Funneling the Zerg

[Gugabalog]

Any ideas on how to manipulate the zerg movement of your own side?

[Rhyfelwrr]

You must construct additional pylons!

You cant control noob trains, use them as a distraction while you go flank?

[Buggsy]

Squad spawning = no more command of the zerg.

[Arovien]

Higby mentioned during the AGN interview that the game itself will have a function called "Faction Priority system" (not sure if that is the correct name) which basically acts to funnel the zerg to key points on the continents.

[Gugabalog]

Ah. Thats a nifty feature.

[Rabaan]

You must construct additional pylons!

You cant control noob trains, use them as a distraction while you go flank?

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22238425.jpg

you must breed more overlords

[ExplodingSilver]

Higby mentioned during the AGN interview that the game itself will have a function called "Faction Priority system" (not sure if that is the correct name) which basically acts to funnel the zerg to key points on the continents.

I estimate this "Faction Priority system" is also key for lag control on the server side, ie direct people to several big battles that are fun and the netcode can handle, rather than one 2000 player colossal battle in a small area than gets laggy

[Harasus]

Is there not some "High Command" system in Planetside? Essentially people who have been online much, led squads and killed/capped a lot who can then try to lead the players around? That might have been Planetside 1, but if those persons can decide where the Faction Priority system would, well, prioritize... That would be pretty sweet.

[Gugabalog]

There's also a player made mission system of some sort.

[maddoggg]

Any ideas on how to manipulate the zerg movement of your own side?

Pretend you are the overmind.

[AThreatToYou]

Zerg movement will now be nearly completely out of centralized player control now for a few reasons:

- Command being more "chunky"
- Mission system
- Faction priority system
- Squad spawning
- Hex territory system
- Being free-to-play

[Littleman]

There really wasn't any funneling of the zerg in PS1, despite what some may claim. The lattice system didn't really give them much choice on where to go except where ever the line starting from their base ended.

[BlueSkies]

Is there not some "High Command" system in Planetside? Essentially people who have been online much, led squads and killed/capped a lot who can then try to lead the players around? That might have been Planetside 1, but if those persons can decide where the Faction Priority system would, well, prioritize... That would be pretty sweet.

Yep... PS1 had command rank, that would eventually let you send messages to all allied players on a cont or across the entire game. Nevertheless, redirecting the zerg was usually fruitless.

There was a period where commanders tried directing the zerg by blowing up friendly spawn tubes, thereby limiting where the zerg could go. This was removed though...

Hopefully, the commander crafted mission system will be more functional in this regard. I know the devs are very interested in giving commanders a way to split up their forces (2000 people fighting over one capture point would be... ugly.

[foam]

I'm going to laugh if tactics, strategy and super organized outfits mean nothing in release. It will be funny if zergs ruled the day. In most games i've played zergs always win, I tend to avoid them at all costs unless you're with an organized zerg.

[Boomhowser]

PS1 on Werner thier were some good CR5's who id listen to and their were some awful ones who I chose to ignore.. the good ones were able to direct the zerg without being an ass the bad ones tried to demand the zerg do as they told them..

[DrShadowSML]

PS1 on Werner thier were some good CR5's who id listen to and their were some awful ones who I chose to ignore.. the good ones were able to direct the zerg without being an ass the bad ones tried to demand the zerg do as they told them..

It just takes leadership, organization, communication, and dicipline. The problem is that so many players will just be acting on their own or in a small squad that there will always be a zerg running rampant. However, this new territory system may change the way battles progressed in PS1. We just have to wait and see what happens when hundreds and hundreds of people play at once.
I think that there will be a more defined front line along with battles behind enemy lines. I would imagine that the zerg would be focused on advancing the front line while outfits do the backhacks.
:doh:

[Xyntech]

Any ideas on how to manipulate the zerg movement of your own side?

Personally, I'm far more interested in how to manipulate the zerg movement of the enemy sides.

Herd them in, like sheep to the slaughter.

[PredatorFour]

To the OP, it is easy my friend. Just do what LFS used to do on werner and pull LOTS of tanks/ armour / support. This then pushes the zerg where you want it to go. Simple.

[KTNApollo]

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22238425.jpg

you must spawn* more overlords

fixed

[Timithos]

I'm going to laugh if tactics, strategy and super organized outfits mean nothing in release. It will be funny if zergs ruled the day. In most games i've played zergs always win, I tend to avoid them at all costs unless you're with an organized zerg.

