Sunderer

[Gugabalog]

Does anyone else think the Sunderer will basically function like an MRAPS with a dual CROWS system? Any ideas on its combat doctrine?

[Astrok]

Does anyone else think the Sunderer will basically function like an MRAPS with a dual CROWS system? Any ideas on its combat doctrine?

lol whats a mraps?

[culkid]

lol whats a mraps?

The guy talks like we all know what the hell that crap is haha.

[Gugabalog]

Wikipedia is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CROWS

[Littleman]

The sunderer is indeed designed to stop freight trains dead in their tracks. How well it will fare against mines however, is still yet to be seen.

And yeah... let's not assume people know what most military acronyms are, or that they should have to use wikipedia to figure it out, especially if you're looking for an answer or meaningful discussion.

[Sledgecrushr]

Well the sunderer is fast, pretty well armored and if certed right can ferry around twenty mechanized infantrymen. The sunderer is the battle taxi of death.

[Gugabalog]

The sunderer is indeed designed to stop freight trains dead in their tracks. How well it will fare against mines however, is still yet to be seen.

And yeah... let's not assume people know what most military acronyms are, or that they should have to use wikipedia to figure it out, especially if you're looking for an answer or meaningful discussion.

I suppose. I'm just so jaded by a certain kind of forum member...

[Ertwin]

Probably, it looks a lot like a Wisent
http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/stories/europe/germany/wheeled_armoured/wisent/Wisent_8x8_wheeled_armored_transport_vehicle_Rhein metall_Germany_German_line_drawing_blueprint_001.j pg

[Reaction]

I like to think of sundy's as stryker's really.. Customizable weapons on it and it can carry 2 squads into battle with overwatch fire support on a mobile platform.

[Blackwolf]

I suppose. I'm just so jaded by a certain kind of forum member...

So I have to ask, did this topic come up for discussion because you are genuinely curious, or because you wanted to grow your epeen?

Honestly, the Sunderer strikes me as a Stryker unit. PS1 came out with mine clearing and CY shield piercing abilities allowing it to storm into court yards and deploy troops right next to the door, but it's use was limited in a lot of ways.

[Bags]

Wikipedia is your friend.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CROWS

Including necessary information in your post is your friend*

[SpcFarlen]

Beta will show us because none of us know or are even allowed to say. But im fairly certain they will take damage from all explosives.

[Gugabalog]

So I have to ask, did this topic come up for discussion because you are genuinely curious, or because you wanted to grow your epeen?

Honestly, the Sunderer strikes me as a Stryker unit. PS1 came out with mine clearing and CY shield piercing abilities allowing it to storm into court yards and deploy troops right next to the door, but it's use was limited in a lot of ways.

I am genuinely curious. Also, I think of the Lightning as more of a Stryker than of the Sunderer as such.

Including necessary information in your post is your friend*

It was assumed that people who were either interested enough to comment would look it up or would already have enough familiarity with military doctrines and equipment that they would be able to provide insight.

[Reaction]

Lightning is a 1 man vehicle while a sundy is like a stryker in real life.. Designed to carry squads into combat and provide firepower cover for deployment and retrievel

[Gugabalog]

I know that the Stryker is a deployment vehicle as well, but combat wise the Lightning seems to fulfill that role better i.e. what the two vehicles have as armaments.

[JesNC]

One's a light tank, the other is an APC. Kinda hard to confuse their roles really.

And MRAP is an attribute to a vehicle, not a distinct vehicle class.


So what's this thread about again?

[Gugabalog]

One's a light tank, the other is an APC. Kinda hard to confuse their roles really.

And MRAP is an attribute to a vehicle, not a distinct vehicle class.


So what's this thread about again?

I simply state that in relation to direct combat capability the Lightning is closer to the Stryker than the Sunderer is. In terms of combat transportation capability the Sunderer is closer to the Stryker than the Lightning is. The Stryker fills multiple niches.

The MRAP variant I refer to is:

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRd2UqQtxT40MMDQd5Dy2RJBCRfyqbLO qAxcB0nMIvNc5vAatlj

[Ertwin]

In all likelihood, there will be a utility that allows you to "MRAP" your vehicle. (Make it resistant to mines)

I'm pretty sure I heard that listed as an example in one of the earliest talks about sidegrades.

