Best / Worst - Rate Weapons and Vehicles

[Neurotoxin]

ES gear isn't all equivalent. Some items are decidedly better than others, in functionality or damage output or even usability. Instead of continuing to have debates like the MCG / JH / Lasher one that we've got going.

Don't spend too much time debating other people's ratings, instead provide your own ratings and

Obviously this is all a matter of personal preference. Here's a few examples:

Deliverer Variants:
#1 - Thunderer - Powerful, only needs 3 to operate, great range and accuracy.
#2 - Raider - Able to reliably hit aircraft, high RoF helps to compensate for rough accuracy-ruining terrain, able to spot and attack more targets, and gives all passengers something to do in transit.
#3 - Aurora - Powerful but poor accuracy, secondary fire can spray an area causing heavy damage, only needs 3 to operate.

AI MAX:
#1 - Quasar - Scales walls, great for towers top-floor base objectives, can traverse underwater safely, instant AV mode adds versatility
#2 - Scattercannon - Rapidly kills infantry so new targets can be acquired rapidly, shield helps improve durability
#3 - Dual Cycler - linked dual fire reduces close-range accuracy, bolt-down can be very hazardous

Assault Buggy:
Tied #1 - Thresher - Powerful anti-infantry weapon, fastest AB of the three, hovercraft strafing and floating over water. Exceptional LLU transport (but vulnerable to aircraft).
Tied #1 - Marauder - Reliably hit aircraft (machinegun), able to transport two additional passengers instead of just one, arcing mortar shot gets over walls and cover effectively.
#3 - Enforcer - Powerful straight-firing rockets, only requires 2 to operate, able to do fair damage against distant vehicles



Remember, don't argue and debate too much, instead post your listings. I doubt everyone agrees with me on my ratings, but this isn't about me, its about what everyone thinks of the stuff. Debating is pointless now anyway, nothing is gonna be changed in PS1 any time soon except maybe the monthly subscription will go down.

[Leet]

HA
1. Jackhammer - Derp
2. MCG - Versatility
3. Lasher - Still needs slight tweaking but can do alright if used as a JH.

Rifle
1. Pulsar - Great weapon after the buff.
2. Gauss - Has been a great weapon for a while. First place is interchangeable between the Pulsar and Gauss.
3. Cycler - Is inferior to the Gauss and Pulsar in every way. Terrible weapon.

AV
1. Lancer - Solid
2. Phoneix - Versatile
3. Striker - Just bad.

AI Max
1. Scat - A jackhammer with range customization welded onto a Max unit, need I say more?
2. DC - It's a beast with the overdrive.
3. Quasar - Jumpjets can make it good if you can get a good vertical 'warp' going.

AV Max
1. Comet - Good damage + jumpjets make it a beast
2. Pounder - Tempted to put Falcon above it but its overdrive help a lot. Without them it's pretty situational and vulnerable.
3. Falcon - Can't quite dish out insane amounts of damage like a Pounder can versus vehicles. Still solid overall.

AA Max
1. Starfire - Easily the best against aircraft. Its jumpjets make it the king of AA Max's. If you use trees and other things to stand on, you're nearly impossible to kill 1v1 unless you're mentally handicapped.
2. Burster - Situational, but if you find a good spot you can absolutely decimate aircraft. Capacitors add an extra umph if you can't lockdown.
3. Sparrow - Pretty bad compared to the other AA Max's. I think the devs purposely made it junk to try and trick people into thinking they weren't biased towards NC

Vehicles
1. Magrider - Direct LOS shooting; great AA capabilities due to that.
- Can also avoid bridge choke points
2. Vanguard - Hits hard, isn't fat, and doesn't require a third gunner.
3. Prowler - Sports all of the Vanguard's qualities, even the negative ones.

Vehicles
1.Thunderer - Beast
2. Raider - Pretty good; requires 4 gunners
3. Aurora - Amazing at camping doors

Vehicles
1. Maurader - Good overall, its chaingun helps it have some sort of AA.
2. Enforcer - Heavy damage
3. Thresher - Good, its slow projectile speed is its biggest disadvantage.

[Wahooo]

HA
1. Jackhammer - Derp
2. MCG - Versatility
3. Lasher - Still needs slight tweaking but can do alright if used as a JH.

Rifle
1. Pulsar - Great weapon after the buff.
2. Gauss - Has been a great weapon for a while. First place is interchangeable between the Pulsar and Gauss.
3. Cycler - Is inferior to the Gauss and Pulsar in every way. Terrible weapon.

AV
1. Lancer - Solid
2. Phoneix - Versatile
3. Striker - Just bad.

