Teamkilling...

[Astrok]

Right now im pretty much into world of tanks (a free to play tank sim for those who doesnt know the game).

but what i dont like in this game is because its free u have so many asses that think its fun to teamkill.

do they plan to have some banning system in ps2 to keep them out of the game so normal people that like to play like it should be played can play?

[Bruttal]

PS1 Had a Greif system. causing damage to team or team equipment/vehicles causes greif the more you have the harder it is to ware down and eventually lock your weapons

[ChipMHazard]

Last thing I read they are planning on a sytem similar to the grief system in PS1.

[AThreatToYou]

I play WoT a lot. Only in one game have I ran into an intentional teamkiller. You must play at low tiers... cause at higher tiers, you can literally lose somewhere around 200k silvers for teamkilling. You can also lose experience points.

PlanetSide has a grief system. Players probably won't be penalized nearly as badly as they are in WoT as they won't lose resources, but they will eventually be locked out of the game.

[Beem]

yes they plan on having an anti grief system.

[Piper]

Again, like quite a lot of what we seem to discuss, this could boil down to the nature of F2P accounts.

The grief system in PS1 works(ed) fine as a way to retain FF but require people to exercise restraint because we paid for our accounts. When you can have multiple free accounts er....

....mind you what we used to do about people who started this stuff, if diplomacy failed, was to get your entire outfit (if you're in one of course) to spawn camp them whenever they were seen. If the person in question really was that much of a pillock.

[sagolsun]

Again, like quite a lot of what we seem to discuss, this could boil down to the nature of F2P accounts.

The grief system in PS1 works(ed) fine as a way to retain FF but require people to exercise restraint because we paid for our accounts. When you can have multiple free accounts er....

....mind you what we used to do about people who started this stuff, if diplomacy failed, was to get your entire outfit (if you're in one of course) to spawn camp them whenever they were seen. If the person in question really was that much of a pillock.

Well then the outfit GNAA#45 will disband and GNAA#46 will be founded. All with new accounts.

Sadly I'm not permitted to explain what GNAA stands for.

[Firearms]

because its free u have so many asses that think its fun to teamkill.

:rolleyes:

[Piper]

Well then the outfit GNAA#45 will disband and GNAA#46 will be founded. All with new accounts.

Sadly I'm not permitted to explain what GNAA stands for.

No I meant if someone is being an arse and TKing, your outfit goes and pays them back, continually, until they log out/sod off to another area of the map. It would happen in PS1 from time to time, till everyone cooled their heels. Muppet level TK'ers generally being solo types from what I recall.

[Disastersaurus]

Can you just kill your team mates/vehicles by shooting on it? They should make it that you can't kill team mates/vehicles like in Battlefield 3.

[sagolsun]

No I meant if someone is being an arse and TKing, your outfit goes and pays them back, continually, until they log out/sod off to another area of the map. It would happen in PS1 from time to time, till everyone cooled their heels. Muppet level TK'ers generally being solo types from what I recall.

My point still stands. The trolling outfit disbands, rerolls VPN and reregisters using random dictionary usernames and continues trolling on.

The only option is to have a very strong and aggressive moderation team and several countermeasures in place. I'm hoping SOE is aware of this, because PS2 is in the position of a inebriated petite blonde wandering alone in a bad black neighbourhood.

I know that was a terrible metaphor. Sue me.

[Piper]

Can you just kill your team mates/vehicles by shooting on it? They should make it that you can't kill team mates/vehicles like in Battlefield 3.

Nope, sorry, got to have friendly fire in game as it presents another challenge level for us to deal with.

Many of the disputes I recall were arguments along the line of "You ran in front of my field of fire!" "No, you didn't stop shooting!". Or "You mowed me!" "No, you didn't get out of the way of my tank" Etc etc. Grief point system in PS1 works, if it translates in F2P PS2.....dunno....for most people who will be there to "make a name of themselves" and use just the one account/character it will.

Beyond that, who knows. Wait for Beta/Launch(tm). :p

My point still stands. The trolling outfit disbands, rerolls VPN and reregisters using random dictionary usernames and continues trolling on.

The only option is to have a very strong and aggressive moderation team and several countermeasures in place. I'm hoping SOE is aware of this, because PS2 is in the position of a inebriated petite blonde wandering alone in a bad black neighbourhood.

I know that was a terrible metaphor. Sue me.

Oh right, sorry, my bad, I see what you mean now.

Er....entire outfit scale TKing....er.....yeah, that could be a problem. But that'll be when this supposed 24/7 CSR support we're going to get will step in I assume?

But, as you say, reroll and grief on? :(

[PlaceboCyanide]

SOE might just have to adopt a IP address timeout.

We do not want permanent IP address bans because they can change over the course of weeks or months. If the Ban is a temporary ban only lasting 24 hours to a week then it would prevent any account hopping after getting banned. For more serious offenses, there is of course the banning of an account.

[Timithos]

My point still stands. The trolling outfit disbands, rerolls VPN and reregisters using random dictionary usernames and continues trolling on.

That's horrible! I've fortunately never experienced a group like that in PS1. We had a solo TK'r a couple weeks ago. We all took turns killing him.

I hope they have all kinds of detriments in place, including ever-increasing resource loss, ever-increasing spawn time, ever-increasing vehicle timers, ever-increasing weapon lock-out times, spawn location lock-outs, etc., all on an exponential curve - mild at first, extreme after a few times.

[Papscal]

I have and will kill players being ass hats. Doesent happen very often but its necessary.

[Baneblade]

Community is my anti-TK.

[Gugabalog]

Thing about TK is that you can TK them right back. (Just hope people realize who the original TKer was!)

[Emperor]

I'm just going to say, I personally dislike the PS1 grief system, reason being that you accrue grief points for every hit on a teammate, rather than an actual TK. I think BF2 had a great system, whereby if you were teamkilled by someone you could vote whether to punish or to forgive. A system like that is of course open to abuse, but it allows for a lot more leniency.

If I get TK'd by a tank that was intending to bombard an enemy, I'd like to be able to forgive that person. Conversely, if I rush forward to throw a plasma grenade into a room of crowded TR and a squad behind me decides to run in, I'd really rather not be blamed for them taking damage. (Both of these things happened yesterday on Forseral)

[PlaceboCyanide]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. There needs to be a solution outside of teamkilling, lest the victim be punished as well.

[Kipper]

So in a couple of thousand WoT battles, I've had teamkill/intentional team damage maybe 3 times. It's not such a huge problem.

If the game recognises persistent TK'ing (either automatically or through reports from several people in a certain amount of time) then the player can be red-flagged and open to friendly fire without punishment, or for further transgressions, booted. I don't think it will be a major issue.

