Gore Pack Idea

[Masterr]

I like Gore, some people don't care for gore. SOE wants to keep the rating low to make the game available for the most players possible. However, for the adults, who would be interested in purchasing a client-based gore pack? I would. Gears of War had this option, you shoot someone in the face, their head explodes, but on their screen, they just fall over. Yes its impractical, yes blood doesnt spray like that irl but, it makes kills more satisfying. Icing on top of the cake.

Obviously this doesnt really apply to vehicles, but I think when people hit someone with a tank shell, they shouldnt look like they are sleeping on the floor, bits and pieces should just be everywhere.....or just a blood stain on the floor, lol.

So....client-based gore pack available with station cash....if it's released down the line, in a year or two...would you get it?

[Sephirex]

Not something that falls in my tastes.

But to be honest, it's not a bad monetization idea.

Probably won't happen though. SOE's never really been into that kind of mature content.

[dafuq]

no..

[Masterr]

Not something that falls in my tastes.

But to be honest, it's not a bad monetization idea.

exactly. if u dont want gore, dont get it, but those who do...could spend some station cash for it. again this is like after the game releases and the team goes on vacation, lol.

[Neurotoxin]

I thought this had something to do with the late Gore Vidal.

Maybe this would be something we see later on, maybe not. I know it would be pointless in terms of the Chinese market, gore and decapitation and such are not allowed in games there IIRC.

There is a lot of other stuff I want in the game before I'd want this. For the same time and effort to add a cool blood and gore system, they could feasibly put in vehicle enter / exit animations, or at least have made a lot of progress into it.

[Flaropri]

The problems:

1. It would likely need to be nation specific, as some nations have strict regulation of gore/blood/giblets.
1a. Where applicable, it is difficult to reliably distinguish between an adult and someone who is under age on the internet. And if the XBOX has taught us anything, it is that children have no problems racking up debt on their parents credit cards.

2. Due to the nature of it, it can't be wholly client-side, since there's a need for triggers. It's not like it's a skin that can just overwrite the clients texture/model packs.

[haticK]

I like gore but based off of gameplay that I've seen I don't feel like it really needs to be in this game.

[Gugabalog]

I don't want to attack people for holding their opinions about gore, but for the sake of the financial sustainability of the game I say by all means include this as a purchasable.

But only after other things that are in demand are completed I.E. E/E animations.

[Littleman]

You'll see blood spurts where bullets impact an unshielded player character, and really that's just to show a successful hit. Beyond that, Planetside wasn't much for gritty reality of war.

And just to state for the record, being a completely free to play game that will never see copies on store shelves (not likely to, anyway) it needn't be rated by the ESRB.

F2P's don't need to be rated. The ESRB is entirely in place for brick and mortar retailers and to keep the government out of managing our video game content.

[opticalshadow]

i would love the option, but im not going to really let it bother me either way.

[Bittermen]

There is absolutely ZERO reason to have gore in games. It is uncalled for, it desesitizes kids AND adults who are playing and it is ALWAYS completely inaccurate.

If you want to see gore, join the army and volunteer for a high-risk Afghanistan mission. You will see all the gore you want.

SOE, keep it out of the damn games. It's just completely uncalled for... in a purchasable or otherwise.

Your right instead let just shoot in each-other and not show what happens.


I'm all for gore in video games. This is what happens when you shoot people. Don't fool yourself.

[Sephirex]

Your right instead let just shoot in each-other and not show what happens.


I'm all for gore in video games. This is what happens when you shoot people. Don't fool yourself.

While I don't disagree with your point, I suddenly had an image of a father coming upon children and playing cops and robbers, and pouring buckets of blood on the kids that had been 'shot', screaming "This what happens!"

The thought alone gave me the chuckles.

[Trafalgar]

So this Gore Pack... It will let you use an Al Gore skin, right?

Right?

No? :(

[Flaropri]

This is changing, it may be changed already. The ESRB is getting involved in indie games as well as F2P. Companies that are F2P or Indie that have the rating have paid to have that rating for PR.

Edit: I don't want my "F2P" to be pink damnit!

Doesn't ESRB not apply to online play anyway?

[Littleman]

This is changing, it may be changed already. The ESRB is getting involved in indie games as well as F2P. Companies that are F2P or Indie that have the rating have paid to have that rating for PR.

Edit: I don't want my "F2P" to be pink damnit!

So far I haven't found any news that this is being forced onto publishers. Let me clarify: publishers/developers that aren't required to get a rating to put their game out there through another party, like indie games through Xbox LIVE, or Steam. I know F2P's CAN be rated if the publisher wishes to do so, and yeah, it's mostly for PR, such as ads. Many parents do like to know the rating of the game they're buying for their children.

[Cosmical]

I think as far as gore goes on online games, most companies get around it by having it set as off by default. Then the customer has to make an active effort and choice to turn it on, thus negating their legal responsibility.

I dont think Planetside 2 would benefit from it much tho? The way games have changed over the passed 5 years, people would much rather see +50 than blood squirting out of someones neck. Which i must say i prefer.

Ragdoll on the other hand, is amazing. And i will worship the team is they find a way to get that to function in an MMOFPS.

[SmokinJacakal]

Great idea dont know people say things like "there's no need for" and "not important". I mean come on guys there are hood ornaments and zebra paints jobs but blood is just too far out the way LOL. I for one would give upwards of $10 for this becuase I love all the bells and whistles I can get! Hope SOE puts some thought into the this.

[Radant-J]

They actually already made a blood splatter effect for PS2 that works. Unfortunately, due to Germany's strict violence in media laws they were forced to remove them. They still exist somewhere however.

[NePaS]

but I think when people hit someone with a tank shell, they shouldnt look like they are sleeping on the floor, bits and pieces should just be everywhere.....or just a blood stain on the floor, lol.



So does that mean the medic has to collect all the bits before doing a revive?

[Symmenix]

"client side mod"

Mmmhmm. Modders, you're going to be needed soon.

[berzerkerking]

There is absolutely ZERO reason to have gore in games. It is uncalled for, it desesitizes kids AND adults who are playing and it is ALWAYS completely inaccurate.

If you want to see gore, join the army and volunteer for a high-risk Afghanistan mission. You will see all the gore you want.

SOE, keep it out of the damn games. It's just completely uncalled for... in a purchasable or otherwise.

mommy raised you to have morals didn't she:D
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24411088.jpg

[Gugabalog]

mommy raised you to have morals didn't she:D
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24411088.jpg

This. Gotta love the nanny state. /sarcasm

[Masterr]

So does that mean the medic has to collect all the bits before doing a revive?

LOL! point taken good sir.


@ the some other ppls:

I understand YOUR personal cries against gore in games and thats all good for you. However, some people could pay money to have gore in-game. Of course if thats technically possible. Why would you advocate to deny SOE potential money? Kind of screwed up of you guys IMO, especially since its not a P2W type of deal. If you don't want gore, than dont buy the pack, simple.

As for the chinese market, I guess have this pack region specific.

As for enter/exit animations, if SOE just gives that to you, they arent benefiting much from that. Those animations would be pain staking work for them to pull it off at the AAA quality they would want to do it at. I would rather have them keep the "hold E for this amount of time to get in" that they seem to have now. If they do put in the work for the animations, i would like that to be a pack to purchase. The animation pack. Does it make you a better player? No. Does it make things more pretty and add immersion? yes. Same time to go in and out except for animation.

[SmokinJacakal]

mommy raised you to have morals didn't she:D
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24411088.jpg

I've seen that pic with about 30 different captions and they are all funny lol, but for real we dont need anyones spine ripped out but some blood or exploding head would be nice then again if my max could rip out a spine I'd cert for it :evil:

[Masterr]

I've seen that pic with about 30 different captions and they are all funny lol, but for real we dont need anyones spine ripped out but some blood or exploding head would be nice then again if my max could rip out a spine I'd cert for it :evil:

Aliens vs Predator(2010)- My favorite trophy kill :) - YouTube

[AzureWatcher]

Total War did it with Shogun II. So I see no reason to keep it out.

I probably wouldn't get it, but I know many people who would.

[SmokinJacakal]

Aliens vs Predator(2010)- My favorite trophy kill :) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znSIMt4UYY)

Awesome, where's my wallet? I bet you googled that video so fast after seeing my comment lol But honestly things like that really bring me into the game like on BF3 if someone takes my tag I'd write their damn name down cause they were losing their's at least twice and getting a teabag or two:bouncy:

[Greytusk]

You have my vote for a Gore Pack. New hit boxes? Sounds like blowing off limbs could be an option. I'm in.

[Masterr]

Awesome, where's my wallet? I bet you googled that video so fast after seeing my comment lol But honestly things like that really bring me into the game like on BF3 if someone takes my tag I'd write their damn name down cause they were losing their's at least twice and getting a teabag or two:bouncy:

no, i played the game. so i knew exactly where to look. :p

You have my vote for a Gore Pack. New hit boxes? Sounds like blowing off limbs could be an option. I'm in.

thats true, there are hitboxes now...at least for headshots. Blowing off limbs...now thats something, but i have SHEER doubts that'll be implemented. This game has so much already implemented, lol. Prepare your hard drives gentlemen, your gonna be raped of some GB's when this game gets downloaded, lol.