AI Max
1. Scat - A jackhammer with range customization welded onto a Max unit, need I say more?
2. DC - It's a beast with the overdrive.
3. Quasar - Jumpjets can make it good if you can get a good vertical 'warp' going.

AV Max
1. Comet - Good damage + jumpjets make it a beast
2. Pounder - Tempted to put Falcon above it but its overdrive help a lot. Without them it's pretty situational and vulnerable.
3. Falcon - Can't quite dish out insane amounts of damage like a Pounder can versus vehicles. Still solid overall.

AA Max
1. Starfire - Easily the best against aircraft. Its jumpjets make it the king of AA Max's. If you use trees and other things to stand on, you're nearly impossible to kill 1v1 unless you're mentally handicapped.
2. Burster - Situational, but if you find a good spot you can absolutely decimate aircraft. Capacitors add an extra umph if you can't lockdown.
3. Sparrow - Pretty bad compared to the other AA Max's. I think the devs purposely made it junk to try and trick people into thinking they weren't biased towards NC

Vehicles
1. Magrider - Direct LOS shooting; great AA capabilities due to that.
- Can also avoid bridge choke points
2. Vanguard - Hits hard, isn't fat, and doesn't require a third gunner.
3. Prowler - Sports all of the Vanguard's qualities, even the negative ones.

Vehicles
1.Thunderer - Beast
2. Raider - Pretty good; requires 4 gunners
3. Aurora - Amazing at camping doors

Vehicles
1. Maurader - Good overall, its chaingun helps it have some sort of AA.
2. Enforcer - Heavy damage
3. Thresher - Good, its slow projectile speed is its biggest disadvantage.

I second this. I agree with the rankings mostly and the comments, save for some situational differences.

AV maxes are tough due to their variables. Indoors on offense vs AI and max v. max pounder loses. BD defense and outdoors Pounder wins. Falcon is pretty mid-range in all situations and Comet is most versatile.

With the pops back up I've fallen back in love with the Burster. When the pops were weak it was just a death trap everywhere and the sparrow was great but with fights the size they are supposed to be hard not to sparrow is annoying, skilfires versatility makes it good and with CY defense the burster is awesome. As long as pheonixes are kept away.

Same with the defense on AI maxes DC is beast when able to lock down in a hallway and Quasar is silly when you can push a tower top down with several. But those two just flip flop, can't move a scat from top spot.

I wouldn't call the striker "just bad" in zerg numbers it can be fun but the range and breaking LOS by trees makes it meh.
Why anyone would use a suckler over a pwnisher boggles my mind.

[robocpf1]

Rifle
1. Pulsar - After the CoF balance pass, I prefer this in most scenarios.
2. Gauss - At long range or at altitude, like in the caves, is the only place I prefer this over the Pulsar.
[PUNISHER GOES HERE, UNDERRATED WEAPON, AMAZING IN THE RIGHT HANDS.]
3. Cycler - Don't like this at all, feels inferior.

AV
1. Lancer - No lock-on notifications, takes some getting used to but fastest damage output of the three.
2. Phoenix - Can fire in non-conventional patters, around doors, out of buildings, etc
3. Striker - Better for new players but once you've got the firing down there's no reason not to switch to a lancer. However, best if you have large numbers outside in an open area, like Cyssor.

Main Battle Tanks
1. Magrider - Direct LOS shooting; great AA capabilities due to that.
- Can also avoid bridge choke points
2. Vanguard - Hits hard, loads of armor
3. Prowler - Sports all of the Vanguard's qualities but is a huge target and requires a second gunner for AA.

Transports
1.Thunderer - One-shot-kills on infantry and really good damage on vehicles. And you get two of the guns!
2. Raider - Requires 4 gunners and loads of coordination but can shred any target with ease.
3. Aurora - Only really good against infantry - but is best of the three against infantry. Against air and ground vehicles it is inferior.

Buggy
1. Thresher - Hovers, has highest speed, best maneuverability, good damage once you learn how to shoot.
2. Enforcer - Heavy damage against everything, beefy armor, I prefer this buggy. It's really the only one that's effective in columns.
3. Marauder - Main gun just doesn't feel like it does enough damage. It's just an upgraded Harasser, really. Great for clearing out CE and being a pest but otherwise I'd choose the other two.

[robocpf1]

In defense of the Aurora. I think it does one job really well, infantry suppression. To me putting the Raider ahead of it is like saying the Lasher is really good.. If you know how to shoot it. Aurora is like the MCG it just works no training wheels required.

Have to disagree, the Raider can also kill vehicles with it's four direct-fire guns. The Aurora's weird lob-shot fires very slowly and doesn't do much per shot, against vehicles.

