weapon usage

[RSphil]

hi all.

just want to hear people thoughts about the way the weapons handle from what we have seen in the vids.

from alot of the videos i have seen the guns seem to accurate when fired from the hip. Hammas vid showed this well when he was inside one of the places and shot the Vanu guy.

i have seen this in other vids and i have to say i dont like it. fairing from the hip should just spray all over. then when you aim it should be as it should be. nice accurate and deadly.

what do you guys think ?

[Gonefshn]

Definitely not too accurate fired from the hip I hate feeling like I need to put up the iron sights even when people are close.

[Xyntech]

Firing from the hip does not really literally mean holding the gun at your hip and spray and praying.

Firing from the hip would more appropriately be referred to as "firing from the shoulder." It's essentially bracing the gun, without tilting your head into position to use the actual sites. Realistically (and realism isn't always ideal) a person can still get highly accurate groupings of shots by using a rifle this way.

A lot of games go for far too much inaccuracy when firing "from the hip." I would like to see PS2 stay at it's current hip firing accuracy or even increase it slightly. I have no problem with iron sights being mandatory for accurate firing beyond 100m, but at medium range iron sights should only be useful for reliably landing head shots and at close range there should be zero benefit to going into iron sights.

That's not to say that a person can't use iron sights to fire at closer ranges, but it shouldn't be mandatory for players who don't like using them.

tl;dr At long range, iron sights should be better than hip fire. At medium range, iron sights should be more or less equal to hip fire. At short range, hip fire should actually be better than iron sights.

[Coreldan]

From what I have seen, the balance is good with this. In the recent videos most of the CQB kills were scored outside ADS, as in "firing from the hip" (which btw only happens in like PS1 and TF2, rest games actually have the weapon shouldered regardless, see what Xyntech wrote).

I dont want this to be totally arcade quake-mode, but neither do I want it to be "so you ran into a guy at 5m distance but didnt aim down the sights to shoot him? Tough luck, you missed"

[RSphil]

true but the characters in planetside look like the gun is lower then shoulder. id say rib hight. which is still hard to aim. i recon if the accuracy was turned down just a little it would be ok. i can see alot of players hardly using the sights. yes its ok for close rankge. mid range, meh spread should be a little more. then long range = not a mission lol.

[SFJake]

true but the characters in planetside look like the gun is lower then shoulder. id say rib hight. which is still hard to aim. i recon if the accuracy was turned down just a little it would be ok. i can see alot of players hardly using the sights. yes its ok for close rankge. mid range, meh spread should be a little more. then long range = not a mission lol.

I think its fine like that. I have no idea why you think it needs to be that innacurrate. I'm personally very glad this game doesn't follow every modern shooter rules to the letter. There's a reason I never enjoy any of those, and feeling like you have to look through a sight to shoot even up close is one of them.

Hip firing shouldn't just be in there to be useless.

[RSphil]

its just realism really. also im used to hardcore modes with no huds so that dosent really help with aiming.

have to try it and see. just looks too accurate from the vids and making the site redundant

[Gonefshn]

The site would be meant for ranged fire. you wouldn't have to use the sight in the same room as someone for example.

plus, this is still a game so regardless of hip fire, shoulder fire whatever balance > realism

[Coreldan]

its just realism really. also im used to hardcore modes with no huds so that dosent really help with aiming.

have to try it and see. just looks too accurate from the vids and making the site redundant

Not really. The times on videos where the "hip firing" has been effective have been like at or sub 10 meter ranges. Anything a tad longer ranged is usually done in ADS.

Not concerned at all personally.

[RSphil]

i always walk round corners and stuff with the sight up anyway. force of habit aslong as it dosent take the piss when fighting. as i said have to see in beta if i ever get in lol.

[maddoggg]

I think it's fine the way it is.
In games like bf3 for example hip firing is so bad that unless you are in some panic situation at a 5m distance from your oponent tops,it's no use really(good players zoom in even at close combat).
In ps2 you are still going to get awarded for zooming,but the current hipfire would allow you to hip fire enemies up to 10-15m away and while moving which might be usefull in some scenarios.
Also keep in mind than ps2 continents are noting like the maps of the typical arena based shooter these days,this means the majority of gun fights are going to be mid to long range where zoom in is a must.

[Rumblepit]

its called recoil, he is adjusting his mouse as he fires. not the gun, its the player.otherwise with the cof and the recoil shots would be all over the place. also he may have had a modded low cal fast rof gun which has very little cof.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

Firing from the hip does not really literally mean holding the gun at your hip and spray and praying.

Firing from the hip would more appropriately be referred to as "firing from the shoulder." It's essentially bracing the gun, without tilting your head into position to use the actual sites. Realistically (and realism isn't always ideal) a person can still get highly accurate groupings of shots by using a rifle this way.

A lot of games go for far too much inaccuracy when firing "from the hip." I would like to see PS2 stay at it's current hip firing accuracy or even increase it slightly. I have no problem with iron sights being mandatory for accurate firing beyond 100m, but at medium range iron sights should only be useful for reliably landing head shots and at close range there should be zero benefit to going into iron sights.

That's not to say that a person can't use iron sights to fire at closer ranges, but it shouldn't be mandatory for players who don't like using them.

tl;dr At long range, iron sights should be better than hip fire. At medium range, iron sights should be more or less equal to hip fire. At short range, hip fire should actually be better than iron sights.


This man speaks wise words from his lord, Vanu! Listen to him! Then shoot him, for being a bastard Barney!

[Lumberchuk]

A lot of games go for far too much inaccuracy when firing "from the hip." I would like to see PS2 stay at it's current hip firing accuracy or even increase it slightly. I have no problem with iron sights being mandatory for accurate firing beyond 100m, but at medium range iron sights should only be useful for reliably landing head shots and at close range there should be zero benefit to going into iron sights.




I agree with this completely. I hate having to go into ADS when the guy is like 10 feet from me. I know its not a great comparison (I don't fire many actual weapons at moving targets) but when I play paintball the only time I aim with sights is if someone is over 60m away or I sneak up on them and I really want to make sure I hit 1st shot, the rest of the time my gun is just against my shoulder and is still quite accurate, gives me much more visibility and makes manoeuvring much easier . This is how it should be in most games to as close and even medium range battles become more dynamic due to your increased strafe speed.

[Gonefshn]

i always walk round corners and stuff with the sight up anyway. force of habit aslong as it dosent take the piss when fighting. as i said have to see in beta if i ever get in lol.

COD definitely made me play like this. BF3 didn't do much to help and it always bothered me. sometimes you can make it work with hip fire but not enough.

There are lots of FPS fans out there who don't like to use iron sights always.
My friend I live with hates ADS. It should be a good balance to accomodate both and make them both viable depending on the situation.

[RSphil]

COD definitely made me play like this. BF3 didn't do much to help and it always bothered me. sometimes you can make it work with hip fire but not enough.

There are lots of FPS fans out there who don't like to use iron sights always.
My friend I live with hates ADS. It should be a good balance to accomodate both and make them both viable depending on the situation.

i always play hardcore on bf3 so have to aim as no cross hairs but its habit as irl you always are told to aim, check target and fire ect. so i guess its sort of drummed into me lol. have to see. wither way i know im gona love planetside 2:D:groovy:

[Xyntech]

I definitely don't mind the ADS crowd getting catered to, I just don't think PS2 is the type of game that needs to disenfranchise the hip firing crowd in the process.

Personally I think it's absurd when players are so accustomed to ADS that they use it on enemies who are 10 feet away from them, but if that's how some people want to roll, that's fine with me. But at more middle, average distance engagements, I don't want to feel like either play style is stupid or underpowered. A tiny increase in accuracy for ADS, versus the mobility and freedom of hip fire. They each should have their advantages, but at 50m it should balance out pretty evenly.

Personally I enjoy playing with crosshairs off in non competitive games. I'm actually quite proficient at hitting targets based entirely on my perceptual awareness of where the center of the screen should be (sticking tape on the screen is just weak sauce). In a competitive multiplayer game I do want cross hairs (especially considering that players will just use the aforementioned tape to gain an advantage), but I'm still okay with a small accuracy penalty on hip fire.

I think that the main issue here is combat engagement ranges. Battles in a lot of shooters (the original Planetside included) tend to take place at a lot shorter ranges than real guns are capable of operating at. In some games it's because they have smaller maps, in PS1's case it was because damage degradation made MA rifles pretty pathetic.

Personally, I'd like to see engagements be legitimately viable at beyond 100m in PS2, where ADS and scopes will be a valuable contributor to success. But inside if that distance, it should be a play style choice. Different skills, each with the same average odds of killing each other at a median engagement range.

[Bags]

Hip firing in the vids is pretty shit sadly from what we've seen. Will probably improve when the hip slung weapons (HA) are implemented since they're made for it.

[Xyntech]

Hip firing in the vids is pretty shit sadly from what we've seen. Will probably improve when the hip slung weapons (HA) are implemented since they're made for it.

If the default hip firing accuracy doesn't get improved, I hope there are at least sidegrade certs that allow for better hip firing.

It seems acceptable to me from what I've seen of the videos, but only just barely. The biggest complaint I have with the hip fire accuracy currently is that the movement penalty is too great. Regaining accuracy after sprinting or after stopping in place shouldn't take much longer than going into iron sights takes. I have no problem with being unable to fire while sprinting (that or spraying bullets in an absurd COF while sprinting), but once I stop, there is no reason why it should continue to penalize me.

It's shoulder fire after all, my character should be bracing the gun the moment I stop running. That, or there should be a few second delay between sprinting and being able to ADS, but that would just be retarded and annoying.

[Blackwolf]

hi all.

just want to hear people thoughts about the way the weapons handle from what we have seen in the vids.

from alot of the videos i have seen the guns seem to accurate when fired from the hip. Hammas vid showed this well when he was inside one of the places and shot the Vanu guy.

i have seen this in other vids and i have to say i dont like it. fairing from the hip should just spray all over. then when you aim it should be as it should be. nice accurate and deadly.

what do you guys think ?

If you fire from the hip you actually have a pretty good idea of where your bullets are landing, and spraying that area pretty much ensures that you aren't going to miss much.