fight, but now they're going to bail out, and as soon as they land safely get a lock on and take you down. Mid-air locking really is not the problem here because the time spent falling is negligible.

An alternative I could see is as you said not allowing them to lock on while falling, but also stop them from using it for like 10 seconds after landing. But then there is still the problem that if the area the person got shot down in is a particularly busy dogfight, the aircraft will not likely have tried to run out of lock on range, and so will still be littering the air.

[Khrakhan]

Them doing it while falling is not the main issue, Since the fall time will not be longer than the lock on time. It's the fact that you just bested an enemy in a dog-fight, but now they're going to bail out, and as soon as they land safely get a lock on and take you down. Mid-air locking really is not the problem here because the time spent falling is negligible.

An alternative I could see is as you said not allowing them to lock on while falling, but also stop them from using it for like 10 seconds after landing. But then there is still the problem that if the area the person got shot down in is a particularly busy dogfight, the aircraft will not likely have tried to run out of lock on range, and so will still be littering the air.

Chances are if he bails he is not going to survive the fall, so I don't see where you're coming from.

[MrKWalmsley]

Chances are if he bails he is not going to survive the fall, so I don't see where you're coming from.

Seriously? Have you not ever heard of ejector seats? Or seen the distance people in PS2 can fall without sustaining any damage let alone dying? Plus a heavy assault will have a much greater chance of surviving falls than anyone else, so it is even worse!

[Khrakhan]

Seriously? Have you not ever heard of ejector seats? Or seen the distance people in PS2 can fall without sustaining any damage let alone dying? Plus a heavy assault will have a much greater chance of surviving falls than anyone else, so it is even worse!

Well if he certs into the ejector seat then he should be able to use it. And so what if he lands and then tries to shoot a plane out of the sky? What about all the other anti air thats already going to be on the ground anyways?

Expect to get shot down, it's going to happen. Wanting to restrict a class from piloting because you're afraid of it shooting at you is ridiculous.

I'm going to be an eng/infil pilot myself and yet I have no fears of HAs piloting. If they manage to bail before I blow them up, so be it. Ill either shoot him out of the sky, watch where he lands then blow him up, or just get out of there and expect to be evading anti air fire anyway.



May as well complain about maxs being able to use the elevators to get on a roof and shoot you out of the sky, or for tanks AA guns being really good.

Wanting to take away somebody else's toy because you feel it's 'unfair' is childish.

[outsider]

20 years ago it was perfectly acceptable to jump into a game for the first time, get killed by a chicken, spend all your money buying chick armour and being unable to wear it because your a man.

10 years ago it was perfectly acceptable to run all the way across a base to spawn a vehicle, realise you're in your heavy assault build, run all the way across the base again to swap out armour and then run all the way back to the vehicle spawn point. ( actually it was a major pita back then too )

Neither scenario works anymore. It's not a concession on gameplay mechanics to attract the BF crowd, it's a streamlining of systems so the game does not arbitrarily penalise the modern gamer. it's not just the BF crowd that hates running 5-10 minutes ( because of some stupid balance ruling ) before they can have fun; today it's 99% of everybody.

[MrKWalmsley]

Well if he certs into the ejector seat then he should be able to use it. And so what if he lands and then tries to shoot a plane out of the sky? What about all the other anti air thats already going to be on the ground anyways?

Anti-air that is already on the ground is fair game since the person decided to engage aircraft as such. It's not the same as them choosing to be aircraft, and then when they are beaten in a dogfight decide to bail out and use his/her new given weapons to bear. So basically you are giving them the advantage of being a smaller target and being able to take cover directly after having been bested in combat, rather than punishing the person for bailing with a timer on the weapons usage.

Expect to get shot down, it's going to happen. Wanting to restrict a class from piloting because you're afraid of it shooting at you is ridiculous.

