SmedBlog: Harvestable Resources

[Hamma]

I'm doing targeted feedback threads on all items from Smed's Blog (http://john-smedley.livejournal.com/2412.html). This one is for player harvesting.

Harvestable resources - imagine SC II style resource harvesting with physical vehicles doing the mining or the harvesting.
Thoughts!

[Mox]

This could be a nice thing.

I imagine some huge harvester vecs with turrets for players.

Something like movable capturepoints.

[Blackwolf]

Moveable capture points has some potential.

Weak harvesters like Star Craft II that are susceptible to air and ground raids would force players to guard them. Depending on effectiveness, it might generate a great aspect of battle, or it might force players into a boring position.

[ComerEste]

Honestly, while killing people in PS2 will always be fun, it would be interesting if there were other elements besides killing people. I am definitely looking forward to them letting us build our own bases/towers/outposts in the future and it would be awesome if this was part of it. Like you have to use the minerals these things gather to upgrade your base, so they become another strategic asset to defend/attack.:cool:

[ringring]

I don't mind as a concept.

However the questions that occur to me is why would you do it?

Would the resources you harvest accrue to you? To your outfit? To your squad? To your empire?

I'd presume harvesters (oh god it sounds like fishing in rift when I say that) can be attacked to prevent them from doing it?

It does make you wonder that they took ant runs out because they wer boring, alledgedly, but then are thinking about introducing this. :huh:

[VikingPignvin]

Taking a spec ops team to take out theese harvester and cut the enemys resource income :) would be amazing

[Zebasiz]

Well, People were sad the ANT was gone. But now it seems we got another gatherer. :)
Depending on how they do it it reminds me a lot of Mining runs in EVE. Groups having to have ships to guard the miners.

[Akrasjel Lanate]

By proposing Harvestable resources he also wants to say that conquered space wont generate engouth resources to support a player needs for vehicles and suff. And that it require more resources, itherwise such option wouldnt have a point.

[ringring]

By proposing Harvestable resources he also wants to say that conquered space wont generate engouth resources to support a player needs for vehicles and suff. And that it require more resources, itherwise such option wouldnt have a point.

True. .

link this to additional vehicles that require special rare resources .. it's all getting a bit rpg, gathering, crafting....

[Zebasiz]

True. .

link this to additional vehicles that require special rare resources .. it's all getting a bit rpg, gathering, crafting....

Well a big part of war is the logistics of supplies. This could be a neat way to make the war have a bit more depth. Protecting supply lines etc. Rather than just defending bases.

[Akrasjel Lanate]

But the harvesting also could be limited to some new rare resources.

[Mox]

A havester should be claimable by outfits.
As long as you defend it your outfit is gathering resources for building a base/tower/Hideout for your outfit.

i think it would be nice if the resources have nothing to do with gaining access to weapons and vecs.

A mechanic to push an outfit-specific warfare

[Blackwolf]

I'd like the idea better if it wasn't restricted to just outfit made bases.

If the resource harvesters functioned from every base, that gives a very distinct possible target for spec-ops teams to go after for resource denial purposes. It generates a vulnerability and would add a great deal to continental combat.

The gatherers should spawn from bases only though, not towers. And have to travel to locations where the resources are.

TBH, it's a nice idea but it might be impractical. NPC ANTs would have been a far better solution. Every base in PS1 had roads leading to nearby Warpgates and it wouldn't be hard to program an ANT to follow the road to and from a warpgate to it's target base and unload it's NTUs.

[AnamNantom]

I'm doing targeted feedback threads on all items from Smed's Blog (http://john-smedley.livejournal.com/2412.html). This one is for player harvesting.


Thoughts!

In Eve Online, as Scitor Nantom, I had four planets that I was running planetary industries on. There were planetary facilities that were harvesting minerals, and manufacturing different products by mixing some of what was harvested.

I could imagine players could deploy machines that their outfit mates would help defend. Sound cool? Anyone?

[Akrasjel Lanate]

In Eve Online, as Scitor Nantom, I had four planets that I was running planetary industries on. There were planetary facilities that were harvesting minerals, and manufacturing different products by mixing some of what was harvested.

I could imagine players could deploy machines that their outfit mates would help defend. Sound cool? Anyone?

Soo it would look like PI(or moon goo) passive you set a job and wait or active like mining where you have to participate

[Satyxis]

Cautiously optimistic about it. As long as the harvesting had a measurable influence on the game, I could see having some fun doing it.

[Trolltaxi]

Resources are meant to be the key feautre of the "tactical layer" of the game. It was said a million times, that empires will plan their attacks along their own needs, or to deny other empires' access to their most important resource.

I don't know how well it will work in the final game. Maybe this isn't playing out well in techtest and beta and now they try to spice it up with the harvester idea?

[SpottyGekko]

I'm always in favour of features that make the gameplay deeper, but not if it's depth for the sake of it.

I'd say we need to play the game in release version for a while before this topic can really be tackled meaningfully. Right now we don't have a good idea of resource supply and consumption rates, so it's hard to tell how harvesters would affect the balance.

But I could see resource harvesting as a potential lifeline to a faction that's lost a large slice of territory though. Sending out ninja squads to setup harvesters deep inside enemy territory could provide an interesting meta-game. That faction's shortage of resources would be a strong motivator to do something that would normally be seen as "boring".

If the harvester diverted resources from the hex owner to the harvester owner, it would become an economic weapon. It would mean that the larger a faction's territory became, the more that faction would have to patrol their territory to winkle out ninja harvesters. This would add an additional cost to holding large swathes of territory.

[Ivam Akorahil]

i personaly like it because it makes the game more complex and rich. instead of having a forced engagement at the front this way players can also do mining operations in eve style, these require protection, everything takes coordination etc. it makes the continent seem more realistic, you have people going on about their business behind the frontline, gathering resources, being guarded, getting ambushed, planning ambushes on enemy resources etc etc

it makes it feel as if there is something to do on the whole continent not just on the front line or in enemy territory

because at the moment i wonder

once you captured the territory - what are you gonna do with it besides passively generating resources? there seems to be little else to gain in the current system

[XxAxMayxX]

sounhds cool maybe some like rare resources you can find in the middle of no where you can harvest with a team. this sounds really cool, the resources could do very specific things like give you ammo or vehicle cool down boosts.

Imagine setting up some sort of mobile mining rig over a small vein of minerals and defending it with friends... sounds great.

[stordito]

harverster, moving in!

could be a replacement for ANT... not providing "power" to the base but to the people fighting for it... i like it!
those harversters would need escorts and a safe trip back,adding another layer of coordination

[p0intman]

If I want to spend my time harvesting my own resources I play something like an RTS game. Again, this doesn't belong in a PVP game.

[Notsononymous]

My ideal for this would be combination of the Civilization stage from EA's Spore, and perhaps the Fatboy from THQ's Supreme Commander. I will explain what I mean in more detail below.

Spore's Civilization stage had a system where you would capture a spice geyser and then transport vehicles would automatically harvest "spice" (the hard resource which was turned into Sporebucks). We would have a similar system here. Any main base (biodome etc.) you capture would automatically generate small transport vehicles which travel only between that base and the resource nodes around it. Obviously these can be destroyed.