I put the Aurora last, as did the poster above me (I think) because for being the transport of the faction based on Versatility...it's really not that versatile. Close-to-medium range infantry farm machine it may be, but it's not on par with the Thunderer and Raider for versatility.

[MasterCalaelen]

Pistols

1. Repeater
2. Scat-Pistol
3. Beamer

HA
1. Jackhammer
2. MCG
3. Lasher

Rifle
1. Gauss
1. Pulsar
2. Cycler

Pulsar and Gauss share the first position, I find them both equally good.

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker

AI Max
1. Scattercannon
2. Quasar
3. Dual-Cycler

AV Max
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon

AA Max
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow

Vehicles
1. Vanguard
2. Prowler
3. Magrider

Vehicles
1.Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora

Vehicles
1. Enforcer
2. Marauder
3. Thresher

[MCYRook]

Pistols
1. Repeater
2. Scat-Pistol
3. Beamer
Repeater wins by far. Not that it matters tho, I mean - pistols!

HA
1. MCG
2. Jackhammer
3. Lasher
JH best for soloing, although very restrictive niche. MCG is super-versatile, and in groups completely outperforms the JH. Lasher is kinda similar, but just wonky. :-/

Rifle
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler
Gauss used to be the shiz, but since the Pulsar buff I find the Pulsar a tiny bit better. Cycler still suffers from the Rexo buff, after all these years. Poor Cycler. :( (Note to TR: And yet, Cycer > MCG outdoors nonetheless.)

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker
Lancer is pure sex and wins hands down. Phoenix has piss poor DPS, but can circumvent cover, utterly useless against air, but slaughters Maxes... weird thing. Striker is kinda meh, good as poor man's AA, but gets outperformed at AV and anti-Max by the other two.

AI Max
1. Scattercannon
1. Quasar
1. Dual-Cycler
I find them all awesome. Scatter is obviously still king of inyourfaceness. DC on Overdrive is on par with the Scatter now, except OD isn't always on (but it has range). Quasar has jumpjets, so yeah - the possibilities!

AV Max
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon
Comet best anti-Max Max (which IMO is the most important purpose of AV Maxes). Pounder better vs vehicles and for spamming. Falcon pretty much allround-Max, but isn't actually good at anything.

AA Max
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow
Personally like using the Burster the most (note: You CAN hit Libs at flight ceiling with it, easily), but Starfire wins purely because thanks to jumpets it can take Reavers head-on no problem (also: getting to annoying places). Sparrow? Fuck off. Fucking piece of crap. Can kill high-flying Libs and is useful at bridge battles, and everyone knows THAT wins battles, right? :rolleyes:

Vehicles
1. Vanguard
1. Prowler
1. Magrider
They're all great IMO. Vanguard is just a good, proper tank. Prowler is harder to keep alive, but has BEASTLY damage output even with just the main gunner. Maggie is best for AV and can fend off air effectively, not as hot vs infantry, and trades armor for mobility.

Vehicles
1. Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora
Thundy is sooo much better than the other two. Raider is just a less efficient Deli, and Aurora has exactly one selling point: camping doors like no tomorrow.

Vehicles
1. Enforcer
2. Marauder
3. Thresher
Enfo just kills stuff, even after the one-shot nerf (and looks awesome while doing it). Thresher is fun as hell to drive, but just doesn't kill stuff. Marauder is inbetween.

[Kalbuth]

Pistols
1. Repeater
2. Beamer
3. Scat-pistol
Beamer isn't that bad since a few years now

HA
1. MCG
2. Jackhammer
3. Lasher
MCG ability to use X-fire effectively makes it unmatched.

Rifle
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler
Pulsar has been on top for years, imho. It was already the best ESMA for strafe-fighting years ago. Apparently there has been a recent upgrade? Not heard of the recent changes (recent == less than 4 years old, for me :) )

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker
Like many VS weapon, Lancer stacks ideally and make a group of lancer an incredible DPS machine. Penix, though, is ideal indoor and vs MAX. I don't think I have more than 1 fav with deci in it on my NC toon.
No comment on Stryker. I already feel the "beep beep beep" dizzyness coming back just thinking about this thing.

AI Max
1. Scattercannon
1. Quasar
1. Dual-Cycler
No clue, never been good enough in a AI MAX

AV Max
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon
Jumpjet, end of story. Pounder raw damage is exhilerating (sp?), until you realise you're locked down and have a lancer in you ass or a penix spamming you

AA Max
1. Burster
2. Starfire
3. Sparrow
I've put my personnal "fun to use" preference here. The SF is probably technically better, though the burster is really, really a beast. Raw DPS without warning == win. A SF, and even more a Sparrow, will often make the ennemy flee. A burster will kill him.