[JHendy]

While I don't disagree with your point, I suddenly had an image of a father coming upon children and playing cops and robbers, and pouring buckets of blood on the kids that had been 'shot', screaming "This what happens!"

The thought alone gave me the chuckles.

Are you also imagining that being screamed in the voice of Joe from Family Guy?

Please tell me yes.

[Gugabalog]

Are you also imagining that being screamed in the voice of Joe from Family Guy?

Please tell me yes.

I am now XD

[RageMasterUK]

I am 100% pro choice. Its not a necessity for me to enjoy the game, but I would buy it if the price was reasonable.

[Trip]

There is absolutely ZERO reason to have gore in games. It is uncalled for, it desesitizes kids AND adults who are playing and it is ALWAYS completely inaccurate.

If you want to see gore, join the army and volunteer for a high-risk Afghanistan mission. You will see all the gore you want.

SOE, keep it out of the damn games. It's just completely uncalled for... in a purchasable or otherwise.

maybe we should remove death and killing from the game too, dont want the kids getting desensitized. We should remove guns too, guns can be dangerous and we dont want the kids thinking that theyre toys. While im at it, travel to other planets is super dangerous, you need all sorts of safety measures, training, special equipment and experts to pull that off successfully. So...you know....for the kids, lets remove that. The new setting should be Wisconsin, but no cheese, because if you eat to much cheese you raise your cholesterol and increase your risk of heart disease. Heart disease is serious business. Alright, that about takes care of the game i think, its ready for the children of america to play.

new from SOE "sit on a lawn chair in wisconsin...in the shade... with sunscreen on...cause skin cancer: the game"

as for the gore pack, i think thats a fine idea. If enough people want it, then do it up.

[Badjuju]

There is absolutely ZERO reason to have gore in games. It is uncalled for, it desesitizes kids AND adults who are playing and it is ALWAYS completely inaccurate.

If you want to see gore, join the army and volunteer for a high-risk Afghanistan mission. You will see all the gore you want.

SOE, keep it out of the damn games. It's just completely uncalled for... in a purchasable or otherwise.

Haha get out of here with the desensitized BS. People can distinguish between RL and a game, especially when gore is never realistic. There is no substitute for experiencing death/injury in real life. They have done many studies that show violent/gory video games do not effect peoples up-bringing if they are raised in a normal environment. I am an ex marine, have watched a plethora of very violent movies, played violent video games, and I still felt awful for shooting a bird with a BB gun a while back. I haven't been desensitized in slightest. If being in the military does anything, it makes you more sensitive to fucked up shit, you just learn how to deal with it better. When dealing with a game, people do not associate in game events with what they would do in RL, or you would have to say just shooting some one in a game desensitizes people. I don't feel the need for gore in the game, but if the developers wanted to do it and people wanted to pay for it, then that would be their choice.

[ArmedZealot]

I'd pay for it.

There is absolutely ZERO reason to have gore in games. It is uncalled for, it desesitizes kids AND adults who are playing and it is ALWAYS completely inaccurate.

If you want to see gore, join the army and volunteer for a high-risk Afghanistan mission. You will see all the gore you want.

SOE, keep it out of the damn games. It's just completely uncalled for... in a purchasable or otherwise.

Woah.

[Gugabalog]

Haha get out of here with the desensitized BS. People can distinguish between RL and a game, especially when gore is never realistic. There is no substitute for experiencing death/injury in real life. They have done many studies that show violent/gory video games do not effect peoples up-bringing if they are raised in a normal environment. I am an ex marine, have watched a plethora of very violent movies, played violent video games, and I still felt awful for shooting a bird with a BB gun a while back. I haven't been desensitized in slightest. If being in the military does anything, it makes you more sensitive to fucked up shit, you just learn how to deal with it better. When dealing with a game, people do not associate in game events with what they would do in RL, or you would have to say just shooting some one in a game desensitizes people. I don't feel the need for gore in the game, but if the developers wanted to do it and people wanted to pay for it, then that would be their choice.

I agree. The only people that fail to distinguish the difference are either infantile, not even child like, in mentality or using it as an excuse.

[Sledgecrushr]

Im a big 40k fan so when the game Space Marine came out I pre ordered. Now SM is a bloody game, there were times it was literally raining blood and body parts. Now we dont have to go that far with a gore pack but yeah I would definitely buy.
+1 for gore pack

[AzureWatcher]

Only if Vanu laser beams left holes in the bodies instead of causing blood to spray out.

That would be really cool.

[sumo]

no need. the only gore pack i ever used was in soldier of fortune, and i wasn't too old back then.

[Timealude]

I think it would be hard to get it rated as a T game with gore in it, and im sure thats what they are aiming for with this game.

[opticalshadow]

i dont think gore desenstizes people, i mean we had a dark ages, we had ww2, we have the news.

if people on this planet have not yet gotten use to death and gore by now, i doubt a video game is going to do us any worse.

[IHateMMOs]

No, comon, were not 11 year old Gears Of War junkies.

[Flaropri]

i dont think gore desenstizes people, i mean we had a dark ages, we had ww2, we have the news.

Yes, because the people that went through the Dark Ages are still alive. Even the WW2 generation (especially the people involved in combat) is dying out.

A person's sensitivity to violence, a person's apathy towards it, is individual not genetic. Even if you talk to someone who's seen real violence, it isn't the same as seeing it for yourself. I mean, sure, if we were all the same people with all the same memories, sure, that would make sense but...



Video games and graphic news do desensitize people. Much like the presence of nude sunbathing can and does desensitize people to the naked bosom in those nations and cultures that embrace it. If you constantly hear about something or witness something you are less likely to be shocked by it.

I'm not saying people don't know the difference between games and reality. However, this thread is in and of itself a great example.

In this thread, people are asking to spend money to see blood and gore, and not to promote realism or increase immersion.

Think about that for a moment. Unless you're a psychopath, actual blood and gore is not attractive. People's intestines strewn about the ground is not pretty. At least not to me and most others. So why is it that people would want to see it in a game?

People are desensitized to it, even to the point asking for over-the-top gore and blood to get a "satisfying feeling." Because apparently shooting them until they fall over just isn't satisfying. It isn't special.



All that said, I am not against it... I would never waste perfectly good money on gratuitous gore, but I do believe that if people really want to fund it, that's there's choice... however sad it makes me that people would make that decision.

[Justaman]

I don't want to attack people for holding their opinions about gore, but for the sake of the financial sustainability of the game I say by all means include this as a purchasable.

But only after other things that are in demand are completed I.E. E/E animations.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


I agree.

[Tsunami]

lol cert into the gore tree to unlock more gruesome gore....

[Sturmhardt]

I would buy it but I dont think it'll happen. Would be funny though :)

[Deckura]

Yes, because the people that went through the Dark Ages are still alive. Even the WW2 generation (especially the people involved in combat) is dying out.

A person's sensitivity to violence, a person's apathy towards it, is individual not genetic. Even if you talk to someone who's seen real violence, it isn't the same as seeing it for yourself. I mean, sure, if we were all the same people with all the same memories, sure, that would make sense but...



Video games and graphic news do desensitize people. Much like the presence of nude sunbathing can and does desensitize people to the naked bosom in those nations and cultures that embrace it. If you constantly hear about something or witness something you are less likely to be shocked by it.

I'm not saying people don't know the difference between games and reality. However, this thread is in and of itself a great example.

In this thread, people are asking to spend money to see blood and gore, and not to promote realism or increase immersion.

Think about that for a moment. Unless you're a psychopath, actual blood and gore is not attractive. People's intestines strewn about the ground is not pretty. At least not to me and most others. So why is it that people would want to see it in a game?

People are desensitized to it, even to the point asking for over-the-top gore and blood to get a "satisfying feeling." Because apparently shooting them until they fall over just isn't satisfying. It isn't special.



All that said, I am not against it... I would never waste perfectly good money on gratuitous gore, but I do believe that if people really want to fund it, that's there's choice... however sad it makes me that people would make that decision.




Video game violence does not desensitize people. I guarantee you that if you put a gamer who plays violent video games in a room with a dead body, they will feel incredibly uneasy, if not terrified. Your example about the nudist only translates to violence desensitization if the person is actually witnessing gore first-hand, and not through an entertainment medium. You take a guy who's never seen a woman naked in real life but is obsessed with porn, and put him in a room with a nude model, I can promise you it will still excite him.

Get a headshot with a sniper rifle in Gears of War and you'll understand what makes it satisfying. It just feels good to see the person you shot at get fucked up. Makes the kill more visceral. It provides those "OH SHIT" moments.

[Joe]

I love some gore :rofl:

[SixShooter]

So this thread led me on an interesting journey through my past which ended up with me trying to find my favorite quote from Jello Biafra in regards to Tipper Gore (Al Gore's wife) and the PMRC where Jello said "If John Denver tells you that you've got your head up you ass, don't you probably have your head up your ass". Either way, the PMRC probably did more to help record sales than anything the record companies ever could have done.

Parental Advisory (digital mixtape) - YouTube

So back on topic..

