Spotting. (The best solution to a good mechanic).

[Toppopia]

After commenting in the Spotting Thread, i decided to post my version, probably the most elegant solution to a very distressing topic.

I think the only spotting we need is a person being able to place 1 marker where he is aiming, it doesn't follow anyone, and if he marks another spot, the previous marker disappears so that you don't get spammed by these things, and it tells your nearby friendlies "I spotted something over here, unknown number of hostiles. Or you want to mark an area of interest for your squad to move to, you can mark the ground. This sounds better than most automatic spotting that follows an enemy.

Add so you can place different colored markers. Tap the button once to place red marker to say enemy, danger, warning etc. Double tap to place blue marker for 'area of interest'. And maybe a triple tap for green marker for 'move here' but thats what a blue could be used for.

All feedback is good feedback. (Except for the bad feedback.)

And i would have put this in the idea thread but i didn't know if it was good enough to go there. And plus more people will see it here and maybe a dev.

[NewSith]

After commenting in the Spotting Thread, i decided to post my version, probably the most elegant solution to a very distressing topic.

I think the only spotting we need is a person being able to place 1 marker where he is aiming, it doesn't follow anyone, and if he marks another spot, the previous marker disappears so that you don't get spammed by these things, and it tells your nearby friendlies "I spotted something over here, unknown number of hostiles. Or you want to mark an area of interest for your squad to move to, you can mark the ground. This sounds better than most automatic spotting that follows an enemy.

Add so you can place different colored markers. Tap the button once to place red marker to say enemy, danger, warning etc. Double tap to place blue marker for 'area of interest'. And maybe a triple tap for green marker for 'move here' but thats what a blue could be used for.

Post suggestions so we can get an awesome system for the devs to implement.

/Idea Vault

Other than that, spotting works fine. I mean, making you able to spot only 1 enemy removes the whole purpose of spotting.

I mean that's what you're also implying, right?

[kasiraghi]

I think it's sort of obtuse that all these threads start off on the premise that you know better than the system that the devs are going to implement (before we even know for sure what that is).

Having said that, is it really so unbelievable that a short-term, moving spot wouldn't track targets?

Yes, I think them crowding the screen is wrong, and that spots should only appear on your 2D map but, ffs, in other games you get ridiculously obvious (once you know the terrain) markers on maps when people FIRE weapons, let alone are spotted by enemy troops... and those never come across as OP imho. It's about pinpointing troops using visual and audible cues.

People seem so opposed to this 3D spot, but once you do get used to maps, and distances relative to your mini-map it's very easy to track people. You're never going to be firing into a hill because you couldn't work out that a mark on the mini-map wasn't perfectly on your horizontal plane.

Also, multi-tapping for different kinds of spots would just get far too irritating, and be over-complicated imho.

[Toppopia]

I think it's sort of obtuse that all these threads start off on the premise that you know better than the system that the devs are going to implement (before we even know for sure what that is).

Having said that, is it really so unbelievable that a short-term, moving spot wouldn't track targets?

Yes, I think them crowding the screen is wrong, and that spots should only appear on your 2D map but, ffs, in other games you get ridiculously obvious (once you know the terrain) markers on maps when people FIRE weapons, let alone are spotted by enemy troops... and those never come across as OP imho. It's about pinpointing troops using visual and audible cues.

Its the best solution that i can think of until we see what the devs have done, so until then all we can do is propose ideas and try to think of better ways to do stuff, like that resource denial thread and such.

[Otleaz]

The suggested system would be lovely. Things like this encourage VOIP communication and teamwork.

"Spotting a sniper"
"Enemy tank heading east from my mark"
"All units, enter from my mark and attack point c"

The spotting that the devs want to use will probably just end up being a point whore gimmick. Not to mention the fact that 10 guys have you on their hud just because someone pressed a button on you.

[maddoggg]

My opinion is that 2D spoting must be on and 3d spoting should either be off or if it's in the game,it should be like OP suggested,basicly like tribes ascend's 3d spoting,where the spoting marker stays at the place at which you spoted the target and it cant be used as wallhack or a n00b tool to help your aim.

I can be ok with more advanced 3d spoting(similar to bf3)ONLY if it's a customization option ONLY for the recon class(and by customization option i mean a trade off).

[kasiraghi]

...Not to mention the fact that 10 guys have you on their hud just because someone pressed a button on you.

Why is this so ridiculous?

For me, it's fairly realistic and not OP. This is a system that lets ppl nearby know without the requirement for comms (maybe because they're not in a squad, maybe because they don't have a microphone too).

