Newbies and the accessibility of Planetside 2

[EisenKreutzer]

Please don't start discussing the NDA-breaking video that spawned this thread. This discussion is not about the video, the guy or the NDA.

A recent thread, rightly closed by the mods because it referenced a breach of the NDA, managed to come up with some good points that warrant further discussion.

Specifically about what kind of experience Planetside 2 gives to complete newbies currently, and how that experience can be improved.

SurgeonX posted:

From the dev's perspective, this is actually quite interesting.
Without knowing it, this guy is performing a think aloud usabilty test.

He doesn't know what he's supposed to do.
He doesn't quite get the PvP aspect, and is concerned about where he gets quests from.
Discovers classes by clicking through each one.
He clearly doesn't get that everyone he has seen in the Warpgate is on his side, or he just doesn't care.
He wants to try out all his weapons straight away, even if it means team killing to do so.

Of course, the most pressing feedback should be how to solve the problem of what to do about bell ends who, within their first ten minutes will immediately team-kill, kill-steal and fire at Gal's because they haven't been picked up.

Definitely need a weapon lock in the WG though.

To which I replied:

This guy, not knowing what an NDA is aside, is actually the perfect beta tester. He doesn't know anything about the game or it's mechanics, he has no forehand knowledge about the game, and is in essence a blank slate. Thousands of players just like this guy will hear about the game, download it since it's free, and encounter the exact same issues he is encountering.

If we get lots of guys like this into the beta, the end result will be a smoother, better experience for newbies when the game is launched.

It is clear that currently, the game isn't very accessible to a completely green player. With no background from PS1, and not having followed the development of Planetside 2, a new player gets lost and confused by the way the interface is currently set up, the intro screen, faction selection and the way a new player is first introduced to the game world.

What can be done to remedy this? How could the game best communicate what kind of game it is and what it is about to a complete newbie, in as efficient a manner as possible?

[Stardouser]

I have seen multiple people who are in the tech test and who are not PS1 vets saying "where is the combat" and "where is the teamwork".

Now, as for where the combat is, I'm not sure if I would want more notification than PS1 gives or not. Too much help from the game is bad.

As for where the teamwork is, the squad interface window, for example, has GOT to be very accessible. That's one of the things the people I've seen talking about it have said - where is the squad join button?

However, at the same time, there does need to be some kind of tutorial that sets expectations. A lot of the teamwork needs to be accomplished through VOIP coordination and NOT the game telling you exactly where to go, that needs to be communicated.

And they better figure this out or there's going to be a lot of hair pulling by people who want PS2 to be their savior from other games.

[WiteBeam]

I think a little bit of background on the factions play styles would be helpfully in the beginning where it talks shortly about their history.
Also, a VR room and maybe some training like PS1 has.

[exoteror]

I am glad this has been brought up as it seemed an interesting discussion based on what we have seen.

The guy for a start needed information about the play styles of each faction, for all he knew it was simply their colour that was different and not weapon speeds etc.

To get the guy into battle I think a way point type system to certain terminals and then a way point leading to the most focused battle might be an option but at the same time overwhelming.

[SixShooter]

VR training and weapon locks in WG would go a long way to solve this. Of course you might need to have live weapons in the footholds so you can shoot your way out if you need to. If no weapon lock the at least no friendly fire in the WG.

[Flaropri]

There is one thing also. As far as I know, the "Mission System" is not yet actually implemented. As far as "generic quests" go that would be the main way for people to learn what to do in the game, however it relies on people knowing the interface, and recognizing what they can do, and it doesn't do that much to really explain what is going on and why.

Perhaps one thing that could be done is putting a series of terminals in the footholds, that could be interacted with to give basic information and a list of available missions (as well as how to access that information on the fly).

That could help out players used to the idea of talking to NPCs to get a tutorial of sorts while actually being useful but not necessary to use.


(Also, for Vanu's sake, put in weapon locks inside WG. Even without considering new player confusion that would cut down on griefing and anti-fun "4th-Faction" strategies.)

[EisenKreutzer]

I agree about the VR room. Some form of tutorial explaining what the goal of the game is while at the same time familiarizing the new player with the controls, base capture and vehicle controls would be a huge help in this.

Also, the strengths and weaknesses of each faction should be clearly stated on the faction select screen, so a new player can make an informed decision.

[GreatMazinkaise]

It's a tech test, not the beta proper, so only basic functionality is implemented. I wouldn't concern myself too much at this point, since logging in and spawning a toon onscreen is the main point of the testing going on now.

[WiteBeam]

What does this guy being clueless have to do with running the game on his spacific hardware though? This is the tech test, not beta.

[Stardouser]

VR training and weapon locks in WG would go a long way to solve this. Of course you might need to have live weapons in the footholds so you can shoot your way out if you need to. If no weapon lock the at least no friendly fire in the WG.

I was thinking something in an instance of the VR chamber that starts by showing a player how to change classes, where the spawn points are and how to use them(ie, if you aren't close to them when you die they won't be available, if that's how it ends up working), points out the VOIP and other commands, shows you have to form a squad and invite others, and how to join and puts you in a squad of NPC placeholders(not necessarily AI, could just be inert NPCs standing there), puts you in an outfit that only exists in your instance of the tutorial, etc. Should last 10 minutes and run through all this quickly and basically touch on it all.

[EisenKreutzer]

It's a tech test, not the beta proper, so only basic functionality is implemented. I wouldn't concern myself too much at this point, since logging in and spawning a toon onscreen is the main point of the testing going on now.

I think it's an important discussion to have. The devs might not have nailed down exactly how they wish to do this, and some input from the community, even before the beta proper starts, could always be valuable.

