View Full Version : Why I quit PS1
Buggsy
2012-07-07, 05:55 PM
I like playing support, cause playing frontal assault can get boring after a while.
My favorite unit in PS1 was the AMS. I liked scouting ahead, then setting up an AMS and defending it with mines and spitfires. While the CR5's were playing Rommel wannabe's I was out there setting up spawn points and actually directing the flow of the battle. Each player that spawned on my AMS was my little chess piece.
AMS kept getting OS'ed.
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I also liked playing anti-mine grenadier. I'd load up my rifle with EMP grenades (forgot the name of common rifle but it had a grenade launcher). When assaulting gates, usually the courtyard was full of mines, and I could simultaneously engage enemy infantry and take out mines with EMP grenades. It was a slow process but It still worked fine and I liked it.
Eventually everyone got CR and they just OS EMP the courtyard in every battle. So that playstyle was obsolete.
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I also liked using delaying tactics. My last memory of playing PS1:
I decided to guard a back door from an attack. I strategically placed one mine behind each tree, so if an enemy were to take cover behind a tree opposite of where I placed myself, they would step on a mine. Then I'd put spitfires up in a crossfire pattern on the other side of trees facing me. Took me 10 minutes to setup and plan. It wasn't a very lethal setup, it was designed to slow the enemy down from accessing the back door. I place myself into defensive position.
15 minutes later a truck full of 5 enemies pulls up, they all hop out and I start shooting at them. They all take cover behind a tree, I hear 2 mines go off and grin a little. Nobody gets killed, but that's not my goal, my goal is to slow them down. I keep taking potshots at them, and I hear some of my spitfire turrets go off, and they destroy a couple of my spitfires.
Still no enemies dead, but that's not my goal, my goal is to delay them. They could have flanked my position and killed me, since my setup was pretty much at a 90 degree angle in between the trees and the back door. That was my weakness.
I delay them for a good 90 seconds until an EMP OS goes off and destroys everything. I exit the game and unsubscribe.
_____________________
This an anti-OS topic? Not really. I am interested in tactics, counter tactics, counter-counter tactics, counter-counter-counter tactics, counter-counter-counter-counter tactics... OS reduces tactics, it simplifies the game, it dumbs it down. I am against reducing tactics, like spawning on top of the squad leader (yuck).
.
.
.
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This isn't about PS1, it's about Tactics and dumbing down PS2.
I can't really give PS2 examples since it's not a released game.
Slide Surveyor
2012-07-07, 06:02 PM
Let's hope OS isn't in PS2....
Comet
2012-07-07, 06:04 PM
I think it was said somewhere that OS is planned to be in PS2.
I don't care for OS in Tribes Ascend either, it counters a lot of other tactics and has no counter for itself.
Buggsy
2012-07-07, 06:11 PM
I think it was said somewhere that OS is planned to be in PS2.
I don't care for OS in Tribes Ascend either, it counters a lot of other tactics and has no counter for itself.
It's not really a matter of not being able to counter OS that makes it "meh", it's how it narrows tactics down to one thing and one thing only: FRONTAL ASSAULT.
I like playing support, cause playing frontal assault can get boring after a while.
My favorite unit in PS1 was the AMS. I liked scouting ahead, then setting up an AMS and defending it with mines and spitfires. While the CR5's were playing Rommel wannabe's I was out there setting up spawn points and actually directing the flow of the battle. Each player that spawned on my AMS was my little chess piece.
AMS kept getting OS'ed.
____________
I also liked playing anti-mine grenadier. I'd load up my rifle with EMP grenades (forgot the name of common rifle but it had a grenade launcher). When assaulting gates, usually the courtyard was full of mines, and I could simultaneously engage enemy infantry and take out mines with EMP grenades. It was a slow process but It still worked fine and I liked it.
Eventually everyone got CR and they just OS EMP the courtyard in every battle. So that playstyle was obsolete.
_____________
I also liked using delaying tactics. My last memory of playing PS1:
I decided to guard a back door from an attack. I strategically placed one mine behind each tree, so if an enemy were to take cover behind a tree opposite of where I placed myself, they would step on a mine. Then I'd put spitfires up in a crossfire pattern on the other side of trees facing me. Took me 10 minutes to setup and plan. It wasn't a very lethal setup, it was designed to slow the enemy down from accessing the back door. I place myself into defensive position.
15 minutes later a truck full of 5 enemies pulls up, they all hop out and I start shooting at them. They all take cover behind a tree, I hear 2 mines go off and grin a little. Nobody gets killed, but that's not my goal, my goal is to slow them down. I keep taking potshots at them, and I hear some of my spitfire turrets go off, and they destroy a couple of my spitfires.
Still no enemies dead, but that's not my goal, my goal is to delay them. They could have flanked my position and killed me, since my setup was pretty much at a 90 degree angle in between the trees and the back door. That was my weakness.
I delay them for a good 90 seconds until an EMP OS goes off and destroys everything. I exit the game and unsubscribe.
_____________________
This an anti-OS topic? Not really. I am interested in tactics, counter tactics, counter-counter tactics, counter-counter-counter tactics, counter-counter-counter-counter tactics... OS reduces tactics, it simplifies the game, it dumbs it down. I am against reducing tactics, like spawning on top of the squad leader (yuck).
.
.
.
.
This isn't about PS1, it's about Tactics and dumbing down PS2.
I can't really give PS2 examples since it's not a released game.
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL
Nothing as beeen (( dumb down )) in planetside 2 they have remoove some few vehicules to replace it by others who as the same roles it reduce the developpement cost and serve the same purpose ...
Also planetside 2 will be more action and front lines assault oriented Instead of having a (( hang around )) and Chill around gameplay some times
Planetside 2 isnt a pic nic like it was sometimes in Ps1
their will be more action more contestation over territory and Much more thing to do
Also down the road they will ad features vehicules etc.. depending on How much suport they have from the vast PC community !
All your post isnt about tactics since youll have a way more tactics and thing available to you in planetside 2
You talk about squad respawn ? This isnt tactical ? If i say i use Squad leader (( infiltrator )) who sneak up into a based and make their 9 squad member droping with pod on him this isnt a viable tactics ?
Sorry but all this dont make sens
Buggsy
2012-07-07, 06:27 PM
You talk about squad respawn ? This isnt tactical ? If i say i use Squad leader (( infiltrator )) who sneak up into a based and make their 9 squad member droping with pod on him this isnt a viable tactics ?
Sorry but all this dont make sens
COD infantry combat where enemies randomly spawn all over the place is not tactical, it is randomly shooting all over the place.
Tactics implies realism, not wackamole or Donkey Kong. At least an ounce of realism would be sufficient.
Littleman
2012-07-07, 06:46 PM
COD infantry combat where enemies randomly spawn all over the place is not tactical, it is randomly shooting all over the place.
Tactics implies realism, not wackamole or Donkey Kong. At least an ounce of realism would be sufficient.
The year is twenty-eight-hundred... something. Interstellar travel is possible, and you have guys on one side spewing plasma energy all over the place obeying some cryptic disembodied voice, yet one guy with the ranking privileges to call in ODST's to his position is beyond the realm of suspension of disbelief?
Last I heard, it's about 3 squad members tops, with a few minutes cooldown before the squad can spawn on top of their leader again. An infiltrator or LA getting behind enemy lines would only be capable of summoning a small team of commandos, however effective they may be.
Buggsy
2012-07-07, 06:49 PM
The year is twenty-eight-hundred... something. Interstellar travel is possible, and you have guys on one side spewing plasma energy all over the place obeying some cryptic disembodied voice, yet one guy with the ranking privileges to call in ODST's to his position is beyond the realm of suspension of disbelief?
You know how stupid Star Wars movies would have looked if Storm Troopers just randomly appeared all over the place?
"Looks like you managed to cut off our only escape route."
"Maybe you'd like it back in your cell Princess."
5 storm troopers spawn in behind them. OH yeah that would look so cool.
SixShooter
2012-07-07, 06:58 PM
You know how stupid Star Wars movies would have looked if Storm Troopers just randomly appeared all over the place?
"Looks like you managed to cut off our only escape route."
"Maybe you'd like it back in your cell Princess."
5 storm troopers spawn in behind them. OH yeah that would look so cool.
Wow man, you're starting a lot of angry threads today that are all pretty much about the same thing:huh: Have you even seen how squad spawning works? It's not like BF3 where they just appear, you can see the drop pods from a mile away and it takes a decent amount of time to hit the ground. Also, the cooldown timer before you can do it again is pretty long so if you die right after squad spawning you'll have to find a hard spawn point.
I know you like to use the term "dumbing it down" alot but maybe you should play the game before you freak out about it. Just a suggestion man;)
Runlikethewind
2012-07-07, 07:36 PM
I am interested in tactics, counter tactics, counter-counter tactics, counter-counter-counter tactics, counter-counter-counter-counter tactics... OS reduces tactics, it simplifies the game, it dumbs it down. I am against reducing tactics, like spawning on top of the squad leader (yuck).
If this is true then you should have known the OS's where coming as they are a part of the game and should have had a counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter strategy in place. Like maybe wait outside the base for the OS to go off then come in and attack them from behind as they all run down the backdoor into the base or something.
And did anyone else notice how all the examples in the OP where missing the most important strategic element in PS1, that is A SQUAD? You're complaining about tactics and your trying to defend a backdoor all by yourself? Really?
Buggsy
2012-07-07, 07:46 PM
If this is true then you should have known the OS's where coming as they are a part of the game and should have had a counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter-counter strategy in place. Like maybe wait outside the base for the OS to go off then come in and attack them from behind as they all run down the backdoor into the base or something.
And did anyone else notice how all the examples in the OP where missing the most important strategic element in PS1, that is A SQUAD? You're complaining about tactics and your trying to defend a backdoor all by yourself? Really?
A) There is no counter tactic to pushing the button.
B) It was an EMP OS which took out my deployables, and it completely destroyed the delaying tactic.
C) In real war defensive fortifications requires less soldiers to defend an area. That's what defense is all about.
Wow man, you're starting a lot of angry threads today that are all pretty much about the same thing:huh: Have you even seen how squad spawning works? It's not like BF3 where they just appear, you can see the drop pods from a mile away and it takes a decent amount of time to hit the ground. Also, the cooldown timer before you can do it again is pretty long so if you die right after squad spawning you'll have to find a hard spawn point.
I know you like to use the term "dumbing it down" alot but maybe you should play the game before you freak out about it. Just a suggestion man;)
So what if you can spot them a mile away, you could also spot someone a mile away in BF2142 but that didn't matter.
So what if there's a cooldown timer, how did the cooldown timer work out with OS? Not very good since everyone and their pet hamster had one.
SixShooter
2012-07-07, 08:24 PM
So what if you can spot them a mile away, you could also spot someone a mile away in BF2142 but that didn't matter.
So what if there's a cooldown timer, how did the cooldown timer work out with OS? Not very good since everyone and their pet hamster had one.
Tactically this was a brilliant move to go with the "so what" defensive manuver here. Well played sir:clap::clap:
I have been playing a fair amount of PS1 lately and I rarely get OS'd. Maybe it's because I'm not camping out waiting to get OS's while trying to delay the enemy. Did you know that a really good way to delay the enemy is to kill them and make them have to respawn?. When I do happen to eat an OS I certainly don't throw a fit and rage quit. I simply respawn and get back to the battle.
I'm still not sure why you're so mad about a game you've never played. Maybe PS2 is just not the game for you. I don't know which games are out there that can cater to elitists who a above such dumbed down games as PS2 but I wish you well on your journey. Remeber man, it's just a game:)
Buggsy
2012-07-07, 08:49 PM
Tactically this was a brilliant move to go with the "so what" defensive manuver here. Well played sir:clap::clap:
I have been playing a fair amount of PS1 lately and I rarely get OS'd.
Again if you actually read my post, I am complaining about the ElectroMagneticPulse OS, not the other one. The ElectroMagneticPulse OS has a much shorter cooldown and much larger radius.
Runlikethewind
2012-07-07, 08:55 PM
A) There is no counter tactic to pushing the button.
B) It was an EMP OS which took out my deployables, and it completely destroyed the delaying tactic.
