Outfits limited to 100 players, Org unit larger than Outfits?

[The Degenatron]

According to this article on ARS Technica (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/06/planetside-2-offers-a-new-take-on-the-persistent-shooter/) Outfits will be capped at 100 players and there will be a higher organizational unit over multiple outfits.

Here's the quote:

Players will still be able to group together to share experience points generated by group efforts, forming into Squads of up to 10 soldiers and multi-squad Outfits of up to 100 players. Publisher Sony Online Entertainment is also working on an even higher level of player organization that will contain multiple Outfits, we're told. Players still earn Certification Points to unlock new abilities and increase proficiencies in those abilities, and there will be Warp Gates which connect different maps so that players can move freely from battlefield to battlefield.

Is there an official word on this?

[Graywolves]

100 people isn't much...

[Pyreal]

100 in an Outfit? That's not enough!

.. is it true?

10 in a Squad
30 in a Platoon
?? in an Outfit

[Goku]

That sounds confusing. Sounds like he is talking about platoons not actual clans/outfits...

[Cuross]

I think I heard mention a while back somewhere (video? post?) where they were going to open up outfits at 500 players. Maybe it was an AGN stream, can't remember but I swear I heard it! If anyone else knows what I'm talking about then maybe they'll have better luck finding the source.

But I would agree that 100 is way small, I remember the days when we could easily cover a third of that just in a platoon, so I can't imagine it being that tiny.

[DirtyBird]

Oh this will be entertaining until its clarified.... popcorn:

[SKYeXile]

the way its worded sounds like its the wrong info or confused or something. i cant see them building a massive game and not having massive outfits.

Unless you need to buy more outfit slots for larger outfits and the base one is 100?...i dont know.

[Turdicus]

ya I don't know it sounds like he confused outfits with platoons. I've heard numbers at 30 and 100 for platoon size. I'll go all in on that assumption.

[Xyntech]

I'm guessing that platoons will be 30 players and Outfits will be unlimited players, or at least have a very high cap. For now, I'm just taking some of that stuff as inaccurate information unless I've heard it confirmed in a lot of different places. But just the opposite, we've heard more consistently that platoons will be 30 players, and not much in the way of mention of limits on outfit sizes.

How else will the zergfits work if they can't have a ton of members? :p

But at worst, I guess 100 could be the outfit member limit until you buy more member slots, as Sky hypothesizes.

[SKYeXile]

forgot to carry the one, he means 1000?

[Top Sgt]

I think I heard mention a while back somewhere (video? post?) where they were going to open up outfits at 500 players. Maybe it was an AGN stream, can't remember but I swear I heard it! If anyone else knows what I'm talking about then maybe they'll have better luck finding the source.

But I would agree that 100 is way small, I remember the days when we could easily cover a third of that just in a platoon, so I can't imagine it being that tiny.

yeah i remember that on stream also it was said to be 500 to start.. and they would see beta and release and adjust it higher if necessary etc.

[MonsterBone]

So DevilDog1 DevilDog2 DevilDog3 DevilDog4 lol wheres the problem

[Hamma]

I'm not sure where they got that info we haven't heard of any such limits. Definitely need a Dev to drop by... ;)

[fod]

thats a really low number

we really need some definite info about how squads/platoons/outfits are going to work because there hasnt really been that much reliable information on it

theres also this http://venturebeat.com/2012/06/18/sonys-free-to-play-online-shooter-planetside-2-will-pack-2000-players-in-an-arena-interview/ "We’ve got platoons that let you form together squads of 10, and you can get 10 squads of 10 together, you have a platoon of 100 people playing together. Then you have an outfit of 500 to 1000 people"

[Eyeklops]

I could understand 100 players if they have an organizational level that can tie multiple outfits together, like a "company". Then each outfit can spec out in a specific area and still be part of a larger group. So you can have an outfit called Phantom Guard that has outfit perks in tanks, and another called Wind Wraiths that perks air, all tied together under the company Ghosts of the Revolution. But, like Hamma said, I have heard of no such plans. Devs?

[BigBossMonkey]

It's more likely they confused the term Outfit and Platoon.

[Baneblade]

Would be kind of difficult to have any decent ops when you can only have 100 members...

