Enter/Exit vehicles (No God mode please)

[Canaris]

Sorry for making a separate post about the Enter/Exit mechanic just wanted to say to the dev's one thing I'd not like to see carry over from PS1 is the instant god mode you get while the animation is active.

Can be very frustrating when you catch someone out of their vehicle and start killing them just to have them press G to re-enter. Even though the avatar is still there going through the animation and being riddled with shots you can't hurt them.

Many a enemy has escaped their fate this way.


p.s. if a Mod doesn't think this deserves it's own spot please kick it over to whichever thread is suitable, just wanted Dev's to see it. :)

[Canaris]

You could have used one of the 1100 existing threads about this topic.

that's why I added a post script :p

[Zekeen]

Perhaps you looked at it in an entirely bizarre way and should think on that in a different style.

It didn't make you invincible, it made you vulnerable, you are just looking at it wrong. In current PS2 style, it's the exact same, only there is no period of vulnerability.

No vulnerability you say? Invincible? You're shooting at the wrong target. The vehicle is still susceptible to damage. And that's several seconds the vehicle is not shooting you. In the current PS2 system, they can do the same as you fear, but the time in which they seem "invincible", they will be tracking their turrets toward your head. Really, what you fear is very much an aesthetics than a problem. You see a person, so you shoot at the person, you should have just shot the vehicle with a rocket. In both PS1 and PS2, the moment they hit the enter button they become the vehicle, PS1 just had fancy animations to go with it.

In the mean time, look around the idea forums, I made a post on just having nice long boot up and boot down sequences in vehicles, a bit more thought out than Higby mentioned one time, that would cure your aesthetics problem and still keep that vulnerable period when they can't fight back.

[Rago]

Im still against enter and Exit Animations.
It´s just something that is not necessary.
I See The Sniper Squad Killing People on the Vehicle Spawn,...XD

[Canaris]

Im still against enter and Exit Animations.
It´s just something that is not necessary.
I See The Sniper Squad Killing People on the Vehicle Spawn,...XD

I'm not sure how vehicle spawn will work in PS2, we've seen both kinds so far instant and having to manually do it but in PS1 it has a good system that as the driver you are generated into your vehicle when it spawns, I think that's fine and hope it stays. My issue with no delay on E/E after spawned is I believe it would be detrimental to the game. Just look at all the BF troll videos for the source of all the foolishness that can ruin game play.

Planetside 1s aspect of the delay animation makes it more tactical and you can't just hop in and out with impunity, I just feel that they really cut a corner with making the person entering a vehicle invulnerable to damage even though there are technically outside the vehicle and getting in.

In the mean time, look around the idea forums, I made a post on just having nice long boot up and boot down sequences in vehicles, a bit more thought out than Higby mentioned one time, that would cure your aesthetics problem and still keep that vulnerable period when they can't fight back.
That's a great idea for a quick fix but I still hope they make an animation for it, those were brilliant in the original. :)

[Hamma]

So this is about when you exit a vehicle (in the current system) being vulnerable immediately right? I'm fairly certain that is how it is.

[ThGlump]

Its about that when you instantly exit vehicle you have advantage against enemy who has AV in a hand and shooting tank. So you just pop out kill him and go back inside vehicle. With animation (even when you are invincible during them), enemy has time to react that you exiting so you cant abuse that system.

[Flaropri]

Its about that when you instantly exit vehicle you have advantage against enemy who has AV in a hand and shooting tank.

So... you shouldn't have an advantage with a vehicle over someone without a vehicle? Even so...

So you just pop out kill him and go back inside vehicle. With animation (even when you are invincible during them), enemy has time to react that you exiting so you cant abuse that system.

I think you're overestimating weapon deadliness and underestimating player reaction times. Plus it's not like AV can't murder a player with a direct hit. Only way you can't hot-switch your weapon is (maybe) if you're reloading (need to confirm that) in which case it's not any different from coming out of cover for example while someone is reloading, and they are being stupid if they aren't in/near cover (especially against a tank) in the first place.

Even if they continue to attack the tank and get killed by you for it, it isn't like they weren't be doing damage, unlike when attacking someone with frames of invulnerability (as opposed to the vehicle itself) which was the concern of the OP.

[ThGlump]

So... you shouldn't have an advantage with a vehicle over someone without a vehicle? Even so...

Sure you should have advantage when in vehicle. But at the same time you should be vulnerable to AV weapons. If you can instantly switch and use advantage of vehicle and soldier without penalty (delay in this case) then tanks isnt a vehicle, its a power up to your soldier that you can use without any consequence.



