T-Ray on Vehicle Animations issues

[Bags]

In this interview at around 46 minutes http://www.twonkhammer.com/686/rebel-auraxis-radio-ep-1-planetside-2-podcast/

T-Ray clarifies that at launch you must cert to be able to switch seats as the driver, and you must cert to get into your vehicle fast; he mentions a timer to get in instead of entering animations.

He said for the builds at the playtest they were able to get in without waiting.

Also, animation are nowhere in the near future.

[Sephirex]

Good info.

That clarifies quite a few debates going on.

Thanks Bags!

[sylphaen]

Thanks Mag ! Great news.

Choosing the right modules will be fun.
:)

[EisenKreutzer]

I approve of this.

[Bags]

He also mentions having badges/achievements for vets/beta players. Not completely nailed down.

[Shadowrath]

Good to hear. Thanks for the info.

[Sephirex]

He also mentions having badges/achievements for vets/beta players. Not completely nailed down.

Lost my vet account, but I'll take that Beta badge.

[Raymac]

So in otherwords, T-Ray said "We got this"

[EisenKreutzer]

http://i.imgur.com/6sCW3.jpg

[Death2All]

This is nice to hear, but it still doesn't quite solve the issue. Going back to the drop pod thread (not to derail this thread but...) everyone will eventually have it certed, given enough play time. Especially considering what an advantage it brings to the table, I'm sure it will be among one of the first certs people get with their tanks, assuming that you don't have to unlock several other certs to unlock the quick enter one, which maybe be the case. Even still, the issue still remains, regardless of the roadblocks that they may have put in place.

[Talek Krell]

T-Ray clarifies that at launch you must cert to be able to switch seats as the driver, and you must cert to get into your vehicle fast; he mentions a timer to get in instead of entering animations.More restrictive than I thought. Interesting.

Thanks for the thread. :love:

For disambiguation, the certs in this case would essentially be part of the vehicle loadout, correct? So you choose X number of your available certs when you buy a vehicle?

[MrBloodworth]

That's something, however I hope those certs are towards the end of the progression.

Its good to hear they understand the issues.

[Bags]

This is nice to hear, but it still doesn't quite solve the issue. Going back to the drop pod thread (not to derail this thread but...) everyone will eventually have it certed, given enough play time. Especially considering what an advantage it brings to the table, I'm sure it will be among one of the first certs people get with their tanks, assuming that you don't have to unlock several other certs to unlock the quick enter one, which maybe be the case. Even still, the issue still remains, regardless of the roadblocks that they may have put in place.

I think the biggest thing is you can't use every cert at once, so this means to have instant get in/out/switch you need to give something up.

But it needs to be something big...

[Death2All]

I think the biggest thing is you can't use every cert at once, so this means to have instant get in/out/switch you need to give something up.

But it needs to be something big...

Yeah, that's one thing I didn't consider. You might have to give up something like that Flares or auto repair in order to switch seats or get out really quick. But based on what I saw from the cert tree, it just looked like you spent certs on certain weapons or vehicles and upgraded some passive skills like top speed, handbreak, accuracy, etc. I just figured quick enter would be one of those certs you'd be able to passive upgrade and have forever.

[MrBloodworth]

I think the biggest thing is you can't use every cert at once, so this means to have instant get in/out/switch you need to give something up.

But it needs to be something big...

I guess that assumes the cert required is per Vehicle.

[Bags]

Yeah, that's one thing I didn't consider. You might have to give up something like that Flares or auto repair in order to switch seats or get out really quick. But based on what I saw from the cert tree, it just looked like you spent certs on certain weapons or vehicles and upgraded some passive skills like top speed, handbreak, accuracy, etc. I just figured quick enter would be one of those certs you'd be able to passive upgrade and have forever.

I'm not 100% on how it works, but I would assume you can't use every cert at once.

Because if you can eventually, than this is just bullshit put out to get us off their backs about this.


Who knows, maybe it's a utility slotted item?

[Sephirex]

I'm not 100% on how it works, but I would assume you can't use every cert at once.

Because if you can eventually, than this is just bullshit put out to get us off their backs about this.

