Vanu advantages/disadvantages

[BlackOriOn]

I have been listening and watching the discussions and the videos. I have not heard anybody really bring up how the light assault having jump jets and how that affects the VS and how the lack of water takes away our advantage of using maglev vehicles. In the original PS that was the VS advantage. We could attack a base across the water or jump up on a base wall or tower with jump jets on our Maxes and that was our advantage with the odd weapons that we possesed. I don't know the game dynamics in PS2 but other than line of sight weapons I havent heard of any VS advantages in PS2. The NC jackhammer is making a comeback and the TR cycler is returning, have you heard of any VS weapons making a comeback?

Thanks,

BlackOriON

[OnexBigxHebrew]

I have been listening and watching the discussions and the videos. I have not heard anybody really bring up how the light assault having jump jets and how that affects the VS and how the lack of water takes away our advantage of using maglev vehicles. In the original PS that was the VS advantage. We could attack a base across the water or jump up on a base wall or tower with jump jets on our Maxes and that was our advantage with the odd weapons that we possesed. I don't know the game dynamics in PS2 but other than line of sight weapons I havent heard of any VS advantages in PS2. The NC jackhammer is making a comeback and the TR cycler is returning, have you heard of any VS weapons making a comeback?

Thanks,

BlackOriON

Looks like overall maneuverabiliy ala halo covenant vehicles is the advantage in PS2. I think I remember higby saying something about them.

[moosepoop]

vanu has high mobility, and theres also the cool factor. if you are tired of modern military themes of tr and nc you might like the art style of vanu.

[SixShooter]

While the lack of water makes me sad:(, I still think that the mobility of the Mag is a great advantage. I think the Pulsar is already back in game but greatly improved and I'm pretty sure that we'll see the return of the Lasher along with the other ES HA weapons. VS are armed better this time around so having all empires with jump jets is not that big of deal for me.

We also have the advantage of being purple as everyone knows, being purple just make you better than other people.:rofl:

:vsrocks::cheers:

[vVRedOctoberVv]

They have hover vehicles that are in essence unaffected by rough terrain and can drift sideways. They have a flying MAX unit (I believe that is unchanged). They have lasers that do not suffer from bullet drop, and are near instantaneous, although they degrade damage with range.

And most important of all...

They are purple.

[lolroflroflcake]

You get a Cylon raider, a hovertank, maneuverability and no bullet drop as your advantages, learn to make the most of them cause you'll need it. :P

[Blackwolf]

They have hover vehicles that are in essence unaffected by rough terrain and can drift sideways. They have a flying MAX unit (I believe that is unchanged). They have lasers that do not suffer from bullet drop, and are near instantaneous, although they degrade damage with range.

And most important of all...

They are purple.

MAX suits won't have jump jet capability.

[SixShooter]

You get a Cylon raider, a hovertank, maneuverability and no bullet drop as your advantages, learn to make the most of them cause you'll need it. :P

OMG, I almost forgot about the Scythe! That thing is just badass and will be the scourge of the skies.

[ringring]

Vanu weapons are energy weapons and don't suffer bullet drop, as a compensation they do have degradation over distance.
How the weapons between empire balance out is unknown at present as the devs still have a lot of that to do.
It may be that the old PS1 thing still exists (I don't know), you know the one where NC HA is best over short distances, TR best at longer range and VS in the middle. ... time will tell.

[BlueSkies]

They have a flying MAX unit (I believe that is unchanged)..

Nope. Last report they were trying to think of a new special ability. Jump jet is light assault only.

Flying maxes was so OP compared to the other empire special abilities

[Rasui]

If I hear about bullet drop one more time I'm going to lose it. Lack of bullet drop is NOT an advantage! Anyone who plays this game for more than a week on the other factions will automatically compensate for bullet drop. Then they tack on damage degradation to boot? The only way VS weapons won't be total garbage is if they're INCREDIBLY accurate, and from what I've seen they don't seem to be any better than other factions weapons in that sense.

