Reloadtitis

[ThermalReaper]

Alright, a topic about reloading. I'm surprised no one but a few mentioned that the Reload times are much longer than your standard "3 second reload is an ice age" in games.
Positive or negative?

Author(Not really)'s note: Reloadtitis means the act of constantly reloading even if you are one round short from having a full magazine/clip.

Author's note 2: I'm asking if this is a good or a bad thing in YOUR opinion. Do not start a flame war over what's better than what, please try not to refer to CoD or any other shooters with generally low reload times.

Author's Note 3: RAINBOW!

[RovingDeath]

I reload whenever it feels safe to do so, because of that glacially slow reload time. It's definitely saved my ass before. You never know when you will need that one last round...

I will say that having that longer reload time encourages people to aim a bit more carefully and actually makes reloading a decision.

[LZachariah]

I always prefer the realistic reload wherein, if you have a 30-round magazine, fire one shot, and then reload, you've just thrown away 29 rounds. Most games don't interpret it this realistically. Battlefield 2142 did (loved that damn game). In the end, this isn't a big problem for me either way, but the realistic-reload is my preference.


~Zachariah

[ThermalReaper]

I should have picked another thread title. :P
It's about the reload time itself. The title is just a terrible humor attempt. What do you feel about it? Too long or too short? Thanks for the honest replies anyways. :)

[xnorb]

I'm all in for a bullet-count rather than a mag-count.

* High TTK
* Many enemies around
* Not a whole lot of cover

Of course either way would also work, but it would be damn frustrating to
run out of ammo just because you were forced to throw away a clip as
it held too few bullets for a successful encounter.

EDIT - okay, i got tricked into a wrong answer :)

Regarding reload times:
CoD reloading is stupid
CoD+sleight of hand is even more stupid
15 seconds reloading on the contrary also doesn't increase the fun

3-4 seconds for ~30 bullet clips sounds good.
8-10 seconds for MGs with 100+ bullets

[Otleaz]

I always prefer the realistic reload wherein, if you have a 30-round magazine, fire one shot, and then reload, you've just thrown away 29 rounds. Most games don't interpret it this realistically. Battlefield 2142 did (loved that damn game). In the end, this isn't a big problem for me either way, but the realistic-reload is my preference.


~Zachariah

That isn't realistic at all. Ammo doesn't somehow disappear after it has left your gun. If you take it out of your gun and put it in your ammo pouch, next time you check, it will still be there.

I mean who is stupid enough to throw an entire magazine away because you used one bullet?

[Stew]

This isnt a simulation game

second realoding everytime you can is part of any fps and it should stay like this in planetside 2

i found no use in this topic so yeah

THEY will not change it anyway

[Infernalis]

Hum the reload time seems to be ~3 seconds for assault rifle and longer for lmg (just like in BF3).

Planetside 2 E3 Stream - Day 3 - (feat. Totalbiscuit and Margaret Krohn) - YouTube look at 15:47

I don't want slow reload nor fast, you have to find a balance where you are vulnerable while reloading but not too much. Actually I like BF3 and others games with tactical reload, if you have 0 bullets left it takes a longer time to reload as you have to put a bullet in the chamber.

[Reizod]

I'm guessing there will be upgrades/certs that would lower the reload times. Which would make it on par with other current FPS games.

[zomg]

The reload speed seemed alright to me based on the videos.

Talking about interesting reload mechanics..

Day of Defeat had a mechanic where you essentially just replaced a half-empty clip/magazine. The half-empty one went back into your "pool" and once you ran out of all other mags, it would then give you the half-empty ones.

In Red Orchestra 2, you actually don't even know how much ammo you've got in your clip. You can check it, but it gives only an estimate in the style of "It's about half full" or "It's almost empty". The only way to know the exact number of bullets left is to count how many you shoot.

[kaffis]

I was fine with the reload times we've seen. I could even go a little slower, particularly if it meant an awesome/cool reload animation and/or interesting gun design.

I love the Vanu circular disc-type thingies we've seen, for instance. If animating a reload for that meant a 5 second animation instead of a 3-second one, and it was accounted for in the weapon balancing, that's a-okay by me.