I think the passive certs can be used all at once. But a lot of the certs also unlock equipment, which has to be traded out.

Maybe they could make this an implant instead.

[SixShooter]

I'm not 100% on how it works, but I would assume you can't use every cert at once.

Because if you can eventually, than this is just bullshit put out to get us off their backs about this.


Who knows, maybe it's a utility slotted item?

If it's slot like flares or the ejection seat then that would be fine.

[Stardouser]

Hopefully the game doesn't go too far on customizing everything and making everything a cert you have to choose. How you get into a vehicle should not be a certification or implant issue. It's basic game mechanics.

NOTE: The above statement is not supportive or detractive of the animation question. In other words, some mechanics simply have to be one way or the other. This is one of them, regardless of whether they do it the way I want it or not.

[wraithverge]

I imagine that changing seats and how quickly this is done depends on the certs of the vehicles owner once this goes in.

[Rivenshield]

T-Ray clarifies that at launch you must cert to be able to switch seats as the driver, and you must cert to get into your vehicle fast; he mentions a timer to get in instead of entering animations.

That's fine. From a gaming mechanic standpoint, that's all we really need.

[Galzus]

Not adding enter/exit animations is the biggest mistake they are making. Seeing people disappear and a tank magically start up is goofy as hell.

[Bags]

It's a lot of dev time for a little immersion.

[EisenKreutzer]

Not adding enter/exit animations is the biggest mistake they are making. Seeing people disappear and a tank magically start up is goofy as hell.

Nah, it works for me. Though I wouldn't mind entry/exit animations, to me they aren't critical or game breaking in any way.

[Goldeh]

I think the biggest thing is you can't use every cert at once, so this means to have instant get in/out/switch you need to give something up.

But it needs to be something big...

Oh wow, think I had a slow heart attack for a minute lol.

Swtich spots or insta-enter? Oh jesus..

[Galzus]

It's a lot of dev time for a little immersion.

They're always claiming they want to be "AAA". To me, they seem to be shooting for just "A" because they're too lazy to implement something so simple.

[Brusi]

I think the biggest thing is you can't use every cert at once, so this means to have instant get in/out/switch you need to give something up.

But it needs to be something big...

well... at the moment, the big trade off is entry/exit animations ;p

So much for all the "6 months after release" talk! I'm getting the picture, that this is pretty much it. After beta starts, the only new content we will be seeing will be purchasable in the cash shop.

I won't be too bitter about it though, cause it still looks like it's going to be an awesome game :)

[Sephirex]

They're always claiming they want to be "AAA". To me, they seem to be shooting for just "A" because they're too lazy to implement something so simple.

More like bad planning then laziness. They've already got most of their models built, but they didn't plan for the appropriate moving parts and they'll now need heavy rewrites to allow the appropriate animations.

[Vanath]

It's not something simple. What part of "a lot of dev time" don't you get?

They're focusing their time on other aspects of the game such as, you know, the shooting part. Animations would be nice but I don't want them spending time on them when they can be spending that time making the game better.

[Galzus]

More like bad planning then laziness. They've already got most of their models built, but they didn't plan for the appropriate moving parts and they'll now need heavy rewrites to allow the appropriate animations.

Not hard to edit a model.

It's not something simple. What part of "a lot of dev time" don't you get?

So the devs shouldn't work on this because it takes time?

They should just cancel the game then because everything takes time to make.

[Landtank]

Not adding enter/exit animations is the biggest mistake they are making. Seeing people disappear and a tank magically start up is goofy as hell.

I would love to have them in, but pretty much every other shooter out there doesn't have them so it's not that big of a blow honestly.

At your new posts: Oh please, that's SO much extra work for something that isn't even close to necessary for gameplay. Enter/exit animations are things that can be put in very far in the future, if at all.

[KTNApollo]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okPhRS8QUhU&feature=player_detailpage

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSS!!!!!

[Crator]

This is nice to hear, but it still doesn't quite solve the issue. Going back to the drop pod thread (not to derail this thread but...) everyone will eventually have it certed, given enough play time. Especially considering what an advantage it brings to the table, I'm sure it will be among one of the first certs people get with their tanks, assuming that you don't have to unlock several other certs to unlock the quick enter one, which maybe be the case. Even still, the issue still remains, regardless of the roadblocks that they may have put in place.

