A short note on dying

[thegreekboy]

There's been alot of talk on these forums about important gameplay mechanics, teamplay mechanics, gun mechanics, vehicles mechanics, and every other type of mechanic in between. What I have seen a disturbing lack of, however, is talk about one of the most important mechanics in any game that all of us encounter all too often- death.

So, from what I hear and see, in PS2, you will die. Alot. This means that death should be tolerable. Now what do I mean by "tolerable"? I mean that you shouldn't feel as though your death doesn't matter, but you should also not want to throw your mouse through your monitor every time you die.

Now for the examples, every one of us is familiar with the CoD series. Those games are the perfect examples of the worst death system in any game ever made, ever. Forgive me for asking you to do this, but please watch this example.

Chris Archie MW2 Gameplay/Commentary - YouTube

.....and as another bad example of dying/spawning, this next one

Ghost Recon: Future Soldier Multiplayer Gameplay - Live Commentary (Beta) - YouTube

Notice how it has all of the things that make dying both frustrating, and in other instances, not matter at all. First off, it has the dreaded "bloody screen so real", to such an extent that it severely obscures your vision whenever you are close to death, meaning that whenever you die, you can't see ANYTHING, which adds to the frustration of you dying in the first place.

Second, it offers no penalty to death, meaning that when you die, you don't think twice about it. Death should make you ask questions, among these "What did I do wrong?" and "How do I correct this?". Penalty can be in the form of a spawn timer, a walk back to the battle, or even the loss of the battle, but the catch is that the penalty cannot be too great, in which case you come to number 3....

CoD deaths add too much of a penalty, in certain situations. There are times in the CoD games when you have just killed 5 people in a row, and you just need that sixth to get that 1337 gunship and....you die. That stimulates a response in us that can be compared to someone teasing a small child with candy. You make them believe they can have the candy, then you take it away. It makes them, and you, angry.
This can also take many forms. For example, in Ghost Recon: Future Soldier (which is the second worse game of all time relating to death rage), if you and 1 other guy are defending an objective, and you die, you know for a fact that you lost that objective, because that other guy can't defend it on his own, and you can't get back to it in time. That, combined with the TERRIBLE bloody screen, makes you want to quit every time you die, which should NOT happen.

tl;dr PS2 needs to have a balance between the two extremes, death should make you think about why you died and how not to die in the future, while also giving you sufficient penalty. The penalty, however should not be too great as to make you feel as though your death was a crippling blow and make you want to quit.

Wow, that was alot longer that I thought it would be :lol:

[Stardouser]

Death is its own penalty and doesn't need enhanced spawn timers.

However...

There are times in the CoD games when you have just killed 5 people in a row, and you just need that sixth to get that 1337 gunship and....you die


Please tell me you're not treating killstreaks as a good thing?

[thegreekboy]

Death is its own penalty and doesn't need enhanced spawn timers.

However...


Please tell me you're not treating killstreaks as a good thing?

I'm sorry I wan't clearer. What I'm saying is that killstreaks are a gameplay mechanic that contributes to rage upon death to to the "teasing a child with candy" effect.

Also, I wasn't saying that we need enhanced spawn timers, I was instead suggesting that if one was to be implemented, it cannot cross a certain line as to make you mad upon dying.

[GreatMazinkaise]

Yeah, PS2's lack of jam is a relief (especially if we can turn off that stupid red screen border), no doubt helped by the Teen rating they're shooting for.

[SUBARU]

I dont like dying, and i dont plan on dying alot

[thegreekboy]

I dont like dying, and i dont plan on dying alot

Theres a difference between not liking dying and wanting to quit when you do. :D

[Zebasiz]

From what we've seen on the videos death does have a timer from 4 to 7 odd seconds or so. No skipping to directly spawn. You could be raised but that takes a few seconds as well. And you don't just spawn right in the midst of battle like in these games. Yeah there's squad spawn every few minutes. But other than that you have to hope someone set up a spawn in or just outside the base or your side is holding a spawn point near the base. So it does have a cost of you having to get back to the fight after spawn.