C) In real war defensive fortifications requires less soldiers to defend an area. That's what defense is all about.
I don't know. You talk about tactics and counter tactics then you give up and quit when someone else comes up with a counter to your counter. Its a game not real life, you play the rules of the game not some fake idea about how the game should be. You want to delay them? why not deploy an ams right outside the backdoor? As soon as they roll up they'll do the same thing anyone in PS1 does when they see an enemy ams, the shoot it, buying you several seconds of delay. Then they OS you're deployables, just like you should have known they would, and rush the backdoor. And what do they find on the other side? A pile of boomers. You don't even need to be on the trigger, just seeing those boomers will cause them to stop and deal with them (and I'm pretty sure they would not have been taken out by the OS since they would be inside, although I could be wrong). Point is, if you're so into strategy and counter strategy why quit when you fail, why not come up with a new strategy? Even if they didn't OS a good squad would have sent in some reavers or something to take out your deployables moments before they pull up. Another counter strategy to your strategy. Really what I see in your op is this http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-example-richard-hatch-on-survivor.html Scrub.
Kalbuth
2012-07-07, 09:23 PM
I don't know. You talk about tactics and counter tactics then you give up and quit when someone else comes up with a counter to your counter. Its a game not real life, you play the rules of the game not some fake idea about how the game should be. You want to delay them? why not deploy an ams right outside the backdoor? As soon as they roll up they'll do the same thing anyone in PS1 does when they see an enemy ams, the shoot it, buying you several seconds of delay. Then they OS you're deployables, just like you should have known they would, and rush the backdoor. And what do they find on the other side? A pile of boomers. You don't even need to be on the trigger, just seeing those boomers will cause them to stop and deal with them (and I'm pretty sure they would not have been taken out by the OS since they would be inside, although I could be wrong). Point is, if you're so into strategy and counter strategy why quit when you fail, why not come up with a new strategy? Even if they didn't OS a good squad would have sent in some reavers or something to take out your deployables moments before they pull up. Another counter strategy to your strategy. Really what I see in your op is this http://www.sirlin.net/articles/playing-to-win-example-richard-hatch-on-survivor.html Scrub.
When you compare some thinking in placement, time taken, certifications involved, etc... to build the defence, and ... getting your CUD out and clicking on a button.... it's rather obvious.
The EMP/OS thing has been put in place for the lazies.
Add to this the current availability of all this due to how stupid the CR system is, and you get frustration by people seeing their work easily dispatched without even more than 2 seconds of thinking and a click of a mouse. It's not like OS or EMP is anything advanced (please, don't even come up with the term "tactic" for this).
It's rather strange from a game design perspective, to put in place a whole content on defense and deployables setup, taking time to do, all this to give all tools to nullify all in seconds without an ounce of effort. Well, if you don't see how stupid it is (again, from a game design perspective)... I don't know. Just an example for me of "catering to the lowest common denominator" ("Oh, noes, taking out all these deployables is going to take sooo much time!!! ** sob sob **" )
Buggsy
2012-07-07, 09:32 PM
I don't know. You talk about tactics and counter tactics then you give up and quit when someone else comes up with a counter to your counter.
Pushing a button is not a valid tactic, it's an I-win button.
The OS is a game of chess where every piece is a queen.
The OS is a game of stratego where every piece is a 1.
The OS is a game of battleship where every peg has a ship in it.
The OS is a game of Monopoly where every place is Boardwalk.
Get how lame it is? The OS negates every single tactic until the only valid tactic you have left is the OS. I hear that's how PS1 plays these days.
PrISM
2012-07-07, 10:06 PM
Get how lame it is? The OS negates every single tactic until the only valid tactic you have left is the OS. I hear that's how PS1 plays these days.
Keep in mind how old the game is and the sheer number of CR5s that there are now. The EMP itself is not a bad game mechanic. It's the simple fact that there are so many of them.
QuantumMechanic
2012-07-07, 11:25 PM
The not-so-fun gameplay that Buggsy describes happens when almost half the playerbase has CR5. Which is pretty much what the game is like right now.
OSes happen *all the friggin time*. One after another. It's not particularly fun, but it's what happens with a game that has been around for 9 years.
But the EMP explosion from the bang bus - that's the vehicle's special ability. That's intended functionality.
StumpyTheOzzie
2012-07-08, 12:16 AM
LOLLLLLLLLLLLL
Nothing as beeen (( dumb down )) in planetside 2 they have remoove some few vehicules to replace it by others who as the same roles it reduce the developpement cost and serve the same purpose ...
Also planetside 2 will be more action and front lines assault oriented Instead of having a (( hang around )) and Chill around gameplay some times
Planetside 2 isnt a pic nic like it was sometimes in Ps1
their will be more action more contestation over territory and Much more thing to do
Also down the road they will ad features vehicules etc.. depending on How much suport they have from the vast PC community !
All your post isnt about tactics since youll have a way more tactics and thing available to you in planetside 2
You talk about squad respawn ? This isnt tactical ? If i say i use Squad leader (( infiltrator )) who sneak up into a based and make their 9 squad member droping with pod on him this isnt a viable tactics ?
Sorry but all this dont make sens
:rofl:
Oh god... I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh. English is my first language and I can't speak any others and blah blah blah
That just really hit my funnybone. I'm not trying to be a dick or insult anyone.
Anyway, to the OP, I pretty much agree with everything you said. That and the fact that there are that many engy/medics out there that unless you kill immediately, you may as well not bother. There's another thread about the OS being bad. Seems like the people who have OS capabilities like the idea of them and everyone who is only on the receiving end of them hates them. Big surprise.
Dubious
2012-07-08, 12:38 AM
OS should have a much longer cooldown
current 3 hours is a joke, since there is like 190 CR5s online.. (more or less)
EMP should also have a longer cooldown, atleast an hour
but i guess its kinda to late for that now, just hope there wont be anything similar in PS2, even tho ive read there will be an OS..
Graywolves
2012-07-08, 01:22 AM
I disagree. OS makes things more complicated.
You want your AMS to not be located ( or at least have an extra) in case it is found and OS'd. When loading a galaxy or forming up in general you want to be quick and not sit in an area too long or else you get OS'd. It's something you have to think about and expect.
There is a problem in how abundant Orbital Strikes seem to be.
igster
2012-07-08, 02:04 AM
Although I agree that CE is pretty weak in this game... I think that it is intentional and to some extent I think that it isn't far off the right balance. Locking down entire squads with a few deployable defences for 5 minutes even basically slows the game down massively and in general it would lead to stalemates in the game much more than now.
It is about evolving your gameplay to counter the counters. CE is still about the most fun to play in the game - I've been advanced engineer for ages and it adds a nice dimension. Come up against a good player with good CE skills and it is pretty harsh.
Yes an EMP does take out all your carefully laid out traps. But imagine if there was simply no way to clear all of these traps other than to take your troops with thumpers and emp grenades. Every base would take 20 minutes to simply clear CE and taking court yards would be next to impossible.
In the situation you describe (1) the EMP going off and (2) a simple /broadcast would bring reinforcements to the back door to stop the breach. You've slowed them down and forced them to use a big 'Haaaaaai' EMP that every in the base can hear has alerted the defenders to where the attack is coming from.
There are lots more situations where strong CE is awesome defensively. Not only for possibly getting kills, but also to alert defending troops about the movements of the enemy.
You should have stuck with it. There is much more fun to be had with CE, finding new ways to trick, trap, delay and annoy the enemy. Think about use of boomers to counter EMPs. If a troop lands at a back door and emp's... any boomer they are standing on gets set off and hopefully they have dropped out of a plane right onto your carefully positioned boomer. Bang play your cards right and its the entire galaxy squad in one hit.
Dagron
2012-07-08, 02:26 AM
Keep in mind how old the game is and the sheer number of CR5s that there are now. The EMP itself is not a bad game mechanic. It's the simple fact that there are so many of them.
The not-so-fun gameplay that Buggsy describes happens when almost half the playerbase has CR5. Which is pretty much what the game is like right now.
OSes happen *all the friggin time*. One after another. It's not particularly fun, but it's what happens with a game that has been around for 9 years.
The long run is something that should be factored in, just because the game is old and everyone had time to reach the top command lvl isn't an excuse for it to happen every second, it's still lame.
Jamini
2012-07-08, 03:36 AM
Just going to throw a fun little counter-tactic to EMPs for the OP.
Lay boomers between your mines when defending areas that get hotdrops. The EMP will set them off and kill anyone in the minefield, often taking out the entire squad that dropped (or at least enough of them so that you can clean up with a punisher or ES rifle.)
Perhaps you just haven't thought enough about counter-tactics to command abilities?
SixShooter
2012-07-08, 03:46 AM
Again if you actually read my post, I am complaining about the ElectroMagneticPulse OS, not the other one. The ElectroMagneticPulse OS has a much shorter cooldown and much larger radius.
OK man, I guess I'll play your game for another round:rolleyes:
There seems to be some confusion on what an OS is. An OS is an Orbital Strike that comes from the sky (a satillite in orbit) that is a giant lazer that destroys everthing in its path. A CR5 EMP is not an OS. It is generated from the CUD (Command Uplink Device) and actually has roughly the same radius as a CR5 OS (I know this from 9 yeats of experience since it's hard to pull out a tape measure with these things).
My point is that you're talking about two very different things. An OS is an OS and an EMP is an EMP, both of which are very valid tactics. It seems that your gripe is that there is a counter to your equally valid tactic. This could have been equally accomplished with a few guys throwing jammer nades. Sure it sucks that you spent the time to lay out CE everywhere only to have it EMP'd but seriously, that happens all the time in so many different games.
Your points just don't hold up and I say that with no malice or uglyness. I enjoy these discussions but I just think that you're wrong. Niether one (OS or EMP) can be considered a win button because it is a valid tactic on the field of war, deal with it (also you can just get out of the way of an OS, I've seen so many that hit nobody).
It has been hinted (or confirmed, correct me if I'm wrong) that there will be a type of ES OS for PS2. I have heard nothing about the CR5 abilities and whether or not they will have an EMP as you have described for PS1.
I find it odd that you feel that there will be no coordinated tactictics and you don't have the desire to come up with new tactics with the provided mechanics of the game. In direct response to an earlier post of yous - squad spawn works absolutly nothing like squad spawning on any other game I've played (disclaimer - I have not played every game ever made but have played a fair amount of MW3 and BF3 abd have found the PS2 version to be quite different).
Combining the AMS with the Galaxy adds a whole new dynamic and your argument that there will be no frontline is just wrong. If you can't play the game and discover new tactics and adapt to a new style of gameplay, I actually feel bad for you because you're going to miss out on some good times. Those of us who want that will make that happen with the gameplay mechanics that are provided just as we did with PS1.
It sounds to me like you did not like the fist game and will really not like the second game. From your OP it sounds like you really wanted something to happen (delaying the enemy without killing them???) but an EMP ruined your fun and you rage quit and unsubbed.
I really don't understand the hatred for "modern FPS" games. I grew up on PC games and console games and love them both. I have had a great time the last few years playing on Xbox Live and PSN with games like COD and BF (and many other genres). The last time I checked, games were more about having fun and less about being elitist and having to rant about how overly comlicated game mechanics have been simplified or "dumbed down".
Get over it and move on and come up with new tactics (that's my plan and I'm super excided!!!!) or move on to a game that will fit your needs. I have nothin but love for ya man and I hope you can figure it out.:)
Porkington
2012-07-08, 04:29 AM
Amen to that.
Buggsy
2012-07-08, 09:54 AM
Just going to throw a fun little counter-tactic to EMPs for the OP.
Lay boomers between your mines when defending areas that get hotdrops. The EMP will set them off and kill anyone in the minefield, often taking out the entire squad that dropped (or at least enough of them so that you can clean up with a punisher or ES rifle.)
Perhaps you just haven't thought enough about counter-tactics to command abilities?
A) When the I-win button pusher hit the EMP OS he wasn't standing in the middle of a minefield so it wouldn't have mattered.
B) There is no counter to the OS.
The long run is something that should be factored in, just because the game is old and everyone had time to reach the top command lvl isn't an excuse for it to happen every second, it's still lame.
