Vanu weapon recoil

[EisenKreutzer]

Theres been some confusion, atleast on my part, regarding the VS and their recoil.

The chart thingy that was supposed to explain the factions in PS1 (it's been floating around on the web, a really handy thing) seemed to indicate that the VS weaponry would have medium rate of fire, high accuracy and high recoil.

EDIT: Found it!
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab135/AirFell/Planetside2FactionDifferences.jpg

But have heard from several sources that "high" in that chart actually ment "good," and thus the Vanu have medium rof, good accuracy and good recoil. Good recoil obviously means low recoil.
I guess you can see the confusion.

Maybe someone who may or may not be in the technical test could shed some light on this for me?

So, once and for all: High recoil or low recoil?

[WiteBeam]

As long as the accuracy is high, what does recoil matter? You wont be feeling it.

Edit: I gues that would mean a large CoF.
But come on. No bullet drop and no recoil? What else do you want, hovering tanks too? And aircraft that can turn on a dime?

[Top Sgt]

You VS have High accuracy
You have little recoil
and you have medium damage
You have medium recoil

basically it will be easy for you

[Revanmug]

As long as the accuracy is high, what does recoil matter? You wont be feeling it.

accuracy and recoil mean 2 very differents things

[WiteBeam]

You VS have High accuracy
You have little recoil
and you have medium damage
You have medium recoil

basically it will be easy for you

But his confusion has to do with the chart that says otherwise.

[Reizod]

As long as the accuracy is high, what does recoil matter? You wont be feeling it.

^^^This

The high/good accuracy means low/non existent recoil. To give something the label of high accuracy, the amount of recoil is considered. They go hand and hand.

So hopefully this answers your questions OP.

[Top Sgt]

But his confusion has to do with the chart that says otherwise.

Negative that's exactly how the chart reads

take us TR for example

We have medium accuracy to begin with that drops off but less of a drop off than the NC ( they have stronger BL Damage per shot)

We have very managble recoil with our initial 2 to 3 shots but then if you hold down trigger recoil is highest in game

highest ROF in game but lowest damage per bullet.

And that's exactly how it's playing out in "real time"

High on the chart means "good or managable in game Low on chart means "high in game or crazy recoil etc

But I do think there is a typo on the vanu part with the high accuracy part.

I'm no expert tho. i could be wrong

[Ranik Ortega]

I am guessing High recoil means it is very easily controlled. As TR are high initial and low sustained. AKA cycler being accurate in burst and god awful in full auto.

[EisenKreutzer]

As long as the accuracy is high, what does recoil matter? You wont be feeling it.

Edit: I gues that would mean a large CoF.
But come on. No bullet drop and no recoil? What else do you want, hovering tanks too? And aircraft that can turn on a dime?

When did I say I wanted anything?

^^^This

The high/good accuracy means low/non existent recoil. To give something the label of high accuracy, the amount of recoil is considered. They go hand and hand.

So hopefully this answers your questions OP.

Actually, no. I am still as confused as before.

High accuracy means that the first shots you fire will have a high chance of travelling down a straight line from your crosshairs to your target. Bullet spread is another word for this.

Recoil, by contrast, is the distance your weapon is displaced (vertically or horizontally) with each shot.
They are completely different things.

[EisenKreutzer]

Negative that's exactly how the chart reads

What?

Let me clarify:

Does "High" recoil on the chart mean:

Lots of recoil;

or

Very little recoil?

[Reizod]

When did I say I wanted anything?



Actually, no. I am still as confused as before.

High accuracy means that the first shots you fire will have a high chance of travelling down a straight line from your crosshairs to your target. Bullet spread is another word for this.

Recoil, by contrast, is the distance your weapon is displaced (vertically or horizontally) with each shot.
They are completely different things.

I'm trying to tell you that the lingo used in the chart is confusing... but in terms of actual gameplay in PS2... the "high accuracy" label means low recoil, bullet spread, etc. Most guns first shot will be accurate.

To give an example of what I mean, if you played COD MW2... the ACR had very low recoil, which gave the gun laser like accuracy.

You have to remove real world idea/perception of what recoil and accuracy means. I'm trying to help you in such a way without having to say directly...

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I'm confused.

[Top Sgt]

i really do believe the vanu accuracy part was a mistake on that chart.

Everything else lines up with "in game" except for the high in the VS accuracy part.

Edit.. nevermind after going over the chart again... I think many parts of it are incorrect.

i think SOE needs to give a better chart because this one is broken.

[Ranik Ortega]

What?

Let me clarify:

Does "High" recoil on the chart mean:

Lots of recoil;

or

Very little recoil?

I'll spell it out for you.

HIGH RECOIL on that chart probably means = very low recoil.

We are using the TR Cycler as a comparison to understand the chart.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I'll spell it out for you.

HIGH RECOIL on that chart probably means = very low recoil.

We are using the TR Cycler as a comparison to understand the chart.

Because that makes PERFECT sense. Whoever made that chart needs their ass kicked...

[EisenKreutzer]

You have to remove real world idea/perception of what recoil and accuracy means with real ballistics. I'm trying to help you in such a way without having to say directly...

I am talking about games.

Bullet spread and recoil are two different things.

Also, why avoid saying things directly? That seems like trying to be intentionally unhelpful.

[WiteBeam]

What?

