Tanks are air food?

[Night]

Hola guys,

So, I am watching E3 and from what I understand the driver now controls the main gun in the heavy tank? At first thats a good thing I think. It was sometimes hard to get gunners in PS1. But now it will be even harder since they will just be on the secondary gun. This will make the tanks very vulnerable to air attack since in most cases noone will be manning the machine gun.

Maybe an option to switch gun when you are alone in a tank? :groovy:

[Anderz]

All the more reason to squad up and get a secondary gunner in your tank!

[Leet]

This just in: Tanks are vulnerable to air attack. I've never seen such horrible balance in any other video game..

Get a friend or join an outfit if you're so concerned about nobody manning your secondary guns. You can't expect to viably play certain things by yourself. Don't let the broken state of PS1 taint you.

[Canaris]

Team work is key to well run army, no team work then you deserve to be blown to bits.

Also tanks will be able to change out the standard anti-infatry secondary tank gun for either another anti-vehicle weapon or a anti-air gun. So there's no excuse.

[exoteror]

I do not belive tanks will be air food. I think considering that every vehical has access to air turrets, hit and run will possibily be more crucial than ever before.

[Flaropri]

Besides, it's a combined arms game, even if you don't have a second gunner or didn't take AA guns get some dedicated Anti-Air to escort your tanks, such as some air superiority fighters and/or missile launcher HAs or MAX Flak gunners in other vehicles.

[Night]

Yeah, yeah, you can get a gunner, or a squad to back you up, or a AA max running along side you... But will it happen? It did not happen in PS1.

Coordinated gameplay was not that common. Zerging was common. The gaming world might have evolved though...

[Kran De Loy]

Er.. Pretty sure the OP meant that giving the control of the main cannon to the driver makes getting someone to team up with you and help man the MBT even harder to do since they will only have access to the secondary turret. It was already a pain in the ass to get random pubs to help with the fun half of a MBT (the cannon), he seems concerned that it's just going to get harder now that that secondary gunner only gets the secondary gun. Since getting random pub gunners to help out means it's going to be more difficult for MBT to defend themselves against Aircav.

@OP: Yes it is possible to switch guns in the tank without having to leave the tank. Problem is that if you are the only one in the tank and you switch to the secondary turret to defend against the aircraft then you are not driving the tank. Or in other words the tank is not moving and an easier target.

Also if you're by yourself and you're having trouble getting someone to help you, just spawn a Lightning tank instead. It is a 1 man tank that is fast, but light armor and the cannon on it can be changed for Anti Vehicle or Anti Air or a few other options too. It can aim almost strait up to attack air or land targets with equal ease.

[DarkChiron]

Yeah, yeah, you can get a gunner, or a squad to back you up, or a AA max running along side you... But will it happen? It did not happen in PS1.

Coordinated gameplay was not that common. Zerging was common. The gaming world might have evolved though...

I believe the hope is that the easily operated VoIP functionality, combined with the mission objective system built into the game, will help to facilitate people working towards the same goal. It's alot better to hop in a vehicle than run there, and it's better to have a gunner than not. Hopefully if people can talk to each other easily it will be easier to tell the guy about to drive off that you're right behind him trying to be his gunner.

Or the VoIP will just be used to curse at each other and get into e-peen battles. We'll see.

[Canaris]

another good idea is to find an outfit that makes teamwork one of their priorities :)

[Flaropri]

Yeah, yeah, you can get a gunner, or a squad to back you up, or a AA max running along side you... But will it happen? It did not happen in PS1.

Coordinated gameplay was not that common. Zerging was common. The gaming world might have evolved though...

Improved communications will help with that as another said, but I'd also point out that it's not like you won't be ending up near a squad/MAX/fighters just incidentally, especially if there is more fighting on the supply lines then just in bases. They might not stick around the whole time but you can still benefit from their presence and any replacements that might come along. Besides, nothing says you have to stay in the tank if the battlefield conditions aren't conducive to tank use for whatever reason.

Just like you don't have to stay in any aircraft if conditions are bad for them.

[Karrade]

another good idea is to find an outfit that makes teamwork one of their priorities :)

Pretty much it.

Either get in a good platoon, that is giving orders/supporting, or get in a decent outfit. You'll not usually lack for support that way.

Join the Zerg and you get the zerg rules
Join an Outfit and you get the outfit rules

Both appeal to different gamers, both get catered for here.

