Drop Pod Bombing

[ratfusion]

Hamma's new video showed us the mechanics of drop pods, they're slightly steerable, and do damage if they land on something (he stated that they've taken out vehicles).

It seems very likely we'll see infil squad leaders calling lots of squad mates at once, once in range of an enemy formation as a new first strike tactic. It looks fun, but highly abusable to me, what does everyone else think?

It does seem somewhat odd that they can land with enough force to do serious damage but not harm the contents.

[Logon]

Hamma's new video showed us the mechanics of drop pods, they're slightly steerable, and do damage if they land on something (he stated that they've taken out vehicles).

It seems very likely we'll see infil squad leaders calling lots of squad mates at once, once in range of an enemy formation as a new first strike tactic. It looks fun, but highly abusable to me, what does everyone else think?

It isn't a highly abusable tactic when the SL has to have a cert for squadspawn and it has a 5 minute - 30 minute cooldown

[DayOne]

It's just not an abusable tactic! No one seems to get this, the cool down is really long, you can't just rain down drop pods on the enemy.

Sure it'll be annoying if you get hit but just as annoying as being sniped, grenaded or rushed by an enemy squad.

[ratfusion]

Won't this spell the end of every deployed gal spawnpoint once found? Don't even need to bring your own AV.

I like the idea of spawn-on-squad, and would rather see it more frequent, without this mechanic, although it is very cool.

[fvdham]

5 minutes is short, I live longer.

[Snipefrag]

The solution is simple, make it do x amount of damage and not insta kill everything. Balance the damage to be 60-70% of a gal/sunderer's health.

[Rat]

I think while fun to do it will be exploited a year or so down the road, it will be just like the OS spam in PS1...deployed galaxies will be a favorite target of drop pods. the cool down will not matter when 80% of the population has it specced....you just used you squad spawn? Make lennymogrot squad leader.

[VSENSES]

I think this is a valid thing and due to the cooldown it's fair game.
:)

[Gonefshn]

I like this for sure, it's not going to be as bad as people think.

If your in an MBT and an enemy gets close enough to you that a squad mate can drop on you then you have already failed.

All this footage we have seen will be nothing like the final game, we are missing the huge numbers that will ultimately keep the fights at longer ranges with more distinct battle lines. This will make issues like drop pod bombing less of an issue.

[Nemises]

if its a problem, it'll show up within 1 day of beta and get nerfed..

...TB looked / sounded pretty frustrated when their Lib got podded, especially since it took them about 10 mins to actually get one spawned and manned...

..for my part, just from the media I've seen, podding is a bit lame, I don't think pods should destroy stuff they land on

[cellinaire]

if its a problem, it'll show up within 1 day of beta and get nerfed..

...TB looked / sounded pretty frustrated when their Lib got podded, especially since it took them about 10 mins to actually get one spawned and manned...

..for my part, just from the media I've seen, podding is a bit lame, I don't think pods should destroy stuff they land on

No harm at all, or toning down the damage?

[JoeDragon]

if its a problem, it'll show up within 1 day of beta and get nerfed..

...TB looked / sounded pretty frustrated when their Lib got podded, especially since it took them about 10 mins to actually get one spawned and manned...

..for my part, just from the media I've seen, podding is a bit lame, I don't think pods should destroy stuff they land on

They should at least kill the occupant making it a strategic decision. Waste your drop pod cooldown and have to potentially travel back to the location on foot and take out a Target of Opportunity or get to where you're want to be faster.

[Shadowrath]

This sounds like blasphemy...

[fvdham]

> I don't think pods should destroy stuff they land on

I saw a pod land on a Vanguard and kill it in PlanetSide 1.

And I guess its logical that a pod would to a lot of dmg.

Pod dropping was not a problem for vehicles in PlanetSide 1 because:
- pods dropped less frequently, you had to go the shuttle building to get on a drop pod
- pods dropped outside the base area, so the chance of hitting some1 was small

The best part of pod dropping in PlanetSide 1 was when an entire Empire
dropped at the same time at the same base. A massive rain of pods.

[Klockan]

5 minutes is short, I live longer.
Not if you die from droppodding on a tank. All they need to do is have every vehicle make a big enough explosion to kill the drop podder and they would think twice about it.

[DrShadowSML]

It makes sense that te drop pods destroy things since they are basically acting like a meteor, just smaller. But for liberators, gals, and heavy ground vehicles, it shouldn't kill it, maybe take 50% or more of the health.

