While we wait for CBT: Squad Composition

[Noctis]

So, everything in this topic, as every other one is just pure supposition, subject to changes, and to kill the time instead of making "I want to play" threads.

Stated this:

In order to achieve the most captures;

How would you organize a single squad or a single platoon of Infantry? Which classes? Any particular equipment? Tactics? Known certs to be used?

How would you organize a single squad or platoon of Ground Vehicles? Which vehicles? Tactics and such?

Same applies to Aircrafts, but Air support needs ground one to be useful in my opinion, but same questions for this department too!

Of course the game will be rounded around hundreds of players, and not single squads, I'll be myself in one of the many SGers ones, but let's say you are planning to lead a single squad or a platon, what would your setup be?

[Fenrod]

As for me, a squad should be built like this :

1 Heavy Assault
2 Light Assault
1 Medic
1 Engineer
1 Infiltrator, specialized in sniping

As for vehicle squads :

3 Flash
2 Prowler ( TR all the way :D )
2 Lightning at the front, along with the 3 Flash
1 Sunderer, protected by 2 Prowlers

[IgloGlass]

My 10 man squad, if I were to choose, would probably consist of the following (Not including MAX since we still don't know if it will be treated as a class or more like a vehicle. Heavy Assault could otherwise be swapped with MAX in certain scenarios):

Frontal Assault:

2 Heavy Assault
3 Light Assault
2 Medic
2 Engineer
1 Infiltrator (Could possible be swapped out for any of the other classes)

Base Capture:

3 Heavy Assault
2 Engineer
1 Light Assault
2 Medic
2 Infiltrator (They would scout and snipe/knife a few easy targets to clear the area for the main group beforehand)

Base Hold:

3 Engineer
3 Heavy Assault
3 Medic
1 Light Assault
Yeah I skipped the Infiltrator, don't feel like one would do much good in close-quarter indoors base fighting.

Ground Vehicle Squad (All purpose 10 vehicles):

2-3 Flash (Escort)
2-3 Lightning (Front cover)
2 Sunderer
Fill up the rest with Prowler/Vanguard/Magrider for POWAH.

In a straight line/convoy formation the order could be something along the lines of:

Prowler Flash Lightning
Sunderer Sunderer Prowler Flash
Prowler Flash Lightning

If that makes any sense at all :groovy:

Aerial Squad (10 vehicles):

I don't think fitting together like 3 Liberators, 2 Galaxy dropship/gunships and 5 Mosquitos would work that well, they probably function best on their own/with ground support. Or with maybe 3 Liberators and 7 Mosquitos.

However I do intend to grab all of my friends and perform 1: A blitz with like 10 Liberators and 2: An arrow formation of nothing but Mosquitos with AV/AI weaponry that sweeps down and destroys everything! :evil:

[Solidblock]

My 10 man squad, if I were to choose, would probably consist of the following (Not including MAX since we still don't know if it will be treated as a class or more like a vehicle. Heavy Assault could otherwise be swapped with MAX in certain scenarios):
:

Too long of a quote, but I agree. Of course it's all the commanders personal preferences and I did get that convoy system, it was quite nice and well thought out. A thing I would change however is that I think infiltrators COULD be incredibly useful in every single one of the roles you described. For basehold they could sit on a tower or at a vantage point that could cover one of the entrances to base providing recon and if needed, firepower. I hope that once I'm in this game I can do this role!

[Noctis]

As for me, a squad should be built like this :

1 Heavy Assault
2 Light Assault
1 Medic
1 Engineer
1 Infiltrator, specialized in sniping

As for vehicle squads :

3 Flash
2 Prowler ( TR all the way :D )
2 Lightning at the front, along with the 3 Flash
1 Sunderer, protected by 2 Prowlers

For capture:

About infantry squads I'd always want 2 medics, one engineer to hold position with deployable turrets and a full rack of light asssaults with one infiltrator scouting or sniping. LA instead of HA for mobility, if your goal is capturing I want LA players to hop around hiding spots and lay ambushes on people trying to get CP back, while medics revive eachother, and heal people inside the capture room, which is going to get spammed by granades.

