Accomodation for Colorblind Players?

[Aerothorn]

I think Planetside had, on the whole, a brilliant design. But one thing that always bugged me was the color scheme. I'm colorblind; not in the monochromatic sense, but in the sense that similar colors are difficult to tell apart. On the map, it's impossible for me to tell the difference between NC and VS (which forced me into playing TR during my planetside days).

At the very least you could zoom in on the bases and see the faction icon, but with towers I was plum out of luck.

Given the screenshots I've seen of the PS2 map, this doesn't seem to be changing, and there aren't even any icons on the hexes! How will colorblind players be able to tell the difference between Vanu and NC controlled areas?

[super pretendo]

Yeah, I too am colorblind-american. the discrimination in the video game industry is pretty bad. BC2 always messed with me with the minimap

LoL has a colorblind mode and it helps

[Ratstomper]

Hmmm. That's actually a very good point. Maybe adding a faction symbol to hexes?

[PhoenixDog]

Honestly...In this day in age of gaming...Almost every game that relies on colour to separate players should have a colourblind mode.

[zomg]

I'm slightly colorblind with shades of green and brown as well. Would be nice to have something.

The easiest way to get around this would be to let you just choose the colors yourself. Not a big deal to let players mod the UI colors to suit their tastes I think.

[MyMeatStick]

Yeah, I too am colorblind-american. the discrimination in the video game industry is pretty bad. BC2 always messed with me with the minimap

LoL has a colorblind mode and it helps

They have colorblind mode on BC2, unless you were saying it's useless?

[CrystalViolet]

Some accessibility features would be nice, but I don't expect to see them right off the bat. I myself have trouble with small text and wouldn't mind seeing text to speech feature implemented. Alternatively, if the data they release includes chat streams, the chat window from the game could be fed into a TTS compatible chat client such as Trillian. Just throwing out some ideas for the devs.

[Gonefshn]

Seeing that this is a huge MMO I think they will accommodate people with these issues adequately though I'd love to hear a dev speak up about it. Doesn't seem like the type of thing they couldn't discuss or want to keep under wraps.

[super pretendo]

They have colorblind mode on BC2, unless you were saying it's useless?

Guess I should use it

[TheRagingGerbil]

I am pretty sure Higby addressed this concern early on in one of the podcast. If memory serves me, he said they were going to do some things, but it wasn't a high priority because the percentage of players (like 1/2 percent) were the only ones affected by it.

[RadarX]

We are going to do everything we can manage to ensure colorblind players are able to enjoy the game just as much.

[Russ]

Thanks RadarX. Im not colorblind, but even in games like BF3 i use the colorblind option. Colors are more dull and less bleeding (that holographic aura on panels or HUD). So i like that option to be inplace, plus it helps those who do have it. So its a win/win.

[RadarX]

Thanks RadarX. Im not colorblind, but even in games like BF3 i use the colorblind option. Colors are more dull and less bleeding (that holographic aura on panels or HUD). So i like that option to be inplace, plus it helps those who do have it. So its a win/win.

I understand and please remember feedback like this is crucial for us. I can remember a few years ago working on a strategy product and someone letting us know they weren't able to play well because they couldn't see the base of the game pieces on the map. It took a developer about a day to add an option in to change the tint and resolve the problem entirely.

[Xaine]

Its pretty standard today to have it in, i'd be surprised if it wasn't.

[Harrod]

I asked this a few weeks ago, glad there's a nice concise answer this time :)

Thx RadarX

[GuyFawkes]

I support this , I'm not colorblind but I'd hate to think how confusing it would be for someone who is. Just think of all the customisations :zebra/camo etc and it must be a nightmare.

[Angry Beaver]

As a developer (for other stuff) myself can I ask the colour-blinds a question or two.