[therandomone]

If you want to be "realistic", what what about reload time for VS energy weapons?

[Cufox]

It just occurred to me, big "duh" here, but there is no need to rerack when swapping mags from a weapon with a round in the chamber. That should save at least a half second. It is the little details that make things interesting.

[AThreatToYou]

Reload times should be long enough to where a faction-specific adjustment would be meaningful. For example, TR weapons might have the shortest reload time because they either a) want the most bullets down range so less down time is better or b) have tested, proven & trained their weapons & soldiers specifically to reload (and fire) faster.

[Pozidriv]

Well long reload times will help at slowing down run & gunners since you are vulnerable for a longer time. This might also help promote the use of sidearms, since they will most likely have a fast draw speed.

I would like to see reload times being fairly uniform between weapon types, as in SMG's: 1-2,5 sec AR's: 2-3,5 sec LMG's: 8 or so sec Pistols could be the fastest of the bunch.

ASP - Black Ops Multiplayer Weapon Guide - YouTube

A pistol like the ASP in BLOPS (i know it sounds silly :D) would be sweet, low cap, low recoil with nice damage upclose poor at range and a speedy reload. (im not talking about the sleight of hand pro 0.85 sec reload madness on the vid :D)

[Eyeklops]

Somewhat off topic. It would be cool if the idle animation was loading a magazine.

[Policenaut]

When I was watching the E3 demo, I noticed some of the guns with smaller clips seemed to have sizable reload times.

[Xyntech]

I sometimes slip into compulsive reloading. I'm happy with the longer but not too long reload times we saw at E3. If there are certs to speed it up, that's cool too.

If someone reloads unnecessarily at the wrong moment and dies because of it, fuck em. But at the same time, I don't think the game should specifically set out to punish people for doing that. It should be like people who ADS no matter how close the enemy is, in that it should be stupid and unnecessary, but if they want to do it, let them.

Some guns take longer to reload, some take shorter. Die enough times because you were reloading, and you'll probably learn to stop with the reloaditis on longer reload guns, or stick to quick reloading guns. I think PS2 is striking a good balance.

I wouldn't be in favor of making all reloads be super speedy, or increasing all reloads to be even longer though. It seems like a good balance where it's at. Any cert to speed it up would come at the expense of equipping another cert that did something else useful, so it would all be fair.

[Sabot]

Long enough to almost force you to find cover when you're reloading, or you'll be very vulnerable. But not so long that after you find cover you have to wait 3 seconds more for it to reload.

for example... if you're standing in the open, shooting, and suddenly your guns noises go from "bang bang" to "click click", and you start to reload... the reload time should make you feel very vulnerable out in the open.
But if you have some sense of how many bullets you have left while shooting, and start making your way to cover before you actually have to reload, you can start reloading, duck behind cover and then get up almost immediately and start shooting again.

[TAA]

IMO reloading is one of the main causes of player death. Everyone has to reload, and for that period they are almost completely vulnerable. The better players know how and when to use cover or movement to reload and when to switch to pistol instead of reloading.

Long reload times are fine with me, as long as they are not so long that they discourage most up close fighting. Ie. If I cant reload quickly enough in a mid-range fight by ducking behind a pillar then I would be forced to engage from longer ranges to guarantee safety when reloading.

The reload times from the videos seemed to be perfect.

[ThermalReaper]

Hmm... I wonder who bumped this.

[gufftroad]

I don't mind long loading times. I've actually timed my self and practiced a lot with reloading my AR15, i have gotten a fast time of just under 4 sec mind you this at a range not in a combat situation under fire and i have not received any military training. Any reload time around that time seems generally okay to me.

[HeatLegend]

I'd prefer it at at least three seconds, it will make each bullet feel like it counts. I like realism.

[gufftroad]

When I was watching the E3 demo, I noticed some of the guns with smaller clips seemed to have sizable reload times.

all the guns i have seen in this game use magazines
clip =/= magazine

sorry but there is quite a large difference and I'm ocd about it

[megamold]

I'd prefer it at at least three seconds, it will make each bullet feel like it counts. I like realism.

i'm pretty sure a modern day soldier can load his gun in less then 3 seconds :)
especially if the clip is empty since he will drop it, a half empty clip would be put back in the vest, so that would take longer.

