Should the numbers be even for each class

[asdar]

HA, Engr, LA, Med, Max, Infil

I probably won't ask this the right way, but here goes. Say there's 600 players should they even out at 100 each?

100 infiltrators seems crazy to me, but if there's not 100 does that mean the class is underpowered?

All averages here, not meant to mean should they force this.

Max's, LA, HA I see as pretty even numbers.
Engr and medic I see as separate, but the two of them even.
Infiltrator the smallest number.

What do you all see as the optimum class distribution.

[Ratstomper]

I think HAs and LAs will be the most commonly played classes and I think that's how it should be. Can't fight the war without the grunts. The nature of engineers and medics and infiltrators (and MAXes too) being more specialized means they won't need to be a prevalent as the basic combat classes.

That said, there's plenty of overlap among most of the classes. They can all fight pretty effectively in addition to their specializations so it leaves a lot of wiggle room for what is required and what is actually in the field.

In order of most common to least common for what I think will be most effective:
LAs and HAs
MAXes
Engineers
Medics and Infiltrators

[PhoenixDog]

I can't see this happening. Why limit what we play? I plan on being Light Assault most of the time in game, and hardly ever (if ever) a MAX. I was always in Agile in PS1 and hardly ever spec'd into MAX. My cert points will be into Light Assault and maybe a bit of Engie/Medic. I don't plan on being a heavy gunner of any sort as it's never been my playstyle in shooters.

So with that said...If I die and suddenly there are no more LA's available...Why limit me in what I spec'd into and enjoy playing, for something I don't enjoy and will hinder my outfit/faction? Not to mention if HA's can't pilot vehicles...What if I need to spawn as LA to bring out a vehicle my outfit needs at that time?

[Senyu]

I see more playing LA and HA the most but I don't think each class has to be equal in numbers nor have a limit. Versatility is strength in this game and if 100 people went into one class they would all die pretty easily due to having to counter only 1 thing. In a game like this I really wouldn't worry about to much of one class having the most because they will all have their roles and players who will use them.

[zomg]

I propose Highlander

[Gonefshn]

Need more support roles.

Definitely don't need as many infiltrators. Snipers aren't going to push the line very much.

HA will be very important, more so than MAX I would say.

[Ratstomper]

Why limit me in what I spec'd into and enjoy playing, for something I don't enjoy and will hinder my outfit/faction? Not to mention if HA's can't pilot vehicles...What if I need to spawn as LA to bring out a vehicle my outfit needs at that time?

I don't think were talking about enforced class amounts, just optimal class variety.

EDIT: That said, it will also highly depends on the situation. We'll need more engineers in vehicle battlefields than in more infantry based ones, for instance.

Need more support roles.

Definitely don't need as many infiltrators. Snipers aren't going to push the line very much.

HA will be very important, more so than MAX I would say.

Snipers have just as much of a job in pushing a line as any other infantry. The difference is that snipers can be alot more effective with smaller number for softening defenses than HAs/LAs can at pushing a battleline.

[Alduron]

There should be the exact amount of each class that is needed.

I would imagine at 10 people per squad you'd have a general squad makeup (no specialization) of something like:
1-2 Medics
1-2 Infil
1-2 Engineers
1-2 MAX
1-2 LA
Fill empty with HA

So in a lot of squads you could run something like:
1 INF 1 MED 1 LA 1 ENG 1 MAX 5 HA
1 INF 2 MED 1 LA 1 ENG 2 MAX 3 HA
2 INF 1 MED 2 LA 2 ENG 1 MAX 2 HA

TL;DR: You want DPS classes with sprinkled support where needed.

[super pretendo]

just because massing one type of unit is a bad idea doesn't mean the unit is bad. Just make the infiltrator have a niche

[Ratstomper]

just because massing one type of unit is a bad idea doesn't mean the unit is bad. Just make the infiltrator have a niche

Currently, I see infiltrators keeping slightly ahead of the squad to sabotage base defenses and soften hardpoints with sniperfire and gadgets. Then once they get to an objective, the infiltrator will probably be the hacking specialist. Just because they're "snipers" doesn't mean they'll only be crouched on a hill outside a base like in PS1.

[Gonefshn]

Snipers have just as much of a job in pushing a line as any other infantry. The difference is that snipers can be alot more effective with smaller number for softening defenses than HAs/LAs can at pushing a battleline.