Tanks
1. Magrider
2. Prowler
3. Vanguard
Magrider winning hands down, probably because it's the one I'm by far the most used to drive, because water is your friend, because you shoot straight.... well, many reasons. Prowler seconds (and there everyone gets "WTF??"), mainly because I've never been able to like the VG for some strange reason, I can't put my finger on it.... Prowler main gun DPS is insane, the killer for this baby is its agility (or total lack of) and engine power. Pain to drive, accelerates like an old bitch after a night of work, gets stopped by any bump in the terrain. But the 2 100mm are awesome.

Deli variants
1. Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora
Thunderer. The magrider on steroids, though I find it harder to reliably hit than maggy main gun.

Buggies
1. Thresher
2. Enforcer
3. Marauder
I'm mainly a driver, so Thresher 1st. You go fast, you strafe, you jump everywhere. Fun.
Enfo does the job.
Marauder, well.... 3 crew :(

[Figment]

I would suggest complementing the lists with Common Pool items, because then it's even clearer if something is lacking.

[cryosin]

HA
1 - Jackhammer: Average players face roll, great players are unstoppable.
2 - MCG: Not too far behind the JH, but close quarters JH is overall better.
3 - Lasher: I've said it before and i'll say it again, it's the best indoor weapon for VS but far worse than the other three.

AV
1 - Phoenix: Hiding behind a tree and shooting a powerful rocket... ya its balanced... or something.
2 - Lancer: Very powerful in skilled hands. The range really makes this weapon shine.
3 - Striker: It's very good, but not as good as the other two. Still a very potent weapon though.

Tanks
1 - Magrider: Even though it's terrible against infantry, the Magrider is simply a powerhouse when piloted by skilled players.
2 - Prowler: Very close to the Mag. A fully manned prowler is a force to be reckoned with.
3 - Vanguard: Although the vanguard just mows down infantry, it doesn't feel as intimidating as the other two. Still a great tank though.

AV MAX
1 - VS Comet MAX: King of the AV MAX's. You moon bounce around, lay dots on foes and 4 shot other MAX's. My fav. MAX over-all.
2 - TR Pounder: Nothing holds a corridor down like a pounder MAX. I've seen these decimate vehicles as well.
3 - NC Rocket MAX: An NC weapon that requires aiming and skill? This cannot be! This MAX is great, but since NC are so used to running around ka-skilling everything in sight, actually aiming and leading in with rockets is far too hard for them.

AI MAX
1 - Ka-skill max(Scatmax): You walk into a room and press your mouse 1 button and everything dies. I guess that's balanced, or something.
2 - TR Dual Chainguns MAX: Solid AI MAX. Great ROF and can easily land a few kills.
3 - VS Quasar MAX: Okay, so... the TTK on this MAX is so bad that its hard to believe its an AI MAX. It can fly, except your COF(cone of fire) is all over the place when doing so. Don't get me wrong, its still a super scary AI MAX, but its definitely not as powerful as the other two.

Medium Assault
- I actually feel thie Medium assaults are very well balanced. I love fighting on Oshur, since it feels as if I'm playing a more balanced game. Too bad the other empire's don't like abandoning their overpowered HA's.
1 - Pulsar: I've grown to love it. Its got a nice 5 shot burst before its COF gets too bad and you can use it on the move very well. Great medium range/assault weapon.
2 - Cycler: Its like a mini-mini chain gun! You just run like a madman and spray. Basically an overpowered suppressor if you ask me. I love the reload sound too for some reason.
3 - Gauss Rifle: When crouched, the gauss rifle just melts people. However it's not the best on the move weapon. It still feels very finely tuned with the other HA's though. I think the Gauss rifle is the worst close up, but the best far away.

Medium Assaults are really down to the wire. They can all be interchangeable too depending on the situation.

[Metalsheep]

Why anyone would use a suckler over a pwnisher boggles my mind.

While the Cycler is horrible vs other MA, it does more damage, faster than the Pwnisher. It also carries more ammo. When burst fired, it will beat the Pwnisher handily. But agains the other MA at range its pretty crap.

However, the Cycler has the about the same rate of fire as an MCG, and does the same bullet damage per hit as an MCG, though its CoF blooms wider. In CQB, the Cycler is actually a fearsome weapon most dismiss due to its shoddy ranged performance. Three days ago i rolled in a NC tower outside Ghannon on Hossin, had my Cycler cause i was zerging. I picked up 8 kills in a row without losing momentum pushing up the stairs to the CC against the Jackhammer wielding NC. Ran myself out of ammo and died. I honestly amazed myself that the Cycler got me through that.

