Infantry Line's?

[Senyu]

What do you think of infantry lines like in the SOE videos of 10+ guys standing next to each other slowly advancing or defending a spot with firepower. I know it will be alot more common to run around as an individual but for the few squads/outfits that do it will be pretty awesome. Besides being a big target it would have some psychological effect to the enemies and of course feeling like a badass.

How many outfits plan to make use of this tactic and how often? Or how many times are you going to try to organize it :)

And doesn't just apply to infantry, say what you will do with vehicles as well. But I see it being naturally more popular with aircraft using this tactic than tanks or infantry.

[GreatMazinkaise]

It's not a tactic... it's a recipe for disaster.

[ElectroEsper]

Well, in theory, line formation is the best way to maximize fire power, but the best way to get kill to if you have nothing for cover (riot shield ？） or not being a "hard" unit such as tanks and Max.

[WiteBeam]

Like advancing ranks in the civil war? Terrible idea.
Use cover and concealment. Or die quickly.

[willaguy]

What do you think of infantry lines like in the SOE videos of 10+ guys standing next to each other slowly advancing or defending a spot with firepower. I know it will be alot more common to run around as an individual but for the few squads/outfits that do it will be pretty awesome. Besides being a big target it would have some psychological effect to the enemies and of course feeling like a badass.

How many outfits plan to make use of this tactic and how often? Or how many times are you going to try to organize it :)

And doesn't just apply to infantry, say what you will do with vehicles as well. But I see it being naturally more popular with aircraft using this tactic than tanks or infantry.

There's a reason real world infantry dont fight like that anymore. Guerilla warfare is the key.

[NoDachi]

There is a reason this doesn't happen.

[EisenKreutzer]

They do it in the trailers because they want to sell a shooting game, and to do that they generally have to show people shooting.

It's just a PR thing, nobody in their right mind would organise a whole squad of people to slowly walk in a line towards the enemy and shooting. They'd be dead in seconds.

Also, theres no psychological effect to this. if anything, you'd increase the enemy morale: "Look, the idiots are lining up! Let's see who can get the most kills, guys!"

[ElectroEsper]

Yeah in modern warfare its not viable at all since you get much more damage. But with heavy assets this might be worth a try, but not with infantry.

[Rico Suave]

*checks window*, oh, looks like I have to mow the grass today. *gunfire*

There's a reason why line formations haven't been used for more then 100 years. Cool? Yes. Effective? Hell no. Psychological effect? I'm gonna unconsciously hold down the trigger and spray hot lead into the line.

[Magpie]

LMAO! would be funny to see them all up and a sniper takes them all out in seoconds

[Senyu]

I know it was just to showcase the game and the reasons why you shouldn't. But still want to see some people pull it off now and then. Specially if its like 50+ people.

[Sledgecrushr]

This approach I think would work with tanks, since they are so large and cumbersome it would be harder to set up and fire effctively from cover.

[willaguy]

This approach I think would work with tanks, since they are so large and cumbersome it would be harder to set up and fire effctively from cover.

Yeah not Magriders though, those things need some space to move!

[WiteBeam]

The squad level tactic that you want to use is called bounding. While some members of the squad lay down suppressive fire towards the enemy and gain fire superiority, the remaining members rush to the next piece of cover. Then once they are down, the cycle keeps going "leap frogging" and closing with the target.
So there is constantly lead going down range keeping the enemies heads down, and the constant up, run, down rotation makes it hard for the enemy to actively engage.

[p0intman]

Like advancing ranks in the civil war? Terrible idea.
Use cover and concealment. Or die quickly.

This. Many times over. This with VoIP is far superior to any other tactic such as walking shoulder to shoulder. Coordination is the key to victory.

[moosepoop]

The squad level tactic that you want to use is called bounding.

one of the tr outfits made a video with them using this tactic. i dont know if it was real or for show though.

[WiteBeam]

one of the tr outfits made a video with them using this tactic. i dont know if it was real or for show though.

Black Widow Company has a video showing bounding over watch. It's kind of corny but you get the point. Bounding over watch usually works best with vehicles. It can be done with infantry, but not in a firefight. The guys in the video were running to far to the next point. It would have given anyone plenty of time to put them in the crosshairs and fire.