They definitely serve a role in pushing the line but if you have too many it creates stagnation thats why they should be fewer.

[Jennyboo]

You forget how much each class can customize to meet the player style I think that will help even things out.

[kaffis]

In the sense of "watching metrics to alert us to balancing problems?"

No, I don't think even class distribution is optimal, nor should it be. Infiltrators are a niche, and that's okay. HA will probably be the backbone of most diversified and flexible squads, and that's alright, too.

I could easily see a good platoon leading an interior assault comprise 9 HA, 6 MAXes, 5 Engineers, 4 Medics, 4 LA, and 2 Infiltrators, and that being considered a very solid and well-rounded lineup.

I'd hate for observers or devs looking at a distribution like that and saying "Hmm. HA is obviously way OP, look how many people are playing it and how few Infiltrators there are!"

[Gonefshn]

You forget how much each class can customize to meet the player style I think that will help even things out.

True. Classes have more than one role so to speak but ultimately you will want the medics to actively heal and revive, the engineers to pay attention to MAXs and vehicles and repair. People to drop ammo etc.

The customization for weapon type wont change anything about the role. Ultimately I would hope to see people really play into their role and not decide to play medic and run and gun ignoring others.

[jabber]

each team will have 300 infiltrators all sitting in a dark corner of the map.

[Baron]

It will come down to each individual play style ...not an even split of classes. The infiltrator in PS1 was a role that took extreme patience. You usually would never see an even split of "roles" in PS1

[Solidblock]

I understand what you're trying to say, but I definitely think no such limits should be implemented.

[lolroflroflcake]

Youll have an equal number of people who are experts at their given class, but each class itself will fluctuate as new players try to find a class they identify with and people switch between what ever class has the weapon or ability that is the flavour of the month due to balancing.

[Luieburger]

Why would anybody even suggest this? Taking away players' freedom is the last thing we want to do.

[OutlawDr]

The OP is not advocating or even asking for our opinions on hard number limitations on classes.
Its asking us to think on optimal class distribution among players, and whether or not its ok if there is an uneven number of classes used by players.

Uneven class numbers is perfectly fine. Especially since its looking like that MAX will cost resources and be on a timer. Exact ratios will depend on the situation. Also you only need so many engineers and medics before they become redundant. Multiple HAs will never be redundant exactly, however adding a few medics and engineers into the mix will boost overall effectiveness. The trick is to find that sweet spot ratio for the particular situation.

[AirFell]

Shoulda started a poll on what classes people want to play the most.

I plan on being LA, but I know its pretty even across my whole clan.

[Otleaz]

each team will have 300 infiltrators all sitting in a dark corner of the map.

My magic 8 ball says:

"As I see it... Yes."

[GuyFawkes]

I predict ps2 to be similar to ps1 , and scatmax and purple crabs accounting for 50% of what the tr face each and every day :eek:

[Russ]

I dont think the numbers will be a constant X X X X X X, i dont think they should be. Each class has a different role to do. If my outfit is doing a base raid, i dont expect there to be as many Eng as HA.Sure having that placeable turret would be nice. But they are situation. Same goes for any class. The situation will dictate what is needed.

Of course many will have their favorite class and want to play them 24/7 but once the game gets older and people have branched into other classes many will switch to what is needed.

[Memeotis]

If I was leading a squad and I had to pick a standard composition it would be something like this:

3 HAs
2 LAs
2 Medics
2 Engineers
1 Infiltrator

I prefer for a squad to rely on mobility and quick thinking, rather than anchoring my squad to the slow, steady advance of a couple MAXs.

[Xyntech]

Let's not forget that some classes will be better for driving and/or piloting vehicles. This will throw numbers off quite a bit.

I see the engineer being the most affected by this, followed by LA and then HA. The rest of the classes I don't think will get used as much for driving/piloting, although the MAXes numbers will be adversely affected by not being able to drive anything.

If we ignore vehicles, I expect most of the classes to be pretty even, more or less. I think HA will get a lot of use as a good all around default choice to fall back on when players aren't sure what specific class skills they will otherwise need. Medics I think will be the least populated class, in high use among organized squads but extremely underused in more zerg minded groups.

