Single shot rifles for classes other than infiltrator?

[Durandal]

Hey,

Sorry if this question has been asked before, I tried searching it up and couldnt find anything, but granted im terrible at these things..

Anyhow, ive been watching all of the videos and things for this game and have been seeing something which I feel is a little distressing, it seems like the infiltrator is the only class that gets a single shot rifle. From what I hear all the light combatants get assault rifles, shotguns, and SMGs, while the heavy assault gets the obviously heavier guns. and the infiltrator gets the sniper rifles.

Now I really wanna play the light assault, and don't get me wrong, I do like on occasion to use a fully auto assault rifle, but I feel that usually I like to use the more skill based single shot carbine rifles that aren't sniper rifles. I REALLY hope that the light classes will have access to single shot carbines, because all of the e3 footage showed was machine gun after machine gun, and yeah yeah yeah i know that it was just an alpha build and so on, but i havnt heard anything about single shot carbines, so its making me a little worried.

[Brusi]

cuz-tim-aye-zay-shun

I'm sure you will be able to mode your light-assault carbine to at least fire 3xShot burst.

[Ratstomper]

I haven't heard about any single shot carbines, BUT you may be able to mod out one of the slower rof machine guns to act more like a single shot carbine. Boost damage per hit and accuracy in exchange for fire rate and clip size?

[Pyreal]

Maybe there will be selectors, but I doubt there will be a single shot rifle available to LA.

[OutlawDr]

You mean more like a battle rifle, not a single shot carbine.

A carbine's advantage is there low recoil, which allows faster ROF for short distance engagement.

So should we give LA's a battle rifle equivalent weapon? I'm leaning towards no.
I think giving LA a weapon to pop snipe at range is too much. Not only can they get the better positioning, but it would also allow them to hunker down and camp out plucking away at targets. A lone wolfs wet dream.

[Durandal]

I would love to have a battle rifle variant for the light assault, something that is not a fully auto rifle, shotgun, or SMG.

But with that said, it doesn't appear like they are giving any class a single shot carbine. It appears that only the infiltrator has access to a weapon of that type or maybe they dont, maybe they only have sniper rifles and single shot carbines dont exist in this universe:(

[Sifer2]

I said this in the thread about low TTK, and headshots. But I think they should add a Battle Rifle class of weapon to the Assualt classes. A weapon that bridges the gap between a spammy Assualt Rifle/SMG, and the Sniper Rifle. Rate of fire would be faster than a Sniper but no where near the spammy current AR speeds. But the bullets would not suffer as much spread or drop off. And these Rifles would be the ONLY rifles besides Sniper capable of doing headshots.

Which might sound strange but it actually makes the gameplay a lot more skill based. It's the same system that was used in Halo 2/3/Reach. Where only the Pistol, Battle Rifle, and Sniper Rifle could do headshots. The idea is basically to eliminate the spray bullets at head level style gameplay that was so prevalent in the E3 footage. Adding Battle Rifles with small clips that only have slow semi auto or burst fire would help raise the bar significantly in terms of skill needed to to consistently headshot compared to what we saw at E3. Ideally if you could nail the headshots with a BR you could kill faster at medium to close range than someone using the AR. Otherwise they could probably spam you dead. You would also be more effective in general in longer range engagements capable of fighting back against Snipers.

[Koenside]

I don't think one hit kill weapons have any place in PS2. With battles as massive as they are, everyone will be dead before you get a chance to react or fight back. That's not fun in my opinion. Nothing worse then turning a corner and BAM.. dead..

[Ratstomper]

I would love to have a battle rifle variant for the light assault, something that is not a fully auto rifle, shotgun, or SMG.

But with that said, it doesn't appear like they are giving any class a single shot carbine. It appears that only the infiltrator has access to a weapon of that type or maybe they dont, maybe they only have sniper rifles and single shot carbines dont exist in this universe:(

Carbines, by definition, are just short rifles. They are primarily used in situations where full rifles aren't practical; tight quarters, horseback or in vehicles. Modern versions of carbines are more like assault rifles.