[Buggsy]

What do you think of infantry lines like in the SOE videos of 10+ guys standing next to each other slowly advancing or defending a spot with firepower. I know it will be alot more common to run around as an individual but for the few squads/outfits that do it will be pretty awesome. Besides being a big target it would have some psychological effect to the enemies and of course feeling like a badass.

How many outfits plan to make use of this tactic and how often? Or how many times are you going to try to organize it :)

And doesn't just apply to infantry, say what you will do with vehicles as well. But I see it being naturally more popular with aircraft using this tactic than tanks or infantry.

We're you born yesterday and can't tell the difference between marketing and final product?

Game is going to play exactly like COD, except on a bigger map. How organized does COD battles look like? Question answered.

[EisenKreutzer]

Game is going to play exactly like COD, except on a bigger map. How organized does COD battles look like? Question answered.

Play exactly like CoD? Exactly what game is it you think you are talking about?

[Kitsune]

Heh, we are mostly gamers, when we see people lined up or bunched together, we don't panic, we see multi-kill.

[Buggsy]

Play exactly like CoD? Exactly what game is it you think you are talking about?

I know this is all sci-fiy, and COD is like historical and stuff, but a FPS is still a FPS especially when they both have the same spawning mechanics, yeah.

[EisenKreutzer]

I know this is all sci-fiy, and COD is like historical and stuff, but a FPS is still a FPS especially when they both have the same spawning mechanics, yeah.

So you mean that since it has guns, and is played in first person it will play like CoD?

Ok, I can atleast understand that reasoning.
But theres more than guns and looking through a duded eyes to an FPS.
Theres tempo, for one. CoD plays very different from TF2, and both of those play different from Battlefield.
Then theres TTK, time to kill, which is very different from game to game. Halo is not like CoD in this respect, for example.
Then theres weapon performance, recoil, reload time, grenade mechanics and a whole bunch of other stuff that make these games stand apart and play totally different.

Don't underestimate the impact the scale of PS2 will have on gameplay. It's not going to feel like CoD, BF3, Halo or any other FPS on the market precisely because of how these factors align.

So no, it's not going to play like Call of Duty. Not by a longshot.

[Buggsy]

"Don't dumb it down"

"Don't dumb it down"

"Don't dumb it down"

"Don't dumb it down"

OMG you dumbed it down.


Don't underestimate the impact the scale of PS2

You overestimate the effect scale has on game play in a FPS game, in fact map size effects game play very little in FPS games. You got CTF, and you camp the spawn, there's really no difference between Quake/DOOM/PS/wwiionline/COD

[SgtExo]

"Don't dumb it down"

"Don't dumb it down"

"Don't dumb it down"

"Don't dumb it down"

OMG you dumbed it down.



You overestimate the effect scale has on game play in a FPS game, in fact map size effects game play very little in FPS games. You got CTF, and you camp the spawn, there's really no difference between Quake/DOOM/PS/wwiionline/COD

Why are you such a pessimist in every time you post?

[MrKWalmsley]

I know it was just to showcase the game and the reasons why you shouldn't. But still want to see some people pull it off now and then. Specially if its like 50+ people.

Nobody would ever be able to pull it off, unless they are fighting against an enemy 10 times smaller than them, and even then their losses would be horrendous. All it would take is one liberator and the entire group dies in seconds. Or a sunderer charging them from the side, or a sniper shot from the side, or a GG, or any aircraft with rocket pods, or a small group of engy turreters, or 10 Max's with AI weapons.

P.s. I love Mount & Musket, and I used to do line battles in the 92nd. I know it's not really relevant, but it's relevant enough for me :D

[GreatMazinkaise]

Why are you such a pessimist in every time you post?

'cuz he's got a PhD in Insane Troll Logic; he probably was an exchanged student at whatever school Stew went to for his.

[EisenKreutzer]

You overestimate the effect scale has on game play in a FPS game, in fact map size effects game play very little in FPS games. You got CTF, and you camp the spawn, there's really no difference between Quake/DOOM/PS/wwiionline/COD

Thats your argument? I was expecting more, somehow.