I think MAXes would be pretty highly populated, except that due to their limitations I expect to see them mostly on defense, or the occasional assault. Their numbers will fluctuate the most, but in general, I don't expect them to get as much use as other classes.

Infiltrators will be a common class for idiots who think they are elite, but I don't think that will actually drive their numbers up as far as some fear.

LA seems like a pretty fun class to play, but I think HA's shield and AV abilities will be more appealing in an intense firefight for most players.

I don't think a classes population will show which is over or underpowered. I do think if a class is extremely underpopulated most of the time, that it would be worth the devs looking into, but that doesn't necessarily mean it needs to be more powerful.

[WorldOfForms]

Actually if support roles far outweigh the standard ones, that's a reason for the devs to look into it. If there are way more Medics and Engineers than HA and LA, there might be an imbalance.

Same with infiltrators and Maxes, really.

If there's an even spread amongst classes, obviously that's great. If HA and LA slightly or even moderately outnumber the other classes, that's also a non-issue.

Any other distribution should give the devs pause. I'm not saying it's necessarily a problem, but it's a good metric for saying "hey we should look more closely at this."

[TAA]

Currently, I see infiltrators keeping slightly ahead of the squad to sabotage base defenses and soften hardpoints with sniperfire and gadgets. Then once they get to an objective, the infiltrator will probably be the hacking specialist. Just because they're "snipers" doesn't mean they'll only be crouched on a hill outside a base like in PS1.

I think you are very very far off the mark. Yes good infiltrators will be in the action, but that is not the rule. Most people will be drawn to the infiltrator because of the sniper rifle. They will on top of a hill or tower so far away that even their best scopes barely let them see dots as their targets, and they will sit there trying to get headshots all day long doing nothing for the team. That is how almost every shooter goes. Unless a sniper is exceptionally good they are a waste of space, often defeated by something as simple as two medics running alongside each other.

[Eyeklops]

I think you are very very far off the mark. Yes good infiltrators will be in the action, but that is not the rule. Most people will be drawn to the infiltrator because of the sniper rifle. They will on top of a hill or tower so far away that even their best scopes barely let them see dots as their targets, and they will sit there trying to get headshots all day long doing nothing for the team. That is how almost every shooter goes. Unless a sniper is exceptionally good they are a waste of space, often defeated by something as simple as two medics running alongside each other.

Without killing targets, EXP progression will be extremely slow. This may deter terribads from playing the sniper class for too long. I think LA will be the most played class by newbies, mainly for the jetpack, which is something they don't get in COD or BF.

[Pepsi]

Without killing targets, EXP progression will be extremely slow. This may deter terribads from playing the sniper class for too long. I think LA will be the most played class by newbies, mainly for the jetpack, which is something they don't get in COD or BF.Nah, thinking in 3 dimensions is too much for your average terribad gamer. When they play as Infiltrator they don't even have to move and can get l337 headshot clips for their montage!

Kidding aside, I wanted to point out that LA and HA should outnumber the medics at least 2:1 each. I do agree that LA is probably going to be your "standard" soldier on the battlefield.

[AirFell]

Medics I think will be the least populated class, in high use among organized squads but extremely underused in more zerg minded groups.

^Always the case. Hell, if the occasion calls for it I've seen groups (in other games) use nothing but medics just for the revive (no need for respawn logistics) factor.

[gufftroad]

i highly doubt they would limit it a lot of their talking points in interviews is how the game is meant to be played how you want and how you feel comfortable hence all the customization why would they let you customize a class but limit how much you can play it

[Ratstomper]

I think you are very very far off the mark. Yes good infiltrators will be in the action, but that is not the rule. Most people will be drawn to the infiltrator because of the sniper rifle. They will on top of a hill or tower so far away that even their best scopes barely let them see dots as their targets, and they will sit there trying to get headshots all day long doing nothing for the team. That is how almost every shooter goes. Unless a sniper is exceptionally good they are a waste of space, often defeated by something as simple as two medics running alongside each other.

I think you don't have enough faith in planetside players. Remember that about half of the community here are PS1 vets who have experience with the importance of teamwork. The rest MAY try this at first, but with all the utility infiltrators offer, you'll find them choosing between using that utility and having fun or being squadless.

[Otleaz]

I think you don't have enough faith in planetside players. Remember that about half of the community here are PS1 vets who have experience with the importance of teamwork. The rest MAY try this at first, but with all the utility infiltrators offer, you'll find them choosing between using that utility and having fun or being squadless.