Organized Zerg: You just invented a new oxymoron.

In PS1 the zerg is centered on 1-3 spots, and it's all about the major facility battle. Facilities connected, more or less, in a domino fashion where you take this facility before that one, and that one before this one. This isn't true anymore in PS2.

PS2 has a sectors of hexes with resources. The resources are given more importance. No longer are you taking a facility to unlock armored vehicles, so that now you have tanks on this continent. You're taking a 7+ hex sectors to unlock a lot of resources, and the vehicles terms that exist in that sector are incidental. You had all the vehicles already. What you needed more resources to pull more and faster. The new vehicle & equipment terms you capture are only for tactical spawn locations now.

In PS2 you now have a battleline of territory with resources. There could be - say - 6 facilities that are being contested along this battleline on just one continent (with more facilties behind enemy lines that are not being contested... for the moment.) No longer can the zerg funnel to 1-3 spots in the entire game, when there on 6 spots in my example on this continent alone.

In PS2 you now have Player Generated Missions which I gather there will be a lot of squad and platoon based missions - not zerg-size. How could you expect to generate a "zerg" mission to go to one facility when 6 are contested on this continent alone. (4 on another, 7 on the third.) And if you want more experience, you'll take only missions.

With PS2 faction priority system you can imagine there will be more priorities, and not 1-3 like in PS1. In PS1 you had the Instant Action feature. Players would choose it to get into the battle quickly, and look at the map to see where that ONE big battle is going on.

In PS2 the battles are not only about the facility, but the battleline. That battleline can be used to wrap/flank a sector with a facility, so that not only is it easier to capture but at the same time, harder for the enemy to hack back if you have the facility surrounded with other captured sectors.

And remember players are being auto-placed into squads/platoons - squads that are taking missions. So unless players have this turned off, this is the default.

The bottom line is: There is no way the zerg will be the same as PS1. It'll be more dispursed. And you probably won't want to control it, because there will just be unpredictable pockets of zerg spread out everywhere.

I also hoping there won't be a Global leader chat. Outfits, Missions, reading the Map, and the Faction Priority System should be enough to tell players where to go.

[Maarvy]

I dont think ill bother funneling the zerg , with friendly fire on and the high concentration of retards on the planet its not worth the effort .

Word is organised outfits will need to clear there own muppet zerg to effectivly engage the enemy I dont have a problem with this . If i have to clean 100 randoms to engage a facility without bieng TK'd by some idiot thats exactly what will happen .

In the long term with FF on i could see 2 inner games evolving , one involving the large organised guilds showing eachother some common courtesy on the field . Another for the " lesser " entitys that get brushed aside to get shit done .

[Harasus]

This elitism is amusing.

[ArmedZealot]

fixed

Thanks. That was bugging the lings outta me.

[Maarvy]

This elitism is amusing.

Maybe so ....

However with FF on and such a low TTK getting shot in the back and rolled over by careless vehicles is going to get old really fast .

If im moving my 30-50 guys on a base alongside some other outfit I'm the kinda guy who would clear the randoms out first just to be sure .

[Insanekanifer]

Gotta be honest Maarv has a point. If your doing spec ops why would you risk it with randies around?

[vVRedOctoberVv]

This elitism is amusing.

It's not really elitism. By their nature, a mass blob of random people with no clear plan are going to get in the way. Dozens of people running pell mell everywhere greatly increases confusion, ff incidents, running people over. If a bunch of zerglings are busy "thumping" a doorway that you're trying to get through, and they're too stupid to pause in their firing to let you through, it may be necessary at times to clear them out for the sake of the objective.

Unfortunately, you know how everybody starts shouting "shut up noob! It's just a game!" when I start talking about realism? There will be thousands of people with an exaggerated "this is a just a game" mentality, concentrating on what ever happens to be dangling immediately in front of their eyes.

It's not "elitism", it's just recognising the "mob mentality" people tend to develop in large groups. It's funny, in ME, the Geth are supposed to get smarter the more of them are in proximity to each other :) In RL, people seem to get dumber the more of them there are :D

[Sephirex]

Going to be curious how the final FF punishment system will affect all these wonderful plans and theories I'm hearing.

[Maarvy]

Going to be curious how the final FF punishment system will affect all these wonderful plans and theories I'm hearing.

Indeed , It's one of the things that could be a deal breaker for people . On one hand penalties for TK'ing are fine , but if it leaves you at the mercy of random FTP players that just don't care it will realy suck .