Let me clarify:

Does "High" recoil on the chart mean:

Lots of recoil;

or

Very little recoil?

Apparently the chart is retarded when it says HIGH recoil but means low recoil. VS have low recoil.

[Revanmug]

What?

Let me clarify:

Does "High" recoil on the chart mean:

Lots of recoil;

or

Very little recoil?

One way or the other, that chart is badly done.

"high" recoil mean that the recoil is... high or strong. Saying high recoil but meaning little is a... contradiction. Can't really tell if there is a mistake or not.

And NC got the medium recoil which doesn't make sense. NC is "suppose" to have the highest recoil for having the highest damage per shot type of weapon. At least, that is what they said.

[Irish]

Theres been some confusion, atleast on my part, regarding the VS and their recoil.

The chart thingy that was supposed to explain the factions in PS1 (it's been floating around on the web, a really handy thing) seemed to indicate that the VS weaponry would have medium rate of fire, high accuracy and high recoil.

EDIT: Found it!
http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab135/AirFell/Planetside2FactionDifferences.jpg

But have heard from several sources that "high" in that chart actually ment "good," and thus the Vanu have medium rof, good accuracy and good recoil. Good recoil obviously means low recoil.
I guess you can see the confusion.

Maybe someone who may or may not be in the technical test could shed some light on this for me?

So, once and for all: High recoil or low recoil?


From the point....of...pure....speculation.......The recoil is medium, based on my play.........from various events i have played the game from...................... i can control the recoil on the engineer weapon for example, by using my mouse scrolling down to obtain a 1 ft spread throughout the whole clip. the engi weap is legit. one of my favorites, plays kinda like an mp5 would. the light assault is considerably higher recoil, but controllable. i played competetive cs and if you're familiar, all the recoil is basically higher then the bullpup was unscoped.....

ps2 is still very much tactical gunplay, in that i mean its less important landing bullet for bullet, as it is setting up successful positioning for effective fire. ie. being above them, or behind them, or off angle as opposed to perpendicular. all though there are headshots with the chaos around you and muzzle flash aiming for them is not always the most overall tactically important method.

these are loose numbers, but at lets say 30 feet if you aim at their waste the last bullets would be hitting their head, in a clip of 30

[Reizod]

Because that makes PERFECT sense. Whoever made that chart needs their ass kicked...

Yes indeed, I concur!!!

[Ranik Ortega]

Because that makes PERFECT sense. Whoever made that chart needs their ass kicked...

Never said it made sense. It just that the Cycler was known for being accurate at burst fire and highly innacurate at sustained. So just extrapolating

[EisenKreutzer]

I'll spell it out for you.

HIGH RECOIL on that chart probably means = very low recoil.

We are using the TR Cycler as a comparison to understand the chart.

THANK YOU!

[Top Sgt]

yeah the chart is kinda retarted

High in the Accuracy circle means- Actual in game very accurate/high accuracy

high in the recoil circle means actual in game lower recoil etc

Chart was made by NC

[Pozidriv]

To use another game as an example (BF3 in this case) i think the the weapon handling for VS (pulsar) seems to be like the G3 in BF3, except without it's high damage and most likely with some more ROF.

The NC seems to be like the vanilla SCAR in BF3 but with added recoil (i think).

TR seems like the F2000, deviation even on the first round but the max deviation is low with high ROF and low damage.

[WiteBeam]

Bullet spread and recoil are two different things.


Recoil creates CoF(bullet spread). They are very much related.
Some bullet spread is caused by inaccurate weapons, like when we talk about Minutes of arc.

[Reizod]

I am talking about games.

Bullet spread and recoil are two different things.

Also, why avoid saying things directly? That seems like trying to be intentionally unhelpful.

Because of November Delta Alpha my friend.

[Dart]

In PS2 I believe the differences can be summed up as follows:

TR - High rate of fire

NC - High damage

VS - No bullet drop (laz0rs)

Obviously there are other slight differences depending on the weapon but that is the basic ethos I believe.

[Flaropri]

Chart was made by NC

Clearly, VS are too smart to screw that sort of thing up, and TR too professional to confuse terms.

Because of November Delta Alpha my friend.

Hey! We aren't supposed to talk about that in public!

[Rasui]

What concerns me most about this is that typically in an FPS the weapons with really high recoil also have realy high individual shot damage. It balances out so that if you burst fire with some space to allow your crosshairs to re-center you can still put out pretty good DPS at a distance. If the VS weapons have high recoil and medium damage their accuracy will mean nothing. It breaks the whole formula.

Edit: Thread moves fast.

To use another game as an example (BF3 in this case) i think the the weapon handling for VS (pulsar) seems to be like the G3 in BF3, except without it's high damage and most likely with some more ROF.

The NC seems to be like the vanilla SCAR in BF3 but with added recoil (i think).

TR seems like the F2000, deviation even on the first round but the max deviation is low with high ROF and low damage. If this is correct it scares the crap out of me. The whole reason the G3 works is it hits like a truck. If it didn't have the damage there's literally no reason to use it. Accuracy doesn't mean anything if you're not putting out decent DPS.

[EisenKreutzer]

Recoil creates CoF(bullet spread). They are very much related.
Some bullet spread is caused by inaccurate weapons, like when we talk about Minutes of arc.

They are two different concepts.

If you fire at a wall a metre in front of you, you can see both effects at play.

