Some tech questions and what not

[KimJongLulz]

So, of course this is my first post here hurrah.

I was wondering what exactly do they mean by low end computers can run it...I might just be the defintion of low end....

OS: Vista 64bit SP1 (I cant get SP2...at all...)
Mobo: MSI MS-7309 (K9N6PGM2-V)
CPU: Athlon II X2 250 (3.01ghz Dual Core)
Video Card/GPU/Whatever: 9800gt 1gb
RAM: DDR2 4gb
PSU: 750w

NOW thats not exactly the best computer in the world...matter of fact it was a pre built computer...the only thing I changed was the PSU and Video Card (They tried to call a 9600gt a "gaming computer card")...yeah. NOW I am wondering will my computer run PS2 "Decently", im not looking to completely destroy the graphics just enough so its playable (comfortably playable)

I am also trying to figure what to upgrade. I am looking to get a Phenom II X4 945, its AM3 and is 95w (mostly the only quad core I feel comfortable putting into my mobo...that would even work.)...then again I am VERY MUCH READY TO UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 7....problem is I have been through hell and back with MS support to try and get SP2 installed but no avail...I cant even repair my OS with a "back up installer" they taught me to make... I am scared to spend 100 bucks on Window 7 only to learn I cant even upgrade to it. (which I find HIGHLY disputable.) AND then there is the GPU...I don't know the 9800gt has been faithful so far, of course I have to use beta drivers from like 2011 because most if not all the drivers on 2012 crash NVDDLKM.sys or whatever and of course gives me a green youtube video. I might get a upgrade some day, once again I am concerned about the mobo and bottlenecking. RAM is good...its the max the mobo uses DDR2 and 4 gb.

Budget is very limited so...yeah. One thing at a time is good enough for me.

[Mutant]

You are looking at running PS2 in rock bottom settings.
Defining what you consider decent would help a little with what upgrade you really require


Athlon II X2 250 is about in par with an E8300 (one of the better C2D)

Phenom II X4 9xx would be a reasonable upgrade for you but still only going to move you into the acceptable range, just ensure your mobo supports any model you look at. (a quick look tells me a 95w X4 should be ok)


Your GPU is also going to be close to the minimum but I think your CPU required more attention, you can always turn down the graphics settings until you can improve that too.

[Goku]

KimJungLulz (love the name btw) your board doesn't seem to support anything higher then a Phenom II X4 @ 65W. Seems the board doesn't like anything over that rating for Phenom II. No idea why, but not sure if I would risk it. I don't really see any worthwhile CPUs under that list worth looking into as they are either out of production or too much $$$ ebay. I would probably just start saving up for a new rig altogether at this point. You maybe able to play the game at lower settings while you do.

[KimJongLulz]

KimJungLulz (love the name btw) your board doesn't seem to support anything higher then a Phenom II X4 @ 65W. Seems the board doesn't like anything over that rating for Phenom II. No idea why, but not sure if I would risk it. I don't really see any worthwhile CPUs under that list worth looking into as they are either out of production or too much $$$ ebay. I would probably just start saving up for a new rig altogether at this point. You maybe able to play the game at lower settings while you do.


http://www.cpu-upgrade.com/mb-MSI/K9N6PGM2-V_%28MS-7309%29.html

It would work, and apparently has...basically as long as its under 125 it should be fine and AM3 CPUs work on it as well.

Plus this if you wish to take a look.

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/342518-28-sort-motherboard-question#t2601096

[Goku]

I tend to just go off what is said under the official CPU support list. I don't want to be responsible in case something goes bad from the CPU not working to the mobo dying and taking the CPU with it. Anything outside of the official CPU list is totally at your own risk is all. There has to be a reason why MSI did not list support for it. Glad you found that of course.

[KimJongLulz]

Eh i'll take the risk...i've seen reviews for the 945 on tiger direct with a guy saying "it works fine in my AM2+ socket."