[Reaction]

I simply state that in relation to direct combat capability the Lightning is closer to the Stryker than the Sunderer is. In terms of combat transportation capability the Sunderer is closer to the Stryker than the Lightning is. The Stryker fills multiple niches.

The MRAP variant I refer to is:

https://encrypted-tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRd2UqQtxT40MMDQd5Dy2RJBCRfyqbLO qAxcB0nMIvNc5vAatlj

I understand what your trying to say however You do realize the Lightning has a 105 main cannon on it correct?

Stryker's with this option do not carry squads of ground troops however. Normal mobile stryker's usually have a 30mm chain gun or a TOW launcher or some type of similar varient while still carrying the squads etc.

that's all i mean really the lightning does not fill a stryker's role.. the bradley would be closer to the lightning's role even tho it can carry a squad also.

One of my first priorities on certs besides command certs will be to fully deck out the sund as I believe it will be a major part of PS2 combat and tactics.. and not as under utalized as the bang bus was in PS1.

[Gugabalog]

The Stryker can mount the same cannon as the Abrams. I've already clearly outlined the Sunderer and Lightning both fill different roles that the Stryker fills both of.

Now can we please get past the "Is it similar or not?" part and on to the "Any ideas about combat doctrine?" part?

[Blackwolf]

The Stryker can mount the same cannon as the Abrams. I've already clearly outlined the Sunderer and Lightning both fill different roles that the Stryker fills both of.

Now can we please get past the "Is it similar or not?" part and on to the "Any ideas about combat doctrine?" part?

You don't seem to understand the absurdity of your statement.

You are comparing a lightly armored single man vehicle to a heavily armed and armored multi-passanger troop transport vehicle.

The lightning of PS1 had a single 75mm cannon and a 25mm machine gun. The newly referbished and fully modified Sunderer of PS1 featured 2 75mm cannons and 2 25mm machine guns on top, as well as two side mounted machine guns of I can't remember what caliber but I think it was 25mm machine guns.

PS2's Sunderer will probably have a similar armament and be fully customizable to allow for more players to have fun. Including the potential ability for passengers to shoot out of the ports themselves.

The Stryker is a multi-purpose vehicle that can have several gun mounts on it, so can the Sunderer. In fact I'm fairly certain that every vehicle in the game will have multiple weapons available for use. But the core purpose behind the Stryker and Sunderer is the same, troop transportation and fire support.

The Lightning will never serve as troop transport and likely won't make effective fire support. It's probably going to be the game's tank killer and mobile AA support.

[aleksandrgrc]

i think this all depends on what the populations like in the area ur playing, attacking or defending. i wanna see a video of a sundie or pair of pushing a MBT off of a cliff face at some point. just throwing that out there.

[Gugabalog]

You don't seem to understand the absurdity of your statement.

You are comparing a lightly armored single man vehicle to a heavily armed and armored multi-passanger troop transport vehicle.

The lightning of PS1 had a single 75mm cannon and a 25mm machine gun. The newly referbished and fully modified Sunderer of PS1 featured 2 75mm cannons and 2 25mm machine guns on top, as well as two side mounted machine guns of I can't remember what caliber but I think it was 25mm machine guns.

PS2's Sunderer will probably have a similar armament and be fully customizable to allow for more players to have fun. Including the potential ability for passengers to shoot out of the ports themselves.

The Stryker is a multi-purpose vehicle that can have several gun mounts on it, so can the Sunderer. In fact I'm fairly certain that every vehicle in the game will have multiple weapons available for use. But the core purpose behind the Stryker and Sunderer is the same, troop transportation and fire support.

The Lightning will never serve as troop transport and likely won't make effective fire support. It's probably going to be the game's tank killer and mobile AA support.

I see the Lightning as the equivalent of a Stryker with a 120 cannon and a Sunderer as Heavy Troop transport w/o very heavy firepower albeit still considerable firepower. Is there anything absurd about that?
Now can we move the discussion forward?

[aleksandrgrc]

also, a cow catcher add on. if woody harlson can have one on a cadillac suv in zombieland. than i want to see that crap on sundies in planetside :) maybe spiked hubcaps or a rhino horn as well lol.

