Live Streams with Commentators In Lieu of ESports

[Kurtz]

There has been a lot of debate about opening up PS2 to ESports. By definition ESports are closed matches between two clans or outfits on an instanced servers where comps(classes) are known prior to the match and matched closely by competing teams.

It is important to note that ESports wasn't introduced into WoW until after arenas were entered into the game. At one point in beta and up until slightly after the games release, WoW was open world PVP. And it was fucking amazing. You could fight the other faction anywhere. After a few massive pvp fights in selected areas slowed and crashed servers instanced pvp was born which opened the door for ESports in WoW.

Planetside 2 by contrast is a massive open world that currently has no instanced servers. The idea is to have 2000 people fight anywhere they want on the server, even if it means all at one place at one time.

If SOE can pull this off (where Blizzard couldn't) then there we are looking at massive scale warfare in an open environment that has never before been seen. There is absolutely no reason to instance any of it. Nor is there any reason to remove the vehicles or close off any part of the population for a Clan Vs. Clan "match".

What is the draw to ESports? I think everyone likes the idea of being E-famous - or being shout casted or streamed live or whatever you want to call it. Folks like the idea of sitting at home watching other teams strategies and getting on social media and chatting about a current match in progress on IRC or whatever.

The two most exillerating gaming experiences I ever had was:
1. playing Planetside 1 before the continent population caps, when SOE broke the world record for most players on a single FPS server a
2. My team was being shoutcasted in a Quarter Finals Cal Match for BF2.

I honestly feel that both of these great experiences can be combined in PS2.

My solution is rather than create instances of certain areas for closed clan v clan matches, SOE just shoutcasts Planetside in all its glory. If SOE could hire someone like TotalBiscuit to stream Planetside one night a week he could give essentially a play by play of what is going on inside the game at that given moment and even get in there and film the action much like at E3 but with a devoted camera that can be moved.

Multiple cameras could be placed at different locations and a producer could cut between cameras while a commentator or three (one for each faction) make comments.

Something like a tech plant battle could be covered in depth to who has it, who is holding it and who is trying to take it (outfit names would be used as well as individual players). The cast would cover one server a week, but could cover the global war.

Obviously this would draw huge crowds to any area being casted at any given time, so the trick is to keep moving the conversation between the global conflict, to the continental conflicts to the actual base battles. Moving around quickly would be key, cutting back and forth as the action dictates.

This would be very easy to achieve but would be considered a technical feat by the industry as SOE would be a first to do this inside a Massive open world MMO. This feature would get publicity that could be used as marketing. These shout casts could be posted on the PS2 website daily as well as social media outlets, enticing new players to join the game.

Of course, anyone watching from home could get social about what they're watching either on the forums, on twitter or on IRC. All wins for SOE.

This solution combines the best of both worlds. Everyone has a chance to be known or have some ridiculous stunt or kill streak witnessed by viewers and we don't have to instance any part of the game, create infy only continents or split populations.

Thoughts?

[Sempars]

My solution is rather than create instances of certain areas for closed clan v clan matches, SOE just shoutcasts Planetside in all its glory. If SOE could hire someone like TotalBiscuit to stream Planetside one night a week he could give essentially a play by play of what is going on inside the game at that given moment and even get in there and film the action much like at E3 but with a devoted camera that can be moved.

They could do this with Events like they just had on PS1 Saturday. "The Return to Old Oshur". It didn't take all day but in like 6 hours TR had the Map all red. That way they get the Streams they need with a lot of players in one area, doing team work.

[Top Sgt]

i am not into so called E Sports but I do know SOE eventually wants PS2 to be available to it.

I can for see a new version of outfit wars from PS1 making a return as a E-sports mode.

[OutlawDr]

I've also been thinking this is a more realistic approach rather than true esports.

Think about it as war correspondent covering a battle. However is this enough to capture the attention of players? Why would you want to spend time watching it? Would you watch this over just playing it? With esports you watch top teams play the game at its highest level, and most matches don't last more than an hour (depending on the game). You learn from them, and awe at their awesomeness.
But with this, you could be watching for longer, since there is no clear end point. And instead of watching pros, it could simply be your friends and outfit members, at which point you want to log in and play with them, or against whoever is being covered. Again, whats going to make people want to watch over playing the game?

Maybe as an after battle report. Something that summarizes what happened, but after the fact. I think there will be problems with a live stream thats following the battle as it happens. Unless people are both playing and watching the live stream simultaneous...I could see a demand for that.

[Xaine]

Good post. I agree, would love to see it.