First off, I am expecting to get shot down, but I do not want to be able to gain an advantage over the person who shot me down once I have done. Secondly, I do not now want to restrict a class from piloting (as I have posted several ideas, each one replacing the last), but even with the restrictions I would now place, it is not based on me being afraid to be shot down by a HA, otherwise I would being advocating anti-aircraft weapons to be removed from HA's altogether, wouldn't I?

No, the fact is it is not a case of me not wanting to be shot down by heavy assaults, its a case of me not wanting to be shot down by the guy I just blew out of the sky and bested in combat, who is now safely on the floor, in amongst cover, with his anti-air weapon at the ready, and I would not want myself to be able to do it either. Stop strawmanning me and respond to the actual argument.

May as well complain about maxs being able to use the elevators to get on a roof and shoot you out of the sky, or for tanks AA guns being really good.


No I wouldn't stop making up a position for me, I am talking about someone who I have already beaten in one phase of battle, who is now getting the advantage.

Also you keep thinking that this whole thing is going to be a 1 on 1 affair, which 9 times out of 10, it will not be. We're talking about big 50 man dogfights, where you cannot simply turn and run since you'd be chased down by the other enemies! And it should be a case of you destroying the enemy aircraft and then moving onto the next, not having to expose yourself even more to other aircraft while you go hunting a guy hiding in dense cover who can take you down from said cover, who would not have been equipped to take you down if not for the mechanic! And if you're going to respond, stop making up crap about what I am actually saying and respond to my points directly.

[Sledgecrushr]

I dont know what all these complaints about HA when they will end up being a second rate class for flying.

[AzK]

I don't think weapons (or any equipment for that matter) should be class restricted to be honest, with maxes being the only exception.
Classes were a bad idea to begin with. Less bf3, more ps please.

[Nick]

In all my agile loadouts I have a Decimator so that kind of makes your point invalid. Also, Rexos in PS1 could carry a whole bunch of stuff. There is no inventories in PS2, just a set amount of things you can do. So there is no imbalance in PS2 regarding HA flying vehicles. Only MAXs, for obvious reasons.

Please calm down OP.

[Flaropri]

No, the fact is it is not a case of me not wanting to be shot down by heavy assaults, its a case of me not wanting to be shot down by the guy I just blew out of the sky and bested in combat, who is now safely on the floor, in amongst cover, with his anti-air weapon at the ready, and I would not want myself to be able to do it either.

So it's okay as long as they are shooting someone else? Because that is basically what all the other people will do, and probably some HAs as well, they'll use their "second life" via ejection to pick a valid target and try and make it explode, whether that's your aircraft, some other craft, a tank, or a character's head.

I will grant that in a given situation, the only guaranteed target to exist is whoever shot you down, but for the most part that won't be a problem, and if you are seriously the only one in the area nothing stops you from simply leaving using your superior speed, or at least getting to a more open area where it is easier to take on infantry.

I can understand you don't want to have to keep fighting someone after you shot down their aircraft, you want to have a greater feeling of victory, but the reality is that you didn't beat them, you only shot down their vehicle, and whether they are HA or not they are still a threat to you and your forces even if indirectly.

As far as delays go... It does take a (small) while for people to land after bailing with an ejection seat from what I've seen, and so far the only AV that HA has is the missile launcher, and that takes time to lock on, and probably can't while falling.

For now, at least wait until you see how everything works in beta before trying to solve something that is very likely not even a real problem.

[MrKWalmsley]

Very well, I'll suspend judgement until beta, if I ever get in.

[Khrakhan]

So it's okay as long as they are shooting someone else? Because that is basically what all the other people will do, and probably some HAs as well, they'll use their "second life" via ejection to pick a valid target and try and make it explode, whether that's your aircraft, some other craft, a tank, or a character's head.

I will grant that in a given situation, the only guaranteed target to exist is whoever shot you down, but for the most part that won't be a problem, and if you are seriously the only one in the area nothing stops you from simply leaving using your superior speed, or at least getting to a more open area where it is easier to take on infantry.