-edit
To see if the platoon knows what its doing, ask for support as soon as you get in it, or ask for orders and see if anyone backs you up/or the leader offers directions. If not then move on.

[Astrok]

Besides, it's a combined arms game, even if you don't have a second gunner or didn't take AA guns get some dedicated Anti-Air to escort your tanks, such as some air superiority fighters and/or missile launcher HAs or MAX Flak gunners in other vehicles.


True.. like in real life a tank cant operate by itself when theirs air treats around.

so basicly u need to combine forces to be a nice and good force.

like tanks need aa.infantry need tanks to support them. etc

[ringring]

Yeah, yeah, you can get a gunner, or a squad to back you up, or a AA max running along side you... But will it happen? It did not happen in PS1.

Coordinated gameplay was not that common. Zerging was common. The gaming world might have evolved though...
But coordinated gameplay did exist in large part. Did you run with an outfit? Simply being part of a random squad would't do it.

[Tamas]

1) Get a lightning.
2) Outfit it with AA (best AA in game).
3) ????
4) Profit


pro-tip - ???? = shoot enemies with guns

[Zapalot]

Yeah, yeah, you can get a gunner, or a squad to back you up, or a AA max running along side you... But will it happen? It did not happen in PS1.

Coordinated gameplay was not that common. Zerging was common. The gaming world might have evolved though...

well in ps1 ill always got gunners in my prowl, bfr. Ppl love to shoot guns inside something armored :groovy:

[disky]

I don't see why they can't just allow for a 3 player option. One player drives the tank, one fires the main gun, and another fires the secondary turret. It doesn't have to be a requirement and if you're alone it can default to the current method, but if you have the people to do it, you should be able to.

[kadrin]

I don't see why they can't just allow for a 3 player option. One player drives the tank, one fires the main gun, and another fires the secondary turret. It doesn't have to be a requirement and if you're alone it can default to the current method, but if you have the people to do it, you should be able to.

Because that makes too much sense.

[Xyntech]

Aircraft in the first Planetside were pretty deadly, but if there was enough AA in the area it could be pretty difficult to be very effective. With the increase in number of units who can equip AA in PS2, in addition to small arms fire currently being pretty deadly to aircraft as well, I think that hit and run is going to be the name of the game.

Aircav working together with a team will probably be extremely deadly though. Aircraft are very fast now, so I could easily see having a guy on the ground provide intel on where there is a tank or other target, and then having the aircraft swarm in low to the ground, coming over a hill, laying waste to the target, then afterburning to safer skies.

There is a lot of room to balance it out though. I'm sure that it will get well balanced, and I'm sure there will still be people bitching about them regardless.

[Baneblade]

War Machine's tanks will eat air, especially those Galaxies and Liberators. Nothing is more of a surprise than being shot down with the main gun on a Vanguard. That said, we will have Battlestar rivalling point defenses. Our Vanguards will be main or secondary gunner based on driver preferences. But the secondary will most likely be the AI MG. AA on a Vanguard is craziness when Lightnings will do it better.

[Erendil]

Hola guys,

So, I am watching E3 and from what I understand the driver now controls the main gun in the heavy tank? At first thats a good thing I think. It was sometimes hard to get gunners in PS1. But now it will be even harder since they will just be on the secondary gun. This will make the tanks very vulnerable to air attack since in most cases noone will be manning the machine gun.

Maybe an option to switch gun when you are alone in a tank? :groovy:

Tanks will always be food for skilled Air Cav. It's just the nature of the beast, AA secondary gunner or not. ES Fighters just won't be able to hoverspam with impunity this time around like they could in PS1. :cool:


Oh, and as of now drivers of Medium Battle Tanks (the "heavy tanks" you mention: Vanguard/Prowler/Magrider) can insta-switch to the secondary gunner slot whenever they like without getting out of the vehicle. You just can't drive while doing so. :p

IMO, the only vehicle that should let the driver freely switch back and forth between it's two weapon systems while in full control of the vehicle is the Lightning - assuming it still has a secondary, coaxial LMG like it did in PS1 and which its offset turret and vehicle HUD graphic suggest:

http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg331/Erendil69/Planetside%202/LightningHUDGraphic.png

Giving the ability to switch back and forth between main cannon and secondary weapon solely to the Lightning would not only duplicate its Lightning and Skyguard heritage from PS1, but would feed right into its "versatility over straight-up firepower" design.

[Doxy]

Well since you do get assist kills exp, i don't think it will be such a problem to get 2nd gunners. And having voice com build iinto the game, will help you keep your pug gunner entertained =]


IMO, the only vehicle that should let the driver freely switch back and forth between it's two weapon systems while in full control of the vehicle is the Lightning - assuming it still has a secondary, coaxial LMG like it did in PS1 and which its offset turret and vehicle HUD graphic suggest:
.

Lightning is a single person tank.

[Necronile]

In BFBC2 its just the opposite...
You just need a second gunner and you will make it

[Erendil]

Lightning is a single person tank.


I'm fully aware of that. :p It was a 1-person tank in PS1 as well, and yet it still had a 75mm cannon and coaxial 12mm LMG on its turret, like so:


http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg331/Erendil69/Planetside%202/PSScreenShot0385.jpg


...and here it is from inside the tank:


http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg331/Erendil69/Planetside%202/PSScreenShot0462.jpg


In PS1 you had a toggle switch that'd let you swap back and forth between the two weapons on-the-fly while retaining full control of the vehicle. I'm saying that's how it should be designed in PS2 based on its past heritage, the graphic on PS2's HUD which looks to have a coax LMG on it next to the cannon, and its title as the "most versatile vehicle in PS2" by the Devs.

[Doxy]

In PS1 you had a toggle switch that'd let you swap back and forth between the two weapons on-the-fly. I'm saying that's how it should be in PS2 as well.
My bad =] misunderstood your post.
Yeah having a toggle between lmg and your main gun would be sweet on Lightning.

[Trafalgar]

This just in: Tanks are vulnerable to air attack. I've never seen such horrible balance in any other video game..



Yes! This is an outrage! In real life tanks can shoot down bombers with their main cannons, before the bombers can even get near them![citation needed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Citation_needed)]

[Erendil]

My bad =] misunderstood your post.
Yeah having a toggle between lmg and your main gun would be sweet on Lightning.

No worries, I could see how me calling its LMG a "secondary" weapon could throw ya off there. :groovy:

[kaffis]

I love how "it's hard to get gunners" in PS1 tanks, and we (well, not me, but you know what I mean) are all concerned that nobody will pull a tank if all they get to do is drive...

But we somehow expect people -- the same people who apparently don't want to hop into the main gun in PS1 -- will happily hop in and protect the driver/maingunner, who's having all the fun killing other tanks and infantry, from air attacks?

[Logon]

Ehh, why don't you just press 2 and switch seat to kill the plane?

[lolroflroflcake]

Tanks are supposed to be extremely vulnerable to air attacks, that is how it is supposed to be. In fact you should feel silly for suggesting its a bad thing.

[Turdicus]

A couple of things. First off it probably won't be very difficult to get a second gunner, especially when the devs have said many times that the secondary weapons would be very powerful (they definitely were in the e3 videos, tearing up planes in just a few seconds).

On the other topics addressed in this thread, the devs have said, and it has been displayed in totalbiscuits videos, that there will be coaxial weapons for many, if not all of the tanks. As for seat swapping, it is possible, but it looks like there will be a delay when switching seats, so it won't be ideal in every situation. (see quick seat swap below)

http://www.hamma.ws/ntemp/Vehicles/Magrider.jpg

So, hope that answers more than a few questions. I secretly hope that MBT's will get an AA main gun option, but I feel like that might be too much in terms of game play balance and generalizations.

[Nasher]

All you need is a couple of MAXes in the area using bursters and aircraft won't be able to get near without getting shredded, like in PS1.

In fact, once they game goes live and we have properly organized squads aircraft won't be able to get within a mile of the battle without getting shredded.

[Envenom]

Well you can hotswap between seats in your tank ala BF3, so I don't see this being a problem. Obvs, it's always better to have a friend or squadmate in your tank with you.

[Alanim]

Doesn't the main cannon on tanks destroy air vehicles pretty easily if you can manage to hit them? because it honestly doesn't look that hard to do.

Pretty sure there is even a video of arclegger 1 hitting a vehicle with a magrider.

[Cosmical]

Dont forget the way air vehicles move now, there wont be any sitting and spamming (accurately). The plane will have to make passes on your tank, hopefully when we get into Beta these things will be addressed, and a plane will require multiple passes to allow you to heal, run or fight back. Without taking a full salvo from orbit with no chance of retaliation.

[yuxin]

Rock beats scissors... I don't think there's a problem here, sir.