Griefing Costing Resources

[PredatorFour]

We have seen in the video`s that team killing is in the game but does anyone know if it will cost you rescources?? Say if you bought a tank and a friendly blew it up would them resources be gone?? I just had a terrible thought that with the game being f2p it could encourage trolls to do things like this if it does take your rescources. My mind needs to be put at ease lol

[Actor]

While I was at the community event I was team killed a few times. One of the reps/admins/PR guys noticed this and told me that they are looking at different ways to punish people that keep doing that. They just want to make sure that they don't ruin the game by being too tough on people. It's a fine line that they have to walk, but I feel confident that they will nail it!

[Lythca Frost]

I like this idea,

It could probably be implemented in a reasonable way as one of a couple griefing deterrents. Perhaps you lose resources equivalent to the cost of his gear/vehicle times the fraction of the amount of damage you inflicted upon him.

Thus, if you accidentally hit a friendly while shooting over their shoulder, you are not drained too much, however, if you are being careless and hit him with your shotgun, it costs you more.

[Braveliltoaster]

I liked the planetside 1 way to combat griefing it seemed effective

[Comet]

Agreed it's a fine line. Accidents are going to happen and you might catch a rocket from a HA that is actually trying to help you in your tank battle, or that Liberator might accidentally smash a few infantry with its cannon by accident during a gun-run.

For those tards just running around doing it on purpose though... that's different. In all honesty, I'm not sure what a fair solution is that finds a good middle-ground.

[Accuser]

That's actually a really good idea for vehicles at least. If you buy an expensive Galaxy or Sunderer and some a**hole on your team C4s it, you should get those resources from him.

I think you would need something extra for infantry grief though. Rambos aren't going to care about losing just a few resources by hitting someone, and we don't want to jack up the resource transfer or trolls would just jump out in front of people's fire to steal from them.

[Lythca Frost]

The most effective solution would probably be multifaceted. Something like this might do good to prevent jerks from intentionally wasting other friendlies resources, complimenting the old planetside system.

[Comet]

The thing that worries is me about the PS1 system is I heard that if you accidentally kill a friendly, you're more or less locked out for 10 minutes and useless. Like a res sickness effect from an MMORPG. 10 minutes is way too harsh IMO for a first offence.

As I said before, accidents are going to happen in huge chaotic battles and it's not fair to eliminate a player for 10 minutes because of a genuine mistake.

Disregard this if the first friendly kill is not 10 minutes, I just remember reading that in a previous post about this topic and PS1. Also, I've never played PS1 :)

[Forsaken One]

I love how so many people worry about team killing and punishing people who do damage to others BUT they always forget about retards.

That retards going to run in front of your tank every 5 seconds.
That retards going to run over or try to run past your grenade red flashing thing or not.
That retard is going to try to sprint through a doorway your team is firing at to keep suppressed and be killed by someone on your team.

Then there will always be that guy who will grief you by running in front of you every time you try to fire your gun because he just wants to be a jackass and have you rack up team hurting points.

How are these people punished? I honestly think people should be punished more for being stupid then just hurting others.

[GreatMazinkaise]

The thing that worries is me about the PS1 system is I heard that if you accidentally kill a friendly, you're more or less locked out for 10 minutes and useless. Like a res sickness effect from an MMORPG. 10 minutes is way too harsh IMO for a first offence.

As I said before, accidents are going to happen in huge chaotic battles and it's not fair to eliminate a player for 10 minutes because of a genuine mistake.

Disregard this if the first friendly kill is not 10 minutes, I just remember reading that in a previous post about this topic and PS1. Also, I've never played PS1 :)

PS1's grief point system was hardly that punishing... you have to kill multiple friendlies to stack up that kind of grief (infantry TK was around 100pts or so out of the thousand+ required to get locked) or alternatively grenade spam into a large group of friendlies.

[StumpyTheOzzie]

It's a totally simple fix! Make the machine do the thinky work, but basically the higher your grief counter, the more resources you pay for shooting a friendly.