Im just wondering if my DDR2 RAM will bottleneck or effect it any way.

[Goku]

AM3 does work with AM2+ boards as it has both a DDR2 and DDR3 memory controller. However some lower end boards like yours lacked certain functions to support the processors properly that are higher end I have read over the years. I was running a high end 790FX AM2+ board with a 955 BE for over a year.

The DDR2 will not bottleneck you at all also. Nothing to worry about there at least.

[KimJongLulz]

Well thats good...looks like I might wait for a 945 to go on sale or get it sooner or later, I will probably have to upgrade BIOS some time before hand.

AS for Video card...the 9800gt has served me faithfully but I think it (and I) could use a rest some day. I'm not exactly looking for the best of the best...just a budget card that isn't too amazing. I might hunt down a GTX 280 or some GTX card that will work with the slot.

[Goku]

I would probably get this GTX 460 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125412). GTX 280 is old and power hungry. The card has been operating so long it may start to kick the bucket soon. I hear Nvidia will be bringing out its full line up comes August, so you maybe able to grab a GTX 650 or something like that around $150. No idea what we are looking at for performance numbers currently.

[KimJongLulz]

Well im sure there are other viable options for cards but i'll be sure to watch for a GTX 460.

So, so far I am waiting for a 945 to go on sale and GTX 460.

PSU is 750w,more than enough. 4gb of DDR2 ram is the max I can have...

All that is left is getting Windows 7, im sure with Windows 8 on the horizon they'll bump down the price (even if Win8 is apparently awful)

[Goku]

I believe the 945 is not in production any longer. Even if it is there is likely not many order being placed on the CPU. If anything I would just get it while its still around verse waiting till its to late. I don't think thats worth loosing $20 over.

Hmm don't think so. Never saw a official price drop on Win 7, instead it will be phased out.

[KimJongLulz]

Yeah ...I doubt they'll drop the price on the Win7....of course hopefully glorious masters of Microsoft will be merciful...

[Goku]

You could "upgrade" to Windows 8 at release for $40 if you don't want to spend the $100 on an OEM copy.

http://windowsteamblog.com/windows/b/bloggingwindows/archive/2012/07/02/upgrade-to-windows-8-pro-for-39-99.aspx

[KimJongLulz]

Hmm for 40 bucks.

Well...I have heard Win8 does have problems, but Im sure Win8 is much better than Vista and is a cheaper route that getting Windows 7.

[Goku]

Well consider we are still a few months from release still. Any potential issues should be settled by then. Only big thing with Win 8 is the switch to Metro UI from the old start button. I don't see any kind of compatibility issues happening like with Vista launched back all those years ago.

[Mutant]

There are no 'problems' with Windows 8, just metro is really not very useful on desktop (I hate it) but you can avoid it 99% of the time.

The latest build is stable and good for hardware compatibility. None of the issues that there were with vista.

Since win8 is free atm I would recommend anyone putting together a new pc to try it, if it really does not work for you go get windows 7 and reinstall.

[KimJongLulz]

Hm well if its free to try right now...I might download it.

Problem is im sure my USB network adapter isnt compatible.

PLUS what of other games I have...will they run with Windows 8, im kinda concerned about Project Reality and other games I have (WoW, Guild Wars 2 in time and Planetside 2 as well)?

[Mutant]

My experience has shown win8 to be OK with windows 7 drivers for anything that lacks specific windows 8 drivers.
Everything has 'worked' and a couple of things have had a few bugs but almost none with the latest builds.

check out compatibility here;
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/en-US/CompatCenter/Home
The list is not complete; launchpad and planetside are fine but not on the list.

[KimJongLulz]

Cool...everything I have seems compatible.

So how exactly do I download and use it? What exactly am I getting....a full blown OS or just a test trial? Will it rewrite my OS and what not? I'm all up for getting away from vista even if its a temporary thing until October 26 when they plan to release.