Now the other thing I thought of is have then a supply line between all the main bases you capture and your faction's sanctuary. The transport vehicle looks like this and is mega-super hard to take down. But obviously if it is taken down then your faction loses a whole bunch of resources. This it would create nice mobile objective for the factions to contest (obviously you would have to be notified when it was being attacked).

[Tzitzimitl]

I think the one way this could be implemented is the following. First off the resource should be a rare one that goes to constructing/obtaining a unique vehicle or item(s)

This idea could be added to cause impromptu battles to occur. What i mean is this resource randomly spawns across a continent and only has a limited supply before it disappears. Factions would then have to fight for their right to harvest said resource. The resource could then either be capture-able like a base or go more along their lines of their vision in which i vehicle would have to be used to harvest it.

The only potential flaw is that can potentially detract from the main focus of the game but I guess this is what we are all trying to figure out. How to add a mechanic that adds the game's focus instead of detracting from it?

[Rat]

I like it, sounds like EVE 0.0, I see it only being done on continents where outfits own the bases, any weapons or equipment used for defending your base or attacking other player owned bases would come from whatever resources you aquire through mining. maybe you could also attack enemy mining operations and steal their resources.

And whos to say that warfare has to be limited to enemy factions? open the combat up to interfaction warfare....bring politics and aliences into the game

open the sandbox

[Rat]

We didn't need outfits owning bases for ant runs, so no.

Loyalty to the Empire is an oath in Planetside. I will never combat a fellow Vanu.

this could be sooo much more than simply droping a ant out of a loadstar and calling it logistics...I for one would like to see how deep the rabbit hole goes.

[Duskguy]

However the questions that occur to me is why would you do it?

Would the resources you harvest accrue to you? To your outfit? To your squad? To your empire?


Honestly, while killing people in PS2 will always be fun, it would be interesting if there were other elements besides killing people. I am definitely looking forward to them letting us build our own bases/towers/outposts in the future and it would be awesome if this was part of it. Like you have to use the minerals these things gather to upgrade your base, so they become another strategic asset to defend/attack.:cool:

someone also mentioned these could be used only for rare materials.
played a f2p game where colonies were added in and guilds could take them over and then upgrade them. to upgrade however, required lots of resources as well as some rare ones only able to be gained by other colonies, which promoted alliances and business deals.

if they add in outfits being able to get their own supplies of resources and create bases, these harvesters could be used as a means to get rare resources needed for upgrades for the outfit base.

example could be that the outfit uses x amount of auraxium and some other resource to place and set up a base which would be basically just a barracks. after that they could create a harvester shed which would supply one harvester at a time at the cost of x amount of x resources. to build other facilities such as a ground vehicle garage/spawn point you would need x resources as well as x amount of x(rare) resource, while an air hanger would require a different rare resource. turrets would require yet another, and everything else would work on differing amounts of normal and rare resources.
and by strategic placement, outfits could create small towns/forts where one outfit contributes more AA guns while another contributes ground turrets and another builds small barricades around the bases' perimiter.

TL;DR when/if we get outfit bases, rare resources gathered by harvester type units could provide a basis for upgrading said outfit bases

[Phisionary]

I think some resource gathering/harvesting mechanic is a superb idea. I've read and supported suggestions in the idea vault similar to this. There could be some interesting transport type missions if there was a cargo / skycrane type of aircraft.

I like the idea of different and more varied missions of various types. Ones where you have to defend targets, protect convoys, escort couriers, and so on. Perhaps a mission, where a random area has some valuable resources fall/appear/be discovered, and a formerly unimportant part of the map is the center of a raging three way resource battle.

It's an interesting idea of using new limited resources to balance and control new gameplay aspects. If a faction-objective-optional outfit resource-gathering operation was required to build a special outfit structure or vehicle, for instance...

[Neurotoxin]

I want a vehicle, or type of weapon for multiple vehicles, that allows for resources to be reclaimed from destroyed vehicles... or to steal resources in the form of armor or other parts from enemy vehicles with a close-range drill or beam or something.

Maybe players should be able to manage and maintain the resource acquisition systems for any hex they own. Resources could always be in flux, so people have to check bases every day or every few hours to make sure they are collecting the richest resource in the region.

[Gonzo]

It could be cool to spawn some sort of harvester vehicle at your foothold, then drive it to a base in a hex that provides resources to boost that hexes output.

Ex: A certain hex is controlled by a capture point at a Mine, and the hex produces catalysts. When you bring the harvester vehicle to the hex and activate it, the catalyst output of that hex gets + 20%, until the harvester is moved or destroyed. Deploy another harvester for another +10%. Capped at 2 active harvesters per hex.

Empires looking to increase their resource income would work on deploying harvesters in applicable areas (not all hexes can be harvested from), and defending them to keep up the resource boost. Hunting down enemy harvesters on deep-strike missions would be a valuable strategy.

Harvesters should be very large (3x the size of a Sunderer), heavily armored, and have a fair amount of defensive weaponry. Spawning should be limited to the foothold only, and then they will be slowly driven to the desired location.

[super pretendo]

This is an awesome idea. It makes sabotage warfare possible, and creates dynamic places for players to come and attack and defend.

One of the best ideas I have seen yet.

[RoninOni]

Could be nice... This would be an appropriate use of AI (who dafuq want's to manually mine??).

It would allow for raiding enemy resource lines.

If the resources had to be convoyed from the facility back to processing/storage facitilies then there'd be more random events to fight over.

COULD be nice...

Certainly vote for this over NPC armies

[Envenom]

Sounds incredibly dull and boring. Who plays FPS's to harvest??? LOL

[Boone]

I think it would be cool to have resources "lakes" let's say. You can spawn a gathering vehicle just like you would anything else. If let unattended it can be attacked so you would have to guard it while it gathered.

I could see Outfits and what not fighting over resource lakes. Like someone else said, make a rare resource within these lakes and I'm sure people wouldn't have an issue fighting over them.

I guess it could be easy to just harvest at like 4am or something with little risk, then again they could just cap it somehow or create random times when they are available to harvest...almost like a global message deal.

[RoninOni]

Sounds incredibly dull and boring. Who plays FPS's to harvest??? LOL

YOU wouldn't harvest.... NPC's would.

They'd be vulnerable to ENEMY PLAYER ATTACKS however which is how they'd add a new layer to the resource control fight.

[Envenom]

YOU wouldn't harvest.... NPC's would.

They'd be vulnerable to ENEMY PLAYER ATTACKS however which is how they'd add a new layer to the resource control fight.

This I can deal with. Thanks for clarifying. That would be cool.

[Duskguy]

This I can deal with. Thanks for clarifying. That would be cool.

i would say make them commandable at spawn, such as go to place x. and then it goes while players defend it. which would work with my idea (check previous post above) for outfit bases, or faction bases. or hell, just to increase normal extraction rates in controlled and steal a percentage of extraction when in enemy territory.

if it is player controlled, i would say keep it out of the game.

[Toppopia]

This is an awesome idea, adds more depth to the resource metagame and allows behind enemy lines spec ops which lots of people like doing. And allows outfits to do recon in enemy space to find a harvester then rally his outfit to destroy it.