Also, these 'spots' probably aren't going to be wandering about alone? On your other point, it ENCOURAGES teamwork by letting people who spot get an advantage for their team-mates.

There are a large number of ways this could be done, and for all we know there's a BETTER system already employed.

[PredatorFour]

Sounds good but make it only for sniper/infil class to use. Don`t let any other class use the spotting mechanic.

[Otleaz]

Why is this so ridiculous?

For me, it's fairly realistic and not OP. This is a system that lets ppl nearby know without the requirement for comms (maybe because they're not in a squad, maybe because they don't have a microphone too).

Also, these 'spots' probably aren't going to be wandering about alone?

There are a large number of ways this could be done, and for all we know there's a BETTER system already employed.

So make it so the spot is stationary, and doesn't follow people.

[ThermalReaper]

I think a good spotting mechanic would be similar to battlefield 2. You scroll through the commo rose, saying that you've spotted a tank/squad near this location. It brings a last seen marker, like deus ex or splinter cell OMG SO MUCH ACTION or conviction as ubisoft named it. No need for the later battlefield's terrible mechanic of being able to track your guy's movements for 5 centuries because he stuck his toe in your general direction.

[Toppopia]

Its funny how no one is talking about the other use i have for the marker, being able to co-ordinate your friends, instead of saying:

"Move over there!"

"Where?"

"There, near that rock and tree."

"What rock? I don't see anything except for a tree and a tank"

"Its past the tank dammit, just go"

"Wouldn't it be easier just to place a blue marker for me."

"WHAT!! I can't hear you over the sound of a Liberator about to bomb us.. oh.... *BOOM*"

[PredatorFour]

So basically you mean like we used to use waypoint markers when we were SL`s in planetside??? AMS is here .....(marker) . Its exactly the same and probably will be in the new game.

[ThermalReaper]

Oh, I just re read that. Really good idea. Support.

[Otleaz]

So basically you mean like we used to use waypoint markers when we were SL`s in planetside??? AMS is here .....(marker) . Its exactly the same and probably will be in the new game.

Great! Now we can remove that terrible spotting system.

[Rago]

We need Good 3d Spotting for Orbital Disruption XD

[Kalbuth]

So basically you mean like we used to use waypoint markers when we were SL`s in planetside??? AMS is here .....(marker) . Its exactly the same and probably will be in the new game.

Good, but please, not through the map. It would be bfar better to be able to place a marker through HUD

[deltase]

When i played BF2 as a squad leader, i used to put attack marks, so that my squad knows where to look at cause the 2D spotting didnt give you an accurate position (which is good btw). I got irritated by 3D spotting in BFBC2 cause it's a legitimate wall hack. I think putting a mark, which cant follow the spotted dude and letting people from your squad or platoon to see, is a good solution for a spotting mechanic. It doesnt give away so much information except letting people to know in what general direction they should expect the enemy.

[Antivide]

Temporary 2D spotting and 3D spotting that only places a marker at the location that you were spotted.

2D and 3D spotting should not track you whatsoever.

[TAA]

So many options.

The most common are:

Spotting puts a 3D marker over the enemy for a few seconds. The marker is not visible behind cover. The enemy appears on the minimap.
Spotting puts a 3D marker over where the enemy was at the time of they were spotted. The marker lasts for a few seconds. The spotting marker appears on the minimap.


Either way the next question is: who can see the marker? Is it your entire faction? Is it only the people in your current voice comm channel? Are we destined to fight in a sea of 3D markers?


What I would prefer is something different:

If you spot someone they appear on the minimap for everyone in your faction to see.
Your character also yells out some variation of "Contact X!", "Sniper Spotted X", "Armor Spotted X", etc where X is a compass direction in relation to your own character. What you yell out is audible to other players within a certain range of your character only.
Squad leaders and only squad leaders can 3D spot targets, but only other squad leaders in your faction can see those 3D markers, and only if they are in line of sight of those markers.

[Knotz]

with upwards of 600 people on your team, you'd have to make this a high level cert so that you wouldn't be spammed by the sheer number of markers (even if only 1 marker is set by each player, thats an awful lot of markers)

Id say yes its a good idea... but make it a high level infiltrator/LA cert

[Snipefrag]

Sounds good but make it only for sniper/infil class to use. Don`t let any other class use the spotting mechanic.

This is the exact mechanic that i think will work best, gives infiltrators another real niche in the battle.. We've taken away a lot from them with regards to hacking, let them be a really useful tool to scout ahead for outfits.

Maybe regular troops can spot and they show on 2D map, but only infiltrators have advanced spot.. It could even be part of their tree and eventually you can even pull up the enemies health over their head as well as a location marker.

