Will infantry be safer from arial attack in PS2?

[Ghoest9]

The one thing I dont like in PS1 is how easy it is to pick off infantry with aircraft one on one. It really limits the infantry tactical game as compared to other FPS.

I especially dont like it with sniper and infiltrators. Basically the safest way to play grunt is in a huge mass and it really should be the opposite.

Now of course if you use anti aircraft weapons it fine if you light up like a Christmas tree and I I dont have an issue with being seens by other infantry at all.

Is it going to be harder to pick off infantry with aircraft in PS2?


EDIT: Because some people are creating a strawman to argue against me.
Im not asking for grunts to have an easier time killing aircraft. Im saying grunts that engaged in other operations should have an easier time hiding from aircraft - especially if you are actively trying to hide.

[Zalmoxis]

I don't know how it was in PS1, but I can tell you how it is in BF3. Horrible, but it is do-able. Just find cover as soon as you see enemy aircraft on the horizon heading your way and just avoid their line of fire.

[Otleaz]

Anyone else picture a soldier fending off letters when they read the title?

[WorldOfForms]

This brings up a big concern. If only HA and MAX can carry AV, what are all the other classes supposed to do?

That was the one method of defense infantry had in PS1 - to carry AV.

[Stardouser]

We definitely need a bit of healthy separation between infantry and aircraft. Aircraft shouldn't be able to see infantry that easily and infantry on the other hand, shouldn't all be running around with powerful AA like you would expect from an AA vehicle.

Hopefully the class system limiting AA to MAX and HA will achieve this. We shall see.

[Sledgecrushr]

By judging from the videos Ive seen it looks like there will be plenty of cover for infantry on foot. Vehicles though look to be sol.

[Juturna]

Anyone else picture a soldier fending off letters when they read the title?

this or the little mermaid

[Kevin D Lee]

This brings up a big concern. If only HA and MAX can carry AV, what are all the other classes supposed to do?

That was the one method of defense infantry had in PS1 - to carry AV.

This is a team game. If you're playing solo you're the fool. I'll be playing with a squad or platoon at all times so that we have people for every encounter.

Roles are important in this game. To be frank an aircraft SHOULD have an easy time with infantry... this isn't a game for 1v1 balance for everything.

[OhFiddlesticks]

Planetside 2 seems like it'll have more cover for infantry. What I don't want to see is another Planetside 1 in that everyone and their mother is an AA gun.

[Kevin D Lee]

Planetside 2 seems like it'll have more cover for infantry. What I don't want to see is another Planetside 1 in that everyone and their mother is an AA gun.

That's more a result of everyone wanting to be a damn pilot.

[maradine]

Individual, non-AV infantry caught out in the open are going to die vs. vehicles of all types. Period.

In other news, an individual medic caught out in the open with a AI MAX is going to get slaughtered, and an individual sniper caught at point blank by anything is probably going to die. You will be caught at the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong gear in this game. It's up to you to minimize that.

If you have a local air superiority problem, get on your keyboard in a continental chat. Turns out, there are people planning to be mobile solutions to that very scenario, and they're probably hungry for kills.

[Murkie]

This is a team game. If you're playing solo you're the fool. I'll be playing with a squad or platoon at all times so that we have people for every encounter.

Roles are important in this game. To be frank an aircraft SHOULD have an easy time with infantry... this isn't a game for 1v1 balance for everything.

Totally agree with this. If an aircraft comes across infantry that have no air cover or specialized anti-air, then hand held AA should not cause the pilot too much concern. Unless of course, it is concentrated hand held AA.. then it's a different story.

[Boomhowser]

If you're playing solo you're the fool.

Disagree with you here.. sometimes its nice to take a break and just run solo for an hour or so no pressure to live upto just you your rifle and 999 zerglings running infront of you..

However to the OP... for the most part players will be running in squads and thier is always someone that fills a role you cannot hence this being a team based game .

No vid I have seen to date has lead me to believe it will be any harder than PS1 for aircav to eliminate infantry so I suspect main ways to combat this is run with a good squad/outfit or play wisely and be aware of your surroundings or my personal favorite of leading the TR aircav to a vs Infantry squad and watching him switch targets as I run away giggling inanely to myself (hope thats still possible in PS2 :D )

[WorldOfForms]

So everyone wants it to be the same model as in PS1 where an aircraft can play solo, while infantry can't?

I'm not advocating for solo infantry. But why do aircraft once again get to be the catch-all soloer's tool?

[Sledgecrushr]

So everyone wants it to be the same model as in PS1 where an aircraft can play solo, while infantry can't?