[Baneblade]

I like the idea of PlanetSide having Starship Troopers style media reports.

[Bittermen]

Like a news network covering major battles.

[Stardouser]

Live streaming doesn't make it e-sports, that would still be part of the main game. Isn't it one of the main requirements of e-sports that weapons and certs must be standardized for all competitors? You need an instance to do that, it can not be done in the main game. And e-sports often prefer infantry only and no vehicles. That can't be done in the main game either.

Having a separate e-sports division and instances does not do anything to change the main game's focus on 2000 players. People act like if there are instances that no one will ever play the main game. I doubt that there is anything to worry about, but I propose a solution that might ease your minds:

Make it so that you can only open the e-sports instance when it is an official match that counts. This way, the only way people can practice for the e-sports would be by playing in the main game world and the ultimate result would be that, worst case scenario, a few players spend 4-5 hours per week in official matches.

[Crator]

An e-sports tuned server, one specifically for e-sports with all the restrictions and balancing of weapons and such, I'd support. Shouldn't have anything to do with regular servers though.

Live streams with commentators for non-esports server? Yes please! I'd imagine the player community will provide this.

[Kurtz]

I've also been thinking this is a more realistic approach rather than true esports.

Think about it as war correspondent covering a battle. However is this enough to capture the attention of players? Why would you want to spend time watching it? Would you watch this over just playing it? With esports you watch top teams play the game at its highest level, and most matches don't last more than an hour (depending on the game). You learn from them, and awe at their awesomeness.
But with this, you could be watching for longer, since there is no clear end point. And instead of watching pros, it could simply be your friends and outfit members, at which point you want to log in and play with them, or against whoever is being covered. Again, whats going to make people want to watch over playing the game?

Maybe as an after battle report. Something that summarizes what happened, but after the fact. I think there will be problems with a live stream thats following the battle as it happens. Unless people are both playing and watching the live stream simultaneous...I could see a demand for that.

There are many reasons I would want to watch

I am at work and want to see whats going on on my IPad app.
I am already playing but want to see what the battle on Esamir is progressing and I am using my IPad app with the global webcast to keep tabs on the global battle while focusing on the battle I am in.
I want to see tactics developed by outfits on other servers.


I like the idea of PlanetSide having Starship Troopers style media reports.

Exactly.

Live streaming doesn't make it e-sports, that would still be part of the main game. Isn't it one of the main requirements of e-sports that weapons and certs must be standardized for all competitors? You need an instance to do that, it can not be done in the main game. And e-sports often prefer infantry only and no vehicles. That can't be done in the main game either.

Having a separate e-sports division and instances does not do anything to change the main game's focus on 2000 players. People act like if there are instances that no one will ever play the main game. I doubt that there is anything to worry about, but I propose a solution that might ease your minds:

Make it so that you can only open the e-sports instance when it is an official match that counts. This way, the only way people can practice for the e-sports would be by playing in the main game world and the ultimate result would be that, worst case scenario, a few players spend 4-5 hours per week in official matches.

Yes, in ESports the weapons or loadouts are often standardized for each team, this is often called comps. Infantry only is preferred in some. As you point out, neither of these can be offered by the game in its current state. So while some may want ESports teams to come to PS2, the lack of these tools could mean ESports teams will not want to come to PS2. Most teams like to practice on their own servers when they want to perfect their strats.

It's like telling a pro team they'll have to start practicing on a pub. No one from outside will come here for that.

What I'm proposing is kind of like a happy medium that allows anyone at any time to be in the spotlight.

PS1 was like a big huge competitive match 24/7. Tactics were built around the zerg. Using the open world as a variable in the strategy and getting on the forums to brag about your conquests was why the game was the best "pub" ever made. I'm just suggesting we take that part of PS1 to the next level.

[Stardouser]

Yes, in ESports the weapons or loadouts are often standardized for each team, this is often called comps. Infantry only is preferred in some. As you point out, neither of these can be offered by the game in its current state. So while some may want ESports teams to come to PS2, the lack of these tools could mean ESports teams will not want to come to PS2. Most teams like to practice on their own servers when they want to perfect their strats.

It's like telling a pro team they'll have to start practicing on a pub. No one from outside will come here for that.

What I'm proposing is kind of like a happy medium that allows anyone at any time to be in the spotlight.

PS1 was like a big huge competitive match 24/7. Tactics were built around the zerg. Using the open world as a variable in the strategy and getting on the forums to brag about your conquests was why the game was the best "pub" ever made. I'm just suggesting we take that part of PS1 to the next level.