[Malchance]

This is basically what they did for Battlefield 2 with the Commo rose, and it worked great. The fact that they made it spammable in BF3 was a pretty big let-down, and I wouldn't be adverse to seeing it make a modified comeback for PS2.

That said, this should really be in the idea vault. No offense.

[Stardouser]

This is basically what they did for Battlefield 2 with the Commo rose, and it worked great. The fact that they made it spammable it BF3 was a pretty big let-down, and I wouldn't be adverse to seeing it make a modified comeback for PS2.

That said, this should really be in the idea vault. No offense.

BF2 only had 2D spotting though, and that's fine. I'm just pointing out that BF2 was 2D, see the 3D Spotting thread for all the problems of 3D spotting, and also the fact that only 17% voted for it.

It's important to make this distinction because some people seem to think that we are against spotting of any kind just because we don't want 3D spotting, and that is not true at all.

[Zenzos]

I think if 2D spotting is implemented, given the verticality of the game as far as i could tell, it would need an aproximate height of the target.

If 200 people are fighting inside and on a multilevel building the mechanic would become useless. I have seen this in other games that exclusively use 2d spotting.

A 3d spotting might be a problem if implemented in a bf3/bfbc fashion.

Often you did not need to see the player iself but just point to his rough direction to get a spot. Scanning a area spamming q was a viable option to be sure you saw every hidden player. If just a small area was visible to you (sometimes it worked even thou you couldn't ) everyone could see him.

You would see a lot of people just spamming the spot key at a base not seeing anyone but still getting a lot of spots.

If 3d spotting is implemented it has to be a very short spot in my opinion.
Maybe the Infiltrator should get a cert to improve the time of his spots.

[Stew]

NO 3d spotting is the Only solution

3d spotting is noob and anoying Bf3 should have get rid of it especially from the aricraft perspective

Anyway i dont want any sorts of 3d spotting anoying red dot at allll

[theBreadSultan]

Personally I think 3d Spotting will add a good tactical layer.

I see no reason why it should be limited to a particular class.

The key would be that the spot has a definitive range.
So while you can spot from far away, the 3d spot is only visible to faction members within a definitive radius of the enemy.
Though on the minimap it shows any and all.

[wasdie]

I definitively don't want a BF3 style spotting system, but I think there should be a cert for recon which allows a single recon player to broadcast the static spotted position both on the map and in the game world with a 3D position (like BF3) to all players in the same squad (at a certain cert level) or within a certain radius (higher cert level).

They would have to give up quite a bit of their certs to be able to spot and everybody in the squad and from a radius could see just the static spot.

NO 3d spotting is the Only solution

3d spotting is noob and anoying Bf3 should have get rid of it especially from the aricraft perspective

Anyway i dont want any sorts of 3d spotting anoying red dot at allll

"Is noob" is probably the worst argument I've ever seen for a mechanic that breaks down tons of logistical issues with communication in multiplayer FPSs that has plagued the genre forever.

"Is noob" implies that you believe archaic and cumbersome mechanics are more "hardcore" than mechanics that streamline a lot of the outdated mechanics. It doesn't imply that in messes with the balance, breaks the fundamentals of the core gameplay, is a very cheap mechanic that gives those using it a fair advantage... no, it implies that you believe that you are to "hardcore" for that mechanic.

As has been brought up several thousand times in this forum, complex gameplay mechanics that stem from technological limitations or a lesser understanding of how systems can work together are not better or more "hardcore". If anything they are problematic and make games more frustrating often adding a layer of difficulty that should not be there in the first place.

3D spotting ends a lot of issues that arise with large amounts of players working as a team in an FPS multiplayer environment. Communication issues arise even when there are 5 people playing together. 3D spotting was nothing more than a slight extension to mechanics found in ealier FPSs where you could see the position of the enemy on a minimap or a larger map of the arena. It eliminated the need to take your eyes off of your crosshair thus improving the ability for a player to say engaged in a game without distractions. It broke down communication barriers of having to manually type out positioning of enemies due to hardware or game mechanic limitations (limited VoiP, no microphones, team size to large for voice/text chat) and allows players to work together more efficiently.

Dismissing it as "is noob" proves that you are looking at everything from the context of "older is better" or a conservative approach that doesn't acknowledged the obvious flaws brought in with certain gameplay mechanics. Also it looks at games out of the context of being tools of entertainment and looks at them in the context of an environment that caters to only a small niche audience.

[NewSith]

Excuse me for being a prick, but "if 2d spotting is implemented" is an invalid sentece. Even the original game had 2d spotting.