The bullets will initially hit exactly at your crosshair, then gradually start drifting outward from the centre. This is bullet spread.

Your crosshair will also start to drift, either upwards or horizontally. This is recoil.

The two effects happen simultaneously, so they might seem like one phenomenon, but I can assure you that from a game balancing perspective, they are two very distinct effects.

[Top Sgt]

What concerns me most about this is that typically in an FPS the weapons with really high recoil also have realy high individual shot damage. It balances out so that if you burst fire with some space to allow your crosshairs to re-center you can still put out pretty good DPS at a distance. If the VS weapons have high recoil and medium damage their accuracy will mean nothing. It breaks the whole formula.

Listen to us The VS have almost no recoil in game... guns shoot like laser beams

Think of the ACR in MW2 straight up

[EisenKreutzer]

Because of November Delta Alpha my friend.

There are better ways of doing this than being vague.

[Reizod]

Clearly, VS are too smart to screw that sort of thing up, and TR too professional to confuse terms.



Hey! We aren't supposed to talk about that in public!

Talk about what? Please show me where I talked about something I'm NOT suppose to??? :groovy:

Oh, and don't be so jumpy... take a breath. There have been no LAWS broken bud.

[Top Sgt]

To use another game as an example (BF3 in this case) i think the the weapon handling for VS (pulsar) seems to be like the G3 in BF3, except without it's high damage and most likely with some more ROF.

The NC seems to be like the vanilla SCAR in BF3 but with added recoil (i think).

TR seems like the F2000, deviation even on the first round but the max deviation is low with high ROF and low damage.

Very good analogy right there.. pretty dead on. Weapon setups are pretty much like that stock (in game)

[WiteBeam]

What concerns me most about this is that typically in an FPS the weapons with really high recoil also have realy high individual shot damage. It balances out so that if you burst fire with some space to allow your crosshairs to re-center you can still put out pretty good DPS at a distance. If the VS weapons have high recoil and medium damage their accuracy will mean nothing. It breaks the whole formula.

You would be correct when talking about most other games. But PS adds so many other elements to the equation that help balance everything.
JH has low range.
VS are purple.
MCG has large clip.

So many rock, paper, scissors scenarios.

[Ranik Ortega]

They are two different concepts.

If you fire at a wall a metre in front of you, you can see both effects at play.

The bullets will initially hit exactly at your crosshair, then gradually start drifting outward from the centre. This is bullet spread.

Your crosshair will also start to drift, either upwards or horizontally. This is recoil.

The two effects happen simultaneously, so they might seem like one phenomenon, but I can assure you that from a game balancing perspective, they are two very distinct effects.

You are asking for an explanation and then arguing when people try to extrapolate game mechanics from the first game to the current chart.

PS1 did not have much in the way of Recoil. And PS1 did not have bullet drop.

PS2 now has bullet drop = Accuracy

PS2 got rid of Cone of Fire which now = Recoil

[Reizod]

There are better ways of doing this than being vague.

Just so you know I was actually truly trying to help you out. I'm not sure how in the heck you can say my posts was "vague", really!? :confused:

[EisenKreutzer]

You are asking for an explanation and then arguing when people try to extrapolate game mechanics from the first game to the current chart.

PS1 did not have much in the way of Recoil. And PS1 did not have bullet drop.

PS2 now has bullet drop = Accuracy

PS2 got rid of Cone of Fire which now = Recoil

I am not arguing about the chart.

I am using the chart as a way of illustrating what I was confused about.

Then people started to claim that recoil and accuracy were the same thing, and I started arguing about that.

[Rasui]

Listen to us The VS have almost no recoil in game... guns shoot like laser beams

Think of the ACR in MW2 straight up

I've never played any of the MW games, but from the way you phrase it it sounds like a good thing?

[EisenKreutzer]

Just so you know I was actually truly trying to help you out. I'm not sure how in the heck you can say my posts was "vague", really!? :confused:

I'm sorry, but all you did was confuse me more. :P

[WiteBeam]

You are asking for an explanation and then arguing when people try to extrapolate game mechanics from the first game to the current chart.

PS1 did not have much in the way of Recoil. And PS1 did not have bullet drop.

PS2 now has bullet drop = Accuracy

PS2 got rid of Cone of Fire which now = Recoil

There is still a cone of fire. We just won't see a reticle spread to show where your bullets may go. Your gun will actually just flail around now causing the same exact affect.

[Holi]

OK, granted, it has been 1-2+ years since I last played PS1 but I'm 99% sure there was no recoil in PS1. There was only COF bloom.

[Hosp]

*Sigh* Another OP who decides not to use the search function.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=45122&page=2

[Revanmug]

Recoil creates CoF(bullet spread). They are very much related.
Some bullet spread is caused by inaccurate weapons, like when we talk about Minutes of arc.

relate but still different. One is constant and cannot be compensate for. The second is after a shot and can be compensate for.

[EisenKreutzer]

*Sigh* Another OP who decides not to use the search function.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=45122&page=2

*Sigh* Another rude forumite who thinks he's the ultimate authority on what threads should and should not be posted.

I did use the search function.
I saw a thread on the front page where someone was claiming that the Vanu had high recoil (lots of recoil), and that confused me. I searched for "Vanu weapon recoil," and didn't find any relevant threads. Thus I made this thread.