[Froglicker]

I like the idea. Supply lines that can be interrupted and exploited would add great tactical moments to the gameplay. I also always hated the "take over a base, magically generate/transport resources" concept that was currently in.

[super pretendo]

I like the idea. Supply lines that can be interrupted and exploited would add great tactical moments to the gameplay. I also always hated the "take over a base, magically generate/transport resources" concept that was currently in.

Hopefully there is NPC transportation of them too.

[RoninOni]

i would say make them commandable at spawn, such as go to place x. and then it goes while players defend it. which would work with my idea (check previous post above) for outfit bases, or faction bases. or hell, just to increase normal extraction rates in controlled and steal a percentage of extraction when in enemy territory.

if it is player controlled, i would say keep it out of the game.

That could be cool... as well as boosting a territories resource gain rate.

ie; they have a real low passive generation, and you need the Harvesters in order to achieve their real generation rates. Territories well behind lines would usually run unguarded, where border territories would need much more active defense against harassment.

Bases could run on automatic, but a player could take command from a control tower to increase efficiency or to just help keep them alive through better control.

[NewSith]

There is an idea in the idea vault getting a detailed view on this and I rated that thread 10/10. Nuff said. (Well, obviously, if harvesters are NPC)

[Harasus]

Interesting idea. NPC or human-controlled? If they are NPC, I can see people going far into enemy territory only to spawnkill defenceless NPCs. And that would suck, because there is no action in that. If they are controlled by humans (Essentially, hop into a worker-MAX and go mining) you would probably get bored very quickly. Once again, no action.

*Shrug* Maybe.

[Toppopia]

Interesting idea. NPC or human-controlled? If they are NPC, I can see people going far into enemy territory only to spawnkill defenceless NPCs. And that would suck, because there is no action in that. If they are controlled by humans (Essentially, hop into a worker-MAX and go mining) you would probably get bored very quickly. Once again, no action.

*Shrug* Maybe.

The point is that you are supposed to guard the harvesters, if they get destroyed and no one is guarding them. Its your fault if you arn't getting any more resources now.

But if they arn't AI controlled, then it would be very boring for some.

[Harasus]

The point is that you are supposed to guard the harvesters, if they get destroyed and no one is guarding them. Its your fault if you arn't getting any more resources now.

But if they arn't AI controlled, then it would be very boring for some.

People will go to the frontline to fight, some will try to get behind enemy lines and cap areas. With this, some will go behind enemy lines, as far away from the fighting as possible, and start killing NPCs to get more score and hurt the enemy. They might not even bother capping because it is easier to just hit-n-run the same base over and over again. You can not expect people to guard every single base, especially when they are not even on the frontline. That would require guards 24/7 everywhere, and nobody would like it.

Heck, this could become the new way of grinding!

[Duskguy]

People will go to the frontline to fight, some will try to get behind enemy lines and cap areas. With this, some will go behind enemy lines, as far away from the fighting as possible, and start killing NPCs to get more score and hurt the enemy. They might not even bother capping because it is easier to just hit-n-run the same base over and over again. You can not expect people to guard every single base, especially when they are not even on the frontline. That would require guards 24/7 everywhere, and nobody would like it.

Heck, this could become the new way of grinding!

way i pictured it would be a tractor-like unit that moves to a specified location to help harvest/ steal some resources. they wouldnt power the economy, that would still be the capture points' role. these would be spawnable by say outfit leaders or something and wouldnt spawn ANY npc units, it would simply do its job while players attack or defend it.

not sure where you get the idea of npc camping for experience.

[Blackwolf]

People will go to the frontline to fight, some will try to get behind enemy lines and cap areas. With this, some will go behind enemy lines, as far away from the fighting as possible, and start killing NPCs to get more score and hurt the enemy. They might not even bother capping because it is easier to just hit-n-run the same base over and over again. You can not expect people to guard every single base, especially when they are not even on the frontline. That would require guards 24/7 everywhere, and nobody would like it.

Heck, this could become the new way of grinding!

Good points. Would also be tough in situations where your empire only has one base and your surrounded by the enemy. This would end your fight pretty quickly, which could be beneficial to the game rather then a hindrance actually.

However, making a foot hold becomes a problem if you are entirely reliant on your harvesters for resources. This would force full scale raids and well thought out plans to not only take a base as a beach head, but surrounding territory so that you can maintain a decent level of security over the harvesters while they work. Huh.

And actually, if your empire has a large area under it's control, chances are some teams running spec ops won't hinder production much. They might shut down a base or too at a time which would certainly slow the empire down. But if that empire had 4 other bases gathering resources at full speed?

There are problems with the idea, but I think it could work out well. And there is no doubt that it would add a layer of depth to the game and create more logistics for the players to handle.

[Harasus]

way i pictured it would be a tractor-like unit that moves to a specified location to help harvest/ steal some resources. they wouldnt power the economy, that would still be the capture points' role. these would be spawnable by say outfit leaders or something and wouldnt spawn ANY npc units, it would simply do its job while players attack or defend it.

not sure where you get the idea of npc camping for experience.

And the point of them would be...? If they do not power the economy, they are useless. If they are useless, why would anyone attack/defend them?

Good points. Would also be tough in situations where your empire only has one base and your surrounded by the enemy. This would end your fight pretty quickly, which could be beneficial to the game rather then a hindrance actually.

However, making a foot hold becomes a problem if you are entirely reliant on your harvesters for resources. This would force full scale raids and well thought out plans to not only take a base as a beach head, but surrounding territory so that you can maintain a decent level of security over the harvesters while they work. Huh.

And actually, if your empire has a large area under it's control, chances are some teams running spec ops won't hinder production much. They might shut down a base or too at a time which would certainly slow the empire down. But if that empire had 4 other bases gathering resources at full speed?

There are problems with the idea, but I think it could work out well. And there is no doubt that it would add a layer of depth to the game and create more logistics for the players to handle.

Good points, I guess. I am just afraid that a well organised group could split themselves up in small squads and stop almost all production in the bases of a faction.
Overall, a big maybe on this. The game can work fine without this, just imagine that all resource gathering and transportation is done underground, and the only way to gain control of that is to take the base with the control panels.

[Electrofreak]

"Doo de doo de doo. Time to grab my trusty Gauss Rifle and kill some Vanu scum."
*click*
"YOU REQUIRE MORE VESPENE GAS."
"Awww damnit, again? Fine. I'll just spawn a Reaver, that doesn't need vespene."
*click*
"YOU MUST CONSTRUCT ADDITIONAL PYLONS."
"Son of a Bi-!!"

[CardiffGreens]

I like the idea of this - mostly because a) I get something to do rather than find new and hilarious ways of dying in game and b) the inevitable combine harvester races that we'll be organising once this goes live.

[RoninOni]

In the thread on AI Smedley posted about scripted AI...

I could definitely see that being leveraged with this Harvesting (and supply convoy?) idea, as no one want's to actually work do these tasks in game they're perfect for scripting.

