Squad Spawn Beacons!

[Malorn]

I had asked Higby in the AMAA which seems forever ago about Squad Spawn beacons. Here's the question and Higby's response (in bold).

Do Squad Leaders get a spawn beacon similar to BF2142 that the squad leader can put down/pick up that allows a specific location to be the spawn point for the squad instead of spawning on the squad leader? This was a rather cool feature of BF2142 and allowed the squad leader freedom to move out and attack and not hide in a corner protecting the squad spawn.

Right now you can squad spawn on the squad leader, or if he's speced for it on any member of the squad. We don't have a beacon although it's been discussed.
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/r8ofp/im_matt_higby_10_year_online_games_industry/c4409a9


In the latest AGN @ 48:36, Higby answers one of the questions about where people can spawn in drop pods. The entire answer was quite interesting to me, but the bolded parts stood out in particular.

We want to create a sort of "Exclusion zone" around bases. And the idea if its tied into the territory control system and the influence system then the more influence you have on an area the larger the SOI (Exclusion Zone) that
a) Galaxies can't deploy in
b) Can't place squad spawn beacons in
So you can't squad spawn within that area and you can't place a deployable spawn point there.

So it seems that the squad beacon discussion they were having resulted in the addition of squad spawn beacons into the game. They were one of the features I really liked about BF2142, and I think they are a feature that can help speed up the game and put less necessity on AMS/Deployed Galaxies, though still have the same restrictions.

For those who didn't play BF2142, you could spawn on a squad leader, and the squad leader could optionally carry a beacon that they could throw down and you would spawn on that beacon instead of spawning on the squad leader. This was later given as optional equipment for Recons in BF3.

On the surface this seems like a great idea as a flexible spawn without the heavyweight Galaxy. Squad spawn beacons would also cost a lot less resources than a Galaxy, so they provide a spawn tool for a resource-starved empire.

The downside is the hide-and-seek aspect of hunting down a squad beacon, but like the Battlefield games they could easily make them emit some form of audible sound when you are near them, or show up on certain types of radar, etc.

Lots of options for dealing with them, but I think they are a great tool for keeping up the pace of the game and as a squad-level replacement for AMS / Galaxy. You get the AMS-style spawn but don't get an entire empire spawning out of it like you could with a Galaxy. Seems like it provides a much needed light-spawn source. It worked well in BF2142, and I think it could work very well here too.

Glad to see it's in!

[Saifoda]

I definitely liked it in BF2142. It's been years since I played that game, and I don't recall what the player pops were per map but I know it was pretty consistent with the typical FPS's of the day. That being said, I think it will end up being a good thing that bases will have a sort of dynamic SOI which prevents Squad Spawning for PS2. I say that because BF2142 had, what, 20 or 30 some odd players in a game at once? And even at that point (particularly in Titan mode) the squad spawning COULD be perceived as a little OP, rather than a boon to overall gameplay -- now imagine that on the scale of Planetside 2, with dozens of Squad Leaders in a single battle over a single base; it could make determining where the "front" is very difficult. Again, my opinion, but I think that would more likely be a hinderance than a help to gameplay. But I do see your point and I could see it working out like that; my gut feeling is not to agree, but we shall see -- and now we don't have to wait until "soon" anymore :)

[Zulthus]

Eh... it depends. It works well in match based games like BF yes, but not sure about PS2. Honestly I wouldn't mind as long as you can't place them in a base's SOI. Having an infiltrator run in, throw one down and all of the sudden a platoon rains down from the sky doesn't sound like much fun.

It's too much reward for too little risk, is what I'm saying. Galaxies work because they're huge and you know where they are, just like AMSes you have to drive them in. (whoops just read that 'exclusion zone' thing and that's what I mean)

But yeah, outside of bases is fine for me.

[Accuser]

now imagine that on the scale of Planetside 2, with dozens of Squad Leaders in a single battle over a single base; it could make determining where the "front" is very difficult. Again, my opinion, but I think that would more likely be a hinderance than a help to gameplay.

Previously, they were going to allow you to squad spawn on ANYONE in your squad (if the leader had the certs), restricting it to a beacon only will limit it further. Plus, there will still be a strict timer on squad spawn, whether it's on a beacon or the leader.

I think it's much better to have it as beacon-only. That will at least have all of one squad only spawning in one area, instead of anywhere that a squad member happens to be at the time. It will also help the squad leader to guide the squad. Nothing says "fight here" like forcing people to spawn in that location, instead of spawning on the dumbass sniper way up on the hill :-P

[NumbaOneStunna]

They are very good to have in BF2142. The only problem with them is that the RDX (C4) hoppers would boost into very high places and place them in places where it was hard or impossible for the other team to destroy them.

This on the other hand I dont see being a problem in PS2 because of the lack of RDX (C4) hopping.

[kaffis]

Nothing Matt said indicated that "squad spawn beacons" were deployable stationary objects. They could be gear the Squad Leader carries.

[TheApoc]

god i remeber c4 hoping, so lame but did it all the time

[Malorn]

With squad spawn beacons, Light assault and Infiltrators as squad leaders could be quite interesting. Light assault might have a unique role of being able to hunt down beacons in hard to reach places. Beacons may also have placement restrictions that make it hard to put them in bad places.

Also, the influence system of "exclusion zones" helps prevent abuse. Even if there's spawn beacons in crazy places they can be shut down by increasing influence (capturing surrounding territories). So unlike the BF games there's a dynamic way in which you can control enemy spawning through use of the exclusion zones. It's one way to add continent-level metagame and add importance to the influence and territory control system.

And of course you also have aircraft that could help spot and blow them up...

[DukeTerror]

He didn't specifically say that the squad beacon was deployable in that SOI question (and he was quite ADD the whole time, so easily to see how one can't rely on the subtle wording of that response). The "beacon" can still mean just the leader carried item that takes an equipment slot to allow orbital drops for squad.

Also, a dropped beacon could still be highly exploitable in PS2 as the defenders tend to loose air superiority so attacker can drop beacon at any nearby building roof to be unreachable.

[Bags]

I heard they can't be placed in the sphere of influence.

[Ruwyn]

gonna make any kind of spec ops behind enemy lines almost impossible if you can't take a mobile spawn with you.

Can you imagine tryin to cap a base with that new ticket crap without being able to spawn at all on death? You'll have to take a hundred people and have them constantly shuttling in to hold out for the cap.

[Malorn]

Might be important to note that Higby said the Exclusion Zones were around bases. They might only apply to the larger facilities and not territories in general, though it seems to me territories in general would be the way to go. We also don't know how they interact with overlapping influence. There's a lot of potential there to make it work.

Here's some clues as to how that might tie in.
our influence system is going to have more effects than just territory capture bonus, things like longer respawn times, vehicle timers, resource costs, sphere of influence for deploying galaxies so you have to be further out from a base to set up a mobile spawn point, are all things we're planning on being associated with the influence system - which effects and their degree will be tuned a lot during beta


Source: http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=749918#post749918

Respawn times matter here too.

Consider for a moment that Influence might have a certain range associated with it, and as long as you had any influence over an area at all, you could spawn there or set up a mobile spawn within range of the influence. The rate of spawn might then be tied to the amount of influence. If your influence is weak, then respawn rate is slow. If your influence is strong, then your respawn rate is significantly higher.

They could do a similar thing to give you tools when assaulting border territories.

Deep territories are intended to be more difficult to take, and to be taken by galaxy and sunderer drops of troops. You don't get to respawn but you do still have medics, so coordinated teams might be able to catch a territory by surprise and hold it long enough for capture. Once it's captured there's influence, and then you can anchor it with more spawn points.