Somehow id rather leave it in the hands of the players

[Rybka]

I'll probably just look to see where the zerg is going, then go the opposite way....probably easier than wading through that mess :groovy:

[MrMorton]

I'm going to laugh if tactics, strategy and super organized outfits mean nothing in release. It will be funny if zergs ruled the day. In most games i've played zergs always win, I tend to avoid them at all costs unless you're with an organized zerg.

zerg so op since the queen range buff. especially vs TeRran

[Neurotoxin]

Rally all the outfits on the server to work together and be in communication, then rely on fellow outfits and their leadership to hold up their end of the fight.

Kill farming won't be an issue in PS2. Either you are somewhere that nobody is attacking and should probably think of moving on soon, or you are somewhere that enemies are attacking and they are coming at a steady pace.

[GhettoPrince]

Well, just on one continent you're talking about 600+ people, 1800+ if you're talking about your entire sides potential prime time server population.

You're not gonna be able to manipulate 1800+ people, no way, maybe some of the more competent outfits will get together and spend some time talking about what they plan to do that night, but that's about as much control as you can get when you're dealing with that many people.

Shit, just going back to world of tanks, NASA, the north american server alliance, was maybe 7 clans and 600 people and it took them a crazy amount of work every week to get everyone on the same page, and it still exploded in less than three months.

Anyway, with only 3 continents in at release it's not like you're going to have anywhere to funnel to for a few weeks/months. Honestly? with that many people ,you can easily win your fight on one side of the map but still lose the whole map because the other side crumbled or you got hit by both other factions or any of a dozen things that a zerg can't do shit about.

[Envenom]

Maybe so ....

However with FF on and such a low TTK getting shot in the back and rolled over by careless vehicles is going to get old really fast .

If im moving my 30-50 guys on a base alongside some other outfit I'm the kinda guy who would clear the randoms out first just to be sure .

I hope the TK punishment system is incredibly severe so people like you fall into line. Get off your high horse.

[Minigun]

I still believe with the amount of people they're trying to achieve per continent there will be nothing but zerg. Its going to be extremely dense across the entire continent be prepared for 24/7 gridlock 3-way circle jerks. Unless you somehow manage to get 300 people to do something you ask of them there simply will not be enough people to make a difference any wheres if you attack tactically. My 2cents

[feuerdog]

Even with such an evenly spaced front of objectives, there will be an ebb and flow to combat intensity in and around the contested territories.

Concentrated efforts, zerg'd or organized are bound to shift attention from one spot to another, creating both hotspots and gaps in the line.

The more players online and playing won't stabilize the line, they'll complicate it, with deeper penetrations of the line, more violent and rapid captures, and in general more communication confusion for each faction.

In PS1 the lattice restricted alot of behind the lines action.
In PS2 the hex grid will open up many more possibilities we haven't even explored yet.
The key will be beta testing the time delays for capturing and defending territories.

I am convinced that no matter what the timing and resource system is like, there will be a more rapid and therefore unpredictable ebb and flow of the front line.

Zerging will happen. Plain and simple. The best way I can think of to affect the zerg is go where it isn't and force it to respond to you. Whether thats through organized play or a counterzerg is up to us.

[Maarvy]

I hope the TK punishment system is incredibly severe so people like you fall into line. Get off your high horse.

Errrmm .... No .

[Sephirex]

Errrmm .... No .

I don't see the point in people throwing out words at you like elitist.

However, wouldn't you be concerned about getting a reputation to the point where FF becomes an active problem every time you pass through a populated area?

On top of that, you're encouraging fighting in the ranks, which could lead to further confusion and distrust. Winning the battle only to lose the war, thanks to a slow decline in Empire cohesion.

[Timithos]

Even with such an evenly spaced front of objectives, there will be an ebb and flow to combat intensity in and around the contested territories.

Concentrated efforts, zerg'd or organized are bound to shift attention from one spot to another, creating both hotspots and gaps in the line.

The more players online and playing won't stabilize the line, they'll complicate it, with deeper penetrations of the line, more violent and rapid captures, and in general more communication confusion for each faction.

In PS1 the lattice restricted alot of behind the lines action.
In PS2 the hex grid will open up many more possibilities we haven't even explored yet.
The key will be beta testing the time delays for capturing and defending territories.

I am convinced that no matter what the timing and resource system is like, there will be a more rapid and therefore unpredictable ebb and flow of the front line.