[bpostal]

If I had to guess I'd start at one medic per fire team, two engies and two maxes per squad. Adjust as needed

[Ruffdog]

I was gonna say: where's the MAX love? :)

[Noctis]

If I had to guess I'd start at one medic per fire team, two engies and two maxes per squad. Adjust as needed

I wouldn't consider MAXes, mostly because they have cooldowns, MAXes are best used with mass Pod Deployment once the are is clear, plus they are treated like vehicles maybe

Of course a 7 Max 3 Engi squad would be nice, but kinda hard to be moved around

[Solidblock]

I think at least one MAX would be useful in a squad. Yes it'll be quite slow, yes it'll have a cooldown as opposed to other classes. At the end of the day, this is speculation but I feel that if correctly used the MAX could outlive it's cooldown and provide an infantry squad with some well needed heavy firepower.

[Noctis]

I think at least one MAX would be useful in a squad. Yes it'll be quite slow, yes it'll have a cooldown as opposed to other classes. At the end of the day, this is speculation but I feel that if correctly used the MAX could outlive it's cooldown and provide an infantry squad with some well needed heavy firepower.

One? I think one Max can get easly overwhelmed, especially while assaulting when you don't have the defensive-advanteges. As far as we know if a LA / HA manages to have a 4-5 seconds hit-streak at mid range the MAX is gone, especially at short range with headshots.

If I had to plan MAXes on the field, once inside the capture points I'd just drop all the MAXes using pods of course.

[IgloGlass]

Too long of a quote, but I agree. Of course it's all the commanders personal preferences and I did get that convoy system, it was quite nice and well thought out. A thing I would change however is that I think infiltrators COULD be incredibly useful in every single one of the roles you described. For basehold they could sit on a tower or at a vantage point that could cover one of the entrances to base providing recon and if needed, firepower. I hope that once I'm in this game I can do this role!

That is true, didn't think of that! Kind of limited the "base hold" to the room itself where you hack. Placing 2 Infiltrators or more to cover the entrances could indeed prove to be very useful! I would definetely want a sniper lowering the health of that MAX that is just about to enter and start shooting at me! ;)

[feuerdog]

I'd look at it two ways....

A. A multi-purpose/all-purpose squad/platoon that is structured for as many possible generic eventualities as possible.

B. A mission specific squad/platoon that is assembled with completing a focused objective.

Which would I use? Both. Depending on the situation, and leaderships best judgement of chance of success.

For generic organization, look at the compostions possible in US Navy SEAL teams, or Ranger SFODA teams.
They are designed to be flexible multi-mission capable customized teams.

In Planetside i'd look primarily for specific minimum requirements to be multi-mission capable.
Assuming the typical 3 squads to a platoon; each squad would....

1. Be self/bulk(sunderer/galaxy) transportable by either land or air, or both.
2. Have at least one HA or Max unit focused on anti-infantry.
3. Have at least one improved cert Medic with group healing/revive.
4. Have at least one improved cert Engineer with repair/construction.
5. Have at least one improved cert Infiltrator with hacking/stealth.
6. Have at least one improved cert LA, with squad spawn/waypoints.
7. Have at least one anti-ground vehicle weapon.
8. Have at least one guided anti-air vehicle weapon.

To further improve on this composition, each player would need:
1. Cross-certification into at least one other improved primary role.
2. Have some level of self-heal/self repair functionality.

The tricky part, aside from not knowing what PS2 has in store for us, is to what level of cert specialization will be considered improved enough to be adequate.

As for vehicles, I don't see them as a core of organization, but more of a supporting role.
Since anyone can essentially spawn anything, agin it becomes a matter of bringing the right tool for the job.
To further improve the squad compositon again, each squad would have:
1. One improved Bomber/Fighter/Transport air cert.
1. One improved Tank/Buggy/Transport ground cert.

Further specialization of a non-generic nature would be hard to define, but I wouldn't rule out squads of:
1. Infiltrators for guerilla warfare.
2. Armor only players.
3. Air only players.
4. MAX only.
5. Light Assault only.
6. Etc
It would depend on the need of the mission at hand.

One thing is for sure though, the braod possibilities that PS2 presents us with means that almost any custom composition is possible as long as the resources are there to support it.

[Solidblock]

One? I think one Max can get easly overwhelmed, especially while assaulting when you don't have the defensive-advanteges. As far as we know if a LA / HA manages to have a 4-5 seconds hit-streak at mid range the MAX is gone, especially at short range with headshots.

If I had to plan MAXes on the field, once inside the capture points I'd just drop all the MAXes using pods of course.

What do you mean 'one?' haha? I meant in cohesion with a normal squad consisting of medics, engineers and combinations of assault troops. If you have a MAX in your squad and they don't. You're at a complete advantage. You're also wording it, and I'm sure I'm mistaken, that the MAX is squishier than the other classes. I'll admit it might get focused more, but with good engineers and a squad around the MAX unit, this won't be a problem.

[Noctis]

Yea for sure, flamethrowers are kinda deadly, and suit best for point capture point rooms defense. Anyway I see maxes like vehicles, most effective in groups, I'd like to get in the facility, and drop 7 maxes and 3 engineers on the field at once. Max surely gives advantages, but they aren't bulletproof robots anymore

[IgloGlass]

Yea for sure, flamethrowers are kinda deadly, and suit best for point capture point rooms defense. Anyway I see maxes like vehicles, most effective in groups, I'd like to get in the facility, and drop 7 maxes and 3 engineers on the field at once. Max surely gives advantages, but they aren't bulletproof robots anymore

Though I believe flamethrowers will be quite difficult weapons to handle. Especially if you put a twelve year old inside that suit. Griefing will most likely happen I guess. But a MAX standing next to a doorframe with non-stop fire is probably going to be quite deadly.

[Solidblock]

Yea for sure, flamethrowers are kinda deadly, and suit best for point capture point rooms defense. Anyway I see maxes like vehicles, most effective in groups, I'd like to get in the facility, and drop 7 maxes and 3 engineers on the field at once. Max surely gives advantages, but they aren't bulletproof robots anymore

The Devs would not have made the MAX's to work like vehicles although they do have a cooldown and I think they also cost resources (?). 7 MAX's and 3 engineers isn't a flexible combination, a flexible combination would be a combination of all the classes with a particular emphasis on assault troopers of one or both kinds. The amount of firepower the MAX could give to a squad (Even 1) and the ability to storm a room soaking up more firepower than ANY other class can take will undoubtedly be huge advantage to any squad.

I'm not saying that the MAX-Engineer combo isn't a complete bad one, but a good squad would focus the engineers before the MAX's. It's just an easy combo to counter. A good infiltrator could ruin that squads engineers in 1 clip.

[Fenrod]

For capture, I'd probably say :

3 Light Assault
2 Engineers
2 Medics
1 Max (Infantry weapons)

But a MAX standing next to a doorframe with non-stop fire is probably going to be quite deadly.

Hell yeah, especially with two machineguns.

[Sledgecrushr]

One squad of guys, hmmm... This post needs ti be expanded to what you want in your platoon.

[Noctis]

One squad of guys, hmmm... This post needs ti be expanded to what you want in your platoon.

Well the opening post was about one squad or one platoon, if anyone wants to share a wide strategic plan based on 2-3 squads that would be nice to read!

[feuerdog]

A platoon is made up of squads, so we can always extrapolate from one into the other.
If a squad is about 6~10 players, then you only have to determine you required need to complete the objective. One squad, two squads, or an entire platoon,....or two?

The tricky part isn't determining how many, but what composition, and is it generic or specific. There are far too many variables to predict specifics, so you either build as per the need or cover as many common needs as possible.

MAXs have been shown in pre-beta footage to be outmaneauverable and more readily defeatable, but it's important to note that this is pre-beta and there is much balancing to be done.
IMO the MAX will be very powerful at holding room/choke point, especially with proper engineer support.
Again, pre-beta footage has not shown alot of well played MAX units.

Also, we have not seen how different the continents, terrain, and bases will actuially be. There will surely be aspects of Biolabs alone that dictate the need of a specific squad composition.
How about night operations? Night/thermal vision needs?
Elevated base structures? Light asasault, airborne needs?
Open terrain bases? Armored vehicle, Gal spawn needs?

Flexible and rapidly adapative compositons will be key aspect of successful ops.

[Sledgecrushr]

So what we need are a series of hypothetical situations that we can try to overcome with our squad or platoon. For example you are travelling with your platoon of thirty guys and you will be moving through enemy held territory in an attempt to flank a major base. What will your platoon be composed of?
Edit* the terrain is desert plateau, small trees and lots of ravines. The visibility is only up to 1000 meters because it is a clear day. The time is 0800 and you are moving towards the rising sun.

[Fenrod]

So what we need are a series of hypothetical situations that we can try to overcome with our squad or platoon. For example you are travelling with your platoon of thirty guys and you will be moving through enemy held territory in an attempt to flank a major base. What will your platoon be composed of?
Edit* the terrain is desert plateau, small trees and lots of ravines. The visibility is only up to 1000 meters because it is a clear day. The time is 0800 and you are moving towards the rising sun.

Obiously, in a sutiation like this, the platonn should be composed of Flamethrower MAXes, Infiltrators, Medics and Light assault, since the other classes would be quite useless : MAXes would be in front line to clean, Infiltrators and Light Assault troops would try to cap the base as fast as possible.

Let's say 8 MAXes, 7 Light Assault, 7 Infiltrators, 6 Medics, and 2 Engineers for the MAXes.

[ringring]

I wouldn't consider MAXes, mostly because they have cooldowns, MAXes are best used with mass Pod Deployment once the are is clear, plus they are treated like vehicles maybe

Of course a 7 Max 3 Engi squad would be nice, but kinda hard to be moved around
Where did this max is a vehicle thing come from ???

[IgloGlass]

Where did this max is a vehicle thing come from ???

The developers have talked about it and they are not sure if people should be allowed to choose a MAX whenever they want to, or if it should be on a cooldown and/or have a resource cost.

It is more likely that you won't be able to choose a MAX every time you respawn but nothing is set in stone as of now. Things like that will be decided upon during beta.

[feuerdog]

.....you are travelling with your platoon of thirty guys and you will be moving through enemy held territory in an attempt to flank a major base. What will your platoon be composed of?
Edit* the terrain is desert plateau, small trees and lots of ravines. The visibility is only up to 1000 meters because it is a clear day. The time is 0800 and you are moving towards the rising sun.

Why are we flanking? What is the objective?
Is this a feint/capture/destruction effort, or what?
What is the enemy composition?
What is the target objective structure, if any?
Do we have supporting elements?
What assets and/or limitations do we have?

I know what your'e getting at at, but my point is that there are way too many variables to dictate a specific optimal organization.

Given the generic nature of your scenario, my force composition would be generic in nature due to the unknown nature of the objective. A combined arms force of at least platoon strength due to the unknown nature of the enemy, focused on mobility due to the open terrain, and moving at high speed to increase any chances of surprise.

[HeatLegend]

2 MAX's
2 HA
2 LA
2 Medics
1 Engineer
1 Infiltrator

That'd more or less be my standard squad, seeing as all but the MAX's actually serve as infantry as well I figured we could have a shortage on the Assault classes. And the way I see it... Infiltrator could probably be swapped to another Medic or LA- depends on the situation.

[Stanis]

So what we need are a series of hypothetical situations that we can try to overcome with our squad or platoon. For example you are travelling with your platoon of thirty guys and you will be moving through enemy held territory in an attempt to flank a major base. What will your platoon be composed of?
Edit* the terrain is desert plateau, small trees and lots of ravines. The visibility is only up to 1000 meters because it is a clear day. The time is 0800 and you are moving towards the rising sun.

Combined arms.

Air platoon
5x air (reaver/mossie/scythe)
2x AA max for a staging/retreat zone
2x AA spec lightning for staging/retreat/air support
1x galaxy

air provides forward scouting and air superiroity.
in the event of engaing enemy the aim is to retreat to kill zone created by maxes and lightning.
lightning pilots can provide repair for maxes if necessary

galaxy provides forward staging and ground squad drop capability. when in the air, 5x provides cover.

Armour
2x lightning with AA secondary
4x or 8x MBT (with/without gunners depending on metagame)

Ground
fire teams of 3. 1 medic per team.
based on player preferences.
can respawn at galaxy and reclass if required.


Far more important for each squad to be able to drop its assigned role and take another.
air/armour can easily leave vehicle and join the foot troops.
it is tempting to have a 2nd galaxy on standby. just because.

[feuerdog]

Combined arms.

Far more important for each squad to be able to drop its assigned role and take another.
air/armour can easily leave vehicle and join the foot troops.


This. Agreed.

[Noctis]

We don't know if drop pod system will be modified, but as currently is such scenario could happen:

Step one -> One leader certified squad infiltrates the complex
Step two -> 3 platoons divides 10 leaders quickly
Step three -> massive drop

This is what gonna easly happen if they don't change the currently drop mechanism.

[Fenrod]

I don't think the drop pods can go through the shield, actually.

[XPquant]

What would you know of the current drop mechanism?

My squad is 9 light assualt, 1 engy.

[Noctis]

which shields sir?

[Fenrod]

Well, I thought every base has a shield generator that produces a sort of plasma shield ?

PS : Just saw a TotalHalibut gameplay video : It's indeed 10 people per squad.

[feuerdog]

The possibility still exists for base sheilds.
There is also possibly a drop zone/exclusionary SOI for enemy controlled bases.
It currently appears that Biolab domes are not penetrated by drop pods at all.

Again,...this is unknown beta stuff.

[Gortha]

Which Certs/Classes i would put into my Squad, depends on what my squad will eventually be facing.


But my favorite Squad would look like this:
Based on experience i got as a PS-Vet.

General Certs:
Infantry -> Rexos only
Infantry -> Repair and Medic/Adv. Cbt.Medic
Infantry -> HA and/or Spec-Assault

Old Planetside:

Squad Members:
8x Rexos:
4x HA/Spec & Medium-Assault
2x Anti-Vehicluar & Mediem-Assault
2x Combat-Engineer

2x Max Units (Ai/Av/Aa depending on Circumstances/Ground)

Nearly all can Revivie/Rezz and Repair Armor.
Also a good mix of Vehicle/Air-Certs are needed to be mobile and flexible.

New Planetside:

Squad Members:
8x Infantry:
4x Medic
3x Heavy Assault Anti-Vehicluar & Heavy-Assualt & Mediem-Assault Weapons Mix
1x Combat-Engineer

2x Max Units (Ai/Av/Aa Weapon Mix depending on Ground'/Cirumstances)

That would be my Choice.

[Noctis]

There are domes, but it's uncertain if they will place domes on every complex, just a few, or only the ones that cannot be owned by the enemy faction. Also there might be generators related to them. If so, infantry will have a bigger impact, also siege and flanking will be much more important.

[McCutcheon]

For the new Planetside, I would make a platoon similar to that of a company, with three rifle squads and an attached weapons squad.

rifle squad 1,2 (Frontal Assault Groups):
6 Light Assault
2 Medics
2 Heavy Assault

rifle squad 3 (Covert Operations Group):
6 Infiltrators
2 Medics
2 LA carrying demolitions

Weapons Squad:
3 Heavy Assaults carrying extra AT weaponry.
4 MAX Suits (2 Anti-Infantry, 1 AT, 1 AA)
3 Engineers
Two Galaxys would be needed for the Weapons Squad due to its four MAX suits, and so the second Galaxy carrying the 2 extra MAXs would be supported by the second rifle squad, whilst the first FAC assaults the base and the COG is occupied with infiltrating defenses.
The HA in the Weapons Squad will act as a security detail for the Weapons Squad while it sets up turrets and the MAXs get positioned to eliminate enemy aircraft and vehicles.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. After torturing you to make sure you hadn't told anyone else before I killed you.