I'm not advocating for solo infantry. But why do aircraft once again get to be the catch-all soloer's tool?

Mobility mobility mobility

[maradine]

For starters, that's generally the nature of aircraft in any narrative, real, game, or otherwise.

Second, there are a number of aircraft that aren't solo tools.

Finally, for the single-seaters, if they're flying around solo and stray into their counter, namely AA, they are also toast like any other solo player.

[Crator]

You can still play solo in the game. Revert to more of a support/defense role for solo activities is the best way I've found it in PS1.

[Boomhowser]

So everyone wants it to be the same model as in PS1 where an aircraft can play solo, while infantry can't?

I'm not advocating for solo infantry. But why do aircraft once again get to be the catch-all soloer's tool?

Kinda lost me to be honest.. maybe the games altered over the years that I havnt played it, but if a solo aircraft killed me as an infantry man I tended to respawn and depending on the skys, load up an aa max suit and wipe out a ton of aircav or load up my phoenix trooper and send up a present either they fled the battlefield or they hung around hoping to find me before the second missle took them down.

see your looking at it wrong, its not can an aircraft run solo can an infantry run solo. Its more a case of can the player run solo regardless of his certs :p

[Electrofreak]

Aircraft will only be an issue for infantry with low IQ's, just like in the first game.

...

I can tell you didn't play NC; life is a lot easier versus aircraft with a Striker or Lancer when you're facing down a Mosquito one-on-one.

[Ghoest9]

For starters, that's generally the nature of aircraft in any narrative, real, game, or otherwise.

Second, there are a number of aircraft that aren't solo tools.

Finally, for the single-seaters, if they're flying around solo and stray into their counter, namely AA, they are also toast like any other solo player.

No that is incorrect.

Yes if you stand in a the middle of a field shooting at people you are an easy target for a chopper.

But IN PS1 you can basically do everything that possible to use cover and wear camo but if you try to flank an enemy position you are utterly vulnerable to any skeeoter that is paying attention.

Im not suggesting that solo infantry be able to take on aircraft one on one.
Im saying it shouldnt be hard to hide from one.

[Electrofreak]

I played all empires and was never really farmed by air while infantry. If there were a lot of Mosquito's around, I'd grab a Reaver and try to kill them. If there was no Tech Plant, I'd try with a Mosquito. Often I succeeded, solo or grouped. I became obsessed with A2A at some point and quickly became good enough that nobody except Ahriman Corps scared me anymore.

I never absolutely had to play infantry. I did so when the situation called for it, or when the situation allowed it and I felt like doing it. I wasn't married to my Reaver either. If the fight had too much AA or there was too much lag to aim reliably, I would drive people around in tanks, or go stealth.

It's true that on a 1v1 basis, aircraft have always had the most power in the right hands. It's also true that some people are idiots who try the same thing over and over and then blame the game for their failures.

I was talking more about the scenario where you're in a pitched battle as infantry and get attacked by aircraft, not one where you're 10 feet from a Vehicle Terminal.

[julfo]

Anyone else picture a soldier fending off letters when they read the title?

Yes!!! :rofl:

[Stardouser]

In order to fulfill a mission, we need people to stay with their assigned roles. Infantry for example are needed to capture the cap points. Sure, we could say, just stop and go get your own aircraft to deal with it, but then who will do the capping? This is why we need some separation between infantry and air. That does not mean aircraft weapons should be weak against infantry, it means it is of paramount importance that aircraft not have it super easy to see and snipe infantry. Lots of cover is one way to address this, and not having 3D spotting which will allow aircraft to have too much omniscience, is another.

And having a good system for identifying a need for air support is yet another. I think squad leaders should be able to identify themselves as needing both air support against enemy ground units, and also have a way marking their squad as needing support against enemy air units.

[Electrofreak]

Strengths and weaknesses. The Phoenix' weakness was that it required practice to aim without guidance. Its strength was its damage per shot and the fact that it could be fired from a sheltered location. Many people never grasped the concepts of target leading, teamwork and denial. This is the primary reason why they got farmed.

1v1 should never be the sole basis for judging weapons. 2 or 3 guys with Phoenixes, and the situation would have been completely different. Perhaps even to the point of beating 2 or 3 guys with Lancers in G2A efficacy. Of course you have to make sure that you have 2 others near you though. Not everyone did that. You can lone wolf it, but expect to be forced into a smaller frame of options. This is true almost everywhere in life.