Zerging will happen. Plain and simple. The best way I can think of to affect the zerg is go where it isn't and force it to respond to you. Whether thats through organized play or a counterzerg is up to us.

I agree with everything you said, except I believe zerg presence will be more dispursed then you do.

So more...

There are factors in the game that will continually siphon off the zerg from being... a zerg.

A) Zerg-like players will be defaulted in joining public squads/platioons, and they'll want the xp these units give them.

B) Zerg-like players will want more xp, so they'll join missions which will be, I believe,force-level requests mainly at the squad and platoon-strength level. These missions will be sending them anywhere and everywhere.

C) PS2's Faction Priority System can't send people to only 1-3 hotspots. Why? Because this is not PS1. There won't be only 1-3 hotspots. So the system will dispurse players all over. I don't care if it's 4-6 hotspots (let alone 10). That's still double PS1 and will cut the zerg in half on this factor alone.

D) If you set your outfits platoon or squad to public (conjecture), you'll siphon off zerglings, where you whip them into shape on what your doing on your mission, or they leave/get kicked.

E) Every sector is crucial. I don't care if it's a two-hex sector with only a single bunker and no resources. It's a puncture into the front line that expands the enemy's SOI, and hacking influence of surrounding capture points. Someone will send a mission there. Perhaps a 10-squad of zerglings will take the mission - a squad that is now... no longer part of the zerg. It's been siphoned off yet some more.

[SixShooter]

Any ideas on how to manipulate the zerg movement of your own side?

I'm going to go with rope fences, like Disney Land.
:lol:

[Maarvy]

I don't see the point in throwing out words like elitist.

However, wouldn't you be concerned about getting a reputation to the point where FF becomes an active problem every time you pass through a populated area?

On top of that, you're encouraging fighting in the ranks, which could lead to further confusion and distrust. Winning the battle only to lose the war, thanks to a slow decline in Empire cohesion.

Well hopefully game mechanics take care of careless players . It may however be more difficult than you imagine to do so .

And yes if its left to the players there may come a time when many outfits will just clear problematic random's . Doing it this way would certainly build various reputations amongst squads which in the longer term may even be a bigger kick up the ass to watch your fire .

If it become common knowlage even broadcast on chat channels that when X Y or Z outfit is in the area your likley to get you ass handed to you for being careless or stupid .

[Sephirex]

Well hopefully game mechanics take care of careless players . It may however be more difficult than you imagine to do so .

And yes if its left to the players there may come a time when many outfits will just clear problematic random's . Doing it this way would certainly build various reputations amongst squads which in the longer term may even be a bigger kick up the ass to watch your fire .

If it become common knowlage even broadcast on chat channels that when X Y or Z outfit is in the area your likley to get you ass handed to you for being careless or stupid .

Very valid reasoning. It may easily turn out that way as well.
I guess the real turning point is whether the zerg falls in line or rises up.

[Gugabalog]

I can see certain outfits having rotating kill squads to keep any group of their memebers bgetting locked for random clearing.

I can see the defenders watching and thinking... "**** Outfit incoming"

[Littleman]

I can see certain outfits having rotating kill squads to keep any group of their memebers b\getting locked for random clearing.

I can see the defenders watching and thinking... "**** Outfit incoming"

I can also see SOE noticing the volume of reports towards members of a single outfit and the accompanying TK count from said single outfit, and bringing down the heavy hand of their law down upon it in a single sweep if they really need to. However, I think we can trust they'll be professional about it and just single out the individuals causing trouble.

A problematic outfit organizing TK's is WORSE than problematic randoms accidentally shooting your stupid ass in the back of the head because you can't be bothered to heed their stream of bullets. However, focusing on the guild's members is also so much easier to handle. So many complaints towards members of a specific outfit might spark an investigation. At least, I hope they would.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

Very valid reasoning. It may easily turn out that way as well.
I guess the real turning point is whether the zerg falls in line or rises up.

Wouldn't that be funny if TR being ruthless started a civil war? Oh wait...

[Sephirex]

Wouldn't that be funny if TR being ruthless started a civil war? Oh wait...

The irony is amazing. I'm certainly not going to dissuade him. After all, not my empire. :D

[Gugabalog]

Yea. We don't want a repeat of the TR on an outfit level basis.

[Goldeh]

Pshh easy.

