Joysticks with VTOLs

[Otleaz]

So I've been wondering for a while how joysticks would work since the aircraft in this game are all VTOL, especially with the Scythe.

I really want to know if there are any flight sim veterans or maybe just long time joystick users who can predict if joysticks will be viable... especially with that Scythe.

[Synapse]

Yes they will be viable and I bet they work a lot like helicopters in other games.

You sound like you've never heard of a VTOL craft being piloted by a joystick before.

[Otleaz]

Yes they will be viable and I bet they work a lot like helicopters in other games.

You sound like you've never heard of a VTOL craft being piloted by a joystick before.


No, I haven't. At least not viably.

[Synapse]

Are we talking real ones?

I could post you some harrier or f-35 cockpits with joysticks.

Or maybe some helicopter cockpits, all joysticks...


...or I could post you any of the last 20 vehicle games involving helicopters where people use joysticks.....or even the futuristic ones with vtol where people use joysticks as well....


Bottom line, everyone has been flying vtol with joysticks for years and you must have been under a rock. I guess thats good news for you. The devs even playtest with their own joysticks.

/thread

[Otleaz]

Are we talking real ones?

I could post you some harrier or f-35 cockpits with joysticks.

Or maybe some helicopter cockpits, all joysticks...


...or I could post you any of the last 20 vehicle games involving helicopters where people use joysticks.....or even the futuristic ones with vtol where people use joysticks as well....


Bottom line, everyone has been flying vtol with joysticks for years and you must have been under a rock. I guess thats good news for you. The devs even playtest with their own joysticks.

/thread

I can't imagine a scythe handling anything like a helicopter, which got me interested.

I also think it might be a bad idea to compare it to real life unless joysticks come with a complete cockpit nowadays.

[Kran De Loy]

The rest of the cockpit is just like the ball sack of an actual cock.
An essential part of the system and fun to play with, but by no means as important and the central control stick.

[SKYeXile]

The rest of the cockpit is just like the ball sack of an actual cock.
An essential part of the system and fun to play with, but by no means as important and the central control stick.

hrm good analogy, i would have gone with the ugly turd one though.

im not getting why it wouldn't work as vtol, its got a whole extra axis to play with.

[Kran De Loy]

hrm good analogy, i would have gone with the ugly turd one though.

im not getting why it wouldn't work as vtol, its got a whole extra axis to play with.

Yeah I figured that will have to be something like the pedals in a heli.

Or, from like more than 10 years ago I remember the joystick I had back than would also turn on it's axis left/right in addition of all the other normal stuff a joystick could do.

[SKYeXile]

Yeah I figured that will have to be something like the pedals in a heli.

Or, from like more than 10 years ago I remember the joystick I had back than would also turn on it's axis left/right in addition of all the other normal stuff a joystick could do.

no the twist axis you mentioned is the one i was referring to, its the Z axis. Yea its certainly not new.

[Synapse]

Yeah I figured that will have to be something like the pedals in a heli.

Or, from like more than 10 years ago I remember the joystick I had back than would also turn on it's axis left/right in addition of all the other normal stuff a joystick could do.

You're correct the twist is in most decent joysticks these days and works great as a tail rotor control.

The missing control from normal helicopter controls is collective, which thanks to ingame simplfication we basically use throttle to stand in for both throttle and collective.

[Zekeen]

So I've been wondering for a while how joysticks would work since the aircraft in this game are all VTOL, especially with the Scythe.

I really want to know if there are any flight sim veterans or maybe just long time joystick users who can predict if joysticks will be viable... especially with that Scythe.

I had an entire thread on joysticks, shot down by hobo pilots who preferred using mouses, but got a lot of good information from all the elitist joystick users. Higby himself and a large number of devs use joysticks. The game does have some odd controls, so plan ahead before you buy a joystick. There will be a button you need to hit to control upward thrust. If you don't hold it down, you will start to decline in altitude.

http://c.shld.net/rpx/i/s/pi/mp/7589/1964300801p?src=http%3A%2F%2Fcontent.etilize.com%2 F300%2F1012183431.jpg%3Fnoimage%3Dlogo&d=78edd5a97009ed4dfd26779f1c12a03bc6996827

I just ordered this joystick (like seconds ago), because it has a throttle for ease of movement along with the joystick, and a large grip button on the throttle I plan to use for vertical thrust.