I agree, but the reality is, most people pick up the easy-to-use weapon and continue to use it. If it's not easy to use, they pick up a Jackhammer instead, hop into a Standard Exosuit, and run around towers with the JH on triple-fire, safe from aircraft. ;)

One reason why, as NC, I never certed HA.

We're expecting far too much of people if we think that the majority will be willing to "practice" with a difficult weapon. :p

[Ghoest9]

Strengths and weaknesses. The Phoenix' weakness was that it required practice to aim without guidance. Its strength was its damage per shot and the fact that it could be fired from a sheltered location. Many people never grasped the concepts of target leading, teamwork and denial. This is the primary reason why they got farmed.

1v1 should never be the sole basis for judging weapons. 2 or 3 guys with Phoenixes, and the situation would have been completely different. Perhaps even to the point of beating 2 or 3 guys with Lancers in G2A efficacy. Of course you have to make sure that you have 2 others near you though. Not everyone did that. You can lone wolf it, but expect to be forced into a smaller frame of options. This is true almost everywhere in life.


blah blah

one v one misrepresentation

This issue isnt being able to kill an aircraft 1v1.

Im talking about it being impossible to for 1 guy to even hide from enemy aircraft.

If you are trying to shoot down airplanes alone the yes you should have the odds against you.
On the other hand if you are wearing camo crawling through the brush trying to flank a tower you should not be easy picking for any skeeter that feels like taking a quick look.

[diLLa]

You should be fine, unless you play like a headless chicken.

[Electrofreak]

People who simply don't want to learn will be farmed and stomped forever. Nothing we can do about that.

I would agree with that, but history shows a trend of the gaming industry catering those who don't want to learn in the last few years. We already know that PS2 is going to be dumbed-down to an extent (by the dev's own admissions) but my sincere hope is that SOE won't take it too far.

[Khrakhan]

agreed. but only up above a given altitude. If you're low enough, then you should just have as much visibility range/detection as anybody on the ground would.

I don't know how well the detection system is at the moment or how the spotting will work, but I can agree that even as a pilot I don't need to see all the infantry if I'm flying around. I would have to get to such a low altitude that it would be dangerous for me to do it in the first place.

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Aircraft will only be an issue for infantry with low IQ's, just like in the first game.

AA will only be an issue for Aircraft with low IQ's, just like in the first game.

If an Aircraft commits for a kill and there is sufficient hand held AA around (ie 2 grunts), they should die, especially now with a fucking 1km flight ceiling, the only reason they should ever get shot at by ground fire is if they decide to go low enough.

[Tsunami]

I noticed that the most effective way to deal with aircraft was using the turret from the engineer. since flak seemed to just like mess with them and the aircraft could use flares. They may change it but that's what I've gotten.

[Electrofreak]

I noticed that the most effective way to deal with aircraft was using the turret from the engineer. since flak seemed to just like mess with them and the aircraft could use flares. They may change it but that's what I've gotten.

The base turrets can be changed to AA but the Engineer's MANA Turret only came in AI and AV flavors at E3.

http://www.hamma.ws/ntemp/Infantry/Engineer/EnginACE.jpg

[Khrakhan]

AA will only be an issue for Aircraft with low IQ's, just like in the first game.

If an Aircraft commits for a kill and there is sufficient hand held AA around (ie 2 grunts), they should die, especially now with a fucking 1km flight ceiling, the only reason they should ever get shot at by ground fire is if they decide to go low enough.

What did happen to that damn 'thanks' button?;)

[Stardouser]

The base turrets can be changed to AA but the Engineer's MANA Turret only came in AI and AV flavors at E3.


I wonder if AV counts double duty? I mean there are basically three AA types: Projectile(bullets), Flak, and missiles. Maybe MANA turrets are just simple projectiles against both ground and air?

Or, maybe the Spitfire turret is the AA turret.

[Khrakhan]

The base turrets can be changed to AA but the Engineer's MANA Turret only came in AI and AV flavors at E3.

http://www.hamma.ws/ntemp/Infantry/Engineer/EnginACE.jpg


But I'm pretty sure it was mentioned that they would be able to customize for AA as well though. I dk, could be mistaken I guess, but it would make sense it would be available since they have been talking about just how many options there are, and I can see no reason to restrict engineer's from AA...

[Littleman]

My AA of choice when I was caught in the open without AV was the rifle in my hands.

The Vanu think they're smart, yet those without a lancer but instead equipped with a Pulsar prefer to run around screaming when an aircraft or MAX shows up instead of swapping to AP mode - which takes all of .3 seconds - and blasting the damn thing. I prefer not to die with bullet holes riddling my back.