It's shortsighted of the devs not to see it, I read a post like from 2002 before PS1 came out, someone said the same thing.
Although I agree that CE is pretty weak in this game... I think that it is intentional and to some extent I think that it isn't far off the right balance. Locking down entire squads with a few deployable defences for 5 minutes even basically slows the game down massively and in general it would lead to stalemates in the game much more than now.
"Slows the game down"? You think everyone is entitled to victory simply by showing up?
It is about evolving your gameplay to counter the counters.
There is no counter to the OS. They could have flanked me instead of using their I-Win button.
CE is still about the most fun to play in the game - I've been advanced engineer for ages and it adds a nice dimension. Come up against a good player with good CE skills and it is pretty harsh.
Yes an EMP does take out all your carefully laid out traps.
They could have used EMP grenades instead of hitting their I-Win button.
But imagine if there was simply no way to clear all of these traps other than to take your troops with thumpers and emp grenades. Every base would take 20 minutes to simply clear CE and taking court yards would be next to impossible.
Game was like this when it first came out and it was as fun as hell to clear out enemy mines. Just like I described in first post.
In the situation you describe (1) the EMP going off and (2) a simple /broadcast would bring reinforcements to the back door to stop the breach. You've slowed them down and forced them to use a big 'Haaaaaai' EMP that every in the base can hear has alerted the defenders to where the attack is coming from.
You know how herding cats is. I had to bottle them up for at least 3 minutes before another player even would hear or show up.
There are lots more situations where strong CE is awesome defensively. Not only for possibly getting kills, but also to alert defending troops about the movements of the enemy.
Not with the EMP OS.
You should have stuck with it. There is much more fun to be had with CE, finding new ways to trick, trap, delay and annoy the enemy.
Not with the EMP OS
Think about use of boomers to counter EMPs. If a troop lands at a back door and emp's... any boomer they are standing on gets set off and hopefully they have dropped out of a plane right onto your carefully positioned boomer. Bang play your cards right and its the entire galaxy squad in one hit.
Why would someone stand on a boomer? They're not hard to see. Anyways my goal was to DELAY them, not kill them. I kill them and they just spawn somewhere else and give someone else on my team a hard time. I DELAY them and I've become a bigger force multiplier for my side. Yeah I know, playing for my faction instead of for experience points is so radical and weird. I'm such an old school roleplayer.
ringring
2012-07-08, 10:01 AM
Just going to throw a fun little counter-tactic to EMPs for the OP.
Lay boomers between your mines when defending areas that get hotdrops. The EMP will set them off and kill anyone in the minefield, often taking out the entire squad that dropped (or at least enough of them so that you can clean up with a punisher or ES rifle.)
Perhaps you just haven't thought enough about counter-tactics to command abilities?
Get an ams, deploy it outside the BD, damage it a bit...
Deploy mines and boomers .... and maybe an emp mine, the ams blows up and kills everyone witin the bubble ..... it works!
And yea, the op is disappointing
Buggsy
2012-07-08, 10:04 AM
I disagree. OS makes things more complicated.
OS simplifies the game, doesn't make anything more complicated.
You want your AMS to not be located ( or at least have an extra) in case it is found and OS'd. When loading a galaxy or forming up in general you want to be quick and not sit in an area too long or else you get OS'd. It's something you have to think about and expect.
Toss concentration of force tactic out the window.
There is a problem in how abundant Orbital Strikes seem to be.
If something is crap you don't balance it by reducing the number of crap droppings, you clean it up and remove crap.
:rofl:
Oh god... I'm sorry, I shouldn't laugh. English is my first language and I can't speak any others and blah blah blah
That just really hit my funnybone. I'm not trying to be a dick or insult anyone.
Anyway, to the OP, I pretty much agree with everything you said. That and the fact that there are that many engy/medics out there that unless you kill immediately, you may as well not bother. There's another thread about the OS being bad. Seems like the people who have OS capabilities like the idea of them and everyone who is only on the receiving end of them hates them. Big surprise.
I was rarely killed by an OS, that's not my beef with them, my beef with the OS is that they reduce tactics to only one tactic: FRONTAL ASSAULT.
Doing Frontal Assault gets old after a while; like 1 hour.
The not-so-fun gameplay that Buggsy describes happens when almost half the playerbase has CR5. Which is pretty much what the game is like right now.
OSes happen *all the friggin time*. One after another. It's not particularly fun, but it's what happens with a game that has been around for 9 years.
But the EMP explosion from the bang bus - that's the vehicle's special ability. That's intended functionality.
I'm glad I didn't stick around to see the "bang bus", glad I unsubbed before that.
*rolls eyes*
Why do players feel entitled to victory simply by logging on?
Keep in mind how old the game is and the sheer number of CR5s that there are now. The EMP itself is not a bad game mechanic. It's the simple fact that there are so many of them.
The EMP OS is the worse offender out of the 2 types of OS.
igster
2012-07-08, 10:33 AM
Unfortunately, the flow of the game is pretty different compared to the situation you described. People don't drop at a back door, and look for trees to cover them while a hacker hacks the door open.
Most of the time, they drop from light aircraft, phantasms or galaxies as close as possible to the backdoor. In the time between the door and you departing your aircraft is the 'golden time' for the attackers to get mown down by aircraft, tanks and any defenders on the wall.
Therefore the standard practise is to drop at the back door emping as they land directly at the back door. Therefore they don't actually 'know they are landind' on a boomer. They think they are dropping into a minefield which will be cleared by the emp as they get close to the ground.
They are inside the base rather than having to fight your way in. If you tried to fight your way into a back door in enemy territory they will get creamed. Just takes 1 mosquito pilot to bail their vehicle on top of them and they are all dead.
Really, there are lots of tactics. Just so happens that the ones you described although in real life would be common sense... in this game just doesnt quite work. Simple - just alter your tactics and find one that does.
It is an EMP and not an OS EMP. The OS comes from orbit - hence it is an orbital strike. An EMP is an electromagnetic pulse emanating from your cud. (Command Uplink Device)
All I was stating was that there is a support meta game in Planetside. Doesn't always work since there are counters to everything. Quite often the attackers bring along those counters and sometimes they don't.
You can counter the counters.
You just didnt give the game the time to adapt.
There is no I win button. There are always counters. Very simple really. If there weren't counters, then it would be a sucky game.
Buggsy
2012-07-08, 10:39 AM
Unfortunately, the flow of the game is pretty different compared to the situation you described. People don't drop at a back door, and look for trees to cover them while a hacker hacks the door open.
Most of the time, they drop from light aircraft, phantasms or galaxies as close as possible to the backdoor. In the time between the door and you departing your aircraft is the 'golden time' for the attackers to get mown down by aircraft, tanks and any defenders on the wall.
You're describing a heavy battle where everyone runs around with guns blazing.
I was describing the beginning of a battle when the enemy tries, always tries to stealthily come in the back door from a ground vehicle. Besides, I placed myself near the backdoor and was also watching for droppers.
Playing guns-a-blazing frontal assault gets boring after a while, ya know.
And for the 100th time, there is no counter to the OS, EMP OS, or mini OS.
Crator
2012-07-08, 11:54 AM
Well, I agree with OP on all points. The OS (Orbital Strike) and EMP Blast command abilities are just way too overpowered. Again, back in the day, when they were few and far between, it was okay once in a while. But all the time like it is now is stupid.
Please please please, restrict these things in PS2! FFS!
Buggsy
2012-07-08, 12:22 PM
Well, I agree with OP on all points. The OS (Orbital Strike) and EMP Blast command abilities are just way too overpowered. Again, back in the day, when they were few and far between, it was okay once in a while. But all the time like it is now is stupid.
Please please please, restrict these things in PS2! FFS!
They shouldn't be restricted, they should be completely removed from the game.
TheBladeRoden
2012-07-09, 05:21 PM
Lesson be learned, don't put an ability/item/weapon in the game that everyone could get eventually, without balancing for a scenario where everyone does have that ability/item/weapon simultaneously.
Accuser
2012-07-09, 10:34 PM
Lesson be learned, don't put an ability/item/weapon in the game that everyone could get eventually, without balancing for a scenario where everyone does have that ability/item/weapon simultaneously.
Lesson hopefully learned.
I think the Devs seriously want a 2 year player to be only slightly more powerful than a brand new player. I honestly don't see how you could achieve that if you give the 2 year player a massive orbital satellite-mounted laser cannon.
Buggsy
2012-07-09, 11:39 PM
Lesson be learned, don't put an ability/item/weapon in the game that everyone could get eventually, without balancing for a scenario where everyone does have that ability/item/weapon simultaneously.
Or stop destroying player creativity. The CUD abilities destroy a whole bunch of realistic tactics and play styles. The only tactic left in planetside is "run around and shoot whatever."
Karrade
2012-07-10, 07:48 AM
At times I played like your playstyle setting up CE, and have to admit I stopped doing it as much when OS's were becoming very common, as a clever player would OS the BD before making a run on it. CE became more useful in the CY (under cover), motion sensors around entry points, or mines on bridges etc.
Prior to this I would mine behind the trees as well, or rather just as the corners, so when people move around them to see if there is a mine the otherside, they are already dead. - This works in many situations, with corners/walls/doors etc.
So yeah the BD became pretty much OS food, and not as worth CE'ing, unless it was just a zerg you were facing.
I don't know what the layout of the PS2 bases will be like yet, as to whether CEing will be worth it in PS2. Depends on layout, how much CE you can deploy, vs how much OS's cost. For PS2 - If OS's take out all CE (even when spread out), move to something else, like a medic/gal driver/gunner if you like support
Crator
2012-07-10, 10:07 AM
Pretty sure most here know work-arounds to the issues with EMP Blast/OS in relation to CE. That not what we are saying. What we are saying is the CR4/5 abilities are crap for game-play. That's all....
Snipefrag
2012-07-11, 10:16 AM
EMP's are not crap for gameplay, just because there are a hard counter to something you like doing doesn't make them crap for gameplay. Everything in PS1 has a hard counter and unless you know what you are doing you will get destroyed:
liked to foot zerg? aircrafts and vehicles will crush you.
Like Aircrafts? AA will crush you.
Like MAXES? AV will crush you.
Like Stealthing? Darklight will crush you.
Like MBT? Air will crush you.
The game was built around these hard counters so EVERYONE didn't end up doing that one thing, the only thing that didn't adhere to these rules were BFR's.. and we know how that went.
There is very little difference in this case between 2/3 jammer nades and a Cr5 EMP, so stop whining. For sure there are way too many going off nowadays kind of making CE kind of worthless, but that's due to too many people having Cr5. When someone EMP's all your stuff it should be a rare occurrence when an organised group and their commander comes across your emplacement setup. Not whenever anyone with a high rank comes across it.
Orbital strikes actual enhance gameplay, when they are few and far between they offer another tactical option that can really swing battles in a defensive or offensive sense. But again, you shouldn't see more than 1-2 a day. They should be a rare sight.
Crator
2012-07-11, 12:03 PM
So what's the counter for EMP blast and OS? There is none. Throwing EMP nades is not an instant "wipe all CE in area" one touch fix. It requires, as a solo player, you throw many EMP nades to disperse all the CE in the area. And a team of players with EMP nades requires teamwork, so not a bad thing about that.
Snipefrag
2012-07-11, 01:37 PM
The difference is that CE is an inventory item that you can simply relay if it gets jammered/EMP, there is no prerequisite beyond the cert which in theory you can get at BR6. The CR4/5 EMP has taken a hell of a long time to earn and can only be used infrequently by a commander. The problem is when too many people gain that rank and EMP's and OS's are going off every 30 seconds.
Your hope of having them removed is a pipe dream, just because you don't want to relay CE every now and then. Be realistic and push for a limited amount of commanders per server at a time.. Something more like the WoW arena rankings where you have to work to maintain your Command rank by continually leading.
Crator
2012-07-11, 01:42 PM
If you're speaking to me, I never said anything about removing them. Although I could do without them myself. If you've ever laid CE you know how long it can take, especially with it being insta-destroyed so often. I'm almost always open to compromise for any idea.