[Arovien]

Longer reload times gives slightly more depth to simple reloading. Perfectly fine.

[gufftroad]

i'm pretty sure a modern day soldier can load his gun in less then 3 seconds :)
especially if the clip is empty since he will drop it, a half empty clip would be put back in the vest, so that would take longer.

you reload a weapon with a clip by lining up ammunition and pushing it into an internal magazine if you have a half empty clip you haven't fully reloaded your weapon. and you generally throw clips away after use as they are tiny pieces of metal

if you mean magazine then many magazines have a lip at the top which you have to put in first this prevents the magazine from accidentally falling out it also means you can't drop it out with gravity and requires more time to be spent removing it

tl;dr clips aren't magazines and 3 seconds is a REALLY fast reload

[Ratstomper]

I actually like slower reload times. I've seen youtubes of (real) guys reloading CRAZY fast: but they're the exception, not the rule. I think slower reload times help mitigate the more twitchy gameplay that alot of people don't like and helps to support more tactical gameplay: waiting until a lull in the action to reload, taking cover to reload, making your shots counts, etc.

[Senyu]

Ignoring simulation or realistic comments and counter comments, it needs to be what fits the gameplay of PS2. Personally I think it would be better for the gameplay if its a little slow so it requires you to plan when to reload and think about it instead of doing it willy nilly. Not saying it should take forever but enough that if someone caught you just as you reload or you decide to reload in a fight, your vulnerable.

[Policenaut]

you reload a weapon with a clip by lining up ammunition and pushing it into an internal magazine if you have a half empty clip you haven't fully reloaded your weapon. and you generally throw clips away after use as they are tiny pieces of metal

if you mean magazine then many magazines have a lip at the top which you have to put in first this prevents the magazine from accidentally falling out it also means you can't drop it out with gravity and requires more time to be spent removing it

tl;dr clips aren't magazines and 3 seconds is a REALLY fast reload

I think most people have been on the internet long enough to know that a clip isn't a magazine and usually use "clip" for brevity since everyone knows what they're talking about, we don't really need to derail the thread for semantics.

[Gonefshn]

Love slower reload. As it has been stated I agree it makes you take your ammo more seriously. Reloading is a part of the gameplay. It is part of the moment to moment decisions you are making to be an effective player. If you reload in one second then whats they point of even having it in?

I'd love some certs for faster reload time but nothing like slight of hand in COD. Just a very slight reload time decrease for a small advantage.

[Vamoozi]

Anyone else read the thread name as Reloadtits?


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[ThermalReaper]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22599916.jpg

EDIT: Yeah, I don't want to look like an idiot who keeps bumping so I'll add something.
Someone suggested a Bar that appears when you reload and you press the R button at the right time it shortens the reload time. If you press it at the wrong time, the time increases or stays the same. Yay or Nay in your opinion?

[Russ]

5-10 second reload time i am comfortable with. Its realisting (i know moot point, its a game but its still true) but isnt so long that you get into that oh crap moment. I think its a fair time.

[Otleaz]

Someone suggested a Bar that appears when you reload and you press the R button at the right time it shortens the reload time. If you press it at the wrong time, the time increases or stays the same. Yay or Nay in your opinion?

That would be lovely, but this isn't a console. You don't even need to be a hacker to run a macro that will do this for you.

[ThermalReaper]

That would be lovely, but this isn't a console. You don't even need to be a hacker to run a macro that will do this for you.

I seriously wish to take a pencil and shove it up some hacker's butthole. They Ruined Undespited galaxy, they ruined planetside reserves, they ruined warrock and countless other games.

[Littleman]

In an old, old Half-Life mod called Firearms, magazines tracked the ammo left in them. Reloading was a little time consuming, but there was a skill available to greatly enhance it. This game even knew to chamber a round when reloading with an empty barrel.