3+ guns concentrating on a mossy, reaver, or MAX will put them down faster than a single guy with a lancer in fact. The pulsar is the only thing that calls me back to the VS. It has no real weakness.

Fortunately, my loyalties to the human race are far stronger.

I've soloed down MAX's and mossies using AP ammo on my cycler (the latter notably harder.) I'd really had preferred to have AV at the time, but I also lacked the certs. Coincidentally, reavers only kind of need to aim, so winning against them alone armed with only an AP loaded cycler is a miracle. I don't waste the ammo on anything heavier than a reaver unless it's sitting at a sliver of life.

Sadly, regarding PS2 I'm in the dark. I doubt there is AP ammo in this iteration, and I have no idea how reavers/scythes/MAXes will react to Cycler rounds. Or even the Pulsar.

[Comet]

Play as a team.

[Knightwyvern]

This is a team game. If you're playing solo you're the fool. I'll be playing with a squad or platoon at all times so that we have people for every encounter.

Roles are important in this game. To be frank an aircraft SHOULD have an easy time with infantry... this isn't a game for 1v1 balance for everything.

Pretty much this.

We aren't playing in 32 player maps; this is an MMOFPS. There are no bots (yet at least.) Combined arms is the way to go. Infantry shouldn't be able to take out an equally skilled Aircraft pilot 1v1. That is what the Skyguard turret on the Lightning is for.

Then, guess what? Skyguard Lightning a problem for your own teammates? NO problem. Roll a MBT or attack with an HA heavy platoon.

The problem here I think is that people who like Infantry combat want to be able to kill everything else 1v1. People who like to fly want to be able to kill everything else 1v1; same for people who like big tanks etc. We will all have to get used to getting slaughtered by one thing or another. Infantry < Gunship. Gunship < Skyguard. Skyguard < MBT. This is one of the reasons I'm a bit bummed about driver gunners actually. Seems more fair that you need 2 guys to dominate a wing of aircraft vs only one.

If we don't have combined arms in PS2, an MMOFPS, what is there left over but CoD Online: Sci-Fi edition?

[SKYeXile]

Im sure in the small fighters where there are idiots running around with no AA or air cover, while wearing their pants on their heads, aircraft will be more effective since they have flares and also they kill very fast by the looks of it.

But in a large fight id expect their ability to be more limited due to mass AA and anybody butt hurt gravitating towards AA, they of course wouldn't be able to hover spam in a high density fight like you can in a small fight.

[Warborn]

...

I can tell you didn't play NC; life is a lot easier versus aircraft with a Striker or Lancer when you're facing down a Mosquito one-on-one.

elfailo is an idiot. If you were happened upon by a reaver or mosquito unless you had several other people shooting at it as it engaged you, you were dead. Even if you had AV, it would simply fly right up to you and unload enough missiles to kill you several times over. Whether you had a striker or not really didn't matter.

In PS2 it will probably be exactly the same. The only difference is that reaver whores may find themselves unable to constantly pull reavers on account of resource costs.

[Landtank]

In PS2 it will probably be exactly the same. The only difference is that reaver whores may find themselves unable to constantly pull reavers on account of resource costs.

Someone sounds jealous! Just because the Reaver is the bestest doesn't mean you have to get mad at us pilots :(

[Graywolves]

You will be caught at the wrong place at the wrong time in the wrong gear in this game. It's up to you to minimize that.


Sums up Planetside pretty well.

[SKYeXile]

elfailo is an idiot. If you were happened upon by a reaver or mosquito unless you had several other people shooting at it as it engaged you, you were dead. Even if you had AV, it would simply fly right up to you and unload enough missiles to kill you several times over. Whether you had a striker or not really didn't matter.

In PS2 it will probably be exactly the same. The only difference is that reaver whores may find themselves unable to constantly pull reavers on account of resource costs.

If the infantry had no cover then yea the aircraft would win, while Its pretty hard for a lone infantry to kill a half decent pilot, they can certainly scare them off. Especially if they're not a derp and like move and shoot them and stuff.

[Bags]

Seeing as they die in about 4 rockets, no.

[TheSaltySeagull]

I do share some concerns when it comes to single person aircraft. While I agree a lone infantry man should not be able to solo an aircraft(even a single person one) at the same time I do not want to see a return of air cav dominance over outdoor battles.

