I really wish

[Beerwig]

that this game was pay to play.The f2p model just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.The main reason for this is that every f2p game I have ever played was full of hackers.Another concern is that they will start selling power.I know they said that its cosmetic only,but what if they don't hit their money target?What if they start selling power crystals that boost damage by 75%?It's just that this game seems to be turning into the game that I have always wanted.I can't think of anything the devs are doing that I would do differently.
Most games today are getting smaller and dumber(Bf3),but this game is moving forward;an epic fps experience that won't get old for years and years.
Hopefully the devs don't cave in to greedy suits.

[braydog]

The concerns you express are the exact same concerns the devs have expressed. (That just shows how in tune with the community they are.) I hope their greedy suits are locked away in their closets too.

I'm sure we'll be ok, though. I don't think they'll ever have a buy power option.
*fingers crossed

[Firearms]

The main reason for this is that every f2p game I have ever played was full of hackers.

Any game you have ever played is full of hackers :rolleyes:
Which part of the pay system do you think prevented that....?

[Katanauk]

Planetside had a few hackers

Then the reserves initiative was introduced . . . woah.

So yeah, I definitely understand that, but devs have already said they were undermanned, now they are not. I trust them.

I'll buy a few cosmetics, if just to support the idea that things for sale should not make you win!

[Valkan]

Which part of the pay system do you think prevented that....?

I guess the part where a hacker gets banned and loses 50 bucks and the ongoing subscription fee.

Worst : the average gamer ends up thinking all the others are hacking : "there are lots of hackers on F2P games, therefore the guy that just shot me was one of them because ... well ... I'm unbeatable by normal means".

So you're either rage quiting being convinced that this game is full of cheats or rage quiting because you are constantly insulted and accused of hacking.

[Death2All]

So you're either rage quiting being convinced that this game is full of cheats or rage quiting because you are constantly insulted and accused of hacking.

If you rage quit a game because someone is accusing you of hacking after you owned them, then you're playing games for the wrong reason.

[Sturmhardt]

And I wish that black was pink... And now?

[Firearms]

I guess the part where a hacker gets banned and loses 50 bucks and the ongoing subscription fee..

And that too happens everyday. If you're concerned that the F2P nature of the game will encourage your average Joe to hack then that may be legitimate concern but equally you're dismissing SOE's strategy - Whatever that is....

OMG F2P meenz h4x0rz fTw is as old as it ever was tho....:rolleyes:

[Gugabalog]

P2P won't happen. It's been repeatedly emphasized. Sorry.

[Brusi]

I really wish my car would start in the mornings... Why the fuck does it have to be so cold!

[Beerwig]

One of the f2p games, I think it was called Crossfire,had more hackers than I have ever seen in one match.I honestly don't see many hackers at all in Bf3.Anyway,Im still really stoked for PS2,and I hope they are super succesful.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

They wouldn't have gotten a green light to make PS2 without F2P. Period.

[Crator]

If the F2P business model flops then it flops. Then they'll have to change it. Wait and see situation here. IMO, I think the F2P model will be wildly successful as long as they can control hackers.

[dafuq]

just wait and see

the only thing that is 10000000% save is that there is going to be an hack available at launch day

hi @ artificial aiming... the other hacking thread already described it pretty well.. the head admin of the site already is in tech test and got an aimbot up and running


this game will die because of its f2p model. its only a question of time

[Astrok]

that this game was pay to play.The f2p model just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.The main reason for this is that every f2p game I have ever played was full of hackers.Another concern is that they will start selling power.I know they said that its cosmetic only,but what if they don't hit their money target?What if they start selling power crystals that boost damage by 75%?It's just that this game seems to be turning into the game that I have always wanted.I can't think of anything the devs are doing that I would do differently.
Most games today are getting smaller and dumber(Bf3),but this game is moving forward;an epic fps experience that won't get old for years and years.
Hopefully the devs don't cave in to greedy suits.

Hmm But what if they don't hit their money target?

What if u got hit by a train? What if is nothing really.

Just enjoy game when it releases and enjoy it for hopefully a very long time.
Money? I can say for me atleast that i like to look different then others so they already have my money for a few cosmetic things(i pay anyway for donation for the game).

[OnexBigxHebrew]

just wait and see

the only thing that is 10000000% save is that there is going to be an hack available at launch day

hi @ artificial aiming... the other hacking thread already described it pretty well.. the head admin of the site already is in tech test and got an aimbot up and running


this game will die because of its f2p model. its only a question of time

You obviously haven't seen how well F2P companies are doing.

You may not play it because of the F2P model, but this game will make infinately more money than it would have with subs. Unbelievable hordes of people that aren't you will flock to this game, for better or worse.

Throw in the fact that the game is shaping up to be awesome, and there's a recipe for financial success, beyond wether the game is fun for hardcore players, or filled with hacking 11 year olds.

You're just flat out wrong.

[Astrok]

You obviously haven't seen how well F2P companies are doing.

You may not play it because of the F2P model, but this game will make infinately more money than it would have with subs. Unbelievable hordes of people that aren't you will flock to this game, for better or worse.

Throw in the fact that the game is shaping up to be awesome, and there's a recipe for financial success, beyond wether the game is fun for hardcore players, or filled with hacking 11 year olds.

You're just flat out wrong.

U can take DC universe for a example.Their profits went up sky rocketing when they went f2p.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

U can take DC universe for a example.Their profits went up sky rocketing when they went f2p.

Exactly. There's a reason why there's a F2P version of BF2 (in essence) and SWTOR is also confirmd for that direction.

Microtransactions = $$$, especially for games that don't hit marks at retail, or ones that get F2P remakes that require only adding a cash shop.

[Warruz]

I personally am hoping for a guild wars 2 style of payment. You pay for the game it has no recurring payment however cosmetic stuff you can buy with cash.

[Crator]

Remove that hope then Warruz. Free-to-Play is defined as - No price to play the game at all. If they did do that then it would not be a F2P model anymore and could not advertise the game as such.

[Hatchak]

I personally am hoping for a guild wars 2 style of payment. You pay for the game it has no recurring payment however cosmetic stuff you can buy with cash.

Except they need TONS of people to pick up and play, if you put a $40 box price, there wont be enough people for the game to survive.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

I personally am hoping for a guild wars 2 style of payment. You pay for the game it has no recurring payment however cosmetic stuff you can buy with cash.

Doesn't matter what you're hoping for lol, pricing model is confirmed already.

[Astrok]

Doesn't matter what you're hoping for lol, pricing model is confirmed already.

Yes indeed,

And how to charge money for a free to play game? Kinda nonesence to.

Just trust me on this.They will make alot of money with planetside 2.Everyone(Well alot of people) will try to put in some money at some point.Even if its just a few euros a person they will make alot of money.

[Sunrock]

Way F2P can bring in more money then subscription fees are mainly because most players quit after 2 months of playing a sub fee but in a F2P game the usually drop all there money they going to spend on the game when they start to play the game. So even if in average players only spend $50 on a F2P game its only $30 in a sub game because they burn through all the content and get every thing in those 2 month they play. However if developers start to make game so the players stick around in average for 4+ months the sub fee would be more profitable.

So it's a short term money grab Vs a long term commitment. Personally I think for the players game experience a sub fee would be better as it promotes fair play more. But we all know all the fat cats just want to grab a quick buck and then run.

[Scotsh]

Way F2P can bring in more money then subscription fees are mainly because most players quit after 2 months of playing a sub fee but in a F2P game the usually drop all there money they going to spend on the game when they start to play the game. So even if in average players only spend $50 on a F2P game its only $30 in a sub game because they burn through all the content and get every thing in those 2 month they play. However if developers start to make game so the players stick around in average for 4+ months the sub fee would be more profitable.

So it's a short term money grab Vs a long term commitment. Personally I think for the players game experience a sub fee would be better as it promotes fair play more. But we all know all the fat cats just want to grab a quick buck and then run.

You are making a big mistake in that calculation. The average player may be paying less per month than in a subscription based game, but there are way more players if the game is F2P.
In sum that makes F2P more profitable, as multiple examples in the industry have already proven.
Planetside 1 dropped from 6 servers at release to 3 servers in a matter of a few months.

But we all know all the fat cats just want to grab a quick buck and then run.

Funny, from somebody using a BF3 avatar :D

[Infektion]

I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller, I wish a had a girl who looked good, I would call her. Wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat and a 64 impala.

[Sunrock]

You are making a big mistake in that calculation. The average player may be paying less per month than in a subscription based game, but there are way more players if the game is F2P.
In sum that makes F2P more profitable, as multiple examples in the industry have already proven.
Planetside 1 dropped from 6 servers at release to 3 servers in a matter of a few months.

Yes the only sub game that have not droped more player then they started out with during the first 2 months is WoW. Mainly because WoW manage to keep players interest in playing for a long time.

But those numbers are not per month but what players pay for the game in average from when they start playing to when they quit playing the game. That means that some players drop more then 50 and many under 50 in a F2P game. It also means that some players play for allot longer then 2 months but most quit before the first month in a sub game.

[Scotsh]

Sorry, but you are just pulling numbers out of your a**.

Subscription games are in decline, with more competition on the market it extremly hard to get something like this going.
Just from my experience:
I come from a very old shooter clan (UT99-mod) and most of us are still friends and we meet regulary for BBQ, Booze and classic LAN-gaming (CoD4 still).
None of them played PS1 or knew anything about PS2. But most of them will try out the game with me when its released. If there was a subcription involved there would be a near zero chance of them to even try it (we are getting old and set in our ways ;) ).
But as i know them there will be a very good chance for a few of them to stick with it if it good enough.

I had been playing SWTOR, joined a guild there, we got bored because of lacking content and horrible server populations and quit all. Most of them will return when it hits F2P, at least to play some storyline and may even drop a few bucks to do an OP again. This stuff works, plain and simple.

[Sunrock]

Sorry, but you are just pulling numbers out of your a**.


I got my numbers over at http://www.gamebreaker.tv/ from one of there articles there. Can't remember witch one now though.

PS: You will have to sub to the game if your going to do any operations in SWTOR.

[SFJake]

that this game was pay to play.The f2p model just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.The main reason for this is that every f2p game I have ever played was full of hackers.Another concern is that they will start selling power.I know they said that its cosmetic only,but what if they don't hit their money target?What if they start selling power crystals that boost damage by 75%?It's just that this game seems to be turning into the game that I have always wanted.I can't think of anything the devs are doing that I would do differently.
Most games today are getting smaller and dumber(Bf3),but this game is moving forward;an epic fps experience that won't get old for years and years.
Hopefully the devs don't cave in to greedy suits.

Pay to play for what? Server cost? Its getting absurd by now. No game is worth 15$ a month.

And less and less people want to deal with subscription.

I would not have even raised an eyebrow if this had a subscription fee.


An initial game cost (something like 60$) instead of subscription would be acceptable, subscription never was, however.

I do share your concern on free to play in general, though. Thats why I believe in single time payments (and properly priced expansions) over both subscription or free to play.

If free to play often turns into a rip off, subscription always is.

[Rivenshield]

I guess the part where a hacker gets banned and loses 50 bucks

They can't lose the fifty bucks if Sony doesn't charge for the client. Which they need to do, IMHO. It'll harden the target.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

I'm fine with F2P now that sub games are charging for items - that's the real ripoff.

I put 90 dollars into TERA just to have them sell a mount for $25 instead of actually making endgame content.

Now THAT game will die.

[Liwen Diamond]

I'm fine with F2P now that sub games are charging for items - that's the real ripoff.

I put 90 dollars into TERA just to have them sell a mount for $25 instead of actually making endgame content.

Now THAT game will die.

Is the mount actually better or just a comestic change? Sad about lack of endgame updates too.

If you had asked me what I thought of F2P one or two years ago, I'd probably laugh at you for even considering playing a game with such a buisness model. And back a few years ago, most people on this forum might actually have backed me up on that.

That's because until very recently, what we had on the F2P market was a bunch of shameless quick money grabs that sold you power knowing some people are crazy enough to spend thousands of dollars to remain competitive, mostly inspired by eastern market standards, where microtransactions have become the norm.

The problem is the companies making the first "generation" of western F2P games one could say, went about it all wrong, selling power items and boost and restricting content to the point that games felt more like a extended crappy demo and if you really wanted the good stuff, you had to shell out more money than on a traditionnal sub or one time purchase of the game. On top of it, most of these games were uninspired, buggy, had terrible servers and customer support. Customers aren't that thick and dumb to not notice they were getting ripped off and F2P got a really bad name. Hackers were just the icing on the cake.

But in today's world F2P is making a crazy comeback, rising in popularity because of a new line up of companies who DO understand that the best money to be made in F2P is on the long term, and for any game to last long enough to generate massive profits, they not only have to produce a good game but also offer fair microtransactions. Example of this done right include Leagues of Legend and Tribes : Ascend. The later especially for me is a ton of fun (Not much of a Moba player, but LoL is great regardless).

The only things you can't get in these games without paying real cash are cosmectic. Sure you can buy items, runes, etc instead of farming them if you don't want to grind (which can take a while I'll admit, but as long as your having fun in the process it's alright) but then it's just a matter of deciding : Do I want to pay money to get X thing now or can I pay in play hours? People with money to spare usually won't mind paying a few bucks for a gun or a set of runes, while people with no money can just grind it. Most people with no money tend to have a lot of free time anyway. (Because they have no job :cry:.)

And from what I heard from the developpers of this game, they know their stuff. They know what players fear and won't accept in terms of microtransactions and they will limit it to comestics and boosts that make you progress faster but don't outright make you more powerful because people will catch up to you at some point, and hopefully everything that you are unlocking faster is just sidegrades anyway. We all know every game has some balance issues. Likely some of these sidegrades might be a little overpowered and some underpowered but that's what patching is for.

Another good point that makes PS2 a good candidate for F2P model : Gear and Certs doesn't matter as much as in other MMOs like TERA. A newbie in PS2 will not come across someone wearing +12 endgame armor and weapons against which he can do bugger all and get horribly one shotted everytime. In PS2 you can kill anyone, even the oldest players of the server, on your first day of play. Personnal skill and good Team Play is much more important than having gun X or a leopard skin. It might seem counter intuitive at first : "Gear and certs don't matter, why should I pay to get them anyway?"

Some people will pay for the cosmetics.
Some people will pay because they don't have much free time, dispoable income and they want to try shiny stuff they otherwise would not have time to unlock by grind.
Some people just can't wait, they want shinies now.
Some people will just regonized this is a great game and sort of donate some spare money to encourage the dev team to continue onward with the project. Sort of like giving a good tip to the waitress who did her job well at the restaurant.

It is likely most people who still see F2P in a bad light today are either misinformed, or are the type who will never pay one cent on this game and are wondering why anybody in their right might would, coming to the conclusion the game will not generate enough profits with a fair F2P model, at which point the devs or men in greedy suits will attempt to rip us off and the game will die because we aren't idiots and we will leave.

Me I'm the type to give money away on a job well done. I'll probably buy a few cool looking skins with some of my spare cash. Don't expect me to put much more than 20-30$ in microtransaction per year on this game. But multiply that 20-30$ by 10 millions + players and there you have it, viable buisness model where everyone pays exactly what they want and are willing to spare with and everyone can enjoy an awesome game on a equal playing field (IF the actual game delivers the pure liquid awesome it appears to be made of :p)

/:eek: wall of text, wall of text, I like to write, walls of text.

[Piper]

A subscription system is, to me, and always will be better than micro-transactions.

Despite what the claims are made by companies MT's can lead to "mission creep". If revenues aren't expected, then sell stuff that people will really want to buy more than the other stuff that's been offered. Pay to win by degrees.

I'm just a grumpy old gamer. A subscription is 50 cents a day. It's akin to putting 50 cents into an arcade game machine. Everyone's 50 cents buys them the same possibility from the game. What you can't do with an arcade machine is put a dollar in and buy X amount of time with frills.

While no payment method stops hacking, making accounts free (to create and to use) does only exacerbate it.

[Tuoweit]

A subscription system is, to me, and always will be better than micro-transactions.

Despite what the claims are made by companies MT's can lead to "mission creep". If revenues aren't expected, then sell stuff that people will really want to buy more than the other stuff that's been offered. Pay to win by degrees.

If nobody wants to buy what's in the shop, it's not because they want something else in the shop - it's because the game sucks, period.

The solution isn't to add i-win buttons to the shop (which will kill the game for sure), but to improve the game so that people want to buy what's already available.

[PhoenixDog]

Why are we complaining so much about hacking!? I'll be hacking the day beta hits. How else do you take over bases?

You're all stupid

[Gugabalog]

Sarcasm ftw XD

[Crator]

No, you're actually supposed to try and hack (find exploits) in beta. So they can fix it right?

[Sunrock]

Why are we complaining so much about hacking!? I'll be hacking the day beta hits. How else do you take over bases?

You're all stupid

Hehehe. I don't think they are talking about the game mech hacking but the hacking of the game client or server to cheat in game.

[ArmedZealot]

Hehehe. I don't think they are talking about the game mech hacking but the hacking of the game client or server to cheat in game.


Whatever faction you are playing I won't be on it. My bet is NC. They take on people like you. :D

[Sunrock]

No, you're actually supposed to try and hack (find exploits) in beta. So they can fix it right?

Hacking is not finding exploits. Hacking is using 3rd party programs to alter the game code or enable things that you're not suppose to have access too on the game server.

[Crator]

NC takes anyone! ;)

Hacking is not finding exploits. Hacking is using 3rd party programs to alter the game code or enable things that you're not suppose to have access too on the game server.


Hmm, guess you're right. I always kind of put them in same bucket. But in regards to both aren't you supposed to find them things and report them to make so they can't be used?

[Sunrock]

Whatever faction you are playing I won't be on it. My bet is NC. They take on people like you. :D

I really hope we are not... I really don't like to play with stupid players.

[ArmedZealot]

I really hope we are not... I really don't like to play with stupid players.

:rofl:

[Sunrock]

Hmm, guess you're right. I always kind of put them in same bucket. But in regards to both aren't you supposed to find them things and report them to make so they can't be used?

Well cheating is cheating no matter how you do it so yea...

[Crator]

Whatever faction you are playing I won't be on it. My bet is NC. They take on people like you. :D

I really hope we are not... I really don't like to play with stupid players.

Pot... Kettle... Black...

[PhoenixDog]

Hehehe. I don't think they are talking about the game mech hacking but the hacking of the game client or server to cheat in game.

:domotwak:

[RazorWind]

I really wish... that beta is Friday and not Monday, I go back to school Monday :cry:

[adddemon]

I think the idea that an MMO must be Pay to Play in order to have good support and content updates is as old and wrong a notion as Free to Play always meaning its not a good game.

games like SWToR should show that just because a game is pay to play, it does not guarantee constant updates by the developer.

while at the same time games like League of Legends has a good amount of support and content updates over the years.

[Beerwig]

that I hadn't started this thread.

[PhoenixDog]

that I hadn't started this thread.

Now what have we learned?

[Liwen Diamond]

that I hadn't started this thread.

It's okay dude. Welcome to the internet. Where everybody is always wrong or lying to you or just plain insane. All the time. Even now. You are a pink bunny.

[Littleman]

It's okay dude. Welcome to the internet. Where everybody is always wrong or lying to you or just plain insane. All the time. Even now. You are a pink bunny.

I love pink bunnies! They just go on and on and on and on and on...

[exLupo]

I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller

I'm glad I'm not the only one who went there.

Beyond CS and tech working against hackers, the skill system is going to be a big hindrance as well. Sure, they can keep making bogus accounts but they'll all be relegated to basic roles, no vehicles, no mods, no enhanced stats. In EVE, botters do get away with building skills but they do it by hiding in plain sight. In non-monitored FPS, hackers get away flagrant exploiting with it due to lack of interference in their jackassery.

PS2 will be unappealing as to gain an advantage, you'll have to stand out. If you stand out, you'll get hammered down. If you come back, it'll be "Hello newb" over.. and over.. and over. Will there be hackers? Of course. There will always be, in any game. Will it be a re-hash of PS1's Reserves horror show? I highly doubt it.

[SixShooter]

Pay to play is quickly becoming a thing of the past. SWTOR is a pretty good example of that with the amount of subs that have dropped off most likely playing a huge role in the decision to go F2P. The F2P line up is getting bigger all the time and I think it's a great thing.

Hackers will happen no matter what and pay to play is not much of a deterrent.

[dafuq]

Pay to play is quickly becoming a thing of the past. SWTOR is a pretty good example of that with the amount of subs that have dropped off most likely playing a huge role in the decision to go F2P. The F2P line up is getting bigger all the time and I think it's a great thing.

Hackers will happen no matter what and pay to play is not much of a deterrent.

SWTOR subs dropped because the game was shit and had no endgame content

[exLupo]

Remove the SWTOR line from his statement and it's no less valid.

[Salad Snake]

I wish I was a little bit taller, I wish I was a baller, I wish a had a girl who looked good, I would call her. Wish i had a rabbit in a hat with a bat and a 64 impala.

*Does the whistle*



/:eek: wall of text, wall of text, I like to write, walls of text.

A very nice wall! :D

[Dread]

Im not to concerned F2P means if it turns out to be high on the hacker side and selling power atleast u werent paying to play aginst hackers!

[MCYRook]

Planetside had a few hackers

Then the reserves initiative was introduced . . . woah.
The worst hacking in PS1 (pull hack, cheaters eradicating dozens of players within seconds etc.) happened long after Reserves.

Pay2Play or not, the game NEEDS both a half-working anticheat system and good GM coverage to combat that shit.