I don't see why we couldn't give the LA a scout carbine with iron sights....

[Durandal]

I donno, i dont really want them to be "better" than spammy assualt rifles, hell i dont even care if they do headshot damage or whatever, i just prefer the feel of a single shot carbine. I would like them to obviously deal more damage per bullet than an assault rifle, but only have like 8 bullets in the clip or like 24 for a 3 round burster.

[OutlawDr]

I said this in the thread about low TTK, and headshots. But I think they should add a Battle Rifle class of weapon to the Assualt classes. A weapon that bridges the gap between a spammy Assualt Rifle/SMG, and the Sniper Rifle. Rate of fire would be faster than a Sniper but no where near the spammy current AR speeds. But the bullets would not suffer as much spread or drop off. And these Rifles would be the ONLY rifles besides Sniper capable of doing headshots.

Which might sound strange but it actually makes the gameplay a lot more skill based. It's the same system that was used in Halo 2/3/Reach. Where only the Pistol, Battle Rifle, and Sniper Rifle could do headshots. The idea is basically to eliminate the spray bullets at head level style gameplay that was so prevalent in the E3 footage. Adding Battle Rifles with small clips that only have slow semi auto or burst fire would help raise the bar significantly in terms of skill needed to to consistently headshot compared to what we saw at E3. Ideally if you could nail the headshots with a BR you could kill faster at medium to close range than someone using the AR. Otherwise they could probably spam you dead. You would also be more effective in general in longer range engagements capable of fighting back against Snipers.

I definitely like the idea when I read it in that thread, but I would only have shields disable headshots except for sniper rifles, battle rifles and high caliber, low ROF handguns...or any weapon that passes a certain damage per bullet threashold which implies a low ROF.

However the question is, should LA get such a weapon? Or any weapon that will allow to stand back and pop snipe at mid to long range.

[Ratstomper]

I don't think one hit kill weapons have any place in PS2. With battles as massive as they are, everyone will be dead before you get a chance to react or fight back. That's not fun in my opinion. Nothing worse then turning a corner and BAM.. dead..

It's really a discussion for somewhere else, but I can speak from experience that sniping in PS1 can be frustrating at times, because it always took at least 2 hits to kill someone. Which meant they would find cover while you were reloading and you essentially lost the kill. You pretty much had to just luck out and hope someone stuck around long enough to let you kill them or catch someone out in the open.

I think 1-hit kills should be viable for sniper rifles with headshots and also kills from behind with knife certs.

I don't think a scout carbine should be 1-hit kill. All weapons can headshot, but it should take a few shots at least to pick guys off from range. LAs jut have too much mobility to get accurate 1-hit kill guns, imo.

[Durandal]

I don't think a scout carbine should be 1-hit kill. All weapons can headshot, but it should take a few shots at least to pick guys off from range. LAs jut have too much mobility to get accurate 1-hit kill guns, imo.

I completely agree, LAs SHOULD NOT HAVE 1 shot kills, maybe like 4 shot kills though, i mean if you see how fast the Assault rifles take people down in this game, maybe it could even be as low as 3 shots

[Ratstomper]

I completely agree, LAs SHOULD NOT HAVE 1 shot kills, maybe like 4 shot kills though, i mean if you see how fast the Assault rifles take people down in this game, maybe it could even be as low as 3 shots

The issue arises when you have LA getting up on high spots that HA or other infantry can't reach. Then it's infiltrators job to be on LA duty...

[Durandal]

or give every light class access to it, from what it seems LA, Medic, Engie they all appear to use the same weapon pool

[Vamp Hunter]

Battle rifle/combat rifle is a really good idea, not necessarily for the LA but maybe just for whatever classes it fits with. Personally I hate the boring over used assault rifles/SMGs and will be using a shotgun unless I can have a combat rifle.

[Durandal]

I really hope that they allow classes other than infiltrator can get single shot rifles

[Bravix]

There's a reason you don't see a bunch of single shot rifles running around in modern day warfare...