In PS1 air cav pilots could pretty much kill anything with impunity because they could either just straight up kill everything or AB away if the situation warranted it. Even those supposed counters like the skyguard, BFR with AA, or AA max could be killed by a reaver if the reaver got the first shot off or you could bail on top of them with AV. Or at the very least just fly away and avoid death. Only pilots that ever die to ground AA are hover spammers who got too greedy for kills.

Some of these issues like bailing have already been addressed in PS2 so it wont be as bad. And aircraft do appear to be more fragile and harder to fly based on the alpha footage(this of course could change) so I am more hopeful but at the same time I am keeping a close eye on this. I dont want to see a return of aircraft farming everything on the ground and then being able to fly away when ever things got too hot for them. For the record it does not appear that will be the case in PS2 but we will see.

EDIT: Keep in mind I am obviously biased and have a particular hatred for single person air cav so take what I say with a grain of salt. Its one of the few things in PS that makes me rant.

[Transport]

Anyone else picture a soldier fending off letters when they read the title?

I pictured the little mermaid being queen on the TR and just stabbing the crap out of NC, but yeah.

[Electrofreak]

Nice to see you're still grudging, spineless atheist.

Maybe if you actually had some good points here I'd spend more time replying to you, but you've already proven that you're incapable of changing your opinions even if the contradicting truth hits you in the face like a battering ram.

Would totally have let your post go but then you brought religion (or lack thereof) into it.

That's just pathetic, GTFO. There's a separate forum for that shit.

[cHaM]

The one thing I dont like in PS1 is how easy it is to pick off infantry with aircraft one on one. It really limits the infantry tactical game as compared to other FPS.

I especially dont like it with sniper and infiltrators. Basically the safest way to play grunt is in a huge mass and it really should be the opposite.

Now of course if you use anti aircraft weapons it fine if you light up like a Christmas tree and I I dont have an issue with being seens by other infantry at all.

Is it going to be harder to pick off infantry with aircraft in PS2?

What game are you playing?

Seriously, you're calling for even more AA in PS2 than what is already in PS1? Are you seriously fucking dense?

[Knightwyvern]

Nice to see you're still grudging, spineless atheist.

Maybe if you actually had some good points here I'd spend more time replying to you, but you've already proven that you're incapable of changing your opinions even if the contradicting truth hits you in the face like a battering ram.

Ad Hominem BS. Go away.

OT: Beta beta blah blah.

[lolroflroflcake]

Anyone else picture a soldier fending off letters when they read the title?

"That was close we barely survived that wave" *looks to the horizon* " Oh my god, those letters are both bolded and italicized, RUNAWAY!"

[typhaon]

It will be fun when we're actually playing beta... giving feedback... new patches come out with balance adjustments... and we test those... then give more feedback....

You all know that's how it works, right? Til then I wouldnt' worry about what seems balanced/unbalanced based on an E3 video.

I know.. what else do we do til beta...

[Ratstomper]

It will be fun when we're actually playing beta... giving feedback... new patches come out with balance adjustments... and we test those... then give more feedback....

You all know that's how it works, right? Til then I wouldnt' worry about what seems balanced/unbalanced based on an E3 video.

I know.. what else do we do til beta...

Play PS1? OR maybe make use of what little time we have left to actually get things done. Ya know.... work, school, relationships, etc.

[PeteHMB]

The one thing I dont like in PS1 is how easy it is to pick off infantry with aircraft one on one. It really limits the infantry tactical game as compared to other FPS.

I especially dont like it with sniper and infiltrators. Basically the safest way to play grunt is in a huge mass and it really should be the opposite.

Now of course if you use anti aircraft weapons it fine if you light up like a Christmas tree and I I dont have an issue with being seens by other infantry at all.

Is it going to be harder to pick off infantry with aircraft in PS2?

Last time I checked an Apache, Hind, AH6, etc all dominate infantry 1 on 1...that's kind of the POINT is that it's no longer infantry vs infantry. Don't bring a sniper rifle to an aircraft fight. Don't bring a knife to a tank fight. Stop trying to be a 1 man army. If you want to snipe you better have someone watching your back. Even AV/AA infantry vs aircraft 1 on 1 shouldn't win easily, if at all. If you make it where anyone can take anything 1 on 1...then what's the point of the vehicle? There's going to be HUNDREDS of people on each side. Vehicles will be utterly useless if they nerf them to be easily killed 1 on 1.

[Quirc]

To be entirely honest, my initial reaction when a friend showed me this thread was that the OP was inquiring whether infantry would be safe from arial attacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arial) :p

Anyway, it's a pretty simple thing to me. Aircraft were originally employed in RL history to defeat entrenched infantry, and by default tend to have the advantage. There's always a counter to a counter in warfare and as long as you stay smart, you'll do well enough I'm sure.

