Hacking-cheating in Game

[UnityVS]

Hey all,
I posted this on the official forums on my namd3 char, I'm a PS1 Vet, that played on Werner for six years since launch, so apologies if this breaks any forum rules, as these forums are appear more active.

I really have to take issue with the decision of letting Even Balance/Punkbuster near your software.

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield...mation_for_the/

The Pay to hack culture is growing the problem has infested and ruined many a game, theres a reply from a hack programmer who states theres 10 year old code inside Punkbuster? still think Punkbuster is well maintained?

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf...54625134907902/

In 10 months one Battlefield 3 Paid for hack supplier has just had 2 ban waves. Even Balance that operate Punkbuster track record appears publicly poor, they don't release ban figures. yet end users experience on a daily basis obvious hackers those that kill you from the other end of the map to those that use the software more subtly like map overlays and damage CoF/Mods, all it does is break down trust amongst the player base.

There massive holes in Direct X code that alllow overlays..thats Microsofts problem.. that ain't getting fixed anytime soon either.

Prepare yourselves with the reality that Punkbuster isn't the answer never was, never will be.

SoE the biggest threat to the success of Planetside 2 is the paid for hack sites, it will drive people away in droves, Ea/Dice/Activision are all to late to the game, there franchises are infested with the problem, don't let Planetside 2 suffer the same fate.



Goodluck SoE I wish you all the best success in tackling this problem.

[Braveliltoaster]

this is very true, I'm not very knowledgeable on anti-hacking software so what would be a better choice besides PB?

[NePaS]

Artificial Aiming already have access to the tech test,so they are already working on the cheats.

[dafuq]

Artificial Aiming already have access to the tech test,so they are already working on the cheats.

i really wonder how they get into EVERY GAMES BETA or even tech test

.. their admin cant be that lucky

[Braveliltoaster]

Artificial Aiming already have access to the tech test,so they are already working on the cheats.

that doesn't surprise me, and the fact that the games free to play its going to be a mess. SoE said they will have GM's looking for hackers, big deal they get banned and they start a new account its a never ending cycle and that is what pisses me off. If someone gets caught hacking they should be banned from the game permanently, Like a hardware ban!

[Gugabalog]

Don't a bunch of EULA's forbid modding? Is there a way to get hackers in legal trouble?

(Though it's probably near impossible to identify them)

[dafuq]

Don't a bunch of EULA's forbid modding? Is there a way to get hackers in legal trouble?

(Though it's probably near impossible to identify them)

well, they could sue them like blizzard did with the bot creators of honorbuddy or what the name was

[vVRedOctoberVv]

@Gug

Yeah, most forms of hacking are considered illegal nowadays. So is gun running, drug smuggling and lots of other stuff. You can see how well the legalities curtail them :P

[opticalshadow]

@Gug

Yeah, most forms of hacking are considered illegal nowadays. So is gun running, drug smuggling and lots of other stuff. You can see how well the legalities curtail them :P

thats the problem, its like trying to call the cops when someone threatens you. you can file some pretty papers and say thank you. but unless the guy is cought byt eh cops kicking your door in, theres to much BS between justice and error.

[SkilletSoup]

Just ban ban ban. Just permanent ban all the proven hackers. This is play for free, you didn't buy the game, SOE owes you nothing. Hire those server admins for 24/7 monitoring. Give them the tool to permenent ban. Non of this BF3 2 weeks later bs, ban them right there on the server. Lockout their account, if they want a hearing, get in line. SOE you can do this on a play for free game. SOE if you are wusses about this then you fail.

[NePaS]

i really wonder how they get into EVERY GAMES BETA or even tech test

.. their admin cant be that lucky

I seriously think that Helios(the head guy at AA) works for even balance and that is how they always get in the early tests.

[dafuq]

well, every ps2 player is a potential buyer. so they might be very careful who they ban and who not

[Braveliltoaster]

here is a list of anti-hacking systems out there:


DMW Anticheat
GameGuard
PunkBuster
VAC
ProtectEnviron
ShoxGuard
CleanDoD
XRay
xTrap
HackShield
Warden
BattlEye


They are all pretty bad and some are out dated, so take your pick.

[opticalshadow]

Just ban ban ban. Just permanent ban all the proven hackers. This is play for free, you didn't buy the game, SOE owes you nothing. Hire those server admins for 24/7 monitoring. Give them the tool to permenent ban. Non of this BF3 2 weeks later bs, ban them right there on the server. Lockout their account, if they want a hearing, get in line. SOE you can do this on a play for free game. SOE if you are wusses about this then you fail.

the problem is how to ban them perma,

accounts are free, and there are ways around IP bans.

[dafuq]

VAC2 is by far the worst :D

[Envenom]

I had never heard of these guys (Artificial Aiming) before this thread. Went to their website and checked their forums... Yep. There's a thread there discussing which faction they want to make the aimbot for. It sounds like it's already underway.

Fcking hell. The game isn't even in open beta yet and there's already aimbots being made.

SOE, I hope you have a game plan... :(

[UnityVS]

I personally would rely on a custom solution turning towards a product "Well known to these sites" its puts you as a devloper at a dis-advantage, the real problem is not those that mass murder people from sanctuary, there easy caught by admin for example its those with damage modifiers/aimbots and map hacks subtle enough to make the game easier for themselves.

But in recent years with the massive popularity of CoD and the Battlefield series, a cottage industry has grown for selling hacks online, and we are talking serious money here, $25 a month for the privilege to have access to hack for BF3 as an example.

EA has quite a different stance to Punkbuster as well, EA will stat reset someone they believe is hacking, while Punkbuster will Insta ban you from the game. These differing policies and in-consistence stances to cheaters/stat padders, it's at odds with the "we are tough with cheaters policy from EA/Dice"

So in the end the games community TRUST breaks down, and we end up with the detrimental cycle that will drive the community apart.

[SkilletSoup]

well, every ps2 player is a potential buyer. so they might be very careful who they ban and who not

I'm afraid "careful" is doomed for failure. Developers have to get tough and I think you can do that with a play for free title.

I'm a potential buyer but I won't if its hack city. I played over 400 hour of BF3 not including the beta. But the accross the map hackers drove me out. I'd hate to see PS2 end up that way.

[Braveliltoaster]

the problem is how to ban them perma,

accounts are free, and there are ways around IP bans.
Global GUID bans and Hardware bans

punkbuster has the right idea, to bad they suck :(

"PunkBuster incorporates a system called global banning. Either the GUID (generated from the CD key[citation needed]) or parts of the computer hardware are banned from PunkBuster enabled servers. Most cheats simply will get a detection, but cheats that interfere with PunkBuster's software could get a global GUID ban. This will disallow access to PunkBuster enabled servers for that particular game. However, GUID bans can be easily bypassed by obtaining a different GUID. Cheats which are even more interfering could end up getting the user banned from all PunkBuster enabled games by a hardware ban.

As of June 30, 2004, Even Balance has incorporated the usage of unique hardware identifiers to permanently ban players from all PunkBuster enabled servers who raise a violation that corresponds to hacking or interfering with PunkBuster's normal operation and therefore violating the EULA.

Even Balance uses multiple private one-way hashes[citation needed] so that no serial number information for individual computers can be determined by admins or anyone else who may try to obtain this information from a hardware GUID.

PunkBuster only gives a hardware ban if memory scans show that a cheat that is known to circumvent or disrupt PunkBuster's normal operation or its facilities is activated.