BECAUSE THEY'RE POINTLESS! Why make a single shot rifle, when you can make a fully automatic rifle that has a selector letting you put it to semi-automatic. Making a gone forced to shoot one bullet at a time doesn't make it do more damage, it simply limits it.

If you want it to be single shot, just set it to semi-automatic.

If you're pushing towards a larger caliber, sniper rifle type weapon, no. It'd make LA way overpowered.

[PsychoXR-20]

Many weapons in the E3 stream had "Automatic, Automatic" under their fire-mode category. Obviously there's no reason for a weapon to have two automatic modes, so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a lot of weapons get a single shot/2/3 round burst option.

There was an NC weapon that was very briefly seen in the day 2 stream called the "NC18 Gauss Rifle Burst", and the TR repeater fires in 3 round bursts, but fully automatic 3 round bursts (as in 1 click of the mouse would fire 3 rounds minimum, but holding the mouse down will keep firing util you let up or run out of ammo)

[ComerEste]

I sure hope there will be some form of single shot assault rifles. I loved me some M14 in CoD: Black Ops.

M14 - Black Ops Multiplayer Weapon Guide - YouTube

[Toppopia]

Many weapons in the E3 stream had "Automatic, Automatic" under their fire-mode category. Obviously there's no reason for a weapon to have two automatic modes, so I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a lot of weapons get a single shot/2/3 round burst option.

There was an NC weapon that was very briefly seen in the day 2 stream called the "NC18 Gauss Rifle Burst", and the TR repeater fires in 3 round bursts, but fully automatic 3 round bursts (as in 1 click of the mouse would fire 3 rounds minimum, but holding the mouse down will keep firing util you let up or run out of ammo)

When you said 2 shot burst, that makes me think of the AN-94 that can shoot 2 bullets before it has recoil, me want that kind of weapon :D

And if you want single shot weapons, as this guy is saying, just set to single shot mode.Or only do a quick tap to shoot 1 bullet.

[Bravix]

You mean more like a battle rifle, not a single shot carbine.

A carbine's advantage is there low recoil, which allows faster ROF for short distance engagement.

So should we give LA's a battle rifle equivalent weapon? I'm leaning towards no.
I think giving LA a weapon to pop snipe at range is too much. Not only can they get the better positioning, but it would also allow them to hunker down and camp out plucking away at targets. A lone wolfs wet dream.

I don't know where you're getting your info from, but carbines don't have a lower recoil then their longer-barrel counterparts. If the barrel is short enough that the bullet isn't able to reach a critical velocity, there would be less force sure...but it would be so minor that it wouldn't be worth noting. Especially so if you consider that the loss of barrel length means the weapon is more light-weight, resulting in increased recoil.

tl;dr carbines have MORE recoil, not less then their longer-barreled counterparts.

[WVoneseven]

Something that takes 3-5 bullets but is semi auto and does much more damage per bullet than an AR or SMG

[xnorb]

This is a really irritating topic here.

Are we talking about fire modes (single fire mode) on assault rifles ?
Or about bolt action carbines ?
Or about 1 hit kill weapons ?

Because, it seems this thread is about all of the above :)

Anyways:
* Single fire mode: never use it, i can pretty well control my shots with
the mouse button, don't need seperate modes for that.
* Bolt action carbines: ah well, i usually don't do very well with them, but
if they are balanced well - why not include them ?
* OHK weapons: Sniper rifles headshot only, shotguns up close, rocket launchers
direct impact. Rest should take more hits to kill.

[Khrakhan]

I was always a huge fan of the M14 in BO. Especially once I started playing hardcore mode. Nothing is more satisfying than giving a quick aim and tap and watching your target drop.

I think they sould include single shot rifles, even if just as customization option.

[Solidblock]

I'm for this.

[JointReef]

* OHK weapons: rocket launchers direct impact.

If that's case you sure better hope the PHX doesn't make a return or it be the most OP weapon it game for infantry kills

can see it now 200 NC hiding behind a wall firing their camera guided rockets at troops dropping them like flies. Not that it would effect me NC4Life :P

[Biohazard]

Heavy assault gets anti-material rifles.