Colours are intrinsically linked to emotion and when thinking about Art Direction the palette involved means a lot. Red is used for things like passion and rage, green fo sickly or fresh depending upon the tint. So my question is do you have different colours that inspire different emotions when compared to the rest of the population? Would you consider what most people call 'orange' a passionate colour for example? I wouldn't consider it passionate myself but I'm basically asking "What would I need to do with my colour choices to ensure you got the same quality of emotion from my work as everyone else?"

[Neurotoxin]

Heh, I remember when this was discussed on the official PS1 forums. IIRC I made the post about the alternate UI colors because an outfit mate couldn't tell one nametag color from another, but I was yelled at for saying "colorblind" and was told to use "color deficient" instead.

I'm glad that it will be a focus in PS2. I'm sure there are ways to modify palettes in realtime to adjust what the player actually sees. I'm not color deficient myself, but I always changed enemy nametags to pink for hilarious results. ;)

[Aerothorn]

Thanks for the response, RaderX! I figured this issue on your radar (no pun intended) but wanted to make sure. I'm sure I'll have feedback during the beta on whatever solutions you have implemented and will do my best to come up with some improvements.

As a developer (for other stuff) myself can I ask the colour-blinds a question or two.

Colours are intrinsically linked to emotion and when thinking about Art Direction the palette involved means a lot. Red is used for things like passion and rage, green fo sickly or fresh depending upon the tint. So my question is do you have different colours that inspire different emotions when compared to the rest of the population? Would you consider what most people call 'orange' a passionate colour for example? I wouldn't consider it passionate myself but I'm basically asking "What would I need to do with my colour choices to ensure you got the same quality of emotion from my work as everyone else?"

This is a great question, Beaver! The short answer is that there is a range of colorblindness that manifest in different ways, but for most colorblind people we actually can see colors with the same intensity, just less distinct. The typical human is capable of discerning a HUGE amount of different colors (I can't remember the exact number) and we just don't see the distinctions, or almost not distinction, between very similar colors (yellow and bright green, purple and dark blue, etc.)

So I guess it depends on the subtlely of what your color scheme. There are definitely subtle differences that colorblind people are just going to miss; but I think the basics of human psychology still apply (red is danger, blue is calming, yellow is alarming, etc).

I will say, orange is my favorite color partially because it is the most distinct for my color range; I can always tell bright orange apart from everything.

[morf]

As a developer (for other stuff) myself can I ask the colour-blinds a question or two.

Colours are intrinsically linked to emotion and when thinking about Art Direction the palette involved means a lot. Red is used for things like passion and rage, green fo sickly or fresh depending upon the tint. So my question is do you have different colours that inspire different emotions when compared to the rest of the population? Would you consider what most people call 'orange' a passionate colour for example? I wouldn't consider it passionate myself but I'm basically asking "What would I need to do with my colour choices to ensure you got the same quality of emotion from my work as everyone else?"

Like about 10-12% of caucasian males, I'm red/green colorblind. I didnt even know about it until i was like 20... there's a lot of misconceptions about it. We can actually see colors, including red and green and the emotional response is the same. The problem is distinguishing among colors that have just a low saturation of either red or green. So for example, the problem with PS1 was that the VS is purple, which is a mix between red and blue. Since there is a low saturation of red, it becomes very hard to pick up the red and it starts to look just like straight blue. Even if there was a blue sitting right next to it, it would take a few seconds of staring to pick out which one is purple.

This pretty much forced me to play TR since i had trouble distinguishing between NC and VS. I can see red, I can see green, i just can't see them when they are hidden in another color. When I loaded up my NC toon to play with the phoenix, it was like i was suddenly thrust into some sadistic game show called "AURORA OR THUNDERERRRRR" - complete with flashing lights and a buzzer to let me know when i fucked up.

[kaffis]

some sadistic game show called "AURORA OR THUNDERERRRRR" - complete with flashing lights and a buzzer to let me know when i fucked up.
This made me laugh. My step-brother's in the same position, except he wanted to play with me and I was already NC... He ended up not playing for long.

