Which would you prefer: VAC or PB?

[Deezy]

Not sure if there's already been a poll thread on this issue or not. If there has been, I'll gladly redact this poll and head towards that thread.

I know there will be a supplemental 24/7 admin monitoring system (speculated), as well as some other unknown and undisclosed systems in the back end.

However, I'm looking to get a general consensus from players on this forum as to which you'd rather see implemented in the forefront for PS2?

*edit: Should clarify beforehand that this poll is for theoretical purposes only. Two assumptions are made here:
1) We accept the fact that this is all speculative.
2) We assume PS2 will be on Steam (For voting purposes. I'm not saying it will be. Don't get your panties in a wad.)

[ChipMHazard]

Neither. I've had problems with both of them even though PB is by far the worst.
They won't be using VAC unless they also end up releasing PS2 through Steam, which they might not want to do.
I don't want them to use PB simple because of all the technical issues a lot of people end up having with it.

[Stew]

VAC punk buster suck !

[Deezy]

I understand that. I'm also choosing the lesser of two evils.

[Knotz]

Whatever stops the wankers. I care not about its name.

Also, I hope it is released through Steam.

[Malorn]

I'd prefer people not assume there is only one solution. Any effective anti-cheat strategy involves multiple solutions and processes. And not revealing the details of that strategy is key to its success. They aren't going to tell us all the details. They shouldn't. It is not in our best interest for them to do so. Some things you just have to take on faith.

[CuddlyChud]

I don't get what the point of this is. There are very few games that actually use VAC (since it requires that your game be tied to Steam). Planetside 2 most definitely won't be one of these, so VAC is immediately discounted. What other anti cheating software is there then besides PB?

[Geist]

Neither. I've had problems with both of them even though PB is by far the worst.
They won't be using VAC unless they also end up releasing PS2 through Steam, which they might not want to do.
I don't want them to use PB simple because of all the technical issues a lot of people end up having with it.

Why not? They've released nearly every other game on Steam(Everquest 2, DC Universe, etc...), I see a trend. ;)

Punkbuster is the reason I couldn't play 2142. I hope they all die in a fire.

[ChipMHazard]

I don't get what the point of this is. There are very few games that actually use VAC (since it requires that your game be tied to Steam). Planetside 2 most definitely won't be one of these, so VAC is immediately discounted. What other anti cheating software is there then besides PB?

Their own, from what I understand. I have no idea what that might be.

Why not? They've released nearly every other game on Steam(Everquest 2, DC Universe, etc...), I see a trend. ;)

Punkbuster is the reason I couldn't play 2142. I hope they all die in a fire.

Hehe true, however they seem reluctant, if my memory serves me correctly. Might be that they don't want to share the revenue this time around.
I won't discount it coming to Steam.

[BigBossMonkey]

I'd prefer people not assume there is only one solution. Any effective anti-cheat strategy involves multiple solutions and processes. And not revealing the details of that strategy is key to its success. They aren't going to tell us all the details. They shouldn't. It is not in our best interest for them to do so. Some things you just have to take on faith.

They've said they have lots of different things they're using for anti-cheat, it's not JUST PB.

So yeah, I agree. Besides, SOE will never come out and say what exactly they're using. All we know is it involves PB and 24/7 server admins.

[CuddlyChud]

Why not? They've released nearly every other game on Steam(Everquest 2, DC Universe, etc...), I see a trend. ;)

Punkbuster is the reason I couldn't play 2142. I hope they all die in a fire.

I think in order to use VAC you need to be a steamworks game (Can't run the game without going through steam). Other SOE games use Steam as a distributor, but go through their own SOE Launcher and SOE accounts. You don't need steam to play if you get it somewhere else.

[Deezy]

I'd prefer people not assume there is only one solution. Any effective anti-cheat strategy involves multiple solutions and processes. And not revealing the details of that strategy is key to its success. They aren't going to tell us all the details. They shouldn't. It is not in our best interest for them to do so. Some things you just have to take on faith.

