A weak point

[windlord]

I'm a graphic designer/Artist of 20 years.

Now I know that this is a subjective call. Furthermore I realise that for this next phase of Planetside this isn't going to change. Mostly due to the logistics.

However an opinion is just that.

I think that the guys really should have looked at the faction logos. I think the NC one is Ok however the other two really are poor. I would expect something like that from a first year arts student.

Considering just how pivotal these designs are to the rest of the game I would've thought that these designs really could have been reworked and improved to reflect the awesome qualities that the rest of the game exhibits.

Just my 2 cents.
:eek:

[AvacadoEight]

Im okay with them. Don't necessarily think there's anything wrong with them. But that's just my opinion.

[Baron]

Excuse me sir ...

but I have been an internet troll for over 20 years

wait a sec, I need to call Al Gore and ask how old is the internets :p

[The Kush]

I think the logos are great but like you said everyone has an opinion.

[Eyeklops]

Are you blind? Obviously the VS emblem is the best looking and the TR & NC are shit. Get it right. T-ray come in here and set this man straight.

[lolroflroflcake]

What would you do to improve them, I don't see anything wrong with them and you don't need to be a graphic designer to judge such things.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Now some FNG wants to change the fucking logos? What the hell?

[AvacadoEight]

Are you blind? Obviously the VS emblem is the best looking and the TR & NC are shit. Get it right. T-ray come in here and set this man straight.

Ohhh no. At least our logo isn't a Y letter WANNABE!


( That was pathetic D: )

[Zulthus]

Really? Seriously? For real? Honestly?



That's like saying the U.S Flag is really boring and unimaginative, and that it doesn't reflect how great we are. After all, I could make it in 1 minute on Paint.

[Graywolves]

I love the TR symbol, I've even considered having it tattooed on my person.

[FPClark]

Remember when that one country changed their flag because some self-proclaimed graphic designer said it looked bad? Oh yeah me neither.

[AThreatToYou]

let's be honest here

the TR emblem is simple, professional and badass

the VS emblem is cool too, if your VS, otherwise it's a turd

but the NC emblem being "good"? Are you kidding me? That thing is an atrocious insult to art. It looks like a goddam coin not something you'd put on a flag/wall/armor.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Really? Seriously? For real? Honestly?



That's like saying the U.S Flag is really boring and unimaginative, and that it doesn't reflect how great we are. After all, I could make it in 1 minute on Paint.

It is boring and unimaginative... but it's associated with 200+ years of great deeds, unspeakable horrors, and everything in between. You don't fuck with history.

[Zulthus]

It is boring and unimaginative... but it's associated with 200+ years of great deeds, unspeakable horrors, and everything in between. You don't fuck with history.

Well that was pretty much my point. History and sentimental value.

[lMABl]

I enjoy your vanity. You are welcome into the Vanu Sovereignty.
:rofl:

[waldizzo]

The logos were carried over from the original game. They're basic but instantly identifiable, just like a lot of popular logos in use today.

[Synapse]

He is of course right, the logos are pretty bad.

And everyone else is right that they won't change due to tradition.

[Hmr85]

Is the op being serious?? I think the logos look great.

On a separate note, what the hell is happening to these forums you newer guys keep trying to pick away at my beloved PS.

[waldizzo]

He is of course right, the logos are pretty bad.

And everyone else is right that they won't change due to tradition.


Victory is our tradition.

[Arovien]

I would say the NC emblem has more going on. Personally my fav is the TR one, obviously :), yet none is lacking over the others.

[lolroflroflcake]

let's be honest here

the TR emblem is simple, professional and badass

the VS emblem is cool too, if your VS, otherwise it's a turd

but the NC emblem being "good"? Are you kidding me? That thing is an atrocious insult to art. It looks like a goddam coin not something you'd put on a flag/wall/armor.

Its symbolism, the NC are all slaves to corporate greed.

[Graywolves]

Victory is our tradition.

Loyalty until Death!

[AThreatToYou]

Its symbolism, the NC are all slaves to corporate greed.

i just got owned

[windlord]

How would I fix them? Fair question.

Now I've been very gentle in my subjective educated opinion as I realise that everyone is an art director.

Ok firstly if you look at the NC logo you'll see the application of tone on the eagle device. Secondly you'll notice that the NC has two primary colours.