Snipefrag
2012-07-11, 02:29 PM
Sorry.. I thought you was OP.. I've been playing since beta and most of the time I've had CE. I know the pain of it, that's why I don't spend extortionate amounts of time setting it up, and then come on the forums complaining when it's destroyed like the OP. it should be something that supplements your gameplay... Not the be all and end all.
Crator
2012-07-11, 04:23 PM
Defiantly agree that it shouldn't the primary focus of one's game play time. And as you said, a supplement. I use it this way in PS1 and typically put the CE around a base to act as a warning signal that there is an enemy trying to get in. That's only when I use it near doors of a base. The more effective use of mines is knowing the best place to put it that doesn't involve being near the base where people typically use the EMP blast. Can't say much about spitfires here cause they aren't even in PS2.
We are focusing on the EMP blast in our discussion right now. The OS is a different story imo. But both abilities need to be limited more then how they were in PS1.
Shadowrath
2012-07-11, 04:36 PM
Wow man, you're starting a lot of angry threads today that are all pretty much about the same thing:huh: Have you even seen how squad spawning works? It's not like BF3 where they just appear, you can see the drop pods from a mile away and it takes a decent amount of time to hit the ground. Also, the cooldown timer before you can do it again is pretty long so if you die right after squad spawning you'll have to find a hard spawn point.
I know you like to use the term "dumbing it down" alot but maybe you should play the game before you freak out about it. Just a suggestion man;)
Case and point.
Lopshot
2012-07-11, 10:29 PM
The difference is that CE is an inventory item that you can simply relay if it gets jammered/EMP, there is no prerequisite beyond the cert which in theory you can get at BR6. The CR4/5 EMP has taken a hell of a long time to earn and can only be used infrequently by a commander. The problem is when too many people gain that rank and EMP's and OS's are going off every 30 seconds.
You're hope of having them removed is a pipe dream, just because you don't want to relay CE every now and then. Be realistic and push for a limited amount of commanders per server at a time.. Something more like the WoW arena rankings where you have to work to maintain your Command rank by continually leading.
Perfectly said "Something more like the WoW arena rankings where you have to work to maintain your Command rank by continually leading."
Noxey
2012-07-12, 07:20 AM
frontal assault can get boring after a while.
Mix it up abit man, get your brown wings and learn to fly
MCYRook
2012-07-12, 09:00 AM
There is very little difference in this case between 2/3 jammer nades and a Cr5 EMP
So why do we need the EMP then? ;)
There is a difference, and it's in the effort/reward ratio and the speed.
To lay a sizable mine field and a few spits and motions, say at a base entrance, requires probably two full CE loadouts. The Engy grabs his loadout, runs out there, lays each piece of CE (being very vulnerable while doing so), runs back in to resupply, and lays the rest. Total time effort: something like 1-2 mins.
To clear all that stuff, you need much less time even with Jammers. You'd probably throw like half a dozen of them in this case. Total time effort: like 10-20 secs.
EMP blast, it's as quick and easy as pulling the CUD and clicking on "EMP". Total time effort: about 3 secs.
Now, the reward isn't the same for both sides. The CE guy can hope to get a juicy kill or two from his stuff, while the attacker guy just wants to get from A to B without being blown or shot to pieces by auto-attacking minions. Also, most people don't enjoy when they have to fight more CE than actual people, so that's a point as well to keep gameplay fun.
But still, EMP ist just pretty damn powerful. Because even if you can't expect to get many kills from CE, the least you would hope for is to delay your opponent somewhat. But with EMP, even the delay is almost neglegible. And as has been pointed out, the EMP is a hard counter to CE, but cannot be countered in return. Its only downside is its cooldown (which isn't long either, 20 mins) - and just as with OS, balancing very powerful things just with a lengthy cooldown is almost never a good design choice. Doesn't matter if many people have it or not, although that naturally makes it worse.
Metalsheep
2012-07-12, 11:15 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the EMP or the OS. With the sheer amount of CE in the game, something like the EMP is necessary. You can't expect every player to carry a dozen Jammers with him to counter all the CE people lay.
Also, on a backdoor attack, its not very bright to roll up in ground vehicles. The CE will crush them. Most organized droppers will fly in with a Phantasm or Gal, land on the WALL above the backdoor, kill your CE or EMP, then jump down and hack the door. In eiather situation, your CE at BD was moot. I would take a group of guys 3 seconds to clear it all regardless of EMP. If the guys managed to roll up to your BD in a ground vehicle, get out, have a small firefight with you, THEN EMP. You didnt place your CE very well, it should have wrecked their truck before it arrived.
Also, when placing mines behind trees to catch people by suprise, its better to also lay a spitfire ontop of the mine. Proximity mines dont really hurt infantry, but a detonating spitfire is an instant kill in a large radius. Also keeps Data Corrupters from hacking your spits. It simply sounded like the squad that you were fighting were just better organized. Not everyone carrys a CuD on them at all times. Usually only a few people in an organized attack keep their CuDs or bring them with. A CuD is useless indoors, you could have exta ammo or an ACE or something better used.
The EMP is a hard counter to CE and Vehicles (temporarily). He cant fight back with his CuD out, shoot him. If he had friends protecting him while he EMPd, they were using superior tactics.
The OS also is a simple counter... move. Don't stand in the OS and you wont die. OS's were designed to take out hard, immobile, well defended emplacements that are typically hard or impossible to destroy conventionally. Like a CE'd AMS. If you dont want your AMS OS'd, dont CE it, and move it every so often so enemies cant get a bead on it. CE just makes your AMS easier to find, if an enemy stumbles on it and detonates your mines, it hurts your AMS and shows its location because the cloaking fails. Another decent counter to an OS is a Sensor Disruptor, it doesnt stop the OS from coming down, but it makes it difficult to target your AMS, since they cant just pop Reviel Enemies and see the stream of guys coming from your AMS. They actually have to go looking for your AMS or guess. OS's dont really rack up kills anymore, infantry move out of the way too fast. Theyre mostly used to take out Phalanx Turrets, Loadstars and AMS's and sometimes BFRs.
Crator
2012-07-12, 11:40 AM
I don't see anything wrong with the EMP or the OS. With the sheer amount of CE in the game, something like the EMP is necessary. You can't expect every player to carry a dozen Jammers with him to counter all the CE people lay.
I do. And there's usually enough space to carry at least one pack of EMP nades in most load-outs. And that'll usually be enough to take out the CE in one area. I carry more then one emp nade pack more to combat vehicles then to effectively take out all CE in an area.
Also, on a backdoor attack, its not very bright to roll up in ground vehicles. The CE will crush them. Most organized droppers will fly in with a Phantasm or Gal, land on the WALL above the backdoor, kill your CE or EMP, then jump down and hack the door. In eiather situation, your CE at BD was moot. I would take a group of guys 3 seconds to clear it all regardless of EMP. If the guys managed to roll up to your BD in a ground vehicle, get out, have a small firefight with you, THEN EMP. You didnt place your CE very well, it should have wrecked their truck before it arrived.
Also, when placing mines behind trees to catch people by suprise, its better to also lay a spitfire ontop of the mine. Proximity mines dont really hurt infantry, but a detonating spitfire is an instant kill in a large radius. Also keeps Data Corrupters from hacking your spits. It simply sounded like the squad that you were fighting were just better organized. Not everyone carrys a CuD on them at all times. Usually only a few people in an organized attack keep their CuDs or bring them with. A CuD is useless indoors, you could have exta ammo or an ACE or something better used.
The EMP is a hard counter to CE and Vehicles (temporarily). He cant fight back with his CuD out, shoot him. If he had friends protecting him while he EMPd, they were using superior tactics.
All good points.
The OS also is a simple counter... move. Don't stand in the OS and you wont die. OS's were designed to take out hard, immobile, well defended emplacements that are typically hard or impossible to destroy conventionally. Like a CE'd AMS. If you dont want your AMS OS'd, dont CE it, and move it every so often so enemies cant get a bead on it. CE just makes your AMS easier to find, if an enemy stumbles on it and detonates your mines, it hurts your AMS and shows its location because the cloaking fails. Another decent counter to an OS is a Sensor Disruptor, it doesnt stop the OS from coming down, but it makes it difficult to target your AMS, since they cant just pop Reviel Enemies and see the stream of guys coming from your AMS. They actually have to go looking for your AMS or guess. OS's dont really rack up kills anymore, infantry move out of the way too fast. Theyre mostly used to take out Phalanx Turrets, Loadstars and AMS's and sometimes BFRs.
Easier said then done imo. But all good points. I've learned that it isn't very smart to put mines inside an AMS cloak bubble in situations where there is heavy fighting going on. I'd rather stay and protect my AMS and try and move it if I can.
TIP: For an AMS driver, to prevent other combat engineers from putting mines in your cloak bubble, cause they don't know better, put mines not too far outside of the cloak bubble so others can't put it inside.
Most of the time, even when you move it, it's going to be seen while moving and get blown up anyways. But, I do use mines inside AMS cloak bubble when I'm deploying it in a location that doesn't have much activity. This is to help alarm me that an enemy (usually a cloaker) finds the AMS so I have a chance to react. This allows me to scout further away from my AMS.
Metalsheep
2012-07-12, 12:04 PM
I do. And there's usually enough space to carry at least one pack of EMP nades in most load-outs. And that'll usually be enough to take out the CE in one area. I carry more then one emp nade pack more to combat vehicles then to effectively take out all CE in an area.
A single Combat engineer can palce 20 mines and 10 Spitfires. And a Fortification Engineer can palce 25 mines and 15 spits. (I think thats accurate, i havent CE'd in a while)
BUT, 3 jammer grenades is nowhere near enough to take all that out. Even if your just pushing BD, you're likely to deal with at least 5-10 mines and 3-5 spitfires. Assuming only a single Fort Engi CE'd the base. (8-10 mines and 5 spits per gate.)
I feel that the sheer volume of CE calls for a counter that can clear it out. The CuD EMP does just that. Personally i hate the EMP on the Sundy-Bus more than the EMP from the CUD. Its basically a CR5 EMP that you can pop at any time without delay, and it recharges in what... 30ish seconds? the CuD EMP takes 20 minits. Also its 3 cert points that you can drive in Rexo and pull without Tech. Not to mention it carrys the same amount of people as a Galaxy, sports 6 guns AND can pierce a bases Shield Mod. (And the horn, who could ever forget that horn?) Though the guns require other players, the EMP does not, and you can just pull another sundy in 3-5 minits.
The CuD EMP requires you to earn at least CR3, but even then it has a really small radius, you need to get to 4 or 5 to get a wide range on it. While it does defeat the work of a single Combat Engineer, it also took that person taking the time to earn CR 3-5, happen to be carrying his CuD on him and has to take the time to position himself, use his CuD and set off the EMP. If you spread out your CE a bit, the EMP will only really destroy mines, mines arent even dangerous to Infantry. It stuns spits and motion trackers.
Really though, CE at the backdoor is usually just a losing situation, its only really there to slow down attackers and alert the base to when the BD is being attacked. It will almost always get wrecked very quickly. Now, CE well placed at gate entrances and in the woods/rocks/whatever around the base is what gets you kills. Or random CE nests in the middle of nowhere. You gotta get creative if you want your CE to do more than just delay the enemy.
Wow, that was longer than i thought it would be.
Crator
2012-07-12, 12:15 PM
A single Combat engineer can palce 20 mines and 10 Spitfires. And a Fortification Engineer can palce 25 mines and 15 spits. (I think thats accurate, i havent CE'd in a while)
BUT, 3 jammer grenades is nowhere near enough to take all that out. Even if your just pushing BD, you're likely to deal with at least 5-10 mines and 3-5 spitfires. Assuming only a single Fort Engi CE'd the base. (8-10 mines and 5 spits per gate.)
I tried to use my words carefully. Such as "usually be enough to take out CE in one area". I'd grab more emp nade packs or a punisher with EMP nades and REXO with a Phenoix if I knew I was trying to go specifically to kill a lot of CE. Although, I've changed my view on punisher emp nades as of late. Having more then two ammo types for the secondary gun on the punisher kinda sucks. Not easy to switch to the type you want with too many types in the load-out. So I switch my punisher nads to reg emp nades in that load-out.