The PS1 community will undoubtedly be less than 5% of the PS2 playerbase, and that is being generous. If I had to put money on it I would lean closer to 1%.

[BigBossMonkey]

each team will have 300 infiltrators all sitting in a dark corner of the map.

Sweet rave party with laser attachments.

Noone can see the person wielding them, so just hundreds of lasers....


This would actually be really awesome.

[Canaris]

each team will have 300 infiltrators all sitting in a dark corner of the map.

I tried emocide, just couldn't get into it, as for the OP question. No, how can you even think of having a class cap in a game like Planetside it makes no sense and wouldn't work. This is a mmofps, people will do and should play whichever class they please.

[infected]

i hope the medic can hold his own in infantry combat, rather than being forced into a more support role like in tf2 and the like. im quite fond of how bf3 infantry medic gameplay works.

also, i wouldn't be surprised if ps2 removed the ammo box from LA kit and gives it to HA, since LA gets the jump jet, adding endless ammo makes it too self-sufficient (one man army playing his own objectives instead of with the team).

[Xyntech]

I tried emocide, just couldn't get into it, as for the OP question. No, how can you even think of having a class cap in a game like Planetside it makes no sense and wouldn't work. This is a mmofps, people will do and should play whichever class they please.

He didn't mean to have a class cap, he was just asking if all classes being evenly balanced would also translate to them having even numbers on average.

I think medics could actually be overpowered and still see some heavy use, while engineers could be slightly underpowered and still get used a lot to drive or gun for vehicles.

MAXes will be very situational, so sometimes they will be way under represented and sometimes there will be an overabundance of them.

Infiltrators should probably ideally be underpopulated due to their niche skill sets, even if they are well balanced with the rest of the classes, but will probably be average or possibly even overpopulated if too many players choose them for the 1337 snoipah factor.

I think the class balance is just too complex of a thing for the devs to track it's balance based only on how much they get used. If one class, vehicle or weapon is getting seriously underused, I would like to see something done about it because I don't like the idea of useless equipment, but that doesn't necessarily mean it needs a buff or that other things need a nerf. But I think there is still a range of utilization where something can still be slightly over or underused compared to other things and it still be okay as well. There are a lot of factors beyond balance that determine how much a player will use a class, and sometimes there is nothing that can be done to bring the usage to an even level with the other classes. Usually there is no need for them to be even either.

They just need to make all of the classes be as fun and balanced as possible on their own merits, and let the usage numbers work themselves out. Looking at how much or little a class gets used should at most be a warning sign to investigate further if it's usage numbers seem to be way off.

i hope the medic can hold his own in infantry combat, rather than being forced into a more support role like in tf2 and the like. im quite fond of how bf3 infantry medic gameplay works.

also, i wouldn't be surprised if ps2 removed the ammo box from LA kit and gives it to HA, since LA gets the jump jet, adding endless ammo makes it too self-sufficient (one man army playing his own objectives instead of with the team).

The devs have mentioned in interviews that medics will have the options of customizing to either be more dedicated to purely a supportive role, or towards more of a combat centric role with the supportive skills being pushed off to the side.

Also, at the moment the ammo box has been given to the engineer.

[SniperSteve]

The most versitile classes will be the most used. MAXs and Infiltrators are very specilized, so they will not see use on some occasions, contributing to the lower number of these classes. (which is good... too many infiltrators or MAXs would be a pain.)

[infected]

Also, at the moment the ammo box has been given to the engineer.

my advice to the devs... you're arguably giving the engy too many roles (responsibilities) and tools here. this could lead to engineer population that eclipses all other classes by far. see bf3 for example of this.

engy is already a popular support class with all vehicle operations, and MAX gameplay. why further its use by forcing more people to run engy to support all infantry (non-MAX) operations as well? thats the whole trinity right there!

i'd think the engy with ammo would cause problems (besides them being overrepresented). imagine you run out of ammo and you need to find an engy. engy now has so many possible roles. shouldn't that engy stick to what he is doing and you go find ammo from someone who isn't already preoccupied repairing stuff, or babysitting MAX's, or setting up defenses, etc? i mean give the guy a break. everyone is going to need ammo, but i don't see the engy as the guy who should be nominated to fill yet another role such as this.

as i see it, the HA seems the most logical choice for ammo box.