[Mutant]

It is a full OS, I think you can import your old settings from vista 64 and your old windows direction is placed in a .old folder (you can not boot from it anymore). (backup anything important to you just in-case though)
Or you can wipe your hdd for a clean start (I prefer to do this)
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/release-preview
The trail licence lasts till 16th Jan 2013.


"Upgrading

Can I upgrade from previous versions of Windows to Windows 8 Release Preview?
Yes, you can upgrade to Windows 8 Release Preview from Windows 8 Consumer Preview, Windows Developer Preview, Windows 7, Windows Vista, or Windows XP, but you might not be able to keep all of your files, programs, and settings. The following table shows what you can keep during an upgrade depending on the current version of Windows running on your PC:

Current operating system
What you can keep
Windows 8 Consumer Preview

> Nothing (your files will be saved in the Windows.old folder)

Windows Developer Preview

> Nothing (your files will be saved in the Windows.old folder)

Windows 7

> Programs

> Windows settings

> User accounts and files

Windows Vista

> Windows settings

> User accounts and files

Windows XP

> User accounts and files


Warning

If you create installation media, start your PC from the media, and then install Windows 8 Release Preview, you won't be able to keep your files, programs, or settings. To keep files, programs, or settings you need to install Windows 8 Release Preview by starting your installation from within Windows."

[KimJongLulz]

So I got daemon tools to work.

If I click "choose what to save", Nothing is a clean wipe and install of win8 right? Is that possible with an ISO reader or does that require burning onto a CD?

[KimJongLulz]

I don't know I should just not look back and replace vista all together with win8, thing is im doing the iso reader method of using like DT because I don't have a blank DVD to burn to.


I don't know, I know that Metro is stupid but you can just switch to a normal windows desktop...there is really limited drivers for my card...basically one.

Should I just go get a blank DVD sometime today, come back and burn the ISO onto the DVD or just....keep vista for as long as possible and then drop it when 8 comes out.

[Mutant]

If Vista is working for you then no need for you to change, maybe wait till you change your cpu/motherboard.


I have not tried to install windows with daemon tools, but i gather it works, i am not sure you can fully format your disk like this though.

Win8 has its own desktop installation tool which I have used. also you could use a usb stick or go get a dvd like you said.

[KimJongLulz]

Vista has been a massive pain in the ass.

I am stuck on Service Pack 1 and can never get to SP2 (some games now and days require you atleast be on the latest service packs)

To be honest I am kind of trying to figure out what to do, if I want to get the CPU upgraded and then the graphics card THEN get windows 7 or just upgrade now and switch out vista for 8 when it's release.

Its a risk I guess, 7 is considered the great microsoft OS and 8 is the new kid of the block with people already bashing it (I.E. Gabe and Blizzard, which is funny because how can blizzard tell someone their stuff is shit after Diablo 3?)

MAYBE I NEED TO SLOW DOWN AND WAIT, Time will tell, im getting a mid life crisis at the age of 21 for piss sake.

[Goku]

I still the Win 8 hate as unneeded. I don't have the OS installed right now, but when I have used it from earlier this year on my laptop I don't have any complaints. The only part people are complaining about on the tech forums is OMG I HAVE NO START BUTTON!!!!!!!!!111. The OS is still based off Vista/7. Its not a huge departure like XP->Vista.

Are you a student right now? If so you can get Win 7 Pro 64-bit from M$ for $65 (http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msstore/en_US/cat/categoryID.37826100) or your school may have it for even cheaper. Gives you a key that you can install a new copy of Windows 7 on with a disk. Who knows how much longer this will be around come Win 8 is all.

[KimJongLulz]

I am not a college student but I am a student to some online courses to get me diploma.

I'm sure that doesn't count though..

[Goku]

Is it a .edu address?