I grew up on Pong, Pac Man and Space Invaders (yes I'm an old basterd). When crazy shit like Doom and Quake started happening I was thrilled. Resident Evil and Silent Hill carried on the tradition of blood, gore and evil and I loved it.

I still dig that kind of shit in games but there are so many games that fuck it up and do it wrong and even more that just shouldn't have it.

Planetside is one of those games that totally doesn't need it and should not have it. I say this as a fan of gory movies, gory video games, fucked up gory literature and all things inbetween.

There is a time and place for that kind of stuff and PS2 is neither the time nor the place. If I want to play a game with that kind of element I will go play that other game. I will play PS2 to experience the Planetside universe gameplay and all things can exist on their own.

[Tactical Pony]

I gotta agree with deckura on this one, saying someone that plays video games is desensitized to real gore through his viewing of fake gore is not a proper parallel to the person who is desensitized to real boobs by viewing real boobs.

not to mention violence and sexuality are very different experiences.

I find comments like those made by duke... irksome... I am a big propogator of freedom, not someone who claims it just to be popular, I don't believe in "freedom to be like me."

Duke, you don't like gore in your games, that's fine. Me? I like to experience everything availiable to me, aka get my money's worth, but dont like gore enough to justify spending money on it alone.

So I agree with you in the sense that I wouldn't get gore in this game, but don't agree with imploring SOE to not put a pack out because I think it's cool to choose for others when it goes along with my vision of "the greater good"

If it were me, I would put out a purchasable gore pack, it is money and it wont effect the ESRB rating of the release game, but in the end that is going to be SOE's choice.

as far as it being more realistic... no, as a Marine (not an ex-marine, what the **** is that, son! you're lucky I dont condition 1 knife hand you in your daggone grape!) I can tell you that video game gore is unrealistic for the most part.

what happens in the real, is that when you shoot people, they fall down, and if you put a bullet through a liver/kidney/heart/artery you may see blood run out from under them. If you shoot them anywhere in the head you will see blood run out from underneath it at a much faster rate than the other shots, cept maybe a graze vs an artery shot in the thigh, this is due to the fact that there is less cavity space for the blood to drain into and thus more will come out of the hole. wounds to the head bleed alot, obvious to anyone that has ever bumped it. Wounds in the chest area will drain out of a hole eventually, but squirting is mostly contained within the chest/abdominal cavity, and would not cause blood to come out much faster than one would expect blood to come out of a tiny little bullet hole.

the scenarios one imagines where a person is sawed in half by bullets, or a mortar shell lands right on their head and they explode into chunks in all directions, or a pressurized fountain comes out of the hole, are the exception, not the rule, I never saw that. That stuff is movie/VG.

[Mox]

I dont think gore is the most important feature for ps2. But it is a bettter idea than adding more silly camo options. I think exactly this kind of stuff can be sold in a f2p game for good money without going p2w. Taking care of child protection laws is an other issue but can be done.

[Ruffdog]

Vote no.
Besides there's no blood in this universe. Players are made of Nanites didn't you hear?

[Novice bot]

Vote no.
Besides there's no blood in this universe. Players are made of Nanites didn't you hear?

Imagine Nanites spewing all over when you shoot someones head off.

That's real gore, right there.

[maddoggg]

Hell yes to this idea,i would pay for it!
Planetside 2 extreme gore edition!!! :evil:

[RageMasterUK]

Upon careful consideration I think when players get shot they should hemmorage nanites instead. The nanites should be red. =D

People uncomfortable with gore should'nt buy a gore pack. But please, just speak for yourself and dont try and dissuade SOE from putting it in. You dont like gore, dont get it.

I thought about this for a moment...

Think about that for a moment. Unless you're a psychopath, actual blood and gore is not attractive. People's intestines strewn about the ground is not pretty. At least not to me and most others. So why is it that people would want to see it in a game?

O. M. G. WAR isnt attractive or pretty m8. So why are we here looking forward to a war game? ESCAPISM. The reason you, I, everyone on this damn forum plays games like this is because we want to have this experience without being directly connected and affected by it, and without it affecting other folks. Similarly want to see digital gore because we know it exists in context but we dont really want to see it IRL. Its not because we're all sadists. We're just curious to see a full representation of our simulated experience...

There are people who participate in and support the bombing and shooting of people in real life. If people have a problem with gore they should start by campaining against their countries military actions, and not by stopping a few red pixels on other peoples monitors.

-RageMasterUK

[maddoggg]

Upon careful consideration I think when players get shot they should hemmorage nanites instead. The nanites should be red. =D

People uncomfortable with gore should'nt buy a gore pack. But please, just speak for yourself and dont try and dissuade SOE from putting it in. You dont like gore, dont get it.

I thought about this for a moment...



O. M. G. WAR isnt attractive or pretty m8. So why are we here looking forward to a war game? ESCAPISM. The reason you, I, everyone on this damn forum plays games like this is because we want to have this experience without being directly connected and affected by it, and without it affecting other folks. Similarly want to see digital gore because we know it exists in context but we dont really want to see it IRL. Its not because we're all sadists. We're just curious to see a full representation of our simulated experience...

There are people who participate in and support the bombing and shooting of people in real life. If people have a problem with gore they should start by campaining against their countries military actions, and not by stopping a few red pixels on other peoples monitors.

-RageMasterUK

Well said :)

[MCYRook]

Yes its impractical, yes blood doesnt spray like that irl but, it makes kills more satisfying.
I guess it does, if you're 15 years old. :rolleyes:

Don't underestimate the amount of dev work that has to go into this if you want it to look "satisfying". And they can't offer it to all of their playerbase either, due to national restrictions.

To me, this is one of those "meh, if they have totally run out of ideas about what to add to the game, they can go forward with this for all I care" suggestions. About on par with player housing. :p

[Gugabalog]

I personally think ratings agencies can go out the window. Especially considering how inconsistent and lacking in transparency they are.

On Topic: I don't see why a game that consists solely of online interaction can be rated, much less an *optional* addition for that same nigh unrateable content.

[Rat]

I doubt enough people would buy the gore pack to make the developement of the package cost effective.

[Gugabalog]

Upon careful consideration I think when players get shot they should hemmorage nanites instead. The nanites should be red. =D

People uncomfortable with gore should'nt buy a gore pack. But please, just speak for yourself and dont try and dissuade SOE from putting it in. You dont like gore, dont get it.

I thought about this for a moment...

Think about that for a moment. Unless you're a psychopath, actual blood and gore is not attractive. People's intestines strewn about the ground is not pretty. At least not to me and most others. So why is it that people would want to see it in a game?
O. M. G. WAR isnt attractive or pretty m8. So why are we here looking forward to a war game? ESCAPISM. The reason you, I, everyone on this damn forum plays games like this is because we want to have this experience without being directly connected and affected by it, and without it affecting other folks. Similarly want to see digital gore because we know it exists in context but we dont really want to see it IRL. Its not because we're all sadists. We're just curious to see a full representation of our simulated experience...

There are people who participate in and support the bombing and shooting of people in real life. If people have a problem with gore they should start by campaining against their countries military actions, and not by stopping a few red pixels on other peoples monitors.

-RageMasterUK

Players are assembled by nanites not made up of them.

I doubt enough people would buy the gore pack to make the developement of the package cost effective.

Idk how the TW:S2 gore pack did but look up it's sales statistics to see if you think this is viable.

[Crator]

Players are assembled by nanites not made up of them.

Ha, idea for medium gore setting then? ;)

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I see the monetisation aspect of this... but I still think it's stupid. Gore? Really? It adds nothing of value.

[Gugabalog]

It makes kills more satisfying and adds an over the top hollywoodesque action film feel to the game.

(I hate hollywood's guts with my whole being, but some people think the stuff that place spits out is fun so why not?)

[opticalshadow]

I see the monetisation aspect of this... but I still think it's stupid. Gore? Really? It adds nothing of value.

neither do giraffe pants, but if someone will drop 5 bucks to wear teh pants, then theres the value

if the gore pack could sell, could make profits, and it wouldnt effect anyoens game but the user who bought it, it would have 0 negative value.


and rating systems are stupid anyways. games with "deathmatch" game mode, my only objective is to brutally murder other people for no reason, is ok, but i cant say ass without it being censored?

[Sturmhardt]

I just want to point out something that is very important to me: I would rather have them develop a gorepack than playerhousing or the like. Playerhousing and stuff like that is gay, that shit belongs in a world like WoW, not in some badass FPS.
"Oh look what a nice couch that dude has!" ugh..... plz no :/

[opticalshadow]

I just want to point out something that is very important to me: I would rather have them develop a gorepack than playerhousing or the like. Playerhousing and stuff like that is gay, that shit belongs in a world like WoW, not in some badass FPS.
"Oh look what a nice couch that dude has!" ugh..... plz no :/


do keep in mind that the type of player housing in ps2 is being looked at to be player built and owned bases. not just decoration.

[Sturmhardt]

do keep in mind that the type of player housing in ps2 is being looked at to be player built and owned bases. not just decoration.