Also, hi, first time poster, full time Vanu. :)

[Kezz]

Overall, it'll depend on how much aircraft cost. If they're expensive and on long timers, they'll a) be uncommon, so less of a prevalent threat and b) they'll be deterred by ground-based AA more often.

Yes, GA airframes should own unprotected ground forces. By the same token, they should have a deep and abiding respect for the ability of those ground forces to tear them out of the sky. No pilot should ever sit still if locked up by missiles; they should be getting their flock out of Dodge.

[TheSaltySeagull]

Last time I checked an Apache, Hind, AH6, etc all dominate infantry 1 on 1...that's kind of the POINT is that it's no longer infantry vs infantry. Don't bring a sniper rifle to an aircraft fight. Don't bring a knife to a tank fight. Stop trying to be a 1 man army. If you want to snipe you better have someone watching your back. Even AV/AA infantry vs aircraft 1 on 1 shouldn't win easily, if at all. If you make it where anyone can take anything 1 on 1...then what's the point of the vehicle? There's going to be HUNDREDS of people on each side. Vehicles will be utterly useless if they nerf them to be easily killed 1 on 1.

Just to play devils advocate here one man ground vehicles are routinely soloed by infantry in PS1 by using jammers/AV. Granted the vehicle would still hold the advantage but its very doable. Meanwhile its nearly impossible to solo a one man aircraft like a mossie unless the pilot is horrible, even using the correct weaponry.

Keep in mind I am not saying I think a single grunt should be able to solo aircraft I am just saying that the argument that infantry should auto lose vs vehicles seems to fall short in my opinion because it does not hold true in PS1. At least not in terms of ground vehicles. And I think thats one of the reasons people hate on air more than ground vehicles because they feel so utterly helpless against air where as with ground vehicles they can deal with them better, even when alone.

[Sabot]

IMO infanty didn't die fast enough vs aircraft in PS1 :P I think infantry was very well protected vs vehices overall. They always had more than enough time to find cover (if there were any), and if they had AA weapons they always had a chance. With an entire army behind them, trying to pick off infantry was a big no no in a aircraft.

This ofc wasn't unblanced imo, since you could pull as many aircraft you wanted... in PS2 though, I suppose it depends on how common aircav is. If they're meant to be scarce they should tear though infantry with ease. If they aren't that uncommon though, I guess they shouldn't be that powerful, for the sake of balance.

Meh... I don't see why it's even a concern.... like with everything, if it's too powerful it'll be fixed. I mean... I like flying. It's what I do. But I'm not concerned about skyguards being OP. In PS1 a good skyguard gunner could rip reavers out of the sky like crazy... not to mention the AA MAX's. You just have to accept that some things will kill you faster than you can react at times... deal with it.

[Canaris]

this or the little mermaid

the title made me instantly cringe with the thoughts of being reaver gangbanged but I prefer your version lol :D

[Ghoest9]

Last time I checked an Apache, Hind, AH6, etc all dominate infantry 1 on 1...that's kind of the POINT is that it's no longer infantry vs infantry. Don't bring a sniper rifle to an aircraft fight. Don't bring a knife to a tank fight. Stop trying to be a 1 man army. If you want to snipe you better have someone watching your back. Even AV/AA infantry vs aircraft 1 on 1 shouldn't win easily, if at all. If you make it where anyone can take anything 1 on 1...then what's the point of the vehicle? There's going to be HUNDREDS of people on each side. Vehicles will be utterly useless if they nerf them to be easily killed 1 on 1.


You mixed facts with gibberish.

An Apache or Hind will win a fight against one soldier usually.

But one soldier can usually hide from an Apache or Hind and avoid the fight all together.

No one suggested aircraft should fear one soldier. The suggestion was that a soldier in camo no stand out like a sore thumb if he makes a modest effort to not be noticed.

Sniper teams and small covert special forces units are a normal part ;larger military operations. They should be vulnerable esspcially to spotting by other ground forces, but they should not be fish in a barral for any passing aircraft who bothers to look down.


And yes advanced thermal imaging does change some of this - but that like some other real life technology(computer aimed machine guns for instance) isnt something makes for fun game play.