I definitely want what you are asking for, and I think they should give in-game news journalists some tools to help them do this (cue Malorn saying no based on the journalists cheating).

I just don't think this constitutes e-sports. I mean, e-sports does let successful people get the spotlight, and so does your idea, but your idea does not allow, for example, a 10 team league of 8 players each to battle it out in organized matches over a couple months with 2-3 official matches per week;which are highly highly competitive and the people who are fighting are specifically chosen and registered.

So, I definitely want your idea to be implemented, it just doesn't answer the e-sports issue. Ultimately your fear is that people are going to spend all their time playing on instances and not the main game, right? I don't think that's going to happen for many many reasons and even if it did, what is the harm as long as you can still find at least one properly populated 2000 player server?

[QuantumMechanic]

First, I'd say that the idea of esports and PS2 is a very tricky subject.

I think Kurtz's idea is a good compromise. But it is not true esports. And I'm not convinced that true esports will ever work or become popular in MMOs (not just PS2).

The MMO that could have been the best fit for esports was Warhammer Online in my opinion. The game was designed as a true no-instance open world MMO, but from the start had instance-based team vs team matches.

There were level requirements for the different matches to keep the playing field somewhat (somewhat) even.

What ended up happening was that people would mostly only play in the open world while they were waiting in queue for an instanced match. So the open world objectives were paid little attention, mainly becaused the instanced match play provided the most XP gains.

But even in an MMO that had esports type gameplay build in from the start, I've never heard of any esports teams or broadcasting of Warhammer Online. I could be wrong, but even if so it never became that popular.

So basically I don't see how true esports and MMOs can co-habitate well together. That being said, I think the OP's idea is a decent compromise.

[Crator]

The MMO that could have been the best fit for esports was Warhammer Online in my opinion. The game was designed as a true no-instance open world MMO, but from the start had instance-based team vs team matches.

Warhammer Online made a big mistake putting in those instance-based empire vs empire matches imo. The game was supposed to center around open-world PvP with open-world PvE around it all. And they just let people join instanced death matches? WTF?

[VaderShake]

I like the idea of PlanetSide having Starship Troopers style media reports.

"Would you like to know more?"

Personally, I don't care about E-Sports.

However if it will help SOE $upport PS2 longer I think E-Sports can come later in PS2 and maybe even spawn sub-servers dedicated to regions for E-sports which can be rented for a fee by those who wish to participate. Who knows maybe they will add mini-contenents/arenas with E-sports in mind as well. Just because they can do 2,000 people on 64sqkm does not mean they have to.

It seems they made the engine scale able to adjust as needed.

With PS2 I see nearly endless combinations and possibilities of additional content, play modes, maps, locations, vehicles, weapons, modifications, and other game types using this engine.

How cool would it be to see a WW2 game with 2,000 people fighting it out in the hedge rows of the French country side or a WW3 scenerio as a prequel leading up to PS history or PS taking us to completely new worlds...pimp:

[Aerothorn]

It is important to note that ESports wasn't introduced into WoW until after arenas were entered into the game. At one point in beta and up until slightly after the games release, WoW was open world PVP. And it was fucking amazing. You could fight the other faction anywhere.

As someone who hasn't played WOW since early 2005, I had no idea they took that out. That's madness. The only really dynamic part of the game was PVP, and my only interesting memory trying to sneak through enemy territory or fleeing from high-level gankers.

[OutlawDr]

The problem I see with making a separate esports version of the game is that its no longer PS2. I watch SC2 and LOL matches because I play those game. The pros Im watching are playing the same game I'm play. I can relate to what they are doing and better appreciate the insane stuff they can pull off. I don't watch Halo matches because I don't play Halo and all the other esports games I don't play.

If this separate version has strict comp settings, no vehicles, limited number of players, ect.. it isn't Planetside 2. Its some other game. Do we expect the average PS2 player to care enough to watch this? Maybe if those players also play the "esports version", but then you just have people playing two different games ... and also devs supporting two different games. At the end of the day its not PS2 esports.

[Malorn]

I'd like to see the Empire vs Empire theme highlighted in streams. I love the idea of having commentators constantly going around and showing us a PS2 battle from different angles or simply following around different types of outfits and showing all the different ways to have fun in PS2.

I think that would be more entertaining as a viewer, and do far more to promote and market the game itself than the traditional view of ESports.

Having empire competitions is how I'd like to see the competitive nature of PS2 exposed as a telecasted "sport" - follow the VS, TR, and NC in a contest to hold the most territory on a continent for a period of time. The "winner" is an empire, not an individual or an outfit. All sorts of different outfits contribute, from the super air-cav outfits to the specops outfits, to the armor outfits and paratrooper outfits. Lots of ways to contribute to empire dominance, why not show us all of them in a real Planetside contest?

Planetside is about Massive. Any sort of esport casting that doesn't capture that is epic fail.

[bpostal]

I don't think an non-instanced server would work out in the long run. The main issue would be balancing the game around the massive scale (Planetside 2) and trying to also balance around the smaller scale (Gimped Planetside 2).
My guess is that would result in not only two types of servers with different balancing on the weapons and whatnot but a lot of developer time wasted on balancing instead of making new stuff and fixing anything that's broken.

[Tsunami]

Multiple cameras could be placed at different locations and a producer could cut between cameras while a commentator or three (one for each faction) make comments.


Rather than multiple, you could have the source engines style of free caming.

[WellWisherELF]

No thanks. Esports needlessly segregates a game's playerbase and fosters elitism.

[Kurtz]

Rather than multiple, you could have the source engines style of free caming.

If they put any effort in they could dolly up some fly throughs and the entire thing could be automated. It still would be cool to have a few static cameras that are in tight on control points that can get up close on occasion and capture some infy action.

I would watch this while playing just to see where my faction is needed most and if my server wasn't being streamed, I would probably watch it anyway.

[FatherJack]

No I dont think esports or commentators would work in the main game. Why would you want to watch when you can just play? Would you rather watch the totalbiscuit videos or play in the beta?

What could work is outfit v outfit combat. Instanced maps with a small number of bases that would have a defined objective. I am thinking 400 V 400 on a map organised in a league. Now that could be interesting and would be fun to watch.

[Boomhowser]

holds no intrest for me tbh though I can see how it appeals to others.

I'll watch vids atm as it gives me my fix but when/if I go into beta then onto live I will be playing so no need to watch anything other than freaky bugs & humourous clips

[xnorb]

For my exhibitionism i got my youTube channel and eSports has absolutely
no place in PS2 as it's all about large scale warfare and nto about 5on5.

Show me a clan that can bring 100 members at one time to a match and
show me whole tournaments with those ammounts of people, then i will
happily come back to your idea of eSports.

[Nash]

Is it too much to ask for a game which doesnt devolve into this stupid elitist #ESPORTS crap?
Let Planetside be Planetside and dont f*ck it up with that crap.
If you wan't esports, play sc2 or lol or whatever...

[Kurtz]

This thread has nothing to do with ESports. Saying NO TO ESPORTS in your reply only points out what an opinionated person you are to comment without insight. Please read the thread if you want to join the discussion. Useless comments like these only turn this into another ESports debate, which this is not.

This thread is about a live feed that broadcasts the game with commentators - like a news cast of the "war effort" for faction loyalty, game immersion, social marketing and because we can.

If you ever watched Starship Troopers, you would get it.

[Slepnair]

No thanks. Esports needlessly segregates a game's playerbase and fosters elitism.

Don't we already have elitism and major segregation between factions?

[Flaropri]

As someone who hasn't played WOW since early 2005, I had no idea they took that out.

They didn't, there are still PvP servers, just most people don't bother that much.



Anywho... Here's the thing, what are you accomplishing with Live Stream Commentating as the OP described?

There are several things that E-Sports does in a general sense:

1. It builds awareness and excitement for the game.
2. It gives a goal for (some) players to try and "go pro" or make a name for themselves and get noticed etc.
3. It supports the creation of sponsored teams/players and events, which essentially gets non player/developer money put toward the game (if not necessarily directly).
4. It (hopefully) showcases the more skill-based, intricate, or lesser known strategies that can be theoretically applied in the game by anyone.

Simple Streaming Commentary will probably get #1 done (albeit to a slightly lesser degree) and sometimes #4. It won't particularly motivate players, or draw in outside money however. The investment might be smaller, but the payout is also much smaller, and I have doubts that it would be particularly worth going out of their way to do it, particularly when (likely) a given Outfit or individual will likely do their own commentary albeit from a less omniscient format.

You also have far, far less control over what gets streamed outside E-Sports. Yes, this is a bad thing. It could end up show-casing how someone can cheat, how there were fewer players than expected, or otherwise put the game in a negative light. Even in showmatch or tournament settings you have technical problems and other errors that make the production as a whole less than ideal.