As with previous PunkBuster GUID global bans, the new hardware GUID bans are permanent and will not be lifted. Even Balance has not disclosed which hardware parts are used to ban players, but trial and error has shown[citation needed] that the hardware GUID is based on the serial numbers of all available hard drives but not the MAC addresses.

According to their EULA, Even Balance has the final say in matters of banning."

[dafuq]

just look at the features of the artificial aiming hacks...

PB screenshot cleaner.. and whatnot.. lol
i highly doubt PB will get anyones ass in PS2.. admins have to do it by themselves

[Braveliltoaster]

just look at the features of the artificial aiming hacks...

PB screenshot cleaner.. and whatnot.. lol
i highly doubt PB will get anyones ass in PS2.. admins have to do it by themselves

yeah, but the problem is unless that person is blatantly hacking it will be easy, however most hackers are subtle and that's the problem

[GLaDOS]

At least we'll have the satisfaction of, once figuring out who's one of those careful aimbot/other hackers, getting in a Liberator with a couple of friends and blowing them to s**t, over and over again. Also, someone's mentioned before that you could probably PM someone on the enemy team telling them who the hacker is, and if they have any honor, they will announce it to the whole faction and the teamkills will rain down. I really do hope people choose to do this, instead of being happy that their teammate's a hacker.

[UnityVS]

Hardware banning/Mac address isn't anything new.

I question the ability of Even Balance to manage it effectively for SoE, think Ea/Dice aren't that impressed by it, Activision moved to Valves Vac, and moved away from Punkbuster, yet again history dictates that relying on a 3rd parties to do it is not the answer even valves Vac is a little behind just have alook at there forums..

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1191

[SkilletSoup]

yeah, but the problem is unless that person is blatantly hacking it will be easy, however most hackers are subtle and that's the problem

Agreed the subtle one are far more difficult. But you have to start somewhere. Get the blatent ones and work your way up. If the admins get good monitoring / game data / stat tools they can put a real hurt on hackers. Do that plus team up with other developers and go after the hack sites. Didn't the music industry do this several years ago? It can be done. You just have to want to do it. Looking at you SOE.

[morf]

i really wonder how they get into EVERY GAMES BETA or even tech test

.. their admin cant be that lucky

A lot of the paid hack sites offer a bounty i.e. a year of free hacks in exchange for access to your beta account

[UnityVS]

Let me get in here before Hamma throws the door shut on this. I have heard they were using PB then I heard PB was contracting with them for integrating custom anti hack into the game. Not sure which is correct.

The latter

[SpcFarlen]

Most aimbots just act as if they are input devices (ie a mouse). There was a reddit article where a guy linked a video he made of an aimbot where it would snap to target, but you could adjust speed. Making it look, and from a pure data standpoint, just be a guy with really good aim using a mouse.

Long gone are the days of aimbots where all you had to do was look at them and youd obviously see them jumping from target to target in less than a second.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

This thread makes me a sad panda :(

[Braveliltoaster]

what if those people that develop hacks for money instead made anti hacking systems for even more money?

[Ivam Akorahil]

that doesn't surprise me, and the fact that the games free to play its going to be a mess. SoE said they will have GM's looking for hackers, big deal they get banned and they start a new account its a never ending cycle and that is what pisses me off. If someone gets caught hacking they should be banned from the game permanently, Like a hardware ban!

i personaly dont see why the meta data that you need to register for a new account like name, email adress, adress etc shouldnt be linkable between several accounts. its going to get tiresom once you have to open your 50th email account because the 49 before got meta banned due to beeing used on an account that cheated ? sounds like a nice idea to me, cheat and your actual real life data gets banned not only your account

[morf]

what if those people that develop hacks for money instead made anti hacking systems for even more money?

If all the hack developers quit, why would anyone need countermeasures?

[Radant-J]

Haven't seen Higby or anyone in SOE comment on this so far.
Pretty worrying.

[morf]

Haven't seen Higby or anyone in SOE comment on this so far.
Pretty worrying.

A long while ago in another thread an SOE poster (I forget which one) popped in and said something about how SOE has been dealing with cheaters for years *cough* and will be on top of it.

[Radant-J]

A long while ago in another thread an SOE poster (I forget which one) popped in and said something about how SOE has been dealing with cheaters for years *cough* and will be on top of it.
I'm starting to get an ulcer :(

[SpcFarlen]

what if those people that develop hacks for money instead made anti hacking systems for even more money?

Not everything is for the money.

[UnityVS]

A long while ago in another thread an SOE poster (I forget which one) popped in and said something about how SOE has been dealing with cheaters for years *cough* and will be on top of it.

The SOE reply doesn't exactly inspire me

D@@@@@d cheaters anyone?

[BlueSkies]

A long while ago in another thread an SOE poster (I forget which one) popped in and said something about how SOE has been dealing with cheaters for years *cough* and will be on top of it.

I really wish that inspired confidence... but after Planetside Reserves... oi

[bpostal]

I like the bit where you think this is a better forum but I also like the bit where everyone worries about hackers. It's simple if hackers and whatnot get in and ruin the game then the games fucked and we all try again in another 10 years.
Personally I'll wait until the game comes out to see what's what.
Will there be cheaters, script fuckers and auto aimers? Probably. Is anyone going to win some kind of round or is that going to keep them alive because of it? Nah.

[Braveliltoaster]

http://i47.tinypic.com/1zl3gpd.jpg

[sagolsun]

PB hardware bans have long been defeated. AA has done it, I'm not sure about other cheat vendors. Since the game is F2P there's no monetary barrier - just register another account.

If PS2 is going to have their own home-baked HWID system I can imagine it'll be broken in a matter of weeks, maybe days.

I anticipate that cheating in PS2 will be a major problem - with the growth of the cheating industry we're talking game-breaking serious.

However there's an upside - since banned cheaters don't buy new keys there's no monetary incentive to keep them around. This has been the case for EA - ban cheaters but keep the money for their keys.

Standard anti-cheat measures have proven to be ineffective and because of the nature of this game, they will destroy it. Public cheats aren't that much of a problem because the developer's motivation is easily broken by updating lists. Paid cheats are the problem and I hope SOE realizes this now. This battle will require new ways to combat cheating - throwing customer support resources at it is just alleviating the symptoms.

[Pepsi]

Not everything is for the money."For the lulz" :rolleyes:

[UnityVS]

@bpostal I said the forums were more active :)

"then the Games Fucked' your make my point if a little more directly than i did, what EA/Dice & Activision get away with in a game like CoD , you can go somewhere else, move server, rent your own server and moderate it yourself, the owness is on the customer to find a solution.

SoE are in a different situation, there's a persistent world (Which made PS1 great BTW) made with handful of servers serving different region's of the world. immediately a single player has a chance to affect the whole gaming community with his or hers actions if that involves cheating where can you go?

I'd like to think SoE will not screw up, hopefully my faith isn't missed placed :)

[capiqu]

I sometimes wonder if all or even most Planetside Players would know someone was hacking. So would a type of tutorial helping players to identify hacks, what to look for and what to report help players kind of police themselves? Don't know much about the subject but at least this would help bring down the number of false allegations allowing devs to better focus on the real hackers.

[UnityVS]

I sometimes wonder if all or even most Planetside Players would know someone was hacking. So would a type of tutorial helping players to identify hacks, what to look for and what to report help players kind of police themselves? Don't know much about the subject but at least this would help bring down the number of false allegations allowing devs to better focus on the real hackers.