[WiteBeam]

*Sigh* Another OP who decides not to use the search function.

http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=45122&page=2

Wasnt really the OPs original question.

[Hosp]

Wasnt really the OPs original question.

True. But it does explain EVERYTHING quite nicely.

[Flaropri]

Talk about what? Please show me where I talked about something I'm NOT suppose to??? :groovy:

Oh, and don't be so jumpy... take a breath. There have been no LAWS broken bud.

I was making a joke. :rolleyes:

[Rasui]

This is an interpolation of Data based on the Dev PC Gamer Graphic, PS1 Gameplay, and (to a lesser extent) Physics.

Starting with Accuracy, It should be noted that accuracy seems to mean how well the bullet travels along a straight path prior to bullet declination (due to gravity) taking over. What this essentially means is that, assuming no recoil, your shots should always hit along a vertical line. Something to keep in mind, this is off from actual physics where recoil would be interpolated as such, and accuracy as an overall value via recoil and declination (among other environmental factors). So it appears the devs are using Accuracy as a value for bullet declination and recoil for all-around movement, essentially bloom.

With this in mind, the VS weapons have no gravitational effects on them. So they have 100% accuracy before bloom. The fact they have a recoil value though means they won't always have pinpoint accuracy. Gun a Mag-Rider in PS1? There's always that little amount of play where the shot will miss in spite of aiming dead on and holding still.
The NC have a "High" initial accuracy. Meaning the first few shots should be dead on in close to moderate range. But their high falloff requires compensation at range due to heavier bullets falling faster [due to drag].
The TR are supposed to have "Moderate" initial accuracy. But relative to the other Empires, they would be low. That being said their falloff is lower as lighter bullets [due to smaller surface area being dragged] won't drop as fast and are therefore more accurate at range.
Now, the VS are missing in the falloff category because they have no falloff. because of that gap, it can be interpreted that the NCs falloff isn't as bad as may initially seem while the TRs is slightly worse. However, this still means that at range, the TR will have a slightly easier time hitting an NC assuming both are of equal skill.

Next Recoil. Due to VS lack of bullet declination, their energy powered weapons seem to recoil much more. So as mentioned already about the Mag-Rider, as accurate as it is, there's always that chance the bloom will cause a miss.
The NC have a low burst recoil, meaning depending on the weapons, a 3 or 4 round burst should cause little bloom. But their sustained fire will turn their weapons into paint sprayers. This is just as it was in PS1 with the Gauss Rifle.
The TR have a higher Burst recoil and lower sustained recoil. This can be taken to mean that while they bloom quickly, the bloom will not get horribly worse by just holding the trigger, OR not as worse as fast. I believe the latter to be the more plausible case due to the entirety of the factors being taken into account in this analysis.

Next Rate of Fire. Pretty straight forward. My only beggin question about RoF is that it is theoretical assuming an endless supply of ammo. If a given weapon in a particular class reloads significantly faster than others, that could throw off quite a bit of balance.

Falloff:
As seen with the NC, If you can put you lead on target, damage won't drop very fast at range. (arbitrary numbers) if you do 100% damage at 50m, you'll be doing 90% at 75m.
TR, their lighter bullets explain RoF to compensate for their lack of stopping power. If you do 100% at 50m you'll do 80-85% at 75m.
VS, due to their accuracy bonuses have the worst damage falloff. If you do 100% at 50m, you'll do 75-80% at 75m.


So basically the NC have the weapons the VS are supposed to have, with the added perk of also hitting harder? I haven't used them in-game, but on paper this sounds awful.

[EisenKreutzer]

I'll retype soon(im at work), but accuracy falloff is the distance at which bullet drop would become so great that it's hard to compensate. With VS having none, it pushes the TRs up a little, but the NCs down a little.

And yes, photubucket likes to resize things down. It's annoying for anything with normal sized text.

For those who couldn't read:

This is an interpolation of Data based on the Dev PC Gamer Graphic, PS1 Gameplay, and (to a lesser extent) Physics.

Starting with Accuracy, It should be noted that accuracy seems to mean how well the bullet travels along a straight path prior to bullet declination (due to gravity) taking over. What this essentially means is that, assuming no recoil, your shots should always hit along a vertical line. Something to keep in mind, this is off from actual physics where recoil would be interpolated as such, and accuracy as an overall value via recoil and declination (among other environmental factors). So it appears the devs are using Accuracy as a value for bullet declination and recoil for all-around movement, essentially bloom.

With this in mind, the VS weapons have no gravitational effects on them. So they have 100% accuracy before bloom. The fact they have a recoil value though means they won't always have pinpoint accuracy. Gun a Mag-Rider in PS1? There's always that little amount of play where the shot will miss in spite of aiming dead on and holding still.
The NC have a "High" initial accuracy. Meaning the first few shots should be dead on in close to moderate range. But their high falloff requires compensation at range due to heavier bullets falling faster [due to drag].
The TR are supposed to have "Moderate" initial accuracy. But relative to the other Empires, they would be low. That being said their falloff is lower as lighter bullets [due to smaller surface area being dragged] won't drop as fast and are therefore more accurate at range.
Now, the VS are missing in the falloff category because they have no falloff. because of that gap, it can be interpreted that the NCs falloff isn't as bad as may initially seem while the TRs is slightly worse. However, this still means that at range, the TR will have a slightly easier time hitting an NC assuming both are of equal skill.