This wasn't meant as a litmus test for the end all solution, or even a possible solution, to an anti-hack system. Simply to gather a consensus on what most people here would prefer out of two widely known anti cheating systems. Not saying PS2 will be on steam or not, all of this is theorizing that it might be.

[Coreldan]

I don't really care. I've played game that used either and also few games that actually used both at the same time. In all games there were cheaters, etc..

Well configured (with streaming ban lists etc) PB was pretty fancy at least back in the day, but I believe VAC overall causes a bit less trouble for people usually (not sure if its a sign of being well made or that its less effective too/more lax than PB), even if I never really had any problems with PB.

Both work for the purpose of keeping cheaters on toes and pretty much keeping any worthwhile cheats behind a subscription, which already lowers the amount of cheaters nicely. Free cheats usually dont last very long.

[ChipMHazard]

This wasn't meant as a litmus test for the end all solution, or even a possible solution, to an anti-hack system. Simply to gather a consensus on what most people here would prefer out of two widely known anti cheating systems. Not saying PS2 will be on steam or not, all of this is theorizing that it might be.

In that case, VAC it is then. :D

[indirect]

Would prefer VAC, but it's not going to happen.
Will not play if PB is in game.

[Coreldan]

Would prefer VAC, but it's not going to happen.
Will not play if PB is in game.

I believe that has pretty much confirmed to be in a good while ago.

[aceshigh]

I'd prefer people not assume there is only one solution. Any effective anti-cheat strategy involves multiple solutions and processes. And not revealing the details of that strategy is key to its success. They aren't going to tell us all the details. They shouldn't. It is not in our best interest for them to do so. Some things you just have to take on faith.

It's hard to take it on faith when for nearly the first year after release in PS1 their line was always "There is no speed hack..."

[indirect]

I believe that has pretty much confirmed to be in a good while ago.

It's never been confirmed. As being in WASP you should know, PB fucking ruins games. Ala APB.

SOE is also not G1. They WILL remove PB if it ruins their game and if the customer says "NO."

[Coreldan]

It's never been confirmed. As being in WASP you should know, PB fucking ruins games. Ala APB.

I've never had any problems personally with PB. In the course of 7 years of playing a lot of PB secured games, I've had to update it manually twice, which has taken me total of like 2 minutes :D The online games I've played the most in my life have pretty much been PB secured, so I can't quite say it has ruined any of the games I've played. I still play APB and while the game has problems, PB isn't even top 20 on that list for me :D

As for actually the cheating part of it, VAC isn't any better, sadly.

As for the confirming part, it's been talked about for a long time: http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/tqzpr/planetside_2_will_be_utilizing_punkbuster/

[indirect]

Talked about does not mean confirmed. Sorry.
I'm not talking about stopping cheaters - PB doesn't do that at all, that's a laughable notion.
I'm talking about the lag it causes. If you TRULY are saying it NEVER caused a problem for you in APB... then you're not the real Core, because the Core I know used to complain about how much it blew dick to drive in APB in TS every night when the PB issues were going on for several MONTHS last year.

[Coreldan]

Talked about does not mean confirmed. Sorry.
I'm not talking about stopping cheaters - PB doesn't do that at all, that's a laughable notion.
I'm talking about the lag it causes. If you TRULY are saying it NEVER caused a problem for you in APB... then you're not the real Core, because the Core I know used to complain about how much it blew dick to drive in APB in TS every night when the PB issues were going on for several MONTHS last year.

I can't quite recognize myself from that description :D Regarding APB I've only ever been into two clans, Stainless and WASP and I'm the only "Core" Patriot servers of APB has ever had, since I've had the name from the start :D

Did you run with the same name? That doesnt really ring any bells.

That said, even if I wouldnt call that PBs fault per se, more like bad implementation in the first place. I do remember the time when something regarding PB caused a huge lag spike to like who server, but baseline I never put it on PB. APBs implementation on PB was lackluster starting from RTW (which lead to having to turn it off cos they hadnt really implemented it at all lol).