Nope, impartiality from the mob??

[Renegadeknight]

What if they made the registration more strict. Like needing real information or something.

[capiqu]

What if they made the registration more strict. Like needing real information or something.

Do you mean something like texting a confirmation code to a cellphone for every new account?

[Renegadeknight]

Do you mean something like texting a confirmation number to a cellphone for every new account?

not a 100% sure what I mean. What I'm trying to get at is to link it to something in real life that would be hard to replace or fake. Perhaps using a real name and credit card to confirm it, or something. Not really sure what would be the best way to do it.

[james]

not a 100% sure what I mean. What I'm trying to get at is to link it to something in real life that would be hard to replace or fake. Perhaps using a real name and credit card to confirm it, or something. Not really sure what would be the best way to do it.
You can't, using a credit card would kill like 50 percent of the f2p audience.

[Renegadeknight]

You can't, using a credit card would kill like 50 percent of the f2p audience.yeah I know what you mean. That is why I said I'm not sure the best way to do it. My point is to connect it to real life to make it difficult to make infinite amount of accounts.

[Flaropri]

i really wonder how they get into EVERY GAMES BETA or even tech test

.. their admin cant be that lucky

You don't need to be invited to get software if you're willing to hack for it.



Anyway, I'm sure Punkbuster isn't the only thing they're doing to attempt to reduce hacking, and they'd be stupid to say what all else they would be using.

[Galzus]

I don't know why anti-cheat teams don't just plant a "mole" in cheating communities, download paid hacks, and make some easy blacklisting :|

[Pyreal]

Couldn't SOE set up a few smart guys to buy the hacks and figure out how they work and then plug the hole?

[Durandal]

Do you mean something like texting a confirmation code to a cellphone for every new account?

this, facebook already does this, you need a unique email and phone number per account, this way it is substantially harder to just make a new accnt after being banned

[Dubious]

phone number and/or credit card
atleast 1 of those should be required

every teenager got a mobile phone so it shouldnt be a problem..

[Flaropri]

Couldn't SOE set up a few smart guys to buy the hacks and figure out how they work and then plug the hole?

They could, and I'd be surprised if they didn't. However, it also depends on where the hole is, and how it can be plugged without otherwise effecting game-play (if possible) or creating a new hole(s).

Ultimately, you aren't going to stop people from hacking (either you are on the defensive, responding to specific threats as best you can, or you have terribly intrusive anti-cheating software that prevents legit people from playing like Brawl Busters and invades people's privacy and still on the defensive, trying to respond to new threats as they come). The important things are to make it difficult enough to be done so that it isn't overly prolific, and to completely ban-hammer people that cheat in the first place.


On of the good things about persistent accounts is that they encourage people to hang onto them, even if they don't pay for them, because they sink time into them. People who are willing to put that time into it are less likely to use cheats and risk losing it all. People who don't care and cheat anyway will get bored because there's no persistent progression and without persistence there is little this game offers that can't be had in other games or other forms of entertainment in general.


Then all you have to worry about is DDOS from disgruntled a-holes, and there's not that much that can be done other than having a good bandwidth and shiz (and criminal prosecution).

[Thoreaux]

phone number and/or credit card
atleast 1 of those should be required

every teenager got a mobile phone so it shouldnt be a problem..

I actually really like the phone idea. To make a new account, either:

A) Enter a CC number which is validated by SOE, but not charged.

-or-

B) Enter a mobile phone number, receive a code via text message, and use that to validate.


That way, the hassle of making a new account becomes prohibitive for cheaters, but not enough to turn too many people away.

[kaibutzu]

and even if u do hardware ban u can still spoof HW ids and most paid hacking sites do it for u now once u load the hack and dont start with ips or macaddress there just as easy to change to

[capiqu]

Thinking about what Renagade posted made me think about linking accounts to cell phone numbers. When u start a new account Soe will text you a confirmation code that you would have to enter to activate the account yes both Facebook and my bank use this method. If someone gets banned and start a new account then they would need a new phone number. This would make it more costly to them in time and or money hopefully discouraging most from getting banned in the first place.

[SkarBlade]

that doesn't surprise me, and the fact that the games free to play its going to be a mess. SoE said they will have GM's looking for hackers, big deal they get banned and they start a new account its a never ending cycle and that is what pisses me off. If someone gets caught hacking they should be banned from the game permanently, Like a hardware ban!

They can IP ban but they will just come back. Hackers are A-holes. Plain and simple.

Thinking about what Renagade posted made me think about linking accounts to cell phone numbers. When u start a new account Soe will text you a confirmation code that you would have to enter to activate the account yes both Facebook and my bank use this method. If someone gets banned and start a new account then they would need a new phone number. This would make it more costly to them in time and or money hopefully discouraging most from getting banned in the first place.

Sure if people want it through a text but I rather have it call the phone and give me a number so I can enter.

[Pyreal]

The phone linked acct seems like a pretty good idea. I doubt someone is going to go out and buy a tracfone so they can get a new acct activated.

They could, and I'd be surprised if they didn't. However, it also depends on where the hole is, and how it can be plugged without otherwise effecting game-play (if possible) or creating a new hole(s).


I see your point.

SOE could also simply figure out what vulnerability the hack is exploiting in order to find the users of that hack in order to cull them. They wouldn't even have to close the vulnerability, just monitor it.

[xSquirtle]

The idea of requiring a text message is smart. Buying new phones is highly costly and would absolutely discourage mass hacking. Plus nearly everyone in the world has some form of cell phone with text messaging capabilities, so this would not be nearly a huge issue of discouraging players.

If anything advertising a game that's F2P, with anti-cheat, and a solid base for preventing mass hacking for new accounts; could drive sales WAY up. People like the idea of having a semi-hacker free game.


SOE could also simply figure out what vulnerability the hack is exploiting in order to find the users of that hack in order to cull them. They wouldn't even have to close the vulnerability, just monitor it.

Because no one has ever thought of that :rolleyes:.

Moderating a function does nothing if the programmer has modified the program to prevent their analysis capabilities.

[Tatwi]

Forcing the use of the authenticator if people want to play on some servers would help a bit. They cost $10 and you have to wait for them in the mail. I have one.

[Dubious]

There will be an free app authenticator so thats not a solution at all

[Flaropri]

I think you guys are overly worried about something that likely won't be much of a problem in the first place, honestly. Aside from hacking not being THAT prevalent, there are active mods to deal with/investigate players that cheat, 3rd party software to raise the barrier so it's not too easy (thus completely overwhelming the staff and such), and looking to resolve the holes where they can regardless as they go. And of course people not wanting to lose persistent characters.

Someone talked earlier about a group already working on a hack... and that is troublesome, but it doesn't mean that hack will still work after a patch or two into beta and then they start over again.

Certainly, if it proves to be a problem, put in some additional measures like tying accounts to a phone number via texting or something (I dislike this still, but it's better than some other alternatives), but I doubt it will actually be necessary at this point.

[DownloadFailed]

Well what do other MMOs do to prevent hacking? What does World of Warcraft do? In the little time I admittedly spent in WoW, I never once saw a hacker. Plenty of assholes and bots, sure, but no hackers. Is it because it's subscription based? If they're already paying for the game and the hacks they're using make their characters advance in level quickly, getting banned on WoW is no more a set back than getting banned on PS2. They would just start up another subscription. Didn't PS1 have a hacker influx after some update or something? Subscriptions are surely a deterrent but it won't stop everyone.

