MAX jump.

[NewSith]

After playing some PS... I'll stop to say that I, for one never used a max in a serious fight. I used to have a MAX character on Markov, because I wanted to try it out, but never got serious about it.

So after playing some PS for once more, I realised that restricting MAX jump is stupid. I was searching for the discussion of the issue, didn't find a particular one, though people here and there do state /wfb or :confused:.

Considering that new max can be taken out rather easily without AV (by some classes) I just wanted to know if people think it's right or not, just to know what to expect.


EDIT: I'm talking about jumps, not jumpjetting. As in press -jump key- to jump over obstacles. In e3 footage a few maxes got into a deathtrap by jumping out of a galaxy and not being able to hop over even a small railing.

[QuantumMechanic]

MAXes in PS2 can jump? I've not heard any mention of that. Last I heard most MAX special abilites were still in flux, especially the Vanu one.

That being said, in PS1 the jump ability of the Vanu MAX was hands down the best and most used MAX special ability of all 3 empires... I wouldn't mind seeing it missing from PS2. And yes, I spent a lot of time playing as a Vanu MAX in PS1.

Edit: my answer is wait for beta (same as everything else)

[Slide Surveyor]

Cert to jump?

[Crator]

If you're in a good outfit and they run full squads there will always be a few spots for the MAX to be a dedicated role in a squad/platoon.

I'm not aware if they are adding jump capabilities in PS2 for the MAX. Pretty sure they aren't giving any of them the PS1 VS jump ability due to giving the Light Assault class jump packs. Perhaps it may be a cert that the MAX can get down the line though.

[NewSith]

MAXes in PS2 can jump? I've not heard any mention of that. Last I heard most MAX special abilites were still in flux, especially the Vanu one.

That being said, in PS1 the jump ability of the Vanu MAX was hands down the best and most used MAX special ability of all 3 empires... I wouldn't mind seeing it missing from PS2. And yes, I spent a lot of time playing as a Vanu MAX in PS1.

Edit: my answer is wait for beta (same as everything else)

MAXes can NOT jump. As in press jump key to jump over obstacles. Check the e3 footage, it was stressed a few times actually.

[QuantumMechanic]

MAXes can NOT jump. As in press <jump key> to jump over obstacles. Check the e3 footage, it was stressed a few times actually.

Ah, I see. I misunderstood.

I think it's important that MAXes can jump a *little*, so that they can navigate themselves to a good position (particularly for anti air and anti vechicular loadouts).

But it should be a lot more restricted than armored infantry.

In PS1 MAXes could jump, but would jump slowly and it cost a lot of stamina - more than it cost infantry when they jump.

I'm not aware of any stamina system in PS2, but whatever they use to stop infantry from bunnyhopping would work for MAXes as well. They just should make the adverse affect a bit stronger for MAXes.

[Shinjorai]

Well i dont know about jump but i definitely think they need to have some way to get out of those areas you mentioned. I seen that footage at E3 too, and i remember thinking it looked really unfair. It doesnt make much sense that theyd spend all this time engineering a machine that cant even go over a small obstacle. I know this is mainly about gameplay but i dont think it would be unbalanced to give them some way to get out of those kinds of sittuations as long as it doesnt give them too much mobility. Maybe give them a jump ability but have it have a cooldown timer on it. Like the hyrdaulic pressure had to build back up or something. Not sure if vanu maxs use hyrdaulics lol probably not but still have some sort of cool down on it. I think thatd be a good solution so it wasnt overpowered and they could still get unstuck.

[Hmr85]

I personally don't care if VS MAX's get it or not. It is not going to save you from taking a rocket up the ass. Not having it just keeps me from having to try a little harder.

[Crator]

But I always liked shooting my Pheonix rockets up VS max's ass...

[ChipMHazard]

I think it would be a good idea to allow MAXs to jump over some obstacles, instead of having to navigate fences like a mouse in a maze.
Perhaps a powered jump mechanic, one where you have to hold down the jump button for a little while, would allow them to get over certain obstacles without them being able to hop around.