The scythe will be hard, with a mouse being required to be picked up and placed down all the time, and the scythe being so agile and able to spin on a dime, yeah, you may have issues with ALL controls. But hey, that's what ya gotta deal with, being all purple and Vanu-y.

[Pillar of Armor]

I'm seriously considering getting this one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H0R624GHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

The only reason I haven't bought it yet is because I'm not sure if it will work with PS2.

[Sledgecrushr]

I havent bought a hota joystick yet but I will have one when the games start.

[Kran De Loy]

Yeah, I really need to get another joystick, or three since my brother and father will be playing too.

Also on a side note, mouse only really needs to get picked up frequently when you're operating at a lower sensitivity. Like I'm typically at 5700 DPI, which is as high as my mouse goes, but I have modes to drop it by 1000 at a time should I ever feel the need to for whatever reason. Had to slowly ramp up the DPI over the course of a few months.

Either way once you get used to that high sensitivity you'll notice that you just do not move your hand nearly as much.

[SKYeXile]

I'm seriously considering getting this one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H0R624GHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

The only reason I haven't bought it yet is because I'm not sure if it will work with PS2.

i think the throttle is rather weak, but the joystick maybe of use. we shall see anyhow.

[RSphil]

I'm seriously considering getting this one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H0R624GHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

The only reason I haven't bought it yet is because I'm not sure if it will work with PS2.

Had one of these for years. Great bit of kit and very customisable.

[Nemises]

I'm seriously considering getting this one:

The only reason I haven't bought it yet is because I'm not sure if it will work with PS2.

there is no doubt it will..
Devs have stated joysticks are supported..

X52 is just a Dx input device (I have one)..

whether the game supports additional Axis (ie the Throttles Z axis, or the various slider / rotatory axis) is another story...
Since we dont know whether the vehicles will support an analog throttle input, you might want to hold off..

..to be honest, I can't see any real advanatage (other than cool factor) for using a joystick, or hotas in this game..the vehicles will handle fine with mouse / keyboard, and they look arcadey enough for it to be disadvantageous to be "restricted" to a joystick..

...not trying to buzkill though...you cant really put a price on cool factor.

(you should really be looking at one of these for cool factor BTW, not the X52)

[MrKWalmsley]

Well I use joysticks all the time in games for various aircraft types. I only have the joystick though, not the throttle, so I use W and S for accelerate and decelerate, A and D for turning and Q and E for lift and fall. Then of course, the joystick itself is roll and yaw, with all of the functionality controls keyed into the triggers and buttons. Simples.

[RSphil]

Ye seen them sticks. But the x52 has done me
For years and is 1/4 the price of that lol. Plus I bet alot of them buttons only work with the a10 game it partners. Looks awesome though. Seen it in action and would love one tbh :)

If the aircraft like the helicopters in battlefield Vietnam ( the original one) then mouse and keyboard will be great.

[Baneblade]

What I want to know is if the vertical thrust can be controlled through an analog slider. If so, hovering will be possible again.

[xnorb]

PS3 controller, giving me 4 axis + 4 shoulder buttons.
Should be enough to control a chopper-like aircraft.
Sucks with anything jet-like, tho ;)

[MrKWalmsley]

In my opinion you can solve that by doing what I do, and that is hybridising my control system. Rather than it being mouse and keyboard vs joystick and throttle, I have keyboard and joystick. Basically taking the advantages of ease with a joystick over a mouse, and combining them with the versatility and the familiarity of the keyboard, over a very strict implement like a throttle.

[Frotang]

I want to use a steering wheel and pedals for my sunderer.

[Brusi]

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRMMG1ckHgVxW1mONSicoY2u5OhL4t_p pMo7FNg6ZBr2LPkosLPJ1k0bhs_

[Trafalgar]

The scythe will be hard, with a mouse being required to be picked up and placed down all the time

Did you play PS2 at E3, or talk to someone who did, or are you just assuming?

There are better mouse flight control models than 'vehicle pitches/yaws when you move the mouse', such as having the vehicle move towards the mouse, with the distance from screen center determining how fast it turns, having a 'dead zone' in the center of the screen, and the mouse cursor showing as a visible circle (which also determines where you are shooting). Rolling is likely implemented with another set of controls (keyboard, or mousewheel), unless you switch it to horizontal mouse movement and put yaw on something else instead (editing the controls).