I mean, at this early point in time it seems to be an issue, and it's a good idea to preempt this sort of thing and get it nailed down. The game will only benefit from new players grokking the game, and getting this right early on means that they can focus on other things come beta.

[Hmr85]

They need to bring the VR back and place them in the foot holds for the newer players to the game. To help with the TK'ing they need to lock weapons while they are in the Warp Gates.

The small information screen they gave at the beginning could of been more detailed also with some better helpful advice. Last but not least they could bring back the ! icon over terminals and such that bring up info as the newer players that select them/use them.

[Aurmanite]

The original Planetside had a really steep learning curve and suffered from many of the same problems. If you were new to the game it was difficult to figure out what to do. The HART (shuttle) was not obvious, neither were certification terminals, equipment terminals, saving favorite loadouts, continental/global map, etc. There were some things you simply could not learn on your own.

All that said, the player in that video didn't seem particularly savvy about shooters, and perhaps video games in general. I am certain that the average Battlefield player would have opened the map and looked around. Plus, this dude had a screen telling him what to do, and he just closed it. Although judging by the way he struggled with the word authoritarian, reading might not have been that helpful.

[EisenKreutzer]

What does this guy being clueless have to do with running the game on his spacific hardware though? This is the tech test, not beta.

Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

This thread isn't about the NDA-breaking video or the guy who posted it. It is about the issue some of us see with the accessibility of the game. The devs might have plans for it, they might not, but it certainly cannot hurt that the community discusses this. Who knows, maybe we might bring to their attention something they haven't considered yet. Can't hurt, atleast.

[Aurmanite]

What does this guy being clueless have to do with running the game on his spacific hardware though? This is the tech test, not beta.

Please don't ruin this thread by being a whiny bitch.

[fvdham]

PS1 had a tutorial but it was broken after half a year.
So perhaps an intro video on world domination in PS2.
Also hotspots on the map.

[TheDAWinz]

Please don't ruin this thread by being a whiny bitch.

I second this

[SFJake]

He doesn't know what he's supposed to do.
He doesn't quite get the PvP aspect, and is concerned about where he gets quests from.
Discovers classes by clicking through each one.
He clearly doesn't get that everyone he has seen in the Warpgate is on his side, or he just doesn't care.
He wants to try out all his weapons straight away, even if it means team killing to do so.

Of course, the most pressing feedback should be how to solve the problem of what to do about bell ends who, within their first ten minutes will immediately team-kill, kill-steal and fire at Gal's because they haven't been picked up.


I have not seen the footage, but here's what I think:

The game really needs to make it obvious with big markers and huge warning, flashy sounds and alerts that says YOU'RE SHOOTING A FRIEND AND YOU'LL BE PUNISHED IF YOU KEEP DOING THAT. Something excessive that can be turned off or that will go away after a little playing time, after which there should still be obvious warnings that you should not be doing that. Ignore this, and be prepared for MASSIVE amount team killings, in my opinion. If its annoying, then its even better, because it naturally discourages people from shooting friends.

I understand that this might sound like a "patronizing" attitude for the game to take, and thats why maybe all this excessive warning should just go away with time/rank whatever. But the game WILL need to be strict and clear from the beginning about those basic, vital things if they want new players to not feel completely loss.

This should also come with easy identification of friendlies in general. Clear icons or text that enemies don't have, etc. This is especially needed with all the camo crap in the game. If the game does not have a sure fire way to identify someone has an ally regardless of factions, massive team killing ensured.

Thats my 2 cents.

[WiteBeam]

I second this

Cute.
Now can you two grow the fuck up and take my question seriously?
Your whole argument in the other thread was that it doesn't matter if he was a vet or not. So how is this any different? The tech test is only about different hardwares stressing the game. If not, then you might as well call this beta.

[EisenKreutzer]

I have not seen the footage [..]

Don't. It's a trainwreck, and it's an NDA breach.

[exoteror]

I belive the hardest part he found in the game was "where is the action"

But I did notice that there wasen't any hotspots on the map, maybe things would have been different if they were there.

[EisenKreutzer]

Cute.
Now can you two grow the fuck up and take my question seriously?
Your whole argument in the other thread was that it doesn't matter if he was a vet or not. So how is this any different? The tech test is only about different hardwares stressing the game. If not, then you might as well call this beta.

Please don't bring that thread into this one. The mods will delete any thread discussing a breach of the NDA, so let's not take any chances. :)

[TheDAWinz]

Cute.
Now can you two grow the fuck up and take my question seriously?
Your whole argument in the other thread was that it doesn't matter if he was a vet or not. So how is this any different? The tech test is only about different hardwares stressing the game. If not, then you might as well call this beta.

Lol! You told me.

[WiteBeam]

Kid. Stop acting like such a little shit and get back on topic. What the fuck is wrong with you?

The OP is talking about how that individual may have been a perfect candidate for beta in a way. I agree. But he wasn't in beta.

[TheDAWinz]

Kid. Stop acting like such a little shit and get back on topic. What the fuck is wrong with you?

The OP is talking about how that individual may have been a perfect candidate for beta in a way. I agree. But he wasn't in beta.

You're the one flipping out here :D

[Littleman]

Kid. Stop acting like such a little shit and get back on topic. What the fuck is wrong with you?

The OP is talking about how that individual may have been a perfect candidate for beta in a way. I agree. But he wasn't in beta.

The topic is the accessibility (in this case, tutorials in the basics) of the game for newbs. His (apparently abysmal) performance is separate from the fact it was a tech test.

To put it another way: This topic isn't about the video, the newb, or the tech test.