I'm liking the direction they are taking with this I think. It's going to allow them to see what kind of game play is produced on both sides, slow enter/exit vs. fast. They can tweak it then how to make it work properly....

And yes, I still want enter/exit animations! *Of course they will have to give the option to toggle them if they keep the cert to be able to enter/exit fast (or produce even more dev time to make the animations work in both normal and fast mode)....

[Galzus]

I would love to have them in, but pretty much every other shooter out there doesn't have them so it's not that big of a blow honestly.

So PlanetSide 2 should degrade itself because other shooter games are also lazy? IIRC, Halo has always had animations for entering and exiting vehicles, but they don't stop just because other shooters don't have them.

At your new posts: Oh please, that's SO much extra work for something that isn't even close to necessary for gameplay. Enter/exit animations are things that can be put in very far in the future, if at all.

The problem with waiting to add them is they're going to end up making more vehicles, and it will end up being even MORE work for them if they don't make them with E/E animations.

I seriously do not see the big deal of having them made for one of the first few major content patches before they start making new vehicles. It's a bonus, it's nothing BUT a bonus. It makes the game look that extra bit better, it makes it more fun, and more "AAA" which is what the devs want the game to be.

[Erudite]

@Galzus

So one game franchise has vehicle animations, therefore, the hundreds that don't aren't AAA? Also, are you really asking the devs to give their time (meanwhile, taking away from our time) to make one person happy? That business model would crumble every game company on the market.

Also, Halo doesn't have 50 vehicles to design animations for.

[Eyeklops]

TBH, I would have named it "Rebel Auraxis World Radio"...the acronym RAWR is cooler. Just sayin.

[Galzus]

@Galzus

So one game franchise has vehicle animations, therefore, the hundreds that don't aren't AAA? Also, are you really asking the devs to give their time (meanwhile, taking away from our time) to make one person happy? That business model would crumble every game company on the market.

Also, Halo doesn't have 50 vehicles to design animations for.

Not having visually pleasant features, in favor of silly warping, makes a game not AAA. A truly spectacular game pulls all the stops. Warping is lazy design.

PlanetSide 2 also does not have 50 vehicles to design animations for

and I am not the only one who wants E/E animations

[Sledgecrushr]

I like it. Its a path that us on the forums didnt really think of and really my faith in the devs delivering just went up another notch.

[Bags]

Galzus, they didn't plan on having them from the beginning, and now it will set them back a while to get them in and isn't feasible. No matter how much it's bitched about, we aren't getting them and that's all there is too it.

Sadly.

[Stardouser]

Not having visually pleasant features, in favor of silly warping, makes a game not AAA. A truly spectacular game pulls all the stops. Warping is lazy design.

PlanetSide 2 also does not have 50 vehicles to design animations for

and I am not the only one who wants E/E animations

This isn't a pure immersion issue where having it means they paid attention to detail and not having it means they didn't. Animations materially affect gameplay and by splitting animations up into their two basic functions we get:
1. Immersion
2. An entry/exit delay

Not everyone cares about micro-level immersion and many don't want the delay. And because the delay isn't conducive to swiftly-paced gameplay, it doesn't mean that games which don't have it are sloppy or "not pulling out all the stops".

However, since they DO have a time delay despite the lack of animation, THAT could be considered lazy, because by having a delay without animations, they cheese off twice as many people. People who don't want the delay are unhappy and people who wanted the animations for immersion are unhappy. The only people who are happy are the people who get upset that someone escaped from being shot and can't tactically adjust to deal with instant entry.

[Bags]

Not everyone cares about micro-level immersion and many don't want the delay. And because the delay isn't conducive to swiftly-paced gameplay, it doesn't mean that games which don't have it are sloppy or "not pulling out all the stops".


Almost everyone here wants the entry delay or an engine startup.

[Hamma]

Great find bags!