[Wayside]

I'd actually be in favor of something like a high-caliber revolver with sick damage-per-shot values but low rate of fire due to limited rounds between reload.

[ShadowDemon]

I think it would be nice to have two firing modes for carbines. single/two round burst and full-auto/other setting.

I guess it might depend on the faction you were to determine the settings:

TR: Three round burst and full-auto
NC: Single shot and three round burst
Vanu: Two round burst and five round burst (because they are lasers, no full-auto; Have to recharge)

[Sifer2]

I think it would be nice to have two firing modes for carbines. single/two round burst and full-auto/other setting.

I guess it might depend on the faction you were to determine the settings:

TR: Three round burst and full-auto
NC: Single shot and three round burst
Vanu: Two round burst and five round burst (because they are lasers, no full-auto; Have to recharge)


Well like others are saying its possible they already have these kind of toggles on the current Assault Rifles. But that doesn't really add I think what the OP wanted. Which is unique guns that have this lower rate of fire in general but are more powerful. Basically a more powerful but more skill based infantry rifle that wouldn't be as useful in close quarters. I think there is room in the for both personally.

An while you could do it through attachments/customization potentially that runs the risk of making it hard to tell what your opponent is actually using. It's already bad enough that as a pilot you will never know whether its safe to approach a tank or if it will have an AA turret that will shred you in seconds.

[Durandal]

Yeah i really want single shot more powerful mid range weapons for the lighter classes. LA, Medic, and engineer.

I definatley agree with Sifer, I believe that if they are going to make single shot style carbines, it makes alot of sense to have them use a different gun model so that players can know what types of weapons their opponents are using

[xuur]

maybe something along the lines of a hand cannon. large caliber revolver or other. short range, big recoil, but substantial damage at close range, relatively accurate out to shotgun distance, but you'd have to be decent in aiming it (unlike a shotgun) to really score a vital hit. very hard to do at closer ranges and under pressure

maybe?

[Durandal]

maybe something along the lines of a hand cannon. large caliber revolver or other. short range, big recoil, but substantial damage at close range, relatively accurate out to shotgun distance, but you'd have to be decent in aiming it (unlike a shotgun) to really score a vital hit. very hard to do at closer ranges and under pressure

maybe?

No, thats not really what im looking for, more like a covenant carbine style weapon from halo, basically a scope-able medium range single shot rifle that is much less damaging than a sniper rifle, something that does slightly more damage more acuratley from a longer range than a fully automatic assault rifle, provided that you are skilled with it.

[OutlawDr]

I don't know where you're getting your info from, but carbines don't have a lower recoil then their longer-barrel counterparts. If the barrel is short enough that the bullet isn't able to reach a critical velocity, there would be less force sure...but it would be so minor that it wouldn't be worth noting. Especially so if you consider that the loss of barrel length means the weapon is more light-weight, resulting in increased recoil.

tl;dr carbines have MORE recoil, not less then their longer-barreled counterparts.

Well it depends on the exact definition of a carbine (which there really isn't). SMG, Carbine and Assault rifle all have blurry definitions historically and from country to country. Add in PDWs into the mix and it all starts looking very arbitrary. If the carbine is simply a shorter assault rifle, then yes you are right. However some carbines use smaller rounds specifically to reduce recoil and muzzle flash.

No, thats not really what im looking for, more like a covenant carbine style weapon from halo, basically a scope-able medium range single shot rifle that is much less damaging than a sniper rifle, something that does slightly more damage more acuratley from a longer range than a fully automatic assault rifle, provided that you are skilled with it.

You wouldn't really call that a "carbine". If a carbine is anything, its NOT a rifle with more punch, range and accuracy than an assault rifle. Something in between an assault rifle and sniper rifle is a battle rifle.

But again, I don't think its a good idea to give LA (a class with the mobility to quickly find superior position) the ability to out snipe most other classes.

[Durandal]

But again, I don't think its a good idea to give LA (a class with the mobility to quickly find superior position) the ability to out snipe most other classes.