I think you're overestimating weapon deadliness and underestimating player reaction times. Plus it's not like AV can't murder a player with a direct hit. Only way you can't hot-switch your weapon is (maybe) if you're reloading (need to confirm that) in which case it's not any different from coming out of cover for example while someone is reloading, and they are being stupid if they aren't in/near cover (especially against a tank) in the first place.

Switching weapons take time and in that time you will be dead to someone who instantly popped out of tank (more so if you were hit from that tank before). Its not someone new on battlefield who surprised you. Its someone you know about and trying to kill with weapons suited for it and then he instantly change so soldier and your weapon is ineffective. Before you change weapon you will be likely dead. If not he just enter vehicle again and wait till you pull out AV again.

[Kriegson]

Might be of relevance; The sunderer has a certification for quickly exiting the vehicle, with the first level reducing it to 1.25 seconds (or so).

That being said, exiting vehicles under fire sounds like it might be a risky proposition not for the obvious reason of being shot at, but possible due to not being able to bail out immediately (as a passenger only?) and thus getting blown up El-masse if the driver wanders into a very dangerous situation.

So devs might very well be toying with the system currently.

[Bravix]

Might be of relevance; The sunderer has a certification for quickly exiting the vehicle, with the first level reducing it to 1.25 seconds (or so).


First I've heard of that, though if it's true that's certainly interesting.

[Kriegson]

First I've heard of that, though if it's true that's certainly interesting.

Indeed.
http://wiki.planetside-universe.com/ps/Quick_Exit

Also says it's available for "most vehicles" so it might pertain to more than the sundy.

[Raymac]

Yeah. I'm not a big fan of the instantaneous entering and exiting. I think there should be a short period of time before you become active either way. For me, the main reason would be losing out on vehicle kills because the guy instantly jumps out at the last minute. That's why I liked the "bailing mechanism failure" they had for aircraft in PS1.

[EisenKreutzer]

I was under the impression that there were no entry/exit animations in PS2. Which means there are no invincibility frames, since there is no animation to be invincible while performing. So moot point. :)

[Stardouser]

Sure you should have advantage when in vehicle. But at the same time you should be vulnerable to AV weapons. If you can instantly switch and use advantage of vehicle and soldier without penalty (delay in this case) then tanks isnt a vehicle, its a power up to your soldier that you can use without any consequence.




Switching weapons take time and in that time you will be dead to someone who instantly popped out of tank (more so if you were hit from that tank before). Its not someone new on battlefield who surprised you. Its someone you know about and trying to kill with weapons suited for it and then he instantly change so soldier and your weapon is ineffective. Before you change weapon you will be likely dead. If not he just enter vehicle again and wait till you pull out AV again.

There's also a couple of other questions:
1. Why were you so close to the tank that the driver was able to pop out and shoot you, instead of firing from cover, or from a good range?
2. Where was your squad?

Also, subject to actually playing it, but it feels like tanks will be nimble and precise enough that, IF they are paying attention, they can back up or zip forward fast to get a firing angle on infantry that close, such that popping out to try and kill someone that way would be far riskier.

[ThGlump]

1. Just jumped out of cover behind tank that just drove past us to hit it to vulnerable spot.
2. Hiding in cover as they dont have AV so they dont provide easy targets for tank.

Tank cant go far away or turn fast as im in his vulnerable spot, he would die in that time. So instantly jumping out he turn disadvantage to advantage as i have wrong weapon in hand.

[Azren]

OP: there are no animations, entry/exit is instant right now

To the others: we were able to instantly jump out of vehicles in PS1, was hardly ever used though. Good luck jumping out, you will just get run over a second after.

[Canaris]

apologies peeps I forgot to add the word "proposed" before "E/E system", I know well it not in yet just wanted raise it as an issue as I see it in PS1 that I hope won't repeat in the sequel :)

[Flaropri]

Switching weapons take time and in that time you will be dead to someone who instantly popped out of tank (more so if you were hit from that tank before).

TTK isn't that short, and weapon switch times aren't that long. Not even long enough to give an overwhelming advantage in this situation. Especially considering that AV that is ineffective against infantry is generally on an HA, MAX, or Turret.

You have time to go back into cover or for your squad to come out of cover. If you've already taken damage from the vehicle's weapons there's not any particularly great reason for them to cease using that weapon short of running out of ammo.

LA's using Boomers might have relative difficulty, but they are also harder to hit in the first place and rely on surprise and angle of approach, so it won't be that much of a change for them since they'll just plant and run anyway (and if the enemy hops out there's still a good chance for them to get caught in the blast).


