What happened to the Squad Leader class or equivalent of?

[MasterChief096]

I remember SOE stating that you'll be able to spec out fully as a squad leader. Does anyone know how this will actually be done? Early in development, I assumed it was its own class, but now I assume its like its own cert tree, but what class uses it? All of them? Is it like a secondary cert tree that you can level independent of class?

[Exmortius]

from what i understand it's still it's own certs probably separate from the normal cert points. they confirmed squad spawn is a cert from it. i would guess some form of orbital strike would also fall in line with that waaaaaaay down the commander cert path. but that is one area they haven't talked much about to my knowledge so it's still very much up in the air.

[Bags]

It was never a class, it's cert based.

[PhoenixDog]

It was never a class, it's cert based.

^ This

[kaffis]

As Bags said, and to elaborate on that, it's a cert tree that does not require using a certain class to utilize.

We know that certs related to squad spawning (including, probably, gaining the squad spawn ability in the first place) will be within it; the devs have also indicated that certifications in the squad leader tree will enhance a player's ability to create missions, though it's likely that it's not final exactly how they'll do that, since the player created mission system is still in, at most, a very malleable stage of development.

[Ratstomper]

I'm not sure I like the idea of the command trees sharing the same cert point pool with everything else. The whole point of CRs in PS1 was that it encouraged you to get experience leading a squad to gain ranks and abilities. PS2 will have even more things that a squad leader can do to be effective. I wonder if it will have an adverse effect on squad leaders in general.

[Xaine]

As has been mentioned, the 'Squad Leader' role is based from within the Cert Tree.

[kaffis]

I'm not sure I like the idea of the command trees sharing the same cert point pool with everything else. The whole point of CRs in PS1 was that it encouraged you to get experience leading a squad to gain ranks and abilities. PS2 will have even more things that a squad leader can do to be effective. I wonder if it will have an adverse effect on squad leaders in general.
I'm not bothered by it. If CR has any useful actual abilities (as global chats and OS did), it will just be seen as additional advancement, the same as it was in PS1.

As such, I think it's fine to make "young" squad leaders take their squad leader development out of their non-squad leader progress.

Pick what you want to do, and cert for it. If that's leading squads, and the squad leader certs give you tools you want access to -- that's something you're bringing to the squad, just as much as certing to use vehicles more effectively or whatnot. It shouldn't be a parallel advancement path. Making it a parallel path would imply that everybody needs them.

[MCYRook]

The whole point of CRs in PS1 was that it encouraged you to get experience leading a squad to gain ranks and abilities.
You didn't have to actually display any leadership capability to gain CR in PS1 either. You just had to be squad leader, then get as many people as possible in that squad, and just kinda be around when your empire caps bases.

In both games, you have to sacrifice some XP that would otherwise go towards your various other certs to get ahead in CR. And in both games, ultimately everyone will have CR5 (or its equivalent) just because there's nothing else (or nothing more useful) for you to level up.

(The twist in PS2 is that they want to make sooo many certs and be able to go sooo deep in them that it's totally uncommon for a character to have ALL of them. Well, we'll see. PS1 devs certainly didn't envision there to be more CR5s than non-CR5s either. ;) )

[GreatMazinkaise]

You didn't have to actually display any leadership capability to gain CR in PS1 either. You just had to be squad leader, then get as many people as possible in that squad, and just kinda be around when your empire caps bases.

In both games, you have to sacrifice some XP that would otherwise go towards your various other certs to get ahead in CR. And in both games, ultimately everyone will have CR5 (or its equivalent) just because there's nothing else (or nothing more useful) for you to level up.

(The twist in PS2 is that they want to make sooo many certs and be able to go sooo deep in them that it's totally uncommon for a character to have ALL of them. Well, we'll see. PS1 devs certainly didn't envision there to be more CR5s than non-CR5s either. ;) )

It's entirely possible (even probable) that command certifications must be slotted *instead* of some of the normal class certifications.