And if they do this for this reason i would understand, but from the looks of it no class will have a "battle rifle" type weapon as you call it. The closest that there appears to be is a sniper rifle, which is not what i am looking for.

I would like them to add that type of weapon to the game, weather it be for only medic and engineer that would be cool, i would probably end up playing those classes, because that type of weapon it what i prefer for FPS. I just hope that they DO implement such a weapon regardless of class.

[kaffis]

Trigger discipline. Done. If you want lower recoil, nobody says you have to lean on your left mouse button.

If you're looking for higher damage per shot weapons and then justifying it "but it's not full auto!!!"... well, that doesn't exactly balance very well when full auto has a lot of recoil to deal with. So no, probably not going to happen that way, since the light assault and support classes are just that -- not heavy assault.

[OutlawDr]

Yeah, if there is a M14-type battle rifle, besides the Infiltrator, only HA should probably have access to it.

[Synapses]

I would LOVE to see semi automatic assault rifles added or as an upgrade to the current rifles.

[Durandal]

I would LOVE to see semi automatic assault rifles added or as an upgrade to the current rifles.

THIS

[Vydofnir]

I would guess that through sidegrades you could probably get your assault rifle to behave a lot like a Halo-style battle rifle. If your looking for more of an M14 sort of vibe, the development team has talked about scout rifles in the past (see 27:10 in the video below). I haven't heard anything about them recently, and they might end up being Infiltrator specific as well, but if they make it into the final version they may be close to what you're looking for.

http://youtu.be/x0Gwu9Ssk8E

[Ratstomper]

maybe something along the lines of a hand cannon. large caliber revolver or other. short range, big recoil, but substantial damage at close range, relatively accurate out to shotgun distance, but you'd have to be decent in aiming it (unlike a shotgun) to really score a vital hit. very hard to do at closer ranges and under pressure

maybe?

It's kinda beside the topic, but I DO really want a badass revolver for the NC. Something like Jim Raynor's revolver from starcraft...

http://gamefrosting.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Starcraft-JimReynor-Pistol-1-800x535.jpg

Anyways, sorry, back to the topic at hand...

[Durandal]

Yeah Vdyofnir, man i completely forgot about that video, yeah depending on HOW powerful the scout rifle is it might be what im wanting, but the high risk high reward makes it seem like it is going to do waaaaay more damage than a battle rifle would.

Also hell yeah Ratstomper, or maybe even one of these hellboy styled ones
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/8823/10030864_1.jpg?v=8CE70FE0DEEB350

[Ratstomper]

Yeah Vdyofnir, man i completely forgot about that video, yeah depending on HOW powerful the scout rifle is it might be what im wanting, but the high risk high reward makes it seem like it is going to do waaaaay more damage than a battle rifle would.

Also hell yeah Ratstomper, or maybe even one of these hellboy styled ones
http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/8823/10030864_1.jpg?v=8CE70FE0DEEB350

Ah, That's pretty sweet lookin' too. :D

[Arkaiden]

I think 1-hit kills should be viable for sniper rifles with headshots and also kills from behind with knife certs.

Direction detection is too inconsistent in online games. 1-hit backstabs would create so much rage when it keeps happening to people's faces.

[Ratstomper]

Direction detection is too inconsistent in online games. 1-hit backstabs would create so much rage when it keeps happening to people's faces.

It would depend on how well the netcode works. I'm not even sure that there will be many opportunities for backstabs; there wasn't in PS1, unless you were an infiltrator (who have a bit harder time in PS2). The nature of the game won't allow knife executions very often, but it is a niche that should be filled with something besides something as awkward as shooting.

[Durandal]

Direction detection is too inconsistent in online games. 1-hit backstabs would create so much rage when it keeps happening to people's faces.

Their direction detection HAS to be good, tanks and aircraft have VASTLY differing armor values dependent on where they are hit

[OutlawDr]

You really can't compare tanks with players when it comes to directional hit detection. Vehicles are bigger and slower making vehicle combat much more predictable when it comes to hit detection, and much less susceptible to lag.