Personally i hate the EMP on the Sundy-Bus more than the EMP from the CUD. Its basically a CR5 EMP that you can pop at any time without delay, and it recharges in what... 30ish seconds? the CuD EMP takes 20 minits. Also its 3 cert points that you can drive in Rexo and pull without Tech. Not to mention it carrys the same amount of people as a Galaxy, sports 6 guns AND can pierce a bases Shield Mod. (And the horn, who could ever forget that horn?) Though the guns require other players, the EMP does not, and you can just pull another sundy in 3-5 minits.
Yes, and yet you don't see the Sundy-bus all that often. Why is that? Couldn't be because it's top speed and torque sucks donkey balls, could it? The top speed/torque, along with all other restrictions... Also, a bang bus has a big profile vs. a ground trooper. More likely to get blown up before it gets close.
A counter that a player could throw or launch at the bang bus which stops it in it tracks for x amount of seconds could help a lot with that issue though....
Metalsheep
2012-07-12, 03:26 PM
I tried to use my words carefully. Such as "usually be enough to take out CE in one area". I'd grab more emp nade packs or a punisher with EMP nades and REXO with a Phenoix if I knew I was trying to go specifically to kill a lot of CE. Although, I've changed my view on punisher emp nades as of late. Having more then two ammo types for the secondary gun on the punisher kinda sucks. Not easy to switch to the type you want with too many types in the load-out. So I switch my punisher nads to reg emp nades in that load-out.
Yes, and yet you don't see the Sundy-bus all that often. Why is that? Couldn't be because it's top speed and torque sucks donkey balls, could it? The top speed/torque, along with all other restrictions... Also, a bang bus has a big profile vs. a ground trooper. More likely to get blown up before it gets close.
A counter that a player could throw or launch at the bang bus which stops it in it tracks for x amount of seconds could help a lot with that issue though....
The top speed is alright for a vehicle of its size, but its definately lacking in torque. Alot of vehicles in Planetside are, though. Cant handle hills or dips at all. You do see Sundys regularly, though. Typically theyre just a suicide EMP into a courtyard by a single driver. So you dont typically see them for long, before they explode. They have woefully inadequate armor for its purpose, especially against CE Mines, ironically. Using the EMP usually gets 1/4-1/2 your armor blown off.
Also, the Tactical Resonance Area Protection (TRAP) is the only way to really stop one, if you place them correctly in the gates. CAnt really place enough of them close enough togather to fully deny access, though. They should have allowed clusters of 3, rather than 2.
If i carry the Pwnisher, i usually keep a set of both Frag and EMP grenades, typically i dont use the EMP nades unless im checking for boomers, or fighting vehicles. But you do get alot more grenades for less space when carrying them with the pwnisher.
MCYRook
2012-07-13, 04:50 AM
Another decent counter to an OS is a Sensor Disruptor, it doesnt stop the OS from coming down, but it makes it difficult to target your AMS, since they cant just pop Reviel Enemies and see the stream of guys coming from your AMS. They actually have to go looking for your AMS or guess.
Wrong, Sensor Disruptors only disrupt radar detection, not Reveal. Nothing beats Reveal Enemies.
ringring
2012-07-13, 05:31 AM
Meh, I often lay my mines and spits.
Mostly the reason is to make things more difficult for the enemy and more advantageous for me/my squad and empire.
Often, very often in fact, I don't lay them to get kills. I put them down as an early warning device (who thinks early warning devices shouldn't be in the game).
Namely, if I think NC might attack Naum via a cave link, I'll often go and lay CE, firstly as a deterrance and secondly as something to generate hotspots (hopefully) that I can respond to.
If you're defending a base, put some at the bd, if it disappears go and find out why and kill the lttle beggar who did it. :p
Even tho I don't do it for kills I usually end up getting a few.
In short, CE is good, emp is good, it all adds to the gaiety of planetside.
MCYRook
2012-07-13, 06:13 AM
Often, very often in fact, I don't lay them to get kills. I put them down as an early warning device
That's very true, but it doesn't really pertain to the EMP ability. If you arrive at an empty cont and find your target base CE'd, you don't want to use an EMP on it. You're (usually) not under immediate time pressure, so why put it on cooldown, and you don't want to accidentally kill a spit, because that would cause a hotspot.
who thinks early warning devices shouldn't be in the game
Nobody in this thread as far as I can tell. ;)
Buggsy
2012-07-13, 06:18 PM
Meh, I often lay my mines and spits.
Mostly the reason is to make things more difficult for the enemy and more advantageous for me/my squad and empire.
Often, very often in fact, I don't lay them to get kills. I put them down as an early warning device (who thinks early warning devices shouldn't be in the game).
Namely, if I think NC might attack Naum via a cave link, I'll often go and lay CE, firstly as a deterrance and secondly as something to generate hotspots (hopefully) that I can respond to.
If you're defending a base, put some at the bd, if it disappears go and find out why and kill the lttle beggar who did it. :p
Even tho I don't do it for kills I usually end up getting a few.
In short, CE is good, emp is good, it all adds to the gaiety of planetside.
Yeah they're great early warning devices, dittos.
I don't see anything wrong with the EMP or the OS. With the sheer amount of CE in the game, something like the EMP is necessary. You can't expect every player to carry a dozen Jammers with him to counter all the CE people lay.
That's like saying you can't expect every player to carry around Anti Vehicle weapons. I quit a long time ago before players were able to cert everything. What's max BattleRank now? 35?
When I was playing you couldn't cert everything, so CE wasn't everywhere like it is today. You couldn't cert everything, and everyone didn't have 5 alt characters with CR5; people played differently, the game was different.
So why do we need the EMP then? ;)
There is a difference, and it's in the effort/reward ratio and the speed.
To lay a sizable mine field and a few spits and motions, say at a base entrance, requires probably two full CE loadouts. The Engy grabs his loadout, runs out there, lays each piece of CE (being very vulnerable while doing so), runs back in to resupply, and lays the rest. Total time effort: something like 1-2 mins.
To clear all that stuff, you need much less time even with Jammers. You'd probably throw like half a dozen of them in this case. Total time effort: like 10-20 secs.
EMP blast, it's as quick and easy as pulling the CUD and clicking on "EMP". Total time effort: about 3 secs.
Now, the reward isn't the same for both sides. The CE guy can hope to get a juicy kill or two from his stuff, while the attacker guy just wants to get from A to B without being blown or shot to pieces by auto-attacking minions. Also, most people don't enjoy when they have to fight more CE than actual people, so that's a point as well to keep gameplay fun.
But still, EMP ist just pretty damn powerful. Because even if you can't expect to get many kills from CE, the least you would hope for is to delay your opponent somewhat. But with EMP, even the delay is almost neglegible. And as has been pointed out, the EMP is a hard counter to CE, but cannot be countered in return. Its only downside is its cooldown (which isn't long either, 20 mins) - and just as with OS, balancing very powerful things just with a lengthy cooldown is almost never a good design choice. Doesn't matter if many people have it or not, although that naturally makes it worse.
CUD abilities destroy player creativity, destroys tactics, destroys options; push a button "weeeee", where's the fun in that?
Mix it up abit man, get your brown wings and learn to fly
That's just frontal assault in the air. What's a "brown wing"?
The difference is that CE is an inventory item that you can simply relay if it gets jammered/EMP, there is no prerequisite beyond the cert which in theory you can get at BR6. The CR4/5 EMP has taken a hell of a long time to earn and can only be used infrequently by a commander. The problem is when too many people gain that rank and EMP's and OS's are going off every 30 seconds.
Your hope of having them removed is a pipe dream, just because you don't want to relay CE every now and then. Be realistic and push for a limited amount of commanders per server at a time.. Something more like the WoW arena rankings where you have to work to maintain your Command rank by continually leading.
You mean more grinding for I-win buttons.
So you think players should GRIND COMMAND RANK, and not actually command. Yes that's another problem with I-win CUD abilities, it tempts players to GRIND COMMAND RANK and not actually command.
Anyone who thinks CR5's are "commanders" are kidding themselves. They aren't "commanders", they are grinders who have an additional set of weapons to play with: I-win buttons.
Players GRINDING for COMMAND RANK also warps the game for everyone else. Player GRINDING for COMMAND RANK only concern themselves with the final hack, not having a good battle, so you get lots of cheese. Don't deny it.
Orbital strikes actual enhance gameplay,
CUD abilities cheapen gameplay, and that includes the OS.
Rodel
2012-07-13, 06:52 PM
And for the 100th time, there is no counter to the OS, EMP OS, or mini OS.
So you encountered a squad using teamwork with multiple specializations and you thought you could delay them by only being an engineer... isn't the counter for an EOS generally to not be an engineer. Personally I always set up decoy mines and SFs to draw away the EOS. Buggsy, they just played it better than you there.
There are counters for these things. You just failed.
Buggsy
2012-07-13, 06:54 PM
So you encountered a squad using teamwork with multiple specializations and you thought you could delay them by only being an engineer... isn't the counter for an EOS generally to not be an engineer. Personally I always set up decoy mines and SFs to draw away the EOS. Buggsy, they just played it better than you there.
There are counters for these things. You just failed.
Wrong, pushing an I-win button cheapens game play for everyone, including the button-pushers...and there's no counter to any of the CUD I-win abilities.
Rodel
2012-07-13, 07:03 PM
Things you could have done-
Tank + engineer.
Your own orbital strike.
Liberator.
A friend
Boomers
not concentrating all your engineering together
It was a very good deployment of resources but your acting like engineering is a win button.
Crator
2012-07-13, 07:56 PM
It was a very good deployment of resources but your acting like engineering is a win button.
Buttons. Many of them. Not the same exact buttons either. Some on keyboard and mouse! That's his point I think....
Snipefrag
2012-07-14, 05:08 AM
This thread is getting stupid now, CE is an automated defensive tool.. The player doesn't actively have to do anything for it to be effective. The fact is you can lay a ton of it and go about your merry business, grab a reaver.. Spam anyone trying to EMP your CE... etc.
So in effect the EMP isn't a hard counter to a players class or play style, it's simply giving a commander the chance to level the playing field every twenty minutes.
Sure, it takes 1-2 minutes to relay CE.. But trust me, if PS2 does things right the opposition will run out of EMP's a lot quicker than you will run out of CE spam. Without EMP's gal drops would be a lot harder, taking a base equally so, making gameplay even more stale and less dynamic. Is that really the game you guys want to end up playing? Really glad you guys arnt calling this shots on stuff like this.
Dubious
2012-07-14, 06:49 AM
OS and EMP has gotten out of hand tho
during peak times there can be up to 200 CR5s on TR and many more CR4s...
Manily use CE for hack defence atm, to see where the enmy comes from
I dont expect kills, but a blown mine tells a lot
Tuomio
2012-07-14, 08:14 AM
This thread is getting stupid now, CE is an automated defensive tool.. The player doesn't actively have to do anything for it to be effective. The fact is you can lay a ton of it and go about your merry business, grab a reaver.. Spam anyone trying to EMP your CE... etc.
So in effect the EMP isn't a hard counter to a players class or play style, it's simply giving a commander the chance to level the playing field every twenty minutes.
Sure, it takes 1-2 minutes to relay CE.. But trust me, if PS2 does things right the opposition will run out of EMP's a lot quicker than you will run out of CE spam. Without EMP's gal drops would be a lot harder, taking a base equally so, making gameplay even more stale and less dynamic. Is that really the game you guys want to end up playing? Really glad you guys arnt calling this shots on stuff like this.
If defender is good and dynamic enough, its rightful that the attack is delayed or rendered unsuccessful even against odds. This is what is very hard to grasp when your playstyle only suits head-on collisions (harder head being the winning factor), when you do 100 repeated gal-drops and die every time.
It was not that the defender had static tools in his disposal, its YOU who acted like quake-bot and never got clever enough to get past his simple, "automated and static" nuisances.
OS is for quake bots, they are so scripted that tool is needed to remove "wall" that causes him to get stuck repeatedly.
Tool that perfectly removes vast array of other tools from the table reduces dynamics and creates static confrontations. EMP grenade or boomer mine is perfect example of devastating and effective tool, but one that cannot be used without opening other possibilities for counters. Its the essence of entertaining gaming, simple parts can create complex machinery that can entertain for decades.
