UPDATE: 12 Man Squads Returning & 48 Man Platoons

[Hamma]

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/233756332841390080

10 man squads. Done deal. We're on it.

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/233759368309522432

We went with 6 because of squad spawning: hard to neutralize a 10 man squad and vehicle capacity: transport vehicles held 2 full squads.

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/233759506654441473

But, it's just as easy for us to go with 10, we have a new squad spawn method coming soon, so it's not as big of a problem anymore.

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/233760075825692672

Correct. RT @CDLHamma: @mhigby squad beacons of some sort?

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/233760679717384192

Of course. RT @Vladario: @mhigby @CDLHamma Will there be platoon capability just like in PS1?

And now 12 man:

We are upping squad size to 12 man.

https://twitter.com/j_smedley/status/234083134684164096

@CDLHamma @j_smedley we're going to do 4 squads for a platoon, so total of 48 platoon members.

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/234084483849125888

[badboyss]

Please let me join your team, although I do not have the privilege

E-mail: [email protected] please give me the privilege

[Hamma]

:confused:

[Khagan Impi]

I think he's under the impression that you have a 10 man squad which he would very much like to join.

EDIT: He appears to be a foreign planetside 2 enthusiast who wants a beta key?

[JPalmer]

And now Platoons will be able to support 5 squads. Sweeet.

[Graywolves]

This is good. Step in the right direction. I'm interested in seeing how personnel management and command tools will evolve over time.

[Jeepo]

This is a good thing and makes me happy to see the devs answer. Jesus I remember BF3........no dev answers and a fail game (IMHO).

[Duskguy]

so we are back to 10 man squads?

im a bit confused on the whole thing. i heard 10 man squads a while ago, 4 to a platoon, and then lately, 6 man squads, 4-5 to a platoon.
are we now at 10 man squads and 5 to a platoon, 4 to a platoon or what?

[Stardouser]

Understanding that squad spawn should always be on the leader only(or, indeed, now, on the beacon only) , going with 6 man squads would have made squad spawning even more powerful, not less. Because the more you split up a force, the more squad leaders(or indeed, now, beacons) there will be. The more people per squad, the more it hurts when the leader(or indeed, beacon) is killed.

[Rivenshield]

>new squad spawn method coming soon

Hmmmm....

AMS? :D

[capiqu]

Wow I wish . I could picture a bunch of AM's deployed On the TR highlands with TR after TR constantly re-spawning running down the ridges 100's, 1000's of TR's and the VS on their low lands meeting the TR on the foothills. Kinda like The Trailer except it would be the VS off the hills and the TR on the high ground. AMS's constantly keeping the flow of fresh Soldiers in that battle. That would bring the epicness of that trailer into playing experience. Of course on the other side it could be the NC on their high lands and the VS on the low lands.

[james]

Very nice, for squad spawning i would love some type of equipment, you should be able to spawn right behind a squad mate as he is being shoot

[PhoenixDog]

>new squad spawn method coming soon

Hmmmm....

AMS? :D

Nope, deploy-able squad beacon laid by a squad leader. Rumor has it, while default for testing purposes, will be required to be spec'd into though a cert tree.

Very nice, for squad spawning i would love some type of equipment, you should be able to spawn right behind a squad mate as he is being shoot

You mean shouldn't...You shouldn't be able to spawn right behind a squad mate as he is being shot. You shouldn't be able to spawn on squadMATES period.

[Arcsilver]

I hope they aren't getting rid of drop pods or something

[maddoggg]

Nice,i like this.
The more the merrier :)

[Eggy]

I thought the plan was to start with 6 people squads and then as the SL spent cert points and thus (hopefully) increased in skill there max squad size increased upto 10, or even 12. Is this not workable?

[Sulaco]

I thought the plan was to start with 6 people squads and then as the SL spent cert points and thus (hopefully) increased in skill there max squad size increased upto 10, or even 12. Is this not workable?

This sounds like a great idea. As squad leader experience/certs increase = more responsibility and capabilities. Love it.

