Jumping and Advanced movement

[ThermalReaper]

Note: I'm not entirely sure about the jumping section of this thread. Feel free to prove me wrong. Also due to a wound in my arm my replies may be slightly delayed and it may take a while to make the poll, please be patient.
EDIT: Also, I know I shouldn't be asking this because we have no idea what jumping or the map layout would be like, but that doesn't mean we can discuss it.

Jumping:

As said in the note, I'm not really sure about this, but I didn't see anyone jump at all(Jump jets don't count) in Day 1 and Day 3 of the stream( I missed day 2). So, as someone who hates the obnoxious "I can't climb over this small fence" jump height(The reason I threw "Black" out of my window) I thought I'd be concerned. I hate the really low jump height, and I doubt even with all the weight, soldiers are able to jump over small fences and climb rocks.(More to this on the advanced movement section)
So here's my question, How would you like your normal jumping height(I), what penalties should you get if you are fighting someone(II) And should there be different jumping heights depending of Class/Speed you are running at? (III)
Would you like :
(I)
A) CoD very short jumps
B) Crysis "I've mastered the art of high jumps by farting" jumps
C) Your own opinion that I'm sure would be 100% better than A and B.
{II}
A) No iron sights and inaccuracy
B) Unable to fire
C) Decreased damage output
D) Decreased speed after landing on the ground for a small period of time
E) Refer to C at question (I)
[III]
A) Yes, I want to jump higher than a medic
B) Yes, I want to jump higher when I'm sprinting
C) Yes, both!
D) No.
E) Refer to C at question (I)

Advanced Movement:

So what comes in mind when the word advanced movement is said?
Parkour. No, I'm not suggesting we should have a Parkour FPS in planetside( But you should do so in Bullet run that I doubt anyone even noticed). However, By advanced movement I mean things such as the Automatic Vault in Battlefield 3. You can vault by just moving in front of an object and pressing your jump button.
"Well okay, Vaulting. What else?"

Here's another mechanic that may be helpful. (Apologies if your eyes are blessed by the gaming gods to the point that you are prohibited to see anything with the smallest mention of Call of Duty.)
Boosting(Skip to 2:36, youtube is fighting me.)


Well, that's it. Submit your ideas and thoughts, thanks for reading.

[Stardouser]

If there's going to be vaulting, it better not fail as much as BF3 vaulting does. When something like that isn't done right it harms more than it adds in immersion.

Also, you either shouldn't be able to fire while jumping or it should double your cone of fire or something.

[ThermalReaper]

If there's going to be vaulting, it better not fail as much as BF3 vaulting does.

I've played about 5 minutes of battlefield 3 but I didn't get to vault, can you explain how failed it is?

[Stardouser]

I've played about 5 minutes of battlefield 3 but I didn't get to vault, can you explain how failed it is?

I didn't mean that vaulting is failed, I mean, vaulting literally fails. This means if you walk up to an 18 inch obstacle that you should be able to easily vault, and you don't face exactly perpendicular to it(ie, 90 degree angle exactly face-on), you will go through the vaulting animation yet not move because it fails and you stay on the side you are on. If you're moving away from enemies it gets you killed. I mean, it seems like if you are facing 1 degree off perpendicular to what you want to vault, it can fail.

Other than that the animation is well done and everything.

[zomg]

I think vaulting or climbing over small obstacles could be nice, however if the game has decent jumping, why can't you just use that to go over it?

One thing in particular which was a bit stupid in my opinion was in one of the E3 vids a MAX fell from a Gal drop next to some tower thingy, and there was this small wall surrounding it, essentially making it impossible for the MAX to get anywhere.

So I think a small vault thing for a MAX might be nice, because it feels a bit ridiculous that it can't go over even a small wall less than half its own height.


Boosting... I think that would involve having to design almost everything so it takes the option of doing that into account, or it would become a useless thing to have, so I'd say no - although it does seem like a neat gimmick, but I don't really see it doing anything other than reducing the role of Light Assault as a class which can get to places others cannot.

By the way, do check out Brink if you get the chance. It has very, very nice vaulting/jumping/climbing stuff. Besides that, it was a bit rubbish though, but the movement in it was excellent.