[Canaris]

as i see it, the HA seems the most logical choice for ammo box.

my feelings exactly, we'll have to see how beta pans out tho.

[RSphil]

no. let people play what they want. hate it when servers restrict stuff. thats why i dont play battlefield 3 anymore. too many rules spoil the game. i think people will play what is needed. spec if you are in an outfit ect.

the classes are so customizable that 100 infiltrators will be almost all different anyway. all depends on the players play style as mentioned.

[Xyntech]

I don't think you can really count the classes that are used a lot in vehicles as being overused just because of that. Engineers may get used more often in infantry combat due to the ammo resupply ability, but I still don't think that will make them be used that much more than some of the other classes.

MAXes can't be used in vehicles and medics will certainly not be ideal vehicle crew material. At the same time, there will be lots of vehicles running around. Just think of the vehicle as the class, and the engi or HA or LA driving it as a piece of support equipment.

Just worry about how much a class will be used purely in an infantry role. I'll admit that the engi still may be the most used class, but not by a huge percentage and there are worse classes that could be overused.

Giving HA an ammo pack just to artificially boost HA's usage is absurd. I'm betting HA will already get quite a bit of use, and I don't think it would be a good idea to let them resupply themselves with ammo. With their heavy firepower, I think that would make them just as lonewolfy as it would make LA, where as engi's with ammo resupplying will be no more or less lone wolf capable than engi's without it.

[Nemeses]

Everyone should be what they want, you force people to play roles they don't want, they tend not to stay idiotic thing to even try do.

[Canaris]

Giving HA an ammo pack just to artificially boost HA's usage is absurd. I'm betting HA will already get quite a bit of use, and I don't think it would be a good idea to let them resupply themselves with ammo. With their heavy firepower, I think that would make them just as lonewolfy as it would make LA, where as engi's with ammo resupplying will be no more or less lone wolf capable than engi's without it.

Giving the HA the ammo pack isn't to artificially boost there usage, I reckon they'll been used in abundance no matter what, the real reason why they should get it is becuase the engineer already has a multiply roles assigned to him, saddling him with yet another like ammo pack is overkill which infected pointed out. I also don't think HA will be a lonewolf style, with there slower movement speed they'll be relying on their squad mates to be moved around the battle field. HA will be at the core of squad combat.

[infected]

I don't think you can really count the classes that are used a lot in vehicles as being overused just because of that. Engineers may get used more often in infantry combat due to the ammo resupply ability, but I still don't think that will make them be used that much more than some of the other classes.


problem is people will not change class when asked. if you start out as engy in tank and make way to base, then hop out and start supplying ammo... and everyone else does the same thing.. the trend will lead to people not switching kits for what is needed, out of basic laziness, thinking they have a class that is good for every situation. for example: "we don't need more engineers right now, we need medics. please get some medics over here."

"sorry bro, i'm fully certed out into engy because it has so many roles i'd be a fool to not focus on it. i don't really play a medic." (not really a team player mentality right there but who's fault is that?)

sure you can eventually cert into everything, but most casual players will settle in and stick with a certain class they feel they like. and if that class offers more versatility than others then it will be more popular, which leads to other classes being too unpopular.

spread out the support. engy has too much going on, and in the future the engy will likely only get more stuff added to it. spread out the stuff so people will want to switch classes when needed, rather than sticking to one class and never lending a hand when situation calls for it. see bf3 for an example of engineers being dominant because they bring so much to the battle that you were a fool to play anything else (at least on launch) (in conquest).

[Sulaco]

Still seems kind of a shame to me that you don't just pick your certs and become exactly what you want to be, rather than having to pick from a set of specific classes, though I also don't actually know how deep the customization is in PS2. Do we know if you still need certs for Galaxy piloting or Command ranks? Forgive me if the information is already out there - I haven't seen it.

[Xyntech]

Giving the HA the ammo pack isn't to artificially boost there usage, I reckon they'll been used in abundance no matter what, the real reason why they should get it is becuase the engineer already has a multiply roles assigned to him, saddling him with yet another like ammo pack is overkill which infected pointed out. I also don't think HA will be a lonewolf style, with there slower movement speed they'll be relying on their squad mates to be moved around the battle field. HA will be at the core of squad combat.