Get a soundboard of Arnold Schwarzenegger telling people where to go! For instance, it's obvious he is refering to the Galaxy here when he speaks of the "choppa"

Ventrilo Harassment - Predator - YouTube

[Maarvy]

I can also see SOE noticing the volume of reports towards members of a single outfit and the accompanying TK count from said single outfit, and bringing down the heavy hand of their law down upon it in a single sweep if they really need to. However, I think we can trust they'll be professional about it and just single out the individuals causing trouble.

A problematic outfit organizing TK's is WORSE than problematic randoms accidentally shooting your stupid ass in the back of the head because you can't be bothered to heed their stream of bullets. However, focusing on the guild's members is also so much easier to handle. So many complaints towards members of a specific outfit might spark an investigation. At least, I hope they would.

In a game with open pvp and FF imposed solution often dont work I can see this bieng the case in planetside .

Players policing themselfs on the other hand often does .

I don't see the problem , more player freedom is better , sythetic coded solutions often arent needed .

[Gugabalog]

Aside from the grief point system, there is always teamkilling the teamkiller.

It's not liek the Falador Massacre.

[Buggsy]

I'm going to laugh if tactics, strategy and super organized outfits mean nothing in release. It will be funny if zergs ruled the day. In most games i've played zergs always win, I tend to avoid them at all costs unless you're with an organized zerg.

That's because defensive tactics isn't put into the game. Look at all the resistance to having effective CE like mines and spitfire turrets.

Yep... PS1 had command rank, that would eventually let you send messages to all allied players on a cont or across the entire game. Nevertheless, redirecting the zerg was usually fruitless.

I use to be able to control the zerg with the AMS, but that won't work with squad spawning.

Is there not some "High Command" system in Planetside? Essentially people who have been online much, led squads and killed/capped a lot who can then try to lead the players around? That might have been Planetside 1, but if those persons can decide where the Faction Priority system would, well, prioritize... That would be pretty sweet.



NO! wwiionline had an official developer strengthened High Command and players didn't even listen to them either. You know why? Cause they suck at tactics and players don't like being cannon-fodder for people who suck and consistently lose battles.

[mintyc]

in ps1 the CR5's only had cookies (they were always a lie) to try and get the zerg to move, some times it worked others it just split the force.

hopefully the new missions system will give whoever is in command a little bit of control of the the unruly toddler that is a PS zerg.

[CutterJohn]

That's because defensive tactics isn't put into the game. Look at all the resistance to having effective CE like mines and spitfire turrets.

I think most people just have issue with the set it and forget it style of defenses. Few care much about mines of an engineer that is actively defending the base.



Regarding controlling the zerg... Why do any of you feel you deserve control or influence over how other people play their game? This is not a military. Nobody is in charge of someone else, unless they allow other people to be in charge of them.

[Fylix]

Plant some psi emitters.

[Gugabalog]

So I guess the idea is the rely on the Zerg to act like the Russians during WW2.

I can work with that.

[Buggsy]

I think most people just have issue with the set it and forget it style of defenses. Few care much about mines of an engineer that is actively defending the base.



Regarding controlling the zerg... Why do any of you feel you deserve control or influence over how other people play their game? This is not a military. Nobody is in charge of someone else, unless they allow other people to be in charge of them.

Then what purpose does Command Rank serve? oh yeah I-win CUD abilities, CR's don't really command.

While every CR5 in PS1 was playing Rommel wannabees in general chat, the real commanders were out driving AMS'ses all over the place.

Commanders control the spawn points, spawn points mean everything in a FPS game.

Spawn Point = Command System
Command System = Spawn Point

Exact same thing goes for WWIIONLINE, the only other MMOFPS in existence.

____________________

As far as defense is concerned, the entire purpose of defense is to defend an area with less players so you can concentrate players in an attack somewhere else.

That's the real life definition of defense tactics. How about the video game definition? Defense is something to do when you get tired of 24/7 frontal assault, or something for older players to do who want a more relaxing thoughtful/cerebral game play experience.

[fvdham]

The zerg always goes to the closest base.
In PS1 people even went to close bases that could not even be hacked, because of a shield covering the base.

Any ideas on how to manipulate the zerg movement of your own side?

One successful cr5 said: social skills.

AMS

I have driven around AMS trying to control where the next attack would take place.
Sometimes this worked.

One problem was, while I put an AMS near a target, some1 would put an AMS
in the friendly base where every1 already was, so nobody could spawn at my target.