The thing is, the character never just chucked the magazine, but they didn't track ammo in the traditional fashion. Fire off a few rounds and reload, somewhere through the reload cycle you'll come back to that 16 round magazine you used some time ago.

Firearms also had bleed effects, broken legs that needed a splint, etc. Game was way ahead of it's time in terms of "realism." People opted for Counter-Strike simply because it was much easier to get into.

However, while I personally found Firearm's reloading system to be pretty cool and thoughtful, for the sake of making the game a FUN FPS for MANY people, like with Counter-Strike I think sticking with the traditional reload mechanics of magically topped off magazines would be for the best. I justify slower reload times with discouraging run and gun gameplay and encouraging picking up weapon certifications that improve one's weapon control, including reload speed.

[Nemises]

have a look at the way the guys at interstellar marines are doing it (http://www.interstellarmarines.com/)...there's a demo of their shooting mechanic called "bullseye" (uses the unity in browser engine..well worth a play)...anyway,

..basically, if you reload with a round still chambered then there is a shorter load process than if you let it run dry (have to chamber the first round of fresh mag)..

..I also prefer the "throw away a full mag = loose the rounds" school of play

[Sirisian]

It's about the reload time itself. [...] What do you feel about it? Too long or too short? Thanks for the honest replies anyways. :)
I prefer reload times that are "long". That is where throwing a grenade or pulling a secondary weapon or retreating is necessary. 3-5 second reload times for rifles and 2 second reload for pistol would be what I'd expect. Especially for TR weapons with their high cap magazines and drums. I would not be against reload times over 5 seconds for certain weapons.

Sabot covered this well:
Long enough to almost force you to find cover when you're reloading, or you'll be very vulnerable. But not so long that after you find cover you have to wait 3 seconds more for it to reload.

for example... if you're standing in the open, shooting, and suddenly your guns noises go from "bang bang" to "click click", and you start to reload... the reload time should make you feel very vulnerable out in the open.

Okay also onto the bigger issue of why people reload when they're missing one bullet. There is no penalty for doing it other than the time. We have many threads related to creating a sane reload system for magazines.

Limited Ammo Thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=37230). (old thread before the resource system).
Ammunition (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=38611)
Implausible Reload (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=38896)
Why the community hates active reload (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=38881)

Okay so once you've read those:
I always prefer the realistic reload wherein, if you have a 30-round magazine, fire one shot, and then reload, you've just thrown away 29 rounds. Most games don't interpret it this realistically. Battlefield 2142 did (loved that damn game). In the end, this isn't a big problem for me either way, but the realistic-reload is my preference.

Of course either way would also work, but it would be damn frustrating to
run out of ammo just because you were forced to throw away a clip as
it held too few bullets for a successful encounter.
That isn't realistic at all. Ammo doesn't somehow disappear after it has left your gun. If you take it out of your gun and put it in your ammo pouch, next time you check, it will still be there.

I mean who is stupid enough to throw an entire magazine away because you used one bullet?
This was discussed in those threads. Solution:

Also in that limited ammo thread I, along with others, discussed ways to cycle ammo between magazines if players wanted that option. For instance, by sorting magazines by ammo such that pressing R reloaded the most full one. Tapping R cycled down the available magazines and holding R would unload the bullets of the most empty mag into the most full magazine to top it off continuing down the list. A progress bar would indicate the progress. This allows a rather seamless system for managing magazines. If you get a new magazine, for instance from looting, it would just go to the top of the queue. There might be a maximum number of magazines a class can hold.


Lastly some of this comes down to the game underutilizing the resource system. Ammo is currently a free thing that players take for granted when respawning. We have dozens of threads now where people have suggested a stronger resource based system that allows people to customize down to how much ammo they spawn with. I digress, use the search function to find out more.

[Envenom]

I really love games that use the clip system as mentioned earlier in this post. It gives a cool sense of realism and makes you think twice before randomly spraying. I used to play BF2: Project Reality and they used this system. I remember it being very fun.

99% of games use the bullet system, which is ok... it's a concession to make the game faster paced. Does that make it better? I don't think so, though you're free to disagree. I'd love to see a clip system used in PS2.