Also:

HA
1: MCG
2 Jackhammer
3 Current Lasher

MA
1 Pulsar
2 Gauss
3 Cycler

AV
1 Lancer
2 Phoenix
3 Striker

AV MAX
1 Pounder
2 Comet
3 Falcon

AI MAX
1 Scat-MAX
2 DC (#1 if locked down)
3 Quasar

AA MAX
1 Starfire
2 Burster
3 Sparrow

Tank
1 Prowler (when fully manned)
2 Vanguard
3 Magrider

Buggy
1 Marauder (If fully manned)
2 Enforcer
3 Thresher

Deliverers
1 Raider (when fully manned)
2 Thunderer
3 Aurora

BFR
1 Peregrine (Provided Doom Cannon is equipped)
2 Colossus
3 Aphelion

[Accuser]

Tanks:
Magrider
Prowler
Vanguard
This is probably a biased list. The Magrider is spectacular at what it does: killing enemy vehicles (and aircraft). If that's your measure of a tank, then the Mag wins hands down. However, a Prowler does well against vehicles and infantry AND is best able to breach a courtyard so that friendlies can push in. So I could see it tying for first if you valued this as well. The Vanguard just isn't the best on either front.

AI Max
Dual-Cycler / Scatmax
Quasar
TR and NC tie for first and really, each is great at its own role (though the Quasar's TTK is far too low). A locked-down Dual-Cycler probably has the lowest TTK of anything in the game and is glorious on defense, probably my favorite to use. If an enemy pokes his head around a corner to look, that head is coming off.
Scatmax is best for attacking indoors, obviously.
And with the Quasar... you're defending safely from the cover of the base wall, until suddenly you have a squad of VS Maxes jumping on your face. They're great for claiming a courtyard, but the long TTK makes them SUCK indoors... which is exactly where the VS had the most problems in PS1.

[Effective]

Pistols

1. Repeater
2. Scat-Pistol
3. Beamer

HA
1. Jackhammer
2. Lasher
3. MCG - Mostly because for what HA is meant for the MCG suffers the most in. If the enemy lasher/JH doesn't miss, you can be the best player with the MCG in the world and you will still die.

Rifle
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker

AI Max
1. Scattercannon
2. Quasar
3. Dual-Cycler

AV Max
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon

AA Max
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow

Vehicles
1. Magrider
2. Vanguard
3. Prowler

Vehicles
1.Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora

Vehicles
1. Thresher
2. Marauder
3. Enforcer

[infy]

Pistols

1. Repeater
2. Scat-Pistol ( LOW RESO )
3. Beamer

HA
1. Jackhammer ( LOW RESO )
2. Lasher ( LOW RESO )
3. MCG

Rifle
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler

AV
1. Phoenix
2. Lancer
3. Striker

AI Max
1. Quasar
2. Scatter
3. Dual-Cycler

AV Max
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon

AA Max
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow

Vehicles
1. Magrider
2. Vanguard
3. Prowler

Vehicles
1.Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora

Vehicles
1. Thresher
2. Marauder
3. Enforcer


If it weren't for playing on low reso with the two HAs i would put MCG on top for sure... Still it's all clientside and jh/lasher actually seems more dependant than MCG in low reso..

Sure MCG tears in high reso, but you can gib people way faster with lasher/jh in lower..

fck my enligsh btw, russian kid.

[jakaul]

AI MAX
Scat
Falcon
Quasar
DC (above quasar with overdrive active)

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

HA
1a. MCG
1b. JH
3. Lasher

MA
1. Pulsar
2. Gauss
3. Cycler

AV
1. Lancer
2. Phoenix
3. Striker

Tank
1. Vanguard
2. Prowler
3. Magrider

Transports
1. Thunderer
2. Raider
3. Aurora

Buggy
1. Enforcer
2. Thresher
3. Marauder

AI MAX
1. Scatt (its just that much better)
2.
3. Quasar/DC

AA MAX
1. Starfire
2. Burster
3. Sparrow

AV MAX
1. Comet
2. Pounder
3. Falcon


NC - 20½
VS - 17½
TR - 15

[jakaul]

In defense of the Quasar. This max is best for SURPRISE you're dead fun times.

For example;

3 enemy drop on your tower. You feel vulnerable. Their SOP: boomer stairs, decis at ready. If you a scatmax or cycler, going up those stairs is near suicidal.