Yes and I hope they keep it that way... sometimes the transition is fluid. I hope they keep it clean and dont "overfeature" the game with stuff like that. Right now the existing bases are well distributed and fit to the surrounding areas.... I dont think its such a great idea to give every dude with a creditcard the possibility to build his base on top of the next hill.... might get stupid if everyone wants to do it. I know, offtopic, but somehow nobody seems to worry about stuff like that.

[opticalshadow]

Yes and I hope they keep it that way... sometimes the transition is fluid. I hope they keep it clean and dont "overfeature" the game with stuff like that. Right now the existing bases are well distributed and fit to the surrounding areas.... I dont think its such a great idea to give every dude with a creditcard the possibility to build his base on top of the next hill.... might get stupid if everyone wants to do it. I know, offtopic, but somehow nobody seems to worry about stuff like that.

in one of the AGN's i think july's. higby tossed out that player bases will have their own landmass, it wont be apart of the normal ones. this is why i think it will follow a darkfall method, we will have limited area for it, and it makes the bases worth captureing, it makes the gameplay emergent, and if its its own landmass, it keeps it out of the rest of the game (so it gives the big outfits a playground to beat each otehr up on)

[Sturmhardt]

in one of the AGN's i think july's. higby tossed out that player bases will have their own landmass, it wont be apart of the normal ones. this is why i think it will follow a darkfall method, we will have limited area for it, and it makes the bases worth captureing, it makes the gameplay emergent, and if its its own landmass, it keeps it out of the rest of the game (so it gives the big outfits a playground to beat each otehr up on)

That doesnt sound too bad, I think I read your post in the other thread regarding this matter. Lets see how they are gonna implement it...

[Masterr]

I think it would be hard to get it rated as a T game with gore in it, and im sure thats what they are aiming for with this game.

I guess have the "state your age" thing before you purchase the gore pack and have w/e legal stuff that would make SOE not binding to the pack or w/e they need to do for the CORE GAME to be rated T. If that's the case, they rating won't be effected and everyone can go about their day :P

So this thread led me on an interesting journey through my past which ended up with me trying to find my favorite quote from Jello Biafra in regards to Tipper Gore (Al Gore's wife) and the PMRC where Jello said "If John Denver tells you that you've got your head up you ass, don't you probably have your head up your ass". Either way, the PMRC probably did more to help record sales than anything the record companies ever could have done.

Parental Advisory (digital mixtape) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxbPjuPzuyA)

So back on topic..

I grew up on Pong, Pac Man and Space Invaders (yes I'm an old basterd). When crazy shit like Doom and Quake started happening I was thrilled. Resident Evil and Silent Hill carried on the tradition of blood, gore and evil and I loved it.

I still dig that kind of shit in games but there are so many games that fuck it up and do it wrong and even more that just shouldn't have it.

Planetside is one of those games that totally doesn't need it and should not have it. I say this as a fan of gory movies, gory video games, fucked up gory literature and all things inbetween.

There is a time and place for that kind of stuff and PS2 is neither the time nor the place. If I want to play a game with that kind of element I will go play that other game. I will play PS2 to experience the Planetside universe gameplay and all things can exist on their own.

Then don't buy the gore pack.

[Masterr]

Upon careful consideration I think when players get shot they should hemmorage nanites instead. The nanites should be red. =D

People uncomfortable with gore should'nt buy a gore pack. But please, just speak for yourself and dont try and dissuade SOE from putting it in. You dont like gore, dont get it.

I thought about this for a moment...



O. M. G. WAR isnt attractive or pretty m8. So why are we here looking forward to a war game? ESCAPISM. The reason you, I, everyone on this damn forum plays games like this is because we want to have this experience without being directly connected and affected by it, and without it affecting other folks. Similarly want to see digital gore because we know it exists in context but we dont really want to see it IRL. Its not because we're all sadists. We're just curious to see a full representation of our simulated experience...

There are people who participate in and support the bombing and shooting of people in real life. If people have a problem with gore they should start by campaining against their countries military actions, and not by stopping a few red pixels on other peoples monitors.

-RageMasterUK

i like u.

No way this game will or should have gore. Being F2P they cannot limit their audience. Let me ask you. Would you not play the game if it had gore? hell no. Would you not play or not be allowed to play the game if it had gore? hell yes. And no way is it worth developer time to construct graphics models of brain splatters and such for a small amount of people. Get over it

obviously didnt read the OP.

I see the monetisation aspect of this... but I still think it's stupid. Gore? Really? It adds nothing of value.

and hood ornaments/skins do?

[Masterr]

I personally think ratings agencies can go out the window. Especially considering how inconsistent and lacking in transparency they are.

On Topic: I don't see why a game that consists solely of online interaction can be rated, much less an *optional* addition for that same nigh unrateable content.

i have to agree with you. No gore, but you got kids saying that your mom sucked their **** and about sodomy and crap. But, NO, the game can't have blood....

Yes I did. Optionally? So we gonna have to pay some art devs and level programmers to make deterministic game behavior to display or not display gore based on a few people who care to see such shit? They have far more pressing things to concern themselves with.

talking about later down the road, post release, when they are adding content basically. why limit SOE's ability to make money, if there is a demand.....make it happen.

[Gugabalog]

Why can't an OPTIONAL gore pack be run clientside?

[Masterr]

Why can't an OPTIONAL gore pack be run clientside?

well my idea is a gore pack, purchased by you, that runs client-side. with it being optional, the games ratings will be unfavorable to SOE and get rated M or something. Black Light Retribution has heads exploding but SOE does not want to limit its client base. However if you purchase a "gore add-on", it gives SOE money, its a cosmetic/feature thing (no p2w), and if there is a procedure (put ur birth date, ect.) they could probably still have a rated T game.

[Gugabalog]

well my idea is a gore pack, purchased by you, that runs client-side. with it being optional, the games ratings will be unfavorable to SOE and get rated M or something. Black Light Retribution has heads exploding but SOE does not want to limit its client base. However if you purchase a "gore add-on", it gives SOE money, its a cosmetic/feature thing (no p2w), and if there is a procedure (put ur birth date, ect.) they could probably still have a rated T game.

Exactly! So many nanny-state people here.

[berzerkerking]

Aliens vs Predator(2010)- My favorite trophy kill :) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znSIMt4UYY)

It's a paid option:mad: I'm not even going to buy it if it's made but i don't see any reason why not.:confused:

[Syphus]

There is absolutely ZERO reason to have gore in games. It is uncalled for, it desesitizes kids AND adults who are playing and it is ALWAYS completely inaccurate.

If you want to see gore, join the army and volunteer for a high-risk Afghanistan mission. You will see all the gore you want.

SOE, keep it out of the damn games. It's just completely uncalled for... in a purchasable or otherwise.

Says the Duke Nukem guy...not sure if I can handle the irony.

[Drakkonan]

I'm typically a fan of this method of increasing immersion, but I really don't think it has a place in this game. Even as a cash-shop option, something like gore requires too much work to not go into the full game for everyone to experience. Hell, the engine might not even support it efficiently enough to make it feasible to implement.

[Gugabalog]

That would be apart of it being client side wouldn't it? (I don't know much about networking or coding)

[Blackwolf]

The game just doesn't need it. Such an addition would be illegal in many countries. And Kids would have zero problems getting their hands on it.

Whether or not it desensitizes them, you have to respect their parent's wishes.

I'd rather see work done towards Buggies then gore personally. There are so many other things that would benefit the game more then gore would, it's not even funny.

[Bittermen]

While I don't disagree with your point, I suddenly had an image of a father coming upon children and playing cops and robbers, and pouring buckets of blood on the kids that had been 'shot', screaming "This what happens!"

The thought alone gave me the chuckles.

good point lmao

[Graf]

SOE should do whatever makes them money. It is a company after all, and the point of owning a buisness or company is to make money. If nobody wants it, they won't make it. If it damages their client base, they won't make it. If they can makes something that will make more money they will make that instead or before a gore pack. If people want it, and it would make SOE more money then another idea, they will make it in such away that it does not damage the player base. They should do whatever makes them money, and if you don't like what they sell don't buy it.

[wasdie]

Shogun 2 Total War did it. For legal reasons, they sold it as cheap as possible but they still had to charge for it.

I don't think that SOE is going to bother with that right away, but it's something they could throw down later. For like $5, I would probably get it.

[Blackwolf]

SOE should do whatever makes them money. It is a company after all, and the point of owning a buisness or company is to make money. If nobody wants it, they won't make it. If it damages their client base, they won't make it. If they can makes something that will make more money they will make that instead or before a gore pack. If people want it, and it would make SOE more money then another idea, they will make it in such away that it does not damage the player base. They should do whatever makes them money, and if you don't like what they sell don't buy it.

Bit more complicated then that.

There are things that they could spend that time on that might not make them money but would improve game play and keep players interested thus increasing the potential for money.

Gore is something that would make them a bit of money, but it wouldn't really impact the game as a whole. Buggies would. Everyone would benefit from buggies while only a select number of people would enjoy (not benefit from) gore.

