Heavy Assault looks a bit outclassed.

[Karrade]

Hello all, I realise we've only seen snapshots, so that is all I have to go on.

At the moment I cannot see the reason for the heavy assault, as it can't do anything that something else can't do better.

Is there anything I a missing about them?

Maxes can hit harder, take more damage, (do they hold more ammo), and move not too slow compared to HA, a bit slower but not much.

2 Engineers, 6/7 Maxes, 1/2 Medics, seems the perfect squad? LA seems reasonable but i'd probably take an infil instead as you seem to be able to get about the base easy enough with the jump pads.

If you're primary going a vehicle pilot route, the engineer, infil, LA, even medic seems preferable to give you options either in or out of the vehicle. So what can the HA do better than anything else, do they hold more grenades or something? I know they get the shield but still a max seems to be able to outclass them in how much damage they can take.

Thanks for any help.

imho if this is the case, a revive shouldn't go to the engineer, it should go to the HA ;).

[Aurmanite]

Their shield and heavy weapons. We haven't seen Lashers, Mini Chainguns, or Jack Hammers yet.

[Tikuto]

We haven't seen Lashers, Mini Chainguns, or Jack Hammers yet.Instead of Lasher, Jacker and Minigunner what about having them use a single MAX weapon instead? And Hvy Ast being the only class able to scavenge enemy MAX weapons.

Sounds rather awesome idea, tbh.

[Karrade]

Their shield and heavy weapons. We haven't seen Lashers, Mini Chainguns, or Jack Hammers yet.

Does their shield allow them to take more damage than a max if used right?

Do their heavy weapons put out more damage than a max kitted for 1/2 infantry, 1/2 vehicle, if so great! :) If not, then they are outclassed, in the videos I've watched so far 1/2 maxes seem to hold their own against nearly all HA's they come across.


Instead of Lasher, Jacker and Minigunner what about having them use a single MAX weapon instead? And Hvy Ast being the only class able to scavenge enemy MAX weapons.

Sounds rather awesome idea, tbh.

That does sound cool, to scavenge max parts for weapons or a physical shield of armor perhaps :) - Think Guardians out of ME 3. A squad of HA's would get stronger the more max's they faced heh.

[Tikuto]

to scavenge max parts for weapons or a physical shield of armor perhapswas thinking of just 'pick-up enemy MAX's weapon and shoot' tbh :D

[infected]

wait and see for yourself.

edit: i can't see how you can discount all the things HA can do that MAX cannot.

can capture points
can drive vehicles
can crouch
no cooldown on respawn same kit after death
no resource cost to spawn
can get healed by medics rather than engineers
can deploy shields
you personally move faster = faster operations possible. your entire unit/squad is only as fast as its slowest unit
can rotate faster
can reload faster?
can jump better?

also, MAX's are still pretty vulnerable to headshot damage, so they aren't as buff as you may believe.

[Sabrak]

in the videos I've watched so far 1/2 maxes seem to hold their own against nearly all HA's they come across.

This might just be because you've watched videos of people who didn't actually knew how to play, and didn't have the reflex to use their missile launcher on MAXes instead of their "standard" heavy assault weapon.

[Karrade]

was thinking of just 'pick-up enemy MAX's weapon and shoot' tbh :D

Yeah which is good, but you're still only doing half what they can do. If you could scavenge them for parts, maybe strap on some of the metal, you'd be evening the odds a bit.

This might just be because you've watched videos of people who didn't actually knew how to play, and didn't have the reflex to use their missile launcher on MAXes instead of their "standard" heavy assault weapon.

This what I want to hear, does the missile launcher put out more damage on a max, than a max using an anti infantry weapon? A 1/2 Max for comparison, otherwise we are back to the same point.

[Bags]

HA can hack terminals, HA can probably use all vehicles, HA have a temp shield that lets them survive tank fire, HA won't have a timer or cost resources like a max might.

[Karrade]

wait and see for yourself.

edit: i can't see how you can discount all the things HA can do that MAX cannot.

capture points
drive vehicles
get healed by medics rather than engineers
deploy shields
move faster
rotate faster
reload faster?

Because something else does all those better.

HA can hack terminals, HA can probably use all vehicles, HA have a temp shield that lets them survive tank fire, HA won't have a timer or cost resources like a max might.

Ah so the max costs resources, this is great, thank you :)

[ReveX]

The max is suppose to take more resources in order to spawn right?

[Aurmanite]

Let's not forget the AV weaponry. Heavy assault exclusive.