[Gugabalog]

The rhino horn might work. Sunderers are supposed to be great at ramming.

I was wondering about CIC sunderers the other day.

[aleksandrgrc]

i liked the video with total halibut when three sunderers blew by him in that one small base that was pretty intimidating to think him and his squad being pushed indoors simply by the space those rhinos take up then pinned inside with 6 turrets possibly grenade launchers and having up to 30 guys take the territory without giving the defenders a fair fight from square one. i think in smaller battles these will pin troops and allow their own infantry to seize advantage upon arrival. also of note was that one of them in the video was on fire and eventually blew up, but it made it to target while the other two seemed undamaged. in larger battles left behind to target aircraft or used to suicide up close to the base. i figure galaxies will be more usefull in the larger battles and overkill in smaller. but what the hell do i know. will there be such things as smaller battles lol? also i dont see the sunder doing much in defensive rolls. other than just sitting their maybe shooting aircraft if its covered well.

i can also see some players using it as a replacement for biggies for the time being if they can get one to move and turn well enough.

[GhettoPrince]

It carries a full squad and has more hp and firepower than a tank.

There's a reason we call it the bang bus.

[exLupo]

I always thought it was called the bang bus because anyone who gets inside gets F'd.

[Sledgecrushr]

i liked the video with total halibut when three sunderers blew by him in that one small base that was pretty intimidating to think him and his squad being pushed indoors simply by the space those rhinos take up then pinned inside with 6 turrets possibly grenade launchers and having up to 30 guys take the territory without giving the defenders a fair fight from square one. i think in smaller battles these will pin troops and allow their own infantry to seize advantage upon arrival. also of note was that one of them in the video was on fire and eventually blew up, but it made it to target while the other two seemed undamaged. in larger battles left behind to target aircraft or used to suicide up close to the base. i figure galaxies will be more usefull in the larger battles and overkill in smaller. but what the hell do i know. will there be such things as smaller battles lol? also i dont see the sunder doing much in defensive rolls. other than just sitting their maybe shooting aircraft if its covered well.

i can also see some players using it as a replacement for biggies for the time being if they can get one to move and turn well enough.


You mentioned the sunderer as part of a defense. I really dont see the sundy being very capable in support of a base defense. Beta will tell but being part of a static defense kind of cripples all the best things a sunderer can do.

[Reaction]

The Stryker can mount the same cannon as the Abrams. I've already clearly outlined the Sunderer and Lightning both fill different roles that the Stryker fills both of.

Now can we please get past the "Is it similar or not?" part and on to the "Any ideas about combat doctrine?" part?

i don't care either way but I suggest you research it more because what you wrote is incorrect. Since you want to be an ass about it.

[Gugabalog]

i don't care either way but I suggest you research it more because what you wrote is incorrect. Since you want to be an ass about it.

How was I an ass? People fixated on a technical error and not on the subject of discussion.

[Littleman]

I always thought it was called the bang bus because anyone who gets inside gets F'd.

Pretty much, it was a rolling tomb.

Of course it got better in PS1, but most people still prefer a galaxy for their transport -> deployment needs.

The sunderer in PS2 will have to be THE most heavily armored beast in the field for it to be a better choice over the galaxy at SOMETHING.

Of course, now that we can drive vehicles in structures, unlike the galaxy, it can deploy a squad inside a tower/base hangar, and I think even deploy a smoke screen(? Not sure) to cover the disembarking infantry. Not that the plethora of mounted armaments weren't already enough of a discouragement to the defense sticking around.

[Gugabalog]

I don't think 2 CROWS style machineguns are a significant threat to a cohesize squad or 2 (10-20 players) Smoke screen would definitely make sense/be good for it though.

[Blackwolf]

Pretty much, it was a rolling tomb.

Of course it got better in PS1, but most people still prefer a galaxy for their transport -> deployment needs.

The sunderer in PS2 will have to be THE most heavily armored beast in the field for it to be a better choice over the galaxy at SOMETHING.

Of course, now that we can drive vehicles in structures, unlike the galaxy, it can deploy a squad inside a tower/base hangar, and I think even deploy a smoke screen(? Not sure) to cover the disembarking infantry. Not that the plethora of mounted armaments weren't already enough of a discouragement to the defense sticking around.