IMO gore puts too much emphasis on killing other players. Something that isn't as important in a game like PS which is geared towards unified fronts and teamwork to accomplish objectives using logistics and coordination rather then random charges into battle. It wouldn't impact the game negatively or positively, except when it comes down to developer time spent on it rather then on things that would actually impact the game itself. It becomes a money/time sink. Yes there are things in the game that are arguably the same thing, such as hood ornaments. But everyone else can see your hood ornament. No one else can see your gore. And the amount of time it takes to create a hood ornament and stick it onto a vehicle is probably limited to a couple of hours while gore (done well) could take several weeks of animation time.

[MercDT]

How would gore work in the first place with the current revive system? I mean I take it you guys are referring to dismemberment when you say gore.

Though some simple yet not crappy blood effects wouldn't really hurt the game IMO.

[opticalshadow]

Bit more complicated then that.

There are things that they could spend that time on that might not make them money but would improve game play and keep players interested thus increasing the potential for money.

Gore is something that would make them a bit of money, but it wouldn't really impact the game as a whole. Buggies would. Everyone would benefit from buggies while only a select number of people would enjoy (not benefit from) gore.



but the thing is, buggies cant be a cash shop item, or it breaks their no pay for power. gore, liek camo, which has ZERO impact or effect on gameplay, is somethign people might want to buy.

this is a F2P game, adding buggies to teh game gets people playing maybe, but it still hasnt made money, people have to want to buy something for them to make money, a cosmetic effect is just that.

skins in LoL have zero game impact, but they are why riot makes so much

[Sledgecrushr]

Im thinking gore like in cs. You see blood when you shoot someone and when you shoot someone standing against a wall you get a nice splash effect.

[Marinealver]

Can imagine achainblade assianation which results in a decapitation.

As much as I don't care if it is rated M or not, (as yhe M ratting dosn't stop 6 year olds from playing HAL0) I think the marketing strategy is to keep it as faimly friendly (if you consider the mass killings of others friendly) as possible

but I did wonder how come the CGI trailer was so gorey? I mean you saw all the blood spray from the TR in the galaxy as they got shot by the NC LA with some sort of armor shoot through rounds. That wasn't PG.

[opticalshadow]

Can imagine achainblade assianation which results in a decapitation.

As much as I don't care if it is rated M or not, (as yhe M ratting dosn't stop 6 year olds from playing HAL0) I think the marketing strategy is to keep it as faimly friendly (if you consider the mass killings of others friendly) as possible

but I did wonder how come the CGI trailer was so gorey? I mean you saw all the blood spray from the TR in the galaxy as they got shot by the NC LA with some sort of armor shoot through rounds. That wasn't PG.

because the rating systems are stupid, and a scapegoat lazy parents make about kids.

your already killing people, but no, we cant make it to life like. because being humans already doesnt do that.

[RageMasterUK]

When I said that players should hemmorage red nanites, that was a joke. Cant believe people picked me up on that and actually took me seriously.

I laughed.... HARD :D I will start putting "That was a joke" after every joke now...

Those in the non-gore group, haven't you ever seen a game which says "Online experience subject to change and is not rated"? The ratings agencies are fully aware of the fact people download stuff after they've bought the game so thats why they put that in, to cover their own back from DLC and modded content.

Someone already mentioned Shogun Total War 2 blood pack. The rating only seems to apply to gaming products at launch, and always seem to contain the above caveat if there's an online function to it. They dont want to have to go back and revisit a product and re-rate. I dont blame them.

If people dont want bloods thats fine. Some people are talking on behalf of everyone else tho. Can't you accept and accomodate for an individuals choice? The emphasis in Planetside 2 is already FIRMLY on killing other players by the way.

It would not be very difficult to stop the bloodpack appearing in other contries downloadable lists.

Blood textures may well take a week to do well, but will reach out to more people than a faction specific hood ornament, or yay buggies. There is a massive market for gory games. If you took the gore out of Gears of War franchise or Resident evil or Quake or Unreal Tournament, how many would buy it? The gore loving playerbase is right there just waiting to be unlocked. For ceirtain SOE will release PS2 without gore but you can trust that SOE have atleast considered a gore-pack as a monetization option. They are not fools.

SledgCrusher Im thinking of the gore that you're thinking of. Not gibs.... gore. Red mist on impact and splash textures on the surfaces near shot players, smearmarks on the sand for roadkills, nothing rediculously OTT like fatalities and that jazz.

Someone mentioned buggies won't be a cash item. This is true. The money SOE would make however is through the extensive cert tree and sidegraded weapons that would accompany such a buggy.

-RageMasterUK

[Gugabalog]

Oh. Sarcasm is hard to pick up on via text.

[Zerik]

Not something that falls in my tastes.

But to be honest, it's not a bad monetization idea.

Probably won't happen though. SOE's never really been into that kind of mature content.

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e177/cal1021/eq/EQ000002.jpg

Problum, officur?

[opticalshadow]

http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e177/cal1021/eq/EQ000002.jpg

Problum, officur?

lol, yeah EQ has alot of pretty mature things going on in it.

[Masterr]

Im thinking gore like in cs. You see blood when you shoot someone and when you shoot someone standing against a wall you get a nice splash effect.

I guess thats as good as we can get w/o ruining the revive system.

Can imagine achainblade assianation which results in a decapitation.

As much as I don't care if it is rated M or not, (as yhe M ratting dosn't stop 6 year olds from playing HAL0) I think the marketing strategy is to keep it as faimly friendly (if you consider the mass killings of others friendly) as possible

but I did wonder how come the CGI trailer was so gorey? I mean you saw all the blood spray from the TR in the galaxy as they got shot by the NC LA with some sort of armor shoot through rounds. That wasn't PG.

hah your right dude, didnt even think about that one.

but the thing is, buggies cant be a cash shop item, or it breaks their no pay for power. gore, liek camo, which has ZERO impact or effect on gameplay, is somethign people might want to buy.

this is a F2P game, adding buggies to teh game gets people playing maybe, but it still hasnt made money, people have to want to buy something for them to make money, a cosmetic effect is just that.

skins in LoL have zero game impact, but they are why riot makes so much

yeah what this guy said.

[itek]

I don't see how gore makes the game better. It just seems pointless to me.
Plus with medics being able to revive people, too much gore would just be stupid.

[Flaropri]

Video game violence does not desensitize people. I guarantee you that if you put a gamer who plays violent video games in a room with a dead body, they will feel incredibly uneasy, if not terrified. Your example about the nudist only translates to violence desensitization if the person is actually witnessing gore first-hand, and not through an entertainment medium. You take a guy who's never seen a woman naked in real life but is obsessed with porn, and put him in a room with a nude model, I can promise you it will still excite him.

First of all there are different levels of desensitizing. It isn't an on/off switch but a gradient. You aren't either sensitive or not. Second of all, I agree that most typical people will likely get nauseous when it's right in front of them. They aren't used to the level of detail, such as for example smell, that make it "real" and that they aren't used to. Likewise, most people won't see a fresh corpse unless they are in a related occupation (and desensitized to it over time) or related to the deceased (which adds impact).

Even so, in part due to video game training, it is generally easier (emotionally) for military personnel to, for example, use UAVs to strike a target than it is to shoot someone up close. The UAV is just like video games. In fact, this method making things emotionally easier is the whole point of the movie Toys (fictional though it is).

When people are exposed to something repeatedly, it naturally becomes less shocking (either that or becomes traumatic if it was a negative thing). People can be desensitized to gore through movies, video games, etc. but that won't remove scent, emotional impact when you think about someone as a real person, etc. Even so, the image of a corpse on TV is generally far less impactful than seeing one in person, and a large part of that is because the imagery is readily available in news and in entertainment.

If you take the Aurora shooting as an example, some of the victims initially thought the guy attacking was part of a show, because the show itself, media, etc. had made someone bursting in with a mask and smoke bombs "normal" It was only when they realized he was actually killing people, that their lives were in danger, that they reacted in the typical fashion, but that initial reaction wasn't there, and they were desensitized to a masked man entering the theater throwing smoke bombs, but most of them not being shot at (or in the case of the ex military there, had an idea of how to respond due to training).

The video game nerd might respond more to an actual corpse than a fake one, the porn addict might respond more to a real woman than a video, but that doesn't mean they aren't desensitized to it at some level. In fact, that very fact points to them already being desensitized to the "virtual" experience, and the novelty of it being "real" likely adds to the excitement (at least for the porn guy).

I'm not saying people don't know the difference between reality and not, or that there's no difference between media violence and real violence. All I'm saying is that exposure to something makes later exposure to it less shocking or stimulating... not that it removes that shock entirely though.

Get a headshot with a sniper rifle in Gears of War and you'll understand what makes it satisfying. It just feels good to see the person you shot at get fucked up. Makes the kill more visceral. It provides those "OH SHIT" moments.

I haven't played Gears of War, but I have played TF2, Quake, and other similar games (referring to levels of hyper-violence, obviously the older games have less detail/blood). I understand how people could come to think that (kind of like how I can understand people liking the sequels to Saw or either Human Centipede), but it isn't something that I share. I enjoy TF2 and Quake generally in SPITE of "giblets."

It also again points to being desensitized, that people not only want hyper-violence to get "satisfaction" but also that they "need" it.