I did once get a grief firing ban on PS1, I'm sad to say. I wasn't griefing, I was firing MBT rounds into a tower entrance racking up kills from enemies trying to stream out of it and assault the nearby base - it was working, we were keeping them trapped inside. I never had so many FPS kills in such a short space of time, but every so often, a friendly squad would charge in suicidally and get in the way of things... Not cool. If they hadn't done that, our tanks could have sat there all day and kept them in that tower.

[LordSlack]

One school of thought could be that if you TK someone, you cannot TK that player again for 10 minutes, but shooting them again yields like triple the penalty for doing damage during that time frame.

This could help moderate the grieving from the victim's side so they don't get killed over and over by some tool, while still preventing people from abusing it by making team mates immune to team killing. Harsh penalties for damaging the same same player again, they just won't die to your bullet.

[Astrok]

One school of thought could be that if you TK someone, you cannot TK that player again for 10 minutes, but shooting them again yields like triple the penalty for doing damage during that time frame.

This could help moderate the grieving from the victim's side so they don't get killed over and over by some tool, while still preventing people from abusing it by making team mates immune to team killing. Harsh penalties for damaging the same same player again, they just won't die to your bullet.

Easiest solution....No freindly fire....imagine like in ps1 when u enter a building with 50 guys....try not to shoot at ur freinds ...its more competitive to try not to hit freindlys then to hit enemys.

[Piper]

Easiest solution....No freindly fire.

Nope, sorry, that is still the "baby out with the bath water" way of looking at things. As I said earlier, leave it in, leave it as a challenge factor, find ways and means of tackling "players" who are doing nothing but logging into really grief. Disputes that flared up in PS1 due to FF that resulted in a mini spree of TKing usually died down.

For those using F2P accounts just to come and grief, we'll (well the dev's) have to find alternate solutions other than dumbing-down.

[Kipper]

You gotta have friendly fire IMO, otherwise you can just spam crap from the air in the general direction of a closely fought battle and see off the enemy.

If you have to actually AIM your bombardments so they take out the enemy tanks and not your own, then it promotes gameplay that is better - more satisfying to do, more satisfying to watch (precision rocket strikes in the nick of time, etc), and more skillful.

One or two accidental teamkills is part of a massive battle going on around you - and isn't any more than 'slightly annoying'. Deliberate, or repeated teamkills - that's not cool.

The BF2 forgive/punish system was alright in theory, but quite subjective. Many people would opt to punish every time, regardless of whether they stepped out in front of a heavy MG, or a helicopter crashed because it accidentally clipped something very slightly and flipped upside down uncontrollably as was known to happen.

Grief points do kind of work, except for in the situation I posted before, when you're contesting a doorway with tanks, and friendlies are trying to assault as well - but perhaps with local area faction voice chat these days, more co-ordination could be achieved.

[Piper]

when you're contesting a doorway with tanks, and friendlies are trying to assault as well

You are aware you can actually alleviate the pressure you are placing on a mouse button, when gunning for an MBT or otherwise? :p :D

What you described was a very common occurrence, the folks wanting to head in were in the mood to actually cap' it probably or they'd just be outside holding the door open for the MBT and spamming plasma. :groovy:

[SmokinJacakal]

One thing that pisses me off is when your firing down a hallway and "mister team fortress" comes asds' his ass off in front of you :lol: I just wish more people would be aware of their surrounding or at least acknowledge there is a crouch button in the game.

[Kipper]

You are aware you can actually alleviate the pressure you are placing on a mouse button, when gunning for an MBT or otherwise? :p :D

Indeed, more of a failure of co-ordinated tactics than anything else, our squad was trying to hold the enemy inside the tower, another completely separate squad wanted to go and capture it.... Neither squad had comms to the other to say "Ok, go now, we'll stop shooting till you've suicided in the doorway" :)

[MCYRook]

Honestly, plain teamkilling is not as much of an issue. The grief system from PS1 worked fairly well to keep any excessive TKing in check, and it can and will be modified to account for F2P. For instance, Higby has talked about increased grief point gain for "new" and/or low-level characters. So intentional griefers would at least need to invest some effort into any new "TK toon" they make.

I am more worried about grief play that doesn't give the douche any grief points to begin with.

[Piper]

I am more worried about grief play that doesn't give the douche any grief points to begin with.

Hopefully the good guys in Beta will go hunting for ways to do that and report them so they can be dealt with at the code level. I can recall a few ways in PS1 to do what you're talking about, but won't mention 'em. :p

Good news on your other post by the way, about returning MERC's.

[Canaris]

I play WoT a lot. Only in one game have I ran into an intentional teamkiller. You must play at low tiers... cause at higher tiers, you can literally lose somewhere around 200k silvers for teamkilling. You can also lose experience points.

PlanetSide has a grief system. Players probably won't be penalized nearly as badly as they are in WoT as they won't lose resources, but they will eventually be locked out of the game.

I think PS2 should have a similar harsh penalization system to WoT, you destroy a friendly a vehicle, well then you pay for it.

[Piper]

I think PS2 should have a similar harsh penalization system to WoT, you destroy a friendly a vehicle, well then you pay for it.

Actually...one thing we know about PS2 from videos that PS1 didn't/doesn't do is that it can record % damage done to a target by multiple sources. All PS1 did was register the killing blow/shot in terms of stat tracking.* But it did apply grief in real time to damage applied I suppose still....hmm.

Well it might aid them in terms of grief allocation, at least on durable things like vehicles perhaps.




* Displaying grief points as a tracked stat on the webpage might be a good thing as well, no idea if its up there or not.

[Kipper]

Seems fairly simple - if you TK a friendly that isn't in your squad(or outfit maybe) and there isn't an enemy in a certain radius, then you get a warning?

If you do it again, you get a 30 second firing ban, and another black mark.

Every time you do it again, the firing ban time goes up, add more black marks.

Black marks can be reduced over time (online) and/or good play (killing enemies).

Get to a certain level of black marks and your account is put on hold pending raising a ticket and explaining to a GM why you were being a twat?

If the user is in your squad/outfit and is TKing your members, you boot him so that he can't do it without getting grief points. Otherwise the game can assume you're somehow okay with this as you have other ways to control it that you aren't using.

Obviously you have to balance it so that genuine mistakes (crashing into a tree with people on a vehicle, stray bullets/explosives, someone runs in front of your gun etc) don't get punished as that would be annoying; but at the same time making sure you can't "work out" how you can TK on purpose without being punished with (maybe a certain number of TK's in a certain time gets you flagged for a GM to look at manually).

[Firearms]

I think PS2 should have a similar harsh penalization system to WoT, you destroy a friendly a vehicle, well then you pay for it.

Sounds good - But will the problem be from troll chars with no resources?