I can understand you don't want to have to keep fighting someone after you shot down their aircraft, you want to have a greater feeling of victory, but the reality is that you didn't beat them, you only shot down their vehicle, and whether they are HA or not they are still a threat to you and your forces even if indirectly.

As far as delays go... It does take a (small) while for people to land after bailing with an ejection seat from what I've seen, and so far the only AV that HA has is the missile launcher, and that takes time to lock on, and probably can't while falling.

For now, at least wait until you see how everything works in beta before trying to solve something that is very likely not even a real problem.

+rep

This site have any form of a rep system?

Either way, a nice and precise post, thanks. :groovy:

[Flaropri]

Very well, I'll suspend judgement until beta, if I ever get in.

I'd be very surprised if they didn't have an open beta at least late into it. Regardless, I'm sure we'll be able to see reports (and probably footage) from the beta and be able to comment on it into Live if necessary.

In between now and then, good luck, I hope we're both able to get into the beta and that it starts fairly soon.

[captainkapautz]

Dunno if it's been mentioned, but is it just me or is the HA really bland at the moment?

You get HA and AV, and that's pretty much it. No support ability or anything actually worth bringing for a team.

Shield only makes for a poor mans MAX and AV can easily been taken care of by either a MAX, an LA with C4 nades or even an Engineer with an AV-Turret.

If you add the vehiclerestrictions from PS1, then I just don't see the point why I'd take a HA over another Engineer/Medic/MAX.

[MCYRook]

I don't think weapons (or any equipment for that matter) should be class restricted to be honest, with maxes being the only exception.
Classes were a bad idea to begin with. Less bf3, more ps please.
Ohai, it's Azk. :groovy:

@topic: Wait For Beta.

There are too many differences to really compare this situation to old PS1. PS1 Agile dropper can bring HA+AV, PS2 Light dropper cannot. PS1 Rexo can bring his own rep and med tool and a ton of ammo, PS2 Heavy cannot. It's not as simple as "oh no, in PS2 we'll basically have Rexo hotdroppers!!" It's even possible that a PS2 Heavy on your tower will be less dangerous than a PS1 HA Agile. Especially if he doesn't warp. ;)

Most importantly, we don't know how TTK of Heavy and Light will fare against each other, and without knowing just how much of a difference that makes, you can't jump to any conclusions.

[Ratstomper]

As someone who still plays PS1, the armor restriction for certain vehicles is a pain in the ass. I'll be glad to see it go.

Let all infantry cept MAX units use all vehicles, imo. It's a good idea.

[Xyntech]

Them doing it while falling is not the main issue, Since the fall time will not be longer than the lock on time. It's the fact that you just bested an enemy in a dog-fight, but now they're going to bail out, and as soon as they land safely get a lock on and take you down. Mid-air locking really is not the problem here because the time spent falling is negligible.

An alternative I could see is as you said not allowing them to lock on while falling, but also stop them from using it for like 10 seconds after landing. But then there is still the problem that if the area the person got shot down in is a particularly busy dogfight, the aircraft will not likely have tried to run out of lock on range, and so will still be littering the air.

A few points:

1) The HA AV weapon wasn't a very good AA weapon in E3. Obviously this could change, but for the time being, we've seen a Reaver kill a AV user before dying, and we've seen tons of fighters afterburn to safety. As far as the information we currently know, a HA isn't going to bail out of his aircraft and be killing the person who shot them down, unless the enemy pilot is a complete moron.

2) Destroying vehicles gives you credit now. If they bail out, you still get xp for blowing up the vehicle and credit for a vehicle destruction. Their bailure will probably just give you a chance to get some extra experience for killing them as infantry as well. If the area is too hot and you gotta make a run for it, at least you still got your main reward.

3) HA will simply not be an optimal pilot/bailer. If they give up flares for an ejector seat, it will be easier to shoot them down in the first place. If they take flares and try to bail without an ejector seat, they will probably die or hit the ground severely wounded. If fall damage is still too little by the time beta arrives, then that's an area that will need to be addressed, because otherwise bailing modules will be pretty worthless, so I believe it's a safe assumption that for balance reasons, a lack of ejector seat will make bailing very deadly for people in most situations unless they are LA.