[mirwalk]

I hate aircraft with a passion. I work at AA in most games. Now let me clarify, I am not a good pilot. I don't like to try to shoot down aircraft with another aircraft. Usually I got up in the air and go boom. So most of my work is from turret or land based.
We have all been there on a BF3 map or some other game with aircraft. One side has 2 or 3 GOOD pilots and you can't bring them down. Flares, afterburners, chaff, obstructions, range, the amount of options to protect an aircraft from being shot down are numerous. PS2 being what it is, will get a lot of these players, I fear the grunts may get farmed. Now if half the people on the ground pull HA, they need to be able to clear out he skies. the issue I usually see is that flares or chaff will protect you from guided rockets and by the time you get another lock-on the cooldown is up.

Most of this seems to hinge on how well the AA options are. After seeing the full AA flak MAX, I feel hopeful that there are some decent options to keep the aircav off your back.

[Fab]

Well from what we saw, the flak cannon looks, if not powerful, at least extremely disturbing for pilots, so one or two max should be able to repel any small group of aircrafts

[Kalbuth]

Last time I checked an Apache, Hind, AH6, etc all dominate infantry 1 on 1...that's kind of the POINT is that it's no longer infantry vs infantry. Don't bring a sniper rifle to an aircraft fight. Don't bring a knife to a tank fight. Stop trying to be a 1 man army. If you want to snipe you better have someone watching your back. Even AV/AA infantry vs aircraft 1 on 1 shouldn't win easily, if at all. If you make it where anyone can take anything 1 on 1...then what's the point of the vehicle? There's going to be HUNDREDS of people on each side. Vehicles will be utterly useless if they nerf them to be easily killed 1 on 1.

1) we are playing a game, in a futuristic settings, where dev NEVER stated they aimed at realism. RL comparisons should be disregarded from the get go. Gameplay is far more important.
2) just so you apply your logic to yourself :
Stop trying to be a 1 man armyAssault aircrafts are operated by a single man.

The last thing we need is BF-style flying tanks able to hover on infantry with impunity and laugh at their so called AA weapon while spouting flares, and mowing the squishies down. The saving grace of BF3 in this matter is the laser marker / Maverick combo, giving a counter to infantry.
Being infantry shouldn't mean you're immediate meat of aircraft. Being infantry with the wrong gear may mean you are.

[ODonnell]

The care bear is strong in this thread.

[yuxin]

As long as you don't present yourself as a valuable target. Compared to tanks and other aircrafts, infantry is on a fairly low priority for pilots. Here are a few things I would avoid:
1. Staying too close to a tank
How I get the most random infantry kills in BF3 as a fighter/chopper pilot. Rockets splash, guns spray, staying next to a tank will get you hurt. If you want to repair, wait until the aircraft passes or jump in the tank as a gunner to avoid the barrage.
2. Getting spotted
You can't prevent this, but you can lower the chances by staying away from open areas
3. Lack of squad tactical spacing
If you are in a clump with 2-3 of your buddies, you are suddenly worth as much as a tank. (tactically or game point value)
4. Engaging aircraft ineffectively
If you shoot at the aircraft without hurting him, you will piss him off and he will come back. As far as I know, machine guns are not effective against air in PS2.

TL;DR: Keep your head down and you will be fine.

[Ghoest9]

2. Getting spotted
You can't prevent this, but you can lower the chances by staying away from open areas



Umm this is the entire issue. It really doesnt matter where you are and thats the problem.

Crouching next to a rock or hiding in a bush , as opposed to say sunbathing in an open desert,does pretty much nothing in PS1 to keep you from being spotted.

[TheSaltySeagull]

This is going to be hilarious when the game goes live.

Agreed I look forward to seeing all the wannabe elite pilots crashing into cactus and cliff walls because flying in PS2 is actually difficult. I can already see the "wahhhh flying is too hard" threads.

[Exmortius]

the flying mechanics are better so i would assume pilots will be far more accurate in delivering ordinance upon little grunts. i would expect the opposite. in every game air dominates. ps1, bf3, etc....it'll be no different in ps2. planes just move too fast and are just hella accurate. AV will be a necessary squad guy in a group to survive and push forward.

[chanic]

After pondering the thread title, I've realized that death by bland typefont attack is a terribly unexciting way to die.

[AThreatToYou]

TR had the only weapon with a super-flexible effective anti-aircraft ability on the common grunt. Striker, oh how I love you so...
There were other weapons, but they are a little too specialized.

In PS1, I agree, Aircraft were waaaay too effective against infantry. I'd like for a trooper in the open to be meat, of course, but aircraft shouldn't have enough ammo/firepower/anything to reliably hunt infantry if they don't specialize for it.