[Grognard]

As a developer (for other stuff) myself can I ask the colour-blinds a question or two.

Colours are intrinsically linked to emotion and when thinking about Art Direction the palette involved means a lot. Red is used for things like passion and rage, green fo sickly or fresh depending upon the tint. So my question is do you have different colours that inspire different emotions when compared to the rest of the population? Would you consider what most people call 'orange' a passionate colour for example? I wouldn't consider it passionate myself but I'm basically asking "What would I need to do with my colour choices to ensure you got the same quality of emotion from my work as everyone else?"

Im colorblind, 47 years of it... the color"blind" is a misnomer, we are rarely so absent the color as to be "blind". We get the culturistic nuances of color, we just confuse certain colors, due to intensity of the culprit color, red/green being the most common. For instance a stop light could never fool me... rearrange them or not, I'll know when to keep going, be careful, or hit the gas as hard as possible to make it...

So, I would just say, be careful with a few shades that confuse, and use more intensity with red and green. Some colorblind folks actually think peanut butter is green, and some like myself see the old traffic lights as red, yellow, white... and the new ones as red, yellow, minty green. Just be careful when using confusing colors, like dark orange/brown, blue/purple (w/out enough red in it), light green/yellow, some blueish greens will even look industrial gray.

On another note... there exists some evolutionary arguementation that anything inherited above 5% consistently, in a population (human males, the hunters, are at 9%) is an indicator of an evolutionary advantage... For instance, colorblind folks are not fooled by camoflage as much. Or, so army research indicates, and in my experience does hold true. In the natural world its been observed to be the same. So, dont look at color blindness as a disability, it isnt, necessarily.

So, who knows... all of us colorblind folks are just... better hunters. Keep wearing your camo TR and NC, I'll be hunting... ;)

[Electrofreak]

When I loaded up my NC toon to play with the phoenix, it was like i was suddenly thrust into some sadistic game show called "AURORA OR THUNDERERRRRR" - complete with flashing lights and a buzzer to let me know when i fucked up.

:rofl:

The sad thing is, I remember getting hit a few times with AV as a driver or gunner by other NC, and I remember yelling "Dude, are you BLIND?!"

Now I feel kinda bad about that. Colorblind just never occurred to me.

[Grognard]

We are going to do everything we can manage to ensure colorblind players are able to enjoy the game just as much.

Just keep sticking all that camoflage in there... I'll put my evolutionary advantage to good use :thumbsup:

[Eyeklops]

I put colorblindness in the same handicap category as slow reflexes. People should just deal with it and adapt. What's next? Aimbots for the old and slow?

[duomaxwl]

Woot!
I'm colorblind, and combined with crappy vision sometimes I'll shoot green names instead of red if the target is off in the distance. It shouldn't be so much of an issue in PS2 since most vehicles seem to be empire specific now (mostly air stuff,) but it's still a nice feature to have.

[NMnine]

Like about 10-12% of caucasian males, I'm red/green colorblind. I didnt even know about it until i was like 20... there's a lot of misconceptions about it. We can actually see colors, including red and green and the emotional response is the same. The problem is distinguishing among colors that have just a low saturation of either red or green. So for example, the problem with PS1 was that the VS is purple, which is a mix between red and blue. Since there is a low saturation of red, it becomes very hard to pick up the red and it starts to look just like straight blue. Even if there was a blue sitting right next to it, it would take a few seconds of staring to pick out which one is purple.

This pretty much forced me to play TR since i had trouble distinguishing between NC and VS. I can see red, I can see green, i just can't see them when they are hidden in another color. When I loaded up my NC toon to play with the phoenix, it was like i was suddenly thrust into some sadistic game show called "AURORA OR THUNDERERRRRR" - complete with flashing lights and a buzzer to let me know when i fucked up.

Yeah same here, even though I will always be playing NC. The problem would easily be solved if we had the ability to change either the NC primary colour from Blue to Yellow or the VS colour from Purple to Teal.