Based on what we currently know, HA will be a very mediocre pilot class, and LA will be an awesome pilot class.

As I've stated before, if we end up with a ton of HA just using bailing to get into a fight quicker, that's a problem with bailing vs Galaxy dropping, not a problem with HA flying fighters vs other classes flying fighters.

HA will be a class that will be well balanced against LA and Infiltrators and the rest. It will have tradeoffs, strengths and weaknesses. Due to this fact, it will be no more or less overpowered or underpowered as a pilot than any other class (minus MAXes).

If you find yourself in a hot situation and the pilot of the aircraft you were about to shoot down bails out as a HA and tries to lock on to you, just laugh at him for being a fail pilot and afterburn away. You still got your vehicle kill, and he is still a failure as a human being.

[Baron]

From my earlier post...

It doesn't matter that a HA pilot will sacrifice flares for a bailing mechanism, of course they will and they won't care about flares. They are interested in neither air-to-air nor air-to-ground combat. They will use the plane as quick transport only to bail over the desired target area. They do not care about flares as they can safely just afterburn to location and then bail.

My biggest issue with HA+piloting is how it devalues the Galaxy. Having everyone in your squad bail over target in mossies ...still simultaneously...is a pretty nice feature since you have speed + maneuverability plus the precision of bailing exactly where intended.

This happened constantly in PS1 ... if you needed to get to a base quickly for a re-secure, your team pulled mossies, not a galaxy.

[Ratstomper]

My biggest issue with HA+piloting is how it devalues the Galaxy. Having everyone in your squad bail over target in mossies ...still simultaneously...is a pretty nice feature since you have speed + maneuverability plus the precision of bailing exactly where intended.

Assuming you're willing to waste the resources for it.

[Baron]

Assuming you're willing to waste the resources for it.

That's another point in a previous post in this same thread. I think the type of person who is whoring for K/D by bailing with HA will not care about empire resources

[Ratstomper]

That's another point in a previous post in this same thread. I think the type of person who is whoring for K/D by bailing with HA will not care about empire resources

Last I heard resources were divided amongst the players. He'll be using his own stash, not the empires.

[Xyntech]

From my earlier post...

It doesn't matter that a HA pilot will sacrifice flares for a bailing mechanism, of course they will and they won't care about flares. They are interested in neither air-to-air nor air-to-ground combat. They will use the plane as quick transport only to bail over the desired target area. They do not care about flares as they can safely just afterburn to location and then bail.

My biggest issue with HA+piloting is how it devalues the Galaxy. Having everyone in your squad bail over target in mossies ...still simultaneously...is a pretty nice feature since you have speed + maneuverability plus the precision of bailing exactly where intended.

This happened constantly in PS1 ... if you needed to get to a base quickly for a re-secure, your team pulled mossies, not a galaxy.

Right but here is what you are missing. LA will be as valuable in infantry combat as HA. Maybe not always in the same situations, but it won't be a clear upgrade from Agile to Rexo like in the first game.

So if HA is overpowered by being able to fly/bail, then every class will be.

Bailing from a fighter vs Galaxy dropping is a totally different discussion. It's an important one, and I want them to get it right, but it has nothing to do with HA.

We saw people bailing in agile all over the place in PS1. Agile was clearly an inferior armor in pretty much every way, yet people still took it just so that they could bail instead of wait for a Galaxy. HA won't be a clear upgrade over LA this time, since both will have strengths and weaknesses that the other can't match. Restricting HA from flying as some sort of band aid solution to prevent bailing instead of Gal dropping is not going to work. You will just end up with a bunch of LA or other classes doing the bailing instead of HA.

Sure the LA won't have heavy assault weapons this time around, but TTK's are faster and jump jets are going to more than make up for that loss, so it will be no more or less imbalanced if HA and LA can bail from fighters or if only LA can.