[Baneblade]

I think squad leader abilities should all be tied to an armor class. I'd say Light Assault without the jetpack, but rather the backpack. It really bothers me that the old CR5pam thing isn't truly going away. The orbital strikes alone will be worth getting and everyone will.

[Xyntech]

I think squad leader abilities should all be tied to an armor class. I'd say Light Assault without the jetpack, but rather the backpack. It really bothers me that the old CR5pam thing isn't truly going away. The orbital strikes alone will be worth getting and everyone will.

But if you have to temporarily not use some class certs because you want to use command certs, it may balance itself out.

I like the idea of embracing the fact that everyone may have access to orbital strikes instead of trying to balance it as a rare commodity. That never works. It didn't work for BFR's and it didn't work for Orbital Strikes. Better to balance it with the assumption that everyone may have access to it.

If I need to specially modify my cert loadout to use command abilities, that's not very different from having a command class. I certainly won't want to use those certs when I'm not commanding or orbital striking, so most of the time I'll probably be running around with more useful class specific certs. Then, if I need to, I can swap to my commander loadout (in my commander class of choice) and do what I gotta do.

[neonlazer]

I remember SOE stating that you'll be able to spec out fully as a squad leader. Does anyone know how this will actually be done? Early in development, I assumed it was its own class, but now I assume its like its own cert tree, but what class uses it? All of them? Is it like a secondary cert tree that you can level independent of class?

Chief is a noob!!!!!! :D There are command certs...you can cert in command.or cert in weapons...your choice!

[Quovatis]

Cert-based, for any class:
http://www.hamma.ws/ntemp/Infantry/CommandRank.jpg

[Morphic]

Wonder if the big death ray is gonna be the only squad WMD

[kaffis]

Wonder if the big death ray is gonna be the only squad WMD
In an interview, Higby mentioned that they want to do empire-themed "orbital strikes." Presumably, big laser from the sky for Vanu, massive cratering projectile for NC, hail of MIRV warheads or something for TR... or something like that.

Orbital strikes will cost resources to use, and might be restricted to only be used by squad leaders.

[SergeantNubins]

Higby did say that orbital strikes will be faction based - the traditional beam laserbeing the vanu, artillery for TR and he didnt elaborate on what the NC one was.

He also said they would cost resources to use.. but that the strike itself was customisable - area of effect, duration etc. The bigger the strike, the bigger the resource cost and it would come with a hefty cooldown.

[Sifer2]

I think it would make more sense as its own class as well. Just so they have a unique appearance, and you could aim for the officer to prevent squad spawns. How silly is it going to be to have an Infiltrator or Light Assault Squad leader getting into silly flanking positions, and calling down a team of Heavy Assaults/MAX's? Even worse if several squad leaders do this together.

I also agree that just using regular cert points to level it up seems wrong as well. I don't expect this to change though as I think its just part of their F2P model. You can earn points from doing anything an paying real money to unlock anything. Become a master pilot by sniping people. Become a Colonel by repairing a tank. Silly but that's how its set up now.

[kaffis]

How silly is it going to be to have an Infiltrator or Light Assault Squad leader getting into silly flanking positions, and calling down a team of Heavy Assaults/MAX's?
Cooldown.

[Sifer2]

Cooldown.


So? 3 Light Assualt squad leaders hop on an important rooftop, and call down 30 MAX's with a few Engineers. Good luck getting them off of there. Maybe they wont allow MAX to drop via pod. Either way I can see letting any class type be SL causing some silliness.

[kaffis]

So? 3 Light Assualt squad leaders hop on an important rooftop, and call down 30 MAX's with a few Engineers. Good luck getting them off of there. Maybe they wont allow MAX to drop via pod. Either way I can see letting any class type be SL causing some silliness.
No, 3 LA squad leaders hop on an important rooftop, and call 3 MAX's down. Everybody else notices, and kills all 6 of 'em with air strikes before the minute is out, let alone before the cooldown is expired and more can be called in.

The end.

Note that this can be done more efficiently with a precision Galaxy drop.

[Xyntech]

I wonder if we will be able to abuse squad spawning to have 9 command certed players spawn in on an infiltrator, then immediately switch back to their own individual squads and have 81 other players squad spawn in.

[kaffis]

I wonder if we will be able to abuse squad spawning to have 9 command certed players spawn in on an infiltrator, then immediately switch back to their own individual squads and have 81 other players squad spawn in.
Oh, come on, Xyntech.. You're smarter than this. ;)

[Xyntech]

Oh, come on, Xyntech.. You're smarter than this. ;)

I know some easy ways to prevent it, but if they aren't in place at the start of beta it's going to be a lot of fun to try this.

It's not like we can't do it with 10 cloaked squad leaders instead of one, but a single one would be so much more fun.

I really hope MAXes can't squad spawn though. I think a restriction like that wouldl go a long way towards keeping Galaxy drops more useful. Heavy Assault and below should be fine though, even if you do have a ton of commanders all spawn their squads in at once.

[Dart]

It's simple; in PS1 they tried to ensure leaders would be competent.

In PS2 they will ensure leaders are dedicated.

Is this an improvement? I'm not sure. I lead my clan & Empire in PS1 but I also enjoyed fighting. I'm hoping that I'll be able to do both in PS2.

[kaffis]

I will say that I hope that, for a squad leader certed player, the act of squad spawning on his squad's current leader will trigger his own squad spawn timer, so you can't just shuffle squad leader positions around.

I give the devs credit enough to assume they've thought of this, though. ;) That said, as you point out, if they haven't, we'll catch it quick.

[Dart]

I will say that I hope that, for a squad leader certed player, the act of squad spawning on his squad's current leader will trigger his own squad spawn timer, so you can't just shuffle squad leader positions around.

I give the devs credit enough to assume they've thought of this, though. ;) That said, as you point out, if they haven't, we'll catch it quick.

I feel that squad-spawning should be a CERT whether you're SL or not. That way, if you have a squad of vets who've put the time in and prioritzed it over other certs; sure, they can all spawn on each other. It's another perk of customization.

[kaffis]

I feel that squad-spawning should be a CERT whether you're SL or not. That way, if you have a squad of vets who've put the time in and prioritzed it over other certs; sure, they can all spawn on each other. It's another perk of customization.
Yes, it should be a cert. However, even if the whole squad has certed in it, doesn't mean it should be useable willy-nilly. Cooldowns. Useful for reinserting your medic if he dies, etc.

Not just "insta-squad, wherever I am!!!"

[Dart]

Looked like there was a flat 5 minute timer on it at E3. My point is it should not just be restricted to the sl.

[Dacrim]

If it were restricted to the squad leader i think it could add to the tactics involved in winning. Killing the leaders will be a higher priority than just killing the members

[megamold]

I'm not sure I like the idea of the command trees sharing the same cert point pool with everything else. The whole point of CRs in PS1 was that it encouraged you to get experience leading a squad to gain ranks and abilities. PS2 will have even more things that a squad leader can do to be effective. I wonder if it will have an adverse effect on squad leaders in general.

so you would rather there be hundreds of cr5's in a couple years time with 90% of those being totally useless ?

as in ps1 the good commanders will just come to the foreground out of merit instead of an arbitrary number.
i'm pretty sure that a week into ps2 you will be able to name all the good commanders on your faction and maybe even some on the enemy side. just from having played with or against them.

[Arcticus]

As with everything else in the game (certs), the game will allow you to unlock it with time/effort/money. Whether you know what to do with those abilities is something for your outfit to determine.

I freely admit I don't know anything and the only thing I'll know at release is whatever I learn during beta.

[qbert2]

The NC OS will be like a FF summon. A 100 barrel space shotgun will descend from the sky,but it won't be able to get close enough to the ground because of a tree, therefore it's spread will be too much so it won't hit anything. ;)