So Smedley, if you read this, apply your 3rd AI idea here :cool:

[Duskguy]

@ Harasus
the point of them wouldnt be to fuel the economy, but to augment it, or hinder the enemy's.

im talking like boost speed of resource extraction from an allied facility and a percentage taken from an enemy facility.

because i find it very unlikely that any faction will have a complete abundance of all resources, and so sending one of these to help get a specific resource would have exceptional value.

hence not being pointless.

if they solely powered the economy, as you said, some lone soldier could go behind enemy lines and literally just end the game. and as you said, instead of capturing the resource facilities, people would just camp the extractor

however, i may have a balance between your idea and mine.
perhaps if the facility automatically generated say 50% of resources and the extractor extracted the other 50%. each facility would auto spawn ONE harvester when first taken over.
this would allow for soldiers to go behind enemy lines and destroy the harvesters rather than trying to take a facility which will show up on the map and take lots of time to take over.
after a harvester is destroyed, a player has to go to that facility and manually respawn it.
this would still cripple the enemy economy without completly ruining it, and without making it too easy to cripple an enemy. as it is you would have to take the facility, which takes longer the farther in to enemy territory you get, but with the harvesters, you would provide a medium to raid without getting stuck at one spot for too long. for balancing purposes, the farther into enemy lands you get, the more health the harvesters have

[SztEltviz]

v-v-w "Wormsign!" :D
I want to drive a harvester! (They took my ANT :( but that's maybe will be a replacement)

[AnamNantom]

Soo it would look like PI(or moon goo) passive you set a job and wait or active like mining where you have to participate

That's how I imagined it when I just read Smedley's blog. He's clarified his ideas further since then, in this forum. One thing he mentioned, programmable AI that could be traded between people for profit. This AI would be in, what I am assuming is bots that fight.

I like it, sounds like EVE 0.0, I see it only being done on continents where outfits own the bases, any weapons or equipment used for defending your base or attacking other player owned bases would come from whatever resources you aquire through mining. maybe you could also attack enemy mining operations and steal their resources.

And whos to say that warfare has to be limited to enemy factions? open the combat up to interfaction warfare....bring politics and aliences into the game

open the sandbox

YES.

[RoninOni]

Heck, this could become the new way of grinding!

It shouldn't be overtly rewarding... and your whole team would be getting reports from the NPC's about being under attack. They're behind enemy lines, and the enemy knows what they're up to.

And yes, resource harassment WOULD become part of the game. Patrols would be assigned in the mission menu to watch for sneak attacks, and those patrols would be rewarded XP & resource for completing a mission.

I'd much rather run a patrol for XP than drive a harvest truck >.<

Inner faction warfare???

NC maybe...

TR are too disciplined and VS to brainwashed for that :D

[SergeantNubins]

I havent read all the other comments here (because there are loads and its late) but I really like the idea of c&c style resource harvesters (westwood did it before bliz with dune and then c&c, so really credit should be to them for the idea :) ). Maybe not even automated, perhaps players could drive them and earn xp or resources by overseeing the harvesting op for their faction. You could even have dynamicy generated resource fields so people have to hunt for them as well.

I think it would add a lot to the game, tactically and just as another playstyle for people to get involved with.

[Phantasmio]

I really like the idea of this! Disrupting enemy supply lines is a vital tactic in real war, so adding this into the game would add an extra element of strategy and gameplay for PS2! Plus, we now lack vehicles like the ANT, which was always fun to drive out to the gates to gather some resources for one of our bases, so this could fill in that void quite nicely! I know I would be down to escort some supply lines!

[Anabuki]

I like this idea too, but I wonder how it'll fit in terms of the demand for the resources that will be harvested. Will it be bulk Auraxium? Or will it be some less abundant resource that is needed to make certain things (special weapons, vehicles, implants)? Who will control the majority of this new resource? How is that decided? Can you trade these resources for services? etc etc etc. Does provide a new avenue for gameplay to develop, although I can see some people hesitant about the development of the 'RPG' elements in an MMOFPS.

[exLupo]

http://www.tombsofkobol.com/images/classic/harvester01web.jpg

While I am a fan of harvesting in EVE (I probably gas more than run wh plexes for cash), I don't believe that PS really needs the additional depth. It's a fighting game. We're here not for the sandbox. We're here to put our boots on the throats of our enemies. I don't think that an additional resource mechanic, for its own sake, is necessary.

However, if harvesting setups (mobile npc? towers dropped from orbit on resource nodes? player ops?) were just there to give players a reason to leave static structures then that's something else entirely. Mobile fighting points? Random spawn areas to change combat focus? Hell, non-random, system directed spawns to make the maps more dynamic. Now -that- I could get behind. Harvesting is the MacGuffin, the real point is getting players fighting over something new and changing up the strategic landscape.

[Malorn]

Player harvesting was boring as fuck in EVE, it'll be boring as fuck in PS2. It was also boring in WoW. Herb farming or mining node farming - just how I wanted to spend my evening!

I know Smed's a big EVE fan, but there's a lot of extremely boring shit in EVE. Mining is at the top of the list to the point where it's only tolerable if you have a bot for it and most of the EVE economy is run by mining bots. Moon mining shifted things over to be a bit more interesting, so did the planetary stuff. That level of complexity is interesting, but the learning curve (http://www.restokin.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Sensory_Overload.jpg) for that sort of stuff leaves a lot of bodies behind.

I like RTS elements, but any sort of resource harvesting needs to be automated. Players might have to set up the system, but there should be minimal time investment to maintain it and it should be more of an objective that can be optimized as opposed to something people actually spend time doing.

[exLupo]

Player harvesting was boring as fuck in EVE, it'll be boring as fuck in PS2. It was also boring in WoW. Herb farming or mining node farming - just how I wanted to spend my evening!

Totally subjective. I and many others actually enjoy resource harvesting in EVE and many other games. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it shouldn't be considered.

It's ok to not like things...
It's okay to not like things - YouTube

[Malorn]

Oh right, I forgot that China has an entire industry based around farming boring shit normal people don't want to do. OK carry on. Just make the products of the harvesting for sale for Smedbux and save me the time.

[EVILPIG]

I proposed to Higby that the ANT be brought back for Resource delivery. It's a raw concept, haven't thought out much details on it, but it seems a good use for it.

[exLupo]

Pig: What do you mean exactly? Like ANTs being used to run resources back from bases? Targets for logistical damage?

[MaxDamage]

It's strange to see people writing about this, 'who would drive one of these?' that obviously never played Planetside 1.

ANTs *were* harvesters!

Planetside wasn't just an MMOFPS, it was arguably the realisation of MMOFPSRTS - with each troop controlled by a real human player, preferably under the guidance of commanders; but with no compulsion to sacrifice personal initiative.

Surely there will be this sort of thing in PS2, I hadn't heard they'd removed them from PS1 and if they did I think that is really disappointing. Those last minute GAL+ANT moments while defending a base were often epic, requiring strategy for a purpose, clearing the CY, emptying the position of mines. A reason not to just camp in the base farming XP from invaders.

[exLupo]

ANTs were harvesters and the person doing the run was sacrificing precious murder time for the GLORY OF THE SOVEREIGNTY. Er.. the good of the team. However, I'm afraid what Smed-o-rama is thinking is more passive and focused around wallet padding.

[Sunrock]

Way not add a crafting system like SWG had while we are at it?