[Hamma]

They're always claiming they want to be "AAA". To me, they seem to be shooting for just "A" because they're too lazy to implement something so simple.

So I really want vehicle animations.

But you are ignorant if you think it's simple..

[Zulthus]

People who actually think that a 3 second startup sequence will ACTUALLY slow down the game at all. Come on, give me a break.

And TBH, I don't care about animations anymore. It's apparent they're axing quite a few features we all loved, but they have a deadline. It isn't their fault. Would have loved to have them but there's no point in giving a shit anymore. Different game, sucks that I had to come to accept that. But whatever. I support their decisions 100% fully now.

[Erudite]

Not having visually pleasant features, in favor of silly warping, makes a game not AAA. A truly spectacular game pulls all the stops. Warping is lazy design.

PlanetSide 2 also does not have 50 vehicles to design animations for

Wow. BF series is not AAA... good to know...

Also, how have you not heard of the word, "exaggeration?" It's fairly common. You should read books, and possibly a dictionary once in a while.

[Bags]

Almost everyone here hasn't played yet. I like LONGFELLA's post on the topic. He feels PS2 is too fast for the delay.

1.) 3 seconds isn't going to seriously slow the game down
2.) maybe the game shouldn't be so fast then?

[Kitsune]

Am kinda sad to hear there's no enter/exit aniamtions. Nothing but gravity is stopping people from jumping out of the aircraft if damaged now...

Oh well, thanks for the info.

[Bags]

Am kinda sad to hear there's no enter/exit aniamtions. Nothing but gravity is stopping people from jumping out of the aircraft if damaged now...

Oh well, thanks for the info.

You could jump out of planes safely in PS1. Now you die unless you eject or are LA or are like an inch off the ground.

[Galzus]

So I really want vehicle animations.

But you are ignorant if you think it's simple..

It's simple, just takes time. All it takes is making a bit of interior in the vehicle, a moving door/hatch, and the animation sequence that plays on a character getting in.

Wow. BF series is not AAA... good to know...

The BF series is probably one of the worst shooter series I've ever played. But I don't want to argue about it because this isn't a BF forum.

[Zulthus]

It's simple, just takes time. All it takes is making a bit of interior in the vehicle, a moving door/hatch, and the animation sequence that plays on a character getting in.

How long would it take you to animate several doors on several vehicles? Do you have any examples that you worked on?

[Landtank]

It's simple, just takes time. All it takes is making a bit of interior in the vehicle, a moving door/hatch, and the animation sequence that plays on a character getting in.



The BF series is probably one of the worst shooter series I've ever played. But I don't want to argue about it because this isn't a BF forum.

An animation takes SO much time, you have no idea. There's a reason the Vanu max animations took until TotalBiscuits first videos to be completed.

You're right, its SOOO simple, go do it then.

And if you think the BF series is one of the worst series you've ever played, then you need to reevaluate what you consider a good shooter. BF1942, BF2142, BF2 even, were all awesome games, heck even BF1943 and that was an Xbox Arcade game.

[Redbeard]

How long would it take you to animate several doors on several vehicles? Do you have any examples that you worked on?
I've did a little animation during university and I can tell you right now that animating something like a door opening or a hatch sliding out is quite simple, provided the mesh is already done; it would take mere minutes for an experienced animator. Creation of the character animation is a much more intricate job of course.

Regarding resourcing this, implementing this is almost entirely artist work, but my guess is that currently the art team is flat out making assets for the other continents, whereas the developers are busy ironing out bugs coming out of the tech test.

So, it's unlikely that we'll see this anytime soon, but the steps to make it come sooner are simple enough: Support the game (with dollars), and keep mentioning that we want these animations.

[Zulthus]

I've did a little animation during university and I can tell you right now that animating something like a door opening or a hatch sliding out is quite simple, provided the mesh is already done; it would take mere minutes for an experienced animator. Creation of the character animation is a much more intricate job of course.

Regarding resourcing this, implementing this is almost entirely artist work, but my guess is that currently the art team is flat out making assets for the other continents, whereas the developers are busy ironing out bugs coming out of the tech test.

