Infiltration havoc wreakers.

[SpaceDrake]

Originally posted in Beta Journal #4
The Infiltration Suit is growing in popularity, and a rivalry is beginning between it and the powerful MAX armor. A stealth engineer describes an incident in a previous test where a MAX was unloading into an enemy AMS. The engineer proceeded to sneak up to the MAX and place mines around it. When the MAX moved to attack another wave of soldiers spawning from the AMS, the mines detonated, ending the assault. Another stealth soldier describes his experience with the melee boost implant, as he trailed enemy soldiers trying to penetrate his Empire's facilities. He was able to quickly dispatch them through the combined power of the implant and his knife's secondary attack mode.

So it seems that if one is VERY cautious in their movements in the stealth suit, it's quite hard to see them.

Oh hells yes. :D The Dream is real. I can't wait.

(And it doesn't seem like the Stealth Suit is UBER, at least yet. Both of the above instances were a combination of smart use on the part of the stealth attackers and (at least for the MAX) utter, mind-numbing stupidity on the part of the pwned. In the former situation... frankly, I'm still not sure how the stealth engineer pulled that trick off. Even if he went undetected, how did the MAX user NOT notice mines being placed around him? The latter example is simple rearguarding. If you're going in to a facility, watch out for stealther defense troops. Simple, really.)

[NeoTassadar]

The MAX was focused on the AMS and probably its escort. But you have to wonder about that squad.

Edit: If Hamma was in that squad, I said nothing

[Incompetent]

alright, i don't want to start another monster but i think that the guys who are being attacked probably don't know what to look for. After a month or two, the sheer number of stealthers going around means that almost everyone is going to be versed in anti-stealth warfare and for anything other then light defense (tending boomers and the like) and scouting, ok, im going down the same path as last time. I think the players aren't alert to the signs of stealths as of yet, once they get more playtime in and have to deal with them more often tho...

[NeoTassadar]

What to look for...like less people following you? Messages ("X player was killed by Y player", then different X players but the same Y)? Screams of pain or metal scraping metal behind you (not sure)?

[tmax]

nah steathers will always be able to pull cheap little tricks like that...its gonna be too much for someone trying to fend off wave of assult soldiers to also be watchin for stealthers sneaking up carefully.

[Destroyeron]

I'll be a stealther a lot. Expect many backstabbings.

[Incompetent]

What to look for...like less people following you? Messages ("X player was killed by Y player", then different X players but the same Y)? Screams of pain or metal scraping metal behind you (not sure)? i meant like the little flicker of light when they move, the distortion when they attack, turning on stealthhunting implants intermitently and making sure noone is to close, listening for any noises, that sort of stuff, the MAX, i don't know how he didn't hear/see the mines thrown down, might have had the music on, bad idea. The guys that were ambushed, they probably weren't very alert, maybe didn't have a darklight or audio amp (or maybe they relied on the audio and he had silent run.) He probably took them out from the inside of the formation, kept enemies in the shooters lines of fire, (the shooters might have been afraid of grief,) their probably weren't very many of them and he might have gotten lucky and taken out the guy with the darklight first, the rest of the squad was probably scared and not thinking clearly, not carefully examining and they probably were waiting for a sure shot, instead of just shooting at anything that even might be a stealth and watching for the wound flickers. Edit: stealth was probably someone experienced in both cases, maybe a dev or one of the original 50 testers.

[Euroclydon]

Maybe your mine is under the influence of you infil armor (just like the wraith), so it is not possible to detect a stealther even if he's setting a mine directly in front of you (without darklight vision of course).

[mr_luc]

Heh it's ok Incompetent. :) We Know Drama.

I think Inf's aren't going to be as leet as everyone fears. As you say, people will learn to be on the lookout a bit more. But more importantly, in a base-taking situation, defense is going to definitely be clustering around choke points, and Infs aren't going to be very good at sneaking past busy, congested areas. The odds that one person will not noticing stealther is WAY more than the odds of 5, 10, or 20 people not noticing an Inf.

And of course, the reall organized people are going to have a MAX plopped RIGHT in front of the console during important fights. :D Even with the element of surprise, the MAX would still be practically looking the Inf in the face . . . I doubt the Inf could take the MAX, surprise or no. And after a little while, surprise won't help much.

I think that Stealthers will be used mostly for probing, in good balance. They certainly won't be overpowering in pitched battle, in fact I think they will probably be at a disadvantage then.