Obviously the composition of the main elements of the other two factions logos needs to be retained. However the basic stucture of the logos can be layered whereby an amount of detail can be added in, augmenting the detail to match that of the NC.

Then secondary and tertiary image enhancements could be added such as tone and texture. This would also allow secondary colours to be added to the logos.

I would offer to do it but it is the head designer/Art directors call. I know what it's like to be in a busy studio and to hear an opinion at the end of a project. Irritating at best I know, exasperating at the least.

So I can deal with it as is. however it's certainly something worthy of consideration.

[Zulthus]

How would I fix them? Fair question.

Now I've been very gentle in my subjective educated opinion as I realise that everyone is an art director.

Ok firstly if you look at the NC logo you'll see the application of tone on the eagle device. Secondly you'll notice that the NC has two primary colours.

Obviously the composition of the main elements of the other two factions logos needs to be retained. However the basic stucture of the logos can be layered whereby an amount of detail can be added in, augmenting the detail to match that of the NC.

Then secondary and tertiary image enhancements could be added such as tone and texture. This would also allow secondary colours to be added to the logos.

I would offer to do it but it is the head designer/Art directors call. I know what it's like to be in a busy studio and to hear an opinion at the end of a project. Irritating at best I know, exasperating at the least.

So I can deal with it as is. however it's certainly something worthy of consideration.

You should post some examples of what you'd like to see improved in the logos.

[zomg]

I for one think it would be fun to see what kind of logos you could come up with yourself. Do it, just for fun :)

Personally I sort of see what this guy is talking about. Considering the NC logo is the most "designed" - it's the most complex - so obviously it would be the most pleasing to someone who looks for that sort of thing. On the other hand, the other logos have quite clear iconography in my opinion, so I would not go as far as call them poor or anything.

[Mr DeCastellac]

Really? Seriously? For real? Honestly?



That's like saying the U.S Flag is really boring and unimaginative, and that it doesn't reflect how great we are. After all, I could make it in 1 minute on Paint.

I hate to be disrespectful to the OP, since he was very nice about it being just his opinion and all... but I think this metaphor is accurate.

The empire logos have been around more than 9 years and have been prominently featured in Planetside 2 (obviously, since they're the empire logos :p). Even if it was feasible to redesign them and replace them, including putting something in the lore about "A graphic designer of 20 years conducted a meeting between the TR and VS, wherein their signature logos were changed", the Planetside veterans including myself would be outraged.

Just look at this forum. Anything that was broken in the first game, we want fixed in the second. Anything that was fine in the first, we don't want changed. Primarily, due to tradition.

There was a large complaint thread about how they changed the voice chat button from V to B. How do you think people will react when the empire they're loyal to changes the logo they've come to know and love?

[WNxThentar]

I'm a graphic designer/Artist of 20 years.

Now I know that this is a subjective call. Furthermore I realise that for this next phase of Planetside this isn't going to change. Mostly due to the logistics.

However an opinion is just that.

I think that the guys really should have looked at the faction logos. I think the NC one is Ok however the other two really are poor. I would expect something like that from a first year arts student.

Considering just how pivotal these designs are to the rest of the game I would've thought that these designs really could have been reworked and improved to reflect the awesome qualities that the rest of the game exhibits.

Just my 2 cents.
:eek:


Yup and in Australia 2 cents is worth nothing. The logos are from the first game and I personally have no problem with any of them but if you want to stick your nose up at them then by all means join NC because you feel that way.

[windlord]

Lol if I were a single man I'd offer to rework it.

Besides I don't really do graphics for free.

And furthermore any moderately experienced designer should know what to do.

It's a relatively simple brief and execution, which is why I'm surprised it wasn't really done.

Lastly I understand everyones position and I respect that. I'm just offering my opinion. Cheers.

[Blackwolf]

I'm a graphic designer/Artist of 20 years.

Now I know that this is a subjective call. Furthermore I realise that for this next phase of Planetside this isn't going to change. Mostly due to the logistics.

However an opinion is just that.

I think that the guys really should have looked at the faction logos. I think the NC one is Ok however the other two really are poor. I would expect something like that from a first year arts student.

Considering just how pivotal these designs are to the rest of the game I would've thought that these designs really could have been reworked and improved to reflect the awesome qualities that the rest of the game exhibits.