Players are tiny in comparison and can turn on a dime. That makes even a small lag hicup ultimately determine which side you hit. That same hicup would most likely not make much of a difference in vehicle combat.

[Shinjorai]

I hope they will add single shot rifles, im a big fan of the m14 myself. I plan to mostly play infiltrator anyways but some medic also and itd be nice to have the option.

[SergeantNubins]

I'm a little uncomfortable with the headshot stuff as it has the potential to unbalance things. I dont see any reason why LA shouldn't have an m14 style rifle.. other than the fact its generally impracticle for highly mobile troops to carry long barrelled weapons.. which is what im assuming the OP is referring to as a carbine is just a compact assault rifle.

What id like to see to balance things a little is that headshots alterred, if possible, so that if its against a target with heavy armour (and a fully enclosed helemt) then they cant be headshotted by anything other than a dedicated high powered sniper rifle (something like the equivalent of the barret in todays terms). Or perhaps allow certs/implants/gear that prevent headshots (or replace a headshot with a disorientating affect, sorta like surpression in BF2). So for example, if you take reinforced exosuit, you can trade your general shield for a reinforced helmet that is immune to headshots. I think this could help with some of the balance concerns of giving highly mobile units one hit kill long range weapons.

[Smokingrabbit]

its ok with me as long as the devs code such a weapon properly. This sounds alot like APB Joker. Basicly a rapidfire mouse gun. Because of rapid fire the weapon was just stupid OP.

Plz devs code weapons so rapid fire has no advantages.

[Durandal]

Plz devs code weapons so rapid fire has no advantages.

If they do that than TR will be at a severe disadvantage

More on topic, yeah I was thinking of guns like the M14, but the clostest thing i could remember was the covenant carbine, so i called them carbines. but they basically have the same in game function

[Smokingrabbit]

rapid fire meaning mouse rapid fire not assalt rifles

[OutlawDr]

Yeah the Covenant Carbine is the counter part to the human sides battle rifle in Halo. Not sure why they call it a "Carbine", other than maybe it sounds cool next to covenant.

[Vydofnir]

I'm a little uncomfortable with the headshot stuff as it has the potential to unbalance things. I dont see any reason why LA shouldn't have an m14 style rifle.. other than the fact its generally impracticle for highly mobile troops to carry long barrelled weapons.. which is what im assuming the OP is referring to as a carbine is just a compact assault rifle.

What id like to see to balance things a little is that headshots alterred, if possible, so that if its against a target with heavy armour (and a fully enclosed helemt) then they cant be headshotted by anything other than a dedicated high powered sniper rifle (something like the equivalent of the barret in todays terms). Or perhaps allow certs/implants/gear that prevent headshots (or replace a headshot with a disorientating affect, sorta like surpression in BF2). So for example, if you take reinforced exosuit, you can trade your general shield for a reinforced helmet that is immune to headshots. I think this could help with some of the balance concerns of giving highly mobile units one hit kill long range weapons.

I don't expect the headshot mechanic to result in one-shot kills across the board. If I remember correctly from the E3 footage it took at least a few headshots to bring down a MAX, and I wouldn't be surprised if it took a couple to bring down a HA. Margaret Krohn also talked about directional armor during the day 2 footage with Totalbiscuit (see 56:30 in the link below); it's a bit difficult to tell whether she is referring to both infantry and vehicle armor or exclusively the latter, but the fact that she says "depending on what armor that person is wearing" leads me to believe that there will be location specific armor pieces/upgrades/sidegrades for infantry. If that is indeed a feature, I would imagine that reinforced helmets would be an option.

http://youtu.be/viKwpkC_P9s

[Zebasiz]

Asked and answered in MMORPG stream, There are single shot rifles. among other types. :D

[Biohazard]

Asked and answered in MMORPG stream, There are single shot rifles. among other types. :D

Didn't we already know this? It was in the E3 vids...
Look here at 0:47:30

Planetside 2 E3 Stream - Day 3 - (feat. Totalbiscuit and Margaret Krohn) - YouTube