I mean, one stealther alone can't do much from an objectives-based point of view. It's very unlikely that 3 or 4 stealthers will be able to take over a facility by themselves and get away with it. So most likely, they will be lone wolves -- hitting before the main force, not going after important objectives necessarily but instead hitting a guy here, taking out a guy there, haunting the base and never giving them a moment's rest. They'll get quite a few kills, but not many captures (unless they're also the hacker for a larger invasion force). And, hey, if they can hack a facility on their own, there's at least an even chance that friendlies will show up to help the place get settled -- so that could actually be very useful.

Again, though, these are all low-activity situations. During non-stop battles, they will still have a role, but likely a less active one than during off-peak hours, and they will reign over less populated regions.

[simba]

"The engineer proceeded to sneak up to the MAX and place mines around it. When the MAX moved to attack another wave of soldiers spawning from the AMS, the mines detonated, ending the assault."

lmao, THAT thing wont happend allot, thats for SURE.

[NapalmEnima]

I mentioned this over on the official forums, but it's worth repeating:

As getting smeared by stealthers increases, so will people's desire to get the countermeasure implants: Audio-amp, and darklight vision...

Plus, people will get better at general "pay attention" stuff, like listening for footsteps and looking for that visual disturbance that shows an infiltration suit on the move.

I got pretty good at listening for the cloaking pack in T2... after you get shocklanced once or twice, you tend to get real twitchy about noises coming from behind you. I've spun around to see a teammate walking up behind me more than once. But I've also managed to take shocklance blasts in the chest that would have killed me had it struck my back.

[NeoTassadar]

Originally posted by simba
lmao, THAT thing wont happend allot, thats for SURE.
You're right, most will use Boomers.:D
Nice additions to things to look for, Incompetent. Btw, your "scorched earth" policy with consoles is good. Nice to see someone else who factors sacrifice into his/her decisions.

[OmnipotentKiwi]

Darklight Implant anyone? That is the countwe we know about for stealth :)

[FraBaktos]

Stealths won't be too dangerous they have 0 armor. Once you find them, they are basically dead.

[Warborn]

I cannot believe the person in a suit of MAX armor didn't see the stealther doing that. It's really unbelievable.

Darklight Implant anyone? That is the countwe we know about for stealth

You know about the Audio Amplification implant too.

[�io]

You know i just thought about something...

The stealth dude planted mines all around, now i assume planting a mine is the same as firing a weapon. So either the MAX was VERY distracted or the infiltration suit doesn't decloak completly when attacking.

[1024]

Originally posted by Warborn
I cannot believe the person in a suit of MAX armor didn't see the stealther doing that. It's really unbelievable.



You know about the Audio Amplification implant too.


The stealther could have silent run, which almost every stealther should and probably will get.

Originally posted by NeoTassadar
You're right, most will use Boomers.
Nice additions to things to look for, Incompetent. Btw, your "scorched earth" policy with consoles is good. Nice to see someone else who factors sacrifice into his/her decisions.


waht scorched earth policy? :confused:

[mr_luc]

Quick thought -- do mines detonate if they're placed near an IMMOBILE enemy? Or would they only detonate once the enemy starts moving? :lol: In that case, the guy could have dropped 3 or 4 mines right behind and slightly to the side of the mostly immobile (maybe locked down?) MAX, and the MAX would be doomed -- soon as he moves, BOOM!

[Moleculor]

No, mines do not detonate near immobile enemies. That's why the mines didn't go off till he moved (and why they didn't blow up in the engineer's face).

It works like this. Stealther comes up behind MAX. Since the MAX's field of vision is only 90 degrees (unless he happens to have a parabolic monitor, which is typically available for THOUSANDS of dollars), he can't see to the sides or behind him. VERY easy to sneak up when the MAX is focusing his fire. He simply plants three mines behind him (the cloak only reduces one level of cloaking when deploying objects and using objects, DUH), and leaves. MAX moves. Boom.

[1024]

Originally posted by Moleculor
No, mines do not detonate near immobile enemies. That's why the mines didn't go off till he moved (and why they didn't blow up in the engineer's face).

It works like this. Stealther comes up behind MAX. Since the MAX's field of vision is only 90 degrees (unless he happens to have a parabolic monitor, which is typically available for THOUSANDS of dollars), he can't see to the sides or behind him. VERY easy to sneak up when the MAX is focusing his fire. He simply plants three mines behind him (the cloak only reduces one level of cloaking when deploying objects and using objects, DUH), and leaves. MAX moves. Boom.

actually, do you think the game would support a parabolic monitor? haha:D ....but seriously, yes or no?

[OmnipotentKiwi]

Originally posted by Spnsr2
actually, do you think the game would support a parabolic monitor? haha:D ....but seriously, yes or no?
No

[Moleculor]

If enough demand existed, yes. Simply add an option that changes your FOV from 90 to 120. No other FOVs allowed, of course.

[Toimu]

If you want an idea of what it is like attacking people who are used to alot of stealthers, play Tribes 2 in the game, Combat PA 3.0 T2. I play stealther in that alot, but man, they are good at looking for stealthers and killing them.

And a Juggernaut with a Shield pack can be killed by a Sniper or Stealther (The Shocklance works kind-of like a knife). It just takes more than one, and 5-6 hits.

From playing T2. Juggernauts kill Stealthers, Stealthers kill Snipers, Snipers kill people trying to repair stuff. Of course, anyone can be killed by anyone else.

[mikkyT]

As getting smeared by stealthers increases, so will people's desire to get the countermeasure implants: Audio-amp, and darklight vision...

Plus, people will get better at general "pay attention" stuff, like listening for footsteps and looking for that visual disturbance that shows an infiltration suit on the move.

Yes this is true but then the number of stealthers over time will go down as people will become bored, its not fun anymore im not 1337 I get caught.

So then, there'll be less use for those implants and they will change them for something more useful for them, at which point the hardcore rogues amongst us will start having fun again wasting them :)

[NeoTassadar]

Originally posted by Spnsr2
waht scorched earth policy? :confused:
Incompetent was talking about destroying consoles (even friendly ones) that the enemy is about to be able to use. Like if he knows there are Vanu Infs. in the area of a base he's defending. He would then take out a few equipment consoles there, so they can't become MAXs when they hack one (ten MAXs inside your defenses is BAD). Much like the Russians would torch their own farms, houses, sheds, storage, etc. during their retreat. But doing it immediatly would be nessecary when they can make use of your supplies almost instantly.

[mr_luc]

THat info about the mines is news to me. It's hilarious! So if I place three mines near my feet and wait for them to arm, I'm dead if I move, but not if I stay in one place and snipe.








LLAMA CAGING FOR EVERYONE!

[Moleculor]

THat info about the mines is news to me. It's hilarious! So if I place three mines near my feet and wait for them to arm, I'm dead if I move, but not if I stay in one place and snipe.

Umm... That's assuming that mines aren't smart, and will go off near friendlies.

Heh. I'd love to be able to hack mines and make 'em mine instead of the enemies. Hehehe...

[mr_luc]

Well, I don't mean necessarily caging friendlies. Llama caging could imply caging a friendly OR an enemy.

But it's so ideal, would be SO satisfying. They'd be dead, no hope for them, and the best part is that they would pretty much be committing suicide. So either they suicide, I kill them, or they sit out there forever . . . all alone . . . :lol: :lol:

If you can do this at release, I am steealther all the way. I would even devote an Outfit dedicated to llama-caging.

[Warborn]

The stealther could have silent run, which almost every stealther should and probably will get.

You'd be surprised. I know if I were an Infiltrator I wouldn't be doing much running anyway, and I'd be more worried about Darklight Vision than Audo Amplifiers too.

Plus, people will get better at general "pay attention" stuff, like listening for footsteps and looking for that visual disturbance that shows an infiltration suit on the move.

Doors opening with nobody walking through is the #1 tipoff.

[LesserShade]

Originally posted by Moleculor
Umm... That's assuming that mines aren't smart, and will go off near friendlies.

Heh. I'd love to be able to hack mines and make 'em mine instead of the enemies. Hehehe...
do we know if mines are smart?

[Chanfan]

The mine-laying scenario described isn't that unbelievable to me. I see tanks in BF1942 that get mines laid around them all the time, by non-stealth, perfectly visible engineers.

Sometimes the tanker just sees an infantry run by close to his front, and doesn't realize it's a mine laying engineer. Sometimes they just hope they can miss the mines (or go slow enough to not set them off).

[Moleculor]

Mines are most likely intelligent, as the stealther ran away without setting them off.