[Notser]

the very idea that something that large could jump was silly in PS1, I would rather have the game allow for vaulting and such with the MAX unit to make it seem more connected with the environment.

[Crator]

How's it a silly idea? I think it's neat. It is a futuristic sci-fi shooter. So many possibilities!

[Bravix]

If they can't jump, they need to be able to vault.

Having not played PS2 yet, I think the MAX is going to be underused/not worthwhile as is. Making it unable to get over a tiny fence is even worse.

Pros:
-High damage for infantry class
-Can take a hit

Cons:
-Can't jump
-Costs resources
-Can be killed by a single, bouncing around FREE light assault
-Can't get into vehicles
-Can't hack
-Slow
-I'm sure there's more

The biggest thing is that it costs resources...but this isn't the appropriate thread for that really >.> Felt like ranting.

[QuantumMechanic]

If the idea is to discourage constant MAX play, most likely the first thing they will do is give it a resource cost. Or if it has one already, increase it.

[CutterJohn]

Definitely needs to be a jump to get over reasonable obstacles.

[Kriegson]

As someone else mentioned, a mechanic where, for instance; Hold the jump button down to pressurize the leg pneumatics, release to jump. While charging the pneumatics you cannot fire, though MAX's can jump a fair distance (not height).
Sort of a "leap" to allow them to dodge some AV or vehicles ramming if use skillfully, and to keep them unpredictable when players are fighting them (If you know it's simply going to trudge around, its easy to kite. If it sometimes leaps forwards varying distances, it becomes a lot harder to fight).

Perhaps there could even be a point in certing overdrive where you could transition from a fully charged leap into an overdrive sprint!

[SixShooter]

If the idea is to discourage constant MAX play, most likely the first thing they will do is give it a resource cost. Or if it has one already, increase it.

I think it would be ridiculous to want to restrict any type of legit gameplay. It's a F2P game, let people play how they want. If someone wants to play as a MAX 24/7 then good for them.

If not a jump mechanic then there needs to be something just to help from getting stuck in stupid places. It was kinda sad seeing them get stuck in the E3 footage:(

Better yet, add a jump ability but only for VS, I could live with that;)

[Rivenshield]

I wouldn't see anything wrong with a cert tree for the Vanu MAX allowing them to trade one weapon for jump jets. That's canon, after all.

[DarkChiron]

The OP's not talking about jump jets! They're talking about the ability for the MAX to even jump at all, because from the E3 footage they cannot.

I think allowing a MAX to jump over small guard rails wouldn't be bad. The idea some have proposed of having to hold down space bar for a short time to 'charge' up the jump seems like a good idea to me.

[jollytraveller]

I voted No. Max n00bs.

[mintyc]

i am ok with MAX's jumping they are limted in otherways and not alowing them to jump seems a little much. you can always limit the way they jump with a cooldown or something.

as for max jumpjets, i am ok with it so long as the trade off is significant i.e. have it be a slot item so they cant take something else that would give them a usefull ability. also a good few seconds cooldown on useing the jumpjets wouldent hurt ether, yoyoing VS max units was always a littlle silly.

i get the feeling that the TTK is going to rise during bata. there are going to be so many guns pointed at us at any one time we will need to have a little more surviveability if anyone is going to be able to move out of cover at all.

[Erendil]

Personally I like the fact that they can't jump in PS2. It gives the suits a feeling of real weight behind them, like you're humping a couple hundred kilos worth of powered armour, which let's face it, you are. :p

As someone else mentioned, a mechanic where, for instance; Hold the jump button down to pressurize the leg pneumatics, release to jump. While charging the pneumatics you cannot fire, though MAX's can jump a fair distance (not height).
Sort of a "leap" to allow them to dodge some AV or vehicles ramming if use skillfully, and to keep them unpredictable when players are fighting them (If you know it's simply going to trudge around, its easy to kite. If it sometimes leaps forwards varying distances, it becomes a lot harder to fight).

Perhaps there could even be a point in certing overdrive where you could transition from a fully charged leap into an overdrive sprint!