Next Recoil. Due to VS lack of bullet declination, their energy powered weapons seem to recoil much more. So as mentioned already about the Mag-Rider, as accurate as it is, there's always that chance the bloom will cause a miss.
The NC have a low burst recoil, meaning depending on the weapons, a 3 or 4 round burst should cause little bloom. But their sustained fire will turn their weapons into paint sprayers. This is just as it was in PS1 with the Gauss Rifle.
The TR have a higher Burst recoil and lower sustained recoil. This can be taken to mean that while they bloom quickly, the bloom will not get horribly worse by just holding the trigger, OR not as worse as fast. I believe the latter to be the more plausible case due to the entirety of the factors being taken into account in this analysis.

Next Rate of Fire. Pretty straight forward. My only beggin question about RoF is that it is theoretical assuming an endless supply of ammo. If a given weapon in a particular class reloads significantly faster than others, that could throw off quite a bit of balance.

Falloff:
As seen with the NC, If you can put you lead on target, damage won't drop very fast at range. (arbitrary numbers) if you do 100% damage at 50m, you'll be doing 90% at 75m.
TR, their lighter bullets explain RoF to compensate for their lack of stopping power. If you do 100% at 50m you'll do 80-85% at 75m.
VS, due to their accuracy bonuses have the worst damage falloff. If you do 100% at 50m, you'll do 75-80% at 75m.

Something that hasn't been mentioned anywhere was if the various empires will have effective cutoff ranges to their weapons. This was seen in PS1 with a few weapons where it was possible to sit outside of some ranges while looking at the poor guy trying to shoot you and you're not taking any damage because the rounds disappear.
Reload times and an Empire whose weapons have the longest effective range before cutoff (if cutoffs exist) would throw off the balance of this analysis and potentially create an overpowered empire.

NOTE* This obviously only applies to "Gun/Cannon" weapons and not launchers, shotguns, flame throwers, rockets etc.
I honestly can't tell if this answers my question or not.

Also, how was I supposed to find this with the search function?

[Reizod]

I was making a joke. :rolleyes:

Ah, I see. Suggestion for future reference, make use of the Smilies when you are joking not just when being sarcastic. This may help avoid confusion, that's why they were invented. :)

[OutlawDr]

Wow lots of confusion. I wonder what the devs mean by "Recoil". Is it reticule bounce or reticule bloom (cof)? Maybe both. Btw in most FPS games now, ADS is mostly governed by reticule bounce, while at the hip is mostly reticule bloom (though each may have a bit of both).

Then there is "accuracy"? Ohh boy. So accuracy is bullet drop???

So Vanu have low bullet drop...but high initial recoil and sustained recoil. I'm pretty sure high recoil means "bad" recoil. Its just too bad that high in the other categories is "good"...which is confusing.

[EisenKreutzer]

Wow lots of confusion. I wonder what the devs mean by "Recoil". Is it reticule bounce or reticule bloom (cof)? Maybe both. Btw in most FPS games now, ADS is mostly governed by reticule bounce, while at the hip is mostly reticule bloom (though each may have a bit of both).

Then there is "accuracy"? Ohh boy. So accuracy is bullet drop???

So Vanu have low bullet drop...but high initial recoil and sustained recoil. I'm pretty sure high recoil means "bad" recoil. Its just too bad that high in the other categories is "good"...which is confusing.

...

o.O

This thread is getting more and more confusing.

According to my current understanding, Vanu weapons are supposed to have good accuracy and no bullet drop. I don't know what this means in terms of bullet spread and recoil.
That distinction is important to me, because while I can compensate for recoil, compensating for bullet spread is impossible.

[avpmaster]

^^^This

The high/good accuracy means low/non existent recoil. To give something the label of high accuracy, the amount of recoil is considered. They go hand and hand.

So hopefully this answers your questions OP.


...What? No it doesn't. It's actually almost the opposite.

Accuracy is basically where the bullets will drop, depending on where the crosshair is. Recoil is how jumpy the crosshair is. The two are unrelated.

Also, just to prove my point:

Sniper rifles. Accurate, but high recoil.

[Mythoclast]

Wow lots of confusion. I wonder what the devs mean by "Recoil". Is it reticule bounce or reticule bloom (cof)? Maybe both. Btw in most FPS games now, ADS is mostly governed by reticule bounce, while at the hip is mostly reticule bloom (though each may have a bit of both).

Then there is "accuracy"? Ohh boy. So accuracy is bullet drop???

So Vanu have low bullet drop...but high initial recoil and sustained recoil. I'm pretty sure high recoil means "bad" recoil. Its just too bad that high in the other categories is "good"...which is confusing.

High accuracy being good and high recoil being bad is confusing? High pain=bad high pleasure=good.

[Flaropri]

Accuracy: Accuracy relates to bullet spread. Some weapons may or may not lose accuracy when fired and/or when moving. Directly related to "Cone of Fire."

Recoil: Recoil moves the reticule when the weapon is fired. There are both short term recoil (burst) and long-term recoil (sustained) considerations in this game, where some factions can handle recoil at length in different ways.

Bullet Drop: How quickly a bullet will lose height over distance. It effects accuracy, but is still separate.

Damage: Damage per shot. This is more obvious, but I just want to avoid the confusion that might arise for some people that might think it refers to damage per second.

Rate of Fire: Does exactly what it says on the tin.