People like me who spam thumper rounds know that by about 350 grief you're starting to look like a dick. So you set that level as 100% reimbursement. Anything over that and you get lockouts, reduced movement, banned from vehicles, banned from weapons, then just banned. If your grief level is like 50, then you pay nothing and a scale up from there. Every 3 grief points is 1% of the resource cost.

So a dude in a sunderer packing full custom kit gets accidentally TKd by a lib. no charge, bad luck, war is hell, you were in the wrong place, whatever. Lib grief goes up to about 50 points.

Same lib does it 5 times in 2 minutes - all of a sudden the lib bomber goes into massive debt (negative resources) and tank drivers are paid out 35%, then 50%, then 75% then 100% of the cost of their gear.

Lib pilot gets punished but tank driver doesn't make money otherwise exploits.

[fb III IX ca IV]

Why not an easy way to report these greifers while still in game? (Because most people will not take the time to go to the website and fill out a form there, they may not even remember the username) Of course, those submitting false reports would be dealt with too.

[DarkChiron]

Costing people for team killing won't do anything to stop intentional griefers. If they're doing it on purpose they don't give a shit, so costing them stuff they don't care about will do nothing to stop them from doing it. However, it will help keep them from picking up vehicles to help them do it.

I think it can work well if it's coupled with other forms of punishment that are more meaningful and act to directly block the person from continuing their activity.

[Mr DeCastellac]

Rather than just deleting your resources when you damage another player, it should send your resources to them, proportional to how much damage you do and if you are a repeat offender.

That way if you spend 100 auraxium on a tank and a friendly blows it up, they would lose resources as punishment, and you would get some or all of your money back.

And it would scale up, so just shooting someone on accident might be 5 auraxium, but if you keep hitting them it would start costing more and more each time you hit them (sort of like in PS1).
*plink* -5!
*plink plink* -7, -10!
*BOOM* -50!

[Ninjacalypse]

True. Reverse Teamkilling (i.e. getting yourself TK'd intentionally) would be a valid issue if TK consequences are too steep.

[Sirisian]

Rather than just deleting your resources when you damage another player, it should send your resources to them, proportional to how much damage you do and if you are a repeat offender.
Trading personal resources isn't allowed. It goes against the concept of individual resources.

[Marinealver]

Sometimes it isn't the just the falut of the guy pulling the trigger for the Tkill. The guy who got himself dead is just as responsible. I know many of times I got a fireing line setup down a hall or a choke point and as I a blasting away someone runs right infront of me and gets killed. I'm like you see me shooting in that direction. Why would you step right in front of my rapid fireing gun?

hek the reflect damage in CoD was the worse. There were times I see someone greiving the TK system by just purposly running in front of someone shooting just to get them killed.

[Tatwi]

Sadly the best way to deal with it in the case of a free to play game is turn off friendly damage and collision. Bullets and characters pass through each other, immunity from friendly explosions. It would suck a lot of the fun out of it for legit players, but at least the arseholes wouldn't be able to troll the legit players.

It's a tough one, because people will abuse friendly fire and collision (and anything else they find they can use to be annoying). This is, after all, on the Internet... :(

[Sledgecrushr]

This system could be exploited by someone to get free resources. So my vote is no.

[Mirror]

What if instead of grief costing resources it simply reduced the multiplier and/or frequency of how often you get resources?

Multiplier: So let’s say with a grief level between 0 and 99 you have a multiplier of 1, you cap a base and say you get 50 units of resource but a friendly who was attacking the same base has a grief level between 100 and 199, he has a multiplier of 0.75 so he only gets 35 units of resource.

Frequency: So if you get say 10 units of resource every 2 minutes with a grief level between 0 and 99. Perhaps with a grief level of 100 and 199 you get 10 units of resource every 2mins 30seconds.

As your grief gets higher you get fewer resources over time and via node captures.

This would only affect the players with high grief and reward players who keep their grief low.

[Pyreal]

They should have a backlash system where you take the same damage as the player you shot.
You'll notice in games that have that sort of system, the players are a lot more careful about where they are spraying.