[Kitsune]

I hope they aren't getting rid of drop pods or something

A part of me wishes they were. Kinda see people abusing them to no end when the servers get full. I know you have to cert into them now but still... Anyway, the 10 man squads sounds fun. A bit large for a "squad" but fun.

[Hamma]

I don't see them removing drop pods.

[Eduard Khil]

Great news are great.

The size of squads is very dependant on conflict size, if the conflict is between 2k people, it is obvious that you will need bigger squads in order allow teamplay to actually matter in it.

[Duskguy]

wondering what the spawn system will be like. beacons, leader only, leader only beacons, will be interesting to see what they do being that (i believe) they were saying they didnt want players to just be able to drop on anyone as you would never wipe out a large squad.

[ringring]

A part of me wishes they were. Kinda see people abusing them to no end when the servers get full. I know you have to cert into them now but still... Anyway, the 10 man squads sounds fun. A bit large for a "squad" but fun.
No 10 man squads will be fine .... we've had it in PS for years and years ...

hopefully Matt still intends to add in the zone of influence to prevent drop podding into a main base.

[berzerkerking]

the more we we get together

[rhilir]

i am so happy this is comming back. I like that they listen to what people say.

[kertvon]

Size Always Matters.

[brighthand]

This is a good thing and makes me happy to see the devs answer. Jesus I remember BF3........no dev answers and a fail game (IMHO).

I know. These devs seem to be different, they are actually rectifying certain emergent contingencies- a foreign concept in today's gaming industry.

[CutterJohn]

Ten works better. 6 man squads is a bad call, because gals hold 12. Which means with 6 man squads you can't have dedicated gal pilots. With ten it works perfectly, you can have a dedicated gal + his gunner doing drops of full squads.

[Naz The Eternal]

And now Platoons will be able to support 5 squads. Sweeet.

I must have missed that tweet, could you link it please?

www.ToxinGamers.com - Posted via Tapatalk

[Goldeh]

I like ten because it's a psychologically pleasing number..

Like the 10 Commandments :D

Or the Top Ten Youtube-whatevers

Never top 6.. Or the 6 Commandments...Jesus..

[Rat]

sweet...6 man squads just didnt look right.

[MrBloodworth]

I had no idea they left.

I can't even understand the reason they would make it 6.

Copypasta?

[RoninOni]

I had no idea they left.

I can't even understand the reason they would make it 6.

Copypasta?

They made it 6 because of the squad spawn system.... which they're overhauling to be less OP/obnoxious/detrimental to frontline warfare while also allowing for larger squads.

[Json]

My concern now is that a platoon of 50 people is waaay too much and I also believe a platoon should be able to consist of N squads + the platoon leader and not make the alpha squad leader the platoon leader.

Although maybe it could be more fluent and dynamic if a platoon, for arguments sake, can have a maximum of 30 members, and consist of 15 squads with 2 members per squad. This would allow for more custom made structures where a tank platoon might want each tank to be a squad but for air a group could be a wing of 5 aircraft and for infantry a squad could be 10 or whatever works.

Maybe this would just confuse people though.

[MrBloodworth]

They made it 6 because of the squad spawn system....

Why would that have anything to do with it?

[Graywolves]

A 40-50 person platoon is easily manageable if squad leaders do their job. Even if they don't the good thing about this being a game and the ease of communication is that the PL/OC can just direct each squad to their respective locations himself. **edit** It's much better than a smaller platoon and I think in the future there should be tools implemented to improve the synergy between multiple platoons.


Increasing squad size through certs/advancement would be a leadership's logistics nightmare. You'd have to ask everyone "Who can hold a 10 man squad?" It restricts your ability to consolidate and manage your forces because 1 or 2 squad leaders don't have the certs.

[RoninOni]

Why would that have anything to do with it?

Because in current implementation it's not a Sqd Ldr only spawn... it's an ANY squad member spawn... so a 10 man squad would be virtually IMPOSSIBLE to wipe out and send back to base.