[shadow58]

There is no way to be on the look-out for drop-pods when you are flying around in your Lib. Yet a drop-pod can instagib you while you are flying around in your Lib. Lame.

If it already happening now with super low closed Beta pop. Can you imagine how fucking suck it will when the game is at open Beta. :/

This.

It's cool if it's a really rare thing but it seems to be happening too much already.

In the new videos out yesterday, it happens to TB and it happens in Higby's.

I can see it getting pretty ridiculous as the populations rise.

We'll see in beta but I think this will need changing.

[Klockan]

This.

It's cool if it's a really rare thing but it seems to be happening too much already.

In the new videos out yesterday, it happens to TB and it happens in Higby's.

I can see it getting pretty ridiculous as the populations rise.

We'll see in beta but I think this will need changing.
Well, early release it wont be a problem since only certed squadleaders can call in drop pods. After that all you need is to up the cooldown or add a resource cost if it turns out to be a problem.

[fvdham]

- removed -

[Nemises]

No harm at all, or toning down the damage?

yeah, don't know...... I think perhaps no damage at all...
not very realistic, but...I dont know, a bit over powered otherwise (the ability to get to weird places..the ability to instagib tanks...)..

neat in concept, but even with a cooldown, people are going to be podding in all the time...it's primary function (transport of the player) should be enough imho..

..it's an idea that balancing will take care of in beta though I am sure, whichever side of the coin it lands on..

[NewSith]

I think if 2000 gather at one chokepoint it's gonna be very nasty. Hence I'm actually against droppods that instagib things. I mean - how is it any better than a cr4 OS? But hell, I'd rather say /wfb on this one. For Open Beta to be precise.

[fvdham]

Drop podding instagibbing is no problem if pods have to land outside the base.

[shadow58]

Well, early release it wont be a problem since only certed squadleaders can call in drop pods. After that all you need is to up the cooldown or add a resource cost if it turns out to be a problem.

But then that makes it worse for people that are just using it for spawning, and unless people think the squad spawn itself is imbalanced we shouldn't be doing that.

The problem is it's potential to be used as an anti-vehicle weapon, so if anything we should be reducing its damage.

[Xyntech]

Drop podding instagibbing is no problem if pods have to land outside the base.

Yep, which it seems will be the case with the SOI's. Hopefully the minimum sized SOI is still large enough to cover all major parts of each facility.

Out in the open, it's no big deal, because there needs to be a squad mate to spawn on. If there is a lot of cover, don't hang around in one spot for too long. If it's wide open, you're probably safe unless there's a cloaker who happens to have someone ready to squad spawn on them.

The only places where you're more likely to need to stay relatively still for prolonged periods are around bases and towers, so SOI's should keep things under control.

I wouldn't mind seeing squad spawners only be able to spawn on the squad leaders location as well, to further reduce the potential for abuse. It would also make the tactic be more legitimately like an actual poor mans OS.

The problem is it's potential to be used as an anti-vehicle weapon, so if anything we should be reducing its damage.

How about if it can kill anything up to a Liberator/MBT, but if it lands on a Sunderer or Galaxy it only does heavy damage. Additionally, the drop pod would be destroyed if it landed on anything more substantial than an ATV or a MAX, killing the person dropping in if they land on anything with higher hitpoints.

[Nemises]

Drop podding instagibbing is no problem if pods have to land outside the base.

since they've mentioned a dynamic SOI, I imagine that it WILL be possible to pod into a base, but Only once you own some / most of it?.. perhaps (for eg) if you cap a point (take point "A" from Hvar, which is an outlying tower I think?)..you will then be able to pod in and around that tower..ie. by capping that point, the SOI is reduced in that area to your faction..

...maybe..

[fvdham]

I wouldn't mind seeing squad spawners only be able to spawn on the squad leaders location as well, to further reduce the potential for abuse.

Yes I see squad spawning as a regroup options.
Meaning spawning on squad leader only.

But I also liked the 50 drop pods raining down on the Continental Commander.

[Xyntech]

since they've mentioned a dynamic SOI, I imagine that it WILL be possible to pod into a base, but Only once you own some / most of it?.. perhaps (for eg) if you cap a point (take point "A" from Hvar, which is an outlying tower I think?)..you will then be able to pod in and around that tower..ie. by capping that point, the SOI is reduced in that area to your faction..

...maybe..

Hmm, I hadn't thought about the flip side. Defenders dropping in on their own base because it's a friendly SOI.

A bonus for the defenders? lol

Even more reason to have them unable to kill Galaxy's and Sunderers in one shot, and to have them kill the drop pod if the target has too many hitpoints.

[exoteror]

Understanding it's beta and looking forward to testing it.

But initial viewing I don't think the drop pod should do damage to vehicals. especially being able to 1 shot a galaxy spawn etc. Although alot of it would be luck some people would specifically target spawns for the kill.

This feels like indirect fire with no way to counter which the devs say they are against.

[Mister Morden]

i don't like squadspawns in any way, because it removes the thrill to fly with a full galaxy to the enemy and the galaxy as a spawn point gets less important (i fear that it will get too much like bf3, where you don't have to think about how you get to the enemy).

[TR Oakley]

Imo drop pods should deploy a chute to slow down drastically when reaching a certain altitude.
A full speed vertical landing straight into the ground makes human milkshake of anyone inside the pod.

Three speed levels would be good. One in full dropspeed, able to obliterate aircrafts that fly around the height ceiling. One slowed down that will only damage them, and the last slowest part that makes the pod land safely and won't kill anything else than infantry and quadbikes.

[fvdham]

The PlanetSide 1 drop pod seems to have 2 speed levels,
it seems to slow down 10 meters above the ground.

I am ok with 3 speed levels.

[HeatLegend]

It's just not an abusable tactic! No one seems to get this, the cool down is really long, you can't just rain down drop pods on the enemy.

Sure it'll be annoying if you get hit but just as annoying as being sniped, grenaded or rushed by an enemy squad.

Exactly, and it's barely steerable so hitting an airship/tank is mostly luck as you need to find your target in the last few seconds and attempt to steer their way. Not to mention the cooldown, but yes it's definitely doable as has been shown in the E3 footage (although that just looked like a lucky hit, he didnt seem to steer at all).

[derito]

How about we wait a little to see how people actually play ? For all we know AA MAXes could be so common that drop pods won't be a problem even when there's no SOI active.

[Marinealver]

lol I acidently landed on an nmy AMS on a drop pod and had to wait for minuets as everyone was trying to kill me. Finally it oppened up and the Terrans that surounded me just pwned me after exiting my coffen.

[Accuser]

They should at least kill the occupant making it a strategic decision. Waste your drop pod cooldown and have to potentially travel back to the location on foot and take out a Target of Opportunity or get to where you're want to be faster.

That seems to be a pretty good balance. Though if it's too common, it should still be stopped. Honestly, that's exactly the kinda sh*t I'd love to do. Even if I didn't get credit for the kill, taking out an enemy vehicle and 2/3 enemies with my life is a good deal.

[Vanath]

I don't know if it happens every time now, but in this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=_dcfjVnLrgQ#t=256s) video the occupant of the drop pod dies when he uses it to kill a vehicle and then Higby comments that while you can use it as a weapon there is a sacrifice involved.

I'm much less opposed to them being used as a weapon if the occupant has to choose between dying to take out a target or landing safely.

[Reinari]

I think in Higbys video drop pod was steered off from its original drop zone by 20-30 meters. It is rather significant adjustment and that tank never saw it coming.
I felt like while it is nice idea something is wrong. Tanks and slow aircraft can never feel safe while near buildings even if that faction has air superiority in the area. There is no way tank can react. SOI will help but still... It is nice when you are doing it since tanks cost more than just a spawntimer but in tank crews point of view it is lame.

Squad pinned in a building by a vehicle could just kill that poor thing with one casualty. Maybe dropping guy dies again but squad medic can sort that out.

I would suggest a laser pointer or a beam coming from the pod so it would not come so out of the blue.

[Klockan]

Or just make drop pods less steerable. 5 meters total seems fine, then you would be able to dodge allies and obstacles.

[SztEltviz]

Wait for beta, we saw already many hours of gameplay video and maybe 3-4 droppod kills? That's rare for me. Besides if you directly steer yourself into an enemy position and even if you survive the landing, the teammates of the poor podded will kill you instant.

[Death2All]

I think that there's no restriction on where you can land and the fact that they instant kill vehicles is a little goofy. A vehicle driver must sacrifice resources in order to purchase a vehicle. A drop pod occupant must only certify into drop pods (which over time, must people will most likely have), wait for the timer and of course die to drop pod in. The dropper doesn't have anything to lose, other than a life since you apparently seem to kill yourself when dropping in. It's basically incentivizing you to die since you can fly in and instagib whatever vehicles are impeding your progress and clear the way.