A new player being completely lost as to what to do or who to shoot is something else entirely, and shouldn't be ignored. I doubt most shooter fans walking into PS2 will be as bad as the guy in the video as people are making it sound. Note that I haven't seen the video. I trust most gamers can pick up on the basics fairly quickly, however. FPS gamers anyway.

[The Degenatron]

There's a good argument for the good ol' staple of gaming: The Introductory Tutorial Walk-Through.

There's no shame in having one, and it would solve all of the problems new players have. If they choose not to follow the intro, then they are at fault.

That said, an intro is something that comes late in the development because you need to have things set in concrete before trying to build the intro tutorial.

[Dsent]

Why should anyone give this guy's video a second thought? Sorry, but the problem wasn't that he was a complete newb. He didn't read any information about the game, tech test, NDA, and anything else that was there to provide him information. He had information pop-up on screen and he exited out. Tech Tests have rules about streaming for a reason. We don't know what else has been explained to players in the tests to jump to this irrational conclusion that Planetside 2 isn't newbie friendly.

[Dloan]

The reconstruction process results in disorientation and random memory loss. To quickly get soldiers back up to speed, a virtual reality "tutorial" is replayed in the soldier's mind. This negates the requirement that a tutorial take place in the "real world" so it can be as linear and as disjointed as required.

So, for example, it starts off explaining the background in cutscene, giving a run down of each different faction and then asks something like "Do you recall which faction you belong to?" after which you make your choice etc etc.

[OutlawDr]

Honestly, whether or not PS2 is in "beta", Im confident that video has some of the best "feedback" the devs have gotten to date from an outside source. Sorry to say, but hardcore followers don't make the best beta tester. Maybe for higher balancing, end-game stuff... but not so much for everything else.
http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/playtesting

I think new players need to start in the VR. Maybe even their own instanced VR, where they can mess about and the game introduces to them the various terminals, guns, vehicles and what do with them. They can shoot their weapons at targets, and get all the newb asshatery out of their system. I agree at some point they need to watch a video that explains to them the domination gameplay of PS2, and the mission system. Players need to understand that there are no NPCs or traditional quest givers and rewards. They need to learn how to squad up and work with their squad to take strategic points on the map for resources. Those first 10 minutes are crucial.

Things that I witnessed today..:
-Most tkers won't get past the sanctuary..heh (fix with weapons lock in sanctuary)
-New bored, clueless players will resort to TKing for fun (case for upfront VR training, and alarming, first-time notifications to not TK).
-New players are expecting hand holding quests (explain the domination gameplay of PS2 and mission system form the very start)
-Terminals and their locations need to more obvious to new players (terminals need to be explained from the very beginning)
-New players like MAX (new players like MAX <shrug>)
-New players are wowed by PS2 even if they don't know what the heck is going on (make sure the the game keeps up this momentum and doesn't lose their attention!)

[GhettoPrince]

That video was the worse thing I've seen on Planetside 2 in the past year.

This thread is the second worst thing.

[sylphaen]

DISCLAIMER: warning, talking about things I did not see, stereotyped comments and broad generalizations.
_______

The issue is also about which kind of players PS2 tries to attract.

With players older than 14 yrs who have an attention span larger than 15 minutes and are not braindead, it shouldn't be too bad. Of course, a proper tutorial would always help everyone to learn faster.

The issue I see here is between personalities of players. On one side, you have "casuals-who-have-little-time-to-play-but-will-get-there-eventually" (usually a nice kind of people) and on the other extreme, you have cases of "so-casual-trying-to-use-braincells-is-a-waste-this-game-sucks-Oh-shiny-wow-explosion-mmmm-donuts-what-was-I-doing-again".

It's a bit extreme for an example but you see my point: not all players are of the same quality.

I did not see the stream but based on comments: did we even know how old he was ? He could have been 11. Surprisingly, he did know about quest systems... maybe a Free Realms recruit ?

If age was not an excuse for him, I'll simply say that some people have the unrealistic expectation of learning/knowing to do/understand something instantly without putting any effort into it. Sorry but things just do work like that.

(I am not advocating that a large effort should be necessary to learn a game; just that some people are too lazy to learn how to enjoy something.)

This guy, not knowing what an NDA is aside, is actually the perfect beta tester
This is actually a good point. The game testers at SOE are too professional and rational. They should hire total noobs to know what goes in the mind of a clueless player (ie. someone who has never played a FPS).

It will help to develop the tools that will in turn help new (or stupid) players to learn how to enjoy the game they play.

Beginners are the blood of gaming. Without beginners there cannot be pros. No beginners, no future.

[p0intman]

All newbies need to have this hammered home:
This is a PVP game. There is NO pve. There is NOWHERE safe save for the warpgates. You can and WILL be shot at anywhere else, for no reason other than you are not of someone else's faction. That IS the content of planetside. I nearly had a blood vessle pop in my head when I heard him say 'Where are the quests?!'. The answer to that is simple, THERE ARE NO QUESTS.

[OutlawDr]

That video was the worse thing I've seen on Planetside 2 in the past year.

This thread is the second worst thing.

Nope, the irony is that video has better material for the devs to work with than the vast majority of the posts in these forums.

[sylphaen]

Nope, the irony is that video has better material for the devs to work with than the vast majority of the posts in these forums.

I disagree.

That video was great material to detect what PS2 lacked of in terms of tutorials and beginner support.

The posts on PSU are however pretty interesting when it comes to larger-scale game mechanics and battles involving >200 people concurrently AND the feedback from competent/enthusiast FPS players (I includes BF3/COD/PS1 vets so don't start playing who's being hated the most) who actually know what a FPS is.

I said enthusiasts because we would not be harping at each other and wasting countless hours posting around here otherwise.

[Renegadeknight]

Well I recall a vr from the original game. Just send them their to start and run though the basics. It may also be a good idea to have something similar to the shuttle once he enters the real world. Planetside 1 showed where fighting was occuring, if a newbie was told on the map in a similar way and allowed to start off by dropping in near by a battle, he would probably die quickly but atleast be able to figure out where he should go after respawn and that he should kill the people who shot him.If the action moves on all he would have to do is follow all the guys who are on his side.Once they become more experienced they may become more interested in the tactical and teamwork aspects of the game.

[EisenKreutzer]

That video was the worse thing I've seen on Planetside 2 in the past year.

This thread is the second worst thing.

Mind if I ask what you find so horrible about this thread?

[Bobby Shaftoe]

Instant Action mode:
Assign 'newbs' to missions, put them in squads with other people on that mission, spawn them at the nearest point to the objective (or on SL), rinse and repeat. You can't get more accessible than that, they don't have to do anything and they're in the thick of it having fun.

If they want to do the more 'advanced' things, let them opt out of the Instant Action gameplay and explore and learn the rest of the game.

[Littleman]

I nearly had a blood vessle pop in my head when I heard him say 'Where are the quests?!'. The answer to that is simple, THERE ARE NO QUESTS.

I called it in another thread: some of our newbs WILL be the MMORPG hoppers. Many gamers don't do research, so when MMORPGers jump into this game, they could be expecting another point and click fest that hand guides them with exclamation marks.

These people you don't really need feedback from... they're just lost. They saw "MMO" and wasted an invite that could have gone to someone that at least knew which genre PS2 belonged to.

[derito]

A little idea if you can have very basic interactions with NPCs at the warpgates : A man repairing something with a half-broken holoscreen above him displaying a big yellow exclamation point. Once interacted with, the man rant about soldiers asking him stupid question about quests and other nonsense. Then there's a tooltip appearing on the player's screen explaining how missions work in PS2.

[Minigun]

There should be no BS quests, the best thing about planetside is that it DOES NOT hold your hand while you play. I'm not against a tutorial teaching new players the basics and giving them an overview of the game but I refuse to agree with any shape or form of help (lolquestgoherewinxpderr) for those players who simply do not use their brain. It makes for terrible game play.

A simple tutorial room where players spawn for the first time after character creation would work fine, they could walk down a hallway with equip terms vech terms capture points and what not with onscreen briefings detailing each to familiarize themselves. Once done they walk through a teleporter and they are officially in the game forever. Also, MAKE SURE you let all the retards know that friendly fire is freaking on and if they do it after they teleport a freaking nuke will fall onto their house, jesus christ.

FPS's have been dumbed down so much in the recent future i will not be surprised when the next COD and BF start you out with aim bot. Don't let planetside become this too.

[Arrius]

The material being talked about in all these "tech test" threads are things that would normally be discussed during beta.

It's just another closed beta where they invite people whether they know anything about the game or not. They are just evading all the promises they made to the vets and guys with keys. As long as they don't use the word beta most people will believe them. They know they can't live up to anything they say so it's just crowd control.

[Sephirex]

The material being talked about in all these "tech test" threads are things that would normally be discussed during beta.

It's just another closed beta where they invite people whether they know anything about the game or not. They are just evading all the promises they made to the vets and guys with keys. As long as they don't use the word beta most people will believe them. They know they can't live up to anything they say so it's just crowd control.

The entire Beta is a lie. In fact, Planetside 1 never even existed! The memories were all implanted so you could form the core of the hype machine for this game. Now they're purposely leaving all of you out of it while feeding you fake footage to keep the hype going.

Planetside 2 isn't even a real game, either. It's an Illuminati training tool, to prepare you all for the Great War!

[TheDAWinz]

The entire Beta is a lie. In fact, Planetside 1 never even existed! The memories were all implanted so you could form the core of the hype machine for this game. Now they're purposely leaving all you of out while feeding you fake footage to keep the hype going.

Planetside 2 isn't even a real game, either. It's an Illuminati training tool, to prepare you all for the Great War!

I am ready for it! Bring it humans!1

[Goldeh]

I think, just putting down some pop-up tooltips, like they do for most MMO's is good enough. Tell the player to click this, click that. Have info pop up following them through the steps of how things work is good enough.

Beyond that, I don't think anymore hand holding is needed. Cos' if we have too much hand holding it's gonna be advocating derps:doh:.

I think, (don't quote me) on average it takes a gamer an hour to get a grasp of what's going on in a game if he/she is paying attention. Perhaps more due to scale and depth. (Tetris versus Skyrim ex)

The entire Beta is a lie. In fact, Planetside 1 never even existed! The memories were all implanted so you could form the core of the hype machine for this game. Now they're purposely leaving all you of out while feeding you fake footage to keep the hype going.

Planetside 2 isn't even a real game, either. It's an Illuminati training tool, to prepare you all for the Great War!

They have stocks in hell you know.

[Carnage]

arrrgghhh... I don't even know what to think... maybe this is, good, maybe this kind of thing needed to happen so the Devs can see it, this kind of issue could have been lost in a real beta because the noob would not have ever reported it, and with thousands of players it may have never come up... idk, and on the other hand if this is not beta and IS a tech test... why does Higby have no hair... from what I hear his hair cut should be "in little more then a week"...

On one side I'm sad I will be waiting another week at least, on the other I think maybe we just need to trust that the devs are doing what they are doing for a good reason and it will benefit all of us in the long run, PS vet, FPS vet and noob MMO player alike...
but I still wonder why Higby has no flowing brown locks is beta starts in a little over a week, this confuses me...

[Flaropri]

I am ready for it! Bring it humans!1

You sound more like VS than TR :lol:

[TheDAWinz]

You sound more like VS than TR :lol:

Ehh, I believe in the advancement of the human race by all costs and to eliminate anyone in the way of it in real life, but i want it under our own power and under a secure republic not some xenoscum. i'm a human supremacy dude.

[SUBARU]

The original Planetside had a really steep learning curve and suffered from many of the same problems. If you were new to the game it was difficult to figure out what to do. The HART (shuttle) was not obvious, neither were certification terminals, equipment terminals, saving favorite loadouts, continental/global map, etc. There were some things you simply could not learn on your own.

All that said, the player in that video didn't seem particularly savvy about shooters, and perhaps video games in general. I am certain that the average Battlefield player would have opened the map and looked around. Plus, this dude had a screen telling him what to do, and he just closed it. Although judging by the way he struggled with the word authoritarian, reading might not have been that helpful.

When I first heard about PS1.I read all i could about the game.Then when I got into beta ,I hit all the keys on the key board to see what they did,After that i was good to go. I never have a hard time finding out how to play.Some of thses guys i have seen play ( have seen 3 beta feeds) It looks like they didnt even know what PS2 is.
By letting all the noobs in this early,they will loose them to the game ,because they couldnt see how the game is really played and is all about.The game to them looks like RvR battle grounds.Where you run to flag to flag killing people on the way.

[TAA]

Wow. It is true then. I was hoping it wouldnt be the case but it seems like it is.

There is no tutorial for PS2 is there? Yet another game in which the tutorial will be a poorly done job made at the last minute as an afterthought.

Here is an article (http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134531/tutorials_learning_to_play.php) for any devs reading this. Read it. Use it.

[EisenKreutzer]

Wow. It is true then. I was hoping it wouldnt be the case but it seems like it is.

There is no tutorial for PS2 is there? Yet another game in which the tutorial will be a poorly done job made at the last minute as an afterthought.


We have no way of knowing wether there will be a tutorial in the game or not at this point, so going off on a tangent like this helps exactly no one. :)

What we can do, however, is discuss what the tutorial should contain, an how it should be implemented.

I think it is important to discuss this. There will always be players who download the game thinking it is an MORPG with first person shooting, or thinking it is a more traditional FPS, or having no idea what the game is about in any way. It's a F2P game after all, so the bar for getting the game is really low.

As far as I am concerned, the best approach seems to be the Virtual training area. Put the player in an instance, and teach them about controls, vehicle pads and vehicle controls, base capturing and teamwork (VOIP etc.). Make them understand what the core gameplay of Planetside 2 is as early as possible. That way they can see quickly if the game is for them or not, and since the game is free most will try it out for a while before making up their mind completely.

[Night]

There were no vets in PS1 and people could figure out how that worked. Its not rocket science really.

Most threads on this forums smell of bitter people who make up reasons they should be in the tech test. :rofl:

I am sure there will be enough tooltips and tutorials to make you crazy when you start a new character. 5 minutes after start they will be turned of because they are too obvious.

And as said before. They are testing the tech not the "new player" features.

[EisenKreutzer]

And as said before. They are testing the tech not the "new player" features.

Thats not really relevant though.

[TAA]

As far as I am concerned, the best approach seems to be the Virtual training area. Put the player in an instance, and teach them about controls, vehicle pads and vehicle controls, base capturing and teamwork (VOIP etc.). Make them understand what the core gameplay of Planetside 2 is as early as possible. That way they can see quickly if the game is for them or not, and since the game is free most will try it out for a while before making up their mind completely.

From the link I posted:

Learning Styles

Visual learners are those who learn by seeing information. These are the people who would rather read instructions in a book or see charts and tables about the subject than listen to someone talk about it. They tend to say things like "I see your point."
Aural learners are those who learn by hearing information. They would rather listen to a lecture than read the information in a text book. They often say things like "That sounds right."
Kinetic learners are those who want to be in motion while they are learning. They would rather be up and moving around in front of the whiteboard than sitting at a desk. They might say things like "That doesn't feel right."


Knowledge Acquisition Styles

Explorative acquisition people are those learners who learn by taking risks. They are the ones who push every button, and flip every lever. They want to find the risks and experience them.
Modeling acquisition players, on the other hand, want to know how something works before they try it. They need to know and understand the risks and ramifications before making the attempt. To do this, modelers want to imitate or "model" their behavior on something or someone they can observe. They want to see what happens when the required activity is done right and they want to see what happens when the required activity is done wrong. Modelers then want to try the activity to ensure they get the same results with the same actions.



A VR environment is only part of what constitutes a tutorial. It needs to have audio components. It needs to have visual indicators of different parts of the HUD. It needs to have AI models acting out the activity first so players can see what to do.


You asked how to first introduce a player to the concepts of the game. Lets see, how is this for some brainstorming:


Player loads game. Trailer for game pops up.
A quick video starts playing that flat out informs the player: "Planetside is a persistent large scale battle fought by thousands of players simultaneously. You will work with your faction to defeat your enemies and seize control of resources which you can use to purchase vehicles and to give your faction an edge in battle. Choose your faction." At which point they are taken to the faction selection screen.
After choosing a faction the player gets launched into a tutorial. They spawn in a hex grid that is a straight copy of an area in the game.
A voice tells the player to step on the blue colored plate to begin a tutorial, or to step on the red colored plate to skip the tutorial. Visual indicators pop up telling the player which keys are bound to movement, and the voice begins guiding the player on how to move (ie. press this key, move the mouse, etc). Making the player step on a plate (or walk through a hologram) already teaches the player that doing that action progresses the tutorial forward.
Three models appear in front of the player, one from each faction. The voice tells the player to recognize his enemies. It starts spilling propaganda about each one (ie. the Vanu are weak and inferior and their lasers cannot hurt your superior armor, etc). As it points out each model big glowing arrows appear over each one to indicate it. Meanwhile the player can shoot or do anything they want. If the player shoots a model they die and a new one appears. If they shoot an enemy they get congratulated, if they shoot a friendly they get warned that they are hurting their faction and that they will get blocked from firing their weapon if they keep doing it. Objective of this section is to teach target recognition. When ready the player can step on the colored plate and move to the next section.
Whenever a tutorial section ends a quick 5 second video appears. A voice tells the player that this is how things will really be on the battlefield. In the case of this first part it would be a video with dozens of players running everywhere and shooting each other. Purpose of quick little videos: keep player interested in tutorial process and make player look forward to the game.
Next they are introduced to the HUD. The voice points out each element, the visual indicators point them out on the HUD, and to emphasize the point AI enemies occasionally take shots at the player. Eg. "this is your shield, notice how it lowers when you are shot, notice how it recharges if you wait a while. This is your map, notice how the enemies appear on it." If the player wants they can just run off and start killing the pathetic AI enemies while going through the tutorial. If they just stand there they can just read and listen to the tutorial.
Next would be base and territory control, and spawn point selection. Quick guide to identifying what needs to be captured, how to capture it, how to identify hot spots on the map and how to spawn onto the hotspots. End it with quick battleground simulation making the player run between two capture points while 200 AI are blowing everything up around them. Nothing fancy, very little chance of dying, just something to give the player a taste of the battle to come.
After that would come a tutorial on vehicles. Let the players spawn whatever vehicles they want and fly them for as long as they want before moving to the next tutorial. After spawning each vehicle voice and visual guides illustrate how to use them. Let the players play around as much as they want with each one. Giving each vehicle a small mission might also be appropriate - eg. fly the Galaxy transport to the next base, take out the enemy tanks, take out the enemy aircraft, etc. End each vehicle with a five second video showing them how different it will be in a huge battle.
Last would be teamwork. Tell a player to follow a squad through some light AI fire. Emphasize the importance of sticking together. When the squad leader dies tell the player to guard the medic reviving him. When a tank shows up tell the player to protect the HA taking out the tank, tell the player to protect the engineer repairing a tank, etc. Finally teach the player how to spawn on a squad leader or on a galaxy transport, how to use voice comms and how to ignore and report abusive players.
Now that the player is ready automatically spawn them in the nearest hotspot of the game. They are ready for some action, so let them have it.



Something like that would be a comprehensive tutorial, and it would make sure people are not completely lost playing the game. Ideally though it would be done much better than that, including a lot of humor. Maybe a training bootcamp for the soldier complete with Full Metal Jacket style drill instructors. Think back to Portal 1. More than half of that game was essentially a tutorial.

[Greenthy]

From the link I posted:

Learning Styles

Visual learners are those who learn by seeing information. These are the people who would rather read instructions in a book or see charts and tables about the subject than listen to someone talk about it. They tend to say things like "I see your point."
Aural learners are those who learn by hearing information. They would rather listen to a lecture than read the information in a text book. They often say things like "That sounds right."
Kinetic learners are those who want to be in motion while they are learning. They would rather be up and moving around in front of the whiteboard than sitting at a desk. They might say things like "That doesn't feel right."


Knowledge Acquisition Styles

Explorative acquisition people are those learners who learn by taking risks. They are the ones who push every button, and flip every lever. They want to find the risks and experience them.
Modeling acquisition players, on the other hand, want to know how something works before they try it. They need to know and understand the risks and ramifications before making the attempt. To do this, modelers want to imitate or "model" their behavior on something or someone they can observe. They want to see what happens when the required activity is done right and they want to see what happens when the required activity is done wrong. Modelers then want to try the activity to ensure they get the same results with the same actions.



A VR environment is only part of what constitutes a tutorial. It needs to have audio components. It needs to have visual indicators of different parts of the HUD. It needs to have AI models acting out the activity first so players can see what to do.


You asked how to first introduce a player to the concepts of the game. Lets see, how is this for some brainstorming:


Player loads game. Trailer for game pops up.
A quick video starts playing that flat out informs the player: "Planetside is a persistent large scale battle fought by thousands of players simultaneously. You will work with your faction to defeat your enemies and seize control of resources which you can use to purchase vehicles and to give your faction an edge in battle. Choose your faction." At which point they are taken to the faction selection screen.
After choosing a faction the player gets launched into a tutorial. They spawn in a hex grid that is a straight copy of an area in the game.
A voice tells the player to step on the blue colored plate to begin a tutorial, or to step on the red colored plate to skip the tutorial. Visual indicators pop up telling the player which keys are bound to movement, and the voice begins guiding the player on how to move (ie. press this key, move the mouse, etc). Making the player step on a plate (or walk through a hologram) already teaches the player that doing that action progresses the tutorial forward.
Three models appear in front of the player, one from each faction. The voice tells the player to recognize his enemies. It starts spilling propaganda about each one (ie. the Vanu are weak and inferior and their lasers cannot hurt your superior armor, etc). As it points out each model big glowing arrows appear over each one to indicate it. Meanwhile the player can shoot or do anything they want. If the player shoots a model they die and a new one appears. If they shoot an enemy they get congratulated, if they shoot a friendly they get warned that they are hurting their faction and that they will get blocked from firing their weapon if they keep doing it. Objective of this section is to teach target recognition. When ready the player can step on the colored plate and move to the next section.
Whenever a tutorial section ends a quick 5 second video appears. A voice tells the player that this is how things will really be on the battlefield. In the case of this first part it would be a video with dozens of players running everywhere and shooting each other. Purpose of quick little videos: keep player interested in tutorial process and make player look forward to the game.
Next they are introduced to the HUD. The voice points out each element, the visual indicators point them out on the HUD, and to emphasize the point AI enemies occasionally take shots at the player. Eg. "this is your shield, notice how it lowers when you are shot, notice how it recharges if you wait a while. This is your map, notice how the enemies appear on it." If the player wants they can just run off and start killing the pathetic AI enemies while going through the tutorial. If they just stand there they can just read and listen to the tutorial.
Next would be base and territory control, and spawn point selection. Quick guide to identifying what needs to be captured, how to capture it, how to identify hot spots on the map and how to spawn onto the hotspots. End it with quick battleground simulation making the player run between two capture points while 200 AI are blowing everything up around them. Nothing fancy, very little chance of dying, just something to give the player a taste of the battle to come.
After that would come a tutorial on vehicles. Let the players spawn whatever vehicles they want and fly them for as long as they want before moving to the next tutorial. After spawning each vehicle voice and visual guides illustrate how to use them. Let the players play around as much as they want with each one. Giving each vehicle a small mission might also be appropriate - eg. fly the Galaxy transport to the next base, take out the enemy tanks, take out the enemy aircraft, etc. End each vehicle with a five second video showing them how different it will be in a huge battle.
Last would be teamwork. Tell a player to follow a squad through some light AI fire. Emphasize the importance of sticking together. When the squad leader dies tell the player to guard the medic reviving him. When a tank shows up tell the player to protect the HA taking out the tank, tell the player to protect the engineer repairing a tank, etc. Finally teach the player how to spawn on a squad leader or on a galaxy transport, how to use voice comms and how to ignore and report abusive players.
Now that the player is ready automatically spawn them in the nearest hotspot of the game. They are ready for some action, so let them have it.



Something like that would be a comprehensive tutorial, and it would make sure people are not completely lost playing the game. Ideally though it would be done much better than that, including a lot of humor. Maybe a training bootcamp for the soldier complete with Full Metal Jacket style drill instructors. Think back to Portal 1. More than half of that game was essentially a tutorial.

That'd be actually a pretty nice tutorial :)
Alot of modern games have a tutorial in this sence, the 2003 text-baloon methods are outdated

[LtHolmes]

I mentioned this before but I totally agree that there need to be something to help the newbies.

I think the most efficient way is to make the mandatory screens.. things like intro video or pop up text more on the minimal side. A dev could spend quite a lot of time on a video or put a tremendous amount of text in pop ups if they truly wanted you to understand most of the game.

On top of that even if a dev did put up those types of things a player only will learn if he or she wants to do so. It is really not efficient to waste all that time or whatever on someone who does not even care and skips it.

So for the players who want to learn I think that the tribes version is quite good. Have a minimal upfront tutorial in the beginning and put all the more detailed tutorials in a library. These videos would be almost like watching a fraps/cinematographic video of the dev explaining a tactic, map usage, terminals, bases.. whatever they want. You could access these online or in game.

As far as the VR room. I don't have much comment bc I did not use it often in the first one. I think people should be able to shoot in the base area and out from the base area if they want. Just make it apparent that there are harsh penalties for TK.

[Sikee Atric]

but I still wonder why Higby has no flowing brown locks is beta starts in a little over a week, this confuses me...

Because they'll have gone grey?

Tooltips, a tutorial, maybe even a 'Welcome Video....' All these things should, and hopefully will be added as the beta progresses, but for now the real cause of the Beta is to actually test the gameplay in an enviroment where the vast majority of players should have some idea of what is going on....

I've only played PS1 a few times and I'm going into PS2 as a noob, but I'm hoping there will be plenty of veterans there who can actually lead units and I'll be happy as a grunt for now. I know a few military tactics and I hope by the end of the beta I'll be more confident and able to offer some guides and feedback for the Outfit, with the intention of making my way up their ranks.

Hell, on launch day I might even make some Youtube Guides, with the aim of getting other noobs into the game.

In reality, the problem is when you have people who don't actually do any research into the game they are trying. Personally, I read a review or two and get an idea if I want to try before I buy, or just bite the bullet and go for it. But other noobs will be stupid enough to skip that part, then you get the pillocks....

[Griffevent]

"Hi, is this Plantside, the massively-multiplayer farming simulator ?"

"Wow, nice tractor you have there."

"This isn't the way turnips are sown..."

[Littleman]

As much as it goes against the meat of Planetside 2, if you look at Battlefield 3's campaign, it's essentially a really well camoflauged tutorial for the most part. You're introduced to movement, aiming, and shooting in the first train sequence alone and nothing in that area is complicated or confusing - the player just moves forward through the level shooting bad guys that can't possibly flank him.

If you think even further back, Tribes 2's campaign was very much the same way: a glorified tutorial.

However, I will admit setting up a training seminar within an instance of the world would probably be less time consuming. Pop ups don't work unless they're purpose is to be intrusive and annoying and generally something to avoid like the plague such as friendly fire. Look at Greenthy's post for reference on what to do. Making it sound like a boot camp with someone going over the basics with both audio information and interactive visual examples would best keep a gamer's attention. If people want to learn about the game by reading the info, they'll likely have done their research on the game before or while downloading it.

[Hamma]

The mission system among other game systems will eventually solve the issue of new players figuring out what/how to do things. That stuff simply is not in the game yet.

[EisenKreutzer]

The mission system among other game systems will eventually solve the issue of new players figuring out what/how to do things. That stuff simply is not in the game yet.

I completely agree, that is a vital piece, which we will see in action come beta.

[ShadowRatchet]

I think this video (http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/tutorials-101) explains quite nicely how a tutorial should be done.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

They need to bring the VR back and place them in the foot holds for the newer players to the game. To help with the TK'ing they need to lock weapons while they are in the Warp Gates.

The small information screen they gave at the beginning could of been more detailed also with some better helpful advice. Last but not least they could bring back the ! icon over terminals and such that bring up info as the newer players that select them/use them.

This. When I first started playing PS1, I found the whole sanctuary environment to be appropriate. You can't stupidly hurt other people, look over here is the training room where you can play with everything and test it against various unit classes... It was perfect. We need this back.

The footholds are fine, but we need this "sanctuary" environment integrated into them to some extent, or a separate "noob zone" to mess around in before stepping through a warpgate that takes you to the nearest foothold.

[Renegadeknight]

This. When I first started playing PS1, I found the whole sanctuary environment to be appropriate. You can't stupidly hurt other people, look over here is the training room where you can play with everything and test it against various unit classes... It was perfect. We need this back.

The footholds are fine, but we need this "sanctuary" environment integrated into them to some extent, or a separate "noob zone" to mess around in before stepping through a warpgate that takes you to the nearest foothold.

Got to agree, I think the sanctuary or a similar substitute would be beneficial to the game.

[Rivenshield]

He doesn't know what he's supposed to do.
He doesn't quite get the PvP aspect, and is concerned about where he gets quests from.
He clearly doesn't get that everyone he has seen in the Warpgate is on his side, or he just doesn't care.
He wants to try out all his weapons straight away, even if it means team killing to do so.
I haven't seen the footage in question, and I commend OP for positing these questions and trying to make the user experience more accessible to the average tyro in an intelligent, informed, and lucid fashion. I'm a tech pubs guy, so all of this is near and dear to my heart.

But holy mother of fuckballs! It's hard to escape the conclusion that this individual was a sociopath *and* functionally retarded. Fortunately such people tend to be few, but we still need to distinguish between those portions of the user base that:

a) Will start doing dumb things out of sheer boredom and/or frustration -- and let's not forget that shooting at friendly vehicles in a lot of games is how you get their attention. A brief burst of gunfire can be a pro-social thing. Hey! I wanna gun for you! I need a ride! I wanna do the teamwork thing! I'm tired of running...! And old habits die hard.

b) Can't or won't read something as simple as an NDA or even a canned synopsis of the game's premise or setting, and who will wander about gunning down people dressed just like them -- a gigantic no-no in any online game. There is no cure for mouth-breathing malignant stupidity. Wherever they do occur, such pimply-faced swine should be mass-reported, TKed into oblivion, and driven from the land.

Personally I think a bright yellow Instant Action button on the lower center HUD, along with a popup confirmation window if you click on it by accident, will do wonders. Get the buggers into the fight and let them learn on the job.

Also, yes, we need the VR training range back. You wanna experiment with TTK using different weapons on different targets? Go to town!

And hotspots were, and are, a simple and intuitive way of telling people where the fighting is and how extensive it is. We need them to make a comeback. I hadn't noted the lack, but the realization of it startles me. How are small actions supposed to metastasize into the giant clusterfuck battles near and dear to us if we don't know where they *are*?

[Broadside]

Random question that doesn't really deserve it's own thread: When SOE says free to play, do they mean that you pay for the game but not a subscription, or that downloading and installing is free and there is no subscription?

[EisenKreutzer]

Random question that doesn't really deserve it's own thread: When SOE says free to play, do they mean that you pay for the game but not a subscription, or that downloading and installing is free and there is no subscription?

The latter. You will be able to download the game and play it for forty years straight until the men in white coats come and take you to a magical happy-place where you get lots of candy, and you won't have to pay a dime.

To SOE. The doctors still need to be paid.

[Kezz]

The latter. You will be able to download the game and play it for forty years straight until the men in white coats come and take you to a magical happy-place where you get lots of candy, and you won't have to pay a dime.

To SOE. The doctors still need to be paid.

Of course SOE are hoping that you'll have spent all the money you would otherwise have spent on clothes, shoes, personal and domestic hygiene and extramural activities in that 40 years will have been spent in their cash shop buying funky leopardskin paintjobs for all your equipment.

[Rivenshield]

I have strong concerns myself about offering a free client..... but let's not derail the thread, please. It's been pretty good so far.

[Tvayda]

One thing I haven't seen yet in this threat was the intro of basic information that was presented during the actual installation of the game, like in PS1. After throwing in the discs and choosing where to dump all those messy files, a full screen image popped up with a paragraph or two of text and a picture or 3 to go along with it that explained the empires, the basic background of the game, and some general rules/how-tos (eg: terminal use). I'm not saying that should be the be-all end-all of PS2 tutorials but it could go a long way if done right to helping a newb get into the game in a meaningful manner that is fun for them and helpful to their empire, the NC. TR and VS newbs will be out of luck because they picked the wrong empire. JK JK, in all seriousness that and just getting thrown into battle in PS1 was how I became acquainted with the mechanics. And then I went back to the sanctuary and explored EVERYTHING that I wasn't already comfortable with. By that time I was already hooked to the gameplay and would be coming back for more (and more and more.....9 years later) that I felt fine stepping away from the action for a bit to go try the VR room and all the different weapons and vehicles.

Anyway, thats my 2 cents.

[TAA]

I think this video (http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/tutorials-101) explains quite nicely how a tutorial should be done.

Awesome video!

[ShadowRatchet]

Awesome video!

Thanks! Really, many developers should follow these videos in order to better understand players and what the devs may be doing wrong.