Head-on collisions at backdoor or towers can entertain kids and domestic pets, but so can flushing down a roll of toilet paper. Why use 5 years of development time to create effect which could be solved with a cheap roll of paper?
Snipefrag
2012-07-14, 09:10 AM
If defender is good and dynamic enough, its rightful that the attack is delayed or rendered unsuccessful even against odds.
And you are suggesting that you cant do this at the moment in PS1? I'm going to interject that either you don't play PS1, you're not very good at it or are wanting CE to do EVERYTHING for you. Whats to stop you laying your CE and then patrolling the base in a MBT and killing any squishies that come close? dont have a mate? just get a in a god damn reaver and rocket spam them into submission. From the sounds of things you want to lay your CE, sit on a rampart and watch it mow down the opposition.
It was not that the defender had static tools in his disposal, its YOU who acted like quake-bot and never got clever enough to get past his simple, "automated and static" nuisances.
What the hell is a quake bot? They were clever enough to bring a CUD and to either have:
a) pushed you back far enough as to gain access to the area needed to blow the EMP, in PS1 this is no easy feat in a properly defended base
b) Organised transport/gal drop to gain access to said region
What have you done? run around for 2 minutes and dropped a load of mines.
OS is for quake bots, they are so scripted that tool is needed to remove "wall" that causes him to get stuck repeatedly.
I don't know if its just the blind hatred of the OS or if you really are too stupid to grasp this, the OS should not be an individual move for a player to use at his leisure to remove the 'wall' as you put it. Commanders. People who spend all their time organizing their outfits, their empire, picking targets directing the flow of battle should be the only people who have access to the ability. That is the plan in PS2. When you think of an OS in this context then it is balanced, every 2 and a half hours the commander can make the tactical decision to remove an obstacle on the battle field. These decisions WONT be taken lightly, because they have the ability to turn the tide of battle. This makes the battle field more dynamic, it gives an empire the opportunity to use the ability to change the battle. THAT is dynamic, the definition of the word.
PS1 is broken, there are too many CR5's. We know this, THAT is the problem. Not the actual move itself. I have two CR5's i have played this game since beta, i was one of the first 10 CR5's on the Konried server and because of that i can remember how the game was when there were 4-5 CR5's per faction on a server. It really worked, you saw an OS.. And you realized that was a pivotal moment. it was either going to really help your empire or fail, and you would give the CR5 stick for wasting it if it did. You seem stuck in the idea that play in PS2 should be balanced around an individual one to one encounter, the game never has been and never will be. Its a much more complicated game of rock paper scissors with many participants.
Tool that perfectly removes vast array of other tools from the table reduces dynamics and creates static confrontations.
In PS1 OS's only have the effect of making battles static because both sides each have a huge amount of them, you put an AMS in a CY.. it gets OSed over and over, you roll armor to defend a base.. vehicle term gets OS'ed over and over. The only thing deciding a battle ends up being numbers and the three way factor. What happens when you reduce the number of OS's around? They can become the spear head of attack/defence which can decide a battle ADDING to the dynamic nature of the game.
If you have a good commander with you attacking a base and the opposition doesn't a telling OS might clear the CY/turrents/mines for armor to roll in, and then you can park up your gal/AMS and enjoy your stay. Likewise if your commander is defending an important base he can repel an attack with a telling OS. How is this not dynamic? It adds another variable into the possible outcome of the battle.. THAT is the definition of dynamic.
Head-on collisions at backdoor or towers can entertain kids and domestic pets, but so can flushing down a roll of toilet paper. Why use 5 years of development time to create effect which could be solved with a cheap roll of paper?
Stop talking garbage, try using logic and reason to validate your points not puerile nonsense.
Buggsy
2012-07-14, 06:06 PM
This thread is getting stupid now, CE is an automated defensive tool..
No it's not an "automated defensive tool", it has to be babysat to work properly.
It sure beats the CUD I-win buttons. And I'm not paying $15 a month to play Rock-Paper-Scissors.
Things you could have done-
Tank + engineer.
Too many trees
Your own orbital strike.
Retarded
Liberator.
Bomb my own CE?
A friend
Whatever
Boomers
What about them, they wouldn't have made a difference, the point is to completly remove the OS from the game, not attempt to counter it like some lameass retard.
not concentrating all your engineering together
Hey I have an idea, how about not concentrating on your I-win CUD abilities altogether.
It was a very good deployment of resources but your acting like engineering is a win button.
At least it was something different other than the typical run around like a 5 year old retard.
Hey wanna know why there are only like 20 guys playing PS1 right now? Cause what you guys like, sucks for everyone else. Everyone else left a long time ago; all the normal people that is.
CUD abilities is something a retard would come up with for a single player game.
vVRedOctoberVv
2012-07-14, 08:45 PM
If you're so dissatisfied that you had to make an emo/rage/whine "I quit" thread... Why are you still here, exactly? You just come off as difficult and or whiney and I seriously doubt you would ever be satisfied with anything. You're just "a complainer", as far as I can see.
ShockFC
2012-07-14, 08:45 PM
I see two poplocks on prime time. Sounds like you have no idea how to play your role correctly. I've seen plenty of support players do just fine, doing exactly what you do.
Effective
2012-07-14, 10:29 PM
I have now seen it all, EMP's are being complained about.
CE is easy to use, fast to relay. Removing EMP's altogether is not the correct answer to a "problem" such as this.
igster
2012-07-15, 04:18 AM
what they said++
Please now let this thread die - it doesnt deserve any more attention but it seems the op will not let it die.
Snipefrag
2012-07-15, 04:38 AM
Alright, i'll give up trying to explain to OP. In the words of The D, it seems he doesn't have the cognitive capacity to understand the wider picture. Enjoy CoD/BF3 or whatever boring shooter you feel comfortable with.
/thread
Duckforceone
2012-07-15, 06:41 AM
seen from a game design perspective, the emp is way too overpowered.
It doesn't require you to specialize so you can't do other functions.
It's not like getting into an AA max so you are great against air, but suck against anything else.
That's one very negative about it.
20 min reuse timer on something that clears out huge defensive areas?
So you can use one on each single assault you do. It can easily take 20 mins to take a base if you stay and clean up.
That's a second very negative
No counter
That's a third very negative.
I'm sorry, whatever arguments you try, from a game design perspective, this is just bad. And this is not even taking into account that everyone and their dog has access to this now.
Effective
2012-07-15, 07:36 AM
seen from a game design perspective, the emp is way too overpowered.
It doesn't require you to specialize so you can't do other functions.
It's not like getting into an AA max so you are great against air, but suck against anything else.
That's one very negative about it.
20 min reuse timer on something that clears out huge defensive areas?
So you can use one on each single assault you do. It can easily take 20 mins to take a base if you stay and clean up.
That's a second very negative
No counter
That's a third very negative.
I'm sorry, whatever arguments you try, from a game design perspective, this is just bad. And this is not even taking into account that everyone and their dog has access to this now.
Except CE is incredibly overpowered in it's own way. Most people just spam CE and think they're being useful. When generally they're making it only moderately annoying as opposed to nigh impossible to pass without and EMP.
Especially now when everyone has CE. 1 emp every 20 minutes? I can relay all that CE in 3-5 minutes. Congratz that EMP was worthless. Nevermind CE only blows up mines. It doesn't destroy spitfire turrets.
Nevermind that with properly placed spitfire turrets, the guy who's trying to EMP bailing from an aircraft will die before he hits the ground.
Try to break a well prepared base hold/defense without a EMP, it's almost impossible, especially if pops are even/base is an interlink.
igster
2012-07-15, 07:40 AM
BTW the ones telling you that EMPs are not overpowered generally are not theorycrafting - it is from experience of playing with/against CE.
Accuser
2012-07-15, 09:22 AM
The problem is that CE became too powerful, and then EMP had to be powerful to cancel it out. With any luck, PS2 will allow only 1 or 2 automated turrets per person and EMP won't be necessary in the first place.
Buggsy
2012-07-15, 06:36 PM
The problem is that CE became too powerful, and then EMP had to be powerful to cancel it out. With any luck, PS2 will allow only 1 or 2 automated turrets per person and EMP won't be necessary in the first place.
CE wasn't too powerful when I played it, and CUD abilities haven't changed one bit since release they didn't get "more powerful".
You nerf CE then you nerf defense, and all tactics devolves into one thing and one thing only: Frontal Assault. Where both sides just charge each other, randomly, with no structure, foresight, and planning whatsoever.
Except CE is incredibly overpowered in it's own way. Most people just spam CE and think they're being useful. When generally they're making it only moderately annoying as opposed to nigh impossible to pass without and EMP.
Especially now when everyone has CE. 1 emp every 20 minutes? I can relay all that CE in 3-5 minutes. Congratz that EMP was worthless. Nevermind CE only blows up mines. It doesn't destroy spitfire turrets.
Nevermind that with properly placed spitfire turrets, the guy who's trying to EMP bailing from an aircraft will die before he hits the ground.
Try to break a well prepared base hold/defense without a EMP, it's almost impossible, especially if pops are even/base is an interlink.
I stopped playing before "CE is incredibly powered." Which by the way it is not. You just THINK CE is incredibly overpowered because everyone can cert everything now, and every single character in this game throws mines out everywhere now. The problem isn't the CE, the problem is having maximum command rank being too high.
Your brain is replacing "incredibly annoying" with "incredibly overpowered", because it is annoying to have a mine everywhere you step.
Alright, i'll give up trying to explain to OP. In the words of The D, it seems he doesn't have the cognitive capacity to understand the wider picture. Enjoy CoD/BF3 or whatever boring shooter you feel comfortable with.
/thread
People like you are making PS2 into a COD/BF3 clone.
/thread
what they said++
Please now let this thread die - it doesnt deserve any more attention but it seems the op will not let it die.
Die like PS1 die?
I have now seen it all, EMP's are being complained about.
CE is easy to use, fast to relay. Removing EMP's altogether is not the correct answer to a "problem" such as this.
Removing CUD abilities would have saved PS1. There'd be 10X more players right now in PS1 if you I-win button trolls hadn't driven everyone away.
I see two poplocks on prime time. Sounds like you have no idea how to play your role correctly. I've seen plenty of support players do just fine, doing exactly what you do.
That's only because they want into PS2 beta, yes people are that bored.
1 year ago you couldn't get a poplock anywhere.
If you're so dissatisfied that you had to make an emo/rage/whine "I quit" thread... Why are you still here, exactly? You just come off as difficult and or whiney and I seriously doubt you would ever be satisfied with anything. You're just "a complainer", as far as I can see.
I'm here to help you guys not make the same mistake, or say "I told you so," when you do.
I told you so, PS1 has been dead for over 5 years.
Effective
2012-07-15, 10:47 PM
I stopped playing before "CE is incredibly powered." Which by the way it is not. You just THINK CE is incredibly overpowered because everyone can cert everything now, and every single character in this game throws mines out everywhere now. The problem isn't the CE, the problem is having maximum command rank being too high.
Your brain is replacing "incredibly annoying" with "incredibly overpowered", because it is annoying to have a mine everywhere you step.
Removing CUD abilities would have saved PS1. There'd be 10X more players right now in PS1 if you I-win button trolls hadn't driven everyone away.
No it is, you just literally have no idea what you're doing when it comes to CE. No, I've ALWAYS thought CE was incredibly strong, I have it certed ON EVERY character I've made, and I've made a lot of them across all 3 empires. It's simply has far to much versatility as a cert. Traps, warning system, free AOE instakill explosive, etc.
If you read what I previously posted, most people just randomly throw CE around, like yourself and think they're being useful, they don't use CE to it's maximum potential to support what they as a player can do.
If more people used CE like in an actually intelligent manner, SOE might have realized how retarded it was to buff CE like they did. I've heard there will be no automated turrets in PS2, which will be amazing.
Actually if they had never buffed CE, AA, Reaver's armor (and nerfed aircraft's ability to farm infantry), rebalanced/redesigned max units. The pops would be much higher. The CUD abilities have NEVER been a problem. The only problem is that over time more people get access to them. There have been several possible solutions thrown at (such as creating a command cert system and certing which cud abilities you'd want, though more would need to be created), or making a cr5 constantly have to keep SL inorder to keep his CR.