I've yet to play the game, so I can't say how easy it is to pull of/how often it happens, but as someone pointed out earlier, we're only in a closed tech test/beta small numbers fight and it appears to happen fairly often. Once the game gets more people and these fights get more massive I can see drop pod bombing becoming a really annoying issue.

[typhaon]

I like this for sure, it's not going to be as bad as people think.

If your in an MBT and an enemy gets close enough to you that a squad mate can drop on you then you have already failed.

All this footage we have seen will be nothing like the final game, we are missing the huge numbers that will ultimately keep the fights at longer ranges with more distinct battle lines. This will make issues like drop pod bombing less of an issue.

I think that's a really important point everyone needs to remember when we're talking about tactics/effectiveness, at this point.

[Zemeni]

I'm not too worried about drop pods as Higby mentioned that they planned on having a region over bases where certain spawn limitations would be in place. Since battles over bases seem to be the main area where drop pods are a nuisance, the limitations could fix the problem.

[Rasui]

Yeah no, drop pods should not be doing damage. Random unavoidable death is lame no matter what game you're playing or how it happens. The fact that it can happen to vehicles like gals and tanks just makes it worse.

[RoninOni]

I think while fun to do it will be exploited a year or so down the road, it will be just like the OS spam in PS1...deployed galaxies will be a favorite target of drop pods. the cool down will not matter when 80% of the population has it specced....you just used you squad spawn? Make lennymogrot squad leader.

Cooldown is on the player, not the squad leader.

If YOU have drop pod spawned in the last 5-X minutes... then you can't do it again.

It's not like the game is set in stone anyways. Control of the drop pod, damage dealt by the pod, and potential damage TO the pod are all variables subject to change... as well as the cooldown duration.

If you think it might be a problem, get an outfit together and try and prove it.

[noxious]

The potential exists for it to become an issue, but we'll need to wait and see how it plays out. It's certainly something that can be adjusted so that it can't be abused (assuming that it can be abused presently).

I'm rather curious about drop pods landing on top of deployed galaxies. I suspect they'll have to be given some form of special protection from the tactic, but we'll see.

[RoninOni]

The potential exists for it to become an issue, but we'll need to wait and see how it plays out. It's certainly something that can be adjusted so that it can't be abused (assuming that it can be abused presently).

I'm rather curious about drop pods landing on top of deployed galaxies. I suspect they'll have to be given some form of special protection from the tactic, but we'll see.

IMO if it becomes problematic you should just have the pods subject to damage.

In that case you could use it to take out aircraft or tanks but at the cost of your own life (and the cooldown then means you're hoofing it back to the front)

Deployed galaxies shouldn't be destroyed.... maybe take some damage.

[Fanglord]

Tbf I cant see them being 'highly' moveable, the ability to direct the drop pod doesnt mean your gonna get pin point accuracy.

[Zebasiz]

They could make it so the deployed galaxy's shield resists the drop pods. Either by largly reducing their damage on impact or simply making them bounce as if they're landing on a building.

[p0intman]

You guys think so simply...


/me shakes head

[MrBloodworth]

Really liked dropping on fools in Section 8. Thankfully they are bringing back the SOI or exclusion zone back.

[Synnoc]

Since drop pods are being thought of like weapons, why not treat them like weapons? Make them do X amount of damage upon a hit modified by hitbox location and Y damage to the podder due to the collision.

However, like all weapons, give it a customization counter. Give vehicles and aircraft an anti-pod point defense sidegrade, which means almost no damage to the vehicle and a confirmed kill of the podder. Add some bells to the point defense to bring it to par with other sidegrades (maybe reduce rocket damage or really increase top armor or something) and boom problem solved.

The podder has to decide whether to risk death to do damage; it's no longer a no-brainer to try and hit things on the way down.

[Simwan]

I'm not sure if anyone has brought it up yet, due to the focus on possible abuse of the drop pod as a weapon, but what about accidental friendly "drop-pod" fire?

Say a couple squads are organizing and getting ready for attack. Tanks are pulled and everyone is getting ready to head out. A few guys just died and need to catch up with the group and decide to squad spawn.

Suddenly multiple friendly pods are raining down on your group of tanks and other assorted vehicles. If the pods are not easily steerable as many claim, won't this quite possible result in a lot of friendly infantry and/or vehicles destroyed?