But hey, just because I don't like it, and am saddened that people take enjoyment of it, doesn't mean I'm going to stop people from asking for it if that's what they really want, or companies selling it if they actually make a profit from it. Just don't expect me to endorse it.

[Flaropri]

TL;DR... no one gives a shit.

:rolleyes:

[Gugabalog]

TL;DR... no one gives a shit.

This should be bannable. It's rude so it's reportable.

[Sephirex]

Please do put me out of my misery, you guys are are dumb as a box of rocks. The only thing I have been looking forward to for beta is that I can be a part of those forums as to avoid such stupid people as you guys. Later

Stay classy and godspeed.

[Gugabalog]

I share your sentiment but TLDR is like an internet swear.

[Masterr]

I don't see how gore makes the game better. It just seems pointless to me.
Plus with medics being able to revive people, too much gore would just be stupid.

Than dont buy the gore pack. All I can really tell you. Gore makes the game as good as hood ornaments do, its flashy.

Please do put me out of my misery, you guys are are dumb as a box of rocks. The only thing I have been looking forward to for beta is that I can be a part of those forums as to avoid such stupid people as you guys. Later

he seems mad. :lol:

[opticalshadow]

its also worth mentioning that "gore" doesnt mean exploding bodies, it can mean as little as just blood splats and bullet holes.

trying to use medics reviving as a limitation is silly.

[FuzzyandBlue]

First of all there are different levels of desensitizing. It isn't an on/off switch but a gradient. You aren't either sensitive or not. Second of all, I agree that most typical people will likely get nauseous when it's right in front of them. They aren't used to the level of detail, such as for example smell, that make it "real" and that they aren't used to. Likewise, most people won't see a fresh corpse unless they are in a related occupation (and desensitized to it over time) or related to the deceased (which adds impact).

Even so, in part due to video game training, it is generally easier (emotionally) for military personnel to, for example, use UAVs to strike a target than it is to shoot someone up close. The UAV is just like video games. In fact, this method making things emotionally easier is the whole point of the movie Toys (fictional though it is).

When people are exposed to something repeatedly, it naturally becomes less shocking (either that or becomes traumatic if it was a negative thing). People can be desensitized to gore through movies, video games, etc. but that won't remove scent, emotional impact when you think about someone as a real person, etc. Even so, the image of a corpse on TV is generally far less impactful than seeing one in person, and a large part of that is because the imagery is readily available in news and in entertainment.

If you take the Aurora shooting as an example, some of the victims initially thought the guy attacking was part of a show, because the show itself, media, etc. had made someone bursting in with a mask and smoke bombs "normal" It was only when they realized he was actually killing people, that their lives were in danger, that they reacted in the typical fashion, but that initial reaction wasn't there, and they were desensitized to a masked man entering the theater throwing smoke bombs, but most of them not being shot at (or in the case of the ex military there, had an idea of how to respond due to training).

The video game nerd might respond more to an actual corpse than a fake one, the porn addict might respond more to a real woman than a video, but that doesn't mean they aren't desensitized to it at some level. In fact, that very fact points to them already being desensitized to the "virtual" experience, and the novelty of it being "real" likely adds to the excitement (at least for the porn guy).

I'm not saying people don't know the difference between reality and not, or that there's no difference between media violence and real violence. All I'm saying is that exposure to something makes later exposure to it less shocking or stimulating... not that it removes that shock entirely though.



I haven't played Gears of War, but I have played TF2, Quake, and other similar games (referring to levels of hyper-violence, obviously the older games have less detail/blood). I understand how people could come to think that (kind of like how I can understand people liking the sequels to Saw or either Human Centipede), but it isn't something that I share. I enjoy TF2 and Quake generally in SPITE of "giblets."

It also again points to being desensitized, that people not only want hyper-violence to get "satisfaction" but also that they "need" it.


But hey, just because I don't like it, and am saddened that people take enjoyment of it, doesn't mean I'm going to stop people from asking for it if that's what they really want, or companies selling it if they actually make a profit from it. Just don't expect me to endorse it.

I read the whole thing flaropri. It is IMO the best reply on this thread and one of the best replies I have read on this forum. Maybe you can make a picture book version for all of the TL;DR guys out there.

[Blackwolf]

but the thing is, buggies cant be a cash shop item, or it breaks their no pay for power. gore, liek camo, which has ZERO impact or effect on gameplay, is somethign people might want to buy.

this is a F2P game, adding buggies to teh game gets people playing maybe, but it still hasnt made money, people have to want to buy something for them to make money, a cosmetic effect is just that.

skins in LoL have zero game impact, but they are why riot makes so much

I've explained this. Buggies won't directly make money (as in not something to buy) but they will improve game play drastically, which encourages players to continue paying.

And I also explained something you conveniently cut out of the quote. Items such as camo and hood ornaments are things everyone sees, where as gore is just something the purchaser sees. Everyone who buys camo impacts the game by wearing it and showing it off, just like everyone who pimps out their vehicle is showing off. Gore doesn't contribute to game play at all, and thus IMO should be very very low on the priority list of things to do, given the level of work it needs compared to other things that take much less work but generate as much if not more money because they are self advertising.

[Bruttal]

Id approve of Light gore get shot see some blood splatter for couple seconds and then that's it. no perma stains or body parts laying around

[Charred]

Id approve of Light gore get shot see some blood splatter for couple seconds and then that's it. no perma stains or body parts laying around

"Id approve"

I can't help feeling that a lot of people on here have some sort of personality disorder which makes them think they are something important, you included.

[Littleman]

Id approve of Light gore get shot see some blood splatter for couple seconds and then that's it. no perma stains or body parts laying around

Watching videos very closely, I've actually seen blood spurts where bullets connect to the player. Kind of like what (Infinity Ward) CoD does.

They're easy to miss simply due to angle though, as usually we see a bright muzzle flash when the rounds hit their target after all.

[Gugabalog]

"Id approve"

I can't help feeling that a lot of people on here have some sort of personality disorder which makes them think they are something important, you included.

Ikr? So many try shutting things down simply because they don't like it. Instead they deny deny deny instead of building consensus.

Some people need to learn how to argue/debate

[P Nutz]

I laughed.... HARD :D I will start putting "That was a joke" after every joke now...


[SPOILERS!!] Mass Effect 3 - EDI making jokes

:D

On Topic: I really don't believe this game needs a gore pack; I feel like it will complicate things with the other markets' ratings systems. Frankly, over-the-top gore doesn't have a place in this game, and I think it will just be more distracting than anything.

And to all of those who say ratings are useless, this game IS getting rated by the ESRB, so deal with it.

[Jerry Husky]

I have no problem with gore as long as its realistic. (For example when hit directly by a tank shell there shouldn't be anything left.) This leads to an interesting story: Back when I played PS1 I suggested in the chat that MAX units should explode into pieces instead of fall over. But then another player brought up a great point. "If MAX unites blew up. How could medics revive them?"

[opticalshadow]

I have no problem with gore as long as its realistic. (For example when hit directly by a tank shell there shouldn't be anything left.) This leads to an interesting story: Back when I played PS1 I suggested in the chat that MAX units should explode into pieces instead of fall over. But then another player brought up a great point. "If MAX unites blew up. How could medics revive them?"

teht hing is, again, gore doesnt have to mean dismemberment and explosions,

it can be bullet holes in the body, it can be blood splatter. golden eye for the n64 had gore in the form of red spots where you shot the guy, it wasnt redic, it wasnt over the top.

we dont need to be talking about the extream on this, but we are human, we should bleed when shot.

[Masterr]

I have no problem with gore as long as its realistic. (For example when hit directly by a tank shell there shouldn't be anything left.) This leads to an interesting story: Back when I played PS1 I suggested in the chat that MAX units should explode into pieces instead of fall over. But then another player brought up a great point. "If MAX unites blew up. How could medics revive them?"

yeah i wish the blowing up thing would make since and players will gib but thats not going to work with the current game mechanics (revives). I do agree that gore can be low priority on the list, its a add-on with potential revenue way down the road. Who knows, maybe we can have a scream from someone getting blown up in a vehicle.

I remember playing alien vs predator 2 and playing predator in multiplayer. Everytime i took someones head off with a combistick, i got a very satisfactory roar that only you could hear. If only that game didn't die, but that really made the kills over the top. If planetside could make destroying tanks/aircraft/infantry, feel like that, it'll be BIG TIME.

[SkilletSoup]

I'll pay for a good gore package. Damm right. If you have young kids and don't want to expose them to graphic violence, don't buy the package. And I'll assume you already locked out 80% of TV programming, right? Beware the nightly news and 24/7 news channels. Just saying.

[Tehroth]

Man all these people that are too persuaded by media. Blood and violence in video games does not promote violent tendencies in people. If someone is violent they will be regardless without an outlet.

Take someone else's right away to please yours is basically all I am seeing when someone opposes this. Personally I love Gear of War gore there is few things more satisfying then exploding someones head, or in Turok blowing limbs off.

There are legalities you can counter if you charge a few and have an age requirement. Personally I probably wouldn't buy it if it cost too much, but to push your own agenda on people because you don't like something is pretty selfish.

[Gavinbrindstaar]

Man, I didn't know there were so many Clinical Psychologists and International Sales Lawyers on the board.