So you are telling me that the fact that there could easily be 500 people attacking one base, with 50 aircraft dropping dudes in power armor left and right will not in any way alter the gameplay dynamic compared to Call of Duty games?

That the fact that you can have whole columns of tanks doing battle against each other somehow magically makes Planetside 2 exactly like CoD?

Ok, then we're done here.

[frigamache]

Very early on in Planetside's life that type of fighting was commonplace. In fact, most battles were gigantic troop surges between opposing bases. This is when I enjoyed Planetside the most, personally.

This was prior to a vehicle "balance" patch which slowed tanks down, particularly the magrider (which was exclusively referred to as the Magmower), and made them take forever to die. I started losing interest in the original game after this. Another thing that contributed to this was the fact that players were not very high level yet, and had access to fewer vehicles. Outfits were in their infancy as well.

[DukeTerror]

Well like others said, nobody is goinnto walk in straight lines like that so nicely, but in my PS1 experience you can notice some general lines start to organicaly appear now and then between bases and towers. They wave and "bulge" so they don't look so organized, but still it's some sort of line.

[Seagoon]

the reason such lines appear naturally in PS1 is because they are formed along positions of advantage from a terrain point of view, with either a height advantage or a cover advantage or both.

Line formations as in 'everyone stands shoulder to shoulder in a perfectly straight line' is stupid. you will never find a good situation to do that unless physically blocking a door in a last ditch attempt to stop their entrance at any cost, and even then it would not work out too well...

A real line formation that might actually be useful is really rather a basic concept:

Your squad forms a line either side of the SL, this is usually not perfectly straight (cover and LOS is more important than keeping perfect formation) and it is definately not shoulder to shoulder with spacings anywhere from ~5m to ~20m between squadmembers depending on the situation.

The goal here is to alow every member of the squad a good forward fireing position with out any one getting in the way as well as to provide multiple angles of attack against a common target.

The spacing is there to stop the squad from all being suppressed at once or being taken out in a single grenade or cannon hit.

But the most important thing to remember is: these styles of formations are just a guide line, as long as you are keeping up with the squad and doing your job as dictated by your SL it is much perferable that you are in some sort of cover rather than in the open 'keeping formation'.

[Buggsy]

Why are you such a pessimist in every time you post?

MOO3, DirectX Surface Unavailable
Star Wars Galaxies, dumbed down
Diablo 3, dumbed down
Star Wars prequels, dumbed down

I'm not pessimist, I'm a realist

http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Optimist_b2e275_161262.jpg

[NoDachi]

I'm not pessimist, I'm a realist

Pwhahaha.

You're probably the most incoherent, illogical moron I've read on this forum.

[Ratstomper]

Diablo 3, dumbed down


:huh:

As if diablo wasn't already so easy a braindead hamster could play it.

[JimmyOmaha]

Let's organize a community event to do some line fighting battles!


Hops into Liberator

[Rico Suave]

Let's organize a community event to do some line fighting battles!

Only bolt action rifles, no scopes, three lines, volley fire.

[Marinealver]

In every combat there is a front, basicly it is the point of where an advancing (or defending) army has made contact with the enemy and cannot push any futher, not to say that there isn't an atempt such as flanking and jumps behind enemy lines to cereate a breakthrough.

[Bags]

Buggsy is a troll, why do you all respond to him?

Anyhow, why would anyone be afraid of that? if I saw people running in a line I'd see a multi kill :P

[Sabot]

Line infantry worked because of a reason as well... the weapons were weak and inaccurate by comparison, the other guys moved 20 people on a line as well, and they didn't know any better.

Today you can guide a 900 pound bomb dropped by a fast moving aircraft to hit the guy in the middle of that line specificly... or have a computer do trajectory calculations for your artillery to clear out your neighbours out house from 300 miles away with 50 pound shells... all detonating at the same time.

No walking on a line for me, thanks.

[Aberdash]

Muskets may have been inaccurate but they certainly weren't weak. Those things were like mini cannons. In fact most modern guns use smaller caliber bullets.