Are we thinking take resources (/XP) from higher levels cos they should know better - And disarm if you have nothing to take - so it's no worth/possible to do

[Marinealver]

Good thing for the beta. I meen Fratercide is expected to be on mistakes because of the number of players and the scale of the battle. (How can the Lib gunner tell what grey dot is hiding behind the rock?) But yeah TK is expected.

To be honest for the beta I am going to try and be an ARSE and spawn camp and TK and what not so we can find and identify the problems before it goest into release. Mabey make some appeal and report selections or an empire ban. (Go play for the smurfs traitor!)

Seems fairly simple - if you TK a friendly that isn't in your squad(or outfit maybe) and there isn't an enemy in a certain radius, then you get a warning?

If you do it again, you get a 30 second firing ban, and another black mark.

Every time you do it again, the firing ban time goes up, add more black marks.

Black marks can be reduced over time (online) and/or good play (killing enemies).

Get to a certain level of black marks and your account is put on hold pending raising a ticket and explaining to a GM why you were being a twat?

If the user is in your squad/outfit and is TKing your members, you boot him so that he can't do it without getting grief points. Otherwise the game can assume you're somehow okay with this as you have other ways to control it that you aren't using.

Obviously you have to balance it so that genuine mistakes (crashing into a tree with people on a vehicle, stray bullets/explosives, someone runs in front of your gun etc) don't get punished as that would be annoying; but at the same time making sure you can't "work out" how you can TK on purpose without being punished with (maybe a certain number of TK's in a certain time gets you flagged for a GM to look at manually).
Remove the killing enemies reduce grief, that will end up breeding some 1337est players who would TK or shoot through 2 friendly players just to kill (or kill steal).

Hopefully mabey we could make a player controled council of high CR5s that can take action on appeals by offering repramands grief lock ect.

[Zetsubo]

It's not really a "solution", but on PlanetSide's huge continents it shouldn't be too hard to put enough distance between you and griefsquads to still have fun.

It would take a huge number of dedicated griefers to really interfere with the game, I think.

[megamold]

Seems fairly simple - if you TK a friendly that isn't in your squad(or outfit maybe) and there isn't an enemy in a certain radius, then you get a warning?

If you do it again, you get a 30 second firing ban, and another black mark.

Every time you do it again, the firing ban time goes up, add more black marks.

Black marks can be reduced over time (online) and/or good play (killing enemies).

Get to a certain level of black marks and your account is put on hold pending raising a ticket and explaining to a GM why you were being a twat?

If the user is in your squad/outfit and is TKing your members, you boot him so that he can't do it without getting grief points. Otherwise the game can assume you're somehow okay with this as you have other ways to control it that you aren't using.

Obviously you have to balance it so that genuine mistakes (crashing into a tree with people on a vehicle, stray bullets/explosives, someone runs in front of your gun etc) don't get punished as that would be annoying; but at the same time making sure you can't "work out" how you can TK on purpose without being punished with (maybe a certain number of TK's in a certain time gets you flagged for a GM to look at manually).

this is basically the ps1 grief system, however "good play" should not be killing enemy's, it should be healing friendly's, providing ammo, .... that sort of stuff, since its the direct opposite of what a teamkiller likes to do :)

[vailliant]

Teamkilling doesnt happen that often in WoT only in the lower tiers, people in higher tiers don't really tk, If someone happens to tk in planetside2 the anti grief system will kick in, if not i'll just kill the b*stard :p

[Monsta]

In some (great) FPS shooters you voluntair to get killed by one of your team buddies to distract the enemy. And if the game is not gonna provide an easy way to do self-kill/provide respawn option, this will going to happen a lot.

[Piper]

In some (great) FPS shooters you voluntair to get killed by one of your team buddies to distract the enemy. And if the game is not gonna provide an easy way to do self-kill/provide respawn option, this will going to happen a lot.

Could you elaborate on that please? :) How would it distract them apart from them laughing that they'd done their work for 'em? :p

As to the second part, stand on your own 'nade (resource permitting). Suicide in PS1 was done sometimes to respawn, when in the arse end of nowhere, other times to deny your enemy your kill. The later really tended to wind some folks up. :D

[scroogh]

What about things like AoE damage? If you throw a grenade and your buddy decides now is a good time to stab someone you really shouldn't be blamed for his death... should you?

That's my only problem with friendly fire.

I don't know but I'm not that great of a shot in the first place so it's hard enough for me to shoot some one running out in the open, much less around my buddy and into the enemy. Kind of a philosophical thing here, is it my fault for killing him or his fault for walking in front of me? I lean towards the latter, but that doesn't ever stop me from feeling bad.
I feel it would be better if you had a certain number of team kills in a certain period of time then you should be punished, especially if you have no regular kills. so like if you have 4 team kills in 10 minutes and no normal kills then you get punished in some form or another.

[Piper]

What about things like AoE damage? If you throw a grenade and your buddy decides now is a good time to stab someone you really shouldn't be blamed for his death... should you?

That's my only problem with friendly fire.


Stuff happens! :)

You and your buddy will get to used to accidents. :) But the grief system in PS1 scales/d fairly intelligently such that the odd accident wouldn't punish you really. It ramped up in the amount of points awarded for FF if you did a lot in a short period of time. That was the sign for folks to ease off the AoE (which is much less in general it seems in PS2) and return to a direct fire weapon.

[gaz]

I thought you have to buy PS2 before playing it. F2P just means that you don't have to pay a subscription to be able to play? So if we have to buy PS2 the chance that hackers/cheaters/tks are coming back after being baned is very low. I don't mind having to spend 50$ for the game, it looks like it will be worth it...

[Salad Snake]

I'm just going to say, I personally dislike the PS1 grief system, reason being that you accrue grief points for every hit on a teammate, rather than an actual TK. I think BF2 had a great system, whereby if you were teamkilled by someone you could vote whether to punish or to forgive. A system like that is of course open to abuse, but it allows for a lot more leniency.

If I get TK'd by a tank that was intending to bombard an enemy, I'd like to be able to forgive that person. Conversely, if I rush forward to throw a plasma grenade into a room of crowded TR and a squad behind me decides to run in, I'd really rather not be blamed for them taking damage. (Both of these things happened yesterday on Forseral)

This, I know I'm going to get accidentally TK'd once in a while. I'd like to have the ability to waive his or her penalty if I see that it was indeed an accident.

One school of thought could be that if you TK someone, you cannot TK that player again for 10 minutes, but shooting them again yields like triple the penalty for doing damage during that time frame.

This could help moderate the grieving from the victim's side so they don't get killed over and over by some tool, while still preventing people from abusing it by making team mates immune to team killing. Harsh penalties for damaging the same same player again, they just won't die to your bullet.