It's being changed to a BEACON spawn that only the squad leader can place. (like the CGI trailer)...

[Hamma]

And now 12 man:

We are upping squad size to 12 man.

https://twitter.com/j_smedley/status/234083134684164096

[Hamma]

And 4 squads per platoon for 48 member platoons.

@CDLHamma @j_smedley we're going to do 4 squads for a platoon, so total of 48 platoon members.

https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/234084483849125888

[Mastachief]

12 man squads of awesomes, thats great. But i must say that like many thing this should have been a feature from day dot.


Looks like there is a long hard fought road ahead to make planetside2 a game that contains some actual planetside.

[Baneblade]

Fascinating.

[RoninOni]

12 man squads of awesomes, thats great. But i must say that like many thing this should have been a feature from day dot.


Looks like there is a long hard fought road ahead to make planetside2 a game that contains some actual planetside.

Over critical much? :eek:

You stop to think why it was lowered?

They're playing with the new squad spawn system. In it's current existing state it's a spawn on any squad member drop pod..... ..... ....

If they had 10-12 man squads......

how hard do you think it would be to wipe them out?


Well that's changing (zOMG, from beta feedback!) to a Squad Leader deployed static and destroyable squad beacon.

This shift in the squad spawn mechanic suddenly allows for much bigger squads.

"Should have been that way from day 1"
They aren't omnipotent ffs... they're adding in all kinds of new mechanics that they (planetside dev team) have not balanced around before, and that NO ONE has on such a massive scale.

There's going to be a bit of trial and error to the process.

[BlueSkies]

Over critical much? :eek:

You stop to think why it was lowered?

They're playing with the new squad spawn system. In it's current existing state it's a spawn on any squad member drop pod..... ..... ....

If they had 10-12 man squads......

how hard do you think it would be to wipe them out?


Well that's changing (zOMG, from beta feedback!) to a Squad Leader deployed static and destroyable squad beacon.

This shift in the squad spawn mechanic suddenly allows for much bigger squads.

"Should have been that way from day 1"
They aren't omnipotent ffs... they're adding in all kinds of new mechanics that they (planetside dev team) have not balanced around before, and that NO ONE has on such a massive scale.

There's going to be a bit of trial and error to the process.

Stop being reasonable, it is completely inappropriate on a gaming forum...


:D

[Zebasiz]

Neat!
And with 12 man squads the Galaxy can hold a full squad without having some seats left over. Though if the more seats perk is true then it's possible we'll have Galaxys carrying a full squad, with spots left over for dedicated gunners after the squad drops...

[Toppopia]

I think how the platoon leader should control his platoon, is by playing like a real time strategy game, he gives way points and objectives to squad leaders, then the squad leaders decide how to carry out those objectives. This, mind you would only work if everyone was working together, or else you would have a squad being stupid and not following orders, so maybe an xp boost to normal actions if a squad member is killing people/capturing near a platoon leader set objective. This could be awesome if done correctly, and i trust the developers to do it correctly. :)

[Mastachief]

Over critical much? :eek:

You stop to think why it was lowered?

They're playing with the new squad spawn system. In it's current existing state it's a spawn on any squad member drop pod..... ..... ....

If they had 10-12 man squads......

how hard do you think it would be to wipe them out?


Well that's changing (zOMG, from beta feedback!) to a Squad Leader deployed static and destroyable squad beacon.

This shift in the squad spawn mechanic suddenly allows for much bigger squads.

"Should have been that way from day 1"
They aren't omnipotent ffs... they're adding in all kinds of new mechanics that they (planetside dev team) have not balanced around before, and that NO ONE has on such a massive scale.

There's going to be a bit of trial and error to the process.

Nope not even close to over critical. I'll call it experienced and leave it at that. wiping out a 10man squad even with multi member squad spawning is easy. Limiting the squads to 6 does not stop 10 - 20 - 30 - 40 man squad spawning outfit groups. VOIP ftw.