[Flaropri]

I think part of it is that hacking (for whatever reason) is generally more popular in FPS than RPGs, that said, there were reports of hacking, and certainly peoples ACCOUNTS were hacked plenty, if not necessarily many game mechanics. These days there are also private servers (pirated/emulated) so that may bleed off some of the hacking talent and drive as well.


I think GMs and active moderators do a lot to help though. Plus, I recall TB and I think Clegg or Higby talking about how they have behavioral checks for other SOE games. They were mostly talking about dealing with Boosting (a hack-free way of boosting stats/resources/xp in a less than intended fashion) but I could see it applying to some software cheats as well, for example, if someone has a much higher than average accuracy (especially if they previously had lower accuracy) they might look at them closer to try and see if they are cheating or not.

[Dubious]

WoW have hackers too and they get banned, but unlike Planetside, their hacking isnt gamebreaking

ppl will flee the game if nothing gets done with hackers on the spot in PS
in WoW they can cheat for weeks and you, the player, wont even notice them
that goes for most RPGs

[Reizod]

Forcing the use of the authenticator if people want to play on some servers would help a bit. They cost $10 and you have to wait for them in the mail. I have one.

I like this idea very much. I too have one and think at least require people to verify something that is tied to them one way or another.

Or at least make the process of creating an PS2 account a multi step process that goes through various verification hoops.

[noodz]

Well what do other MMOs do to prevent hacking? What does World of Warcraft do? In the little time I admittedly spent in WoW, I never once saw a hacker. Plenty of assholes and bots, sure, but no hackers.


Botting in wow is basically hacking. Although games like wow hacks aren't as game changing as one hacker just can't go round insta headshotting everyone cause the game is not designed like that.
I think SOE need some sort of admin monitoring system, where devs/admins spectate players who are either : reported, or getting ridiculously high k/d etc. On top of the Anti cheat software of course.

[capiqu]

Don't know if people should be forced to buy authenticators . Many people will not afford or be willing to pay for them and what Soe is trying to do is to get as many people to play the game as possible. That would drive many away. Until something new is thought of using a device that 95% of the people have( cell phone number) is probably the best.

[Mystwalker]

since the big hack of sony knocking them offline for what was it a month?
they have said they take a very dim vew of hacking and punkbuster was a tool in the toolbox and wasn't gonna be the only thing they had to encourage fair play
no telling what forgelight is tracking and blocking it has all ready been said you can't speed up bullet time or damage the coding won't let it happen as for aim botting im sure they will be tracking it as well
and this is where community comes in,if someones hacking and you see a ton of kill spam and they are standing in front of you in a spawn room.... kill them
friendly fire is ON you have the power to help stop a hacker by commincating and TK'ing them till they log
don't put this in SOE'S hands when we have the power and ability to police our own empires
word of mouth counts and not being afraid to take a lil grief for killing a hacker is a great thing for us all

[Nimx]

About requiring phone # to set up an account wont be effective to counter cheaters. I've worked for 2 cell companies, you can easily change your #. If you call a few times to get different reps and make up a good reason you can get them do it for free.

[Ivam Akorahil]

that doesn't surprise me, and the fact that the games free to play its going to be a mess. SoE said they will have GM's looking for hackers, big deal they get banned and they start a new account its a never ending cycle and that is what pisses me off. If someone gets caught hacking they should be banned from the game permanently, Like a hardware ban!

how about you gotta register and they send the "activation" code per ordinary mail ?

its certainly hard to get unlimited adresses.

Not to mention the big difference between ps2 and bf3 is that ALL servers you can play on are servers from the devs, which are monitored and also record stats and throw out alarms if abnormalities come up. i personaly think if someone would use aimbotting, it would take mere seconds untill the programms throws off an alarm and only another few seconds untill one of the gamemasters has an eye on it.

[Radant-J]

Those who want to dismiss the seriousness of hackers in Planetside probably haven't witnessed the worst moments in the game's history, where BFRs would snipe people from the flight ceiling, and hours of /reports would do nothing...

To those who were discussing the low number of hackers in WoW, Blizzard uses an in-house program called Warden, as well as a huge staff of CSRs.

In PS1, we had one CSR when we were truly lucky.
RIP DanB

Neither a CSR team, nor Punkbuster will be enough I'm afraid. PB is a joke these days.

[Otleaz]

There is no reason to go about doing weird stuff to prevent hackers. No matter what you do, hackers will be there. Competition and skill will be at most a blissful illusion for the ignorant. The only people who I will compliment or actively compare myself to will be people I have talked to and have known for years. Everyone else is unconditionally a hacker.

Stats in this game will be about as valuable as the floaters you find in public restrooms. This isn't a fault with the game at all, it is actually the same for every single shooter you have ever played. There are a LOT of hackers, you just can't tell.

[KnifeGun]

There is no reason to go about doing weird stuff to prevent hackers. No matter what you do, hackers will be there. Competition and skill will be at most a blissful illusion for the ignorant. The only people who I will compliment or actively compare myself to will be people I have talked to and have known for years. Everyone else is unconditionally a hacker.

Stats in this game will be about as valuable as the floaters you find in public restrooms. This isn't a fault with the game at all, it is actually the same for every single shooter you have ever played. There are a LOT of hackers, you just can't tell.

Might as well give up now then right? Doing "weird stuff" might just help prevent many people from even going down that route. The hardcore hackers will probably find a way around what ever is put in front of them but wouldn't you like to see them at least try something to keep that hardcore crew to a minimum?

[Gonefshn]

I'm ready to shoot all aimbotters in the head, bring it on

[Nemeses]

Hey all,
I posted this on the official forums on my namd3 char, I'm a PS1 Vet, that played on Werner for six years since launch, so apologies if this breaks any forum rules, as these forums are appear more active.

I really have to take issue with the decision of letting Even Balance/Punkbuster near your software.

http://www.reddit.com/r/battlefield...mation_for_the/

The Pay to hack culture is growing the problem has infested and ruined many a game, theres a reply from a hack programmer who states theres 10 year old code inside Punkbuster? still think Punkbuster is well maintained?

http://battlelog.battlefield.com/bf...54625134907902/

In 10 months one Battlefield 3 Paid for hack supplier has just had 2 ban waves. Even Balance that operate Punkbuster track record appears publicly poor, they don't release ban figures. yet end users experience on a daily basis obvious hackers those that kill you from the other end of the map to those that use the software more subtly like map overlays and damage CoF/Mods, all it does is break down trust amongst the player base.

There massive holes in Direct X code that alllow overlays..thats Microsofts problem.. that ain't getting fixed anytime soon either.

Prepare yourselves with the reality that Punkbuster isn't the answer never was, never will be.

SoE the biggest threat to the success of Planetside 2 is the paid for hack sites, it will drive people away in droves, Ea/Dice/Activision are all to late to the game, there franchises are infested with the problem, don't let Planetside 2 suffer the same fate.



Goodluck SoE I wish you all the best success in tackling this problem.

got to love people who whine and bitch about a problem, but offer no better solution, if you cant add something shut the f up.

Create a better system than PB ..o no you cant but hey you sure as hell can whine about it.

Id rather have PB than nothing.... any chance your other name is goku?

[Carnage]

got to love people who whine and bitch about a problem, but offer no better solution, if you cant add something shut the f up.

Create a better system than PB ..o no you cant but hey you sure as hell can whine about it.

Id rather have PB than nothing.... any chance your other name is goku?