Is Streaming Commentary good? Yes, but it isn't something that would work weekly without a greater investment than they'd get back considering that it doesn't accomplish. It can still be good ways to introduce new vehicles or introduce players to the game, but it won't keep the same viewers because of the lack of human interest (other than the personality of the caster).

We jump on any stream now because of the lack of information and ability to play the game for ourselves, but that won't be the case when the game is released or likely even when Open Beta starts.

Leave it as an occasional thing, like for particularly large patches or promotional stuff.

[Arovien]

O yes, thousands of individuals will attempt to stream PS2 once it's allowed. Those that can stream quality (content and actual video quality) will differentiated themselves and develop large followings. Large followings = cash from playing ads.

Once E-sports develops, no matter the opinion, someone (player or organization) will attempt to benefit from streaming PS2 E-sports matches. Again, large followings = cash from playing ads.

[OutlawDr]

True esport never going develop on its own in PS2. Not unless the devs go out of their way to support it by creating separate instances that fosters an esport environment. PS2 on its own is never going to attract sponsors (too many players, too many outside variables) and its impossible to create arenas for teams to duel it out in even, comp settings. Simply getting revenue from your live streams doesn't make you a professional esports player.

[SixShooter]

There has been a lot of debate about opening up PS2 to ESports. By definition ESports are closed matches between two clans or outfits on an instanced servers where comps(classes) are known prior to the match and matched closely by competing teams.

It is important to note that ESports wasn't introduced into WoW until after arenas were entered into the game. At one point in beta and up until slightly after the games release, WoW was open world PVP. And it was fucking amazing. You could fight the other faction anywhere. After a few massive pvp fights in selected areas slowed and crashed servers instanced pvp was born which opened the door for ESports in WoW.

Planetside 2 by contrast is a massive open world that currently has no instanced servers. The idea is to have 2000 people fight anywhere they want on the server, even if it means all at one place at one time.

If SOE can pull this off (where Blizzard couldn't) then there we are looking at massive scale warfare in an open environment that has never before been seen. There is absolutely no reason to instance any of it. Nor is there any reason to remove the vehicles or close off any part of the population for a Clan Vs. Clan "match".

What is the draw to ESports? I think everyone likes the idea of being E-famous - or being shout casted or streamed live or whatever you want to call it. Folks like the idea of sitting at home watching other teams strategies and getting on social media and chatting about a current match in progress on IRC or whatever.

The two most exillerating gaming experiences I ever had was:
1. playing Planetside 1 before the continent population caps, when SOE broke the world record for most players on a single FPS server a
2. My team was being shoutcasted in a Quarter Finals Cal Match for BF2.

I honestly feel that both of these great experiences can be combined in PS2.

My solution is rather than create instances of certain areas for closed clan v clan matches, SOE just shoutcasts Planetside in all its glory. If SOE could hire someone like TotalBiscuit to stream Planetside one night a week he could give essentially a play by play of what is going on inside the game at that given moment and even get in there and film the action much like at E3 but with a devoted camera that can be moved.

Multiple cameras could be placed at different locations and a producer could cut between cameras while a commentator or three (one for each faction) make comments.

Something like a tech plant battle could be covered in depth to who has it, who is holding it and who is trying to take it (outfit names would be used as well as individual players). The cast would cover one server a week, but could cover the global war.

Obviously this would draw huge crowds to any area being casted at any given time, so the trick is to keep moving the conversation between the global conflict, to the continental conflicts to the actual base battles. Moving around quickly would be key, cutting back and forth as the action dictates.

This would be very easy to achieve but would be considered a technical feat by the industry as SOE would be a first to do this inside a Massive open world MMO. This feature would get publicity that could be used as marketing. These shout casts could be posted on the PS2 website daily as well as social media outlets, enticing new players to join the game.

Of course, anyone watching from home could get social about what they're watching either on the forums, on twitter or on IRC. All wins for SOE.

This solution combines the best of both worlds. Everyone has a chance to be known or have some ridiculous stunt or kill streak witnessed by viewers and we don't have to instance any part of the game, create infy only continents or split populations.

Thoughts?

I think something like this would be great considering that I work nights and this would be a great cure for my boredom at work.

[Stew]

I think letting people and also pushing a small scales competitive scene for planetside Will kill planetside 2 as it is An open wold sand box massive experience

look at what happen now with Bf3 4 vs 4 operation metro it really start to kill Bf as it is i mean a 64 player with vehicules and infantry combat

If their is any esports It as to be Massive scales competitive massive outfit or outfit alliance tournaments not a dumb down small scales every day shooter tournament like usual and typical lame esports tournament