[Goku]

And 4 squads per platoon for 48 member platoons.



https://twitter.com/mhigby/status/234084483849125888

BF fans are going to go nuts over the squad/platoon numbers. I remember the stink over BC2/BF3 having less vs BF2.

[Duskguy]

i noticed someone had posted about a galaxy crew or something with a dedicated pilot and gunner and a full squad dropping.... now it seems the gunner and pilot can be a part of that squad.

this is going to lead to very interesting squads i think. especially with an outfit platoon. they can have ground assault, a galaxy air support both fighters and liberators and ground vehicles. or hell, a pair of galaxies, air support and tank/ sunderer support. the combinations are endless with such large squads and platoons. and i think it could work out well.

[RoninOni]

Nope not even close to over critical. I'll call it experienced and leave it at that. wiping out a 10man squad even with multi member squad spawning is easy. Limiting the squads to 6 does not stop 10 - 20 - 30 - 40 man squad spawning outfit groups. VOIP ftw.

well when asked why 6 man squads they said it was because of the spawn system that they're changing :shrug:

[rTekku]

BF fans are going to go nuts over the squad/platoon numbers. I remember the stink over BC2/BF3 having less vs BF2.

Yep. DICE thought it was a good idea to go with 4 man squads over 6 thanks to derp spawning (aka squad spawn) instead of bringing back the spawn on squad leader only system they had in place.

[RoninOni]

i noticed someone had posted about a galaxy crew or something with a dedicated pilot and gunner and a full squad dropping.... now it seems the gunner and pilot can be a part of that squad.

this is going to lead to very interesting squads i think. especially with an outfit platoon. they can have ground assault, a galaxy air support both fighters and liberators and ground vehicles. or hell, a pair of galaxies, air support and tank/ sunderer support. the combinations are endless with such large squads and platoons. and i think it could work out well.

I'd regularly play the black hawk pilot for my squads, ferrying them from flag to flag and usually, but not always, keeping 1 gunner on board.

I'll def be doing some Gal piloting... and Lib.... and well, lots and lots and lots of fighters :D :D :D

Yep. DICE thought it was a good idea to go with 4 man squads over 6 thanks to derp spawning (aka squad spawn) instead of bringing back the spawn on squad leader only system they had in place.

well Planetside team tried first copying that derp spawning (albeit using drop pods... far better immersion wise) which is exactly what led to the smaller squad size, just as it did for battlefield.

Thankfully, this is an actual beta, and the team is taking feedback to heart and working with it.

I can't wait to start helping and really see this game evolve.

No pressure or anything, but I expect planetside to be my game for years to come. Their long term wish list board...
:jawdrop:

[Harasus]

Pretty nice. I like.

[Graywolves]

This is great. Still interested in seeing updates on leadership management tools up to and beyond launch.

[Zehtuka]

Great news!

[Memeotis]

For me 10-12 is perfect, anything less and the squads seem to be too small for a game with this kind of scale, anything more and it seems it would become impossible for a squad leader to micro-manage the squad.

I also really hope they make the squad-spawn squad leader- and beacon-only. This would really make the squad leader a bigger focal point in a squad and make the squad members want to protect him. 12 seem to be a good move, also because of things like being able to fill up vehicles and whatnot.

And don't forget, just because 12 is the limit doesn't mean you can't be in a squad of just 4, 6 or 8. :D

[exLupo]

Money's on squad size being tied to SL certs.

[Kyros]

I'd prefer 5 squads of 10. It gives the platoon commander an extra squad to work with, 10 is still a decent size, and it's a flat 50 so the OCD ones don't have to flip out.