It sounds more more like he's airing a concern hoping to be reassured, as opposed to actually whining, ironically you whining about his post is what is unhelpful here, got to love people who whine and bitch about a thread, but offer no actual input, if you cant add something shut the f up.

[FastAndFree]

At least we'll have the satisfaction of, once figuring out who's one of those careful aimbot/other hackers, getting in a Liberator with a couple of friends and blowing them to s**t, over and over again. Also, someone's mentioned before that you could probably PM someone on the enemy team telling them who the hacker is, and if they have any honor, they will announce it to the whole faction and the teamkills will rain down. I really do hope people choose to do this, instead of being happy that their teammate's a hacker.

Trial by enemy tell?

[GisTheGit]

We will always have cheats/hackers & the AC just isn't good enough as we all know and seen, but it is the extent of hacking that will determinate how successful this game will be other wise people will simply move on to the next game . So it should be one of SOE main priorities or their investment will fail .

[Shogun]

We will always have cheats/hackers & the AC just isn't good enough as we all know and seen, but it is the extent of hacking that will determinate how successful this game will be other wise people will simply move on to the next game . So it should be one of SOE main priorities or their investment will fail .

it is one of their main priorities!
this has been stated several times by several devs.

also it has been stated that punkbuster is just ONE in a big set of tools they want to use against hackers.

they didn´t specify what else they have up their sleeves and don´t ask them to reveal any additional details because the enemy is listening! every detail the hackers learn about the defence will help them in breaking it.

just keep an eye open for hackers and cheaters and pay2hacks. and report everything to soe!
hopefully they can at least sue the providers of these hacks or reverse-engineer the hacks to close the holes.

i would like the approach to fool cheaters ;)
if a cheater is 100% detectet, his damage-output should scale down without notice and he should get a cheater tag on his back or over his toon, for everybody to enjoy TKing him without getting griefpoints.
so they don´t have any fun in the game any more.

[CollinBRTD]

I think we should go over to the hackers and blame them. Normaly the Companys don´t point out the hackers. That should change. In PS1 I know very old chars that are hackers. Why not point out what they are when they get caught. I think we have a couple of different hackers out there.

1. The Wannabe
Wants to improve his skill by hacking
(Bad Player stays normaly bad even with hacking)
2. The Pro
Already a good player and wants to cheat himselve to the top
(the Worst one)
3. The troll
Wants to troll the game and just ruin the game
(Gets normaly regoniced fast)

I think to get rid of the PRO-Hacker just do what microsoft did. Delete his stats and write big and fat hacker on it. I think thats the worst you can do to such people because his "legend!" gets destroyed. I cant think of one big Outfit which is still playing with him after that.

The Big Outfits need to do a gentlemen agreement on a non cheating act. DON´T play with caught cheaters!!!!!!

[Carnage]

PS2 is gearing to be a big game, and they need to keep it big, I mean they have put 100's of 1000's of $$$ in to this, if not a Mil (idk how much it is to make a game like this) so you can bet your ass they will not want to lose customers due to bastard hax players.
I'm betting they have dedicated a team to formulate a way to make the game difficult to hack, It likely was taken into account as they made the engine (much better then incorporated 3rd party software). I have faith that SOE has a secret strategy to combat hackers. but I guess time will tell.

[Gugabalog]

I think we should go over to the hackers and blame them. Normaly the Companys don´t point out the hackers. That should change. In PS1 I know very old chars that are hackers. Why not point out what they are when they get caught. I think we have a couple of different hackers out there.

1. The Wannabe
Wants to improve his skill by hacking
(Bad Player stays normaly bad even with hacking)
2. The Pro
Already a good player and wants to cheat himselve to the top
(the Worst one)
3. The troll
Wants to troll the game and just ruin the game
(Gets normaly regoniced fast)

I think to get rid of the PRO-Hacker just do what microsoft did. Delete his stats and write big and fat hacker on it. I think thats the worst you can do to such people because his "legend!" gets destroyed. I cant think of one big Outfit which is still playing with him after that.

The Big Outfits need to do a gentlemen agreement on a non cheating act. DON´T play with caught cheaters!!!!!!

^ This.
Ostracize cheaters. Encourage tk-ing cheaters. Maybe they could be labelled "Traitors" for immersion purposes.

[IgloGlass]

^ This.
Ostracize cheaters. Encourage tk-ing cheaters. Maybe they could be labelled "Traitors" for immersion purposes.

Even better, make it so that when you team-kill these people it doesn't give you any grief-points :lol:

[LastDawn]

PS2 is gearing to be a big game, and they need to keep it big, I mean they have put 100's of 1000's of $$$ in to this, if not a Mil (idk how much it is to make a game like this)
Im quite sure a lot more money then one million has been spent on developing Planetside 2. I think I heard somewhere that the CGI Trailer alone is worth close to a million. But a lot of money doesn't guarantee a hacker free game, just look at BF3..
And in PS2 preventing hacking is even more important, to make the money invested back people need to keep playing and paying.

[The Degenatron]

What I've been wondering for the last ten years is when are the major publishers of video games are going to come together, form a legal coalition, and begin dragging these cheating assholes to court?

I know Sony, Valve, EA, Ubisoft, Vevindi, Sega, Nentindo, etc. have enough money and large enough legal teams to put these turds who are creating and selling hacks through the fucking ringer. Let one of these hackers go through a 5 year court battle and get a nice big seven digit settlement hung around their neck and see how much they feel like making cheats after that.

The publishers have a very strong legal leg to stand on: Game makers don't just sell software, they sell an experience to the user.. That experience is damaged by the cheat makers. Making and selling a product designed to damage someone else's product sounds like a slam-dunk to me.

Sony needs to let their legal pitbulls of their chain for once.

[Gugabalog]

^ Ya, and not sick it on community promoting modders liek so many other devs groups.

[Shogun]

What I've been wondering for the last ten years is when are the major publishers of video games are going to come together, form a legal coalition, and begin dragging these cheating assholes to court?

I know Sony, Valve, EA, Ubisoft, Vevindi, Sega, Nentindo, etc. have enough money and large enough legal teams to put these turds who are creating and selling hacks through the fucking ringer. Let one of these hackers go through a 5 year court battle and get a nice big seven digit settlement hung around their neck and see how much they feel like making cheats after that.

The publishers have a very strong legal leg to stand on: Game makers don't just sell software, they sell an experience to the user.. That experience is damaged by the cheat makers. Making and selling a product designed to damage someone else's product sounds like a slam-dunk to me.

Sony needs to let their legal pitbulls of their chain for once.

yep. they managed to do the exact same thing to fight against pirated copys of their games. they sent letters to everybody who bought the jailbreak usb stick for the playstation 3. they didn´t sue everybody at once, but they threatened to do so if someone would use this stick and got caught.

but i guess every gaming company is afraid of hackers after the damn last year. and uniting against hackers and cheaters might make them unite as well and new big scale attacks would be the result.

you know, some kiddys with the skills to destroy the fun in a game might also have the skills to destroy the whole game network again.

[basti]

The Fault for BF3s cheating problem is not Even Balance, its Dice, as they refuse to actually make actual use of Punkbuster.

No AC software is capable of dealing with stuff on its own. It needs the devs to maintain it, the devs of the game.

[dafuq]

The Fault for BF3s cheating problem is not Even Balance, its Dice, as they refuse to actually make actual use of Punkbuster.