[Baneblade]

PS1 did the mouse part right, the flight physics were the problem.

[Zekeen]

Did you play PS2 at E3, or talk to someone who did, or are you just assuming?

There are better mouse flight control models than 'vehicle pitches/yaws when you move the mouse', such as having the vehicle move towards the mouse, with the distance from screen center determining how fast it turns, having a 'dead zone' in the center of the screen, and the mouse cursor showing as a visible circle (which also determines where you are shooting). Rolling is likely implemented with another set of controls (keyboard, or mousewheel), unless you switch it to horizontal mouse movement and put yaw on something else instead (editing the controls).

I completely forgot they all used a mouse in E3! Good point. But I said it would be hard, not impossible. Generally it depends on how good the guy manning the controls are though. A mouse is more precise in a lot of ways, and held back in many ways too. The placing of a mouse over and over gets REALLY tough in a dog fight in game, my hand just can't keep up with the reflexes for it, making joysticks much better for extended engagements. A mouse will be much more twitchy and better for precise aiming of small target, while a joystick is going to be better more agile movements and the like. I think each have their trade offs, but I'm going for the joystick with throttle for a better experience that I think will be more fun than with a mouse and give me better button setups. It just hurts your hands less when in high adrenal situations.

[QuantumMechanic]

I'm hoping the flight mechanics in PS2 are difficult enough to motivate people to dust off their joysticks and use them. I never could properly fly a helicopter in BFBC2 until I gave in and got a joystick.

After seeing so many planes crashing into cliffsides at the E3 demo I'm hopeful. It was also nice to see that flying the liberator appears to be more difficult than flying the empire-specific fighters, and flying the galaxy seems to be even more difficult than the liberator.

We won't know until we try of course. I've been using my joystick for flying in PS1 lately... with no great effect. I find it more fun than mouse but I'm not as accurate as I am with the mouse.

Scythe pilots should be forced to fly with one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K72337US-Orbit-Trackball-Scroll/dp/B002OOWB3O/

[maradine]

Scythe pilots should be forced to fly with one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-K72337US-Orbit-Trackball-Scroll/dp/B002OOWB3O/

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/485185897/trackball-pc-game-controller

[FastAndFree]

i think the throttle is rather weak, but the joystick maybe of use. we shall see anyhow.

Hilariously, I have that model and only use the throttle in PS1. I tried aiming with the stick but I just suck with it. I wonder if it's my or Planetside's fault

[Zar]

I'm seriously considering getting this one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H0R624GHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

The only reason I haven't bought it yet is because I'm not sure if it will work with PS2.

things a piece of shit >.< waste of money it will break like 2 week's in

[Pillar of Armor]

there is no doubt it will..
Devs have stated joysticks are supported..

X52 is just a Dx input device (I have one)..

whether the game supports additional Axis (ie the Throttles Z axis, or the various slider / rotatory axis) is another story...
Since we dont know whether the vehicles will support an analog throttle input, you might want to hold off..

..to be honest, I can't see any real advanatage (other than cool factor) for using a joystick, or hotas in this game..the vehicles will handle fine with mouse / keyboard, and they look arcadey enough for it to be disadvantageous to be "restricted" to a joystick..

...not trying to buzkill though...you cant really put a price on cool factor.

(you should really be looking at one of these (http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-Hotas-Warthog-Joystick-2960720/dp/B00419ZUXS/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1340107270&sr=8-4&keywords=warthog)for cool factor BTW, not the X52)

The hotas looks BA. I think I want the joystick for fun more than anything else. I seriously hope they they support analog throttle and z axis movement because that's what I want the joystick for the most. In PS1 the number keys were mapped to a percentage of the vehicle's throttle (1 = 10% - 0 = 100%). I made use of that heavily because keyboard control (W key) of throttle is garbage. I was able to outmaneuver reavers with a lib using some fancy throttle and z axis manipulation and it will be easier and much more fun with joystick control.

When the game hits beta I'll probably give it a shot with my xbox controller before I grab the fancy joystick.