What good is no bullet drop if your weapons aren't accurate enough to consistently hit people at a distance where bullet drop would actually matter? What good is no bullet drop if your weapons do no damage at a distance where bullet drop would actually matter?

[vVRedOctoberVv]

@BlueSkies

I think "overpowered this" "nerf that" are terms people throw around far too much. The factions were split 33/33/33 so it couldn't have been too bad. It was different, not overpowered. Lots of things in life are "different", and in RL balance is self-attained. A is doing B. C needs to do D to compensate. Magic god beings don't come down to change the laws of physics so that B -/+ D. Rarely have I ever seen something many consider "OP" to be insurmountable, provided even a modicum of creativity was applied.

Of course, we all already know my theories on gameplay in general are wildly unpopular, being as how they lean towards "The real world"...

-@Rasui

Depends on how much the damage degrades. An easily "tweakable" feature during beta. Chillax.

[Badjuju]

I really hope they incorporate a side grade for VS rifles for say plasma rounds or something, which would suffer from bullet drop but maintain their damage. I really love bullet drop mechanics, but do not want to abandon my faction. I guess if they did that however other factions would probably want side grades providing the opposite, which would kind of diminish some of the faction differences.

[SixShooter]

Did I mention frikken lazer beams!
Sharks with lazers on their heads - Austin Powers - Goldmember - YouTube

[Rivenshield]

As a loyal Terran, I don't like that Vanu MAXes can't jump. That's just wrong and unnatural. There should be a cert tree for them to opt to lose half their armaments -- the gun on the left -- in exchange for a jump pack.

And yeah, the lack of water really screws them over. Hopefully some of these crevices and canyons will get filled with water one of these days.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

@Rivenshield

However, in their defense... The new VS maxes don't exactly look aerodynamic...

[Paski]

Also, lets not forget that their rifles sound like a guy smacking cardboard boxes..

[DarkChiron]

Also, lets not forget that their rifles sound like a guy smacking cardboard boxes..

inorite? They sound NOTHING like the real plasma rifles used today.

[Sifer2]

I agree with the guy above that damage degradation will only gimp the VS in ranged combat. Bullet drop from what we have seen isn't much an issue for anyone at the moment except maybe a Sniper. So that doesn't seem to be much an advantage for the VS.

Vehicles is a bit better though. Magrider still is able to strafe an cruise over bumps no problem. Water was always situational an will be on other continents. Scythe is also very mobile more than other jets. The MAX is still a mystery too we don't know what it will get. I'm guessing probably a faster sprint an better turn rate.

[FPClark]

VS Should be fine. The devs arent going to run a tech test and a beta and leave things super unbalanced.

[damijin]

Half the reason I played VS in PS1 is because we were gimped in beta.

I remember one of the beta changelogs saying that there was a "copy paste error" (thats exactly the words they used) and that the pulsar had accidentally been weaker than it was supposed to be for the first couple months of beta.

Gimp us harder. It will merely strengthen my resolve!

[FPClark]

Half the reason I played VS in PS1 is because we were gimped in beta.

I remember one of the beta changelogs saying that there was a "copy paste error" (thats exactly the words they used) and that the pulsar had accidentally been weaker than it was supposed to be for the first couple months of beta.

Gimp us harder. It will merely strengthen my resolve!

Yep I dont bitch in a game where i have a weaker class/team/whatever I figure out a way to use that weakness as a strength. ;)

[Rasui]

@BlueSkies

-@Rasui

Depends on how much the damage degrades. An easily "tweakable" feature during beta. Chillax.

I don't even care about the degradation, I just want the accuracy. Think about the cycler vs gauss vs pulsar for a second. Rate of fire at the cost of accuracy for close range damage, a mix of high damage with moderate accuracy for medium range domination, and accuracy at the cost of damage for long range. It's how it's meant to be.