[Malorn]

Reload times are a good way to differentiate guns. From the streams I saw pistols having a very fast reload.

If they want to discourage "reloaditis" an easy way to go about it is the Day of Defeat method, where any rounds left in a magazine when you reload are lost. It keeps unnecessary shots to a minimum and gives value to guns with large magazines, and penalizes players who reload too quickly and don't make shots count. It's a bit more on the realistic side with player carrying magazines not a giant bucket of bullets that magically load themselves. Then again, nanites.

[Bravix]

Reload shouldn't be any faster than 3 seconds, as that's pretty fast. The reload speeds on COD are a joke at best.

As far as reloading when there's still ammo in the mag, do it like ARMA. You keep the mag, but the ammo doesn't magically spread out to the other mags. Eventually, if you keep reloading partial mags, you'll end up with a bunch of partials.

Example:

Start with 5 mags that hold 30 bullets each.
You fire shots, reload a partial mag, repeat.

You end up having a mag with 1 bullet, another with 2, another with 5, another with 4...you get the idea.

Realistically, you wouldn't just toss a partial mag...but you certainly wouldn't have the time to transfer the ammo to another mag.

[LazyBonez]

I'm guessing there will be upgrades/certs that would lower the reload times. Which would make it on par with other current FPS games.

This

Each gun has its own cert tree to upgrade the reload speed.

[Malorn]

There's also different types of reloading (tactical vs speed) and gun mods to facilitate faster reloads (like redi-mag, jungle-style).

Here's a good video showing tactical, speed, and redi-mag reloads.

302 Found

I could see things like expanded magazines and jungle style as customization options to allow more rapid reloads. Could even style it up, with NC Jungle style being the traditional two-mags-taped-together, the TR with a more manufactured approach with something like a redi-mag, and the VS with like a dual power cell or something of that nature.

In the video the tactical reload was 6-7 seconds, while the speed reload was only 3 seconds. The redi-mag was 2.

Even if they don't recycle mags or anything of that nature I'd like to see reload speed as a customization option. Implant is an obvious option and would fit well, but perhaps gun customization is also available in the form of expanded magazines or a redi-mag type solution.

[RovingDeath]

http://sleekupload.com/uploads_jpg/25/n38916014_32191408_5231.jpg

That's a clip up there; magazines are the enclosed things we use in most modern firearms.

To the point though, I like systems where you don't automatically reload your magazines to magically have a full one every time you reload no matter what, but I also think that turns a lot of people off.

If you really want to justify the magically full magazines, you could always just say we have some capacitor full of nanites that charges them when they aren't in the weapon. Like a battery charger that's part of the character's armor.

[gufftroad]

http://sleekupload.com/uploads_jpg/25/n38916014_32191408_5231.jpg

That's a clip up there; magazines are the enclosed things we use in most modern firearms.

To the point though, I like systems where you don't automatically reload your magazines to magically have a full one every time you reload no matter what, but I also think that turns a lot of people off.

If you really want to justify the magically full magazines, you could always just say we have some capacitor full of nanites that charges them when they aren't in the weapon. Like a battery charger that's part of the character's armor.
THANK YOU glad to see im not the only one ocd about this

[RovingDeath]

THANK YOU glad to see im not the only one ocd about this

You sir, are very welcome.

[SKYeXile]

I say clips instead of magazines when referring to magazines because it makes people rage.

[Xyntech]

I say clips instead of magazines when referring to magazines because it makes people rage.

Why call them anything other than clips at this point? Everyone knows what you are talking about when you say clip. Not everyone knows what you mean when you say magazine.

Be universally understood and get free entertainment in the process? Yes please.

[Stew]

Its a game who cares about recycling the magazine ? I want 3 second reload time MAX and also the entire (( loose unuse bullets )) is stupid and dont fit in planetside 2 This isnt a simulation game its a Semi arcade shooter This isnt a simlator its a SCI-FI arcady shooter and its good this way

[RovingDeath]

Why call them anything other than clips at this point? Everyone knows what you are talking about when you say clip. Not everyone knows what you mean when you say magazine.

Be universally understood and get free entertainment in the process? Yes please.