I'd rather see appropriate new roles given to HA, LA, and other classes than see engi's not be given something that makes perfect sense for them just because they can already do quite a lot.

Personally, I don't think LA would have been too bad with being able to resupply ammo. I think they would actually have been better than HA in some ways, like being able to quickly run back and forth between a spawn vehicle to pick up more ammo packs. But in the end, I think it's better off that neither of them have it.

Engi seems perfect to me. The real issue now is how many of these roles will the engi be able to fill at once, and what are some more appropriate roles that can be given to LA and HA.

problem is people will not change class when asked. if you start out as engy in tank and make way to base, then hop out and start supplying ammo... and everyone else does the same thing.. the trend will lead to people not switching kits for what is needed, out of basic laziness, thinking they have a class that is good for every situation. for example: "we don't need more engineers right now, we need medics. please get some medics over here."

"sorry bro, i'm fully certed out into engy because it has so many roles i'd be a fool to not focus on it. i don't really play a medic." (not really a team player mentality right there but who's fault is that?)

sure you can eventually cert into everything, but most casual players will settle in and stick with a certain class they feel they like. and if that class offers more versatility than others then it will be more popular, which leads to other classes being too unpopular.

spread out the support. engy has too much going on, and in the future the engy will likely only get more stuff added to it. spread out the stuff so people will want to switch classes when needed, rather than sticking to one class and never lending a hand when situation calls for it. see bf3 for an example of engineers being dominant because they bring so much to the battle that you were a fool to play anything else (at least on launch) (in conquest).

You talk as if "certing in engi" somehow means that you will upgrade every aspect of an engi at once. Just because you have certed to upgrade your repair function doesn't mean you've put anything into ammo resupply. Maybe you'll put those points into a medic skill or HA skill instead. Besides, a completely uncerted class will still have all of it's most important core features, so there is still no excuse not to go medic if your team really needs it. Everyone will always be able to switch to a decently equipped medic all of the time, from day one.

(I don't intend to put words in your mouth btw, just telling you how your post came off to me).

If your team has nothing but engi's, and the enemy team has a better selection of classes, they will probably win. Lose enough battles as an engineer, and I think you'll see people start finding ways and reasons to switch classes. From what we've seen, it really isn't an ideal combat class. Players getting out of their vehicles will understand this, and either make due with what they have or find a place to change what they have.

Besides, HA will already be a pretty good driver/gunner class on it's own. Having an AV gun is an option that engi's will not have. Add in the fact that HA will be a better infantry combat class, and any driver who knows they'll be getting out to fight on foot will think hard about driving/gunning as HA.

It's not like a team of all engineers will be a super effective fighting force, otherwise I'd have a problem with it. That's why I don't want medics to have the ammo resupplying ability. Having a lot of potential job duties isn't inherently a bad thing for a class, so long as it can't do too many of the most important ones at once.

Again, I don't give a shit if the engi has a lot of stuff it can do. I just want to see more stuff that other classes can do. Class appropriate stuff, more importantly.

[infected]

I'd rather see appropriate new roles given to HA, LA, and other classes than see engi's not be given something that makes perfect sense for them just because they can already do quite a lot.

Personally, I don't think LA would have been too bad with being able to resupply ammo. I think they would actually have been better than HA in some ways, like being able to quickly run back and forth between a spawn vehicle to pick up more ammo packs. But in the end, I think it's better off that neither of them have it.

Engi seems perfect to me. The real issue now is how many of these roles will the engi be able to fill at once, and what are some more appropriate roles that can be given to LA and HA.

i think you're not being honest with yourself. you agree LA and HA should get more support roles, but you can't think of anything they can be given.

and an engineer does NOT make perfect sense to be an ammo supply guy. where IRL would you see an engineer tasked to be a supply specialist? those are 2 completely separate occupations.

one the other hand, you know the "every soldier is a riflemen first" motto? go one step further and know that every infantry squad needs an ammo guy, (and a medic and a comms guy and a marksmen, etc but not get off point) that means HA (or LA) would make fine sense to fill the ammo supply role.

you never hear "every infantry squad needs an engineer". you would agree that every soldier needs some boyscout skills, but not a full on engineer toolkit. and surely the guy with the engineer tools shouldn't also be tagged with the task of also lugging around ammo for every type of small arms.