[Tatwi]

In Star Wars Galaxies the cap was 500 players and even in 2011 we were having to remove players who hadn't logged in the last 90 days. Granted, you could have 2 characters per server in SWG, but that's still at least 250 actual people in the guild - in an old game like SWG. There was a guild on the European server that actually broke in two, because they were able to maintain well over 500 fairly active members.

In Everquest II right now, The Crafter's Union on Freeport has 391 unique accounts (Man I LOVE the EQ2 guild management system. It is THE best in the industry, bar none!). Sure, many of us don't log in every day (in my case some times not even every month), but it's nice to know that we can come back into the game and still part of the gang. I think that's the important thing here, fostering the community spirit by encouraging people to identify themselves as being part of a group.

For player associations on the social level, 100 people is simply not enough and looking at your own line up of MMOs, SOE, should be evidence enough for you to agree. However, from a tactical perspective smaller groups would, of course, be more effective in practice (unless you've got 500 people who are very good about logging in at the same time, shutting up, and following orders). With these things in mind, I'd like to suggest the following player association structure for PS2 (military jargon omitted for clarity - call these groups whatever you like).

Guilds
- 1000 Players.
- Tied together by social or friendly bonds.
- Player determined "ranks"/subgroups, based on how players in the guild wish to organize themselves.

Groups
- 100 Players
- Guild agnostic groups of individuals.
- Created exclusively by players as well automatically by the mission system.

I think this would allow for the most "organic" player associations, without all that emphasis on "gamey-type" systems like World of Warcrafts "groups of groups" raids. With this simple system players will be able to make a "home" with their guild friends while still retaining the ability to quickly team up with any other 100 people in the game for that particular gaming session.

[SKYeXile]

there is no reason to have alt characters in this game though, remember that. unless you're playing another empire.

[Zolan]

I don't care either way, just don't call them groups and guilds... :(

[Notser]

I believe a dev said in a interview outfits would start at 500 and they would see if they needed to bump up that number

[OutlawDr]

It's more likely they confused the term Outfit and Platoon.

This.
We could use some of that dev clarification right about now

[Tatwi]

there is no reason to have alt characters in this game though, remember that. unless you're playing another empire.

In Everquest II right now, The Crafter's Union on Freeport has 391 unique accounts.

It's really easy for player associations to rack up unique members in online games. Identifying with your association plays a large roll in player retention, because for many people those personal bonds far exceed the draw of the game play alone.

[MrSmegz]

I believe a dev said in a interview outfits would start at 500 and they would see if they needed to bump up that number

I know I head this too somewhere, maybe Hackney? I was watching interviews but couldn't find it. I do distinctly remember hearing 500-1000 being mentioned.

[Nemeses]

100 would not be enough, if they looking to cap outfits it needs to be around the 250/300 mark minimum.

Although most modern mmo seem to cap at around 500.

[Roy Awesome]

I'm hoping it's not 100 per outfit. TEST is going to need more outfits if that's the case.

Our PS1 outfit is ~150 players. I'm expecting ~500 in each of our outfits between Open Beta and Release

[Voltar]

guildwars 2 has had the same goofy-low limit of 100 for guilds in the beta weekends. like planetside2, they're also having guilds/outfits "level" and i'm assuming the same thing here.

100 player cap doesn't mean you can't raise that cap through. i'd have to assume that number can either be increased substantially or it's complete bs.

kinda funny how both games are sequels and will have large groups of people already formed on release day.

[MrTinkles]

Oh God....calm down....it's just a magazine article...

And read the rest of it. It's mostly just a rehash of info you could get from any public source (even this forum) plus some vague or even downright wrong speculation.

This is not some ITK guy...whether he mixed up outfit with platoon or just doesn't know...

[Figment]

Oh this will be entertaining until its clarified.... popcorn:

Can I haz some of that popcorn plzkthx?


It's a number people, can be changed by feedback. Devs should realise that if there's a limit to an amount in one outfit, they will just create a second outfit with a digit behind it. And then a third and so on and so on.

Look at the CSA in world of tanks.

http://worldoftanks.eu/community/clans/#wot&ct_order_by=-members_count&ct_search=CSA

[Zidane]

100 sounds wayyyyy too small. Im thinking that 500 sounds more realistic.