You seem to think that someone exiting a vehicle will always have perfect accuracy and position. In reality that won't be the case. If a vehicle is moving it'll keep moving, easily getting in the way of their own line of fire. If their enemy with AV is able to get behind cover they have to choose to either get back in, risking that they'll get shot in the back or be in the exact same position as before, or hunt them down, having better chances for survival but leaving their tank vulnerable and inactive.

I'm not going to be able to convince you, but I think you'll find it isn't nearly the advantage you make it out to be after you've had a change to play out the scenario a good number of times on either side.

[Raymac]

This why I don't like the instant exit. Tank is almost dead, jump out with your AV as the enemy takes out your tank, get 1 or 2 shots on target with your AV. Now I don't mind it if there is a small delay upon exiting, giving the option to bail a real risk/reward decision. However, making it instant is just going to make getting vehicle kills a frustrating pain in the ass. If I kill you in your tank, I want credit for killing a tank, not an infantry. Or worse yet, getting killed by you because it was a close fight between our vehicles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=017I9ghLsYA#t=09m46s

[Cutter]

There should be a definite delay on entry/egress in conjunction with the animation cycle to prevent that sort of nonsense.

[Sledgecrushr]

How many shots does it take for ha av to kill a tank?

[Buggsy]

Im still against enter and Exit Animations.
It´s just something that is not necessary.
I See The Sniper Squad Killing People on the Vehicle Spawn,...XD

Enter/Exit animations is a better way to balance vehicles vs. infantry instead of simply nerfing vehicles...and it's better for immersion.

[Azren]

apologies peeps I forgot to add the word "proposed" before "E/E system", I know well it not in yet just wanted raise it as an issue as I see it in PS1 that I hope won't repeat in the sequel :)

The devs were very insistent when they stated over and over that no E/E animations will be created for the game. They said it would take months to implement them, something they do not want to "waste their time on".

I might not know all the details, but creating a single animation, for example something similar to what we saw when they spawned vehicles (just instead of vehicles, the character would appear) and adding it to all vehicles should not be hard IMO.

[Rivenshield]

Once again, with feeling:

We do not need entry/exit animations -- we merely want them. All we need is a slight delay with timer bar whenever entering, exiting, or changing positions in a vehicle. Coupled with the same de-rez animation you get in a spawn tube, this will prevent exploits (switching from main gun instantly to MG to gun down the AV infantry that just popped up next to you, instabailing to cheat your opponent of his kill, etc). It will also give us the sense of immersion we seek.

I should make this my post footer so I don't have to type it in afresh every other day.

[ThGlump]

There was someone who wanted animations for looks?
I want it purely for game mechanics it enforce. And dont care how it will look or if there will be any animations as long that mechanics is there. But easiest way to do it with animations is to steal old one from PS1 - the one used for cave turrets and switchblade.

[Kriegson]

Once again, with feeling:

We do not need entry/exit animations -- we merely want them. All we need is a slight delay with timer bar whenever entering, exiting, or changing positions in a vehicle. Coupled with the same de-rez animation you get in a spawn tube, this will prevent exploits (switching from main gun instantly to MG to gun down the AV infantry that just popped up next to you, instabailing to cheat your opponent of his kill, etc). It will also give us the sense of immersion we seek.

I should make this my post footer so I don't have to type it in afresh every other day.

Emphasized for effect, not that most will notice :rolleyes:

@ general topic
As mentioned earlier, there are certs that have been discovered (one way or another) which pertain to quickly exiting a vehicle, with the lowest being a delay of 1.25 seconds or so.

You can see it on the wiki, though we don't know how or if this is getting implemented.

[Azren]

There was someone who wanted animations for looks?
I want it purely for game mechanics it enforce. And dont care how it will look or if there will be any animations as long that mechanics is there. But easiest way to do it with mechanics is to steal old one from PS1 - the one used for cave turrets and switchblade.

What he said.

[Ravenclaw]

They really does need to be a delay on entry exit...

I mean imagine a 2x infantry men with a Anti-Air weapons piloting a tank with a anti-tank gun and a anti-infantry gun...

soon as air shows up they pop out lock on blow up the aircraft, then pop back in and carry on mowing down tanks/infantry.

[Canaris]

The devs were very insistent when they stated over and over that no E/E animations will be created for the game. They said it would take months to implement them, something they do not want to "waste their time on".

The community disagreed :D

[Ravenclaw]

The devs were very insistent when they stated over and over that no E/E animations will be created for the game. They said it would take months to implement them, something they do not want to "waste their time on".


Sorry but thats incorrect, in interview with Matt Higby he stated that they was no plans to add Entry/exit animations BEFORE release, but they are certainly considering adding it AFTER release as they are aware how much people want it.