[fvdham]

You could park 5 sunderers next to each other and make a wall of metal.
But the phoenix ruined this.

[Sabot]

Muskets may have been inaccurate but they certainly weren't weak. Those things were like mini cannons. In fact most modern guns use smaller caliber bullets.

Yeah and if musket ammuntion had the armor piercing capatbilities of today I'd agree with you.... it doesn't matter though. We have smaller caliber bullets because we have smaller rifles with automatic fire. But show me a musket with a .50 caliber Saboted Light Armor Penetrator round... or a 50 cal Armor Piercing Incendiary round. :D
Dude, muskets are weak by comparision...

[GuyFawkes]

If only i could find a link to Stellerence's old video (INIElite tr player from werner) where he had a line of his outfit outside a tower , and he shot across the line with a lasher orb and killed all of them in 1 shot.

[WiteBeam]

I think we can all agree that SLAP rounds are the definition of badassary. Those are tungsten bullets for those wondering. But civil war and prior fighters had balls of tungsten. Give them our toys and they would whoop our butts.

If only i could find a link to Stellerence's old video (INIElite tr player from werner) where he had a line of his outfit outside a tower , and he shot across the line with a lasher orb and killed all of them in 1 shot.
There is another video I remember seeing back in the day when the lash from the orbs was rediculous. The video had some shots like that. There was also a VS shooting off into the distance and a Cloaker comes right up behind him to stab him and the Cloaker catches some lash from the opposite side of the VSs body and dies. Lol

[Sledgecrushr]

The only line infantry combat we will see is when the max rush comes.

[DviddLeff]

As many others have said - standing in a line without cover is damned stupid.

You want to talk tactics? Here are the formations (https://sites.google.com/site/planetsidetactics/5-formations) that can be used, but each of them is a rough guideline where the general shape is the key, but use of cover and concealment is vital for every individual.

[Tamas]

I hope some try this - they will think they are so badass right before I roadkill them all with a Lightning.

[Sledgecrushr]

I hope some try this - they will think they are so badass right before I roadkill them all with a Lightning.

Your lightning wouldnt last a second to the combined firepower of a dozen maxes. But yeah we would invite anyone to suicide drive into a wall of max units.

[Blackwolf]

What do you think of infantry lines like in the SOE videos of 10+ guys standing next to each other slowly advancing or defending a spot with firepower. I know it will be alot more common to run around as an individual but for the few squads/outfits that do it will be pretty awesome. Besides being a big target it would have some psychological effect to the enemies and of course feeling like a badass.

How many outfits plan to make use of this tactic and how often? Or how many times are you going to try to organize it :)

And doesn't just apply to infantry, say what you will do with vehicles as well. But I see it being naturally more popular with aircraft using this tactic than tanks or infantry.

There is a very good reason why the British stopped using line formations during the American revolutionary war. It got them killed.

It's not a viable tactic unless you were dealing with heavily armored platforms that can withstand that kind of onslaught for extended periods of time. BFRs might have done it had they ever formed up in large enough quantities and organized themselves. MBTs might have done it before BFRs became the top vehicle. As it stands MBTs will likely be picked apart too easily by loose infantry formations to effectively perform a line formation in
PS2, not to mention aircraft. And the only way a line formation would succeed is through numbers which I believe we ignorantly term "zerging".

As for aircraft doing it, that's inviting every flak based AA weapon within a kilometer for a feast.

[Ratstomper]

There is a very good reason why the British stopped using line formations during the American revolutionary war. It got them killed.

As for aircraft doing it, that's inviting every flak based AA weapon within a kilometer for a feast.

Exactly. The British used line formations because they were used to fighting in the open fields of Europe where two armies would have to march toward each other firing volleys. Fighting in the more rugged North American continent proved to be ill suited for that kind of warfare (and their nice, bright red unifroms didn't help either).

That said, I could see armor rolling in lines like this in open areas where planes could be shot down more easily and there isn't a lot of cover for infantry. As for infantry, people lining up like that are just asking to be mowed down.

[Darkace]

Actual us army still uses the line formation. However, for infantry it is used more for the final clearing of the objective