[Vreki]

Small jumps to avoid getting stuck on map oddities, vaulting to get over real obstacles.
Add a stamina penalty and the inability to hit anything while jumping.

Basically I want jumping to be something you use while travelling, but not in a firefight.

[fod]

no
vaulting is horrible in bf3 - 1/2 the time it doesnt work correctly
i see no actual positives in having it except "it looks cool" which i just dont care about

so no

[Canaris]

I'm not adverse to vaulting, I mean who hasn't played an FPS where you've had all your forward progression stopped by the worlds/universes smallest wall or obstacle that even a tiny child in real life wouldn't have trouble with. Seems programmers get some secret delight at having them in games.
"The entire zerg has been defeated by a 1 inch barrier, everyone fall back!"
I know I've yelled in frustration at them :)

Don't think the game needs boosting, we have LA's for that kind of sneaky work.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Standard FPS "higher than would really be realistic while dripping with kit" jumping please. None of that fancy stuff.

[JxP]

Being able to jump over small obstacles is fine, but make it so you can't use sights while in mid air. I hate bunny hopping soldiers in most every FPS.

[Landtank]

Bunny hopping is the bane of all fun in an FPS game, its just a terrible mechanic. Definitely no boosting, and maybe to vaulting, not really sure.

Your a soldier wearing armor and carrying around 50+ pounds, I don't care if you have implants or anything, you shouldn't be able to jump even 5 feet vertical.

[Xyntech]

Vaulting is a nice way to be able to get over obstacles that you should reasonably be able to get over, without being able to jump clear over someones head.

I want MAXes to be unable to jump (like they currently are), but instead of vaulting, they can sort of fall forwards and tumble over a waste high wall. Nothing says "Intimidating Suit of Death" like flailing around on the ground like a beached whale.

[Rago]

I would like to See stuff like the "UT-Style-Dodging" maybe only for the Light Assault Class ;)

[GreatMazinkaise]

Bunny hopping is the bane of all fun in an FPS game, its just a terrible mechanic. Definitely no boosting, and maybe to vaulting, not really sure.

Your a soldier wearing armor and carrying around 50+ pounds, I don't care if you have implants or anything, you shouldn't be able to jump even 5 feet vertical.

It's not a problem if it's tied to stamina (like sprinting should be). Bring back the mighty blue-green Stamina bar!

[Landtank]

It's not a problem if it's tied to stamina (like sprinting should be). Bring back the mighty blue-green Stamina bar!

Indeed very true, Planetside 1's system was perfect imo.

[Kalbuth]

"ramp-like" jump when against an obstacle giving you a slight boost in jump height to be able to get over said obstacle (ofc, not a 3m tall wall ....)
jump animation rather slow
can't shoot while jumping
drains stamina

Ie : vaulting, without the vaulting mecanisms and animation, just something functionnal

[Kalbuth]

Of course it will never happen because this community isn't ready for it.
"Noess, a soldier can't do this irl you nub!!!"

[Xyntech]

Would be cool if LA had a bunch of class specific movement abilities, like being able to do a couple of strafe jumps (like 3, nothing ridiculous), a sliding kick (as in FEAR), maybe a rolling dodge, a forward dash, etc.

Of course it will never happen because this community isn't ready for it.

I'd love to see LA get some really extensive movement options.

I wouldn't mind if Infiltrators had some more minor parkour abilities as well. Beyond that, I think I'd probably leave it at low jumping and vaulting for every other class.

[Alanim]

I'm going to say no to vaulting, because just like a cover system it can be horribly frustrating more then it is helpful.

BTW, I did see someone jumping but it wasn't very high and you apparently go higher when you build up momentum aka sprinting.

Jumping+Iron sights should be allowed but man, when that person lands I want his sights+gun to shake ALL TO HELL, even if you're aimed down sights your jump is halved.

The one game that I consider did jumping just right is halo: combat evolved.

[Kran De Loy]

'Normal' jumping height for all classes except the MAX. No jumping for the MAX, but it should get limited vaulting. Also jumping penalty should be Stamina related as well as absolutely ridiculous bloom on the Cone of Fire that very quickly reduces back to maximum sprint width after the jump is done.