You might say that you could make sure your friends know not to do this, but squadmates that join up through the mission system might not know better. It just seems like the potential for friendly fire from drop pods might be even more dangerous than enemy drop pods.

Just my thoughts.

[Sturmhardt]

I dont really like it... its more like a lucky shot if you kill something with it and I dont really like a lot of luck in games...

[Sephirex]

I'd be more worried about a galaxy full of 12 squad leaders, with all 12 squads staring at their deployment screen, waiting for the go ahead to spawn.

[SolLeks]

I'd be more worried about a galaxy full of 12 squad leaders, with all 12 squads staring at their deployment screen, waiting for the go ahead to spawn.

I have used this tactic in comp 12 v 12 BF3 matches. Get all the squad leaders into a jeep, Drive to the enemy base, Jump out and "squad bomb" the base. Transport 12 guys instead of 4!

Then again, all you need to do is deploy the galaxy to get a similar effect.

[AzureWatcher]

You need to have the proper certification to do it.
The pod has a 5 minute cooldown timer. (subject to change)
The pod has poor maneuverability.
You die when you hit another player/vehicle on the way down.
The pod can also be shot down on its descent.


Seems balanced to me.

[EisenKreutzer]

It makes sense that te drop pods destroy things since they are basically acting like a meteor, just smaller.

You mean like a meteorite, but bigger. Meteors burn up in the atmosphere, and never reach the ground. A meteorite is a meteor that made it down, and they are usually the size of your fist.

I'm really sorry, but I just had to correct this. I was grinding my teeth through the whole thread.

[Sephirex]

You need to have the proper certification to do it.
The pod has a 5 minute cooldown timer. (subject to change)
The pod has poor maneuverability.
You die when you hit another player/vehicle on the way down.
The pod can also be shot down on its descent.


Seems balanced to me.

That would be balanced.
I've seen people survive after colliding on the way down, unless that's changed recently.
Also haven't seen any evidence of pod's being shot down. That would be great though.

[Pepsi]

As long as the pilots can see it coming then I don't see a problem, but I don't think that is the case currently.

[Badjuju]

Can we please stop with all the pre-beta over reactions until we are well into beta. Long cool down, needs to be certed, very limited maneuverability. I don't see it being an issue at all, especially when vehicles will likely be standing still very rarely due to all the enemy forces around.

[Sifer2]

It's like I have been saying they need to just make Squad Leader a class with Heavy Armor but no special shield or AV weapons. Something you can easily identify an kill then drop bombing could be countered fairly easily. They could also probably make SL abilities more powerful too if they did that.

Right now though yeah I see no reason every squad leader wont just be a fully invisible Infiltrator spawning people on top of the enemy, and drop bombing all their tanks. The cooldown on it is probably about the same as pulling a vehicle so it still sounds OP to me.

[Bags]

You need to have the proper certification to do it.
And everyone will have it eventually.
The pod has a 5 minute cooldown timer. (subject to change)
So does the vehicles it's one shotting.
The pod has poor maneuverability.
Debatable
You die when you hit another player/vehicle on the way down.
The pod can also be shot down on its descent.
I don't think this is confirmed.


Seems balanced to me.

reds

Can we please stop with all the pre-beta over reactions until we are well into beta. Long cool down, needs to be certed, very limited maneuverability. I don't see it being an issue at all, especially when vehicles will likely be standing still very rarely due to all the enemy forces around.

It has already happened twice in small numbers. Imagine with 10x the players

[Death2All]

reds



It has already happened twice in small numbers. Imagine with 10x the players

NO BAGS...OKAY WAIT...OKAY...ALRIGHT YEAH...OK WAIT...OKAYS LISTEN...OKAY...BUT .....BUT YOU HAVE TO CERT IT.


I think there's an inherent flaw with the new cert system when it comes to balancing things like this. Given enough time everyone and their dog is going to have the cert. It's not like PS1 where you're only given a certain number of cert points to choose and define your role. Now we have an unlimited number of points and everything is finalized, so theoretically, given enough play time you could certify into everything.

I'm completely dissing the cert system before someone jumps down my throat, I think it does a great job at incentivizing you to play with one character and enforcing that whole concept of faction loyalty. I just don't think "But..but..but you have to-to-t-to c-cert it" is a good enough justification to deduce that drop podding is balanced and won't be exploited. There's a lot of evil bastards out there that I know will abuse the hell of out something like this.