[exLupo]

What a great idea! Crafting and housing and they can even add PvP so we can fight between all the awesome PvE...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope#As_a_fallacy

[Sighpolice]

I do quite like this idea, I actually quite enjoying doing an ANT run every now and again in PS 1. With the resources being a big part of PS2, there is room (as many others have already said) for mobile resource points and stuff so yeah, it sounds quite good.

[RoninOni]

ANTs were harvesters and the person doing the run was sacrificing precious murder time for the GLORY OF THE SOVEREIGNTY. Er.. the good of the team. However, I'm afraid what Smed-o-rama is thinking is more passive and focused around wallet padding.

I'm thinking that the harvesting and npc idea fit together nicely.

Nobody has to manually harvest (could be an option? I guess? Shouldn't be a particularly ideal means of farming though really. Added benefit sure, but ech...)

I just think that having resource lines would offer new military targets and broaden tactical options.

[exLupo]

It would but what would be the impact of breaking those lines or deciding to not? Good time to brainstorm. :)

[Emperor Newt]

I have always liked harvesting when done right in games. In Ultima Online I played a miner/trader and spent most of my time in caves harvesting ores. And yes, that was fun.
Harvesting in WoW on the other hand, is just plain boring.

If they make it fun and interesting, I'm in for it.

[Sunrock]

I do quite like this idea, I actually quite enjoying doing an ANT run every now and again in PS 1. With the resources being a big part of PS2, there is room (as many others have already said) for mobile resource points and stuff so yeah, it sounds quite good.

But how will that impact the strategic importance to hold hexes for resources? Or can you only harvest resources in hexes your faction control?

TBH I only see this as a way to dumb down the strategic value of owning the right hexes. If you can harvest in other factions territory that is.

[exLupo]

BTBH I only see this as a way to dumb down the strategic value of owning the right hexes. If you can harvest in other factions territory that is.

First: Fight for bases, get resources.
Next: Make the choice whether or not to send your squads off to secure harvest locations or deny them to enemies.

This makes global strategy more complex, not less.

[Sunrock]

First: Fight for bases, get resources.
Next: Make the choice whether or not to send your squads off to secure harvest locations or deny them to enemies.

This makes global strategy more complex, not less.

Yes it makes the strategy more complex. But my worry was in regards of owning hexes. This makes it harder to starve the enemy of resources. And that does diminish the value of controlling the aria.

I'm just worried that this will make it too easy to obtain resources this way even if your faction is sucking and not forcing team work with all the outfits within the faction.

[JHendy]

But how will that impact the strategic importance to hold hexes for resources? Or can you only harvest resources in hexes your faction control?

TBH I only see this as a way to dumb down the strategic value of owning the right hexes. If you can harvest in other factions territory that is.

Perhaps by making a separate set of resources that MUST be harvested by players and cannot be reaped simply by owning the hex that the nodes are on.

This way you're not making the game's entire economy system the players' responsibility.

These specialised rare resources could be used to spawn vehicles with increased potency (A prowler with four cannons?) in small numbers.

I really like the idea of a resource that is accrued to your outfit rather than you, which has to be manually harvested by members of your outfit using a specific vehicle, and can then be spent on the queuing of a capital ship or a mighty land unit (think Goliath from UT3).

I think that the idea has legs, but I'd agree with the people who have pointed out the potential monotony of having to ANT-style harvest every resource in game, going forward.

[sagolsun]

First: Fight for bases, get resources.
Next: Make the choice whether or not to send your squads off to secure harvest locations or deny them to enemies.

This makes global strategy more complex, not less.

Indeed, resource harvesting and AI-controlled harvesters and transporters are a very good idea.

Why?

1) Strategical depth
Enemy resource gathering operations can be disrupted not only by directly claiming terrain but also harrassing resource gatherers. Previously assaulting bases was all or nothing - you either muster up enough force to take a sector or you don't. With harvesters it's possible to raid enemy hexes and disrupt operations without having to zerg the enemy positions

2) Look&feel
Automated resource harvesters would add to the life and feel of the game, which is otherwise static. Real war has lots of logistics going on behind the frontlines, PS2 is so far one big frontline.

3) Persistence
The problem with PS2 is that the world has little persistence. About the only achievable/unlockable/buildable thing that's permanent is your stats. Vehicles come and go, bases change hands. PS2 lacks feedback for conquering terrain - being able to build bases, turrets, resource harvesters or NPC armies significantly increases emotional investment in terrain - it's not just a hex, it's our hex. In addition having something to lose means there's more incentive to defend, not just attack.

So yes, it's a very good idea. Anything that adds strategic depth is a good idea.

[SeanNewBoy]

Yes with certs and accolades.

[Pullo]

Great idea to make the game deeper. It is like Supply in GW2 WvW - without supply you cannot effectively take/defend keeps. It means players have to think a lot more about tactics.

[Oryon22]

I really like the idea of harvestable resources. Nice substitute to the ANT's absence.

[Crator]

By proposing Harvestable resources he also wants to say that conquered space wont generate engouth resources to support a player needs for vehicles and suff. And that it require more resources, itherwise such option wouldnt have a point.

Exactly. I kinda like this idea. Will make resource control more tactical and perhaps give you a reason to actually defend a hex that isn't part of the capture system.

[Boone]

I think they need to add "harvesting lakes" that pop at random. Think global message alert in other MMOs, so you would see something like "X Resource lake now able to harvest"...to make it simple.

You could then spawn a gathering vehicle, which obviously would work like others, able to be destroyed and so on therefore you would have to defend it (make you have to cert in it or just really expensive). Cap the resource lake so people just can't farm for 9 hours, and keep the times random.

I could see good times having to fight over rare resources, and it would no doubt (if made worth it) we would see some really nice 3v3 warfare.

[Inq]

Seems like a decent idea, If it played out something like Harvesters in C&C renegade:

An NPC driven vehicle that drives from point A to point B and back again (could be resources on the ground or simply to the next friendly Hex linked up with your faction warp gate)

Then if you tie it in with resources gained insted of having so many resources per min a hex is held it would be so many resources per successful harvester run.

This would allow you to disrupt enemy supplies by destroying enemy harvesters reducing their ability to produce vehicles and possibly MAX's.

[maddoggg]

I like the idea of harvesting resourses.
It would deffinetly help in adding more dept to the meta game.

[PoisonTaco]

NC and TR get SCV's. VS get Probes?

All that's left is that we need to make it so the Galaxy has a heal beam. This way with a Galaxy, infantry and MAX units we'll have Marines, Marauders and Medivacs. :D

[Garem]

I would LOVE to see this as total filler on standard continents, done by NPC harvesters and not players.

I would also LOVE to see this in for a sandbox continent/area, NPC or Player-driven.

Aside from that, this is tedious and detracts from the fighting. Players are content, after all. Don't start removing content to add a new, super-dull or mini-game content called Mining Hero.

[PoisonTaco]

I would LOVE to see this as total filler on standard continents, done by NPC harvesters and not players.

I would also LOVE to see this in for a sandbox continent/area, NPC or Player-driven.

Aside from that, this is tedious and detracts from the fighting. Players are content, after all. Don't start removing content to add a new, super-dull or mini-game content called Mining Hero.