Reasoning below.

I always hated getting my weapon locked while jumping. I do not mean to say that I hated not being able fire and hit anything. That arbitrary time a weapon is locked between when I could fire, could not, then could fire again has always aggravated the crap out of me.

Since HA are just Rexos then I do not see why their jump height would be different than the other classes. LA get their pack so that's how they get their advanced movement. Medics's equipment could be supposedly super light (it being a sci-fy game and all). Infiltrators being the lightest class in all shouldn't be hindered by anything when it comes to movement.

The Engineer and the MAX would be the only classes I could see where jumping could, lore wise, be a problem. Since the Engineer is just another class to play and not something drastically different than everything else like the MAX is then leaving him as the odd man out is just bad game play decision, so no restrictions on that front.

However that problem that zomg brought up about the MAX getting GalDropped into a place where he couldn't step over a less than 3 foot wall is pretty valid concern. A MAX should be able to get around stuff like that by just going over it if they need to, however the MAX being what it is should take a lot of effort to do it. It locks the MAX player into the animation and it takes a good 2 seconds or so to do because of just how bulky and unwieldy the huge armor suit is. Weapons should of course be locked down on it while it's doing the animation.

Otherwise no jumping for the MAX suit at all.

[fod]

Bunny hopping is the bane of all fun in an FPS game, its just a terrible mechanic. Definitely no boosting, and maybe to vaulting, not really sure.

Your a soldier wearing armor and carrying around 50+ pounds, I don't care if you have implants or anything, you shouldn't be able to jump even 5 feet vertical.

lets throw reality out of the window for a second - this isnt a simulation and we are also talking about the FUTURE

there hasnt been a problem with bunnyhopping any any game since quake/counterstrike imo because there is NO advantage to doing it

bunnyhopping is just a technique to get your character moving faster and in most recent games you actually move slower jumping around and it puts you at a disadvantage instead of any advantage

so what advantages do people that jump around get? none (except for looking stupid)

[ThermalReaper]

I think people misunderstood what I meant by adding boosting. It wouldn't be a prompt that you can do at specific points. It's just a mechanic you can do anywhere with a teammate to jump slightly higher. And think it could work the other way around. If you are somewhere high and your team mate is below you , you can pull him up as long as he isn't a max.

EDIT: Also this isn't about the soldiers we play as being JackKnife(From Mirror's edge) Clones. This is about the annoying trend of soldiers that can't climb on ledge slightly above them because the jump height doesn't allow it or can't hold onto the edge of a building if you miss a jump.

[Vreki]

so what advantages do people that jump around get? none (except for looking stupid)

That depends a lot on the state of the games hitdetection and lag-prediction.
Well not the stupid part, obviously.

[Kyros]

I approve of both vaulting and boosting though I don't think we'll actually 'need' to do either in PS2 so I'm fine with neither being implemented. Though no matter what, I don't want to see the classical jumping that encourages bunny hoppers. That would be the absolute worst.

Also to the people who say there is no advantage to bunny hopping...WRONG. There is. First of all, it makes you a pain in the ass to shoot down, it's incredibly annoying. Secondly, to those who say it's harder to shoot your enemy if you yourself are bunny hopping. Depends on the gun, things like assault rifles, sniper rifles, and pistols will be hard to hit your target with. But SMG's and Shotguns, you don't have to be pinpoint accurate with those.

[Landtank]

lets throw reality out of the window for a second - this isnt a simulation and we are also talking about the FUTURE

there hasnt been a problem with bunnyhopping any any game since quake/counterstrike imo because there is NO advantage to doing it

bunnyhopping is just a technique to get your character moving faster and in most recent games you actually move slower jumping around and it puts you at a disadvantage instead of any advantage

so what advantages do people that jump around get? none (except for looking stupid)

Hmm I was thinking more along the lines of Halo, which has some of the most frustrating bunny hopping experiences imo.

@Elfailo Not ready, or just straight up don't want?

[berzerkerking]

I'm not adverse to vaulting, I mean who hasn't played an FPS where you've had all your forward progression stopped by the worlds/universes smallest wall or obstacle that even a tiny child in real life wouldn't have trouble with. Seems programmers get some secret delight at having them in games.
"The entire zerg has been defeated by a 1 inch barrier, everyone fall back!"
I know I've yelled in frustration at them :)

Don't think the game needs boosting, we have LA's for that kind of sneaky work.
This one gets it.:cool2:

[vVRedOctoberVv]

No jumping. Any jumping at all allows for idiots hopping around the all time or using it as a "evasive" action. Vaulting or "context sensitive" jumping is the only reasonable way to handle obstacles.


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I know it won't happen due to the engine and game style... But destructible environments would be nice (even if they regen after a while). Rock in your way? Blow it up. Wall? Blow it up. Tree? Blow it up. Liberal application of explosives solves ANY in-game problem :)

[Kyros]

I know it won't happen due to the engine and game style... But destructible environments would be nice (even if they regen after a while). Rock in your way? Blow it up. Wall? Blow it up. Tree? Blow it up. Liberal application of explosives solves ANY in-game problem :)

Things like that would be awesome. We'll just have to wait for Planetside 3, when computer tech will have advanced so far it can pretty much do anything.

[RNFB]

Bunny hopping is the bane of all fun in an FPS game, its just a terrible mechanic

I take it you've never played an FPS game with ACTUAL Bunny Hopping, and not just CoD's "look at me hop around like an idiot"?

Real Bunny Hopping is used to gain incredible speed by exploiting the physics engine (Quake, TFC)

[Stardouser]

Don't think the game needs boosting, we have LA's for that kind of sneaky work.

I really don't think one player boosting another is "sneaky"...

[Zolan]

>vaulting
>boosts
>parkour
>Planetside

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m2wsm19VZN1qfvqat.gif

[RSphil]

i think the way battlefield 3 get you over fences and such is great and would to see it in planetside 2. i never had any issue with in and always worked fine for me. it also gives you that feel of immersion when your legs flip up infront of you

[OnexBigxHebrew]

i think the way battlefield 3 get you over fences and such is great and would to see it in planetside 2. i never had any issue with in and always worked fine for me. it also gives you that feel of immersion when your legs flip up infront of you

I agree, looks and feels really cool/immersive. I play at least an hour of BF3 every day, and rarely have it fail on me. Could just be how used to angles and such I've gotten, though. I like it because it gets around CoD's mini jumping and scenery wall problem, and you maintain momentum while in combination with sprinting. With PS2 already being designed with a lot of BF3 in mind, I don't think one more que would hurt :D.

Boosting looks cool, and would add a neat dynamic, but I think its too scripted for a map as gigantic as PS2's, they'd have to build the game from ground up with that idea. So no to that, imo.

[Infernalis]

I played BF3 for 200hours and yes it fails quite a lot, sometimes for jumping over something silly. I still think a decent jump like most FPS is the best.

[RSphil]

battlefield has player movement down well. you run and feel like your player has weight. if you run and go prone you will slide on the ground. ( so watch near cliffs lol ) anything from this would be a good addition to planetside 2 imo

[ThermalReaper]

I'll be honest, If planetside 2 can be modded, I'll hunt down the best FPS modders, bag them and force them to create Planetside 2: Mirror's Edge edition.
... Quick! Change bullet run into this concept instead of making another generic FPS SoE!

[vasito]

I will tell you why only jumping is retarded. Anyone played Bad Company 2? There was only jumping. PPL jumping over small rocks over bushes EVERYTHING!

It looked pretty stupid. If vaulting is well implemented Why not?
You dont have to always use it.

[GreatMazinkaise]

I will tell you why only jumping is retarded. Anyone played Bad Company 2? There was only jumping. PPL jumping over small rocks over bushes EVERYTHING!

It looked pretty stupid. If vaulting is well implemented Why not?
You dont have to always use it.

It's a staple of FPS gaming and had a very important interaction with Stamina in the original. If it ain't broke... (and it isn't)

[Rago]

Im Still going for UT Movement :P Or a Painkiller Quake Mechanic !

I like Fun more than realism !