[noxious]

This is a bad idea. It will punish people playing legitimately for accidentally killing teammates (by taking away resources they want and need) and be irrelevant to intentional team killers (by taking away resources they don't have and don't need to team kill).

[Blue Sam]

I've posted this before, but I suppose it'll bear restating:

Take the PS1 grief points system (with appropriate adjustments to make it fit PS2). If two or more accounts from one IP get above each threshold, apply that penalty to all accounts that are, or have been, on that IP. If it gets ridiculous, add some system of ban extension for each subsequent ban for each IP. (Say, first ban is 24 hours, next is 48, and so on). Should get rid of most of the griefers, excepting the tiny numbers willing to pay for a VPN to do it, after a period of normalisation.

[morf]

I've posted this before, but the best way to solve this issue is to fix the problem with the ps1 grief system:

In PS1, it took a relatively large amount of points to grief out. And grief decayed at a set rate over a very very long period of time. So a pure intentional griefer could cause a lot of mayhem in a short time before getting locked. Meanwhile, a benevolent player who played a class prone to grief (tank driver, thumper) and played the game a lot (8 hours a day) would need to walk on eggshells to avoid griefing out.

The productive way to look at this problem is to view grief as a percentage of your total damage. So in other words, you could keep your grief down by doing damage to enemies. Through testing, devs can determine what is an acceptable ratio of hostile/friendly damage. So for example, let's say it's 90/10 So if you do 10 damage to a friendly, you can lose those grief points by doing 90 damage to an enemy. If you kill a friendly from 100 to 0, you'll need to kill 9 enemies to keep that grief from stacking up. (Note that the numbers are arbitrary and devs can figure out what is fair.

This solution solves both the griefer and the hardcore tank driver problem because you can punish the griefer much earlier, and our insomniac tank driver hero can always work off his grief faster than he earns it.

Now just hook this up to the IP address rather than the account and you're golden.

[Darthkorr]

It's a totally simple fix! Make the machine do the thinky work, but basically the higher your grief counter, the more resources you pay for shooting a friendly.

People like me who spam thumper rounds know that by about 350 grief you're starting to look like a dick. So you set that level as 100% reimbursement. Anything over that and you get lockouts, reduced movement, banned from vehicles, banned from weapons, then just banned. If your grief level is like 50, then you pay nothing and a scale up from there. Every 3 grief points is 1% of the resource cost.

So a dude in a sunderer packing full custom kit gets accidentally TKd by a lib. no charge, bad luck, war is hell, you were in the wrong place, whatever. Lib grief goes up to about 50 points.

Same lib does it 5 times in 2 minutes - all of a sudden the lib bomber goes into massive debt (negative resources) and tank drivers are paid out 35%, then 50%, then 75% then 100% of the cost of their gear.

Lib pilot gets punished but tank driver doesn't make money otherwise exploits.

This with other methods. At least keep the greifers from grabbin vehicles. But add in some more methods on top of this.

[Forsaken One]

The productive way to look at this problem is to view grief as a percentage of your total damage. So in other words, you could keep your grief down by doing damage to enemies. Through testing, devs can determine what is an acceptable ratio of hostile/friendly damage. So for example, let's say it's 90/10 So if you do 10 damage to a friendly, you can lose those grief points by doing 90 damage to an enemy. If you kill a friendly from 100 to 0, you'll need to kill 9 enemies to keep that grief from stacking up. (Note that the numbers are arbitrary and devs can figure out what is fair.

If this does happen you should also lose grief via support activity's.

[redshirt]

Basically the greif system, but once you reach xyz greif reduce all damage you do by x% to everything eventually you cant hurt anything. Could also add a punish/forgive system in there as well. Get punished too many times in a short time kick them from the server for a period of time. 30-60 minutes.

Have the greif tick down at a scaled rate based on total grief acquired in the last couple of hours. So it doesnt hurt players who have the odd accident. ^***&$ i just shot down a friendly galaxy while trying to blast the reaver off his tail :huh:

Doesn't stop them from having multiple accounts but thats just hard to fix in general. Tracking a hash generated from hardware of the offending player 'might' help there...