[Littleman]

Believe it or not, free to play games don't need to be rated by the ESRB. It's mostly there for in-store retail and to keep the government from monitoring the industry too closely.

[DOUBLEXBAUGH]

1 - There is no bloody screen

2 - Aside from squad spawning (which isn't instant and is on a timer) there is a small spawn timer and you could have a little ways to get back to the fight depending on how your empire uses galaxies.

3 - Killstreaks are just XP bonuses, no choppers or dogs.

/thread?

[Dougnifico]

I think, at least from what I've seen. PS2 has a really good death system. I'm honestly not worried about it at all.

[Policenaut]

I think the walk back to where the fighting is penalty enough.

[AvacadoEight]

Not to mention, you have to think about resources when you die. If you die constantly, and keep going back for a tank or really expensive items, you'll be drained in no time.

[Rat]

I die so often in Planetside my spawn timer generally excedes 6 mins......good time to take a leak and grab a beer!!!

[OnexBigxHebrew]

Post title is kind of a lie, but other than that, sure.

I hate killcams.

Bloody screen is a regenerating/hidden number health component, gives you a visual idea of how dead you are for those games. also, Kind of adds urgency/chaos to single player campaigns. Right for PS2? Probably not. However, it serves its purpose in the games it is in, in the same vein as shell shock, etc.

No need to talk about it though, because it isn't in the game.

Also, can we all stop referencing call of duty like it ISNT multiplayer bult around a single player experience? CoD's multiplayer in its current form is built out-of-house, by publisher-commissioned developers designed to try and make it into a good time without much balance in mind. You can't find a shooter more unlike planetside in scope. Give it a rest.

[Memeotis]

Having just watched the latest stream, I noticed an odd delay where you would stand still for half a second, then collapse. The delay made it seem like you were still alive and on your feet, you just weren't able to shoot or move. I can see this becoming frustration, because time and time again, you will think that you might just be able to kill that pesky MAX, only to realize you've been dead all along.

In that sense CoD does it quite well, since the death animation is instant and there's no unnecessary suspense. I just died, please don't get my hopes up before every death. It's cruel.

[Pella]

I hope they change that death animation in PS2. They are not needed and are just annoying.

Death shoud perhaps be like PS1. With a resurrection timer and respawn button prompted upon death. With added WTF killed you ect.

[sameer]

I would like to come here and say that APB:R has the worst death/spawn from any game so far. With TTKs in 1 second or less for almost all weapons, getting killed means a 8 second spawn with a boring grey screen. Spawn locations are terrible, far from objective and very prone to spawn camping. By far the worst Ive ever seen in any game. It keeps you out the action for so long that you do want to throw your mouse at the screen.

[Marinealver]

Death real has no penalty other than mabey some resource lost on grenades/vheicles and a longer walk to the battlefield.

Now if they had some streak bonuses or rare no spawn items that was worth staying alive for then it is a good idea.

I know that at times when I was looting ES weapons or had the health mod benifit of 120 death had a bigger effect than simply zerging from AMS/Spawn room to Tower/Base. I remeber binding at a hom cont for the 120HP HART or IA into a battle zone and If I couldnt get a rez to perserve it I would spawn at the bind, but when death became more frequent and I regenerating to 120 took too long I quit the idea.

[Ivam Akorahil]

i never got that "bloody screen so real" anyways - i bet if you ask soldiers who got shot in a combat situation, that they just noticed it. Ifact there are frequent reports of people who hardly notice they got shot because in a situation like that your so pumped full of adrenaline and endomorphine that even after getting hit and on the verge of bleeding to death your still focused like a shark aiming for a surfboarder untill it eventualy gets black and thats it. But the body can be very resilient to pain and injury unless your a whimsy little punk.