Just my 2 cents.
:eek:

I suppose I see what you mean. TR and VS logos are pretty much opposites of each other while the NC logo is the unique one among them. Psychologically speaking this could be why the NC are the most hated faction ever.

Seriously, put 3 people in a room and 2 will gang up on the third for whatever similarities or differences present. Even two people who disagree with each other will gang up on a 3rd if they find some common ground on which to stand, and the similarities between logos is common enough.

Or it could be that this is a game and we're giving this way to much thought. What do you think?

How would I fix them? Fair question.

Now I've been very gentle in my subjective educated opinion as I realise that everyone is an art director.

Ok firstly if you look at the NC logo you'll see the application of tone on the eagle device. Secondly you'll notice that the NC has two primary colours.

Obviously the composition of the main elements of the other two factions logos needs to be retained. However the basic stucture of the logos can be layered whereby an amount of detail can be added in, augmenting the detail to match that of the NC.

Then secondary and tertiary image enhancements could be added such as tone and texture. This would also allow secondary colours to be added to the logos.

I would offer to do it but it is the head designer/Art directors call. I know what it's like to be in a busy studio and to hear an opinion at the end of a project. Irritating at best I know, exasperating at the least.

So I can deal with it as is. however it's certainly something worthy of consideration.

You've got good points. Despite my little jest I did get what you were driving at. This explanation cleared it up better though :)

Lemme take a whack at it...

[Aesir]

Actually, there seems to be quite some thought in the logos.

The TR logo looks solid, it represents strength by submitting yourself for the greater good, demonstrated by the stick figure with it's hands down but the line above it pointing up.

While the VS logo put's both hands up, like someone rejoicing, with the circle to show unity, a common goal.

For the NC logo, their prime motto is freedom, which is symbolized through the eagle and it's wings.

Atleast that's what I see in them.

[Zenben]

Ya know, there are a lot of logos (McDonalds, Ford, Mercedes, Coca Cola, etc.) that aren't very imaginative, but they represent brand recognition, and to change them would be just about the dumbest thing a company could do.

[kaffis]

That's kind of funny, OP. I actually find the NC logo to be the weakest of the three.

[Maticus]

I'm a graphic designer/Artist of 20 years.

Now I know that this is a subjective call. Furthermore I realise that for this next phase of Planetside this isn't going to change. Mostly due to the logistics.

However an opinion is just that.

I think that the guys really should have looked at the faction logos. I think the NC one is Ok however the other two really are poor. I would expect something like that from a first year arts student.

Considering just how pivotal these designs are to the rest of the game I would've thought that these designs really could have been reworked and improved to reflect the awesome qualities that the rest of the game exhibits.

Just my 2 cents.
:eek:


I was always taught, don't complain about something unless you have an idea on how to improve it.

[windlord]

Lol all comments appreciated.

And for anyone who cares I plan on joining VS. To me its about the gameplay.

But it's also about selling the game. I want this to succeed and graphics is what i do. Hence my post.

[ZeeGermans]

As an artist, I say they look fine.

Each logo looks completely different and can be recognized from a good distance away, which is important.

Aesthetically they function quite well.

The Vanu Sovereignty's logo is very sleek, it almost looks like an alien's face. It could even represent a human form with arms outstretched ready to embrace the enlightenment that only technological purity can offer.

The New Conglomerate's logo is bold, robust, it has weight. The imagery of an eagle and a star project the idea of freedom or at least national pride. Many nations use both symbols in their nation's iconography.

The Terran Republic's logo is simple, strong, and imposing. A central pillar dominates the overall form. Diagonal lines force the viewer's eyes upward toward the top. Authority is what this logo commands.

and that is not even discussing the color choices used.

Of course, that's just my take on this...

-cheers

[Aractain]

Is that guy complaining about our TR logo? Isn't that against some kind of law? Shouldn't we report him to the enforcement services?

[Aesir]

As an artist, I say they look fine.

Each logo looks completely different and can be recognized from a good distance away, which is important.

Aesthetically they function quite well.

The Vanu Sovereignty's logo is very sleek, it almost looks like an alien's face. It could even represent a human form with arms outstretched ready to embrace the enlightenment that only technological purity can offer.

The New Conglomerate's logo is bold, robust, it has weight. The imagery of an eagle and a star project the idea of freedom or at least national pride. Many nations use both symbols in their nation's iconography.

The Terran Republic's logo is simple, strong, and imposing. A central pillar dominates the overall form. Diagonal lines force the viewer's eyes upward toward the top. Authority is what this logo commands.

and that is not even discussing the color choices used.

Of course, that's just my take on this...

-cheers

I agree on your take, it's a mainly more detailed version of what I saw in them some posts further.

And I'm no artist, well maybe a wannabe one :lol:

[Brusi]

so, as long as there is talk of changing flags...?

http://i.imgur.com/I9gYr.jpg

[Aesir]

so, as long as there is talk of changing flags...?

You either should have used a Reaver or old Soviet flag to make this right :D

[Blackwolf]

You either should have used a Reaver or old Soviet flag to make this right :D

I think that's the silhouette of a Predator UCAV, not a Mig.

[Aesir]

I think that's the silhouette of a Predator UCAV, not a Mig.

Which has a very similar silhouette to a Mosquito, my bad, wings, landing gear and so on, should have seen it.

[ZeeGermans]

I agree on your take, it's a mainly more detailed version of what I saw in them some posts further.

And I'm no artist, well maybe a wannabe one :lol:

Man, I am a slow at putting my thoughts into words... This thread was one reply in on the second page when I started typing. You totally summed up what I was thinking before I even wrote it... very nice.

I think we are in agreement then :)

[Envenom]

All I see in the TR logo is beauty. Raw. Pure. Naked. Beauty.

[xnorb]

I hope i don't get banned for this ...
(If i am, then this forum isn't worth it anyways)

The most remembered, most emotional and most powerful "logo" of the 20th century:

http://www.hossank.com/forum/images/swastika.jpg

6 rectangles - could have been done by a 4 year old ...

Logos, emblems, flags - they don't need to be super complex.
Actually the less complexity the better.
I expected a designer/artist to know that ...

[Mr DeCastellac]

And for anyone who cares I plan on joining VS. To me its about the gameplay.

You are a wise man, indeed.

We welcome you with open arms.

Hail Vanu.
Technology Equals Might.

[Pella]

Well lets see what the OP can produce with his graphic designer/Artist of 20 years under his belt.

And we will be the judge.

Good luck.

[Captain1nsaneo]

I'm kind of disappointed with how Wind's being treated here. Is he wrong about the logos? Yes. But it's mainly for political rather than artistic reasons. There's no need to nipping at him even if he did give out the freebie with the "20 years" addition.

Personally, they're all radically different from each other in color and shape thus being able to easily identify them at range. Being able to separate targets out quickly is really what you want in these symbols. Beyond that anything is really window dressing. I don't fully understand what you're after in not being able to add details to them. I might just not understand but I don't see any impediment in adding more detail inside the lines that already exist. If you've seen the Warhammer40k Chaos symbols you've probably seen them as both simple lines and as detailed artworks with contorted faces and rough texture. I don't see why you couldn't do something similar with the current symbols if you wanted to make fancier versions (e.g. adding circuits to the teal bits in the VS logo). But for simple promotion the symbols should be as clean as possible that way new players don't get confused by seeing a simpler version in game.

Once thing that this has brought to mind is that the symbols do lack one thing ever so much:
Names.
Right now it's just NC Logo, VS Logo, and TR Logo. They need some proper monikers.

[windlord]

Yeah I'm a bit dissapointed too.

I approached the topic with open arms and honesty, fully admitting that I'm not definitely right but asserting my opinion.

Guys, I don't know about you but I don't simply have the time. Maybe later. And too many times as an artist have either people taken my work for granted or outright stolen it. Or worse.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion and I thought the distraction from waiting for Beta might be a little more appreciated. I keep hearing how this is a great community I look forward to seeing it.

[Pella]

I'm kind of disappointed with how Wind's being treated here. Is he wrong about the logos? Yes. But it's mainly for political rather than artistic reasons. There's no need to nipping at him even if he did give out the freebie with the "20 years" addition.

Personally, they're all radically different from each other in color and shape thus being able to easily identify them at range. Being able to separate targets out quickly is really what you want in these symbols. Beyond that anything is really window dressing. I don't fully understand what you're after in not being able to add details to them. I might just not understand but I don't see any impediment in adding more detail inside the lines that already exist. If you've seen the Warhammer40k Chaos symbols you've probably seen them as both simple lines and as detailed artworks with contorted faces and rough texture. I don't see why you couldn't do something similar with the current symbols if you wanted to make fancier versions (e.g. adding circuits to the teal bits in the VS logo). But for simple promotion the symbols should be as clean as possible that way new players don't get confused by seeing a simpler version in game.

Once thing that this has brought to mind is that the symbols do lack one thing ever so much:
Names.
Right now it's just NC Logo, VS Logo, and TR Logo. They need some proper monikers.

Yes. But op failed to understand that these had to be implemented in a game in 2003. On 1000s of objects and moving tanks and such.

So they have to look somewhat simple otherwise they would just be a a small blob. The same principle would apply to PS2.

[Nemises]

I love the TR symbol, I've even considered having it tattooed on my person.

You have a Person?...sweet!

[windlord]

@Pella.

No I didn't fail to understand that. It's stated in my first post.

[Captain1nsaneo]

I love the TR symbol, I've even considered having it tattooed on my person.

http://i47.tinypic.com/iw16wj.jpg

Not mine.

[PsychoXR-20]

Logos, symbols, icons, whatever you want to all them, are visual representations of an idea or a concept.

By definition they almost need to be simple, discernible and easily recognizable.

The NC is geometrically a fairly simple shape, it's a circle, with an eagles head and some gear teeth, nothing that a simple stencil couldn't accomplish. But add in the different color layers, and the gradients, then imagine having to paint that only every single object the NC owned from a soldiers armor to a Vanguard's hull, a Reaver's chassis and Gauss Rifles, and it would be a nightmare.

At it's core these symbols should be very simple, the more complex they get (not just for real life technical issues with textures) the harder they are to distinguish at a distance or at a glance.

You say this is something you would expect from a first year art student, I think it shows a good understanding of what makes a good symbol that the original artist(s) was able to hold back and keep it simple and real.

[I SandRock]

Vanu one is sci-fi jesus nailed to the cross with a halo on his ass, how awesome do you want it?

[HenchAnt]

Personally, without being a designer, I think that the OP gets it somewhat wrong.

His observation that the NC logo is two-colored and way more detailed is correct, as well as the notion that it differs in this respect from the other two faction logos. While this level of detail might be more advanced from a design point of view, it's also the reason why the NC logo is too busy and fails most as a symbol.

It's not about design, it's about heraldry in a way. The NC logo is nothing that's easily imprinted somewhere, since it doesn't lean itself to a single color scheme. It's nothing people can spraypaint as a grafiti to mark their loyalty.

Just look at Star Wars or Star Trek to get some great faction logo design. Simple is better.

http://georgecoghill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/rebel-small.pnghttp://georgecoghill.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/imperial-small.png

And I actually really like what they did with the TR and VS.

To me, the TR logo has something of a rocket. This "unite behind a comon goal to get humanity forward" aspect. It really works.

To me, the VS logo looks like a crystalized interpretation of Rolls Royce' Spirit of Ecstasy (http://api.*********/files/PA2yrZeoc63MKBgar01tyh07IULtvs31S59oAddTPkcPcqeZQQ 8ZkK8-gC2XKmHkHCq1kStNYeWb9SRDZXJw9auY8ciALoG8/byChristianJansky2.jpg). Very fitting for an ideology that wants to advance humanity through technology.

But, to me, the NC logo in itself is ... uninspired. Some random, disfiguring, interpretation of eagle and star. While it does its job, and over time has gathered enough has tradition and emotion to actually represent the faction, I still consider it the weakest design. It still looks like something an overzealous design student came up with to show off his skill, and not like something that's supposed to represent and unite thousands of people. (But then again: According to Planetside2 lore, it was created by a company's marketing department. So in a way, it's very fitting. :rofl:)

Though, what irks me most about the faction logos and Planetside 2: NC got a round logo but use angular designs. And the TR have the most angular logo, yet use rounded designs.
Yes, it's "historically grown" this way, and it wouldn´t make much sense to change it. But still... :D

[Toppopia]

I like how the TR looks, and as people have mentioned, the NC does look the most detailed, and VS looks simple which is effective, but i think the TR logo looks amazing.

[RSphil]

logos look good to me. dont think i have ever seen a flashy logo for any force. look at the worlds forces logos. all simple. imo planetside 2 logos are good. :)

[Grapes]

I think the NC logo is great, the TR is OK, while the Vanu one is very bland... It's a tiny Y with a little circle around it. Could've at least made it a little thicker and more detailed

[Sabot]

No country or company in the world has a complex flag/logo with lots of textures, layers, colors or effects... they are made simple with 2-3 colors for easy recognition.. look at Microsofts logo, or Apples or McDonalds or Nike... sooo incredibly simple logos. The USA probably have one of the most complex flags in the world... most are just a one colored background with some doodles or a cross in another color ontop of that.

Point is... they're made to be recognized, not flashy. And the PS logos are just grand.

[FuzzyandBlue]

Yeah I'm a bit dissapointed too.

I approached the topic with open arms and honesty, fully admitting that I'm not definitely right but asserting my opinion.

Guys, I don't know about you but I don't simply have the time. Maybe later. And too many times as an artist have either people taken my work for granted or outright stolen it. Or worse.

Everyone's entitled to an opinion and I thought the distraction from waiting for Beta might be a little more appreciated. I keep hearing how this is a great community I look forward to seeing it.

I understand what you were saying. You probably already said this in another post but I didn't feel like reading through all the "OMG WTF NEWB, PS logos r teh best".

I like the general design of all three logos. Each one represents the factions ideology and the faction colors. I don't think the OP was calling for completely different logos, but rather sprucing then up just a little bit.

There has been talk about flags so I'll use an example from that. Lets take a US flag, we can add gold or silver tassels around the edges, we can put it on a bronze flag pole, and these things make the flag have a fancier look without changing the core concept behind the flag.

OP I would love to see you do something with the logos even if they're not used. 20 years of experience is no small thing.

Edit: Turns out most of the bad post were on the first page. Lot of good post in this thread.

[Vanath]

It's amazing how quickly this degenerated into insulting each other over OPINIONS. Chances are will will run into someone with a different opinion to yours and while you're perfectly entitled to disagree with them you should not start insulting them for having said opinion.

The logos being very simple for use on the battlefield or other situations where they need to be easily identifiable is great but there is no reason there can't also be stylized versions of the logos that are used in other situations. From what I've read he has no intention of changing the logos, he just wants to make them a bit more detailed.

[kaffis]

To elaborate on my impressions and attitudes towards the emblems...

The TR emblem is the best. Bold, iconic, simple, and effective. The triangular background and bold red color gives it weight and the size necessary to identify it instantly. The black design in the center brings to mind a sword buried in the base of the triangle, which brings to mind the might and threat of force behind the TR government. It's the best emblem of the three, instantly recognizable and drawing on the background of the faction.

The VS emblem isn't much worse. From an inspiration standpoint, it's excellent -- the diamonds form a crudely (alien-esque?) implied humanoid form, lifting its arms to the sky. It seems aspirational, or like it's depicting the figure's ascendence, which, again, captures the essence of the Vanu deliciously. Where it suffers is from a design standpoint. It's a thin and spindly design, and the open circle behind it fails to give it heft and weight the way the TR triangle does. It's the hardest emblem to spot and make out at a distance, or when it's very small. Fantastic concept, underwhelming execution.

The NC logo is the poorest conceived, so its quality is mixed. From that design standpoint, it's mostly good. Like the TR, the colors are bold, the surface area to which they're applied is prominent. It's quite recognizable, which is good. However, it's a little busy, what with the numerous notches around the edge (quick, I want you to draw it for me -- how many notches are around the edge?), the overly-subtle yellow-on-yellow star in the center, and the reliance on very Western connotations and associations with stars and eagles to attempt to convey the empire's attitude and character. Where the inspiration for the design of the other two empires' emblems draw on universal themes and symbolism, I've always worried that the NC emblem relies too much on an association with American symbols.

[Hobitt]

The logos are great very simple which most of real life military organizations use and used

http://www.hollandbarstool.com/documents/image/Logos/Military/us-air-force-logo.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7d/Red_army_conscript_hat_insignia.jpg
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120109190514/hitlerparody/images/0/0d/Wehrmacht_Logo.png
http://www.isdrecords.com/store/images/ss-forgien-flag001.jpg

[Nasher]

Who cares if someone didn't pay a "logo designer" a ridiculous amount of money to make it. Logo is a logo, as long as people remember it and it looks unique it's good.