Quasar.. we fly high so high BAAALLIN. You don't go up stairs, 1) go outside, 2) fly to the top, 3) shoot 'em in the back like a boss!

One of them will have audio alert...

[Kouza]

HA
1. Jackhammer - Derp
2. MCG - Versatility
3. Lasher - Still needs slight tweaking but can do alright if used as a JH.

Rifle
1. Pulsar - Great weapon after the buff.
2. Gauss - Has been a great weapon for a while. First place is interchangeable between the Pulsar and Gauss.
3. Cycler - Is inferior to the Gauss and Pulsar in every way. Terrible weapon.

AV
1. Lancer - Solid
2. Phoneix - Versatile
3. Striker - Just bad.

AI Max
1. Scat - A jackhammer with range customization welded onto a Max unit, need I say more?
2. Quasar - Jumpjets can make it good if you can get a good vertical 'warp' going.
3. DC - It's a beast with the overdrive. Incapable of killing otherwise :P


AV Max
1. Comet - Good damage + jumpjets make it a beast
2. Pounder - Tempted to put Falcon above it but its overdrive help a lot. Without them it's pretty situational and vulnerable.
3. Falcon - Can't quite dish out insane amounts of damage like a Pounder can versus vehicles. Still solid overall.

This is close between two and three however, it must be noted that the arc makes the pounder a hard outdoor AV max (When has any one used a pounder outside? :P, and that if a OPFOR AI max puts him self AGAINST the TR max when the duel begins the TR max will kill its self before he kills the OPFOR. (As long as the opfor actually shoots him a couple times)

AA Max
1. Starfire - Easily the best against aircraft. Its jumpjets make it the king of AA Max's. If you use trees and other things to stand on, you're nearly impossible to kill 1v1 unless you're mentally handicapped.
2. Burster - Situational, but if you find a good spot you can absolutely decimate aircraft. Capacitors add an extra umph if you can't lockdown.
3. Sparrow - Pretty bad compared to the other AA Max's. I think the devs purposely made it junk to try and trick people into thinking they weren't biased towards NC

These are kind of back and forward I actually feel good balance here. Each is good in its own respect, Sparrow is weaker because it will chase you two fucking grid spaces.

Vehicles
1. Magrider - Direct LOS shooting; great AA capabilities due to that.
- Can also avoid bridge choke points
2. Vanguard - Hits hard, isn't fat, and doesn't require a third gunner.
3. Prowler - Sports all of the Vanguard's qualities, even the negative ones.

Prowler is best 1 v 1 However, it has no AA capability unless you put in a chaingun, which then creates the numbers issues ill put down below (10 tanks vs 15)

Vehicles
1.Thunderer - Beast
2. Aurora - Amazing at camping doors
3. Raider

Changed this for one reason, YES the Raider will win every time 1 v 1 with an Aurora but, something if being forgotten here. A platoon of Raiders = 6 Raiders... A platoon of Auroras= 10 Auroras

Vehicles
1. Maurader - Good overall, its chaingun helps it have some sort of AA.
2. Enforcer - Heavy damage
3. Thresher - Good, its slow projectile speed is its biggest disadvantage.
Same as above. A platoon of Enforcers of Threshers is 15 A platoon of Mauraders... 10



This one seemed closest to correct for me. Edited red to show what I changed.

Will also mention that though I play TR Main, this is from playing all Empires.

MAXES: TR maxes would be great if no one had special abilities but, VS maxes can jump to avoid Decis and NC maxes have a fucking shield to absorb an extra.

NC AA Max can flip on shield to counter a whole barrage of Reaver Rockets.

VS Max can jump to avoid reaver rockets.

TR Max is exceptionally good at taking reaver rockets like a bitch.

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Vehicles, I actually feel that on a 1 to 1 Basis TR vehicles are the BEST... However, the let down is that this Buff is underdone when you take the fact that 10 Prowlers, cannot defeat 15 Magriders, or Vannies, and 6 Raiders SURELY are not defeating 10 Auroras or Thunderers.

[Graywolves]

6 Raiders SURELY are not defeating 10 Auroras or Thunderers.

This is something I really want to try now.

[MCYRook]

NC AA Max can flip on shield to counter a whole barrage of Reaver Rockets.
Oooh, look who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about! :rolleyes:

[Kalbuth]

This one seemed closest to correct for me. Edited red to show what I changed.

Will also mention that though I play TR Main, this is from playing all Empires.

MAXES: TR maxes would be great if no one had special abilities but, VS maxes can jump to avoid Decis and NC maxes have a fucking shield to absorb an extra.

NC AA Max can flip on shield to counter a whole barrage of Reaver Rockets.