And even if the caused problems, it was temporary and has most certainly not ruined the game for me :D

[Deezy]

I've never had any problems personally with PB. In the course of 7 years of playing a lot of PB secured games, I've had to update it manually twice, which has taken me total of like 2 minutes :D The online games I've played the most in my life have pretty much been PB secured, so I can't quite say it has ruined any of the games I've played. I still play APB and while the game has problems, PB isn't even top 20 on that list for me :D

As for actually the cheating part of it, VAC isn't any better, sadly.

As for the confirming part, it's been talked about for a long time: http://www.reddit.com/r/Planetside/comments/tqzpr/planetside_2_will_be_utilizing_punkbuster/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/513/alast.jpg/

Yea it's pretty common knowledge that they decided to use PB. Could things change? IDK. We managed to get the kill cam out of the game. :brow:

[indirect]

No it was indrct, but I was in WASP from RTW into G1 CB and quit when everyone I played with went to the EU servers when they launched.

[Coreldan]

Hmmh, can't recall the name, but part of that was most likely just playing with closer to 300ms to NA west server :D That said, I could manage driving pretty well there too when I got used to it, but naturally playing on old EU servers was much better.

Also, at that time I was also playing on a laptop with lowest res and 25-30 fps, so theres a few other potential targets to blame for it :D

[Luieburger]

VAC by 10 miles

[Rumblepit]

im a huge fan of vac!!!!!!!!love the way that system works. but from what ive been reading if implement correctly,and if the game its being use for is developed around PB it can work wonders. most devs create a game and see it get flooded with hackers then they say lets get PB and try and stop them!!!! this dont work so well.

not sure if this is true or not, but i was told one of the reasons vac dose so well is that the devs subscribes to all the main hack sites and update vac along with the new hacks.

[TeaLeaf]

In my experience games with VAC have less cheaters. Though that could just be because most games that use punkbuster after 2001 or so are shitty console ports that are easy to hack. I doubt they will try to integrate VAC though, hopefully they can cook up something of their own.

[Khellendros]

Anything but punkbuster.

[Sifer2]

Well the great thing about VAC is you never get booted out of the game over a false positive or not being updated like you do all the time with PB. It still amazes me they even consider using PB at all.

That said I would say VAC has almost zero chance of happening as that is part of the Steamworks infrastructure. That means the game would require Steam so they wont do that. So yeah topic kind of pointless.

[Deezy]

...That said I would say VAC has almost zero chance of happening as that is part of the Steamworks infrastructure. That means the game would require Steam so they wont do that. So yeah topic kind of pointless.

:shrug: Don't worry. Sometimes I don't read the posts that start poll threads either. Sometimes.

[Kran De Loy]

I'd prefer people not assume there is only one solution. Any effective anti-cheat strategy involves multiple solutions and processes. And not revealing the details of that strategy is key to its success. They aren't going to tell us all the details. They shouldn't. It is not in our best interest for them to do so. Some things you just have to take on faith.

This.

However PB is terrible and should not be used regardless.

[james]

Both suck and really don't stop hackers.

[AThreatToYou]

Where's the "Neither"?

In all games that feature either, I experience game-play issues. The game that had imo the most functional net-code and multi-player experience was Tribes 1 back in the day. That's seriously old. I don't think it had a lot of cheat protection, but the hit-detection was absolutely spot-on.

[kaffis]

VAC seems far more effective. However, to use it would necessitate requiring Steam as a platform, which SOE's not going to do.

[Red Beard]

Wow...PB is getting crushed...

[Zar]

Wow...PB is getting crushed...

yup only 6 hacker's so far want pb so they can get away with it xD
p.s i know hacks happen with vac as well but pb just makes shit run crappy and gives hackers a free pass

[Deezy]

Didn't realize it was such a stark majority that dislike PB. I expected VAC to get the most votes, but nowhere near by such a large margin.