[Xyntech]

i think you're not being honest with yourself. you agree LA and HA should get more support roles, but you can't think of anything they can be given.

and an engineer does NOT make perfect sense to be an ammo supply guy. where IRL would you see an engineer tasked to be a supply specialist? those are 2 completely separate occupations.

one the other hand, you know the "every soldier is a riflemen first" motto? go one step further and know that every infantry squad needs an ammo guy, (and a medic and a comms guy and a marksmen, etc but not get off point) that means HA (or LA) would make fine sense to fill the ammo supply role.

you never hear "every infantry squad needs an engineer". you would agree that every soldier needs some boyscout skills, but not a full on engineer toolkit. and surely the guy with the engineer tools shouldn't also be tagged with the task of also lugging around ammo for every type of small arms.

Maybe an engineer carrying an ammo resupply pack won't be able to build any turrets or other deployables. Engineers are already riflemen, so why not give them an infantry role that actually is useful on the attack?

It makes perfect sense for an engineer because they are already a more supportive class. A Light Assault can have supportive roles, but it should be more related to their skill set. Flash bangs and smoke grenades would be more up Light Assaults alley than ammo packs. Hell, I'd rather give ammo packs to medics, except that it would horribly overpower them beyond the likes of it overpowering any other class. Ammo resupply just plays more to the support class styles, and that's engineers and medics.

I'd like to ask, were you against LA being able to deploy ammo? Because if so, then I'd like to hear your reasoning of why it would be more balanced for HA to have it than LA. IMO, both would be equally bad (but not terrible) choices. I just can't see a lone LA getting as much use out of a free personal ammo resupply as a HA would get, and I think LA would be more capable than HA of acting as an ammo supplier, running back to grab more anytime it's needed. The only reason HA is at all a better choice is because HA is inherently a slightly less lone wolf class to begin with, but it's already versatile and mobile enough that an ammo pack would push it over the edge into being a great pick for self sustenance.

I really didn't have a huge problem with LA having ammo packs, and given that LA doesn't seem to have as many roles covered as HA with it's multiple types of guns, I'd say it's in greater need of ammo packs if the only consideration is spreading the roles out evenly.

I'll admit I don't have an over abundance of ideas for some of the classes abilities, but I'm confident that some good ideas will surface. Besides, I'd rather have some classes have fewer roles as long as what roles they did have were useful and interesting. Personally, I think LA is currently the least diverse class, but it's still going to be my class of choice. Jumping around in the middle of a chaotic battle is just going to be too much fun to pass up.

[infected]

my view on LA with ammo was posted in the other thread. (not sure its a big problem, will have more opinion on this stuff after i play beta).

as for your thought process of engineer being a good fit because its "already a support class"... we do not want every type of support role to be filled by a single class, and then try to make it seem cool that one support class can then decide "which" support role it wants to fill. they all need to be filled! these should be spread out among the other classes. that is the whole point. otherwise you will need 50%+ engineers because some are this and some are that...

and as i wrote in the other thread, the infantry squads (HA and LA here) make perfect sense that one of them would bring (a reasonable extra amount of) ammo for the rest of the squad.

and yes, medics with ammo would be ridiculous because that is a one man army right there :p personally i do want medics to be powerful enough to match up in infantry as a full combat soldier, but self-healing and self-resupply is just recipe for lone-wolf. i'm quite the lone wolf sometimes. like in bf3, 2 medics are pretty OP as a group, and they get ammo from dead bodies. that is OP. :)

[Xyntech]

I just think that the supportive roles of HA and LA need to be more directly combat oriented.

Engi's don't get AV guns or heavy assault anti infantry weapons. If an engi wants to deliver more firepower, he has to deploy a turret, which he or a team mate can use.

Medics and engis are both combat capable, but they are at their best when they are propping up the rest of their squad.

Just the same, HA and LA are able to fight by themselves, either solo or in a squad that's all the same class, but they will be much more effective if they have some supportive players propping them up, and they need to use their superior combat abilities to ensure those support players stay alive.