That's a cool idea; make it so a TK'er gets friendly fire turned off for 15 minutes, but still accrues grief points for shooting at people (perhaps even increased grief points). Could be the first warning of the grief point system itself.

[Tatwi]

Anyone else read the title as "team milking"?

[MCYRook]

I thought you have to buy PS2 before playing it. F2P just means that you don't have to pay a subscription to be able to play?
Nope, F2P means the game is generally completely free to play, if you don't want to, you don't have to spend a single cent on it.

[Zerik]

Let's just hope they don't do a copy/paste of PS1's grief system. You know, where you can be run over by a friendly tank from behind, and get grief points for scratching their paint while you're laying there dead on the side of the road :doh:

[Piper]

Let's just hope they don't do a copy/paste of PS1's grief system. You know, where you can be run over by a friendly tank from behind, and get grief points for scratching their paint while you're laying there dead on the side of the road :doh:

I believe that's how it's meant to be, or you can reverse grief by intentionally throwing yourself in front of vehicles. Applying points to both people encourages both footzerger and driver to watch what they're doing. :)

I appreciate that the tank can be going at tank speeds but the life of a grunt in PS1 was always to be 101% situationally aware, for friendly and foe alike. :p

[Kipper]

With modern netcode and faster servers, surely they could apply a little bit of logic to it that at least tries to determine who is likely to be at fault?

If I'm standing completely still and uncloaked and I get flattened by a friendly tank, no points for me. If I'm cloaked (and he can't see cloaks), no points for him. If I ran into the path of the tank which didn't change direction, probably no points for him?

I dunno, I suppose thinking about it - that could get really complicated.

Throwing a grenade into a bunch of friendlies though when enemies aren't nearby should be straightforward. As should straight killing of friendlies where there are no enemies within 50m of what you hit?

[Piper]

With modern netcode and faster servers, surely they could apply a little bit of logic to it that at least tries to determine who is likely to be at fault?


Who shot who first (or even more complex conditions), when determining grief play, is as I understand it from a dev' of a different game not as easy as you might think and can place quite a lot of strain on the server in some way that I don't now recall.

But er....dunno with the current tech, but avoiding strain on the server and just getting players to accept the grief merry-go-round (sometimes you get it, sometimes you cause it) is just easier to go with I bet.

[Tuoweit]

Suicide in PS1 was done sometimes to respawn, when in the arse end of nowhere, other times to deny your enemy your kill. The later really tended to wind some folks up. :D

I suppose it might wind some folks up - it always gave me a laugh at how petty the enemy was to kill themselves instead of just dying. :)

Let's just hope they don't do a copy/paste of PS1's grief system. You know, where you can be run over by a friendly tank from behind, and get grief points for scratching their paint while you're laying there dead on the side of the road :doh:

The PS1 system worked very well, persistent TKers were practically nonexistant. The amount of grief you accrue accidentally from stuff like being run over by a friendly tank was so minimal it was irrelevant - unless you were already racking up grief points, like if you did it purposely all the time in order to grief tank drivers by giving them grief points. THAT'S why collisions give grief to both parties.

[LightningDriver]

Let's just hope they don't do a copy/paste of PS1's grief system. You know, where you can be run over by a friendly tank from behind, and get grief points for scratching their paint while you're laying there dead on the side of the road :doh:

You absolutely should get grief points for footzerging in the middle of a road.

[Salad Snake]

I really like the proximity idea; if an enemy was within 3 meters of the friendly you shot chances are it wasn't intentional.



Also, how easy is it to run down friendlies with vehicles in this game? I would assume that a common griefing tactic would be to jump in front of friendly vehicles too late for them to change course from running you over. I would also assume a lot of teamkills trying to hover a Lib low enough for a squadmate to jump in. I know even light collisions with terrain in the build of the game we saw severely damaged your vehicle whether land or air. Are personnel collisions just as finicky?

[Nordan]

I'm sure you will have to pay for the game initially like any other game, f2p probably just means that there will be no monthly subscription cost.

[VaderShake]

F2P or P2P there have always been people that get off on being team killers in a game. PS2 grief system will be the 1st line of defense but with a robust VOIP system in game I would imagine dedicated team killers would be quickly identfied and regulated by the player base as well. On the other end what I don't want to see is someone over reacting calling for someones head when a person has an accidental friendly fire situation, this can be even more frustrating and disruptive to a game than a team killer.

[Sunrock]

On the other end what I don't want to see is someone over reacting calling for someones head when a person has an accidental friendly fire situation, this can be even more frustrating and disruptive to a game than a team killer.

I don't know it might teach the person to think before shooting quicker then being nice about it as he will remember the situation better if some one yelled at him.

Using negative reinforcement as a teaching tool is always quicker then using positive reinforcement as a teaching too.

However if the one that got killed by friendly fire can't drop the subject after 10 sec then I agree with you.

[Hamma]

Consistent team killing should result in electric shock.

[VaderShake]

I don't know it might teach the person to think before shooting quicker then being nice about it as he will remember the situation better if some one yelled at him.

Using negative reinforcement as a teaching tool is always quicker then using positive reinforcement as a teaching too.

However if the one that got killed by friendly fire can't drop the subject after 10 sec then I agree with you.

Often the person who is teamkilled unintentially is ussually to blame in the first place because they walk/drive/fly infront of friendly fire. From sone of the vids that have popped up online it seems allot of people will be walking infront of bullets and the one shooting them will be to blame.

[VikingKong]

I'm sure you will have to pay for the game initially like any other game, f2p probably just means that there will be no monthly subscription cost.
Nope, the only time money comes into it is when buying customisation tat and xp boosters from the in-game shop. It's free to download and free to play.

[Sunrock]

Often the person who is teamkilled unintentionally is usually to blame in the first place because they walk/drive/fly in front of friendly fire. From some of the vids that have popped up online it seems allot of people will be walking in front of bullets and the one shooting them will be to blame.

Well looking at the PS2 videos it does not really look at that the projectile is that slow so you can walk into friendly fire by accident if every one is paying attention.

But the main reason for friendly fire happens is lack of communication between operating units. So yea both can be blamed for it.

Nope, the only time money comes into it is when buying customisation tat and xp boosters from the in-game shop. It's free to download and free to play.

I wonder way they made it like that. Not like GW2's model for an example. Is it because they think the game won't be able to good enough?

[Boone]

Let's just hope they don't do a copy/paste of PS1's grief system. You know, where you can be run over by a friendly tank from behind, and get grief points for scratching their paint while you're laying there dead on the side of the road :doh:

It almost looks like they took out being able to run people over. I could be wrong, but the last TR stream I saw people getting hit and no issue. I personally wouldn't have an issue if they kept it out, but I'm sure people would find a way to be dicks about it.

I don't have a problem with FF at all. I just wonder how it's going to work with massive people ;).