I was thinking something along the lines of a slow climb. So you hold down the "jump" key and over the next few seconds the MAX would grab or brace his arms on the railing (or whatever) and slowly swing over first one leg, then the other.

That'd let them (evetnually) go over any obstacle that's about waist-high. But they're not gonna be using it for dodging or chasing after injured softies.

[Kran De Loy]

Definitely needs to be a jump to get over reasonable obstacles.

Or rather the unreasonable sort.

"It's 30 inches high! Why can't I just step on it and walk over it!?"

Btw: I have honestly no freaking clue what the two options mean. Which is the one that says yes for MAX Vault/Minimal Jump?

[Goldeh]

I vote for jump over obstacles, but no spam jump. It would be lame otherwise.

[Kran De Loy]

Honestly think about it moment.

How would spam jumping in a MAX suit work? How would it look? Would it be effective for anything other then looking like you fell asleep at the keyboard?

It wouldn't. Dumb. Nothing.

However jumping in a MAX is still something that needs to be in the game just going by the evidence in the E3 videos.

[SG Gonad]

Very small jumps like, 20 to 30 inches to clear small obstacles are fine with me. Jump jets are stupid for Max's.

I always loved it when the Vanu Max used jump jets. It was like Barney Skeet Shooting

[thegreekboy]

If they can't jump, they need to be able to vault.

Having not played PS2 yet, I think the MAX is going to be underused/not worthwhile as is. Making it unable to get over a tiny fence is even worse.

Pros:
-High damage for infantry class
Kind of understated. MAXs can wreck pretty much anything given the right loadout
-Can take a hit
-The most powerful AA weapon in the game
Cons:
-Can't jump
Is this REALLY that big of a deal?
-Costs resources
Subject to change
-Can be killed by a single, bouncing around FREE light assault
Yea, in about 7-8 clips
-Can't get into vehicles
Except for the Galaxy and Sunderer
-Can't hack
Would cause MAX to be OP
-Slow
Comparatively
-I'm sure there's more
There really isn't

The biggest thing is that it costs resources...but this isn't the appropriate thread for that really >.> Felt like ranting.

Replies in red

[Goldeh]

Honestly think about it moment.

How would spam jumping in a MAX suit work? How would it look? Would it be effective for anything other then looking like you fell asleep at the keyboard?

It wouldn't. Dumb. Nothing.

However jumping in a MAX is still something that needs to be in the game just going by the evidence in the E3 videos.

It would be bad ya. Cooldown jump over obstructions like the fences in E3. Just say the suit's gyros are overheating or something.

[Brusi]

Or find all the places that MAX units might get stuck during beta... then add a way out?

Just a suggestion, i actually would prefer some level of manuverability over certain obstacles, such as a very basic vault function.

Definitely minimise the shortcuts they can take compared to more mobile infantry though.

[Cordless]

Not being able to jump is less of a class limitation as it is a level design question. Did they make the base so you HAVE to be able to jump to get out of room X? If there are stairs or ramps everywhere it's not necessary. Plus bunny hopping maxes looks silly.
I LOVE in videos how heavy and stompy the Maxes appear, they seem less like bulky FPS people and more like giant exo suits with guns welded on the arms.

[OutlawDr]

Definitely have less areas where a max can get stuck. MAX players will be exiting from galaxies often, so its going to happen often.

But yea, let the poor guys jump. Even if it looks stupid. Maybe have it visually look like a limited and quick jump jet boost. Enough to jump over railing, but nothing more.

[Kran De Loy]

30 inches is 2.5 feet. A little over knee height for most people. On a MAX unit 30 inches is more likely to be just under the knee level. Can you imagine having to vault over something that doesn't even reach up to your knees?

However there are barriers that are maybe hip high on a normal soldier that should would likely be just about mid or upper thigh on a MAX that should be an absolute frustration to a MAX, but just about right for a footstomper to duck behind for cover or leap/vault over.