VS Max can jump to avoid reaver rockets.

TR Max is exceptionally good at taking reaver rockets like a bitch.

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Vehicles, I actually feel that on a 1 to 1 Basis TR vehicles are the BEST... However, the let down is that this Buff is underdone when you take the fact that 10 Prowlers, cannot defeat 15 Magriders, or Vannies, and 6 Raiders SURELY are not defeating 10 Auroras or Thunderers.

If you count on tank to do the AA job, you're doing it wrong. At least in terms of tanks, count 15 Prowlers vs 15 VG, the AA cover should be done separately (even for mags, counting on them to do the AA job would be silly, even though on a 1vs1 basis, they are by far the best suited to resist a reaver). The Prowler doesn't need the 2nd gunner to outdamage the other 2 tanks.

For buggies and ES-Delis, though, unfortunately yes, TR get the lower end of the business because of this number thing.

[Kouza]

Oooh, look who doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about! :rolleyes:

Its not to say a reaver cannot easily kill a NC AA max... LOL... Let me rephrase, an entire barrage of Rocket missiles will kill a max.... An Entire barrage will severely inhibit a NC max however, if the NC max flips his shield until it absorbs and runs out, then starts shooting the Reaver will have to reload, allowing the Max to take care of a newer Fly Boy Easily.

EDIT: Went to do a field test with this, you were right a perfect hit with ALL ROCKETS, will kill a NC max with shields. That being said, One miss will cause a reload, and death. Still majorly unfavorable if your TR IMO. However, I will admit I was wrong on my statement.

Kalbuth: Yes the most common sense thing to do when you are running a Prowler Team is to pull a SG to protect it.. Me and the Original Poster were talking about the Tanks Ability to kill aircraft and protect ITSELF.

My argument is that the Prowler is the Best 1 v 1 Tank in the game if you land all your shots IMO that would be my pick.

HOWEVER: When to fully equip a Prowler compared to the other two you out pop your self 1.5 to 1... I know I know what a small number.... So let me compare it this way.

1.5 to 1
3 to 2
6 to 4
15 to 10
150 to 100
300 to 200

Suddenly you realize winning 1 v 1 fights is not to your advantage any longer.

[Kalbuth]

Point being : DO NOT CREW YOUR PROWLERS WITH 3 PEOPLE. Why do you do it?
Your calculations are theorical based on a scenario which shouldn't happen.
Don't crew your prowlers with 3, but 2 people, redo your calculation, realise the 2 crew Prowler still outdammage any other tank, and you have a winner, bare the shitty handling of the beast which simply kills him (and this is why I rate magrider higher)

Stop throwing at me your 3 vs 2 comparisons, they are meaningless in case of a prowler, because in 2 vs 2 scenario (without 2nd gunner), the prowler is still better. So use a real world scenario, ie 2 crew prowler, and redo the comparison.
They are true, though, when talking about TR ES buggy or ES Deli variant, for which the crew vs damage ratio is not favoring them at all, because these vehicles don't have enough damage when only crewed with 2 (or 3 for Deli variant comparison) people.

Saying you are theorically outdamaged per crew is meaningless if you have also a scenario where you outdamage others per crew. Use the correct scenario to your advantage. Ie : put 2 people in your tanks, AA protection with a true AA SG. Case solved.

[MCYRook]

See, I realize that subjective overall weapon ratings like we're doing here are sometimes down to preference and often hard to objectively justify. However, I'm pretty adamant that the Sparrow is a big steaming pile of crap compared to both Burster and Starfire, and anyone who thinks otherwise really doesn't know what he's talking about. Can't put it any friendlier way. So if someone does go as far as to make a statement that's just factually wrong, I tend to rather rudely point my finger at that. Sorry for that.

Went to do a field test with this, you were right a perfect hit with ALL ROCKETS, will kill a NC max with shields. That being said, One miss will cause a reload, and death.
Reload and death? How about switch to chainguns, finish him off, and get away with still plenty of health because the Sparrow couldn't fire until his shields went dry and does piss poor DPS even after that?

(See, that's what I meant...)

Still majorly unfavorable if your TR IMO.
No doubt that a locked-down Burster is a sitting duck (which is why you don't lock down until you actually want to fire). But a Burster on lockdown or overdrive runs a pretty tight DPS race against a Reaver if both open up simultaneously. A Sparrow is just so far behind it's never even a contest, especially after the completely unnecessary 20% Reaver armor buff. If the Reaver gets the drop on them, both are dead meat. Only the Starfire gets to LOLjumpjet.