[vVRedOctoberVv]

PS1 had about the most perfect TK system I've ever seen in a game. It's a problem anywhere, and the options are pretty much "have FF on, and watch asshats either deliberately or accidentally kill each other constantly" or "have FF off".

PS1 had enough flexibility that if you were even semi-careful, you didn't have to worry about the system. You could cap the occasional idiot, or mow down some dip who blocks your field of fire, without having to worry. BUT, if you got careless, or if you were to start TKing on a large scale deliberately, your weapons would lock in just a few minutes. It was truly as good as you're ever going to get.

As for "mass outfit TKers"... Imagine things much? Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely to happen? No. I mean, seriously. Even if all they have to do is create new accounts, etc, that's still a lot of trouble, especially if you're talking about multiple people having to do it. The TKers are out there, for sure, but they're usually pretty random in nature.

[Nordan]

Nope, the only time money comes into it is when buying customisation tat and xp boosters from the in-game shop. It's free to download and free to play.

Do you got some quote to back that up? Not to be rude I just want to be sure.

And if so then this worries me, because it probably means that there will be some beefy must-buy stuff in the shop :(

I'd much rather pay 45 € and then pay for skins and other small stuff

[Apathy]

I quite liked the PS1 grief system and I'll admit to having been locked before.

I was using a plasma grenade loaded thumper in a tower and managed to splash a lot of friendlies at point blank range a few times from cloakers trying to sneak downstairs in front. Funnily enough though, the thing that put me over into a weapon lock was flying a liberator and running into someone mid air who hot dropped out of a Galaxy flying over head. It was quite an anti climax to our bombing run to grind to a 4kph flight speed before we'd even started letting loose!

This forced me to play a more supportive role while my grief points deteriorated down to normal levels over the course of a few days. I played it cautiously as at 900+ points, the tinest infraction could cause another, much longer weapon lock. It's better to stay well clear of any weapons at that stage. This actually gave an insight into a different style of play.

It was lenient enough to allow for mistakes (I lost count how many cloakers I ran over in a Vanguard) and also gave you fair warning that you needed to be more careful as the grief points you gained increased. It was also strict enough that it could prevent someone from causing harm for a considerable amount of time if they didnt take more care. Not only that, but squad mates didn't give you grief, meaning the odd "In my line of fire" incidents were minimised considerably if you worked in a squad.

Whether the same system will work on a F2P game which in theory could allow for a rapid turn over of new characters, I dont know. Someone intent on being an arse wouldn't worry about weapon locks or lengthy penalties. They'll just delete and make a new character. Tracking IPs isn't ideal as a lot of people are provided dynamic IPs from their provider, although could work in the short term. At least with PS1s subscription based model, an investment/commitment was already made with the creation of an account and subscription.

[RoninOni]

Again, like quite a lot of what we seem to discuss, this could boil down to the nature of F2P accounts.

The grief system in PS1 works(ed) fine as a way to retain FF but require people to exercise restraint because we paid for our accounts. When you can have multiple free accounts er....

....mind you what we used to do about people who started this stuff, if diplomacy failed, was to get your entire outfit (if you're in one of course) to spawn camp them whenever they were seen. If the person in question really was that much of a pillock.

new/fresh F2P accounts will be rather restrictive in how they can harass players, and will likely have a VERY low tolerance for FF.

Also, I think they plan on having staff avail for a good chunk if not majority of time to moderate any complaints.... perhaps not, but I think they're planning on it.

[Revanmug]

Do you got some quote to back that up? Not to be rude I just want to be sure.

And if so then this worries me, because it probably means that there will be some beefy must-buy stuff in the shop :(

I'd much rather pay 45 € and then pay for skins and other small stuff

Dude, this topic has been discuss to death months ago. It is well known that the game is fully f2p with a cash shop for character customisation, booster pack and the possibility to buy weapon with cash rather than ingame ressource. Do your own school work from time to time.

[Infektion]

Well then the outfit GNAA#45 will disband and GNAA#46 will be founded. All with new accounts.

Sadly I'm not permitted to explain what GNAA stands for.


That's pretty homophobic and racist, did you get banned for this? I mean... I say shit or fuck and I get a PM... You say GNAA and your ass is clean? lol Jesus, you're a lucky son of a bitch.

[Nordan]

Dude, this topic has been discuss to death months ago. It is well known that the game is fully f2p with a cash shop for character customisation, booster pack and the possibility to buy weapon with cash rather than ingame ressource. Do your own school work from time to time.

From their official site:

"WHAT IS THE BUSINESS MODEL FOR PLANETSIDE 2?

We will have more information on this in the months ahead. Sign up to receive our email updates and like us on Facebook to be in the know."

So unless you got some official info to show me I'll stay sceptical to anything you say.

[Boone]

From their official site:

"WHAT IS THE BUSINESS MODEL FOR PLANETSIDE 2?

We will have more information on this in the months ahead. Sign up to receive our email updates and like us on Facebook to be in the know."

So unless you got some official info to show me I'll stay sceptical to anything you say.

It's pretty official at this point I'd say. If they decide to pull a baitnswitch they will lose a ton of customers which equates to a lot of lost money for them. It's pretty much skins, xp boosters, maybe some kind of cert boosters. You won't be able to buy Assault Rifle of Ass Kicking or anything which nobody else can get without paying real cash.

[VikingKong]

So unless you got some official info to show me I'll stay sceptical to anything you say.
Watch any PS2 interview ever. There's your official confirmation. '~'

[Revanmug]

From their official site:

"WHAT IS THE BUSINESS MODEL FOR PLANETSIDE 2?

We will have more information on this in the months ahead. Sign up to receive our email updates and like us on Facebook to be in the know."

So unless you got some official info to show me I'll stay sceptical to anything you say.

If you are unable to understand that the main site ain't update at all, there is not point to continue this conversation...

Those that actually follow the game from other source aka stream, blog, devs post, etc. will get knowledge of the game while you stick to your denial. Have fun.

[Nordan]

If you are unable to understand that the main site ain't update at all, there is not point to continue this conversation...

Those that actually follow the game from other source aka stream, blog, devs post, etc. will get knowledge of the game while you stick to your denial. Have fun.

What a pissy attitude you got there. What is the point in being on a forum if all you are going to do is bitch when people ask questions?

"If you are unable to understand that the main site ain't update at all, there is not point to continue this conversation... "

lmao, if anything it is the official site that should be adhered to.

[Hosp]

Consistent team killing should result in electric shock.

To put this thread back on track, I approve of this idea.

[Rat]

I still say keep friendly fire off until BR5 and use the old school grief system afterwards, that way if a asshat grieflocks and wants to open a new account to grief more atleast he would have to grind to lvl 5 to be able to grief again.