[Ivam Akorahil]

Please let me join your team, although I do not have the privilege

E-mail: [email protected] please give me the privilege

you again, maybe you want to use some different words for a change to clarify what the heck you brabble about ? :rolleyes:

and to the topic

squad made of 12, with 3 fireteams in it @4 people, gives perfect class/weapon distribution
4 squads make a platoon, good too, allmost like in real life, i like it

[Shogun]

now that´s good news!

and it´s a proof that the beta is a real developement beta and not the usual marketing crap demo of the finished game!

that´s exactly what i want a beta to be! the devs put in their ideas, the testers try them out and the devs collect data and feedback to see if the new systems work or need a change!

cheers !

a squadsize of 6 would be a big step back from ps1. good they are changing this!
big platoons were a lot of fun and a powerful tool for coordinated attacks.

[CutterJohn]

i noticed someone had posted about a galaxy crew or something with a dedicated pilot and gunner and a full squad dropping.... now it seems the gunner and pilot can be a part of that squad.

No. Before they could be a part of the squad. Now they have to be a part of the squad.

Gal's and Sundy's need to have 1 or 2 spare seats so that people can be dedicated pilots carrying entire squads without having to leave someone behind.

If the pilot is a member of the squad, then there will be spare seats. No biggy.

Gal should have 13 or 14 seats now if squads are going to be 12.

[Memeotis]

No. Before they could be a part of the squad. Now they have to be a part of the squad.

Gal's and Sundy's need to have 1 or 2 spare seats so that people can be dedicated pilots carrying entire squads without having to leave someone behind.

If the pilot is a member of the squad, then there will be spare seats. No biggy.

Gal should have 13 or 14 seats now if squads are going to be 12.

In the theater presentation they mentioned that Galaxies could carry up to 20, but I'm assuming that it would be at the expense of being able to deploy it as a spawn point. 12 squad size is good, because that would mean a galaxy having 12 as its max capacity is designed to deploy, and when it's deployed you don't need the pilot to remain in the vehicle. The 20-man version will be the drop-ship galaxy.

[Figment]

:confused:

Yeah Hamma, stop hogging the teamspots and let us in your team already. :lol:

(Hamma just wants to fly Galaxies solo, all pimped out with horns on top and red D-Day racing stripes).

[Blackwolf]

In the theater presentation they mentioned that Galaxies could carry up to 20, but I'm assuming that it would be at the expense of being able to deploy it as a spawn point. 12 squad size is good, because that would mean a galaxy having 12 as its max capacity is designed to deploy, and when it's deployed you don't need the pilot to remain in the vehicle. The 20-man version will be the drop-ship galaxy.

Well if we follow that logic. The Galaxy Dropship should be able to hold 24 (two full squads). That would be a sight to see!

I like the idea of a full squad being dedicated to a Galaxy Spawn point. 2 MAX suits for serious AA/AV coverage and 10 infantry for repair/medical and infantry support around a spawn point. Couple of Engineers for the gun emplacements, things would get done.

[Bruttal]

SWEEET. vary glad they ended up uping the squad/plat sizes

[super pretendo]

sounds cool, 12 is the galaxy capacity if I recall

[TheBladeRoden]

Glad they changing gears from tailoring the squad to fit the spawn system to tailoring the spawn system to fit the squad

[Attackmack]

I wish they would remove squadspawning altogether.
There seem to be more then enough possible spawnpoints. Maybe return the AMS aswell.

Awell, It might be good anyways.

[Sunrock]

Anyone know way they decided to go from 10 to 12? Was it to be able to get a good amount of all the classes into a squad or?

[Kipper]

For me, if they take a copy of BF2142 with the squad beacon that allows you to target it it with drop pod - then they win, there's no flaws to that system.

As an attacker, you have to actually secure an area - even for a few seconds - to deploy and get some use out of a spawn beacon. So you can't just deploy and run away (well you can, but your beacon will get destroyed).

As a defender, you have a visual cue that there's a beacon nearby because its raining drop pods in the area around it. That gives you a reason to get organised, and take the beacon out to lift the pressure.

Beacon should be a cert, it should take a few seconds to deploy and undeploy (but should be moveable) and it should either be visible on the minimap, or visible by the fact that spawning to it is via the drop pod system. They should be able to take a couple of grenade hits, maybe have a very slow self repair, but die to one brick of explosive or a tank shell/lib bomb.