[FastAndFree]

things a piece of shit >.< waste of money it will break like 2 week's in

Been using the throttle for a few months now (stick not so much) and it's fine. Although there is some pot fluctuation at certain positions on both the throttle and the flap slider. Got it replaced, and it was the same. I presume it's an issue with the entire line

[Sotonian]

i will probably use a 360 control pad like i do in BF3

[Mirax]

I can't wait to try out the air vehicles. This thread makes it sound like there will be a separate control for up/down thrust vs forward/brake thrust... and nobody knows whether analog throttles will work (for either one)

[Bravix]

In regard to how VTOL would work, it works fine in Arma II. VTOL jets simply fly around and, when you want to VTOL, you click a button and it goes into VTOL mode. Pretty simple.

[MrMorton]

So I've been wondering for a while how joysticks would work since the aircraft in this game are all VTOL, especially with the Scythe.

I really want to know if there are any flight sim veterans or maybe just long time joystick users who can predict if joysticks will be viable... especially with that Scythe.

here is how I am going to try to bind it.

x axis is going to be strafing

y axis is going to be pitch

z axis is going to be yaw

right/left mouse buttons are going to be roll

mousewheel for accelerator (all the way from full reverse to full forward), since I imagine I will be changing speed too much to be using my joystick's throttle

middle mouse button is break

mouselook

then joystick buttons for shooting/ab/flares etc.

[MrKWalmsley]

If we are going to get into recommendations of joysticks, I have one for those people out there who are either un-willing or can't afford to pay $400 on a joystick, like me. Its a standard one, which I am going to get soon:
Cyborg F.L.Y 5
http://www.productwiki.com/upload/images/cyborg_fly_5_flight_stick.jpg
Cheap as chips, around £30 in the UK. Although I have the feeling a majority of the guys here have $400 to blow! I have used it quite a bit round my friends house on Project Reality, which requires a quite precise joystick, and I got used to it pretty quick.

[DanNC]

In regard to how VTOL would work, it works fine in Arma II. VTOL jets simply fly around and, when you want to VTOL, you click a button and it goes into VTOL mode. Pretty simple.

It sounds like you're going to have to hold down or constantly press the ascend button in order to hover at the same altitude. I prefer how it was in PS where it would hover automatically for the aircraft and only ascend or descend if you press the corresponding button.

[maradine]

You're going to get about the same utility from a $30 stick as a $400 HOTAS setup in Planetside 2. The vast majority of the HOTAS functionality will go wasted when there are a third as many possible keystrokes as input mechanisms.

I still have a $20 Logitech stick for when I can't be bothered with the 30 minutes (seriously) of getting the full Thrustmaster rig properly set up. I suspect I'll be using it a lot for PS2.

[Haro]

http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/Microsoft-SidewinderFF2.jpg
If PS2 supports it (which I hope it will) I plan on dusting off my old sidewinder. Still works after 10 years.

[Eyeklops]

Too bad they don't make these anymore
http://dl.maximumpc.com/galleries/50peripherals/SpaceOrb_sm.jpg

I think flying the scythe with this would be cool. I never owned one, but heard many great things about the Space Orb 360 being used in Descent.

[Gonefshn]

Too bad they don't make these anymore
http://dl.maximumpc.com/galleries/50peripherals/SpaceOrb_sm.jpg

I think flying the scythe with this would be cool. I never owned one, but heard many great things about the Space Orb 360 being used in Descent.

That looks like it would play like a shooter with a trackball mouse hahaha.

Joysticks never interested me much I found them more difficult to use. Maybe with practice not so though.

[Neksar]

1. How the heck does that orb work? I am googling it as we speak.

2. I've never flown with a joystick, but I want to start for this game. I think the main reason I'll miss sancs is because I'd want to practice flying in VR training.

[RSphil]

things a piece of shit >.< waste of money it will break like 2 week's in

iv had mine for many years and never given me any bother yet

[Rendar]

I'm seriously considering getting this one:

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51H0R624GHL._SL500_AA300_.jpg

The only reason I haven't bought it yet is because I'm not sure if it will work with PS2.

Thats the joystick that I have. Bought it for space in SWG and then used it in BF3.

One thing I did like it about. Is that the there was an option on the throttle so it kinda hanged at like 10%, like an artificial stop. And anything below that was reverse. So if you pulled the throttle all the way down in like BF3, it was same as holding S on the keyboard, so that was the vertical take off part. Then you just threw the throttle forward past the little "sticky" point and it was normal 0-100% throttle