I could go on with the "what made planetside die". Clientside induced warping, hackers during the trial account days, poorly designed bases that are claustrophobic, special assault being retarded easy to use. BFR's still slowing down combat despite being next to worthless. Hell third person did more damage then EMP's have ever done
So yeah, the EMP from a CUD itself isn't a problem. Why don't you go complain about the bangbus instead, it can EMP like every 3-5 minutes. Or how about SS, it completely lets you avoid spitfires and motion sensors.
vVRedOctoberVv
2012-07-16, 09:03 PM
@Buggsy
Really? PS1 is dead because of the couple of things you personally didn't like? I thought PS1 was largely dead because it was a decade old. Now, I'm sure the blunders I've heard about all contributed to it... But it's a decade old. Even five years ago, it was still pretty old! And yes, a few games are still up and running, like EverQuest, but they have greatly diminished populations, too.
From my standpoint, a bigger complaint than the gameplay is the extremely dated graphics, the clunky hitboxes, and the lack of optimisation, all three of which ALSO contributed to its demise.
Buggsy
2012-07-18, 10:44 PM
@Buggsy
Really? PS1 is dead because of the couple of things you personally didn't like? I thought PS1 was largely dead because it was a decade old. Now, I'm sure the blunders I've heard about all contributed to it... But it's a decade old. Even five years ago, it was still pretty old! And yes, a few games are still up and running, like EverQuest, but they have greatly diminished populations, too.
From my standpoint, a bigger complaint than the gameplay is the extremely dated graphics, the clunky hitboxes, and the lack of optimisation, all three of which ALSO contributed to its demise.
Diablo 2 isn't dead and it came out years before PS1.
No it is, you just literally have no idea what you're doing when it comes to CE. No, I've ALWAYS thought CE was incredibly strong, I have it certed ON EVERY character I've made,
What part of, "Combat Rank is too high so you can cert everything" don't you understand?
Effective
2012-07-18, 11:12 PM
What part of, "Combat Rank is too high so you can cert everything" don't you understand?
What part of "I always thought CE was powerful" don't you understand?
Buggsy
2012-07-19, 03:43 AM
What part of "I always thought CE was powerful" don't you understand?
It wouldn't have been too powerful if Battle Rank wasn't so high.
Noxey
2012-07-19, 06:26 AM
I told you so, PS1 has been dead for over 5 years.
Compared to a year or two ago PS is actually really active, interest in PS2 has seen a massive surge in pop, its the most active Gemini has ever been, or at least the most active I have ever seen it.
Shame after 9 years its still buggy as fuark :love:
Buggsy
2012-07-19, 07:05 AM
Compared to a year or two ago PS is actually really active, interest in PS2 has seen a massive surge in pop, its the most active Gemini has ever been, or at least the most active I have ever seen it.
Shame after 9 years its still buggy as fuark :love:
They're trying to get beta keys.
Snipefrag
2012-07-19, 09:59 AM
Buggsy, i am disappointed in you. Let this terrible ill thought out thread die.
I love how you are now saying too many people with CE and battle rank going too high is why CE is too powerful/annoying. but at the same time refuse to accept the reverse, that EMP is also powerful/annoying because there are too many people with CR4-5. Don't you see the Hypocrisy in that? or are you really that dense?
Either way someone who mistakenly calls 'Battle Rank' 'Combat Rank' in my books hasn't played PS enough to have a valid opinion. Did you even reach BR20? Get over 2k kills? I doubt it.
Effective
2012-07-19, 02:27 PM
It wouldn't have been too powerful if Battle Rank wasn't so high.
No, it's always been strong, meaning before br40. People just dont know to maximize it's potential.
Buggsy
2012-07-20, 05:50 PM
No, it's always been strong, meaning before br40. People just dont know to maximize it's potential.
Actually the problem was BattleRank was too high.
Buggsy, i am disappointed in you. Let this terrible ill thought out thread die.
I love how you are now saying too many people with CE and battle rank going too high is why CE is too powerful/annoying. but at the same time refuse to accept the reverse, that EMP is also powerful/annoying because there are too many people with CR4-5. Don't you see the Hypocrisy in that? or are you really that dense?
No it's not hypocritical cause I've consistently been saying the CUD abilities should be completely removed, not simply have the timer increased.
Effective
2012-07-24, 12:57 AM
Actually the problem was BattleRank was too high.
Negative ghostrider. People like you simply think "Durrr going to spamz my CE".
ShockFC
2012-07-24, 08:51 PM
Get good
Xenostalker
2012-07-25, 01:48 AM
Let's hope OS isn't in PS2....
I agree with said hope. Ruins any attempt at fortifying a position without any real effort (point laser and press mouse button).
If you want to destroy a position, get some liberators and form a bombing run - this is effort.
Actually. OS is a terrible gameplay element. I hate seeing it in PS1 as it is.
Crator
2012-07-25, 11:25 AM
I agree with said hope. Ruins any attempt at fortifying a position without any real effort (point laser and press mouse button).
If you want to destroy a position, get some liberators and form a bombing run - this is effort.
Actually. OS is a terrible gameplay element. I hate seeing it in PS1 as it is.
While I agree I think it could still be a fun mechanic as long as the OS is limited in it's use. And, there's no hope for not having it cause they already said it will be back....
From the PS2 Info Thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=37350):
• How will the Command System function? Commanding is not based on command rank like in Planetside. Rather commanding is based upon a cert tree within all of the other certifications. In order to be a deeply specialized commander you need to give up some other perks. Also, squad leaders and commanders will be able to create “missions (think quests from an RPG) that average players can follow in order to receive bonus experience. The orbital strike is making a return.
Degrifter
2012-07-25, 01:23 PM
less QQ more pew pew
vVRedOctoberVv
2012-07-25, 01:39 PM
@Degrifter
I disagree. MOAR TEARZ
(former Eve low-sec pirate speaking)
! C0113C7 7H3M !N V!A15! 7H3Y CUR3 l8 5TA63 CANC3R & 3R3C7!13 DY5FUNC7!0N!
Tatwi
2012-07-26, 03:55 AM
SOE should make Planetside totally free to play, with the exception that OS cost 25 cents each. That will either make SOE very rich or it will tone down the use of OS a bit. There just aren't enough fights to justify having an ability like that, especially when so many people can use the ability. At this point in the game, OS just takes away from the action and fun.
Dubious
2012-07-26, 04:12 AM
PS1 should be kept alive and maybe implent a store for it so one can buy stuff like a OS every 3 hours with needed rank and a "free" one like now, every 12 hour
there is so much money to get from PS1 still
Buggsy
2012-07-27, 03:53 AM
Negative ghostrider. People like you simply think "Durrr going to spamz my CE".
Durrr, that's how you create a defensive position. You know what defense is right? Yeah yeah I know you think it is running around shooting stuff, but truly that's not it.
MCYRook
2012-07-27, 06:32 AM
Just stopping by to say that the arguments on both sides here have become increasingly stupid.
Would not read again.
ShockFC
2012-07-27, 10:17 AM
Durrr, that's how you create a defensive position. You know what defense is right? Yeah yeah I know you think it is running around shooting stuff, but truly that's not it.
You're a good troll.
That or you don't get what effect is saying at all.
Huntsab
2012-07-27, 03:30 PM
I can clear a mine field in seconds, with jammers. Would you unsub if you witness me throwing them on your precious CE? OS's do have a counter it is called situational awareness (you do get a warning) and/or Surge. I bet you have Pshield. Perhaps free up that implant slot for surge :)
p0intman
2012-07-27, 03:41 PM
OP is a massive idiot, I see. People like him want PS2 to be CoD/BF3. GTFO please, OP. I agree mostly with Effective.
Buggsy
2012-07-28, 12:22 AM
OP is a massive idiot, I see. People like him want PS2 to be CoD/BF3. GTFO please, OP. I agree mostly with Effective.
Actually hitting a button and killing players in a radius is what you do in COD/BF2. And welcome to the ignore list.
I can clear a mine field in seconds, with jammers. Would you unsub if you witness me throwing them on your precious CE? OS's do have a counter it is called situational awareness (you do get a warning) and/or Surge. I bet you have Pshield. Perhaps free up that implant slot for surge :)
Fine then clear mines in seconds with jammers, you don't need the CUD I-win buttons.
You're a good troll.
That or you don't get what effect is saying at all.
He's saying "Durrrr" allot.
p0intman
2012-07-28, 01:50 AM
Actually hitting a button and killing players in a radius is what you do in COD/BF2. And welcome to the ignore list.
Fine then clear mines in seconds with jammers, you don't need the CUD I-win buttons.
He's saying "Durrrr" allot.
I'm sorry, but you have *no idea* wtf you're talking about. I *earned* my backpack and my OS. I didn't go on a killstreak to get it. I *led* squads and called shots over a long period of time over the course of at least a year. I *earned* the respect of other outfit and squad leaders. Mind you, even if the area you are in gets OS'd, unless you're AT who get stuck at the back door doing high altitude galdrops and stupid max crashes without a door opener, you can STILL escape it with surge. You have to be *incompetent* or just not paying attention or spawning at a busy ams to get OS'd.
You have to be literally an idiot to take offense to it.
igster
2012-07-28, 03:47 AM
This thread deserves to be closed. Just look how long it has been bubbling along for 'why i quit ps1'
Endless QQ diatribe by a player who literally has hardly played the game (from my estimation probably not more than br14 and nowhere near cr5) about why the game he has no idea how to play sucks.
I don't discount less experienced players opinions generally, however, when someone tries to imply that he has an authoritative opinion on something - then you better have sufficient experience to back up that authoritative opinion.
Here is a quote from the OP from a darkfall forum which exhibits the sum of his knowledge about PS1 and is the reason why, imho, he really isn't sufficiently experienced and qualified to judge the CE/OS/EMP gameplay mechanics.
Planetside has the harshest death penalty. You die, you lose everything. But it is not considered griefing or ganking because it doesn't take you a month to grind for your gear.
I played planetside for about 4 months, but I quit because of orbital strikes. The EMP kind which destroys all CE cause someone grinded for their CR rank. CR rank is Command Rating rank, not death ray from the sky rank.
(Last edited by buggsy; 02-12-2009 at 03:40 PM..)
source (http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=125099&page=2)
4 months in a game compared to more experienced players like effective (9 years i suspect) gives you some idea of the relative weight I give to the opinions expressed
Quite simply - you have to play the game to know about the gameplay mechanics and balance. You might like to talk on forums a lot - however - play the game more than typing on forums - you've been whining about this on a number of forums for what 3 years when you played the game for only 4 months...
Misquoting Winston Churchil directly
To war-war is always better than to jaw-jaw
Pointless negative discussion being kept alive by the OP always wanting to have the last word.
Xenostalker
2012-07-28, 06:26 AM
SOE should make Planetside totally free to play, with the exception that OS cost 25 cents each. That will either make SOE very rich or it will tone down the use of OS a bit. There just aren't enough fights to justify having an ability like that, especially when so many people can use the ability. At this point in the game, OS just takes away from the action and fun.
Yep. That's about the only flaw I personally see in the game right now. Just got done being OS'd about 5 or 6 times by TR over one base.
Other flaw would be the lasher (piece crap weapon) but... meh. PS1 is still best MMOFPS by far.
Effective
2012-07-28, 10:07 PM
This thread is still going?
PS. and yes, I've played on and off for since august of 2003 :P .
EMP's and OS's are fine themselves, the only thing wrong is the number of people who have them.
Also nerf CE and let EMP's be used in the caves from cud's.
Buggsy
2012-07-28, 10:55 PM
This thread deserves to be closed. Just look how long it has been bubbling along for 'why i quit ps1'
Endless QQ diatribe by a player who literally has hardly played the game (from my estimation probably not more than br14 and nowhere near cr5) about why the game he has no idea how to play sucks.
I don't discount less experienced players opinions generally, however, when someone tries to imply that he has an authoritative opinion on something - then you better have sufficient experience to back up that authoritative opinion.
Here is a quote from the OP from a darkfall forum which exhibits the sum of his knowledge about PS1 and is the reason why, imho, he really isn't sufficiently experienced and qualified to judge the CE/OS/EMP gameplay mechanics.