[KimJongLulz]

Nope

Im trying to update on a small budget...thats where its tricky. I know there is plenty of hate for Win8 but I think its just people upset over the Metro UI (Which can be switched out to a standard desktop...) and this stupid Gabe and Blizzard bull shit which I find fun because Blizzard release that shit pile Diablo 3 and has the gall to fucking call someone's software "Bad"


SO its either...get windows 7 for 100 bucks and know I have a good OS thats been around the block...or get windows 8 for free now and then pay 40 in October, its new software and there arent many drivers for it and what do I do if the only Windows 8 drivers from Nvidia turn out to be like all the other 2012 drivers on my 9800gt (Crashes Nvddlmkm.sys and restores it...which then causes my EVGA to read as if the card is under load.) Plus I try to play youtube videos and get a green screen which crash the same .sys AND then plays the video.

Its interesting...

[KimJongLulz]

Ok well my mind is set....i'll most likely be playing PS2 on what I have currently until I get the parts if I get accept to beta or something, which would be nice. Maybe...hopefully...they'll optimize it alittle more and i'll be living alright on low/medium at 1680x1050.


I think im gonna get Windows 7 64bit some time. I checked my BIOS version its at 9.5 or whatever which seems to be ok for the Phenom II X4 945. 4gb of RAM is all I can use so...no complaint there. PSU is going strong, 750w after all. I guess the GTX 460 will be my choice, probably gonna compare some things together in hwcompare.com to see whats up.

By the way...quick question, im looking at Speccy and my motherboard is like 50-55c from time to time...should I be concerned? I never really wondered about mobo temps until Speccy.

[Goku]

What mobo temps?

[KimJongLulz]

Mine.

On speccy it says Motherboard: "MSI MS-7309 (CPU 1) 50c" goes up to like 55c from time to time, never seen it go past that. Maybe on rare occasions when im not looking maybe.

BASICALLY what are ok motherboard temperatures that Speccy reports.

[Rbstr]

It it's below 70 I wouldn't care too much unless you're seeing instability you can trace back to it.

[KimJongLulz]

Alright then.

Well good news the processor im looking at is on sale for like 79 bucks with coupon on Tiger Direct. After plenty of searching and asking I believe the Phenom II X4 945 will indeed work as someone did the same with v9.5 BIOS on their board...same as mine. SO one upgrade down, two to go.

I am still wondering about video card, is the GTX 460 a good choice or is there any other options..for less or so?

[KimJongLulz]

I just got my quad core in the mail, put it in and all that, set the cpu fan right etc etc.
I go to start up and it sounds like it starts up with the revving and all that butnothing comes up on the screen, it just sits there revving and fans spinning. it revs up....stops and does it again like restarting over and over
Is this not gonna work or what..i dont have the money to start throwing at part.
(typing from a laptop)

[Rbstr]

So everything went into the slots just fine and you've got the right Bios installed before hand, yeah?

Do you get any beeps? Does the motherboard have any kind of diagnostic LEDs? Dig out your mobo manual.

Try going though and unplugging and plugging back in all/most of the cables, especially the power supply stuff.

[KimJongLulz]

Hmm It seems to work now, I took it out and kinda blew into the slot and put it back in and all that.

Hmm was strange but it seems to be working.

[Duskguy]

the gtx 460SE is about spec equivalent to the new gtx 560 (not the ti version).
the gtx 480 is about equal to a new gtx 580 and much cheaper.

however being newer, i would assume that the specs dont need to be as high to get the same performance due to newer processing methods, etc.

i checked using http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=&card2=

i will be using a gtx 550 ti 1 gig. you can get them for about $120-$150 depending on the brand (nvidea, pny, galaxy, etc.). if you can afford it hoever, i would suggest going with a gtx 560 ti rather than a 550 ti if you dont go with the gtx 460/460se.

now the 550 ti will still run decent graphics with games like crysis 2 at reasonable framerates and if you arent looking for a graphic killer card, it might be what you are looking for. of course you would have to check into whether they will work/fit with your mother board and tower.

[KimJongLulz]

I use hwcompare.com

Pretty easy to see whats up with bars and stuff. Though it doesn't account for OCing.