I'm just speculating/brainstorming that bit, but my point is that there's lots of potential for what they could do here to build on the influence concept and tie it into spawn rate and mobile spawn options.

Galaxies and Sunderers should be used for assaulting deep territory. Plopping down a spawn point and then watching a zerg pour out of it is cheesy. I like the different levels of difficulty with deeper territories being more difficult but potentially a lot more rewarding - they could also scale capture rewards inversely with influence. And tactically adding an influence point deeper can create an influence swing in other areas and open up more targets and/or make another area significantly easier to capture.

All sorts of metagame goodness with that model.

[Kran De Loy]

+1 this thread.

I know I'm not adding anything constructive, but damn am I loving the ideas falling out of this thread.
The biggest part being that it gives LA a major support role again.

[bullet]

I've been playing a friends BF3 recently and I'm so glad they are doing the drop pod system for squad spawning. I get so pissed off right when I'm about to kill a guy, 1-2 people just pop right out of his ass and kill me. I'm not too thrilled about the squad spawning but atleast you can have some notification or some delay with the drop pod system before they just *poof* out of nowhere.

[ThermalReaper]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/theoatmeal-img/comics/minor_differences5/beard2.png
"By the oatmeal"

...This is how I see Higby now.

As long as it doesn't get stupid such as placing spawn beacons at enemy spawns(Did that in BF3 once) I'm fine.

[ringring]

The combination of a beacon and an exclusion zone sounds really great and removes all my previous worries.

If it is a beacon/deployed device then I don't think a drop pod thing is particularly necessary.

[MCYRook]

I really like the sound of this. Was extremely worried that big-ass Galaxies and drop-podding would be the only means of respawning for attackers.

Deep territories are intended to be more difficult to take, and to be taken by galaxy and sunderer drops of troops. You don't get to respawn but you do still have medics, so coordinated teams might be able to catch a territory by surprise and hold it long enough for capture. Once it's captured there's influence, and then you can anchor it with more spawn points.
I actually think it'll be more like the other way around. Spawn Beacons will be needed to successfully take behind-the-lines territory, because Galaxies are just such huge, obvious targets.

All speculation at this point ofc.

[Stardouser]

I've been playing a friends BF3 recently and I'm so glad they are doing the drop pod system for squad spawning. I get so pissed off right when I'm about to kill a guy, 1-2 people just pop right out of his ass and kill me. I'm not too thrilled about the squad spawning but atleast you can have some notification or some delay with the drop pod system before they just *poof* out of nowhere.

In BF3, it's not impossible to kill the 1-2 people that spawn on him, especially since there's no guarantee they will be oriented towards you. Of course, if you're a LA chasing a LA and a MAX spawns I suppose that's bad for you. Where was your own squad, anyway?

However...as for the idea that drop pods will give a warning...they might give a delay, but a warning? Do we know that? Will there be an audible incoming drop pod sound? If not, and you are chasing a squad leader, chances are you won't look up unless there's a sound.

[Malorn]

What we need is a voice macro for "Incoming Drop Pods!"

Ok on a more serious note, I would agree that some audible indication that a drop pod is coming down is important.


Could give Infiltrators gadgets that help them hunt beacons, or give that to Light Assault as a role enhancement.

[Xyntech]

Ok on a more serious note, I would agree that some audible indication that a drop pod is coming down is important.

I'd also love to see a bright flash in the sky right before a drop pod started descending, showing you the point in the sky from where it was dropping from in advance of you actually being able to visually spot the pod itself coming down.

One thing that drop pods should not be is subtle.

[Karrade]

The combination of a beacon and an exclusion zone sounds really great and removes all my previous worries.

If it is a beacon/deployed device then I don't think a drop pod thing is particularly necessary.

Yeah especially the growing SOI that is being considered, so bases that are just taken won't have it allowing the fight to be intense, but those that have been established for a while have one.

This all sounds perfect, devs listening to players, pretty amazing stuff.