Deploying 8 troops and 2 MAX suits made it dangerous enough. PS1 didn't have the pop levels for creative thinking to shape the battlefield though, they pretty much used BB to assault the front or back door and nothing else. The battles were fairly static and repetitive because of world design and lack of interest in the game itself. Hoping PS2 changes these things drastically.

[RovingDeath]

Hopefully the 'Sundy has softer suspension than the MRAP. IEDs are not the primary reason for wearing your helmet in there =P

[JesNC]

It does have a smokescreen ability, as well as different weapon options (I've seen at least 2: HMG and GL).

Also, it features more hp than a tank and the ability to mount a vehicle repair/rearm module.

It's a heavy APC/linebreaker and should be used as such. Overwhelming firepower isn't the point of this vehicle, it is to get people somewhere and give them the ability to stay there for an extended amount of time.

More discussion on the sunderer here (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=44455)

[Blackwolf]

It does have a smokescreen ability, as well as different weapon options (I've seen at least 2: HMG and GL).

Also, it features more hp than a tank and the ability to mount a vehicle repair/rearm module.

It's a heavy APC/linebreaker and should be used as such. Overwhelming firepower isn't the point of this vehicle, it is to get people somewhere and give them the ability to stay there for an extended amount of time.

Nice so it will have uses on defense as well as offense. And possibly ressuply position in conjunction with a Galaxy spawn point, though a Lodestar might be able to produce vehicles in the field and allow for repair/rearm that the old Lodestar had.

[Gugabalog]

It does have a smokescreen ability, as well as different weapon options (I've seen at least 2: HMG and GL).

Also, it features more hp than a tank and the ability to mount a vehicle repair/rearm module.

It's a heavy APC/linebreaker and should be used as such. Overwhelming firepower isn't the point of this vehicle, it is to get people somewhere and give them the ability to stay there for an extended amount of time.

Exactly. So many keep saying it will be able to supress forces inside bays. It may contribute, but suppress a bunch of zerg? I doubt it.

[Blackwolf]

Exactly. So many keep saying it will be able to supress forces inside bays. It may contribute, but suppress a bunch of zerg? I doubt it.

Grenade Launchers would suppress pretty well.

[Gugabalog]

Possibly.

[Ertwin]

You mentioned the sunderer as part of a defense. I really dont see the sundy being very capable in support of a base defense. Beta will tell but being part of a static defense kind of cripples all the best things a sunderer can do.

On the defensive front, It can repair any defensive vehicles, and I think resupply them. If it resupplies troops too that would be even better, as they can stay on the front line of defense without having to keep going back for ammo.

Gugabalog, have you seen the mana turret in action? One of those could put a noticeable dent in a zerg. The sundie will have at least 2 probably larger turrets, and much more health. It will be excellent at slowing/stopping a foot zerg. Especially with more than 1.

[Gugabalog]

Now that you put it that way, it's like having a rolling piece of cover+supply terminal defended by 2 engineer turrets without vunerable gunners.

[Ertwin]

Well as I said, we don't know if it resupplies the troops, or if it repairs MAXes but even if it doesn't it's still a very useful defensive tool. Get a bunch of those, and you have an impromptu wall that heals itself (I believe they confirmed that sundies can heal each other)

[Gugabalog]

It's already been confirmed to be a resupply point.

I hadn't heard the healing bit...neato...

Anyone getting visions of old timey cowboys and indians scenes with the impromptu wagon forts being replaced by sunderer forts?

[Ertwin]

Unless someone's been spiking my food, I'm pretty sure that they said Sundies were going to heal vehicles. No idea if that includes MAX suits though.

[Graf]

Even if they don't, the sunderers could just hold a squad of engineers to help with repairs.

[Gugabalog]

Was it this thread or another one that I talked about there being a box fortification of sunderers?

[Piper]

Was it this thread or another one that I talked about there being a box fortification of sunderers?

We used to use the gang-bang-bus as makeshift blockage in the gaps in walls in bases in PS1. It wasn't much good for anything else but that and soaking up CE on the way in for an ANT run. The Sunderer variants they later patched on the other hand were a lot of fun.