[Karrade]

My best prediction, Max's are going to be everywhere with the influx of the vital engineer class, so some way to thin the numbers of max spam is welcome. No to jumping, if you must put a climb animation in, so they do so very slowly. HA's are already, to me (I realise its a personal thing, debated it already), looking like 2nd class assault troops. No need to give their advantage up to Max's being able to jump.

[Rago]

Just the Vanu MAX should Jump.Fly.
Because the TR and the NC are Living in the Past*hehe
No kidding :P

It would be nice to have a option of "unstuck"

[exLupo]

While I'd be fine with no jumping in a smaller game, in something as expansive as this I believe jumping is a necessity. Nothing major but there will be times, as stated above, that MAXes end up in buggy (yes, buggy) terrain. Unless it's the dev's intent to occasionally force MAX users to have to suicide when wedged between two rocks that any other unit could hop out of.

I can't see a down side to letting the suits have low-grade hops. However, I've always been easily pissed off by characters getting stuck in geometry. Without jumping it'll happen more often than you think. Next time you're playing any type of open-world game (Skyrim for example), whenever you fall off something and can't get out without jumping, that's another wasted MAX and frustrated player.

[Limnas]

restricting it is a good idea cause how in the world wouldn a ginormous walking machine jump?

[Crator]

^^^ Ever hear of technology that assists with allowing such a thing? Iron Man, VS MAXes, BFRs... There's more I'm sure!

[xnorb]

I voted for No jumping for MAX.
Shouldn't get stuck on things able to step over, but jumping - nope.

Just because i think it's too heavy for such a move.
(And well, supporting mechanics can apply to everything, i also don't want
recoil-less 1 hit kill weapons with auto-aim and homing projectiles ...)

[Canaris]

your phrasing of the poll choices could use work

Do you think restricting MAX's jump is a good idea?

Yes -
No -

No I don't think it's a good idea to restrict them to having no jump, they should be able to get over small obstacles.

[Boomhowser]

Max needs a basic jump simple as...
if you hot drop on a base and fall behind a railing you need simple function to manauver over it.. in e3 live stream it showed a max bail from a plane (not available in live but imagine that it was a gal drop instead) he fell behind railings with no route out and was forced to suicide not enjoyable for the player at hand and could be detrimental to a squads success on a live server all because game mechanics would not allow it.
If need be make it a slow jet jump and you cant fire weapons whilst its active that way no bunnyhopping mechs but they can still manauver over badly designed terrain glitches if required.

[Pyreal]

I saw the E3 footage where a LA took out one or two MAXs, and that needs to be looked at more than jumping.

Remove headshot bonuses or something. We'll get it figured out in beta.

[TerminatorUK]

I think they need a small jump ability as per PS1. The E3 footage showed a MAX getting completely stuck behind a barrier after a gal drop - it isn't fun for the player involved.

In PS1, MAX jumping was added post-release in conjunction with the release of Core Combat as the many steps / minor ledges in the caverns would have make it a very frustrating experience as a MAX otherwise.

Having said that, if a universal MAX special was added to have jump jets, the issue wouldn't be such a problem as it'd be your choice whether to have that extra mobility or not.

[Stew]

MAX should have a BF3 style of animation to pass over object whiout been able to really (( jump )) Problem solve ;)

[ChipMHazard]

MAX should have a BF3 style of animation to pass over object whiout been able to really (( jump )) Problem solve ;)

Except they would have to make said animation and they aren't using ANT( the engine not the vehicle, heh).

Of course I don't know how well their engine supports animation.

[DarkChiron]

SARCOS half human half robot - YouTube

If we can do this now, I fail to see how the futuristic sci-fi game can't do better. Sure the MAX suit weighs tons, but it's not like the human inside it does the lifting. THE SUIT DOES. It makes no sense at all for the huge mechanical legs to not have the power to propel themselves off the ground.

[maddoggg]

I think MAXes should have a small jump or atleast a walk over small obstacle mechanic similar to jumping over stuff in bf3.
Having to suicide because you got stuck behind a 5cm wall is simply moronic.