4 months in a game compared to more experienced players like effective (9 years i suspect) gives you some idea of the relative weight I give to the opinions expressed
Beach Boys - I Get Around - YouTube
No actually people who have stuck around for 9 years have no idea what is fun. They're the types that grind CR for their I-win buttons and drive the other 90% customers away.
If SONY wants to pander to the 10%, while driving away the other 90%, then by all means enjoy your ghost town of a MMOFPS just like in PS1.
And I think I played for like 6 months, not 4 months.
Darkfall = failboat MMORPG, a greifer's paradise. I told you so, I told you so, ah ah I told you so.
Also nerf CE and let EMP's be used in the caves from cud's.
Buff CE, remove CUD abilities completely.
Effective
2012-07-28, 11:17 PM
No actually people who have stuck around for 9 years have no idea what is fun. They're the types that grind CR for their I-win buttons and drive the other 90% customers away.
If SONY wants to pander to the 10%, while driving away the other 90%, then by all means enjoy your ghost town of a MMOFPS just like in PS1.
And I think I played for like 6 months, not 4 months.
Darkfall = failboat MMORPG, a greifer's paradise. I told you so, I told you so, ah ah I told you so.
Buff CE, remove CUD abilities completely.
You've played for 6 months, and that gives you the knowledge on how to play a layered game like planetside? l o l.
I'll tell you what, I'll ce a base of my choice, and you have to try and get inside with me defending. I'll go ahead and let you know ahead of time, that it won't happen without an EMP.
Buggsy
2012-07-28, 11:34 PM
You've played for 6 months, and that gives you the knowledge on how to play a layered game like planetside? l o l.
I'll tell you what, I'll ce a base of my choice, and you have to try and get inside with me defending. I'll go ahead and let you know ahead of time, that it won't happen without an EMP.
The defender is suppose to have an advantage. That's the way war has been working for thousands of years. And that's why indirect artillery was invented. You take away all of this and all you've got left is a random brawl.
Effective
2012-07-29, 12:51 AM
The defender is suppose to have an advantage. That's the way war has been working for thousands of years. And that's why indirect artillery was invented. You take away all of this and all you've got left is a random brawl.
Except this a game, defense is supposed to be strong yes, but properly layed CE is impossible to get through with even population. Also, OS = indirect artillery, that can only be used once every 6 hours.
Buggsy
2012-07-29, 01:11 AM
Except this a game, defense is supposed to be strong yes, but properly layed CE is impossible to get through with even population. Also, OS = indirect artillery, that can only be used once every 6 hours.
OS is an I-win button, not artillery. It's invalid. And it doesn't matter if it's on a 6 hour timer.
A proper defense is easy to get through with massed flails, and a properly timed follow up offense.
Effective
2012-07-29, 01:30 AM
OS is an I-win button, not artillery. It's invalid. And it doesn't matter if it's on a 6 hour timer.
A proper defense is easy to get through with massed flails, and a properly timed follow up offense.
The OS is a 6 hour timer, it takes 1 minute to replace anything it killed.
It takes time to get massed flails setup, on top of also requiring a cavelock/mod to even pull them. Then of course you actually have to have enemies already pushed into the CY for them to be any real use. If the base your pushing already has vehicles out, even if you flail the courtyard out, you still won't push in easily, on top of the fact you're missing however many people you have manning the flails.
Btw, flails are more of an i win button then an OS.
Buggsy
2012-07-29, 01:33 AM
The OS is a 6 hour timer, it takes 1 minute to replace anything it killed.
Irrelevant. I-win buttons have no place in a FPS game.
It takes time to get massed flails setup, on top of also requiring a cavelock/mod to even pull them. Then of course you actually have to have enemies already pushed into the CY for them to be any real use. If the base your pushing already has vehicles out, even if you flail the courtyard out, you still won't push in easily, on top of the fact you're missing however many people you have manning the flails.
Btw, flails are more of an i win button then an OS.
Wrong, flails are not an I-win button, it takes foresight, planning, cooperation to use them and they can be easily countered if there wasn't a warp bubble they could run to which is why they should be immobile setups in PS2.
Effective
2012-07-29, 05:00 AM
It doesn't equate to an I-win button, it's a tool that has nothing wrong with it.
And no, flails don't require any such thing, it takes a minute to get it deployed and setup a waypoint and a few test shots to get it lined up, and once you get going, you can tape the mouse button down and go make a sandwich (something I did once, came back to 20 kills from vpad camping). It's an I win button.
igster
2012-07-29, 05:56 AM
Really.... A beach boy video... [long silence]
Oh and flails are skilled.
*shakes head*
Blinded by Theorycrafting
p0intman
2012-07-29, 12:30 PM
It doesn't equate to an I-win button, it's a tool that has nothing wrong with it.
And no, flails don't require any such thing, it takes a minute to get it deployed and setup a waypoint and a few test shots to get it lined up, and once you get going, you can tape the mouse button down and go make a sandwich (something I did once, came back to 20 kills from vpad camping). It's an I win button.
I KNEW IT! TR CAN'T DO ANYTHING BUT CAMP VPADS!
Oh and os being an iwin button? lmfao
Flail not an iwin button? lmfao
I almost hope this doesnt get locked so i can see him continually made a fool.
Crator
2012-07-30, 09:27 AM
Making a fool out of oneself in this degree doesn't deserve a thread lock does it? ;)
p0intman
2012-07-30, 09:32 AM
Making a fool out of oneself in this degree doesn't deserve a thread lock does it? ;)
possibly the single funniest thread on the entire forum.
CheeZeX
2012-07-30, 03:42 PM
I think OS's themselves are fine, just the number of OS's available to a faction is the OP part.
I myself have 5 CR5's, 4 of which are NC. So in the event that I really, really, don't like a particular AA max sitting on a ridge, I can just OS him over and over and over.
Huntsab
2012-07-30, 04:40 PM
You are saying an Orbital Strike is an I-win button. Hahahahahahahaha. I get hit by orbital strikes only if I am drunk, have my music up too loud and cannot hear the warning, or I am spawning into an AMS and I get pwned on materialising.
Use your hearing, and surge = counter. Very simple. Perhaps you should attempt to use my advice and see for yourself :)
ringring
2012-07-30, 05:26 PM
You are saying an Orbital Strike is an I-win button. Hahahahahahahaha. I get hit by orbital strikes only if I am drunk, have my music up too loud and cannot hear the warning, or I am spawning into an AMS and I get pwned on materialising.
Use your hearing, and surge = counter. Very simple. Perhaps you should attempt to use my advice and see for yourself :)
You are correct sir!
Mostly OS's are used as a tactical strike, to take out an ams for instance.
Elays
2012-07-30, 08:46 PM
So I've been following the humor of this thread for some time, but I really must say something.
Dear Buggsy,
Declaring anything "irrelevant" in your opinion does not make it so.
Declaring anything "I-win" does not make it so.
You are dismissing entirely valid and reasonable arguments about tactical balance because you, and you alone, consider them "I-win" or "irrelevant"
Therefore, you no longer have any logical structure to your argument, let alone credibility. If you wish to carry on such debate in the future, I suggest you learn how to so in a more structured and reasonable fashion.
Sincerely,
Elays
Tactical Pony
2012-07-31, 12:21 PM
ive tea bagged so many fools crouched behind a tree with their cud out and killed them, seems like a counter to me.
the CR system having no form of required maintainence (you dont have to stay on say the top 10 for the leaderboards or whatever) is what's broken, EMP/OS is only somewhat overbearing considdering it runs off it's own resources (meaning you dont lose an implant slot or cert points for it) but other than that the idea is fine, learn to play.
Now, the real problem, these super steroid flying mike tyson reavers got way overbuffed.
I remember getting killed by one after making 2 direct unguided hits and one camera splash hit using a deci. He was getting hit by a cerb I put down when I saw him coming too so he had like a sliver of health left when he got me. while I was respawning he said he was impressed and noted that if it were pre buff I would have won.
Baneblade
2012-07-31, 02:01 PM
Speaking as someone who 'earned' CR5pam the hard way, I wouldn't miss the OS leaving us for good.
Huntsab
2012-07-31, 03:18 PM
Too many VS maxes, too many Scat maxes, too much thumper and plasma spam and too many noobs camping the spawns. I have never heard an OS, which you can easily out run and has a huge timer, being called over powered before. I suppose the MCG is over powered next and heaven forbid anyone who actually hits their Lasher orbs
ArmedZealot
2012-07-31, 05:53 PM
Too many VS maxes, too many Scat maxes, too much thumper and plasma spam and too many noobs camping the spawns. I have never heard an OS, which you can easily out run and has a huge timer, being called over powered before. I suppose the MCG is over powered next and heaven forbid anyone who actually hits their Lasher orbs
How long have you been playing Planetside?
zjlhyking
2012-08-01, 11:17 AM
GOOD!
Huntsab
2012-08-01, 05:50 PM
I have been playing since 2005 on and off
LtWeulf
2012-08-01, 06:03 PM
I just thought the price was too much. -.-
Baneblade
2012-08-01, 08:42 PM
HO scale boo yeah.
TheDAWinz
2012-08-01, 09:05 PM
You know how stupid Star Wars movies would have looked if Storm Troopers just randomly appeared all over the place?
"Looks like you managed to cut off our only escape route."
"Maybe you'd like it back in your cell Princess."
5 storm troopers spawn in behind them. OH yeah that would look so cool.
You do realize the stormies were under direct orders to let them go right? They could of done just that. Learn 2 cannon.
Buggsy
2012-08-02, 12:37 PM
It doesn't equate to an I-win button, it's a tool that has nothing wrong with it.
All CUD abilities are I-win buttons, including the OS.
And no, flails don't require any such thing, it takes a minute to get it deployed and setup a waypoint and a few test shots to get it lined up, and once you get going, you can tape the mouse button down and go make a sandwich (something I did once, came back to 20 kills from vpad camping). It's an I win button.
You can also drive a tank up to an enemy vpad and camp it, tape mouse button down.
CUD = I-win button
Tanks = Not an I-win button
I think OS's themselves are fine, just the number of OS's available to a faction is the OP part.
I myself have 5 CR5's, 4 of which are NC. So in the event that I really, really, don't like a particular AA max sitting on a ridge, I can just OS him over and over and over.
Apparently that was the "endgame" of PS1, grind more CR5's. It's why I didn't participate in the "endgame" and unsubbed after about 6 months, wasn't interested.
You are saying an Orbital Strike is an I-win button. Hahahahahahahaha. I get hit by orbital strikes only if I am drunk, have my music up too loud and cannot hear the warning, or I am spawning into an AMS and I get pwned on materialising.
Use your hearing, and surge = counter. Very simple. Perhaps you should attempt to use my advice and see for yourself :)
Cool story brah but dying to an OS isn't the problem, and I never said it was. I'm talking about all CUD abilities including the EMP blast and reveal enemies.
You are correct sir!
Mostly OS's are used as a tactical strike, to take out an ams for instance.
Sure we can all sit around and push buttons, you know like how the PS2 beta video shows testers spawning planes by using beta commands; hit a button spawn a plane. An enemy 100 feet off can see you hitting your spawn plane button, and they can hit their OS button and destroy that plane. Then you can hit your Spawn Plane button again, and the enemy can hit their OS button again. How exciting, I'm sure it sounds exciting to you. It would be all "tactical" and stuff.
ive tea bagged so many fools crouched behind a tree with their cud out and killed them, seems like a counter to me.
wow, that's some deep thoughts, you tea bagged folks. Thank you for sharing this.
You do realize the stormies were under direct orders to let them go right? They could of done just that. Learn 2 cannon.
lol ...
Sentrosi
2012-08-02, 12:59 PM
Apparently that was the "endgame" of PS1, grind more CR5's. It's why I didn't participate in the "endgame" and unsubbed after about 6 months, wasn't interested.
Use of the word 'endgame' in a thread about a FPS makes any of your arguments against Planetside null and void.
Buggsy
2012-08-02, 01:05 PM
Use of the word 'endgame' in a thread about a FPS makes any of your arguments against Planetside null and void.
Anything that involves leveling up has an "endgame".
This thread has run its course I think. Only posts I see the past 5 pages are I WIN or OS sucks.
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