Now they've suddenly changed the Vanu signature weapon trait from accuracy (Beamer/Pulsar/Lancer) to no bullet drop? Wtf? I'm not happy about it. Then again all this bitching could be for nothing, I'll have to wait till beta. It's just the lack of clarification and the way the devs skirt the question really bothers me. I don't feel like being the 'common pool empire' yet again.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I don't even care about the degradation, I just want the accuracy. Think about the cycler vs gauss vs pulsar for a second. Rate of fire at the cost of accuracy for close range damage, a mix of high damage with moderate accuracy for medium range domination, and accuracy at the cost of damage for long range. It's how it's meant to be.

Now they've suddenly changed the Vanu signature weapon trait from accuracy (Beamer/Pulsar/Lancer) to no bullet drop? Wtf? I'm not happy about it. Then again all this bitching could be for nothing, I'll have to wait till beta. It's just the lack of clarification and the way the devs skirt the question really bothers me. I don't feel like being the 'common pool empire' yet again.

Yeah, I understand. I know people hate when other people say "wait for Beta", but this is one of a few things that actually legitimately fits into that category. This isn't exactly a finished product, yet. Things like this, that are simple statistics adjustments that probably take 30 seconds to alter, are EXACTLY the kind of stuff that can be tweaked on the fly during Beta.

Give it a whirl, let 'em know what you think afterward. They'll alter it a bit, you can provide some more feedback :)

[MrMorton]

If I hear about bullet drop one more time I'm going to lose it. Lack of bullet drop is NOT an advantage! Anyone who plays this game for more than a week on the other factions will automatically compensate for bullet drop. Then they tack on damage degradation to boot? The only way VS weapons won't be total garbage is if they're INCREDIBLY accurate, and from what I've seen they don't seem to be any better than other factions weapons in that sense.

What good is no bullet drop if your weapons aren't accurate enough to consistently hit people at a distance where bullet drop would actually matter? What good is no bullet drop if your weapons do no damage at a distance where bullet drop would actually matter?

they are extremely accurate, almost no bullet spread. As long as you can control recoil vs will be the long range fighter par none.

[Bravix]

they are extremely accurate, almost no bullet spread. As long as you can control recoil vs will be the long range fighter par none.

...until you take into consideration the damage degradation. If you fire 10 shots and all manage to hit the guy, if he's far away, it might only be the same as 8 shots hitting him.

And controlling recoil? Look at the lasher. There is no controlling that recoil unless you want to drop your DPS considerably. Could be different in PS2, we'll see.

[Rivenshield]

@Rivenshield

However, in their defense... The new VS maxes don't exactly look aerodynamic...

Neither did the old ones. They looked like big purple space dildoes wearing bell-bottom jeans.

I'm just a reactionary old fart, I guess. Every time I hear music or see a feature from the old game, it makes me grin. I want jumping Vanu MAXes and a driver-only cert for the Prowler and a faster AMS. And a pony.

[Top Sgt]

you got cylon fighters that have already been shown to be super aircraft turn on a dime.

You have weapons that have no drop and shoot lasers and appear very strong

yes you don't have the advantages you had in PS1.. but that's a good thing. Let it be even and let us all fight for it.

man up

[Buggsy]

10 years of incessant whining about faction imbalance have pretty much homogenized factions now.

I like saying this, "I told you so." My favorite 4 words.

[Pyreal]

The Mag in PS1 had better mobility than other MBTs, but they also had a very accurate main gun and basically fired a laser.

Now the Mag still has mobility but has lost the speed of the laser, not to mention lack of a turret.

Turrets by definition revolve thus the Mag no longer has a turret, and no longer has lasers.

Pivoting the entire hull to get on target plus the increased projectile time both diminish the Mag's 'mobility', since they decrease the Mag's attacking speed.

I want attacking speed, not 'retreat speed'. :mad:



BOOOO!


Prepare yourselves for Rabblerabble as you have never seen it come Beta.


You have weapons that have no drop and shoot lasers and appear very strong



No drop is worthless for the CQBs that will be 99.98% of game play.
It will benefit snipers but the tradeoff is huge for that role.
"Yay I can I don't have to compensate to hit him with a spitwad!"