[Kouza]

Kalbuth- I challenge you to successfully protect a Prowler from a Reaver with just a Main Gun successfully on a normal Basis. It simply cannot be done the way a Vanny or a Magrider can do it... I`m Not arguing with you per-say, you`re holding up Apples to my Oranges. Why would I not put some sort of ability to protect myself to aircraft on my vehicle?

Rook- Actually after playing with it a bit i`m starting to see a little of what you are saying. I feel like the Burster is GREAT as long as you catch them off guard. The sparrow seems to be more of an Area Denial weapon.. I feel like if I was running sparrow I would have to attach to some armor to protect me. I would like to point out that alot of players are totally oblivious to what to do when I shoot at them with this thing though.

IMO: I think all the AA maxes would be just fine if they would take that fucking buff back off... No one man should have that much power in one vehicle. lol

[Nausicaa]

God reminded me of the old AI pounder that thing was a beast, remeber when burster flack hit all targets not just air -_-

I really Like NC AV Max, while its not the very best at taking out other maxes as the comet or dealing with vehicles like the pounder, its fantastic for coping with other threats like infantry and aircraft, kind of reminds me of the old AV Dual Cycler.

[Kalbuth]

Kalbuth- I challenge you to successfully protect a Prowler from a Reaver with just a Main Gun successfully on a normal Basis. It simply cannot be done the way a Vanny or a Magrider can do it... I`m Not arguing with you per-say, you`re holding up Apples to my Oranges. Why would I not put some sort of ability to protect myself to aircraft on my vehicle?

Because this is your tradeoff for having the largest DPS output of the 3 tanks, by far, while still holding big anti-infantry capability and more than decent enough armor to be a 1vs1 winner in a tank battle in nearly every scenario.
Ie : you cannot have the best in every category. Prowler weakness is aircraft self-defense.
But the counter to that ("bring SG with you") is so logical and efficient that imho it doesn't kill Prowler effectiveness, at all.
You want everything going your way, it's not happening. No tank is having everything for it.
Magrider weakness is infantry, VG is not being the best in any category.

Again, I prefer calculation done on a real situation, instead of focusing only on the weak point of your armor and acting like it would make your armor unusable.
If you find yourself in a situation with 1 gunner facing a reaver without any air cover, you failed somewhere, the ennemy outsmarted you, or you are in the process of retreating and soon back in your AA cover before you get killed.

[Wahooo]

No doubt that a locked-down Burster is a sitting duck (which is why you don't lock down until you actually want to fire). But a Burster on lockdown or overdrive runs a pretty tight DPS race against a Reaver if both open up simultaneously. A Sparrow is just so far behind it's never even a contest, especially after the completely unnecessary 20% Reaver armor buff. If the Reaver gets the drop on them, both are dead meat. Only the Starfire gets to LOLjumpjet.

Burster 1v1 on a reaver isn't even close anymore since the 20% armor buff, add cyssor bennie and amp station shields and you are lucky to get the reaver to half health before you die.

I find a bit interesting how the population numbers have drastically changed the balance of AA maxes. With battles back for the past two years that were fairly small and only a bit of armor running around the bases and a lot of stuff in the air the Burster was just no fun to play at all. Peenixes would snipe you anywhere in the CY and the moment you looked up to shoot at a max altitude lib you got a whole barrage of reaver rockets up the ass. During this time the Sparrow moving around could end up killing any plane that flew into the CY without their AB at full.

Now with the pops up, the distance from the CY infantry and aircav can be has moved out. What this has done is allowed the burster to be a bit safer and able to concentrate on aircraft more and mow down anyone that was used to flying in and strafing basewalls and flying ABing away again. The sparrow due to the lock on time is back to the role of scaring air away rather than killing it.

Skillfire seems pretty unchanged.

When it comes to ES MBTs Buggies and Deli-varients I guess hard numbers and what not comes down to (for me) what I would rather play in. Based on that as a gunner it is Mag>Vannie>Prowler for Deli Varients Thundy=Raider (if it is a squad filled raider on voice comms NOT randoms) >>>> Aurora. For buggies? Save for the time it takes me to get used to the timing and travel time for the Enforcer rockets I like them all pretty evenly. The extra person in the marauder seems like less of an issue than it is in the raider just because of the way they are used and pulled.

[Wahooo]

The Enforcer is one shot one kill with softies. Great fun for drive-by lulz.

Actually that was part of my point about getting used to the travel time and re-fire rate of the Enforcer. If you are bad like me then 1shot kills are useless when you miss... the Marauder and Thresher are a little easier to start farming infantry.

[MCYRook]

The Enforcer is one shot one kill with softies.
Not anymore. But it's still awesome.