No AC software is capable of dealing with stuff on its own. It needs the devs to maintain it, the devs of the game.

the biggest problem is that they are STUPID

just look at the leaderboards, place 1-100 are 100% hackers :D rank 100 with 1 hour of played time and 99% accuracy and other shit.. lol.. none of them is banned

[Fenrod]

There is only a few hackers, and they do no harm, you guys are bitching way too much.

[Shogun]

There is only a few hackers, and they do no harm, you guys are bitching way too much.

did you play planetside during the "reserves" program?

it was abolutely horrible! moving and shooting invincible corpses everywhere!
flying soldiers and unlimited darkvision and other stupid stuff.
and those cheaters really did harm! the paying population of the game dropped massively.

[CollinBRTD]

There is only a few hackers, and they do no harm, you guys are bitching way too much.

It ruins the experience. I play for fun and competition. And if someone is cheating it ruins MY GAMEPLAYEXPERIENCE what i pay for.

Trust me Better Red Than Dead has 0 tolerance against cheaters. We even marked them when we found out someone was radarhacking in OUR Outfit.

[james]

There is only a few hackers, and they do no harm, you guys are bitching way too much.

Clearly you haven't played many f2p games. So many are ruined by hackers. Many get to the point where they are in every game you play. Heck bf3 has been partly ruined by hackers.

IN all honestly people will cheat, its just doing enough, so enough people don't do it

[Heaven]

Sorry in advanced if I sound noob-ish around this topic as im not really clued up to anti-hacking programs or how they work, I can see that hacking in this game could potentially be the destroyer of the game as once your banned you can create another account to hack the game again creating a never ending vicious cycle.

I have played alot of WoW in my time and rarely see anyone cheating/hacking on this game, I know this game is pay to play and PS2 is FREE, but what does this game use to stop hacking and cheating? Maybe SoE could take a leaf out of their book...

[RJTravis]

Best way to stop hacking is to give away the guys house address to the public he wouldnt have a PC for long someone would go to his house kick his ass & break his computer.

this would stop all hacking xD

[Qwertyfox]

Imo hacking won't be solved as long as [part of] the game state is shared with the client. Only when it is no longer shared can hacking be removed completely. Video streaming services could prove to become the ultimate anti cheat, as they only send a stream of images and sound and no actual game data.

Video streaming services will grow rapidly the next few years, and probably be standard within 5-10 years.

[RJTravis]

Imo hacking won't be solved as long as [part of] the game state is shared with the client. Only when it is no longer shared can hacking be removed completely. Video streaming services could prove to become the ultimate anti cheat, as they only send a stream of images and sound and no actual game data.

Video streaming services will grow rapidly the next few years, and probably be standard within 5-10 years.

sadly no they have wanted & tried for years same old problem.

It kills computer & console sells.

why upgrade when your only getting image & sound data.

[PlaceboCyanide]

The best idea thus far is to link the online account to some real world data to prevent rampant account creating for the purpose of circumnavigating any bans. IP addresses, MAC addresses, phone numbers, and credit cards have all been mentioned.

The problem with IP addresses is the collateral damage caused because of dynamic IP addresses. for linked Phone numbers, I guess people could bypass that by buying disposable phones- but it would be better than nothing. Using credit cards, I imagine, would be the most effective way. The problem is that it would scare away so many potential players of the game that it won't ever happen.

Whatever SOE decides, what must not happen is witch hunts. Whenever the community decides it is solely up to them, it gets ugly. There won't be the option to kick/ban people from a server like other games, but others in this thread have suggested to grief a suspected cheater until they give up...no, just no. With the exception of massively obvious cheats like killing people with medpacks, there is no way to be 100% certain without administrative tools. The people taking the matter into their own hands will only succeed in griefing innocent players, and getting themselves reported and banned.

[Heaven]

Linking an account to a phone number seems a pretty good idea, FB does this also, and soe could put this in to play as it will stop a lot of hacking imo

[opticalshadow]

maybe if you had to lets say register your video card S/N though a program SOE makes, which binds your account. you get banned, and that S/N is banned. not many people would drop money for a new peice of exspencive hardware...

[Bocheezu]

I have played alot of WoW in my time and rarely see anyone cheating/hacking on this game, I know this game is pay to play and PS2 is FREE, but what does this game use to stop hacking and cheating? Maybe SoE could take a leaf out of their book...

Like others have said, people hack in that game, it's just not as noticable because it's an RPG. The two big noticable hacks I can think of for FPS, aimbots and wallhacks, really have no place in WoW and wouldn't give you much of an advantage. In FPS, they flat-out break the game.

The only big thing I remember from WoW were the anti-AFK bots for battlegrounds, which was just a macro that clicked on the screen every couple minutes to prevent you from going AFK. It also re-queued you for another battleground after you left the previous one. That got rooted out fairly decently when they allowed other players to tag people as AFK, and if you didn't untag yourself by moving, you would get booted from the battleground. The self-policing by the community worked well in that case because it was very obvious when people were macroing (they weren't moving) and the macroing was detrimental to gameplay (your side is weaker when people AFK) so other players cared. Plus, they tempbanned a metric shit-ton of people for macroing and took their gear away. Half my guild got three days for that one. I have no idea what the status of battlegrounds is like today; this was back in the TBC days around 2006ish.

[Fenrod]

By the way, it seems like the dev team is avoiding the subject...

:(

[dafuq]

By the way, it seems like the dev team is avoiding the subject...

:(

because they already know that they cant do anything about hackers

[The Degenatron]

By the way, it seems like the dev team is avoiding the subject...

:(

That's a smart move. The last thing you want to do in a war is tell the enemy how you intend to fight them.

Also, if I were SOE, I'd be banning on a whole host of "hard-coded" information: MAC Address, CPU ID, MS SID, ect. In fact, the game could build a hash table of a persons software and use that to verify them and only SOE would know which applications were in the hash table.

[Pepsi]

By the way, it seems like the dev team is avoiding the subject...

:(I don't think we should expect any miracles from SOE. The game is going to get hacked, there is no stopping that. People on those forums are even talking about "mass murder" hacks (killing everyone on the continent). The best SOE and us can do is:

1) Discourage the development of hacks in the first place (not really sure how to do this)
2) Be responsive when someone goes crazy with the hacks.
3) Have enough flexibility to nullify the chaos the hacker has caused. For example of a worse case scenario, a hacker uses the mass murder button to kill all of the TR and VS. When the GM bans that person, all deaths they have caused have been wiped from stats records and the cost of any vehicle destroyed has been refunded to the victim's resource pool.

The key isn't about permanently banning people like the above poster said, it's about removing the will and enjoyment out of using the hacks.

[Tsunami]

well, they could sue them like blizzard did with the bot creators of honorbuddy or what the name was

it was mmoglider

[Wandering Mania]

that doesn't surprise me, and the fact that the games free to play its going to be a mess. SoE said they will have GM's looking for hackers, big deal they get banned and they start a new account its a never ending cycle and that is what pisses me off. If someone gets caught hacking they should be banned from the game permanently, Like a hardware ban!

There seveal diffrent ways to permantly block a user.
1. IP Bans if SOE did that thay can block them from makeing a new account on the sight also. But thay olny work untill the IP cycles or gets changed.

2. Hardware Bans true but thay are a bit more diffacult to pull off, and thay olny work untill new hardware is purched and installed on the hackers system.
and
3. Serial Key Bans A.K.A. Software bans that can ban hackers baced on a certin system keys but those are also a bit more diffacult to pull off, And these olny work untill a new OS is installed

[Rivenshield]

There seveal diffrent ways to permantly block a user.
1. IP Bans if SOE did that thay can block them from makeing a new account on the sight also. But thay olny work untill the IP cycles or gets changed.

2. Hardware Bans true but thay are a bit more diffacult to pull off, and thay olny work untill new hardware is purched and installed on the hackers system.
and
3. Serial Key Bans A.K.A. Software bans that can ban hackers baced on a certin system keys but those are also a bit more diffacult to pull off, And these olny work untill a new OS is installed

The first can be gone around by unplugging your modem overnight, the second by installing a new $5 network card, and the last by reinstalling your OS. And the win-at-all-costs snotnose sociopath crowd will happily do any or all of these on a regular basis to get their daily superiority fix.

Having admins actively looking for hackers in-game is the best way to harden the target I can think of. But how do we prevent the same fuckers from coming back every day? There's only one way....

*CHARGE FOR THE CLIENT*

If people will pay $40 to play BF3 on somebody's shitty box in their mother's garage, they will pay the same to play on SOE's uber servers with 2000 combatants.

It's the only way.

[Tsunami]

Sorry in advanced if I sound noob-ish around this topic as im not really clued up to anti-hacking programs or how they work, I can see that hacking in this game could potentially be the destroyer of the game as once your banned you can create another account to hack the game again creating a never ending vicious cycle.

I have played alot of WoW in my time and rarely see anyone cheating/hacking on this game, I know this game is pay to play and PS2 is FREE, but what does this game use to stop hacking and cheating? Maybe SoE could take a leaf out of their book...

They use this thing called Warden. They do a scan every couple of days and hacks in that game are just to boost that characters economic state by botting and killing stuff. MMOGlider used to be a bot program which would inject into the game before warden would start. Although, Warden would do periodic scans(I think with both small and massive ones), cause MMOGlider did get sent to court.

Also I think it had to do with the way they made the game I'm pretty sure they made it so it was all serverside. I remember something where they couldn't upgrade the graphics/audio cause it was like serverside and the only way to upgrade those was through a whole new expansion. Notice the graphic and sound change from BC to WotLK?

[sagolsun]

Unfortunately there's little SOE can do to combat cheating. And with how the scene transformed into an industry the recent years this can potentially become a game-killer. A cheater won't just ruin a round, he will ruin days of playing by individual players and the persistent world.

I see only a few viable options:

1) Super-harsh user authentication:
ID scan, cellphone number and token bank account transfer verification to positively identify users. Initial registration is open, "verified" accounts give more privileges. Non-verified accounts are all assumed to be cheaters and griefers.

2) Lawyers, police, SWAT teams and oh my
Sony is good with waging legal battles. There's no technical reason why child porn websites can't operate in the open and cheating sites can. The US has shown it will demand rendition of non-US citizens for as little as setting up sites with links to video sharing sites that host infringing content.

I'm talking about http://tvshack.net/ and the rendition of a UK citizen because people from the US were using those links, hence US corporations were losing money.

SOE should step up the game and let their legalmonkeys and lobbyists loose on this. Unlike EA and BF3 there's actual sense to go down this warpath.

3) Unconventional warfare
Hire blackhats to disrupt cheating operations, reveal personal data of users, setup a bestiality porn repository on the cheat developer's servers/PCs (assuming it's illegal in their country/state), bundle some nasty al-quaeda recruitment spambot with free cheats, conduct psyops and scare tactics. Destroy the real-life dayjobs and reputation of cheat developers.

^ For the record all of those have been used by corporations or nation states. I'm not inventing anything new here.

[Hydra]

3) Unconventional warfare
Hire blackhats to disrupt cheating operations, reveal personal data of users, setup a bestiality porn repository on the cheat developer's servers/PCs (assuming it's illegal in their country/state), bundle some nasty al-quaeda recruitment spambot with free cheats, conduct psyops and scare tactics. Destroy the real-life dayjobs and reputation of cheat developers.

^ For the record all of those have been used by corporations or nation states. I'm not inventing anything new here.

:jawdrop:

[Piper]

Lot of talk in this thread so far about what Sony (or insert company) can do about hacking and little to none about what we can do about it?

I'd like to suggest that when the hacking took off in PS1 it was in part because SoE seemed to be doing squat about it, which only encouraged it.....however...

...there were plenty of outfits that did nothing about their own outfit mates when they were caught or outed for hacking. They didn't boot said haxors from their outfit lists, they supported them.

I have no idea what they'll do about it, especially given its F2P (another tick in the huge Sub'>>>>MT box for me anyway), but I know what we could try and do about it as a community....out 'em in our outfits and don't defend 'em when it happens.

Sure you might just get a lot of outfitless hackers but we'd at least be doing our part too.

[Helwyr]

Cheaters are the bane of online games, it doesn't take a huge number of them to ruin a game. I'd happily pay a subscription to be on a server largely free of this problem.

I think developers should secretly put out their own hacks and have the software loaded with malware from hell. Maybe, some already do, not like it's something they would acknowledge.

[SkarBlade]

Hackers will always be challenge, no matter how much we try to stop it and fix it. Hackers will always find a way to get back on.

[UnityVS]

Stats are key to catching out hackers/cheats

BTK= Bullets to kill
High ratios ie 400kills, 600bullets hit, using say a gun fast firing gun with a heavy recoil,as an example, is sign of both possible aimbot and damage mod, RivalXfactor from the BF3 community highlighted this in a youtube vid
BF3: How to catch hackers using a damage modifing hack and my personal story - YouTube

Server to check client suggestions
Bullets/ammo fired in certain time scale-- check-RoF check as an example.
Code parity checks on sensitive parts of code-check for values that would have been changed


Obvious suggestions I guess *shrug*

[Rockstone]

I'm talking about http://tvshack.net/ and the rendition of a UK citizen because people from the US were using those links, hence US corporations were losing money.

SOE should step up the game and let their legalmonkeys and lobbyists loose on this. Unlike EA and BF3 there's actual sense to go down this warpath.



No. The law shouldn't get involved. Last time Sony did something like that resulted in SOE's servers being shut down. Ban them by the IP level, and move on.

(although, the situations are different, I will admit)

[NePaS]

*CHARGE FOR THE CLIENT*

If people will pay $40 to play BF3 on somebody's shitty box in their mother's garage, they will pay the same to play on SOE's uber servers with 2000 combatants.

It's the only way.

Well seeing as you bring up BF3,you have just shot your own argument down in flames.The damm game is riddled with buggers.Also the fact that the gits at AA will give you a new key if you get caught using their hack

[fb III IX ca IV]

Phone number verification will not work as you can easily get a new number from Google Voice or the likes.

[sagolsun]

No. The law shouldn't get involved. Last time Sony did something like that resulted in SOE's servers being shut down. Ban them by the IP level, and move on.

(although, the situations are different, I will admit)

Could you please expand on that?

Lot of talk in this thread so far about what Sony (or insert company) can do about hacking and little to none about what we can do about it?


answer:
3) Unconventional warfare
Hire blackhats to disrupt cheating operations, reveal personal data of users, setup a bestiality porn repository on the cheat developer's servers/PCs (assuming it's illegal in their country/state), bundle some nasty al-quaeda recruitment spambot with free cheats, conduct psyops and scare tactics. Destroy the real-life dayjobs and reputation of cheat developers.

^ For the record all of those have been used by corporations or nation states. I'm not inventing anything new here.

It's surprising how cost-effective such a campaign is, really. Sony likes to pull stunts like those off. Hell, they could recruit community members with a particular dislike of cheats and get it done for half-free.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I'm for trolling the hacker sites. If they can do it to us, why can't we do it to them? They block our IP... Get another one. I guess they could block the whole nation block... But that's kinda gonna be bad for business :)

RAWR! Anti-cheats, ATTACK!

[Tzitzimitl]

I believe a possible solution could be an addition to the EULA that states "anyone agree to this is allowing SOE to display personal information publicly if they are caught hacking" (something along these lines).
While this could be scene as cruel, it would help to stem the tide a bit as some would not risk this happening. The only problem could be legal implications of doing such a thing; the abuse of it by people in charge to blackmail people

[GLaDOS]

I'm for trolling the hacker sites. If they can do it to us, why can't we do it to them? They block our IP... Get another one. I guess they could block the whole nation block... But that's kinda gonna be bad for business :)

RAWR! Anti-cheats, ATTACK!

Hell yeah! Can you post some of the urls so I can join?

Also, if it's possible, we should try to set fire to the hacker websites. We need to find a way.

[Ieyasu]

hacking problems are always going to be around as long as were playing on pc.

I wonder how feasible it would be to throw up a couple of servers in each region that required a paid sub to play on? Im sure there would still be hackers active on them, but I would be willing to wager there would be far fewer there than on the f2p servers.

[Rivenshield]

the fact that the gits at AA will give you a new key if you get caught using their hack

How in the flying mortal fuck can they afford that?

How the flying mortal fuck can they do this legally and publicly?

[kaibutzu]

most people forget that most hackers are 25-60 years old so even if u put paid subs or anything there will be hackers u guys have anyidea how much it costs just got a aimbot ? that wont get u instant ban

a good aimbot is 25-40 bucks a month

[kazaboo]

.
..
...
3) Unconventional warfare
Hire blackhats to disrupt cheating operations, reveal personal data of users, setup a bestiality porn repository on the cheat developer's servers/PCs (assuming it's illegal in their country/state), bundle some nasty al-quaeda recruitment spambot with free cheats, conduct psyops and scare tactics. Destroy the real-life dayjobs and reputation of cheat developers.

^ For the record all of those have been used by corporations or nation states. I'm not inventing anything new here.

+1 to that :D

[NePaS]

How in the flying mortal fuck can they afford that?

How the flying mortal fuck can they do this legally and publicly?

I do not know,maybe you should go ask them as to how they seem to have a 6 foot pile of DVD cases with keys.


Would love to know tbh,some sod is corrupt(probably a lot of sods tbh)and that is how they get the keys!

[iMarx]

An active community that truly knows the difference between a good player and a hacker and the ability to ghost players will be a good defense to hackers.

[opticalshadow]

the one big advantage i think we have with this is SOE needs this to make bank. this project cost them alot, and it bveing F2P means they cant recoup with inital sales (like EA does) so this game, atleast for awhile, will have to make bank, and for that, they will need to keep consumers happy.

im pretty sure, that for that reason, they will be extreamly diligent for atleast the first year in working against hackers. ps2 took alot of manhours, took alot of money, and it doesnt have the buffer of 50 bucks to buy in.

[PoisonTaco]

Admins with the ability to spectate. It doesn't matter what kind of automated anti-cheating software you use, nothing will be better than an admin.

[opticalshadow]

Admins with the ability to spectate. It doesn't matter what kind of automated anti-cheating software you use, nothing will be better than an admin.

true, but its alot of a job. Darkfall (atleast during the first few months) had a live admin team and they banned alot of gamers. but the problem became, trying to keep an eye on sevral thousand players at the same time, and some hacks so minute, that tehy gave a huge advantage but hardly and wake.]


but i agree, a dedicated, large, live admin team is teh best way to go.

[Daystar]

I was banned recently under the Hacking and Exploiting category. It seemed a bit excessive to be honest as it was a permanent hardware (MAC address by the looks of it) ban for using multiple accounts on different computers to gain experience from killing my other characters for certification points. No macro's, no third party programs, no mods.

I was unaware this was even an infraction-able offense, I thought I was just showing ingenuity, I usually have multiple accounts in online games under the pay to play model with no issue in order to reduce grind. I figured the free to play model would be no different.

But apparently I am a scumbag and John Smedley is going to hunt me and my family down and kill us. The station cash and founder package that I bought was obviously money well spent.

I was predominantly interested in seeing just how advantageous having a lot of certifications was in player competition, which I largely found to be not much. I found the largest advantage was from Station Cash itself to buy the more expensive cert weapons like Rocket Pods, Anti Infantry Cannons/Turrets and Anti-Vehicle/Aircraft lock on rock launchers. All of which had clearly ramped up cert prices to force players to buy them with real money to compete... and I am the scumbag? Neither offense really seems worthy of that title, but I feel mine was not as shady as that.

Okay, the game has to make money with micro transactions but they have adamantly touted the game is not pay to win, and you can argue that it is pay to save time but that is a lot of winning in the mean time for those that have station cash.

Not to say the game is not great, it is, a little rough around the edges right now and not to say I am even against the hacker hunt, it just seems they are being way too zealous on some fairly minor infractions for paying customers.

You can jump on me and say this was my fault, and the same thing to the next guy who gets hosed for a simple misunderstanding, but one day it could be you.

Back to Guild Wars 2 and Battlefield 3, I guess.

Sincerely,

Scumbag

[moosepoop]

bye, scumbag.

[IndiQa]

Speed hack is now running in PS2. Saw a player runnning at high speed past myself and several other players.

It WAS NOT connection releated. It was smooth and all the rest of the players were moving smoothly also. He just hit 60mphand was gone. Happened on Waterson. It was a TR player.

[DirtyBird]

I was banned recently under the Hacking and Exploiting category. It seemed a bit excessive to be honest as it was a permanent hardware (MAC address by the looks of it) ban for using multiple accounts on different computers to gain experience from killing my other characters for certification points. No macro's, no third party programs, no mods.

...

Is this something you did recently or did you do this from launch?
I'm under the impression that there was no one detecting this sort of thing during the first week of play, or any haxs for that matter.
I believe they have only been reactive to this and the various haxs after the first week and by then the horse had bolted.
I dont think they will/can do anything retrospectively.
Unless of course you did this during week one and had ceased after that.

[Daystar]

The ban happened on the 6th of December, the beginning of the scumbag hunt. I have similar assumptions to yours.

I had only been playing for a week and a half at that point and with the multiple accounts for approximately three days prior to the ban.

All water under the bridge.

[Sledgecrushr]

I saw a speed hacker during beta. Ive seen and killed two lag switchers this last week, which it was kinda fun killing the lag switchers it felt like I was doing a service for the community.

[Chaff]

SOme people seem to kick a kick out of being a piece of shit. That is aimed at the lag-switchers, speed-hacks, aimbot shitheads, and players that intentionally sabatoge the empire they are "pretending" to be loyal to.

It takes a lot of energy to be a pissant for several hours a night. I think the biggest cost these people will have to pay is via the Gods of good 'ol Kharma. Eventually, somewhere in life, they'll get theirs. IMHO, being a pissant is punishment in itself.

Doesn't matter if the pissant cares or not. We all know a pissant when we come across one in-game. They run the gammut......even if it's someone whose only crime is their unwillingness/inability to shut their damn piehole on ts.

Th guy that started this thread seemed to get an extra-harsh punishment. I am encouraged to learn that SOE is "lookimg" at play-style.