One day into game play and every non-retard sniper will have drop compensated for.

And I'm pretty sure I saw drop on the Mag's main gun, though not 100% sure.

"shooting lasers" is simply a part of the Vanu style. Style isn't a trade off, otherwise I could demand NC get gimped somewhere because their Medics get to wear plaid.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

@Pyreal

I don't know. There's some really professional rabblers around here. You'll have your work cut out for you.

I kind of see your points, though :) We'll see how it works

[Trip]

Id like to show you to this thread

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=45122&page=2

and specially to this post concerning weapons,



http://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b269/wachant/PS2Analysis.jpg

I'll retype soon(im at work), but accuracy falloff is the distance at which bullet drop would become so great that it's hard to compensate. With VS having none, it pushes the TRs up a little, but the NCs down a little.

And yes, photubucket likes to resize things down. It's annoying for anything with normal sized text.

For those who couldn't read:

This is an interpolation of Data based on the Dev PC Gamer Graphic, PS1 Gameplay, and (to a lesser extent) Physics.

Starting with Accuracy, It should be noted that accuracy seems to mean how well the bullet travels along a straight path prior to bullet declination (due to gravity) taking over. What this essentially means is that, assuming no recoil, your shots should always hit along a vertical line. Something to keep in mind, this is off from actual physics where recoil would be interpolated as such, and accuracy as an overall value via recoil and declination (among other environmental factors). So it appears the devs are using Accuracy as a value for bullet declination and recoil for all-around movement, essentially bloom.

With this in mind, the VS weapons have no gravitational effects on them. So they have 100% accuracy before bloom. The fact they have a recoil value though means they won't always have pinpoint accuracy. Gun a Mag-Rider in PS1? There's always that little amount of play where the shot will miss in spite of aiming dead on and holding still.
The NC have a "High" initial accuracy. Meaning the first few shots should be dead on in close to moderate range. But their high falloff requires compensation at range due to heavier bullets falling faster [due to drag].
The TR are supposed to have "Moderate" initial accuracy. But relative to the other Empires, they would be low. That being said their falloff is lower as lighter bullets [due to smaller surface area being dragged] won't drop as fast and are therefore more accurate at range.
Now, the VS are missing in the falloff category because they have no falloff. because of that gap, it can be interpreted that the NCs falloff isn't as bad as may initially seem while the TRs is slightly worse. However, this still means that at range, the TR will have a slightly easier time hitting an NC assuming both are of equal skill.

Next Recoil. Due to VS lack of bullet declination, their energy powered weapons seem to recoil much more. So as mentioned already about the Mag-Rider, as accurate as it is, there's always that chance the bloom will cause a miss.
The NC have a low burst recoil, meaning depending on the weapons, a 3 or 4 round burst should cause little bloom. But their sustained fire will turn their weapons into paint sprayers. This is just as it was in PS1 with the Gauss Rifle.
The TR have a higher Burst recoil and lower sustained recoil. This can be taken to mean that while they bloom quickly, the bloom will not get horribly worse by just holding the trigger, OR not as worse as fast. I believe the latter to be the more plausible case due to the entirety of the factors being taken into account in this analysis.

Next Rate of Fire. Pretty straight forward. My only beggin question about RoF is that it is theoretical assuming an endless supply of ammo. If a given weapon in a particular class reloads significantly faster than others, that could throw off quite a bit of balance.

Falloff:
As seen with the NC, If you can put you lead on target, damage won't drop very fast at range. (arbitrary numbers) if you do 100% damage at 50m, you'll be doing 90% at 75m.
TR, their lighter bullets explain RoF to compensate for their lack of stopping power. If you do 100% at 50m you'll do 80-85% at 75m.
VS, due to their accuracy bonuses have the worst damage falloff. If you do 100% at 50m, you'll do 75-80% at 75m.

Something that hasn't been mentioned anywhere was if the various empires will have effective cutoff ranges to their weapons. This was seen in PS1 with a few weapons where it was possible to sit outside of some ranges while looking at the poor guy trying to shoot you and you're not taking any damage because the rounds disappear.
Reload times and an Empire whose weapons have the longest effective range before cutoff (if cutoffs exist) would throw off the balance of this analysis and potentially create an overpowered empire.