How is this not epic?
(NSFW Warning, strong language)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOvGCrilWik

[Duskguy]

Seems like a decent idea, If it played out something like Harvesters in C&C renegade:

An NPC driven vehicle that drives from point A to point B and back again (could be resources on the ground or simply to the next friendly Hex linked up with your faction warp gate)

Then if you tie it in with resources gained insted of having so many resources per min a hex is held it would be so many resources per successful harvester run.

This would allow you to disrupt enemy supplies by destroying enemy harvesters reducing their ability to produce vehicles and possibly MAX's.

i suggested harvesters colelcting rare resources or augmenting/ stealing resource extration rates because the idea you are suggesting makes me feel like no one would bother fighhting over the bases and instead be based mainly around these extractors.
people are complaining about possible alien invasions ruining the game, but i think making harvesters the only way to get resources would ruin the game much faster. as it would be more beneficial to simply focus on disrupting enemy harvesters rather that advancing and taking facilities.

[Duckforceone]

i like that idea... makes for more diverse battles as well...

going out, driving a vehicle to a resource point... deploy and wait... have a few guildies to defend it...

also, make sure the stuff doesn't always spawn in the same places...

[Inq]

i suggested harvesters colelcting rare resources or augmenting/ stealing resource extration rates because the idea you are suggesting makes me feel like no one would bother fighhting over the bases and instead be based mainly around these extractors.
people are complaining about possible alien invasions ruining the game, but i think making harvesters the only way to get resources would ruin the game much faster. as it would be more beneficial to simply focus on disrupting enemy harvesters rather that advancing and taking facilities.

Well it would depend on how it is implemented, You could have a mix of factory style bases that do not require/ spawn harvesters and refinery style bases that spawn harvesters and collect rare resourses located on the map.

You are also forgetting if you defend your harvesters with 100% of your manpower then the enemy would have an easy time capturing the refinery.

[Justaman]

IMO, there should be effects like, bringing bonus resources to a base will reduce timers on things that require that resource.

[Ivam Akorahil]

if implemented it should also be non repetative, or we have the eve miner disaster happen in PS2!

immo star trek online has a good resource minigame !

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/9qntmQceKzs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Kyros]

If there are harvestable resources i'd rather have it in the form of buildable harvesters or some such. What i do 'not' want to see is an individual person sitting there with mining equipment hacking away at rocks or what have you. Why? Well the more people you designate for these extra tasks, the less men you'll have on the battlefield. And in a game like planetside, every able bodied person counts as battles are often won by numbers.

[IMMentat]

mining runs in eve would be an awesome thing to mimic.

[RoninOni]

It would but what would be the impact of breaking those lines or deciding to not? Good time to brainstorm. :)

Could be a new resource type that's particularly valuable...

or a bases resource drip to the faction could be largely dependent upon this harvesting...

In either case, attacking the harvesting units would affect the factions resource gain.... not as significantly as capping the base for sure, but far FAR more executable behind enemy lines.

Of course any attack would set off alerts, and this mission system that is yet to be implemented could be leveraged to lay down patrol routes people could sign up for and be rewarded for completing. (people would then have new tasks to perform, but in a still military function rather than mining function)

It would just add a new dynamic to the game. New targets and require broader and more active defenses... something to help whittle away the 'zerg' focus.

I think augmenting a territories production/stealing resources from enemy territory (far riskier, definite need of escort) is the best way to go.

Territories would have a smaller auto drip, and would need it's harvester units doing w/e they do for that resource to achieve it's maximum generation rate.

Back territories would pretty much run 100% most of the time save for enemy harassment runs, which would become a new attack & defend game focus.

Front line territories would suffer a LOT more from resource production due to both their harvesters being far easier to destroy (not needing to go behind enemy lines and not having far to pull back) as well as their resources getting stolen by enemy harvester teams (being escorted by players if they want any chance of success).

Maybe engineers on foot could even 'car jack'/hack enemy harvesters too (engineers because infiltrators might have too easy a time with cloak >.< ).

And a player COULD manually drive a harvester (primarily for stealing runs to get a smarter driver than an AI) and it could even have an MG on it that a player could hop into.

[Phisionary]

I think this could be an interesting mechanic for particular facilities. Firstly, with regards to resource denial, I think this just means that resource denial will mean more complexity than just camping bases you already own. You'd have to go out and actively disrupt the enemy to deny resources.

I'd like the system to be mostly automatic. Minimize tedium and griefing both at the same time. Once a mining facility is captured (perhaps an easy to hold facility by itself), harvester/mining vehicles are deployed, and travel to some predetermined mining locations. Some limited control could be offered, to select among possible destinations. I would think to some degree a base need be specially designed with this in mind, for some implementations to work well.

A concerted effort would be needed to assault a harvester. An automatic turret gun could hold off a couple lone soldiers. Auto self-repair would keep a small attack from causing undue damage. Perhaps the internal control could be hacked to delay the vehicle, but you'd need some heavy weapons to destroy it outright. Again, prevents a lone griefer from being a pest, but a small squad of 4 or 5, or a tank, or a lib, might be something that needs contending with. The mission system could alert the need for defense, and the harvesting facility itself could have some sort of vehicle tracking/mapping system to aid coordination? I dunno.

In terms of resource value itself, it's hard to say without knowing how the balance plays out as it is now. But the gist is, if owning a facility for X time means 100 resource, losing a harvester might mean 50 resource, or a successful mission would mean 200.

Edit: I like the idea of BIG harvesters. Somewhere near dune-scale, I suppose. Pretty big, anyway. I was thinking, maybe a harvester could be built like a capture point of sorts. First, the harvester itself is this big complex vehicle, with storage tanks, equipment, control rooms, walkways and such. Say, a rolling three-story office building, in terms of size. Lets say each wheel is individually reactor-powered, and you can destroy/shut down the containment field or something. So, shut them down and the harvester slows. The reactors auto-repair, depending on how many are gone, and how many are left. So, one enemy soldier, given free reign, wouldn't be able to stop the thing at all. One could destroy one reactor, run strait to the next, and before it's offline, the first has repaired itself completely. A spec. ops. team, OTOH, could make a surgical strike and hit them all at once. That could be interesting.

[psychobilly]

If there are harvestable resources i'd rather have it in the form of buildable harvesters or some such. What i do 'not' want to see is an individual person sitting there with mining equipment hacking away at rocks or what have you. Why? Well the more people you designate for these extra tasks, the less men you'll have on the battlefield. And in a game like planetside, every able bodied person counts as battles are often won by numbers.

Exactly. An empty continent with player built structures - cool. One type is a mining rig - cool.

Active harvesting, gathering, mining is by far the most boring aspect of most MMORPG's. Don't bring it to PS2.

[Vertigo]

If anyone remembers Command and Conquer: Renegade, they did something like this. THe tiberium refinery would deploy an automated harvester that would travel back and forth between the facility, and a nearby tiberium field. Destroying it cut off the enemy team's income until another could be deployed. Most of the fighting took place initially around the tiberium fields.

I would say that harvesting should return a portion to the outfit controlling the vehicle(s), and the rest spread out among the rest of the empire. Gives incentive for everyone to defend (or attack) them.

[Vector]

I would love that idea of actually seeing Harvesting resources.
I love it when you actually get some physical in game representation of a Gameplay mechanic such as resources, it just really adds to the immersion of gameplay.