[Red Beard]

Man, I didn't know there were so many Clinical Psychologists and International Sales Lawyers on the board.

Because you're not allowed to talk about it without the piece of paper... :rolleyes:

[Gugabalog]

Man all these people that are too persuaded by media. Blood and violence in video games does not promote violent tendencies in people. If someone is violent they will be regardless without an outlet.

Take someone else's right away to please yours is basically all I am seeing when someone opposes this. Personally I love Gear of War gore there is few things more satisfying then exploding someones head, or in Turok blowing limbs off.

There are legalities you can counter if you charge a few and have an age requirement. Personally I probably wouldn't buy it if it cost too much, but to push your own agenda on people because you don't like something is pretty selfish.

Yea. Some people don't understand that nanny states are incompatible with liberty.

[Graf]

There is a reason I like the NC you know(FREEDOM!). If SOE wants to do it they will! If they can make money on it withought hurting the player base, they will! If something else will make them more money, they will do that instead! I really don't see the point in arguing over this. It is futile, and I don't understand the point of this.:confused:

[Flaropri]

Man all these people that are too persuaded by media. Blood and violence in video games does not promote violent tendencies in people. If someone is violent they will be regardless without an outlet.

For my part, I agree that video game and other media violence does not promote violent tendencies. There is a difference between desensitizing (or acclimating) someone to something and inciting someone to it. But this idea that it doesn't desensitize (or acclimate) people is fantasy.


Anyway, the topic is more complex than it's made out to be most of the time. Desensitizing or acclimating people isn't just limited to video games or imagery either of course; but I'd rather not get too off topic for too long :D

[Masterr]

There is a reason I like the NC you know(FREEDOM!). If SOE wants to do it they will! If they can make money on it withought hurting the player base, they will! If something else will make them more money, they will do that instead! I really don't see the point in arguing over this. It is futile, and I don't understand the point of this.:confused:

my original purpose was to see how many people would be interested in getting a "gore pack" however, it has turned into other discussions here and there.

[Fanglord]

I would like to see some level of gore, I think it cheapens games that try and lower rating by ommiting abit of blood in a war game. The war/shooting/killing should before me is more potent in setting the age rating; it adds a level of polish. It also just looks silly when people fall over after being hit with a grenade/tank shell.

Doesn't have to be insane but it definitely adds the felling of impact plus for those that don't like it, can always be turned off.

[Nolerhn]

I'm not so sure that video games (or media in general) really desensitizes people to violence/gore. Take me for example, I'm 25 years old, I've been playing video games basically ever since I was around 5. I've played many violent games, all the Grand Theft Auto games, Bulletstorm, TF2, the Devil May Cry series, most Resident Evil games, the list goes on. Hell, in MGS: Snake Eater, there were times when I would intentionally shoot the legs of my enemies just to watch them limp around. I would often do the million stab attack in DMC games just b/c it looked cool to rapidly stab my enemies.

However, I'm currently in a radiography program. During my first semester of clinicals last year, I vividly remember my first surgery rotation. There was a forearm surgery. When I saw the surgeon open up the patient's arm, and I was freely able to look at the insides of the patient's arm-- bone, ligaments, blood vessels, and muscles, I nearly fainted. It wasn't even violent, this happened in a controlled environment, and it bothered me. Yet, before, in video games, nothing of the sort has every bothered me, it even entertained me. The real thing bothers me. It still does to this day somewhat during clinicals. I mostly just listen to the surgeon to say their ready for me, line up my equipment, and watch my screen instead of looking at the inside of a patient's incision.

EDIT: I forgot to mention, if something like a gore pack could happen, and it would make SOE money for a F2P game, I'm all for it. I wouldn't personally buy it though.

[Tehroth]

For my part, I agree that video game and other media violence does not promote violent tendencies. There is a difference between desensitizing (or acclimating) someone to something and inciting someone to it. But this idea that it doesn't desensitize (or acclimate) people is fantasy.


Anyway, the topic is more complex than it's made out to be most of the time. Desensitizing or acclimating people isn't just limited to video games or imagery either of course; but I'd rather not get too off topic for too long :D

Video game violence does not completely desensitize someone in real life its a combination. Maybe if we had TV shows like the "Running man" or public executions then people would be use to people dying. Our culture and people have gradually changed over the years and yes we have become less censored as opposed to the 50s where undergarments were considered nudity and blood was considered taboo.

Those that decipher real life from video games or movies are the only ones that really would be desensitized, but they most likely be clinically impaired mentally. I like our freedom in that regard, but to take someone else's choice away because another person couldn't handle fantasy is folly.

Yes certain cultures have made people more prone to do things such as the gangsta rap music genre, but that is because those certain people don't have the mental capacity to see what they are doing is wrong, but most likely would do similar negative activities regardless.

TLDR: Certain people don't have a conscience or mental capacity to see what is right or wrong.

[Serotriptomine]

No way in hell i'm never going to get desensitized to death.
It's entertainment, it's not a way of life.
I'm scared of dying and people dying. Idk.

[megamold]

if soe think a gore pack could get them some extra cash then sure, but i wont be buying it since for some reason gore doesnt seem to fit with planetside for me.

[Mox]

Blood and violence in video games does not promote violent tendencies in people. If someone is violent they will be regardless without an outlet.

Sorry mate but you are not right. Several scientific studies have shown that violent video games foster violent behavior. That doesn't mean that everybody who play this kind of game will slaughter his neighbours. It just means that the amount of people showing violent behavior after excessiv playing of violent video games is significantly higher compared to people who played other video games. Nevertheless, there are a bunch of other influencing factors (e.g. social status, education, family, etc.)

[opticalshadow]

Sorry mate but you are not right. Several scientific studies have shown that violent video games foster violent behavior. That doesn't mean that everybody who play this kind of game will slaughter his neighbours. It just means that the amount of people showing violent behavior after excessiv playing of violent video games is significantly higher compared to people who played other video games. Nevertheless, there are a bunch of other influencing factors (e.g. social status, education, family, etc.)

there were also sevral studies that showed they didnt, and in fact help people because it gave them an outlet for frustration.


heres the deal, if you do something wrong its on you, you have free will, that means you have the capacity to choose not to do something. if you dont, then your not competent, and video games aretn the problem anyways.

[Mox]

there were also sevral studies that showed they didnt, and in fact help people because it gave them an outlet for frustration.

I know these studies as well. It is question if you talk about shortterm or longterm effects. Longterm effects of violent videogaming are more questionable than shortterm.

By the way, the "outlet for fustration" argument isn't up to date anymore.

heres the deal, if you do something wrong its on you, you have free will, that means you have the capacity to choose not to do something. if you dont, then your not competent, and video games aretn the problem anyways.

Sorry, but that is no scientific argument.

Violent behavior is always an outcome of multiple factors. Just playing violent video games is not enough. Together with e.g. a bad childhood or bad social environment or less education playing violent video games may foster violent behavior. Especially if the gamer is still a child or teenager. Thats why most countries have child protection laws.

I think it is important that every adult should have the freedom to play or watch whatever he likes. But regarding to childern there must be clear restrictions.

[Flaropri]

Guess I'll go with the long version.

Video game violence does not completely desensitize someone in real life its a combination.

Agreed, as I said in previous posts, it's all in gradients, and it effects different people differently. It isn't some "black and white" thing, and the amount of effect depends on the person. Some people will be less effected by repeated exposure than others (and that will likely vary from subject to subject as well).

There's also the flipside potential, particularly when accompanied by trauma, that something could become overly sensitive or even a phobia. While a fictional character, Ranma (of Ranma 1/2) gained a phobia of cats due to repeated trauma from his father. But these cases are relatively rare. Also, again as I said previously, there are multiple differences between reality and video games that add additional details that people won't be desensitized to regardless. Scent, emotional burden, etc.

On the other hand, those that are repeatedly exposed to certain things will get acclimated to it. Another poster talked about being in a radiology program. While that person has chosen to avoid looking at the real thing, I think that they would, like the surgeons they work with, eventually get used to it if they did.

Another interesting example that draws a lot of what we've discussed together:

For a soldier on a battlefield, the first real combat is generally the most shocking. Subsequent battles are less shocking, but still have an impact on most people, to the point that many soldiers unfortunately kill themselves because the nature of war isn't something they can adjust to (and/or they don't like the idea of what they'd become if they did).

Individual leanings and pliability, general acclimation, and social norms all play a role in what people are sensitive to, and to what degree. When it comes to "genetics" vs. "education" I'm a firm believer that both play a role in the development of a personality. I think it's oversimplifying it to wholly blame environment when someone does something wrong (blame the people that do bad things, I say), but it is also oversimplifying it to say that people will do things as they do regardless of culture, education, or other outside stimulus.

Propaganda for example, while generally different from what we're talking about here, very much has an impact on societies. With "The West" constantly talking about how Iran is going to attack Israel or some other nation any moment now, people get used to the idea that Iran is a dangerous nation poised to start a war, even if they have no other information outside the talking points put out by the propagandists. Painting a target as a "threat" isn't something you can usually do over-night with just rhetoric, but it can be done without solid proof by acclimating people to the idea over time, even if the basic premise is a lie like the invasion of Iraq.