[Baron]

I understand the point you are making however in PS1 ...not being able to pilot as HA emphasized more of a meaning for a galaxy. As it stands now in PS2, the only benefit of bringing a galaxy would be 2 max units.

I think the system was fair in PS1: Rexo could pilot only open canopy type of vehicles (harasser, atv, skyguard, buggy)

[Kayos]

I'm all for HA's being able to pilot/drive as long as MAX's can't drive anything.
I hate in PS1 running up to a vehicle pad and not being able to get one because of the armor I was wearing. Waste of time having to run to an equipment terminal to change armor.

[super pretendo]

I agree with people talking about galaxy's being devalue'd. I'd like to see galaxy's being irreplaceable in terms of mass transport.

[Xyntech]

I understand the point you are making however in PS1 ...not being able to pilot as HA emphasized more of a meaning for a galaxy. As it stands now in PS2, the only benefit of bringing a galaxy would be 2 max units.

I think the system was fair in PS1: Rexo could pilot only open canopy type of vehicles (harasser, atv, skyguard, buggy)

But here's what I keep trying to emphasize:

Light Assault will be overpowered as bailers too.

In a base/tower fight in PS1, assuming even skill between players, Rexo beats Agile every time. In PS2, a good LA player will probably mop the floor with a good HA player in a lot of situations. And if it's bailers trying to shoot down their attackers that you're worried about, I'd be more concerned about LA myself. We all know how overpowered VS MAX jump jets were at dodging Reaver spam in PS1.

I'm all for making sure Galaxies stay important and valuable as drop ships, but it's really too early to say. We really need beta for that discussion, because we don't know if it is broken or not in the current design. All that we can do for now is state how we want it and think it should be. I want Galaxies to trump bailing from fighters for everyone but dedicated rapid responders.

Bottom line: If they make Galaxy dropping useful enough, it won't matter if HA can pilot aircraft or not. If they don't make Galaxy dropping useful enough, then every class will be overpowered as a pilot, not just HA.

I just can't see any good argument for discriminating against HA in this regard. This is not PS1.

[FuzzyandBlue]

I'm all for making sure Galaxies stay important and valuable as drop ships, but it's really too early to say. We really need beta for that discussion, because we don't know if it is broken or not in the current design. All that we can do for now is state how we want it and think it should be. I want Galaxies to trump bailing from fighters for everyone but dedicated rapid responders.

Bottom line: If they make Galaxy dropping useful enough, it won't matter if HA can pilot aircraft or not. If they don't make Galaxy dropping useful enough, then every class will be overpowered as a pilot, not just HA.

The galaxy does have one other use. It now acts as a mobile spawn/ resupply point. The faction specific aircraft don't. So for a base attack a galaxy drop followed by the pilot landing makes way more sense then 40 guys bailing out of Reavers/Mossies/Sythes.

[GuyFawkes]

Scythe , Mosquito , Reaver , Liberator , Galaxy.

I dont see HA in that list:lol:

[Littleman]

I've always viewed the Heavy Assault guys in Planetside 2 as akin to the Spartans of Halo. Killing machines in power armor, but not overly bulky armor.

In Planetside 1, they restricted Rexo because there were no classes. Forcing agile armor restricted the player of one weapon slot and a 3x9 section of inventory. Yet, they could still work in a med app, an engi tool, HA or AV, maybe both if they wanted to make some big sacrifices, etc.

In Planetside 2, the Heavy Assault guy isn't nearly as self-sustainable as the rexos of old. He has the glaring weakness of once his shield is gone, his health is next, and that doesn't regen outside of medical attention.

Additionally, just watching the videos, 1 guy could put him down fairly quickly with a rifle. Stampeding into a crowd rambo style might not be so viable a tactic this time around. ADAD saved the agiles in Planetside 1. I imagine SOE is trying to prevent that problem in the second iteration.