All of these are separate and distinct stats for a weapon. However, Recoil and Loss of Accuracy are often tied together, but that doesn't need to be the case.

[EisenKreutzer]

+1 for Flaropri.

[OutlawDr]

I was using older, less use terms in order to make some sense of this, since it doesn't look like the PS2 devs were using terms as they are used in other games for this poster.

Bullet spread = cone of fire = reticule bloom
Recoil = reticule bounce

I'll use help from blacklight, since they are the least vague FPS game when it comes to weapon stats.

Bullet spread = angle at which the bullet leaves the center of the reticule. There is usually a minimum and maximum value depending on certain actions: crouching, prone, moving, jumping, sustained fire

Recoil = distance the reticule is displaced vertically after being fired. sustained firing often increases recoil over time. there can be some horizontal displacement as well, but not as pronounced as the vertical.

So does "accuracy" on this poster mean bullet spread or bullet drop? I think they mean bullet drop just by how they describe it.
Does "recoil" have the same definition it does in other games? Who knows...

[WiteBeam]

Accuracy: Accuracy relates to bullet spread. Some weapons may or may not lose accuracy when fired and/or when moving. Directly related to "Cone of Fire."

Recoil: Recoil moves the reticule when the weapon is fired. There are both short term recoil (burst) and long-term recoil (sustained) considerations in this game, where some factions can handle recoil at length in different ways.

Bullet Drop: How quickly a bullet will lose height over distance. It effects accuracy, but is still separate.

Damage: Damage per shot. This is more obvious, but I just want to avoid the confusion that might arise for some people that might think it refers to damage per second.

Rate of Fire: Does exactly what it says on the tin.


All of these are separate and distinct stats for a weapon. However, Recoil and Loss of Accuracy are often tied together, but that doesn't need to be the case.

You forgot SOEs definitions.
Very High=Very Low
Very Low=Very High

[FPClark]

Dont worry. The gunplay has been getting good reviews from the people playing the game.

[EisenKreutzer]

Dont worry. The gunplay has been getting good reviews from the people playing the game.

Oh, I don't doubt that for a second!

I just want to know how Vanu weapons handle. ^^

[Memeotis]

High recoil.

Given their attempt to actually explain it, I don't think would use the word 'High' if it didn't mean exactly that.

[EisenKreutzer]

Seems like nobody on these forums know if Vanu have high or low recoil. ^^ (except for the guys who may or may not be in the tech test)

[vVRedOctoberVv]

This thread has been found by the surgeon general to cause cancer, lung disease, and cataracts. You are hereby advised not to read it while pregnant, nursing, or if you suffer from epilepsy.

[Dart]

Seems like nobody on these forums know if Vanu have high or low recoil. ^^ (except for the guys who may or may not be in the tech test)

I already told you what the difference between the Empire specific weapons (in PS2) was 3 pages ago. That no one listened to me isn't my fault.

[EisenKreutzer]

I already told you what the difference between the Empire specific weapons (in PS2) was 3 pages ago. That no one listened to me isn't my fault.

Well, you made a post three pages back, but it wasn't very helpful.

I don't need the differences between the empire weapons.
I want to know about recoil.

But I know what I need now, I got an inside tip from someone who definitely could likely possibly be in the tech test.

EDIT: Though you raise an interesting point for a follow up question:

You said Empire specific weapons. Does that mean that when I, as a Vanu, pull up a common pool weapon, it will shoot bullets instead of lazers?
Or if I was TR, would a common pool weapon fire rapidly but with low damage per bullet?

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I doubt the common pool weapons change based off which faction is using them. They'll just be common, and you can tweak em from there.

[EisenKreutzer]

I've been assuming that they changed from faction to faction.

[haticK]

Vanu weapons are the most accurate which means that there would be little to no recoil. The point of having an accurate weapon is so you can spray and hardly have any jump in the weapon.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

No, I don't think so. Though I'm not in it and don't know for a fact. I believe they are just simply common weapons between all three factions. They can be modified after you equip them, just like the other weapons. But they're like the old PS1 common pool, as far as I have seen. And then each faction has their own "faction specific weapons". I think Hamma said last night each faction has 70+ weapons at present, for infantry? Lots of variety there.

[EisenKreutzer]

Vanu weapons are the most accurate which means that there would be little to no recoil. The point of having an accurate weapon is so you can spray and hardly have any jump in the weapon.

We've covered this. Accuracy != Recoil.

Accuracy is bullet spread (or CoF, or bloom).

You can compensate for recoil by moving your mouse in the opposite direction.
You cannot compensate for bullet spread.

No, I don't think so. Though I'm not in it and don't know for a fact. I believe they are just simply common weapons between all three factions. They can be modified after you equip them, just like the other weapons. But they're like the old PS1 common pool, as far as I have seen. And then each faction has their own "faction specific weapons". I think Hamma said last night each faction has 70+ weapons at present, for infantry? Lots of variety there.

Oh, ok. Nice to know.

[haticK]

We've covered this. Accuracy != no recoil.

Accuracy is bullet spread (or CoF, or bloom).

That makes sense I guess. Did you see this from the wiki?

Although these weapons do not have the raw impact of New Conglomerate weapon systems nor rate of fire of Terran Republic weaponry, they are highly accurate and produce virtually no recoil.