Propaganda can have a profound effect on an individuals outlook, again, pending initial leanings, mental or emotional pliability, and other factors. For example, many will be swayed by propaganda and support a given agenda without looking further into it. Some will reject propaganda and refuse to support the agenda, or even actively try to undermine it. Propaganda is a large-scale intentional effort to direct social and political discussion and thought, but that doesn't mean that small scale or unintentional directing occurs as part of societal growth, via the emergence of new situations, etc.


Desensitizing and propaganda are two different things, but they aren't unrelated. It is important, I guess, to repeat this: Desensitizing someone does not incite them to action. All it really means is that they are less likely to react to it, that it is "acceptable" and "normalized." Greater degrees of it can result in an escalation based on a desire to react to it. For example, someone might get bored of porn (work with me here) so they look for kinkier stuff to get them excited, or need to get a real sex partner to get the same or greater level of excitement that they used to get when they first got into it.

Someone who likes seeing blood that gets desensitized to it due to saturation would seek out greater graphical detail or something similar. However, in neither case does the desensitizing increase or inspire the initial desire to get that excitement, and for most people, it won't degrade enough from the initial activity to make a real difference in behavior.

Also, being desensitized to something isn't always bad. A surgeon that is unable to get over the shock of blood isn't going to do very well for very long. A police officer that is able to get over having killed a criminal and the possibility of having to do so again will generally have a healthier mental and emotional outlook than one that can't. Race car drivers that freak out at acceleration are also not going to do particularly well in their field.

I don't think that the effect video games and other media have on people is strong or damaging enough that I would try to stop them or censor them. I much prefer liberty. However, that isn't going to keep me from expressing disappointment when people ask for the imagery of literally blowing bodies apart. I'm also not going to pretend that there is no effect.


TL;DR: In the argument of "Nature vs. Nurture" I believe both play a role, and trying to say it's only one or the other is oversimplifying things. Violence in media has a desensitizing effect, though the strength of that effect (and possibility of rejection) varies from person to person. For the third time: Desensitizing someone is not the same as inciting them. People that argue that video games cause violence (likely the opposite honestly) are just as wrong as people that say that media has no effect on society or individuals.

[morf]

Doesn't ESRB not apply to online play anyway?

ESRB always says "game experience may change during online play."

This is a polite way of saying "yeah Elmo's Circus Adventure is rated E for everyone but if you go play online you will inevitably run into some kid who likes to say stuff like "OMFG U C*&T GODD*&% C*CKSICKLES FCU&*KING STUPID BLACK '8&&34 ****"

[Tactical Pony]

I guess it does, if you're 15 years old. :rolleyes:

or maybe, just maybe, he is however old he is, and your judgement doesn't change that.

how about that trash, crazy philosophical nonsense right there!

[Piper]

PS2 is/will be a violent game. Difficult to dispute? It represents acts of violence. Heck its very purpose is to represent acts of violence for the sake of entertainment?

Tom and Jerry. The above represents violence for the sake of entertainment?

Is this a discussion on why we shouldn't represent violence in our cultures at all, in which case why are any of us on these of all forums, or is it a discussion about the manner in which we choose to represent it?

"Inconsequential" violence, ala T&J is in itself an oddity, surely, to represent to those of a certain age at least?

[Sledgecrushr]

I really dont care for the psycho analysis of all this. I would purchase if the price is right a so called gore pack so I can have a little extra effects in my game.

[Noctis]

tldr I want Quake 3 Arena effects.

[Masterr]

I really dont care for the psycho analysis of all this. I would purchase if the price is right a so called gore pack so I can have a little extra effects in my game.

Same...seems like we have a like of psychology majors here.

tldr I want Quake 3 Arena effects.

if those effects consist of the announcer going "headshot" id like that in every fps game i play, lol.

[NePaS]

ESRB always says "game experience may change during online play."

This is a polite way of saying "yeah Elmo's Circus Adventure is rated E for everyone but if you go play online you will inevitably run into some kid who likes to say stuff like "OMFG U C*&T GODD*&% C*CKSICKLES FCU&*KING STUPID BLACK '8&&34 ****"

Sounds Xbox live.

[Noctis]

Same...seems like we have a like of psychology majors here.



if those effects consist of the announcer going "headshot" id like that in every fps game i play, lol.


PC Gameplay: Quake III Arena - YouTube

0:58 Death "Animation"

[Masterr]

PC Gameplay: Quake III Arena - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laVpV1PFziw)

0:58 Death "Animation"

i want quake 3 effects 2

[Hydra]

Seeing how this will never be added, this entire discussion was pointless to begin with. :rolleyes:

[Mox]

Guess I'll go with the long version.



Agreed, as I said in previous posts, it's all in gradients, and it effects different people differently. It isn't some "black and white" thing, and the amount of effect depends on the person. Some people will be less effected by repeated exposure than others (and that will likely vary from subject to subject as well).

There's also the flipside potential, particularly when accompanied by trauma, that something could become overly sensitive or even a phobia. While a fictional character, Ranma (of Ranma 1/2) gained a phobia of cats due to repeated trauma from his father. But these cases are relatively rare. Also, again as I said previously, there are multiple differences between reality and video games that add additional details that people won't be desensitized to regardless. Scent, emotional burden, etc.

On the other hand, those that are repeatedly exposed to certain things will get acclimated to it. Another poster talked about being in a radiology program. While that person has chosen to avoid looking at the real thing, I think that they would, like the surgeons they work with, eventually get used to it if they did.

Another interesting example that draws a lot of what we've discussed together:

For a soldier on a battlefield, the first real combat is generally the most shocking. Subsequent battles are less shocking, but still have an impact on most people, to the point that many soldiers unfortunately kill themselves because the nature of war isn't something they can adjust to (and/or they don't like the idea of what they'd become if they did).

Individual leanings and pliability, general acclimation, and social norms all play a role in what people are sensitive to, and to what degree. When it comes to "genetics" vs. "education" I'm a firm believer that both play a role in the development of a personality. I think it's oversimplifying it to wholly blame environment when someone does something wrong (blame the people that do bad things, I say), but it is also oversimplifying it to say that people will do things as they do regardless of culture, education, or other outside stimulus.

Propaganda for example, while generally different from what we're talking about here, very much has an impact on societies. With "The West" constantly talking about how Iran is going to attack Israel or some other nation any moment now, people get used to the idea that Iran is a dangerous nation poised to start a war, even if they have no other information outside the talking points put out by the propagandists. Painting a target as a "threat" isn't something you can usually do over-night with just rhetoric, but it can be done without solid proof by acclimating people to the idea over time, even if the basic premise is a lie like the invasion of Iraq.

Propaganda can have a profound effect on an individuals outlook, again, pending initial leanings, mental or emotional pliability, and other factors. For example, many will be swayed by propaganda and support a given agenda without looking further into it. Some will reject propaganda and refuse to support the agenda, or even actively try to undermine it. Propaganda is a large-scale intentional effort to direct social and political discussion and thought, but that doesn't mean that small scale or unintentional directing occurs as part of societal growth, via the emergence of new situations, etc.


Desensitizing and propaganda are two different things, but they aren't unrelated. It is important, I guess, to repeat this: Desensitizing someone does not incite them to action. All it really means is that they are less likely to react to it, that it is "acceptable" and "normalized." Greater degrees of it can result in an escalation based on a desire to react to it. For example, someone might get bored of porn (work with me here) so they look for kinkier stuff to get them excited, or need to get a real sex partner to get the same or greater level of excitement that they used to get when they first got into it.

Someone who likes seeing blood that gets desensitized to it due to saturation would seek out greater graphical detail or something similar. However, in neither case does the desensitizing increase or inspire the initial desire to get that excitement, and for most people, it won't degrade enough from the initial activity to make a real difference in behavior.

Also, being desensitized to something isn't always bad. A surgeon that is unable to get over the shock of blood isn't going to do very well for very long. A police officer that is able to get over having killed a criminal and the possibility of having to do so again will generally have a healthier mental and emotional outlook than one that can't. Race car drivers that freak out at acceleration are also not going to do particularly well in their field.

I don't think that the effect video games and other media have on people is strong or damaging enough that I would try to stop them or censor them. I much prefer liberty. However, that isn't going to keep me from expressing disappointment when people ask for the imagery of literally blowing bodies apart. I'm also not going to pretend that there is no effect.


TL;DR: In the argument of "Nature vs. Nurture" I believe both play a role, and trying to say it's only one or the other is oversimplifying things. Violence in media has a desensitizing effect, though the strength of that effect (and possibility of rejection) varies from person to person. For the third time: Desensitizing someone is not the same as inciting them. People that argue that video games cause violence (likely the opposite honestly) are just as wrong as people that say that media has no effect on society or individuals.

I agree 100%. Thanks a lot for this nice roundup of the current scientific knowledge about the issue.

[Gugabalog]

I agree as well.

(Down with the nanny-staters still though!)

[Masterr]

Seeing how this will never be added, this entire discussion was pointless to begin with. :rolleyes:

clearly u work at soe.

[Astrok]

i think gore is not in its place in this game.