So, it's unlikely that we'll see this anytime soon, but the steps to make it come sooner are simple enough: Support the game (with dollars), and keep mentioning that we want these animations.

Yeah, didn't even mention animating the guy hopping in/out. SOE should just let some experienced people in the community do the animations for them, and implement them if they're good enough.

[Redbeard]

Yeah, didn't even mention animating the guy hopping in/out. SOE should just let some experienced people in the community do the animations for them, and implement them if they're good enough.
I'd be very surprised if that ever happened. :D

Anyway, it's better to have SOE do it so T-Ray can oversee it and make sure it is stylistically and technically consistent. Can't have a mishmash of animation styles and implementations all throughout your project.

[GreatMazinkaise]

AAA isn't really a designation that indicates the quality of the end product; it's industry short-hand for a big budget overproduced game that can compete with movie blockbusters in terms of initial sales. You'll get glorious art and effects; gameplay and code, well, it's a crapshoot.

[Galzus]

How long would it take you to animate several doors on several vehicles? Do you have any examples that you worked on?

An animation takes SO much time

I take it neither of you read my post whatsoever, because I clearly stated that I know it takes a lot of TIME, but the actual work is simple enough.

And if you think the BF series is one of the worst series you've ever played, then you need to reevaluate what you consider a good shooter. BF1942, BF2142, BF2 even, were all awesome games, heck even BF1943 and that was an Xbox Arcade game.

Sorry for having opinions. Slow pacing between shootouts, super quick TTKs, having to rely on idiots, and atrocious vehicle spawns isn't my idea of a fun time.

[Landtank]

I take it neither of you read my post whatsoever, because I clearly stated that I know it takes a lot of TIME, but the actual work is simple enough.



Sorry for having opinions. Slow pacing between shootouts, super quick TTKs, having to rely on idiots, and atrocious vehicle spawns isn't my idea of a fun time.

I have read your post, but must emphasis TIME once again. Did I mention it takes a lot of time? You did too, but it takes a lot of time to do something like that, hence why it isn't in the game. Time isn't exactly on the developers side, and for future patches I would prefer actual content over animations.

Sorry you can't play those games, all I was saying is that there are FAR worse shooters out there than the Battlefield series.

[Stardouser]

I take it neither of you read my post whatsoever, because I clearly stated that I know it takes a lot of TIME, but the actual work is simple enough.



Sorry for having opinions. Slow pacing between shootouts, super quick TTKs, having to rely on idiots, and atrocious vehicle spawns isn't my idea of a fun time.

Battlefield is slow pacing between shootouts and PS1 isn't? Just wow.

[Galzus]

Battlefield is slow pacing between shootouts and PS1 isn't? Just wow.

Considering that PS1 is constant action and the BFs are "spawn, run a long distance because all the vehicles are occupied, shoot a couple people, die in two hits, repeat"

yes

[ChookWantan]

considering that ps1 is constant action and the bfs are "spawn, run a long distance because all the vehicles are occupied, shoot a couple people, die in two hits, repeat"

yes

trollolololl

[Retaliation]

I take it neither of you read my post whatsoever, because I clearly stated that I know it takes a lot of TIME, but the actual work is simple enough.

When you're paying a professional by the hour, time is the only factor that's important. Thankfully SOE has already done the math for us in how much of an impact that time investment would have on PS2s future development, six months. I'm kinda fuzzy on what they could work on at the same time so that's either six months of no progress towards any new vehicles (at best) or anything period (at worst).

When you can simulate the effects of adding animations at a fraction of the time invested, that's simply a luxury SOE can currently not afford.

[Landtank]

Considering that PS1 is constant action and the BFs are "spawn, run a long distance because all the vehicles are occupied, shoot a couple people, die in two hits, repeat"

yes

You absolutely have to be kidding me.

[Brusi]

Galzus... while I also think it is a great loss to not have entry/exit animations in PS2, this topic has been discussed to fucking death. It's obvious that it is not in the Dev's list "list of things to do before launch" and that there will almost certainly be no dev time put into it after launch.

It is so fucking pointless even arguing this in this thread, because it has been done before. I would suggest doing a forum search for "Entry/Exit animations" or something and do some reading.