[Karrade]

If they take Anti Infantry weapons, and catch me in the open, I don't mind dying to them at all. In PS1 I use a striker. If I have cover, then unless I am sat on my own, the aircraft can't sit there and hover on its own, else its dead in a larger fight, any good pilot knows it. - Hopefully it'll be the same in PS2.

If an AV reaver spots me in PS1, and I have AV and cover like I should have, I get them a lot more often than they get me. I actually welcome seeing a reaver on the field :), any vehicle at mid/long range is fun for my usual infantry set up. It's only when they catch me unawares, in the open, or alone that I am in trouble.

Plus I don't think the aircraft can hover as much in PS2, so they are strafing runs more or less, with a bit of limited hover if what has been said in the videos can be taken as literal.

-edit
Just read a few people saying the striker vs reaver didn't use to serve them well. Really it does, I've just been using it for several days again. If a reaver comes across your front line and it sits there long enough to kill one infantry man, who is intentionally using cover, its already dead most of the time as it won't get out fast enough vs other AV or AA. Unless its smart and swoops in to catch someone in the open (or uses range to hit someone on the move), this is the time its dangerous, not soloing in on one specific infantry guy.

Catching someone off guard is no different to a trooper blindsiding another trooper, and getting the jump on him, or a tank rolling up behind something, all happen. In a straight 1 on 1 fight, with squads i.e you see the reaver coming, you get in cover, put up the striker and can usually take it out. You move of course around the cover :)

[Ale]

Nerf all aircraft until they are all hydrogen airships used only for sight seeing tours.

If you enter an aircraft you should automatically be given a death as an entry fee, and then be forced to ride along at the whim of the autopilot, past landmarks and monuments, until such a time as a lone infantry man feels like his tan is being compromised by your blocking of the sun, at which time he can dispatch you with an languidly aimed hipfire burst.

[Sephirex]

Nerf all aircraft until they are all hydrogen airships used only for sight seeing tours.

If you enter an aircraft you shold automatically be given a death as enter entry fee, and then be forced to ride along at the whim of the autopilot, past landmarks and monuments, until such a time as a lone infantry man feels like his tan is being compromised by your blocking of the sun, at which time he can dispatch you with an languidly aimed hipfire burst.

Throw in a pack of peanuts and you got a deal.

[SztEltviz]

Last time I checked an Apache, Hind, AH6, etc all dominate infantry 1 on 1...that's kind of the POINT is that it's no longer infantry vs infantry. Don't bring a sniper rifle to an aircraft fight. Don't bring a knife to a tank fight. Stop trying to be a 1 man army. If you want to snipe you better have someone watching your back. Even AV/AA infantry vs aircraft 1 on 1 shouldn't win easily, if at all. If you make it where anyone can take anything 1 on 1...then what's the point of the vehicle? There's going to be HUNDREDS of people on each side. Vehicles will be utterly useless if they nerf them to be easily killed 1 on 1.

All of those copters are two man copters. Apache costs 18 mill usd, Stinger costs 38000 usd, apache 470 times more expensive and Stinger vs soviet copters in Afganistan 80% kill rate. You don't jump from a copter. wikipedia rulz.

[maradine]

You don't jump from a copter.

Actually, the Russians have a thing for helo ejection seats. You just don't really want to get back in afterwards, seeing as all the blades have been explosively shed from the mast.

[Synapse]

Should infantry with only knives be safer from guns in PS2?

Remove guns I'm tired of dying before I get into knife and sword range!

[mirwalk]

2) just so you apply your logic to yourself :
Assault aircrafts are operated by a single man.

The last thing we need is BF-style flying tanks able to hover on infantry with impunity and laugh at their so called AA weapon while spouting flares, and mowing the squishies down. The saving grace of BF3 in this matter is the laser marker / Maverick combo, giving a counter to infantry.
Being infantry shouldn't mean you're immediate meat of aircraft. Being infantry with the wrong gear may mean you are.

This

[SKYeXile]

Indeed, the wannabe's will be bad, just like they were in PS1. The better gamers will dominate with whatever they use, and it looks like aircraft are going to be very powerful in the right hands.

If you've watched Montez fly in the streams then you already know this is true.

I hear you were pretty good at planetside, you're also good at every other game you play, logic tells me that you will SUCK, HARD! in Planetside 2....baddie.

[Kalbuth]

Actually, the Russians have a thing for helo ejection seats. You just don't really want to get back in afterwards, seeing as all the blades have been explosively shed from the mast.

The only choppers having this feature are actually Kamov ones, and unfortunately haven't been chosen by russian army which preferred mi28 over ka50. So even russians don't eject from their chopper (apart from 4 odd ka crew which are still in use)