I will say that from a real world standpoint, engi's being ammo supply guys makes very little sense. But real world combat engineers don't generally sit around repairing vehicles in the middle of battle either. The reason I think engi's fit the bill is that ammo resupply is too much of a purely supportive role (read: not directly combat oriented like throwing a flashbang is) to make as much sense for LA or HA. So given that there are only two major supportive classes, and one would be overpowered as hell if it had ammo resupply packs, it makes perfect sense (to me) to have the non overpowered one have it.

I was fine with LA, but parts of the community were concerned about it, and obviously the devs agreed enough to move it to engi. Engi is my first choice, so I am totally okay with it, unless I see a problem with it in beta. I'm mostly just deferring to the wisdom of the devs on this one for now.

[infected]

we'll see.

i disagree with your reasoning for engy taking the ammo role over assault, but that's just because i have different first-hand experience. and i know i'm not going to change you mind so i won't continue to try...

as for flashbangs, and say smoke grenades or whatever, i'd expect that to be something worth looking into if they aren't in the game already.

hey, i have an idea. let's give the recon kit the ammo job. maybe that would get rid of a lot of noob snipers! not likely. they'd just ignore your request for ammo and sit back on that hill and continue sucking at life :p

[Xyntech]

Millions of ammo packs deployed hundred of meters away from the action would be a sad and hilarious site indeed.

[kaffis]

I was fine with LA, but parts of the community were concerned about it
Parts of the community were wrong. ;)

LA's still the best spot for ammo resupply. I hope in mid-to-late beta, the devs give this another shot, after people have more than 15 minutes playing to realize how inefficient lone-wolfing with LA really is.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Millions of ammo packs deployed hundred of meters away from the action would be a sad and hilarious site indeed.

I'm really hoping that the packs don't remain in game and they get replaced with an actual terminal. That little ammo icon just makes me sad.

[Lonehunter]

This is a War Game, not just an FPS. In PS1 there was the Max Crash, everyone massed up in MAXs, and charged. It's a good blitzkrieg but eventually everyone just pulls out AV weaponry.

Putting a cap on classes or restricting the number in anyway would be detrimental.

[infected]

what i need more info on is how (any/all forms of) healing is going to work in this game (either solely through medics interaction, or medic bags deployed like bf style, or stationary med stations, or through some form of 5 second out of combat automatic regen process like modern arcade shooters), as that all will play a huge part in all of these opinions.

[Rago]

I dislike Class Limitation, in any newer Game,
Todays games are made for Crybabys i think.
Mimimi a Sniper, mimimi a Gal Drop mimi this mimimi that MIMIMI my Ass...

Lets Play it first and see how it is.
Live and let live it should be,

Its better to go Backdoor with 10 Max Únits than, being shot from the Front Tanks ^^

[Ratstomper]

The PS1 community will undoubtedly be less than 5% of the PS2 playerbase, and that is being generous. If I had to put money on it I would lean closer to 1%.

Maybe on certain servers. Overall, there are going to be ALOT more PS1 vets than you think there will. That may change down the road as the game gets more and more players, but at start, and especially in beta, PS1 vet populations will be comparable to newbies.

what i need more info on is how (any/all forms of) healing is going to work in this game (either solely through medics interaction, or medic bags deployed like bf style, or stationary med stations, or through some form of 5 second out of combat automatic regen process like modern arcade shooters), as that all will play a huge part in all of these opinions.

I think armor regens slowly. I've heard health does as well, but even slower (don't quote me on that, though). I know medics can deploy very quick single target heals as well as slower AoE heals (god, I feel like I'm back in my WoW days...). I've heard talk of "heal" grenades too.

Don't know about med terminals (ala PS1) yet.

I'll admit I don't have an over abundance of ideas for some of the classes abilities, but I'm confident that some good ideas will surface. Besides, I'd rather have some classes have fewer roles as long as what roles they did have were useful and interesting.

This is how I feel. My hope is that once we get to play, we'll see some role gaps that could be filled nicely with some innovative thinking. Until then, It's difficult to come up with hard systems based on here-say and theory. :p

[Karrade]

I fully agree engineers may appeal to a lot of people, due to their bonuses to vehicles. If they get a revive as well, as was suggested somewhere, you could have even more of them, as they'll be part medic too.

I disagree that maxes won't be used much. After watching how effective they were in action, I think they will be everywhere on defense, and quite common on attack depending on how many you can transport at once, even more common due to the point on many engineers being present.

If medics get a nice buffed up heal, it may be a different story, I hope so :).