[Stanis]

True. .

link this to additional vehicles that require special rare resources .. it's all getting a bit rpg, gathering, crafting....

Reading Smeds complete post.

It sounds like Star War Galaxies: The FPS


Not a bad thing as I loved the crafting and resource aspects of that game and felt the rpg generic kill 20 rancor missions combined with rpg style PvP let it down. (This would be SWG when initiall launched, before the Jump to Lightspeed also added space vehicles and combat).

Forgelight is an MMO engine. I wouldn't be suprised if they are targetting an merged FPS MMO style of RPG focussing on skill based action and combat rather than mouse clicking abilities.

[Azarga]

How about harvesting some rare resource that comes in limited amount? A resource that is used to buy some significant (note: I said significant, not OP) temporary bonuses. Each member of the empire gets the amount of said resource proportional to the amount gathered by his empire. But the amount of this resource in a game world is limited and resets only after a period of RLtime, 12 days for example. This will add some need to work together to deny this resource of your enemy and gather maximum for your empire and, effectively, yourself.

Will the limitation of availability of some resource be good for gameplay in terms.of cooperation?

What do you think?

[Kail]

I don't think having any long-running supply chains will work well - It will either be unimportant enough no one will bother defending or doing it, and if it is, then people get stuck on "guard duty" once the sparkle wears off. In my opinion any implementation would have to be a transient thing (ie, a few hours at a time).

There are two ways you can look at it; either this is something to enhance / strengthen currently gameplay, or add a new element.

Enhance existing elements

Imagine being able to "take" a large chunk of resource a base produces - maybe an hour's worth at once. The empire that controls it could load up a big transport vehicle and "take" that chunk, which after doing so means the base doesn't produce any resources until that time is up. However the empire doesn't have it yet - they need to get the transport to some pickup point. The transport itself could be destroyed or captured.

In this way you could use it to get a temporary resource spike for your empire with no net gain in the end, or even try and temporarily deny resources to an enemy trying to take over a facility.

New element

A good way for this is dynamically spawned nodes that need harvesting - Auraxis's core is a little unstable and randomly explodes resources upwards. First empire to sucessfully harvest and get the transport back get's a nice resource boost.

Incidentally, it would be super cool if these nodes actually spawned as a mini eruption. Imagine running in the middle of nowhere and you're screen starts to shake...

[Eggy]

I like the idea of a multi-person harvest machine. Driver/miner, top/reargunner and 2 side gunner. Its limited to when it can be used, its limited to what / where it can harvest.

It should need some security so this adds the oportunity for low level missions.
"We need a squad to protect this harvester for 20 mins, bring air and armour".
It could also randomly automaticaly create a low level mission for an oposing faction.
"TR harvester detected, spawned at base X, heading east".

This way it enforces the team play aspect that made PS so good. You cant solo harvest at all. The investment from you VS the fact you will not complete the run on your own make it not worth the effort.

It also keeps the PVP aspect. Its a PVP game we dont need solo people or even groups sat chipping away at rocks. With the mission system generating an auto mission its almost a gaurantee someone will turn up.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

This would be pretty cool, actually. Hah, Planetside carebears :P

[Mordecai TR]

Whether you like or dislike the devs ideas for the future, we should all be grateful that they are trying to make this game feel fresh for the players. The biggest reason why a lot of players stopped playing planetside was because it was extremely repetitive. Each base type had the same layout and all the bases were pretty much captured in the exact way. So I will keep an open mind about any ideas they have to help break up the repetitiveness of capturing bases.

[Helwyr]

ANT type gathering for the entire Empire (not individual or outfit) might be ok. But really it would be better if resources were automatically generated from held territory.

Perhaps ANT like vehicles would allow you to steal some needed resources for your empire from another empire's territory, without having to capture that territory.

Oh and I seriously cringe every time EVE is brought up as an example to follow. That game becomes more like space WoW with every update. Not a game to mimic for any MMO, let alone a MMOFPS.

[RoninOni]

ANT type gathering for the entire Empire (not individual or outfit) might be ok. But really it would be better if resources were automatically generated from held territory.

Perhaps ANT like vehicles would allow you to steal some needed resources for your empire from another empire's territory.

Oh and I seriously cringe every time EVE is brought up as an example to follow. That game becomes more like space WoW with every update. Not a game to mimic for any MMO, let alone a MMOFPS.

I think these Harvesters (modified ANT's I'd imagine) would actually be part of certain resource type bases automated function.

These vehicles could be manually driven and supported with light defense turrets... maybe used to steal resources... or just to increase the efficiency/survivability of fringe territory mining.

Raids could be made on enemy harvesters to reduce enemy faction resource generation.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

The only problem I really see with drivable harvesters like this, is the ease with which people would start botting.

[Kipper]

Correct me if I'm wrong (long time ago) but if you didn't get an ANT to a base in PS1, it dropped the shields, right? Are they saying that was taken out because it was boring if you had to constantly replenish the base or risk losing it?

So based on that, I do like the idea of having automated harvesters generated at a base which went around vacuuming up resources; they could be relied upon to keep the base stocked and healthy but would be destroyable (worth no XP themselves) which opens up a vulnerability in the base.

Do have it so that you don't need to drive the harvesters yourself. Also have it so that you can cert on a galaxy or sundy to sacrifice crew space for resource space, and do have it so that if you can't hold onto your harvesters, you can still keep a base topped up from another base (which tops itself up from its own harvesters).

Maybe also have it so that the consequences of losing power to the base aren't so harsh as meaning that all hope is lost - maybe half the spawn rate, or double the timers for being able to pull vehicles or something, so its enough of a reason for people to want to attack (and defend) the resource gatherers, but not so much that if you don't, its game over at that facility.

Also have it so that destroyed harvesters respawn themselves after a timer ticks through, but will attempt to recall themselves and put out a distress signal if they get put under direct attack (and have plenty of hitpoints) so that defenders can get time to stage a rescue & escort them back in.

It opens up tactical opportunties to feint an attack on the harvester to draw defences away from the base, likewise, a counter attack on an enemy harvester might draw attackers away from somewhere to defend their own, etc.

I'd love to see some interaction possible between players and bases, and between bases so that they could confer benefits to each other - meaning that even though you can attack anything, there are viable different strategies (as in, do I attack radar to blind the enemy, or airfields to control the skies, or bio labs to slow down their global spawn, etc etc).

[Crator]

Correct me if I'm wrong (long time ago) but if you didn't get an ANT to a base in PS1, it dropped the shields, right? Are they saying that was taken out because it was boring if you had to constantly replenish the base or risk losing it?

No idea why they removed the ANT TBH. In PS1, if the base ran out of NTUs (fuel) it would simply have no power. You couldn't spawn or get equipment/vehicles or use the wall turrets. Also when a base went neutral it would loose empire ownership. You had to hack a neutral base and wait the 15 minutes for the hack. And also you had to fuel the base with more NTUs using an ANT before the hack was finished or you had to re-hack again.

You only got shields on a base if you had a shield module installed from the Core Complex. If you killed the generator/hacked the base/or there were no NTUs in the base the mods could be removed from the mod holders in the base. The mods were also of no use when the gen wasn't working, even if they were still installed in the base.