[Kipper]

I'm liking the idea of the PS1 grief system but with lower limits for newer accounts. That sounds like a good way of handling it.

I do think someone would have to be seriously into their TKing to even abandon/recreate ONE account, even that seems like an awful lot of messing about just to be a dick to strangers - but I guess it takes all kinds to make the world :)

[Rivenshield]

lmao, if anything it is the official site that should be adhered to.
Yep yep yep. What big companies revolve around (besides making money) are their contractual obligations. Smed can cheerfully tell us in a YouTube interview that we'll all have cybernetic war elephants in faction colors at launch... and if they aren't there, that constitutes neither false advertising nor breach of contract. The main web site is continually updated with new media and fresh information. Yet it remains coy as to the final business model they'll adopt. This is by design, folks.

I remain quietly convinced that charging for the client is the best single way to harden the target against multiboxers, script kiddies, spies, TKers, and other undesirables. Who the hell *wouldn't* pay $40 to play alongside thousands of other people on Sony's beefy servers? when every other FPS out there charges the same or more to play alongside 64- on somebody's crappy server in their college dorm?

[Nordan]

Yep yep yep. What big companies revolve around (besides making money) are their contractual obligations. Smed can cheerfully tell us in a YouTube interview that we'll all have cybernetic war elephants in faction colors at launch... and if they aren't there, that constitutes neither false advertising nor breach of contract. The main web site is continually updated with new media and fresh information. Yet it remains coy as to the final business model they'll adopt. This is by design, folks.

I remain quietly convinced that charging for the client is the best single way to harden the target against multiboxers, script kiddies, spies, TKers, and other undesirables. Who the hell *wouldn't* pay $40 to play alongside thousands of other people on Sony's beefy servers? when every other FPS out there charges the same or more to play alongside 64- on somebody's crappy server in their college dorm?

I agree on both accounts. Developers talk and promise a lot but in the end nothing is confirmed until you can read about it on their official site or in the newsletter. Surely I am not the only one who have fallen to naively believe in promises by the developers only to see something entirely different in the final product?

An initial cost, small or large, would make people careful about losing their accounts and it would most likely eliminate troll accounts.

[Hamma]

The game is 100% free to buy and 100% free to play. This has been mentioned in TONS of interviews both video and print. A quick Google search should yield the required information.

[Rivenshield]

The game is 100% free to buy and 100% free to play. This has been mentioned in TONS of interviews both video and print. A quick Google search should yield the required information.

/shrug

We'll see.

I reiterate: Talk is cheap and risk-free. Nothing is final until it goes on the main web site. Let's all please try and remember that.

[sgtbjack]

Just send it up to the chain of command, then the highest ranking person can send it down to all platoon leaders, and the guy will be dying every 3 seconds till he logs.

Plus theres a grief system, but also griefing's more of a problem with small scale games that divide there factions up with the inclusion of arena's, warzones, battlegrounds, and whatever you want to call them.

I wouldn't mind losing certs every time you commit fratracide though...

[Salad Snake]

Do you got some quote to back that up? Not to be rude I just want to be sure.

And if so then this worries me, because it probably means that there will be some beefy must-buy stuff in the shop :(

I'd much rather pay 45 € and then pay for skins and other small stuff

It is f2p because that is the direction the industry is going. 3 year ago the only free to play games were shallow and unpolished; with titles like LoL, TF2, and Blacklight, all of which are balanced and don't sell power, that is NOT the case anymore. Google it, there are many articles on the paradigm shift to the f2p business model.

Personally I'm glad it's f2p, it'll be a lot easier to convince people to try and it's a fitting model for a game that depends on having a lot of cannon fodder around.

[Nordan]

The game is 100% free to buy and 100% free to play. This has been mentioned in TONS of interviews both video and print. A quick Google search should yield the required information.

I did a google search and found nothing, at least on the first three pages. Free 2 play, sure, but nothing about free to buy/get.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

@Nordan

Then you didn't try very hard. Now, to go back on topic (glares at everyone arguing nonsense)

I like the idea of low-level characters having extra grief penalty. That makes a lot of sense and will help prevent account hoppers.

That said, I really don't think it's going to be that big a deal. Switching accounts every twenty minutes is kind of a pain in the ass. I don't foresee large numbers of people doing that.

[Syphus]

It is f2p because that is the direction the industry is going. 3 year ago the only free to play games were shallow and unpolished; with titles like LoL, TF2, and Blacklight, all of which are balanced and don't sell power, that is NOT the case anymore. Google it, there are many articles on the paradigm shift to the f2p business model.

Personally I'm glad it's f2p, it'll be a lot easier to convince people to try and it's a fitting model for a game that depends on having a lot of cannon fodder around.

/tangent

[Dkamanus]

An idea.

Make it like a player that kills more then 3 in less then a minute (excluding bombs and some others), become a free-4-all kill to the empire he's on for 2 hours (log out wouldn't get the debuff off. Since, at least in videos, you see a red name above the enemy, make the dude get a red name also for his empire (Branded a traitor), and he'll be Free kill. This would solve the problem of TKers who would fuck a good strategy for the lols.

And another thing. Friendly Fire is ON. I hate games where friendly fire is off, cause there are retards that can't hold the fingers from the trigger in order to NOT kill a teamplayer (he WANTS that kill and fuck the objectives). Kills in PS are a secondary, needed to complete the objectives, which is the primary goal.

[Salad Snake]

An idea.

Make it like a player that kills more then 3 in less then a minute (excluding bombs and some others), become a free-4-all kill to the empire he's on for 2 hours (log out wouldn't get the debuff off. Since, at least in videos, you see a red name above the enemy, make the dude get a red name also for his empire (Branded a traitor), and he'll be Free kill. This would solve the problem of TKers who would fuck a good strategy for the lols.

And another thing. Friendly Fire is ON. I hate games where friendly fire is off, cause there are retards that can't hold the fingers from the trigger in order to NOT kill a teamplayer (he WANTS that kill and fuck the objectives). Kills in PS are a secondary, needed to complete the objectives, which is the primary goal.


That's a good idea, but I'd make it around 7 people killed to be a traitor for 10 minutes or so, plenty of time to be hunted down.

[Dkamanus]

That's a good idea, but I'd make it around 7 people killed to be a traitor for 10 minutes or so, plenty of time to be hunted down.

I'd prefer a 2h Cooldown, for real. People not TKing (intensionally at least), would be able to avoid killing 5 teammates for 1 minute in a row. The Idea over a long CD would be to the smart ass to log off, kind of like a corner with the bumb hat.

He could do it again? Sure. Wonder how many hours he'd lose over the TKing.

[MaxDamage]

The grief system in Planetside 1 is adequate.
If you intentionally go on a bender, you get shut down.. ridiculously slow vehicles, inability to fire, and even if the timer expires, the grief level is high enough that it slaps another 15 or so minutes on if you grief again.