During the E3 videos we didn't get to see much coordinated work. Imagine a group of HA's charging into a room, popping their shields, and just going buck wild with heavy weaponry/rocket launchers.

[Bags]

Ah so the max costs resources, this is great, thank you :)

Not as of E3, but they mentioned probably doing so. Possibly with a timer.

[Sledgecrushr]

I havent seen a max duck to get cover yet.

[Eyeklops]

Maxes do not have a shield to repair, so they MUST stay near an engineer if they want to stay alive for any long period of time during a firefight. HA has a shield that recharges, so they have the potential to take damage and fully recover on their own.

[exoteror]

HA will be faster than you expect compared to the MAX especially when you are ducking behind a wall to avoid being hit.

HA have anti vehical weponry which will be usefull when defending a base and it's too over run to pull vehicals.

Also of cource HA doesen't take resources compared to a MAX and vehicals.

[ComerEste]

Their shield and heavy weapons. We haven't seen Lashers, Mini Chainguns, or Jack Hammers yet.

This pretty much. No other class can use the empire specific heavy weapons or rocket launchers.

[willaguy]

They have heavy weapons and AV/AA weapons. MAXes cannot hack a terminal whereas a HA can.

[Karrade]

Let's not forget the AV weaponry. Heavy assault exclusive.

During the E3 videos we didn't get to see much coordinated work. Imagine a group of HA's charging into a room, popping their shields, and just going buck wild with heavy weaponry/rocket launchers.

It isn't though as the max can equip AV, as i've seen that in the vids, like you could in PS 1. Sure the shields are good but again to point one, if they don't let you absorb more damage than the max can anyway, then the max is still more useful in that role.

Do you see where I am coming from? From a regiments perspective, which I will surely be in, I was looking for why take a HA at all.

The timer is the biggest thing, so after I die in my max first attack, I'd spawn in my HA for speed. Unless resources are a real issue, which would be nice as someone mentioned. Everything else anyone has brought up, can still be done better by another role - apart from ducking in cover ;) i liked that one, but you can always -move- into cover.

Hacking I am not sure is an issue, as you'll want the HA or Max shooting at people, while the engineer,medic,LA,infil etc hacks.

[Tikuto]

That moment when:

You find cover to use it effectively but your toe or head stays out.
*BOOM*--FOCK!!!

I sense this common fail to cover youself using cover is to be expected, and the Hvy Aslt is fat for this. :/

[Baneblade]

I'm looking forward to HA.

[Karrade]

HA will be faster than you expect compared to the MAX especially when you are ducking behind a wall to avoid being hit.

HA have anti vehical weponry which will be usefull when defending a base and it's too over run to pull vehicals.

Also of cource HA doesen't take resources compared to a MAX and vehicals.

Faster is good, I've not seen that difference much yet, they seem about the same for speed. Max's look much faster in PS2 than they were in PS1.

People keep bringing up the AV, is it much better than the max's at 1/2 AV or something?

[Bags]

It isn't though as the max can equip AV, as i've seen that in the vids, like you could in PS 1. Sure the shields are good but again to point one, if they don't let you absorb more damage than the max can anyway, then the max is still more useful in that role.

Do you see where I am coming from? From a regiments perspective, which I will surely be in, I was looking for why take a HA at all.

The timer is the biggest thing, so after I die in my max first attack, I'd spawn in my HA for speed. Unless resources are a real issue, which would be nice as someone mentioned. Everything else anyone has brought up, can still be done better by another role - apart from ducking in cover ;) i liked that one, but you can always -move- into cover.

Hacking I am not sure is an issue, as you'll want the HA or Max shooting at people, while the engineer,medic,LA,infil etc hacks.

HA's AV also has lock on, making it easier to use against vehicles than the arc'd max AV.
Also, maxes cannot fire while sprinting.

[Aurmanite]

Karrade, watch the day 3 E3 videos. Several MAX's get absolutely destroyed by Light Assault and Heavy assault. Mobility and specialization are a MAX's weaknesses. Sure, a MAX can equip AV weaponry, but that will severely impede their ability to defend themselves against infantry. Likewise with the AI setup.

[infected]

Faster is good, I've not seen that difference much yet, they seem about the same for speed. Max's look much faster in PS2 than they were in PS1.

People keep bringing up the AV is it much better than the max's at 1/2 AV or something?

well a MAX gets 2 guns, if both are AV then you're a 1 trick pony. the HA will also have a sidearm along with all other mentioned differences.