[KIAsan]

Think this would be a great idea as long as it is done right. These things need to be player controlled (killable) ANT type harvesters that bring back resources for the entire empire. Great way to get that one resource for say your gals, even though the opposing empires have you locked out of that terrain. Of course, the enemy would be on patrol to stop you from doing just that. Creates a great gameplay mechanic.

NPC controlled harvesters aren't good at all. If your empire is locked out of a resource, and are too lazy to put up a resource collection operation, then you deserve to be locked out of something. You want players making positive actions (with the ability of the other sides to counter them) to affect the game, nothing passive/automated.

Key here is empire benefit though. If it only goes to you/your outfit, then we risk starting an economy which would be a horrible idea.

[Toppopia]

Think this would be a great idea as long as it is done right. These things need to be player controlled (killable) ANT type harvesters that bring back resources for the entire empire. Great way to get that one resource for say your gals, even though the opposing empires have you locked out of that terrain. Of course, the enemy would be on patrol to stop you from doing just that. Creates a great gameplay mechanic.

NPC controlled harvesters aren't good at all. If your empire is locked out of a resource, and are too lazy to put up a resource collection operation, then you deserve to be locked out of something. You want players making positive actions (with the ability of the other sides to counter them) to affect the game, nothing passive/automated.

Key here is empire benefit though. If it only goes to you/your outfit, then we risk starting an economy which would be a horrible idea.

The only problem with human controlled harvesters is that people come here to not do boring things like harvesting which is more role-playing/RTS style game. But whats wrong with NPC harvesters? You still have to guard them or else they will die. It just means 1 person isn't stuck with the boring task of sitting there doing nothing while everyone else gets to fight.


There could be lots of people that would like mining manually, but enough to make it player controlled?

[RoninOni]

NPC harvesters wouldn't mine enemy hexes :huh:

They'd be a PART of a resource nodes resource generation.... So a weakness to be attackes by the enemy.

Enhancing these harvesters with the ability to pilot them and drive them to enemy territory to STEAL resources would be another potential use for them.

But I think the main idea is to make 1 or more resource types have a disruptable resource generation (shouldn't be able to totally shutdown resource gen... but the majority of resource gen should come from the npc automated harvesters)


This would also make those types of resource nodes that are right on the border particularly prone to enemy strikes.

[KIAsan]

The only problem with human controlled harvesters is that people come here to not do boring things like harvesting which is more role-playing/RTS style game. But whats wrong with NPC harvesters? You still have to guard them or else they will die. It just means 1 person isn't stuck with the boring task of sitting there doing nothing while everyone else gets to fight.


There could be lots of people that would like mining manually, but enough to make it player controlled?

You don't have to have an unarmed ANT to do this. Add a gun slot (configurable turret AI or AV or AA), then let the fun begin. This way you drive the thing to the collection point, you set it up, then you guard the thing. Then the whole thing is still an FPS.

If you need more reason to mine, make it so you DEDUCT that resource from what the enemy would normally collect for free, so even if they have said territory, they need to defend agains enemy incursion that would sap their resources. Would add another dimension to territor protection this way.

[Toppopia]

You don't have to have an unarmed ANT to do this. Add a gun slot (configurable turret AI or AV or AA), then let the fun begin. This way you drive the thing to the collection point, you set it up, then you guard the thing. Then the whole thing is still an FPS.

If you need more reason to mine, make it so you DEDUCT that resource from what the enemy would normally collect for free, so even if they have said territory, they need to defend agains enemy incursion that would sap their resources. Would add another dimension to territor protection this way.

Of course the vehicle needs like guns on it that people control, but i was meaning no sitting in the driver seat doing nothing, the turrets should beable to defend against a small number of enemies if all of them are manned, but then you should need extra people defending if you are being attacked by an organised/big enemy force.

[Hamma]

That vehicle is badass, hasn't made it into the game thus far I doubt it would be a harvester.

[KIAsan]

You could always make the "harvester" a towed vehicle. Then you need to drag it out with a Deliverer, deploy it with your special key, then use the del to defend your towed vehicle.

[Kipper]

You could always make the "harvester" a towed vehicle. Then you need to drag it out with a Deliverer, deploy it with your special key, then use the del to defend your towed vehicle.

That's quite a good idea. But in general, if everyone could harvest and get resources, then I kinda see a situation where everyone logs on, groups up, goes off to harvest in friendly territory to get more "money" and nobody attacks anything.

I think players should be directed to the worthy aim of exterminating each other relentlessly and taking their territories.

For me, NPC harvesters that only accessed friendly hexes directly connected to bases would be win - because if you can't assault the base directly, you can make it less useful to the enemy by destroying its resource collection facilities (the vehicles) and by capping hexes nearby to stop its vehicles from accesisng them.

So instead of just having base capture as the only part of the tactical meta game, you've got a reason to attack and defend empty hexes, or these NPC collectors. It should take more people out into the open rather than just concentrating on bases giving a whole different type of gameplay (but that's still concentrating on killing people from the other factions).

[Jonny]

I like what Helwyr and RoninOni were touching on with the idea of stealing resources from the enemy (which were generated from territory control).

The longer a large base (ie tech plant/bio dome) is owned by one faction, the more nanites are stockpiled there out of the empires total resource pool. This could be a small percentage of the total amount of resources.

Take a special vehicle to their base and get back to your own and you steal those nanites from that faction. The stockpiled nanites however would not be stolen with normal base capturing. (That would be a major game mechanic change)

[Boone]

That's quite a good idea. But in general, if everyone could harvest and get resources, then I kinda see a situation where everyone logs on, groups up, goes off to harvest in friendly territory to get more "money" and nobody attacks anything.

I think players should be directed to the worthy aim of exterminating each other relentlessly and taking their territories.

For me, NPC harvesters that only accessed friendly hexes directly connected to bases would be win - because if you can't assault the base directly, you can make it less useful to the enemy by destroying its resource collection facilities (the vehicles) and by capping hexes nearby to stop its vehicles from accesisng them.

So instead of just having base capture as the only part of the tactical meta game, you've got a reason to attack and defend empty hexes, or these NPC collectors. It should take more people out into the open rather than just concentrating on bases giving a whole different type of gameplay (but that's still concentrating on killing people from the other factions).

That's why I think there should be lakes that "pop" at random times for you to resource which of course would have a max of how much could be taken out. You can only spawn a gathering vehicle to harvest, this vehicle can only be spawned with the same materials you get out of these lakes.

You could be in a huge battle and message "Lake X now readily available for harvest".

Do you leave to capture the base? Do you leave to gain/stop others from gaining rare materials? I dunno, my thought on it.

[Phisionary]

New element

A good way for this is dynamically spawned nodes that need harvesting - Auraxis's core is a little unstable and randomly explodes resources upwards. First empire to sucessfully harvest and get the transport back get's a nice resource boost.

Incidentally, it would be super cool if these nodes actually spawned as a mini eruption. Imagine running in the middle of nowhere and you're screen starts to shake...I was thinking about this concept... ways to dynamically introduce a new mining or resource site without breaking game immersion or lore too much. I agree some sort of geologic pseudosciencing could make some cool effects. Eruptions from the ground, lava, or something else, would be spectacular. