10 second respawn time

[super pretendo]

I clocked it from the E3 video. I am happy to see there IS in fact any respawn time at all, but 10 seconds to come back doesn't seem like it makes death much of a consideration at all. Taking out someone doesn't seem to satisfying or even important, since they just pop right back out in a few seconds. What does everyone think?

I hope they make it something like 20 seconds. Not disruptive to people wanting to get back into the action, but it will make those same people think for a moment before rushing in headlong ad nauseam.

An alternative to a 20 second respawn time is a ticket system, where having many respawns has a negative effect on the player and/or faction that is constantly dying.

[SKYeXile]

i Imagine galaxys as repsawn points wont be as common as AMS's meaning that people will meanly rely on fixed, base, tower or outpost spawns. depending on where the fighting is between these points it could take considerable time to get back to the fight if you don't squad spawn. 10s is acceptable.

also ticket system is open to exploits, a faction should not be punished because they have players been farmed.

[Stardouser]

Death is its own penalty. It should be 15-20 second standard, but that has NOTHING to do with making people slow down, or think, or anything like that. And considering that the 10 second respawn is NOT for squad spawning, that means by default, there is a long runback every death. What beta needs to do is figure out how low we can get the squad spawn reuse timer, it should be as low as possible. If people want to play aggressively they should be allowed to. And if they want to play slow and cautiously that should be allowed too.

[Sirisian]

Did you notice where they are respawning each time and the long counters for certain respawns? Also remember this was during a special E3 demo. I wouldn't trust anything until beta. That's when the actual testing and fine tuning will be happening with more players.

[super pretendo]

that use of that alien guy meme in this situation doesn't even make sense. Apparently image + text does not equal comedy gold

Anyway, I know it could change, but I am wondering about the design direction in terms of this. Do we have reason to believe it will change?

[Zulthus]

Did you notice where they are respawning each time and the long counters for certain respawns? Also remember this was during a special E3 demo. I wouldn't trust anything until beta. That's when the actual testing and fine tuning will be happening with more players.

Maybe you're thinking about the squad spawn?

[The Kush]

http://i.imgur.com/zJvzM.jpg

This is when I will decide. But yea I think it should be decently long

[AvacadoEight]

Aye, that and, if your team doesn't have a galaxy or a forwards respawn point, there's no way for them to get back into the base quickly. The E3 demo had those points because it needed to focus the action.

Once one side starts loosing, they'll feel it. Trust me. And with a 2-4 minute respawn timer for the Squad Spawn, plus the huge flaming drop pod coming from the sky should thwart a lot of that.

[super pretendo]

If people want to play aggressively they should be allowed to. And if they want to play slow and cautiously that should be allowed too.
But if there's no death penalty, playing cautiously is strictly inferior. It would favor a recklessly aggressive style and penalize a style that takes time for kills to get kills without dying. People should certainly be ALLOWED to play any way they want, but they don't need to be pandered to and should pay the normal cost of doing so. See what I am saying?

[StumpyTheOzzie]

Respawn should be long, but medic rez should be short. No huffing and puffing while I "get up" and then have 10 health and have to crawl away to regen (or whatever)

I always seem to be the "lead the charge" guy and so I die a lot while all the arseholes who care about k/d ratios dance around taking potshots and not taking ground or securing objectives.

1st priority: Complete objective.
2nd priority: Stay alive.

This is a team game remember.

[super pretendo]

Yeah, medic revive should be strictly superior to respawns, at least in terms of quickness

[Sirisian]

Maybe you're thinking about the squad spawn?
Nah just pointing out that there is variable spawning different places. Squad spawning has its own, but there's no reason to say that during beta we won't see complex spawning mechanics based on where people spawn. As far as I can tell the little outposts people were spawning at were uncapturables that the developers placed in the game for each of the 3 factions.

[Dougnifico]

Those spawn point seem to be capturable spawn points that add the the facilities capture. Also, 10 second respawn is just fine. With the size of the maps, distance back into the fight is punishment enough. Also, some people just suck but still want to play and some are casual gamers. These people would be put off from a high respawn timer. I think Battlefield 3 had it right (except squad spawn). 10 seconds is perfect.

[super pretendo]

"casual players might get hurt feelings" is not a valid argument. The only relevant arguments here is what respawn timer is optimal to make the strategy, tactics, kill/death satisfaction/aversion and flow of the game optimal. The game should be design with its high level of strategy motif in mind. Contradicting this to not alienate people who don't care about what makes the game unique is ludicrous

[Dougnifico]

More players = higher population = more money for SOE = longer game lifespan

If you want a game to go big, you have to make a couple concessions. The market demands it. I think a standard 10 second respawn timer is fair. It gets people back into action faster, accommodates the bulk of the shooter market, and doesn't jeopardize the game itself.

[xnorb]

Not the spawn timer itself is the problem.
The only issue with respawning is how long it takes you to get back into battle.

In Battlefield 3 (as i think it's a well known title) every time you spawn
you're right in the action again. Flags are clustered and in worst case you
can always spawn on your squad mates.
So lowering the respawn there, it's like fighting zombies because as soon
as you wiped out a squad, it will be back up again.

So if you got a 5 seconds respawn timer in PS2, but can only spawn in base
which takes you at least 30 seconds to be back in action, it makes the
actual respawn time not that much of an issue.

The only thing:
If PS2 forces us to spawn far away, then there need to be LOADS of transport
vehicles availabe. There should be always a vehicle around when someone spawns.


P.S. The "death penalty" thing ... LOL
You think you can punish them by adding 5 seconds to the respawn timer ?
That doesn't matter.
The punishment is the death itself.
No matter if respawn time is 5 seconds or 120 seconds.
If respawn timer is too long people will simply drop the game as they spend more
time on the respawn screen than in actual fighting.

[Dougnifico]

My thoughts exactly. The reason I said BF3 had it right is because there is a timer but its short enough so you don't want to kill yourself staring at the respawn screen. Humans are fickle creatures and are quickly bored by timers and menus.

[Dairian]

As it probably has been said. The demo was meant for E3. Get them in the fight. NOW! Lets wait for beta.

[super pretendo]

The punishment is the death itself
But it isn't at all. Maybe for someone with a really fragile ego or something, but it isn't a punishment as much as it is a cost. Being outplayed should cost you and your something. I'm not talking about a one minute respawn. A few seconds added would make a big difference in the long run flow of battle and tactical considerations, but won't really be noticed by players, which is all the better.

And yeah, effective respawn time includes travel time, which players should be able to circumvent by coordinating with transports.

[Absentis]

I think a variable spawn time based on how far away each spawn is relative to the death would be a good middle ground so it would take a similar amount of time to get back to where you were from either spawn. This time depends on whether or not you decide to respawn near a vehicle pad or not.

For example, you die and decide to spawn near a vehicle pad, this time will be shorter within a reasonable area than if you decided to spawn at a point closer to your death, such as a galaxy spawn. This would also help to keep momentum in the action by having units come consistently to the battle without making it a complete meat-grinder. The exact value of the spawn time plus travel would have to be tested in beta so it's not too long or short.

I would also be completely fine with a base respawn of ten seconds to keep faction numbers potentially non-linear and having convoys/aircraft fleets coming in bursts.

[Stew]

I clocked it from the E3 video. I am happy to see there IS in fact any respawn time at all, but 10 seconds to come back doesn't seem like it makes death much of a consideration at all. Taking out someone doesn't seem to satisfying or even important, since they just pop right back out in a few seconds. What does everyone think?

I hope they make it something like 20 seconds. Not disruptive to people wanting to get back into the action, but it will make those same people think for a moment before rushing in headlong ad nauseam.

An alternative to a 20 second respawn time is a ticket system, where having many respawns has a negative effect on the player and/or faction that is constantly dying.

MAG as a 20 sec respawn time and it could be anoying as hell but the worst part is in planetside 2 you have 80 % less chance to get revive so 10 second look fine to me 10 second in a middle of a huge battle feel like eternity !

Stop trying to push to much restriction to make the game unplayable for an overall audiance !

The worst players will die the most so they will enjoy the game spending their time in a countdown timmer sreen to repawn ? die in few seconds and get back to a 20 secondes screen I say No way its a game killer to have numbers

battlefield have a 5 seconds timer and its fine

Punishing dead for people already BAD dont seam to be a good idea it will promote camping far away because they will be afraid to die because they dont want to spend all their playtime in a count down screen !

And also it will ruins the game overall many people will find it boring and anoying to have to wait over 20 second to get back into the action or on the map at least !

[super pretendo]

This isn't battlefield 3. They are not making Battlefield 3: Future warfare. Stop making the comparison, they are different games.

"I have a very short attention and I am too careless to not die all the time" is not and will never be a valid argument. The only valid arguments are ones that actually pertain to the flow of the overall battlefield and what the timers lend to strategic and tactical considerations.

[noxious]

A respawn timer is only one of many mechanisms available to punish death. Travel time to get back to the fight, resource costs (vehicles, MAXes, consumables such as grenades) and persistent stats also incentivize avoiding death.

The respawn timer itself is likely to be adjusted. Base defenders, for example, are almost guaranteed to end up with a lengthier respawn timer (see: Team Fortress 2 or the original PlanetSide) or else stalemates will occur too frequently. It is reasonable to assume that these adjustments won't be a focus until the dev team has access to a bunch of data to analyze (beta).

[Stew]

More players = higher population = more money for SOE = longer game lifespan

If you want a game to go big, you have to make a couple concessions. The market demands it. I think a standard 10 second respawn timer is fair. It gets people back into action faster, accommodates the bulk of the shooter market, and doesn't jeopardize the game itself.

Agree some people think SOE make this game to please themself and their own taste they dont think thats we have to make some few sacrifice and accept those to get a decent numbers of players to play the game and also to suport the game further with new contents etc..

[super pretendo]

Casual players have much lower ARPU than hardcore players, and deeper games that players are emotionally invested in more have higher ARPU. But that's not the topic of discussion. In this magical space of a thread, we can discuss what will lend positives to the overall game visions and experience, not what will appeal to one demographic more.

Is this too much to ask?

[Stew]

This isn't battlefield 3. They are not making Battlefield 3: Future warfare. Stop making the comparison, they are different games.

"I have a very short attention and I am too careless to not die all the time" is not and will never be a valid argument. The only valid arguments are ones that actually pertain to the flow of the overall battlefield and what the timers lend to strategic and tactical considerations.

Dude iam pretty much sure i have more Shooters experience than you iam almost 99 % convince of thats !

And i say multiple time this isnt about me This is about the game sucess

Iam not a bad player so i will not die to often so i dont care about this pityful timer idea for me its just a copy and past of the MAG wave timers ! but planetside is a open wold and its very different than MAG

In planetside 2 people can repawn in a galaxie really far from the based and squad spawn is limited already

THE E3 DEMO WAS NOT REPRESENTATIVE OF THE TRUE reinforcement flow since the vs tr and nc outpost was at few feets away from the base so all you have seen is biased and this idea dont even make sens

also think about bad players the 20 sec timers kill the game for those they were passing their time in a god damned loading screen you got thats ?

I dont have a issue about it ive play MAG for about 2000 hours so yeah i can deal whith thats whiiout any trouble i had a 3.45 to 10 kdr in each game so i was not dying thats much !

I care about the sucess of the game not just about myself !

If their is no more player based after few days because of those punishing mechanics it will ruins the game i want the game to suceed !

SO IAM AGAINS YOUR IDEA 100 % AGAINS IT Not for me but for those who need to be there play the game and enjoy it and suport it even if they are not at my level !

[super pretendo]

not precisely sure what you're saying, but I am aware that the E3 demo is not the final state of the game. But as far as I know it's all the we have to go on, and I'd like to discuss the respawn aspect of the game.

[Stew]

not precisely sure what you're saying, but I am aware that the E3 demo is not the final state of the game. But as far as I know it's all the we have to go on, and I'd like to discuss the respawn aspect of the game.

It seams you dont got the whole thing ( the e3 demo ) was vs outpost tr outpost and nc outpost at few feets from the actual base this will not happen so often in the actual game

In the real planetside sometime the respawn vehicules or frindly outpost will be at miles away from the very battle so just traveling to thats location agains could take time for many people not all because some will have well defended suderer or galaxies with big outfits etc..

But the most players who just jump ito the game must enjoy it imediatly and this sort of timer punishement will ruins their experience and make them quit

So 10 second is more than enough

if you ask me i will say i prefere to deal with a short time to respawn than dealing whith a almost dead game after few days or weeks !

[super pretendo]

No, I totally understand that the E3 demo had special features in place to make it work for the demo. That's not what I am talking about.

And if 5 more seconds of respawn time really upsets you, then you should put a little more care into tactics so you don't die as much

[Gonefshn]

10 seconds is a fair time.

But if you honestly die in the blink of an eye because of TTK you can't make it much longer because it will only serve to frustrate.

You need to strike a balance where people feel like they get enough time in combat and aren't spending most of the time waiting for spawn or getting into an engagement.

[Stew]

No, I totally understand that the E3 demo had special features in place to make it work for the demo. That's not what I am talking about.

And if 5 more seconds of respawn time really upsets you, then you should put a little more care into tactics so you don't die as much

I told you now about 4 times

I do not care personally about it ill probably wipe out half of a squad before ill die !

I care about the sucess of the game So iam agains it !

Regular people dont ahve much skills they have around 0.4 to 1 KDR and they die more than they kills

Look at every massive game boards at the end of the games

12 kill 40 dead 5 kill 15 dead and so on thats the 80 % of the players the other 20 % went positive and around 2 to 3 % get like 2 kdr+ and much more points than anybody in objective modes !

So in order for this game to suceed all the (( spawn restriction )) dont have to existe because its an extra punishement for people who are already average or bad players !

most people dont want to spend their time in a count down screen they want to play the game Do you get me ??

Do you ?

[meiam]

Like someone mention short respawn time seriously promote stalemate because the defending team pop back out right next to the action where the attacking team potentially has to walk.

I'm the kind of person who if the respawn time are really short will gladly have the most reckless action I can, doesn't matter if I die 20 sec after spawning, I'll be back soon. Heck if the time is short enough I woudln't even mind sticking explosive on me/vehicule and just kamikazing. Death is not a punishment by itself, most of the time those super reckless strategy are even good for you're k/d ratio while also allowing you to have a really high amount of enemy kill, which prob will mean more exp.

I think the best system would be like a CD on respawn CD SO if you die, you respawn in 10 sec, but if you die in the next 20 sec, you're respawn is longer, and if you die again very quickly, it's even longer. That way it stop stalemate, actually discourage farming since pretty quickly the flow stop and force people to think with survival in mind. Maybe have some sort of regional thing for the longer respawn CD, like if you want to respawn here, you gotta wait 30 sec, but further away it's just the normal 10 sec.

[Gonefshn]

I think the best system would be like a CD on respawn CD SO if you die, you respawn in 10 sec, but if you die in the next 20 sec, you're respawn is longer, and if you die again very quickly, it's even longer. That way it stop stalemate, actually discourage farming since pretty quickly the flow stop and force people to think with survival in mind. Maybe have some sort of regional thing for the longer respawn CD, like if you want to respawn here, you gotta wait 30 sec, but further away it's just the normal 10 sec.

That's a cool idea. Though it doesn't really solve the issue of players being frustrated who die often or quickly in a firefight it would allow people to return quickly in some cases and would help stop the stalemate problem.

Either way I think you need to keep people in the game world when it's possible. Maybe don't allow super fast spawns on all locations but you should always have the option to spawn almost instantly [I somewhere[/I] like at another uncontested base to pull a vehicle or things like that. If you have to travel to reach the fight you shouldn't have a long wait to spawn.

[xnorb]

Don't know about you, but if i get something to do while i'm dead, i don't
really notice the time it takes to respawn.

Checking the map for example is an important thing for me to get an
overview - especially if the map is extremely huge and it's possible to
avoid direct battle but still contribute to the team. (flanking big style)

Same goes for loadouts / skilltree.

The most horrible thing in BF3 is the forced killcam and the 50 seconds
end-of-round screen. Simply because you can't do anything during those screens.

[lawnmower]

a ten second rsepawn timer would give the medic something like a 5 second time to start the revive process from time of dying (estimated from what they seem to want to make the revivelength to be like).
i think this would be a terrible idea

More players = higher population = more money for SOE = longer game lifespan

how long the timespan is is dependant on when the game becomes unprofitable, with a small factor being how likely they think they are that they can make it profitable again, to what extent and how long it would take

[Timey]

10s is borderline fine. Anything more is frustrating, imo.

[FluffyMilk]

10 second respawns are perfectly fine.

You seem to be forgetting about travel time to an objective, or resource costs for a new vehicle. The people who die often and respawn quickly are punished way harder than you are making out. I can see a lot of people, rushing into a fight, getting killed, respawning, buying a Mosquito/Reaver/Scythe and flying as quick as possible to the fight. These players will very quickly starve themselves of resources, and will not be able to sustain their wasteful ways. They will learn over time, that to run in and die, has impact on their resources.

10 seconds is long enough for a player to feel like they are missing out on a fight, and that's not including travel time.

Don't feel the need to raise timers up so high. It is a game after all, and missing out on half of the games intricacies because I'm too busy staring at a respawn screen is a waste of time.

Tl;DR 10 seconds is long enough because there is more than timers to worry about, and it wont break gameplay.

[Brusi]

most people dont want to spend their time in a count down screen they want to play the game Do you get me ??

Do you ?

I'm fucking surprised... but you know what Stew? I get you...

[Nasher]

10 seconds is good. In PS1 it was to long most of the time. You not having much fun just staring at a progress bar on a map screen :/

[Nemises]

hmm..well, your average time to die should be much MUCH higher than in the e3 demo for starters..that was just a compressed clusterfuck to get the adrenaline flowing ...in no way indicative of how the game will be "most" of the time (/disclaimer , of course it could get that way sometimes, but I digress)

Based on PS1, you could play for 3 or 4 hours non stop , and perhaps have died..what..4 times?...

Not having insta spawn is not a negative...you will not spend you time waiting for a counter (unless you count the HART!), you will spend your time getting back to your squad from the nearest available spawn point (which could be 3 or 4 minutes run time away easily).

[MrKWalmsley]

Personally, I would not advocate for a ticket system. However a 20 second re-spawn timer I do support, not to make people be more careful in future or to consider the consequences, but to make you kills matter more. But the main reason is just to make sure that an attack on a base does not end up being a continual stream of fighting but more a wave system, and to encourage more tactile thinking, as the remaining forces has to survive for double the time to sustain the assault, and if they cannot then it's likely that the re-spawn won't be happening anywhere near the action, and another wave and tactic will need to be developed.

20 seconds is a good round number, personally I would have something like a 1-2 minute re-spawn timer like in Project Reality but I would not advocate it for this game because I know it would scare a lot of people off, so I'd settle for 20.

[Lantis]

I think the best system would be like a CD on respawn CD SO if you die, you respawn in 10 sec, but if you die in the next 20 sec, you're respawn is longer, and if you die again very quickly, it's even longer. That way it stop stalemate, actually discourage farming since pretty quickly the flow stop and force people to think with survival in mind. Maybe have some sort of regional thing for the longer respawn CD, like if you want to respawn here, you gotta wait 30 sec, but further away it's just the normal 10 sec.

This is essentially the same system from the original Planetside. I don't see any reason why it couldn't be implemented similarly again. Early deaths, the main death penalty is travel time to the objective. However, with frequent deaths, the penalty is, again, travel time, plus the extra respawn timer from dying so often.

[outsider]

I think if it's your first death in a while then the respawn button should pop straight away.
next quick death is a 5 second countdown.
next quick death is a 10 second countdown.
And for every subsequent quick death after it stays locked at 10 seconds.

I honestly don't believe in arbitrary game systems punishing players, I believe that it is the role of the player to punish the other players and it is important that whatever rage you may feel for having been killed gets directed to the faction that killed you. It's important that players, after they have been killed, have the ability to get back on their feet and get on with the fight quickly so they can channel those emotions in a constructive way.

different strategies will quickly evolve that will incorporate whatever spawn times gets used; but worse than bases that are too hard to take are bases that are too easy.

If you have long countdown timers, then people are just gonna bail from any action that has the numbers stacked against them, because if you're outnumbered you're gonna die more often and your faction will have less people in the fight. If you're playing to win than it will actually change the culture in the game from engagement to avoidance and that's not good.

[thegreekboy]

This isn't battlefield 3. They are not making Battlefield 3: Future warfare. Stop making the comparison, they are different games.

"I have a very short attention and I am too careless to not die all the time" is not and will never be a valid argument. The only valid arguments are ones that actually pertain to the flow of the overall battlefield and what the timers lend to strategic and tactical considerations.

It seems to me like you are the only one defending death penalties.

[ThermalReaper]

10 seconds for normal spawns, 100+ seconds for squad spawn. No idea for galaxy. Probably good.

[Atmosfear]

I think 10 seconds is fine. I think 3 seconds is fine. The real "delay" between getting people back into the fight will be determined by spawn point location.

Having a Galaxy parked nearby will be crucial for quicker re-entry into battle, as will squad drops (which should and I believe do have cooldowns on them currently). I'd rather people be hoofing it on foot or looking for a ride in-game then staring at a screen and a timer.

And to say that the game won't be popular with delays between intense fighting? Counter-Strike had players wait until one team won or lost. World of Warcraft had plenty of time running back from wiping on raid bosses. So no, 3 or 15 seconds really won't matter much... I think it should be low delay after death, but then you have to figure a way to get back in the fight.

[MrKWalmsley]

as will squad drops (which should and I believe do have cooldowns on them currently).

I agree on having a cooldown after using it but there should be a bit of a wait before you can use if after you die, otherwise you practically get one instant spawn (which can be directed to a desired location) every few minutes when you die. Having a 20 second squad spawn timer when the cooldown is ready would counteract this.

[Sabot]

I agree on having a cooldown after using it but there should be a bit of a wait before you can use if after you die, otherwise you practically get one instant spawn (which can be directed to a desired location) every few minutes when you die. Having a 20 second squad spawn timer when the cooldown is ready would counteract this.

This.

Also, spawn timers mostly affects the attackers, as their logistics in the battle usually is far more complex.
Having the same timer for everybody at all times, I think would force a more "tactical" approach for both the defenders and attackers. At least players will have to think a little if the age old tactic of throwing troops into a meatgrinder for hours doesn't work like they want to.

[feuerdog]

Dying is a compounded penalty....

Assuming the players is always proactive on the battlefield then death has several penalities.....

1. TEAM - Being dead you are now a burden on your squad who may, or may not be burdened with the effort reviving you.
2. TIME - Being dead you are now ineffective on the battlefield for the duration of your respawn timer(modified by certs?).
3. TRAVEL - Once you respawn you still have travel time to consider(modified by certs and proximity).
4. RESOURCES - Having respawned you have also placed a burden on resources, if not only via personal points gain which helps your team, but by the possibility of utilizing faction resources.

Is a basic 10 seconds long enough for a standard respawn?
I don't know.

But I do have faith that multiple deaths will be inherently bad without, or even with, any possible certs that may speed the process up or make "zerg"-like regeneration tactically advantageous.

FWIW I do think PS2 will play faster, more tactically, than PS1 did. Even from a geographical aspect, gettimng into the fight will be far more efficient,....making combat that much more immediate.

[Nemises]

^^ good post

[Trignite]

I don't mind a longish spawn time as long as you can skip kill cams and change your equipment, view the map, change settings, chat etc while waiting. I also think that the spawn on footholds (uncaps) should be very quick/instant but there is a short time taken from the spawn point to get outside. even if you are just sprinting to get out of the base its more enjoyable then sitting at a menu screen. And since enemies aren't aloud inside it wouldn't really harm gameplay just allows players to have more time running around.

Also I think that games should definitely have a good skill gap but punishing people who die too much with longer respawn times is NOT the way to go about it. this would make people want to do risky things less. Instead of promoting team play it will harm it. People won't want to risk their lives repairing a vehicle, capturing a objective etc.

On the other hand though they would be less stupid and play more carefully, but they already get punished by death there really isn't any reason to add salt to the injury plus i think people would rage more.