[Rago]

Neither :) I hope for a Sony sidet Anticheat

[Azovyr]

I think I am one of the few that actually likes PB. It sure could use a lot of work but still what it does do is rules out casual cheaters (like the ones that google COD hax and get the first thing they find). Mostly it's paid cheat services that get around PB as far as I know and lets face it you have to be in a small minority who are pretty messed up in the head to actually want to buy cheats. But of course many hate PB and rightly so for it's kicking of innocent players, but I personally only ever had problems when PB was not installed correctly.

Problem with VAC is it lets people get away with cheating for quite some time before giving a ban, and in a F2P game where you can just go create a new account in 5 mins that's not really gonna work.

[Kran De Loy]

I think I am one of the few that actually likes PB. It sure could use a lot of work but still what it does do is rules out casual cheaters (like the ones that google COD hax and get the first thing they find). Mostly it's paid cheat services that get around PB as far as I know and lets face it you have to be in a small minority who are pretty messed up in the head to actually want to buy cheats. But of course many hate PB and rightly so for it's kicking of innocent players, but I personally only ever had problems when PB was not installed correctly.

Problem with VAC is it lets people get away with cheating for quite some time before giving a ban, and in a F2P game where you can just go create a new account in 5 mins that's not really gonna work.

Anti-Hack software will always be playing catch up and it is literally impossible to design a program that predicts how people will eventually hack a system. Therefore is it impossible to have something that's perfect. However it's essential that there is a program that detects and blocks the massive flood of known exploits and hacks that exist on the internet. PB does fit that bill, however regardless of how effective PB is at stopping known hacks it has far too many other service problems to justify what little it does do.

I agree that VAC takes too long to be effective for a F2P game like PS2 will be, but it is still better option than PB should it come down to a choice between the two, one or the other.

Otherwise...

Wow...PB is getting crushed...

I feel that that is mostly because there isn't a 'neither/other' choice and I wonder how many people do not agree with either option so are picking none.

[Nemeses]

While neither are good and had loads of PB issue VAC is simply useless, mm I hope the bloody cheats done ruin this game :(

[Nemeses]

I'd prefer people not assume there is only one solution. Any effective anti-cheat strategy involves multiple solutions and processes. And not revealing the details of that strategy is key to its success. They aren't going to tell us all the details. They shouldn't. It is not in our best interest for them to do so. Some things you just have to take on faith.

Hopefully it should be this, the need to try bring in hardware bans as well, yes I know its not that hard to work around, but for some people it just adds to the fear factor.

Wow...PB is getting crushed...

Yeah mostly I would guess by players caught cheating :D

[Prexun]

Punkbuster has alot of issues, but VAC fails to ban alot of cheaters. Therefor I prefer Punkbuster. It's obvious they're not going to use either of them btw.

[basti]

Clearly Punkbuster. WHy? Because i actually got a clue and dont just repeat what i read elsewhere.

Vac is useless for PS2. Ignoring the fact that it cant even be used in theory here: The big difference is that Vac just bans after a while, to kill whole groups of cheaters, while PB denys them access alltogether. In a P2P game, VAC does good, but in a F2P game, its simply "Oh, my account died, lets make a new one" rather than "what the fuck to do to get through this ban? New account doesnt help!" you get with Punkbuster.

Yes, Punkbuster has issues, but dont compare Other versions of punkbuster. Ive seen games where it fails to do anything, games where it stopped me from playing alltogether, and games where it did fine and got rid of the guys who needed the ban.


tl;dr: PB > Vac.

[Ant001]

Would prefer VAC, but it's not going to happen.
Will not play if PB is in game.


Punkbuster WILL be in so go find another game.

So who among us have admined servers suing PB and know its really good at catching cheating hacking scum??

Vac is shit always has been and always will be.

I hate to say this but if you troll any hack site or cheating scum forum THEY complain even more than you noobs about Punkbuster ...I wonder why ??? lmao.

[PlaceboCyanide]

VAC works, PB doesn't - but its too late for all of that since they've already decided to go with PB.