Also like the idea of earning back greif with good deeds... killing enemy /healing friendlies etc

[Kitsune]

Could be too much work, but on a death screen a person could maybe press a button saying a teammate intentionally killed him. If there's more then 1 teammate that "accidentally" participated in your death then you could use that button more than once in your dead menu.

That button will only show up if a person of your faction is on your "Death By" list.

After 3-5 offenses from a single or various others, the guy will be instakilled and cannot respawn for 10 minutes. In a competitive MMO like this, that's harsh, but so is making everybody miserable for your amusement. If this time out happens 5 or more times in or around a week, then the account may be subject to suspension or banning.

That's my opinion though. And to be honest if you are hacked, that is an easy way to get banned. But just throwing out ideas.

[Ruffdog]

My $0.02

In PS1 an anchored Dual Cycler MAX, a role I played quite a lot in CC defence and the like, would quite often get loads of grief points at high pop times because of all of the dickheads that walk into the line of fire. A static line of fire.

Now perhaps the resource clawback idea here is okay because there is no lockdown/anchor feature to my knowledge in PS2. Griefing like I described above should be less likely.
But in close quarters there will be lines of fire that people shouldnt cross but hey, they will right? People now the hump the idea of kill streaks.

[Kezz]

AIUI, Grief gain will be:


Scaled up, the more you've got.
Scaled up, the faster you get it.
Scaled down with your rank, or some other measure of commitment to the character.

The converse will apply to the decay of your Grief score, and the multiplier that's applied to its gain.

This will mean that someone on a fresh account who goes round TKing for "shits and giggles" will rapidly be locked out, whereas a regularly played character will be able to sustain a steady stream of occasional "winging" of team mates (whether that's because they deliberately jumped in your way, or accidentally/clumsily) without consequence. The "legit" player will also be able to retaliate and grease the occasional TKer with very little consequence. It will mean the legit player will need to watch their fire, and lay off the trigger when friendlies get in the way, if it's properly balanced, which Beta will see to.

I like the idea of resource refunds for being TKed. It would have to be proportional to the damage done by friendlies, and also proportional to the Grief count of those friendlies, to stop exploits (being next to an exploding tank is pretty fatal; we don't want people pulling tanks, driving them into enemy positions and then having their friends concentrate fire on them to blow them up, for example, and then getting a free new shiny tank).

[Miniman]

Now thats an idea. Take away something people care about. Maybe even negative xp! Although, yeah, maybe only your accumulated grief is high enough, we've all been guilty of the odd friendly mow-down

[Ivam Akorahil]

i think there should simply be a temporary debuff, one or two tks are manageable, with the debuff lasting like 5 min maybe ?

but once you go to 5 or 10 teamkills the stacking effect of it makes it impossible for you to continue tking, either by reducing damage output to nothing ness + preventing vehicle spawning, or simply killing you and put you on a 10 min respawn timer.

lets say per teamkill you get a 5% dmg reduction, but it does stack up if you do another tk within 5 min so first tk 5% second 10% 3rd 20% 4th 30% 5th 50% 6th 75% 8th 100% dmg reduction, completely preventing you from teamkilling anyone for at least 5 or 10 minutes

and ofc with each tk the 5 min timer is renewed
what do people think of that ?

and in relevance to the OP

punishing an unintentional teamkill is bad, punicshing intentional tk by taking something away they dont care about is pointless. id rather couple it with with my aforementioned system, if the enemy has done around 3 or 4 teamkills in his timer refund the resources to the TKED

this prevents excessive punishment to accident kills but also prevents griefers from intentionally costing resources to the team in rapid manner
because we got to be honest, if i play bf3 i have at least 5 people during a 30 min match who die by running into my line of fire 1 meter in front of me, of course in head hight so its immediate teamkill. and thats not my fault so why punish me. maybe even omplement a system to punish those who cause me a TK by stupidness