I don't think it will be as hard as in PS1 though since the silhouettes of the different factions troops and vehicles seem to be more distinct this time around. It was nice that you could change nameplate colours to whatever you wanted in PS1.

The only two games that gave me serious trouble in this department were Bad Company 2 (before colourblind mode was added) and League of Legends (also before its was added).

[none]

I put colorblindness in the same handicap category as slow reflexes. People should just deal with it and adapt. What's next? Aimbots for the old and slow?

wat...

[Electrofreak]

I put colorblindness in the same handicap category as slow reflexes. People should just deal with it and adapt. What's next? Aimbots for the old and slow?

You're trolling right?

Adapt? How do you adapt to something when you cannot see it? I suppose they're supposed to just guess what faction common pool vehicles are, or whether dots on the minimap are friend or foe?

I notice you seem to be handicapped with stupidity. I'm curious, are posts like yours an indication of how you've learned to adapt?

[SKYeXile]

I put colorblindness in the same handicap category as slow reflexes. People should just deal with it and adapt. What's next? Aimbots for the old and slow?

WOW...

anyway...i thought they were allowing custom mods...thats may help...otherwise you maybe stuck playing a particular faction depending on what part of the spectrum you can/cant see.

[Eyeklops]

I suppose they're supposed to just guess what faction common pool vehicles are, or whether dots on the minimap are friend or foe? I think that would up the level of excitement, make the game more hardcore. People want a harder-core game right, not so "dumbed down"? You see that dot on the map...friendly..or foe?, let's go around the corner and see if it shoots at us!

I notice you seem to be handicapped with stupidity. I'm curious, are posts like yours an indication of how you've learned to adapt?
Wow, that's an awful personal attack that I really don't think was needed. No need to take things so personally bro.

[Baneblade]

I have been asked several times if I'm colorblind... or just blind in general. Guess friendlies didn't like being run over.

Anyway, colorblind friendly options are a good thing.

[Rago]

In the Times I played in clans, i also had a friend who was colorblind he was one of the Best Players, because it was possible for Colorblind modes, as i remember he got red, brown
or stuff like that.

I like this idea

[Electrofreak]

I think that would up the level of excitement, make the game more hardcore. People want a harder-core game right, not so "dumbed down"? You see that dot on the map...friendly..or foe?, let's go around the corner and see if it shoots at us!


Wow, that's an awful personal attack that I really don't think was needed. No need to take things so personally bro.

You're awfully sensitive for someone who made a very insensitive remark.

I put colorblindness in the same handicap category as slow reflexes. People should just deal with it and adapt. What's next? Aimbots for the old and slow?

[Ghoest9]

Im color blind and I considered PS 1 to be one of the most colorblind friendly games of its era.

You could change the color of the targeting reticules and thats all that mattered to me. I made enemys blue and friendlys yellow.


And probably close to 5% of PS customers are color blind. It is disproportionately present relative to the population as a whole in while males. They are the largest group of PS2 players. prevalent in white males. the larges




EDIT:
I was "personally" attacking an individual, just stating how I feel about the topic.

Besides pointing out that I kind of wish ill will on you IRL(in a karmic metaphysical sense).

I should explain that the main effect of not having a color blind mode is that we accidentally kill friendlies.
And we dont stop playing because of it - we just accept it people will be unhappy and will get grief points more than other people.
And we keep on playing and accidentally killing friendlies.

[Eyeklops]

You're awfully sensitive for someone who made a very insensitive remark.
I wasn't "personally" attacking an individual, just stating how I feel about the topic.

[Ghoest9]

A special note if any devs happen to be reading this.

The best 2 contrasting colors for colorblind people are blue/yellow.

Ill explain why.
Humans have 3 different basiccolor receptors - blue, green and red.

Essentially no one is lacking the blue receptor(<.1%).
Essentially all colorblind people either have faulty green or red receptors(~3%-5% of American males).

Blue/yellow is the one color pair that both types of common color blindness see easily as a high contrast.

[Kezz]

I too have a red/green colour vision deficiency, and it did cause me problems with IFF in PS1. As I recall it, it was particularly acute when folks started getting organised and we had squad colours added into the mix.

For me, the best overall solution, which would help all players recognise sides faster would be a small, simple symbol next to/as part of the nameplate: circle/triangle/triflash would be entirely adequate.

[Vanu Techpriest]

So wait, if you guys are red/green colorblind does that mean the Terran are invisible?!

[Kezz]

So wait, if you guys are red/green colorblind does that mean the Terran are invisible?!

No, they just don't stand out like I assume they do to you guys with a "normal" quotient of long wavelength receptors.

[Ghoest9]

It means if you dont have red receptors the red on them looks like a sort of indistinct color .

If you dont have green receptors you see the red but it doesnt stand out well from most back grounds.



Im the type that doesnt see green. The biggest problem for me in games when they use green and red to show friend from enemy. Its as hard to see as it would be for most people if they used shades of grey to tell friend from enemy.

[Baneblade]

The TR don't really stand out that much, for me at least... mostly what I see is the black. VS tend to be dark as well. Maybe its my machine, dunno. But I know I'm not colorblind, despite being genetically predisposed for it. I rely on the minimap for IFF far too much.

So it may not be entirely the colorblind thing, PS colors tend to go dark in general.

[Huntsab]

Here we are colored blind people accusing game devs of discrimination. This is the youth of the 21st century. I never even considered people with color blindness. True a symbol wouldn't be too much to implement, but please leave out the discrimination crap, the devs probably didn't/haven't even realized. Pains me to see the political correctness brigade spouting accusations as if deeply wounded by something others don't even realize. Don't take not realizing as ignorance. Knowing about it and ignoring it then you may have a case.

[Kezz]

Don't take not realizing as ignorance.
It's ignorance. No doubt about that. It might not be malicious but the education and experience of game designers obviously omits, in most cases, to impart the facts about the prevalence (ca. 10%) and effects (sometimes quite significant) of the condition. This is the fault of the education system, largely. Colour blind people tend not to go into graphic design (it took me three times as long as the rest of my class in Art at school to paint a 'colour wheel' - a career in the graphic arts was contra-indicated), so when graphic designers make cool interfaces, they don't think about this. And graphic design teachers don't think about it when they're putting syllabus together.

[Ghoest9]

Here we are colored blind people accusing game devs of discrimination. This is the youth of the 21st century. I never even considered people with color blindness. True a symbol wouldn't be too much to implement, but please leave out the discrimination crap, the devs probably didn't/haven't even realized. Pains me to see the political correctness brigade spouting accusations as if deeply wounded by something others don't even realize. Don't take not realizing as ignorance. Knowing about it and ignoring it then you may have a case.


"we"?

I see most everyone here making a rational case for colorblind friendly options.

Go be a drama queen somewhere else.

[musefrog]

Don't take not realizing as ignorance. Knowing about it and ignoring it then you may have a case.

"Ignorance" doesn't mean ignoring something - it means not knowing about something. I think you have your word definitions in a muddle.

[sikboy1029]

Any update on this?

[Ghoest9]

I have been bitching about this on the official forum since beta.

In this weeks thread someone responded that during the Friday Night Op this week they said something is coming.

[psychobilly]

I have been bitching about this on the official forum since beta.

In this weeks thread someone responded that during the Friday Night Op this week they said something is coming.

That's weird because before Higby was quoted as saying 'not enough people who play MMOs are colorblind to worry about it'.

For now: use nightvision scope -> no color means you focus on the shape of the enemy and the dorito.

[duomaxwl]

An update would be great. I keep either shooting friendly spawn beacons or ignoring them completely because of the blue/purple stuff. Reading the map is a pain as well.