NOTE* This obviously only applies to "Gun/Cannon" weapons and not launchers, shotguns, flame throwers, rockets etc.

according to this analysis vanu have comparatively high accuracy, high recoil and sustained recoil and high damage fall off. They have medium damage, medium rate of fire and no accuracy falloff

[Rasui]

Id like to show you to this thread

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=45122&page=2

and specially to this post concerning weapons,



according to this analysis vanu have comparatively high accuracy, high recoil and sustained recoil and high damage fall off. They have medium damage, medium rate of fire and no accuracy falloff

So, assuming I understood that correctly, the VS have high accuracy but also high recoil and lower damage? That sounds extremely counter-intuitive.

[Blackwolf]

We just make this shii look good. :cool:

[Yutty]

wait main vanu is suppose to have advantage of no bullet drops & less travel time? I was watching higby's latest stream as a NC sniper and i could swear his shots didn't suffer from bullet drop. He landed a few head shots which looked pretty much like it was Hitscan.

[Kyros]

VS weapons have always been rather sub par in comparison to the other factions.[Lasher used to be good but got nerfed into the ground.] A five year old can compensate for bulletdrop, lack of bulletdrop isn't an advantage unless you're completely new to shooters. Also not only do our weapons degrade but they also give away our position by being BRIGHT AND SHINY, HEY LOOK AT ME, I'M SHOOTING FROM OVER HERE. There was also the fact that in PS1 we could switch between armor piercing and normal shots without 'reloading' but i don't know if that's going to be in PS2.

However VS have one thing the other factions don't. Cool Factor. :cool:
And that is why I will always play them.

[Timealude]

wait main vanu is suppose to have advantage of no bullet drops & less travel time? I was watching higby's latest stream as a NC sniper and i could swear his shots didn't suffer from bullet drop. He landed a few head shots which looked pretty much like it was Hitscan.

no he was aiming slightly above the targets head.

[Envenom]

I don't see any advantages to Vanu... I suggest you switch to TR :)

[EisenKreutzer]

pew pew motherfuckers!

[Novice bot]

Well, a lot of information states that Vanu weapons produce virtually no recoil, which is the actual "accuracy advantage" of Vanu.

[EisenKreutzer]

Well, a lot of information states that Vanu weapons produce virtually no recoil, which is the actual "accuracy advantage" of Vanu.

Can we get clarification on this once and for all?

Do Vanu weapons have high recoil or low recoil?

[Novice bot]

Can we get clarification on this once and for all?

Do Vanu weapons have high recoil or low recoil?

http://wiki.planetside-universe.com/ps/Vanu_Sovereignty

Now to scavenge the video where one of the devs said something in related to "VS weapons having smallest recoil"

[vVRedOctoberVv]

In theory they shouldn't have ANY recoil. They're lasers. No moving parts, dammit!

[EisenKreutzer]

In theory they shouldn't have ANY recoil. They're lasers. No moving parts, dammit!

Theyre not lasers though. By the look of them, they fire bolts of superheated plasma or something similiar. Theres definitely a projectile there, as it has travel time and isn't a beam.

[Revanmug]

wait main vanu is suppose to have advantage of no bullet drops & less travel time? I was watching higby's latest stream as a NC sniper and i could swear his shots didn't suffer from bullet drop. He landed a few head shots which looked pretty much like it was Hitscan.

1. Most shot and kill seems to be between 150-300 meters. Are you expecting huge bullet drop in such a short short distance?

2. His crosshair was actually over people's head. Rewatch it.

[Arovien]

Vanu's biggest disadvantage...

me, I am not a Vanu soldier.

[Xoology]

So, assuming I understood that correctly, the VS have high accuracy but also high recoil and lower damage? That sounds extremely counter-intuitive.

Believe me, it is...frustrating to say the least :mad: