Thanks Heinlein

[Meriv]

AFter seeing the trailer and being stunned the only thought it pass trough my mind is to say thanks to Robert A. Heinlein.

If it wouldn't by him we would have no Exo suits, no drops, no drop pods, no xeno-wars, no bouncing (jet packs) and a lot more things we have in modern sci-fi FPS.

(And probably TR background comes from his book inspiration too)

[Sephirex]

AFter seeing the trailer and being stunned the only thought it pass trough my mind is to say thanks to Robert A. Heinlein.

If it wouldn't by him we would have no Exo suits, no drops, no drop pods, no xeno-wars, no bouncing (jet packs) and a lot more things we have in modern sci-fi FPS.

(And probably TR background comes from his book inspiration too)

So mad I lost my old beat up copy of Starship Troopers.

Maybe we could celebrate Heinlein's birthday in game each year.

[J Baley]

Starship Troopers is one of my top ten favorites. Robert A. Heinlein and Isaac Asimov are two authors who I adore.

[Bittermen]

Hell yea, I recently made a TR trailer with a Heinlein quote at the beginning of it.


If there never was a Robert Heinlein someone else would have eventually come up powered exo-skeletons.

[MorioMortis]

If there never was a Robert Heinlein someone else would have eventually come up powered exo-skeletons.

Starship Trooper isn't just about the MI power armor, it's about the social critism of "free " democracy and bureaucracy (and a few obvious stabs at communism, but that's to be expected at the period).

The fact that it's a great depiction of both esprit de corp and brotherhood without being overly patriotic also makes it a great book.

Of course, badass space-borne, nuke-wielding apes in exo-suits add a bit of flair to it all :)

[Mutant]

I have to admit; watching the trailer made me think of Starship Troopers.

I just reread it over my spring holiday too :D

[soulsurfsublime]

say thanks to Robert A. Heinlein.

Right on!

[ZaBa]

(And probably TR background comes from his book inspiration too)

You mean the background where everyone in the TR is related to each other and also married and also their own parents somehow?

[Cuross]

I must say that Starship troopers is definitely one of my favorite books of all time, I am feeling that this game is more like Armor by John Steakley.

But Heinlein is a great man to credit for the masterpieces of sci-fi.

[Bittermen]

Starship Trooper isn't just about the MI power armor, it's about the social critism of "free " democracy and bureaucracy (and a few obvious stabs at communism, but that's to be expected at the period).

The fact that it's a great depiction of both esprit de corp and brotherhood without being overly patriotic also makes it a great book.

Of course, badass space-borne, nuke-wielding apes in exo-suits add a bit of flair to it all :)

Yes I have read it multiple times.

Armor is also a sweet book. Ever read Forever war or Old Mans War?

[Ghostwing]

You apes want to live forever?!?!

They should make that line into a voice macro!:D

[Sledgecrushr]

"I always get the shakes before a drop" im listening to Starship troopers right now as an audio book loaned from my public library. Use this app http://www.overdrive.com/software/omc/ ive never listened to an audio book before but its simply amazing to have it read to me while Im working.

[SteinB]

"TR Mister Rico, zillions of em!"

[Geist]

"NC/VS Mister Rico, zillions of em!"

Fixed. :p

[Canaris]

lol I watched Starship Troopers last night from some whim, glad I did :thumbsup:

[Gonefshn]

Starship troopers reminds me more of that game defiance that is coming out because of the bugs, but truly without Heinlein we would be so lost.

[Rivenshield]

I know it's not strictly Heinlein (/salute), but Klendathu Drop is still the quasi-official TR anthem, isn't it? I remember us voting for it on the forums, many moons ago....

Klendathu Drop - Starship Troopers Soundtrack - YouTube

[SeanNewBoy]

All Hail the Heinlein!:love:

[Sledgecrushr]

Yeah I think the honorable Robert A Heinlein would be very proud of this vision based loosely off of his book. If he was alive he would play with us I think.

[johnnyex]

Not sure how many of you guys are in the Army or Marines, but Starship Troopers is not a book to be glorified.

[SGTalon]

Heinlein was a freak.

If you ahve ever read some of his more obscure books there is a lot of incest, communism, and generally degenerate types of behaviors.

But i still love Heinlein books. The Moon is a Harsh Mistress is probably my favorite.

[Sephirex]

Not sure how many of you guys are in the Army or Marines, but Starship Troopers is not a book to be glorified.

It's not a vision we should strive for...But there's nothing wrong with celebrating and expounding upon the works of great authors. Even those who wrote of dystopias and suffering.

[soulsurfsublime]

Not sure how many of you guys are in the Army or Marines, but Starship Troopers is not a book to be glorified.

I just thought it was really amazing to see a post about an author and encouraging reading on a video game forum. Reading is for winners!

[Sledgecrushr]

Heinlein is my all time favorite author. I have been rereading his books since I was just a kid. He never wrote another book like star ship troopers but everything else he has written is just as good. Also if you do intend on playing TR, reading SS Troopers will give you a sense of esprit de corp.

[GhettoPrince]

Yeah, It's a weird book, it's basically the third reich in space, except the master race is humans. Easily half the book is just long author tracts on why fascism is awesome.

[Sephirex]

Yeah, It's a weird book, it's basically the third reich in space, except the master race is humans. Easily half the book is just long author tracts on why fascism is awesome.

Mmmm.....War Hammer 40k. Heinlein has truly given us so much.

[UnDeAdKiTtY]

I love Heinlein as well, stranger in a strange land is amazing.

I love sci fi so much, because you can keep adding and changing things,

Fantasy is fun but its very static, GO Science Fiction.

And a super thanks to the planetside team from making such a great sci fi

shooter.

[Bittermen]

It's not a vision we should strive for...But there's nothing wrong with celebrating and expounding upon the works of great authors. Even those who wrote of dystopias and suffering.

Not so sure about that. If everyone knew the cost of war I'm sure we would avoid it more.

 Federal Service is not necessarily military, although it is suggested that hardship and strict discipline are pervasive. According to Poul Anderson, Heinlein got the idea not from Nazi Germany or Sparta, but from Switzerland
Service=Voting Power.

Yeah, It's a weird book, it's basically the third reich in space, except the master race is humans. Easily half the book is just long author tracts on why fascism is awesome.

The book has been accused of being fascist. But imo and Heinlein's it is not. It's an extrapolation of 1950's politics.

And in noway is it the "Third Reich' In space. Not sure if we read the same book.

Defenders of the book usually point out that although the electoral franchise is limited, the government of the Terran Federation is democratically elected. There is freedom of speech, freedom of the press, and freedom of conscience for non-citizens ("residents"). The military service is entirely volunteer, with no conscription: infantrymen can even resign just before being sent into combat, with no sanction other than discharge without the right to citizenship and the vote. The society described in the book is multiracial, multi-religious, and multi-ethnic. The protagonist Juan Rico is Filipino and others in his training group are American, Japanese, German, Australian, and Turkish, and one or two have recognizably Jewish last names. Women play a prominent role in the military, especially as pilots and ships' captains. Many also argue that Heinlein was simply discussing the merits of a "selective versus nonselective franchise."[33][volume & issue needed] Heinlein made a similar claim in his Expanded Universe and further noted that 95% of "veterans" were not military personnel but members of the civil service and that only retired veterans could vote or hold office.

Our society is on track to becoming more like Heinlein's Terran Federation.(Just look at the past decade)

You want to go to college? Want benefits? ? no loans after college? Join the military.

[Sledgecrushr]

I support Heinleins vision of the future.

[Sephirex]

Not so sure about that. If everyone knew the cost of war I'm sure we would avoid it more.


Service=Voting Power.



The book has been accused of being fascist. But imo and Heinlein's it is not. It's an extrapolation of 1950's politics.


And in noway is it the "Third Reich' In space. Not sure if we read the same book.

Just not sure if I'm comfortable with a system where the government can decide which future voters get suicide missions and which ones get promotions and desk jobs.

Also Service=Citizenship falls back to Roman values, just like the Third Reich did, so there's some room for comparison, though perhaps not justified.

[Bittermen]

Just not sure if I'm comfortable with a system where the government can decide which future voters get suicide missions and which ones get promotions and desk jobs.

Also Service=Citizenship falls back to Roman values, just like the Third Reich did, so there's some room for comparison, though perhaps not justified.


First of all the Military is a MASSIVE entity. Only a small fraction are combat roles.

And again...

infantrymen can even resign just before being sent into combat, with no sanction other than discharge without the right to citizenship and the vote

This is Heinlein's Society. Read my bottom quote of my previous post.

[Sledgecrushr]

Just not sure if I'm comfortable with a system where the government can decide which future voters get suicide missions and which ones get promotions and desk jobs.

Also Service=Citizenship falls back to Roman values, just like the Third Reich did, so there's some room for comparison, though perhaps not justified.

Luckily I have just finished reading Star Ship Troopers about an hour ago and I am happy to inform you that everyone that is physically capable of fighting, cooks, chaplain, general..they all drop into combat. The only way to get a cushy military desk job is to be so seriously wounded that you would be a detriment to your outfit. Of course if you survived two years of military you could get out and be considered a citizen and then you could vote.

[Sephirex]

First of all the Military is a MASSIVE entity. Only a small fraction are combat roles.

And again...

Yep and it wouldn't be too hard to make sure potential troublemakers end up in those combat roles.

Luckily I have just finished reading Star Ship Troopers about an hour ago and I am happy to inform you that everyone that is physically capable of fighting, cooks, chaplain, general..they all drop into combat. The only way to get a cushy military desk job is to be so seriously wounded that you would be a detriment to your outfit. Of course if you survived two years of military you could get out and be considered a citizen and then you could vote.

Of course. His views are perfect! All governments are perfect on paper, because they accept that everyone chips in and does their part. Democracy, Fascism, and Communism could all be fantastic if done right except for one problem.

People. People always break the system down. It's finding the system where the least damage can be done by the corrupt.

[Bittermen]

His work as be accused of being Utopian...


"democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest"

Also Service=Citizenship falls back to Roman values, just like the Third Reich did, so there's some room for comparison, though perhaps not justified.
I'd also just like to say Democracy is heavily based on the Romans... Just look at all of our Government buildings...

[Sephirex]

His work as be accused of being Utopian...


"democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest"


I'd also just like to say Democracy is heavily based on the Romans... Just look at all of our Government buildings...

You're under the impression I like our government...

[Bittermen]

Your under the impression that you would like any government.

Hence the point of
"democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest"


We all hate our government.

[Sephirex]

Your under the impression that you would like any government.

Hence the point of
"democracy is the worst form of government except for all the rest"


We all hate our government.

Then I'm not sure why we're arguing.

[Bittermen]

Then I'm not sure why we're arguing.

We aren't. I just pointed out that a reference you made also applies to our own government.


But if you refering to previous posts then it's because of...

It's not a vision we should strive for.

[Caldazar]

First of all the Military is a MASSIVE entity. Only a small fraction are combat roles.

Col. David Hackworth, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hackworth, brought up an interesting point regarding this very quote and this very novel.

Mandatory federal service could easily be implemented with a minimal commitment of the populace to combat arms. Explain to me why every individual branch of the military needs its' own cooks, doctors, dentists, mechanics, truck drivers, engineers, payroll accountants, etc. You could combine all of these roles into a new branch of service and have the existing branches focus specifically on their strategic goals.

This proposal maximizes the efficiency of the combat branches and the "support" branch, eliminates overlap in the military budget and has greater appeal generating volunteers. You could then enact mandatory government service w/o putting every son and daughter on the front lines, 3 years of service and boom, college or trade school is paid in full... free. Hell you could use the "support" branch as a domestic peace corp and have them focus on rebuilding the American infrastructure.

Nevermind me though, I'm just a crazy college educated ex-Ranger throwing out fascists ideas.....

[Sephirex]

We aren't. I just pointed out that a reference you made also applies to our own government.


But if you refering to previous posts then it's because of...

Ah, I made that point because I feel looking for a government type to save us is counterproductive. Governments are only as good as their society democracy or otherwise. However if you're pointing out the virtues shown by the people in the book of personal responsibility to society I couldn't agree more.

[Bittermen]

Mandatory Federal service could easily be implemented with a minimal commitment of the populace to combat arms.
This is how it should be imo.

[Meriv]

Going back to PS2 what i would like since it is a sci-fi sensor type of person, idk it can be a LA for example, in close range or something like that would be nice and make it pretty balanced since they took from him the ammo drop no?

And down below some thoughts
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I am wondering if in 200 years it will happen like in Jule Verne case where a lot of his ideas has come to reality.

But what i am expecting more to become reality comes from a Asimov idea in one of his stories to use Ice from Saturn Ring to help "terraform"(it wasn't for that in the story) Mars, but probably i will be long dead then :(

if you want to read some crazy thought at 2 am read below if not jump to next post :) --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Even if this is taking the way that in few post we will be discussing about Orwell, and pointing out that out of the great 3 i am a Asimov fan (not that you have to choose, i just wonder sometimes if studying a humanistic branch he would have ended creating new theories that would have helped a lot more the human race even at the cost of having no more 3 laws :S that are already helping a lot in the robotics).

You have just to take the good parts of Heinlen book and apply to the reality, Heinlein books give a solution to the nihilism of the modern society in ppl of at least my age (21) but you don't have to take it to the point of of the book that is utopistic and quite fascist.

My point is that you don't take away citizenship from born right but you create a camera (like senate, with his own powers etc..etc.. you should do a major constitutional change and i am not a sociologist ) for the people who has served for civil service (that exist from the second decade of the last century) or military service, obviously giving a proportional salary to give everyone a chance in it. In this way you are not taking away any rights, everyone borns with equal rights, but you can earn more if you realy want to change your reality. And to show that i am not right minded i would even extend it to foreigns that with a longer period of service and with a previous selection can earn the other nation citizenship.
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[MorioMortis]

In this way you are not taking away any rights, everyone borns with equal rights, but you can earn more if you realy want to change your reality. And to show that i am not right minded i would even extend it to foreigns that with a longer period of service and with a previous selection can earn the other nation citizenship.

In Heinlein's example, people are still born equal (nobody has citizenship at birth), but people have to prove they are worthy of deciding for their state. Although this is an affront to modern day liberty, it assures that your citizen population actually values your society, unlike our modern system where most people either have no idea what they are voting for, or are voting to ensure their own self interests (and let's not talk about the actual electoral and ruling processes, that, from a sociological standpoint, are far from "democratic").

The implementation of the system, however, could probably be better, as commented above, by adding a support structure that works; the one in the SS really cannot function in reality, as your combat and support structures are the same, and issues on either end are not mitigable : if your cook gets killed in combat, you don't have a cook. Worse, if your armorer buys it, you better hope your equipment doesn't fail for a while.

As long as you keep everything volunteer, and people are free to choose non-combat services (in the book, there is an allusion to this when some shipmen get into a fight with the MI, over a grudge that their service is not recognized for citizenship), than you have a system where citizenship requires a certain commitment to the state, rather than a meaningless age. In a way, it is similar to both the Hellenic and Roman early republics, but without the racial barriers enforcing the hierarchy.

[CutterJohn]

I like SST, but I don't really think it would have the effect Heinlein posited.. There are plenty of war hawks that have also seen combat and have no issues starting wars.

It wouldn't be a bad system, I don't feel, but it wouldn't create a utopia either.

[Rivenshield]

It wouldn't be a bad system, I don't feel, but it wouldn't create a utopia either.

He wrote the entire book while he was in a frothing black rage over the problem of youth crime. It stands as a monument to the virtues of what Victor Davis Hansen calls 'civic militarism' -- the whole classical idea that the people who vote and till the fields are also the ones who fight, and what an incredibly lethal combination that has been historically.

But yeah. People who spend too much time nosing around in SF novels often mistake Internal Consistency for the great god Realism. That system wouldn't work in RL, any more than the way our country geared up to fight WW2 would be a good way to run the peacetime US in the Information Age.

It's still a humdinger of a novel, though. As action fiction and as a political tract it works just fine. Not to mention it spawned a gigantic pornographic guilty pleasure of a movie. :D