There is enough freedom to make mistakes with your AOE damage.
Constant kills = your gameplay over.

As for making new accounts if one gets banned or grief-locked.
Does sound like a potential problem, especially if/when cheats are created/discovered - same as it was when Planetside 1 went free to play for a year, and with trials.

[MonsterBone]

If I wanted to blast my outfit leader Evil Pig in the face with two duel Max scatterguns that should be my choice.

[Noon]

An idea.

Make it like a player that kills more then 3 in less then a minute (excluding bombs and some others), become a free-4-all kill to the empire he's on for 2 hours (log out wouldn't get the debuff off. Since, at least in videos, you see a red name above the enemy, make the dude get a red name also for his empire (Branded a traitor), and he'll be Free kill. This would solve the problem of TKers who would fuck a good strategy for the lols.

And another thing. Friendly Fire is ON. I hate games where friendly fire is off, cause there are retards that can't hold the fingers from the trigger in order to NOT kill a teamplayer (he WANTS that kill and fuck the objectives). Kills in PS are a secondary, needed to complete the objectives, which is the primary goal.

Neat idea, but before you know it; you will get stat padders.

Say me and a couple buddies go off to an empty location, one logs in on a joke account; we let him kill us, then we proceed to kill him over and over racking up points, and padding our K/D ratios.

Remember back when BF2 first launched, this was a big issue. You would get medics that would go around killing teammates, and then reviving them for the revive points.

Promoting TKing in anyway is a bad idea. Give negative exp/resources, give lockout timers, but don't justify it or make it easier for players to kill their teammates; its just counter productive.

[Papscal]

The game is 100% free to buy and 100% free to play. This has been mentioned in TONS of interviews both video and print. A quick Google search should yield the required information.

That just means you can download and "play" the game for free. Lets clear this up once and for all. If i and another player enter the game at the same time with zero play time at all, and one of us purchases nothing. And the other buys from the store. In the store can that person purchase ANTHING that can enhance his characters performance over the other brand new character??

Lets stop the play on words. IF,I as a player that has never purchased from the store, can not compete on the same level (as far as character ability level is concerned), as a player that does use the store, then the game is Free To Play/Pay to win. Not just Free To Play.

Set the record straight. Are there items in the store that enhance a characters ability's other than skins and fluff?????

[Noon]

That just means you can download and "play" the game for free. Lets clear this up once and for all. If i and another player enter the game at the same time with zero play time at all, and one of us purchases nothing. And the other buys from the store. In the store can that person purchase ANTHING that can enhance his characters performance over the other brand new character??

Lets stop the play on words. IF,I as a player that has never purchased from the store, can not compete on the same level (as far as character ability level is concerned), as a player that does use the store, then the game is Free To Play/Pay to win. Not just Free To Play.

Set the record straight. Are there items in the store that enhance a characters ability's other than skins and fluff?????

I believe exp pots are the only things of that nature; and thats hardly pay to win.

As far as I know, they've gone to ridiculous levels to keep the game balanced for casual players. Think there is supposedly something that even gives you a set percent amount of resources or experience (can't remember which, or if it was both) while your offline.

[Dkamanus]

That just means you can download and "play" the game for free. Lets clear this up once and for all. If i and another player enter the game at the same time with zero play time at all, and one of us purchases nothing. And the other buys from the store. In the store can that person purchase ANTHING that can enhance his characters performance over the other brand new character??

Lets stop the play on words. IF,I as a player that has never purchased from the store, can not compete on the same level (as far as character ability level is concerned), as a player that does use the store, then the game is Free To Play/Pay to win. Not just Free To Play.

Set the record straight. Are there items in the store that enhance a characters ability's other than skins and fluff?????

Experience boosts aren't pay-to-win. An automatic Rifle with a 1 bullet/1 kill would be. IF they decided to put it for sale on Station Cash. Which they won't.

The specifically stated a LoL bussiness model. Mostly cosmetic changes, colors, xp boosts, another char slot, stuff like that. NOTHING PAY TO WIN!

I played quite some LoL, and I never had the need to go buy anything, although I might consider it here for some camos, and stuff, depending on the price.

[Timealude]

i think they should just lock all weapons on that account after enough infractions

[Shogun]

after playing the game at gamescom with total strangers and noobs, i must say, a good grief system like we had in ps1 is a must.

most new players don´t even understand the concept of factions... they shoot everything that moves.

ok, at a convention where people try out the game for some minutes, it is a bigger problem than later when most players actualy know what they are doing, but teamkilling will be a big problem if there is no system.

i would say, take the ps1 system, tweak it a little and we are good to go.
the problem of being run over by every single tank that comes along should be gone for good with the better netcode of ps2. in ps1 it was just impossible to avoid a tank because you could never predict where it would warp. in ps2 the tanks move logical and you can actually avoid being run over or running over someone yourself unintentionally.

BUT the weapon lockdown should only wear off in gametime, not realtime. so getting locked at the end of a playsession still affects the next day! and logging out doesn´t magically reactivate your weapons.

[Harasus]

From a stream, I saw Higby teamkill a few guys. He eventually got warned that "This is your last warning". Not sure what would happen after that.

I like the forgive/punish system that some games have implemented, if someone is punished enough times, lock them out of the game for a couple of hours or something similar. Locking weapons, giving the TKer less damage on all weapons, putting a big "Suspected teamkiller" title on them or anything like that is also possible. Just suggestions.

Oh, and costing resources is also a great idea.

[Unknownymous]

Some servers on mount and blade had a system that converted all friendly fire into damage to the one doing it.
It still discourages spamming grenades and spray&pray, but also makes it so you aren't the one paying for the trigger happy allies mistakes. Plus they learn quickly if it directly impacts them.

Although its not very realistic.

[Harasus]

Some servers on mount and blade had a system that converted all friendly fire into damage to the one doing it.
It still discourages spamming grenades and spray&pray, but also makes it so you aren't the one paying for the trigger happy allies mistakes. Plus they learn quickly if it directly impacts them.

Although its not very realistic.

That system works, but it does not feel good for immersion and gameplay. Not to mention that people can run in front of your shots and grief you that way.

[Ghostwithbroken]

I have a simple solution.


When some guy kills his teamate. The dead guy can choose to forgive or not. If he chooses to punish his teamate, he will be ejected from his vehicle, disarmed, and converted into a field medic class until he archieves some amount of supporting points.

Field medics can revive allies OVERTIME (so it can't be very abusable), and can heal allies overtime. When he reaches some support point goal, he will be able to respawn as a normal class.