I say clips instead of magazines when referring to magazines because it makes people rage.

You guys are dicks =P

[Sirisian]

Its a game who cares about recycling the magazine ?
Some of use feel it's a better gameplay mechanic and puts players in a different mindset when reloading. That is reloading is more than a thoughtless process one does every second.

[...] the entire (( loose unuse bullets )) is stupid and dont fit in planetside 2
Planetside 2 is an FPS game. There are two basic methods for bullets. Ammo pools and magazines. Both would "fit" into Planetside 2.

This isnt a simulation game its a Semi arcade shooter This isnt a simlator its a SCI-FI arcady shooter and its good this way
I can't speak for everyone, but personally I don't think this isn't about arcade or simulations. You even said yourself Planetside 2 is a "semi-arcade shooter". So what's the other half? Simulation? If that's the case then you've already admitted even under your own rules it would fit. Also it being a science fiction game bears very little importance to the discussion.

This is just a very large bias for me. I prefer seeing +1 Magazine when standing next to an ammo pack or building a load out and seeing the number of magazines I have as "4 Magazines" and not "120 Bullets". That and I really like the idea of limited ammo and managing magazines. For most players it won't be a big deal, but for extended fights I'd really like in game systems to throw magazines to friendlies. Some of my more advanced resource posts revolve around this concept also so the sooner we have it, the better.

[frigamache]

This is what I thought of when I read the thread title, I'm not sure what its really about tho.

Boob Reload - YouTube

[somers]

I am hoping for a slightly slower than BF3 reload speed for most weapons, but I do like the tactical reload in which the reload speed is barely slower because you have to chamber a round.

[Sirisian]

I am hoping for a slightly slower than BF3 reload speed for most weapons, but I do like the tactical reload in which the reload speed is barely slower because you have to chamber a round.
We had a thread based on that (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=39405). It's slightly why in a few threads I commented that we need energy bullets in a standard magazine for the VS to keep things somewhat similar. The idea of redoing all the VS guns though is probably not something the dev team is up for.

[gufftroad]

you wouldn't call a toilet a sink

why call a magazine a clip they aren't the same thing

there is an old Chinese saying "the first step to wisdom is calling all things by their right name"

[Ratstomper]

you wouldn't call a toilet a sink

why call a magazine a clip they aren't the same thing

there is an old Chinese saying "the first step to wisdom is calling all things by their right name"

If you're using a sink in a similar fashion as your toilet, then the last thing you should be worrying about is the difference between a clip and a magazine.

I understand the OCD about clips vs magazines, but language is an evolving thing and whats most popular is usually what sticks. Only gun nuts and former military know the difference between clips and magazines. Part of being a critically thinking individual is being able to discern what someone is talking about. Part of being an courteous human is not sullying the discussion with trivialities that don't have anything to do with the discussion itself.

[Vreki]

I suppose longer reload times could encourage people to stay with their squad, so someone can cover them while they reload.

[RovingDeath]

If you're using a sink in a similar fashion as your toilet, then the last thing you should be worrying about is the difference between a clip and a magazine.

I understand the OCD about clips vs magazines, but language is an evolving thing and whats most popular is usually what sticks. Only gun nuts and former military know the difference between clips and magazines. Part of being a critically thinking individual is being able to discern what someone is talking about. Part of being an courteous human is not sullying the discussion with trivialities that don't have anything to do with the discussion itself.

And this is how we get to the way people speak in Idiocracy. One of the scariest damn movies I've ever seen.

[CutterJohn]

I like that the longer reload will make finishing someone off with your pistol viable, rather than just reloading.

Edit: Its a clip. Language changes. You lost. Stop crying about it.

[infected]

the idea (of slow reload times + partial mags not magically refilling) can work.

looking back it reminds me of another game i loved. america's army. that game was slow paced, had friendly fire, and wasn't you average arcade shooter you see today with cod clones.

another game that has this right now... DayZ.

interesting decisions are made when you reload before a mag is empty and you end up with like 3 mags with 5-10 bullets in each of them, and the game doesn't just magically consolidate the ammo into one full mag for you.