Again, i applaud your passion and completely agree with your sentiment.

[Rago]

I also posted this Yesterday, as Postcast baybe we can merge the Threads ;)

[Nemises]

hmmm..that explains what I saw in the Higby gameplay (with Clegger controlling) vid from yesterday...

I noticed when Clegg got out of a lightning there was a reload-like timer, and wondered if that was some sort of exit delay...I guess that's exactly what it was..

...animations would be prettier, but they would cause SO MANY extra issues to the devs...not only artistic problems , but:
- needing to add indications for exact entry points on each vehicle
- you cant have a generic animation that works for all locations on the vehicle, so you need to execute it from an exact spot(s)...multiple animations per vehicle
- the vehicle cannot be moving.... and must always be perfectly still and 0,0,0 rotationally which would be a nightmare in a physics based world where the vehicle is allways acting on the forces it is under (rolling down a hill...lying on it's wing if TB lands it etc)..I doubt if a vehicle is ever truly still.

so yeah..the gameplay elements of entry/ exit delay are important...but the visual elements would be a problem for the rest of the game..

[Marinealver]

I perfer animations, It made the game more imersive, even if it is a moment of vunerability.

[RodenyC]

I'm not upset that the E/E animations aren't in game.It's the fact that Tray said no where near the future.That's what upsets me.So even post launch they don't want to do even though the community wanted it.That's what pisses me off.

[Xyntech]

Pretty cool. Much as I'd love to have entry animations, I'm glad to hear they are already on implementing the compromise.

Gameplay > Aesthetics

Animations are cool, but in this particular case I'm much more concerned about the gameplay aspect. Delays cover this, so all is well.

They've said in the past that they plan to modify the 5 year plan based on what players say they want. Right now I'm assuming they are just playing it safe and waiting to see what all of the non-PS1 vets want out of the 5 year plan before committing to anything. That just means that we have to convince the devs and the new players alike that they are a cool feature.

Considering that there will already be entry delays, I doubt that new players would be inherently opposed to adding a visual to the process. The only downside will be the development time and resource cost.

[MrBloodworth]

I would like to remind people, the BF series DOES have E/E animations for all Vehicles. In single player. They are not in Multi-player player, because the design is for people to be shooting all the time, constantly, forever.

I'm also fine with this Compromise by T-ray, however I dislike that it feels like the possibility of getting them post launch to replace the timers seems like it will never happen. Its a level of polish that needs to happen.

Again, my perspective, E/E animation removal is a reaction to far of the pendulum in the search for speed.

I am thankful the developers realize the need for a delay in thees actions.

[Stardouser]

I would like to remind people, the BF series DOES have E/E animations for all Vehicles. In single player. They are not in Multi-player player, because the design is for people to be shooting all the time, constantly, forever.

I'm also fine with this Compromise by T-ray, however I dislike that it feels like the possibility of getting them post launch to replace the timers seems like it will never happen. Its a level of polish that needs to happen.

Again, my perspective, E/E animation removal is a reaction to far of the pendulum in the search for speed.

I am thankful the developers realize the need for a delay in thees actions.


That's fine for single player, because that's really more like a movie anyway. After all, FPS single player campaigns are also pretty heavy on letting you duck away to regen health fast and giving you extra hit points, which are never present in multiplayer. Oh wait...well, BF3's multiplayer lets you regen a bit slower than single player anyway.

BTW, since there's a "delay", and because PS1's animation rendered you invulnerable, it has to be asked...have they confirmed that you're vulnerable during the delay?

[Figment]

This is nice to hear, but it still doesn't quite solve the issue. Going back to the drop pod thread (not to derail this thread but...) everyone will eventually have it certed, given enough play time. Especially considering what an advantage it brings to the table, I'm sure it will be among one of the first certs people get with their tanks, assuming that you don't have to unlock several other certs to unlock the quick enter one, which maybe be the case. Even still, the issue still remains, regardless of the roadblocks that they may have put in place.

Agreed, postponing the issue is not solving it.

Is what you get for not making people decide on how to use certs in the long run, ie. it's only a short term solution.