It will prevent the trolls from killing the rest, since he will need to help the fallen ally in order to start shooting again. But it should prevent some abuses in the game. Like,
killing a 3hp teamate MAX unit, then bringing him back to life.

[Monsta]

I have a simple solution.
When some guy kills his teamate. The dead guy can choose to forgive or not. If he chooses to punish his teamate, he will be ejected from his vehicle, disarmed, and converted into a field medic class until he archieves some amount of supporting points.

No. You don't want to revenge your team mate.

Instead of having a popup asking for forgiveness, you should get a popup asking to make a complaint. TKs will happen a lot, mostly by exident. If the team killers gets too many complains within a specific time the system should activate its stuff that makes it no longer fun to play for a short period. (thinking of slowing down player speed, weapon spread, etc)

What we see in other shooters, is that its quicker for a medic heal a buddy by shooting you down first (if you are low health) and then revive you (instead of spending to many seconds of fixing you up).

[Harasus]

I have a simple solution.


When some guy kills his teamate. The dead guy can choose to forgive or not. If he chooses to punish his teamate, he will be ejected from his vehicle, disarmed, and converted into a field medic class until he archieves some amount of supporting points.

Field medics can revive allies OVERTIME (so it can't be very abusable), and can heal allies overtime. When he reaches some support point goal, he will be able to respawn as a normal class.

It will prevent the trolls from killing the rest, since he will need to help the fallen ally in order to start shooting again. But it should prevent some abuses in the game. Like,
killing a 3hp teamate MAX unit, then bringing him back to life.

Harsh, but fun and interesting.

"Alright, soldier! You have one chance to prove yourself on the battlefield again after that incident: You will go out there, with no weapons and no permission to drive any vehicles, you will take this medikit and you will do some good deeds!"

[Harasus]

No. You don't want to revenge your team mate.

Instead of having a popup asking for forgiveness, you should get a popup asking to make a complaint. TKs will happen a lot, mostly by exident. If the team killers gets too many complains within a specific time the system should activate its stuff that makes it no longer fun to play for a short period. (thinking of slowing down player speed, weapon spread, etc)

What we see in other shooters, is that its quicker for a medic heal a buddy by shooting you down first (if you are low health) and then revive you (instead of spending to many seconds of fixing you up).

1. Making a complaint against a guy you might never meet again... I have a feeling that most people will just skip that, and go back to play as soon as possible again without punishing.
2. What you say there is a problem with the heal system, not the teamkilling. Either make revives take more time, or make normal heals faster. Or use some kind of medijuice.

The way I see it, if you teamkill 5 guys in short order and none of them forgive you, you should be punished.
But if you teamkill 5 guys in short order and none of them bother to make a complaint because hey, action...

Sorry about the doublepost.

[Ghostwithbroken]

Harsh, but fun and interesting.

"Alright, soldier! You have one chance to prove yourself on the battlefield again after that incident: You will go out there, with no weapons and no permission to drive any vehicles, you will take this medikit and you will do some good deeds!"

Yup, that what I was thinking about. You will get some rest from pewpewpewing, and playing some support role. Should have superior movespeed, and thats all. I guess it would be fun running from bullets from time to time and healing your buds.


@Monster
Í've already put in caps that reviving should be OVERTIME, so it wouldn't be abusable... :)

[Nordan]

Some servers on mount and blade had a system that converted all friendly fire into damage to the one doing it.
It still discourages spamming grenades and spray&pray, but also makes it so you aren't the one paying for the trigger happy allies mistakes. Plus they learn quickly if it directly impacts them.

Although its not very realistic.

To be honest, it is not a very fun system because it punishes you for accidents. So yeah, I threw a spear at you and it is now stuck on your shoulder, but it was an accident!!!

[Crator]

I'm just going to say, I personally dislike the PS1 grief system, reason being that you accrue grief points for every hit on a teammate, rather than an actual TK. I think BF2 had a great system, whereby if you were teamkilled by someone you could vote whether to punish or to forgive. A system like that is of course open to abuse, but it allows for a lot more leniency.

If I get TK'd by a tank that was intending to bombard an enemy, I'd like to be able to forgive that person. Conversely, if I rush forward to throw a plasma grenade into a room of crowded TR and a squad behind me decides to run in, I'd really rather not be blamed for them taking damage. (Both of these things happened yesterday on Forseral)

I think this would be a great feature for the TK system. I must say, and doesn't look like anyone else here has said it yet, those with lag/FPS issues have a hard time not hitting a friendly. With this game being F2P I'm sure we'll have plenty of folks with lag/FPS issues.

[Hosp]

The original grief system in PS1 was more than adequate as far as grief goes. Combine it with that fact TTK is faster, it means people have to be smarter about it.

The only issue is the F2P and constantly making new accounts for griefing.

Possible Solutions:

1) New Characters earn grief 5x faster. and it will lowered 1x per level until it's at the level everyone else is at. This needs be combined with a forgive function because it's going to be a new game for alot of people and accidents happen.

2) Only use a Forgive function and after X amount of grief points are accrued flag them as an enemy of the state. Normal grief functions take over after Level 5 (or whatever level).

3) New characters are required to go through a 30 minute+/- bootcamp (the time it took to run through the tutorials of PS1 + sit in all the vehicle guns). This could award a level as well, but no forgive system afterward and the high grief gain w/ reduction per level is in place. (as in option 1)

will add more options. Going out to lunch ;)

[BogusMcMuffin]

I don't really know a solution to the teamkilling, but it could be that when everyone creates a new account they'd have to play for about 12 hours in-game, and/or reach at least level 5 or something that'd take about 12 hours (dunno how much time would it be) so TK-ers would have to work for their precious teamkills. :p

[VaderShake]

I have a simple solution.


When some guy kills his teamate. The dead guy can choose to forgive or not. If he chooses to punish his teamate, he will be ejected from his vehicle, disarmed, and converted into a field medic class until he archieves some amount of supporting points.

Field medics can revive allies OVERTIME (so it can't be very abusable), and can heal allies overtime. When he reaches some support point goal, he will be able to respawn as a normal class.

It will prevent the trolls from killing the rest, since he will need to help the fallen ally in order to start shooting again. But it should prevent some abuses in the game. Like,
killing a 3hp teamate MAX unit, then bringing him back to life.

Sounds like a peace loving hippy socialist Vanu + TR solution to me...

[Nemises]

surely it'll be grief over time?
if you generate x amount of grief over y time then "unspecified-punishment" is automatically invoked...... vehicle spawn delay increases....respawn delay increases ... removal of squad spawn....removal of implants....ejected from game for 5 minutes.....

[Ghostwithbroken]

Sounds like a peace loving hippy socialist Vanu + TR solution to me...

Damn, and I'm playing NC.

[Buggsy]

Grief system worked just fine in PS1. I don't remember anyone abusing it.