[EisenKreutzer]

I have now. ^^

[FPClark]

Common pool weapons are just that...they are the same no matter who is using them.

[Baneblade]

Recoil is how far the weapon moves when you fire a shot. High recoil implies a much more chaotic weapon than the VS probably have. Bullet Spread, a component of accuracy, is how far off center the projectile can drift due to weapon characteristics, not the same as bullet drop.

There is no reason for VS to have recoil on energy weapons in any case.

[EisenKreutzer]

I am now certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that everyone who has seen this thread knows the difference between recoil and accuracy.

[Baneblade]

That remains to be seen.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I am now certain, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that everyone who has seen this thread knows the difference between recoil and accuracy.

Just to be safe, can someone explain it one more time?

[EisenKreutzer]

Head a splode.

[FPClark]

Just to be safe, can someone explain it one more time?

Well you see...When a fusion cell and a High energy laser love eachother very much...

[vVRedOctoberVv]

Can haz pics?

[OutlawDr]

I think its safe to say we are confuzzl'd by what they mean by accuracy and recoil :drunk:

(at least in the poster...we are totally confident it means what we think it means in the rest of the game...totally..)

[Rodel]

To get back to the original post. You need to understand that the difference in guns and empires for PS can't be understood by looking at their stats. The Utility of the weapons from faction to faction are what defines them. Think the heavy weapons.

NC
Shot gun that fires spread shot with the option of shooting 1 barrel at a time or all 3 at once.

TR
Minigun with a 100 round clip... its 100 right?

VS
A lasher that fire a plasma ball with an AOE effect and high direct hit damage.

They are so different in nature that the chart you pulled doesn't come close to doing justice. In fact their are times when the weapon with the lowest stats on all fronts will still be arguably the superior. Take the Mag rider in PS1 it had the lowest dps and armor rating but was the best Medium-Longrange tank in the game especially during bridge battles. This was because since their was no shell drop the mag would score a higher hit percentage then its counter parts at long range. It would also float on water and slip under the bridges for cover during a bridge fight.

I can't predict how PS2 will be effected by such considerations until I play but I know enough not to prejudge from base stats.

[Talek Krell]

I would offer to extract the information from my anonymous sources, but it looks like the OP beat me to it.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

*facepalm*


Guys, guys. The only part he was interested in was "Do Vanu weapons kick?" A question he had answered WELL AWAY from this thread, which quickly became a vortex from which none of us have escaped...


wwaaaaAAAAAAAAaaaaaaAAAAAAAAaaaaaaAAAAAAaaaaa (me making "going in circles sound")

[Hamma]

Guys please don't ask people to violate the NDA in your threads.. ;)

[EisenKreutzer]

Guys please don't ask people to violate the NDA in your threads.. ;)

I'm very sorry if I appeared to do that. That wasn't my intention. I was hoping a dev would have mentioned something about this.

[WVoneseven]

Its pretty derpy when you compare it to TR and NC...

ACCURACY REFERS TO THE BARREL TO CROSS-HAIR LINE.

NC - First few bullets are highly accurate at first but become erratic with sustained fire due to the unreliability of the weapons.

TR - TR bullets are slightly less accurate than NC burst rounds but are lighter and have lower drop as well as having a higher sustainable accuracy.

VS - Rounds are perfectly accurate and always hit the cross-hair with no drop and no cone.

RECOIL REFERS TO THE MOVEMENT OF THE BARREL UNDER SUSTAINED FIRE

NC - First few rounds again display little recoil maybe feeling like the mechanism of HK G11 having no recoil for a burst fire.

TR- have a hire burst recoil but their guns are lighter and more manageable and so they can be brought under control with susstained fire (effectively the soldier jolts from inertia of burst but pushes in and suppresses recoil effectively)

VS - throwing hot plasma and pure energy out of your gun is a new and unfamiliar tech to humanity and hence the gun tends to be a little less controllable maybe similar to the plasma rifle of halo being both accurate but not effective at sustained fire.

RATE OF FIRE.

NC- lowest rate of fire as a result of heavier larger rounds and more unreliable guns.

TR- well maintained military light round rifles have higher and more reliable ROF

VS- Energy weapons are again new tech so they are slower than TR but they are in better condition and are more reliable than NC scrap guns.

DAMAGE PER ROUND ALSO OBVIOUS.

NC- large calibre rounds and large bore rifles provide stopping power to every bullet a NC soldier sends down range.

TR- TR guns rely on their reliability and ease of use and cost efficiency which has meant the adoption of lighter rounds causing less damage per round.

VS - The energy rounds of the vanu tech lack the mass and kinetic energy of the NC rounds but due to the heat and energy they transfer they still pack a hefty punch.

CONCLUSION.

NC- New conglomerate weapons will require burst fire shooting as they will become erratic and unpredictable under any sort of sustained fire. They do high damage per shot but the rounds need to be placed properly promoting ambushing and movement.

TR- Terran republic weapons lack the immediate accuracy and punch of the NC but remain accurate over longer periods of time. Because of this the Terran will be best suited to the use of direct frontal assault and suppressive fire-power as they will be able to maintain consistent fire.