[SixShooter]

Instead of Lasher, Jacker and Minigunner what about having them use a single MAX weapon instead? And Hvy Ast being the only class able to scavenge enemy MAX weapons.

Sounds rather awesome idea, tbh.

So you would rather have them do away with most iconic ES weapons in favor of using MAX weapons instead?:huh: Also the HA class is the only one that can use AV weapons. This thread really kind of suprises me.

[FuzzyandBlue]

The biggest thing about the HA is that it may not be the best at any one thing. Instead it can do everything effectively. A HA can kill infantry, land vehicles and air vehicles all in one kit. No other class has that kind of flexibility.

A MAX unit can be really good at one thing or decent at two things. Engi as far as I understand will have to choose what they want to deploy with their ace tool. Medics will be the guys right behind the HA keeping them in the fight. LA may be faster but will be easier to kill. Infil will have cloaks and better hacks but are squishy.

Short version: HA might just out class everyone else in overall combat utility. Only time will tell.

[Turdicus]

Ya I mean you have to weigh the good and the bad. MAX suits are meant to be the dominant infantry on the battlefield, in terms of sheer firepower and survivability. HA forms the back bone of an army because it is the most versatile trooper in the field. A MAX suit has the most firepower and the most armor, but like it has been said before it is severely limited in what it can do. Without the ability to go into most vehicles and without the ability to hack, the HA officially becomes the most versatile and therefore reliable class in the game (my opinion). HA is the grunt, and I think it isn't meant to be superior in every role like you suggest...it is instead meant to fulfill all of them

[Zebasiz]

While a HA cannot deal as much damage as a MAX (rightly so). The MAX costs resources, had a timer, is less maneuverable, and you cannot fit as many of them into a galaxy or sunderer as you can HA. along with the other points people suggested.

While HA isn't as strong or tanky as the MAX, they do have an impressive ammount of firepower and can be a strong force, since it is easier to assemble and transport a large group of HA for an assault then an equal ammount of MAX.

Yes, a MAX outclasses an HA in direct combat, but that is their only advantage. HA is still stronger in combat than the non-MAX classes.

[Karrade]

Karrade, watch the day 3 E3 videos. Several MAX's get absolutely destroyed by Light Assault and Heavy assault. Mobility and specialization are a MAX's weaknesses. Sure, a MAX can equip AV weaponry, but that will severely impede their ability to defend themselves against infantry. Likewise with the AI setup.

Not in question. What is in question is if a 50% anti-infantry max can beat a HA trooper most of the time, if so why take the HA trooper? (This applies to hitting vehicles and infantry). People have pointed out a few extra all rounder things HA can do, but I am not yet convinced, that it makes them better than other roles more suited for those things.

To a solo player they may be more beneficial, to an organised squad, I'll need to see them in action.

So you would rather have them do away with most iconic ES weapons in favor of using MAX weapons instead?:huh: Also the HA class is the only one that can use AV weapons. This thread really kind of suprises me.

No they are the only ones who can lock on. - That I have seen.

The only issue was, is a missile launcher more effective than a 50% AV/ 50% Anti Infantry Max. Surely it's not a surprise that I want to find the most effective class for my playtime?

well a MAX gets 2 guns, if both are AV then you're a 1 trick pony. the HA will also have a sidearm along with all other mentioned differences.

Differences not in question. I'll need to see if a 50/50 max is more effective and cost feasible to play all the time.

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas all.

While a HA cannot deal as much damage as a MAX (rightly so). The MAX costs resources, had a timer, is less maneuverable, and you cannot fit as many of them into a galaxy or sunderer as you can HA. along with the other points people suggested.

While HA isn't as strong or tanky as the MAX, they do have an impressive ammount of firepower and can be a strong force, since it is easier to assemble and transport a large group of HA for an assault then an equal ammount of MAX.

Yes, a MAX outclasses an HA in direct combat, but that is their only advantage. HA is still stronger in combat than the non-MAX classes.

Good points, this may come down to how scarce resources are for organised squads. - Which is what I am mainly looking at now.

Ya I mean you have to weigh the good and the bad. MAX suits are meant to be the dominant infantry on the battlefield, in terms of sheer firepower and survivability. HA forms the back bone of an army because it is the most versatile trooper in the field. A MAX suit has the most firepower and the most armor, but like it has been said before it is severely limited in what it can do. Without the ability to go into most vehicles and without the ability to hack, the HA officially becomes the most versatile and therefore reliable class in the game (my opinion). HA is the grunt, and I think it isn't meant to be superior in every role like you suggest...it is instead meant to fulfill all of them

For solo player I am right there with you.

For organised group play, I can't see the benefits still over taking a specialised team.

[Vreki]

How about a Galaxy drop? Or a Sunderer charge?
You need shock troopers that can fit in vehicles.

[Karrade]

How about a Galaxy drop? Or a Sunderer charge?
You need shock troopers that can fit in vehicles.

I was under the impression Max units could enter vehicles just not pilot them?

[Neurotoxin]

Personal Shield + Heavy Assault / Anti-Vehicular weapon. They are gonna be fine, trust me on this.

[Vreki]

I was under the impression Max units could enter vehicles just not pilot them?

I expect it to be like in PS1: Only a small amount of MAX-slots, and only in large transports.
I could be wrong of course, but I think it makes sense to keep it like that.

[Karrade]

I expect it to be like in PS1: Only a small amount of MAX-slots, and only in large transports.
I could be wrong of course, but I think it makes sense to keep it like that.

That'd be an excellent variable to have, limited Max space. 1 or 2 per transport.

[Dacrim]

The biggest thing about the HA is that it may not be the best at any one thing. Instead it can do everything effectively. A HA can kill infantry, land vehicles and air vehicles all in one kit. No other class has that kind of flexibility.

A MAX unit can be really good at one thing or decent at two things. Engi as far as I understand will have to choose what they want to deploy with their ace tool. Medics will be the guys right behind the HA keeping them in the fight. LA may be faster but will be easier to kill. Infil will have cloaks and better hacks but are squishy.

Short version: HA might just out class everyone else in overall combat utility. Only time will tell.

^this. Although not being the best at most things their versatility makes them effective at everything. I for one will be using an HA most of the time.

Few weaknesses + Many strengths = Versatility

[SixShooter]

The only issue was, is a missile launcher more effective than a 50% AV/ 50% Anti Infantry Max. Surely it's not a surprise that I want to find the most effective class for my playtime?

Differences not in question. I'll need to see if a 50/50 max is more effective and cost feasible to play all the time.


Ok, I can get that. It just seems that from reading your OP that you're saying that the HA class in obsolete since there are other classes that do things better.

As for finding the most effective class to play all time? There should be no "most effective" class for all situations. The classes are suited for different kind of gameplay and different situations. If you're picking a class to play 100% of the time then you're going to miss out on a lot of fun stuff. I definitly plan to specialize in a couple classes but will totally play the other classes when the situation calls for it.

[Karrade]

Ok, I can get that. It just seems that from reading your OP that you're saying that the HA class in obsolete since there are other classes that do things better.

As for finding the most effective class to play all time? There should be no "most effective" class for all situations. The classes are suited for different kind of gameplay and different situations. If you're picking a class to play 100% of the time then you're going to miss out on a lot of fun stuff. I definitly plan to specialize in a couple classes but will totally play the other classes when the situation calls for it.

For myself, I was saying that. I will specialise 100% agree ;).

On reflection it is useful to have an all rounder class for people who like that playstyle, that is not me but I can innerstand it for others.

[MrMorton]

Hello all, I realise we've only seen snapshots, so that is all I have to go on.

At the moment I cannot see the reason for the heavy assault, as it can't do anything that something else can't do better.

Is there anything I a missing about them?

Maxes can hit harder, take more damage, (do they hold more ammo), and move not too slow compared to HA, a bit slower but not much.

2 Engineers, 6/7 Maxes, 1/2 Medics, seems the perfect squad? LA seems reasonable but i'd probably take an infil instead as you seem to be able to get about the base easy enough with the jump pads.

If you're primary going a vehicle pilot route, the engineer, infil, LA, even medic seems preferable to give you options either in or out of the vehicle. So what can the HA do better than anything else, do they hold more grenades or something? I know they get the shield but still a max seems to be able to outclass them in how much damage they can take.

Thanks for any help.

imho if this is the case, a revive shouldn't go to the engineer, it should go to the HA ;).


currently the heavy assault is the anti vehicle class (that includes MAXes)

they have a shield that makes them invincible for a short amount of time, and are the standard infantry unit for soaking up and dealing out damage.


also max's cost resources, so you can't just pump them out 24/7

[Durandal]

Maxes cant hack, maxes cant jump, maxes cant use vehicles

Hell maxes cant even turn quickly

If a max is caught out in the open field they are dead pretty much instantly if an vehicle comes by, while a heavy assault co go and duck behind something and has a much smaller profile, Heavy assault also appears to have homing rockets which maxes do not

[Kayos]

What is in question is if a 50% anti-infantry max can beat a HA trooper most of the time, if so why take the HA trooper?

Who says a 50/50 Max can take out a HA? I'm willing to bet the HA can take out that 50/50 Max faster. Plus in one of the videos, I think it was Day 1 they say that Max's are too fast atm and will probably be slowed down (pretty sure I heard them say that, correct me if I'm wrong).

[OutlawDr]

You take a HA when you want some mobility and versatility with your DPS.

[Bags]

Not to mention the HAs outclass the MAXes visually. ;)

[diLLa]

Doesn't mean anything on paper, as everyone has different opinions and different preferences. The most optimal gun or class on paper may not be for everyone.

I for one will probably play Heavy Assault the most, as it suits my playstyle. MAXes for one is something I will probably never use.

[The Kush]

HA carries the heavy assault weapon, jackhammer lasher or minichaingun
This is the advantage
Plus a shield

Lol this thread fails

/closed

[Xaine]

I'm sure HA will be very good and one of the most played things for shock troops, coming down from Gals.

[Russ]

HA is mobility and firepower combined. Both LA and Maxes are the opposite spectrums. In cqc it will be very helpful to use the shield to then run to cover. Maxes arent goot at getting to cover, or even firing from cover since they have to have their whole body exposed to use both weapons.

[SKYeXile]

TBH i thought the maxes DPS was rather weak, id hope HAs would be alot higher. seems like the MAX willbe more the tank sorta class.

seems somebody gets that having the highest DPS weapon on the toughest class is broken, yay!

[maddoggg]

Nah heavy assault doesnt look useless to me.
From what i have seen HA is basicly going to be a much more mobile MAX(that doesnt get stuck behind 5cm high walls)capable of getting in any vehicle and capable of beeing healed by medics and revived(i am actually not sure if you will be able to revivie a MAX,and if yes would it be the medic or the engineer to do it?).

With the rocket launcher you are pretty good against vehicles,your may not be as good as a MAX specialized only in AA or anti ground vehicles,but you have the ability to take out both air and ground vehicles AND be effective against infantry(since you can carry both a multipurpose rocket launcher and an LMG).

Even in close quaters where MAXes shine,i am guessing you can still win with HA by just using your shield and mobility to go around the MAX.

And there is also the fact MAX actually costs resourses while HA is just another class that cost no resourse.

[Vydofnir]

From what I gathered thus far, a specialized MAX will be far superior to the HA in its given specialization, but will get crushed in any other context. A hybrid MAX setup may be better in certain contexts, but even then it will have clear weaknesses. The standard HA loadout so far includes a LMG for use against infantry and a missile launcher which is effective against both vehicles and aircraft, making the HA more versatile than any single hybrid MAX setup in terms of the number of roles it can fill. The ability to lock onto a target, fire off a shot, bring up a reinforced shield, and duck behind cover long enough for the personal shield to recharge gives the HA a good deal of survivability when facing vehicles or aircraft, and unlike a hybrid AV/AA MAX, the HA will be able to give a good account of themselves against infantry as well.

The HA is not a dedicated MAX killer, so it doesn't need to be able to consistently beat a MAX in a 1-on-1 firefight to prove its utility; it just needs to excel in its own niche on the battlefield. When you combine the versatility of the weapons loadout with the ability to operate vehicles, hack terminals, and be healed/revived by a medic, the HA seems more than capable of doing just that.

[Xyntech]

No class I've seen looks inherently gimped so far. Some seem to have more variety of things they can do, but even the class with the least variety (LA) is still looking to be a beast on the battlefield.

I'm just so happy that there's a reason to play a light class other than Infiltrators again. Surgile was broken, but if it hadn't been for the buggy networking issues, that shit was a lot of fun. I always preferred playing as Agile over Rexo, but it's just not worth it to me anymore.

But I think HA will still be the default infantry class a lot of the time. It just looks like it will be a really good, tough, well rounded fighting class. Just a simple, straight forward, shooting class. I think a lot of people will be drawn to that. I'll definitely go HA when the situation calls for it. Especially if the Lancer makes a properly functioning return and if our new HA gun is as awesome as I'm hoping it will be.

[Dougnifico]

You want to make HA more powerful? One word... Bipod.