For me, these are the only ways I think you should be able to spawn:

1. In a friendly facility with no (or a very short) re-spawn timer. Timer increases for each control point that is lost, until the base changes hands. Spawns from tubes.

2. From a deployed/landed Galaxy with a short respawn timer. Can fly, can defend itself, but easily spotted and makes a very juicy target. Takes maybe 10 seconds to deploy/undeploy. Spawns directly (from tubes, no drop pods).

3. From a deployed/stationary Sunderer with a medium respawn timer. Can move, can defend itself, easily spotted (but not as much as a gal) and a fairly juicy target. Takes maybe 5 seconds to deploy/undeploy. Spawns directly (from tubes, no drop pods)

4. Field beacon - takes up a modification slot; can be carried by anyone in a squad (not just the leader). Can be moved by a person (lockable to owner/squad/outfit), Takes perhaps 3 seconds to deploy and hard to spot directly (but can be located by seeing where pods re landing), spawns via drop pod. Obviously can't be dropped where a pod can't reach it - so on roofs, yes - but indoors, no.

5. (Maybe) - Drop pod to friendly territory; can only drop into a hex that your faction controls and that isn't immediately adjacent to an enemy hex. Again, drop pods are visible and this is a good way to quickly organise a group for a flanking move or defensively but without it being too OP for attacking.

[Memeotis]

From all the footage I've seen so far, I'm also starting to think that there shouldn't be squad-spawn. There should only be a deployable beacon that only squad(or platoon)-mates should be able to access. It shouldn't be too hard to spot, but it shouldn't be visible from miles away. And I think timers should still apply.

This way if a drop-pod lands on your aircraft or vehicle, you can truly say it was your own fault for not seeing the beacon. The no-warning, no-indicator drop-pod mechanic they have now is really poor.

Being relatively easy to spot, easy to destroy and by having five minute cooldown to use makes it a nice situational alternative to the Galaxy. And by limiting it to only squads (or platoons) it will make it less powerful than the Galaxy and thus justify it being an inexpensive (if not free) item.

[Harasus]

Anyone know way they decided to go from 10 to 12? Was it to be able to get a good amount of all the classes into a squad or?

They took it from 6 to 12, not 10 to 12. I think you can guess yourself why the did that.

Tip: 6-man squads suck.

[Anabuki]

I also second the beacon idea. Battlefield: Project Reality has a similar but simpler feature called a Rally Point that the squad leader can drop, and squadmates can spawn on the rally point. It has to be well concealed so the enemy can't cut off reinforcements, but it has a faint radio chatter noise that anyone can hear if they're nearby, so it's not impossible for the enemy to find.

[Crator]

I wish they would remove squadspawning altogether.
There seem to be more then enough possible spawnpoints. Maybe return the AMS aswell.

Awell, It might be good anyways.

+1 I totally agree with this!

[Duskguy]

They took it from 6 to 12, not 10 to 12. I think you can guess yourself why the did that.

Tip: 6-man squads suck.

they went from 10 to 6 to 10 and now 12, so he is right in asking about 10 to 12 man squads.

and honestly, with a 12 man galaxy and a 12 man squad, i can understand wanting the whole squad being able to fit while a random pilot and gunner defended it and now no longer being able to do that.

but think of it this way. if it is a squad mate, or two, you KNOW that the pilot is reliable and the gunner not just someone afk.

and we have not seen the certs, its possible a cert or two will expand the space in the galaxy while others give better armor or something.

[Kipper]

Just because you set up as a squad doesn't mean you have to all go everywhere together (unless there's extra XP for being together of course, then it does).

It's fair to say you could easily have a 12 man squad and leave 4 back at the galaxy to defend it.

It's equally fair to say you could have a 12 man squad who are actually three teams of 4 who fly galaxies for other squads (of 8 each).

Anything could happen!

I support larger squads though, 12 sounds like a number that could actually have an effect on a situation. Whereas 6 sounds like a number that could get cut down quite quickly.