VS- Vanu weapon style are a little less black and white than NC or TR. Their round for round accuracy is high which suggests to me that VS might be must successful at firing single rounds at medium range as a hunter fires at a catch. Concentrating on semi-automatic fire to keep the untamed energy weapons at bay. This would promote tactical awareness of the entire surrounding as well as self preservation. A VS player running and gunning into a room of NC will be mowed down quickly so he must hang back and assess. A VS being too uncarefull with his shot placcement will also be unable to negate the suppression of the TR. This all sounds negative but I belive it suits the VS mindset (Though I'm NC through and through)

TLDR: Vanu have HIGH recoil and I believe they will need to rely on thoughtful semi-automatic use of their guns to achieve the best results.

[Kalbuth]

Yes, that's what I understood, VS weapons are "precise" because they hit on the crosshair and don't have any bullet drop over distance, but they have high recoil.

Just watch the video, very often, VS "bullets" go all over the place in sustained fire.

[Baneblade]

I don't agree with the presumption that NC weapons are 'scrappy'. I mean corporate armies tend to have the newest shit.

[WVoneseven]

I don't agree with the presumption that NC weapons are 'scrappy'. I mean corporate armies tend to have the newest shit.

I guess I just pictured say the Talibans stash of US bought Russian weapons which have been around since forever. Old kalashnikov covered in scratches and chips etc etc. Not so much scrappy but less thoroughly maintained than the weapons of the republic forces. More rugged and showing their use. (remembers those guns are the workhorse of the military world and still survive because of their brute operational prowess)

[Rasui]

Its pretty derpy when you compare it to TR and NC...

ACCURACY REFERS TO THE BARREL TO CROSS-HAIR LINE.

NC - First few bullets are highly accurate at first but become erratic with sustained fire due to the unreliability of the weapons.

TR - TR bullets are slightly less accurate than NC burst rounds but are lighter and have lower drop as well as having a higher sustainable accuracy.

VS - Rounds are perfectly accurate and always hit the cross-hair with no drop and no cone.

RECOIL REFERS TO THE MOVEMENT OF THE BARREL UNDER SUSTAINED FIRE

NC - First few rounds again display little recoil maybe feeling like the mechanism of HK G11 having no recoil for a burst fire.

TR- have a hire burst recoil but their guns are lighter and more manageable and so they can be brought under control with susstained fire (effectively the soldier jolts from inertia of burst but pushes in and suppresses recoil effectively)

VS - throwing hot plasma and pure energy out of your gun is a new and unfamiliar tech to humanity and hence the gun tends to be a little less controllable maybe similar to the plasma rifle of halo being both accurate but not effective at sustained fire.

RATE OF FIRE.

NC- lowest rate of fire as a result of heavier larger rounds and more unreliable guns.

TR- well maintained military light round rifles have higher and more reliable ROF

VS- Energy weapons are again new tech so they are slower than TR but they are in better condition and are more reliable than NC scrap guns.

DAMAGE PER ROUND ALSO OBVIOUS.

NC- large calibre rounds and large bore rifles provide stopping power to every bullet a NC soldier sends down range.

TR- TR guns rely on their reliability and ease of use and cost efficiency which has meant the adoption of lighter rounds causing less damage per round.

VS - The energy rounds of the vanu tech lack the mass and kinetic energy of the NC rounds but due to the heat and energy they transfer they still pack a hefty punch.

CONCLUSION.

NC- New conglomerate weapons will require burst fire shooting as they will become erratic and unpredictable under any sort of sustained fire. They do high damage per shot but the rounds need to be placed properly promoting ambushing and movement.

TR- Terran republic weapons lack the immediate accuracy and punch of the NC but remain accurate over longer periods of time. Because of this the Terran will be best suited to the use of direct frontal assault and suppressive fire-power as they will be able to maintain consistent fire.

VS- Vanu weapon style are a little less black and white than NC or TR. Their round for round accuracy is high which suggests to me that VS might be must successful at firing single rounds at medium range as a hunter fires at a catch. Concentrating on semi-automatic fire to keep the untamed energy weapons at bay. This would promote tactical awareness of the entire surrounding as well as self preservation. A VS player running and gunning into a room of NC will be mowed down quickly so he must hang back and assess. A VS being too uncarefull with his shot placcement will also be unable to negate the suppression of the TR. This all sounds negative but I belive it suits the VS mindset (Though I'm NC through and through)

TLDR: Vanu have HIGH recoil and I believe they will need to rely on thoughtful semi-automatic use of their guns to achieve the best results. This is my understanding as well, though you put it better than I could have. I also agree with your assessment that it sounds somewhat negative. It has me worried.

Yes, that's what I understood, VS weapons are "precise" because they hit on the crosshair and don't have any bullet drop over distance, but they have high recoil.

Just watch the video, very often, VS "bullets" go all over the place in sustained fire.
This matches what I've seen as well. It's why I've been so concerned. What good is high 'accuracy' if you still spray everywhere? Perhaps the cone is tight if you fire in bursts?

[soulsurfsublime]

I am looking through the PC gamer I got a beta key from in march and it has that exact chart and says its for Planetside 2's differences. So I read it as Vanu has good accuracy, bad recoil, a low rof, and medium damage.

[Pyreal]

^^^This

The high/good accuracy means low/non existent recoil. To give something the label of high accuracy, the amount of recoil is considered. They go hand and hand.

So hopefully this answers your questions OP.


They obviously don't go 'hand and hand' when they are listed separately. Now if they were listed as 'Accuracy/Recoil' then you could so they crossed the bridge 'hand in hand'.