[Kran De Loy]

Pretty sure there was a Stream with Ghosts of the Revolution that said it was gonna be 500 with room to grow.
Where that mag got their info is beyond me.

[Notsononymous]

If you can have max 2000 people on a server at any one time (666 per faction) then 100 is actually huge... Unless I misinterpreted the server system.

[Marsgrim]

I am pretty sure they are just mixed up with platoons.

[XLynxX]

If you can have max 2000 people on a server at any one time (666 per faction) then 100 is actually huge... Unless I misinterpreted the server system.
The original Planetside (don't know if you played it, but from your post I get the feeling you didn't), there were clans of 1000 people like GoTR, BOOM, 666 DD. Even small clans had above 100. That was with a game that had around 400-500 (because they kept changing the cont pop limit) players across the entire continent, not just one empire.

100 isn't much, 100 people actively online at the same time is a lot yes, but not for numbers in an outfit overall.

[ringring]

If you can have max 2000 people on a server at any one time (666 per faction) then 100 is actually huge... Unless I misinterpreted the server system.

That doesn't follow....
200 people per continent is 2000 people online at that time.

But, you won't have eneryone in your outfit online at any one time, not even close.

[SKYeXile]

If you can have max 2000 people on a server at any one time (666 per faction) then 100 is actually huge... Unless I misinterpreted the server system.

yea but to have 100 people online you need like a minimum outfit size of 150 going upto around 500 for more casual outfits.

[SniperSteve]

Outfits were previously said to be 500 players.

[MCYRook]

I am pretty sure they are just mixed up with platoons.
This.

It doesn't make sense to talk about shared XP between squad members à la PS1 and then suddenly bring outfits up in that context.

[Noivad]

A lot of the PS1 outfits had more then 1 alt toon in it that was trained in a class type role. Not unique accounts. In the orginal ps1 before merging you could have 6 toons on your account for just one empire. 18 if you used all the slots for all the empires. It was impossible to cert all the certs in once toon class type.

This is not the case for PS2, where each account will be allowed 6 classes to train on a single toon. An outfit that was 600 people in PS1 may be only 100 in ps2.

And No I am NOT saying everyone had 6 toons, just stating it was possible to have that many, so actual outfit numbers in PS1 should be held suspect.

Thats said I don't see outfits having the same numbers in PS2 as in PS1. I know that the majority of players in my outfit had multiple toons that they played every once in a while.

A lot of the PS1 outfits kept people who stoped playing the game so their numbers may have been high but their active accounts were probally lower then they would like you to think. " I have 1000 members in my outfit", but only had 30 people who were active.

Some people have to have a lot of numbers to prove to everyone that they are great leaders. But its not the number of people you have its the quality.

To me 50 people taking or holding a base because they utilize organized teamwork is more impressive then 300 people running around with no leadership.

My Outfits had a 60 day kick policy, so we only showed people who were active in a 60 day period. Think I will make that 30 days for PS2.

If I can get 10 people on every hour of the day, every day of the week, 52 weeks of the year, then I will meet my minium goal. Three or four full platoons at prime time, would be a blessing.

To accomplish that you need to have 300 people. All very active players. So anything over 300 players is just gravey. :evil:

[Xyntech]

I'd like to see outfits be able to have at least 1000 players. Eventually there will be more continents, so we could have servers that allow for up to 10,000 players to be playing at the same time. That means several times that number will have characters on that server.

[Baneblade]

I'm not aware of any outfit that reached the member limit for an outfit in PS1. I'm almost certain the 666th broke 2000 members at some point in 2004.

[The Kush]

He means 100 per platoon he is confused obviously never played planetside

[Xyntech]

He means 100 per platoon he is confused obviously never played planetside

And that is wrong as well, since most reliable sources tell us that PS2 will have 30 man platoons.

Quite facepalm worthy, all in all.

[PhoenixDog]

From everything I have ever read on this site and in the news, it's squads at 10, platoons at 100. In the article, they say multi-squad Outfits. This is of course the wrong wording. They're referring to multiple outfits forming sizes of 100, of course referring to platoons.

Edit: Hell, Xen of Onslaught had over 250 members back in PS1, and we were small compared to other VS outfirts like GoTR and AT.

[CuddlyChud]

We’ve got platoons that let you form together squads of 10, and you can get 10 squads of 10 together, you have a platoon of 100 people playing together. Then you have an outfit of 500 to 1000 people, which is like a large clan. It really is taking what’s traditional FPS gameplay and expanding it to a very large level. We think gamers are going to like that.

Taken from Smedley interview at http://venturebeat.com/2012/06/18/sonys-free-to-play-online-shooter-planetside-2-will-pack-2000-players-in-an-arena-interview/2/

[PhoenixDog]

Taken from Smedley interview at http://venturebeat.com/2012/06/18/sonys-free-to-play-online-shooter-planetside-2-will-pack-2000-players-in-an-arena-interview/2/

This.

/Thread

[Dagron]

calm down....it's just a magazine article

This.

[Gonefshn]

seems counter productive to limit outfits when other games don't do this and PS1 didn't do that. Forcing 100 player limits would force splits for established outfits from PS1. It would suck to not "make the cut" and get into the outfit you used to be in because you were slow on the draw and it filled up.

There is no way they will limit outfits to 100 people. I have heard bogus things stated before by ignorant people writing previews.

I'm not even slightly worried about this one.

[Littleman]

Here's a thought:

Squad = 10.
Platoon = 30.
Outfit/Company = 100.
Battalion/Regiment = 300-1000.

Someone like myself would call this line of thought, "thinking outside of the box."

[kaffis]

Here's a thought:

Squad = 10.
Platoon = 30.
Outfit/Company = 100.
Battalion/Regiment = 300-1000.

Someone like myself would call this line of thought, "thinking outside of the box."
Copying standard military organizational levels is thinking outside the box?

[Inverness]

Here's a thought:

Squad = 10.
Platoon = 30.
Outfit/Company = 100.
Battalion/Regiment = 300-1000.

Someone like myself would call this line of thought, "thinking outside of the box."

Copying standard military organizational levels is thinking outside the box?
I do agree that having a higher level organization, like a battalion or regiment, for outfits should be possible. That way there can be divisions with different rank structures for different roles within the outfit for things like spec ops, normal infantry, armor, air, etc.

I'd also like it if ranks weren't strictly linear and you could have two or more adjacent ranks for describing a player's role in the outfit if necessary.

[Arovien]

Is this real life? NO!

100cap aint happening.

[Stew]

According to this article on ARS Technica (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2012/06/planetside-2-offers-a-new-take-on-the-persistent-shooter/) Outfits will be capped at 100 players and there will be a higher organizational unit over multiple outfits.

Here's the quote:



Is there an official word on this?

If its true i agree with this it will be better to see division alliance whittin our empire so peolple will work toghueter as a empire not just as an outfit

[Littleman]

Copying standard military organizational levels is thinking outside the box?

In the context of how everyone expecting the term "outfit" in this discussion as expected to be equal to what Planetside 1 offered - that is, clans that most definitely may recruit more than 100 people tops - my answer is yes ;)

An outfit here doesn't necessarily have to retain the same definition it had in Planetside 1. I think it would be cooler if battalions/regiments could be broken down into outfits/companies/divisions and at that level is where outfit certifications apply.

This would make it easier for larger battalions to organize all of their outfits, without actually needing to make a new outfit as we understand the term in the classical sense to cover all of their members preferred play styles. Everyone can still play under the same battalion, but there's wriggle room for them to belong to a specific group within that clan that caters to the way they want to play Planetside 2.

Just as an Example, the Battalion would be Xen of Onslaught, and they could set up a tank outfit, several infantry outfits, and an airborne outfit. Mind you, they wouldn't select the outfit type right off the bat, like with player characters, they'd be molded into such.

Capping the outfit player numbers would also prevent a battalion from abusing the privileges of shuffling troops around as they see fit, say should they find they need a butt load more infantry for example. They could set up an additional outfit for infantry once they fill their existing rosters, but it won't bring the same perks right away like their currently existing outfits already designed and certified around infantry combat do.

On this note, capping the number of outfits to no more than 10 per battalion (100 players per outfit, 1000 players in a battalion) might prevent battalions from setting up a multitude of spare outfits and working them up simply in case they ever need to use them.