Anyway. It was quite easy, park up two, drop the third from the back of a Lodestar on the top of them. Ta-da Sunderer pyramid. If you were feeling particularly bored you could stick a load of boomers around the back of them for a laugh. Just to get a very cheap, if funny, kill from the first grunt to use them as cover with an EMP 'nade. :)

[Gugabalog]

I think they could have real value as barricades in the canyons on Indar

[Piper]

I think they could have real value as barricades in the canyons on Indar

Perhaps, but given that everything else in game (cover wise) appears to be indestructible I'd rather hide behind something that AV can't lock on and exploderate. :p

Without the fifteen minutes of thumb twiddling to hack an empty base I wonder if we'll come up with some of the silly'er things we did in PS1 quite so quickly.

There is of course the infamous ANT-bomb. They would explode very violently (more than your average terminal vehicle) near the start, but it got pulled when people started using them as suicide attacks and just dropping them out of the back of Galaxies. :rolleyes:

There was a bizarre event in PS1 where they started stripping out certs from the game, can't remember what it was about, don't think it was the "Bending" (don't ask) but something else. But with so little left to actually play with I remember my friend-fit decided we should start pulling Lodestars and Galaxies and using them as er...."artillery". It worked oddly well with so few other AoE weapons on the field by that point. :p

[Blackwolf]

We used to use the gang-bang-bus as makeshift blockage in the gaps in walls in bases in PS1. It wasn't much good for anything else but that and soaking up CE on the way in for an ANT run. The Sunderer variants they later patched on the other hand were a lot of fun.

Anyway. It was quite easy, park up two, drop the third from the back of a Lodestar on the top of them. Ta-da Sunderer pyramid. If you were feeling particularly bored you could stick a load of boomers around the back of them for a laugh. Just to get a very cheap, if funny, kill from the first grunt to use them as cover with an EMP 'nade. :)

Sunderer variants? Is that some new thing? I know Deliverers had variants but I thought the Sunderer didn't have a variant, just a huge remake that added 4 more guns, a horn, and an EMP blast.

[Piper]

Sunderer variants? Is that some new thing? I know Deliverers had variants but I thought the Sunderer didn't have a variant, just a huge remake that added 4 more guns, a horn, and an EMP blast.


Oops, that's what five years away does for you. Yup, meant the Deliverer variants. My goof. :doh:

Did particularly enjoy stealing the TR variant, whose name also escapes me, the TR got mostly fun vehicles, but nothing compared to the version of the er...er...oh crud...er...Thresher (phew) that could stick to huge hill inclines. That thing, brief though it's patch life was, was insanely fun.

[Timealude]

I think they could have real value as barricades in the canyons on Indar

that will all depend on how armored they are. if they are as soft as the tanks have been i dont think they will be very good barricades.

[Blackwolf]

Oops, that's what five years away does for you. Yup, meant the Deliverer variants. My goof. :doh:

Did particularly enjoy stealing the TR variant, whose name also escapes me, the TR got mostly fun vehicles, but nothing compared to the version of the er...er...oh crud...er...Thresher (phew) that could stick to huge hill inclines. That thing, brief though it's patch life was, was insanely fun.

Raider is the TR variant. Aurora is the VS and Thunderer is the NC. :D I'm based on memory too, probably older then yours. Which is why I have to ask, because god knows how much has changed. For example I did not know that you could now do barrel roles in PS1 with a key press.

that will all depend on how armored they are. if they are as soft as the tanks have been i dont think they will be very good barricades.

The wreckage will survive a bit after the Sunderers are destroyed too.

[Gugabalog]

The wreckage will survive a bit after the Sunderers are destroyed too.

For all of thirty seconds as is unfortunately. (As stated by higby in a stream)

[Ertwin]

Sundies will probably be less useful as walls if the directional armour is the same as a tank.

They have to have good front armour for their primary breaching purpose, but if they have weaker side armour, they won't be as effective as a mobile barricade.

[Marinealver]

The current PS1 sundeer was definatly that on steroids with the whole EMP thing and through shield mod gate crashing.

This sundeer is more like a loadstar on wheels and no cargo bay. It was going to be an uncloaked AMS with guns.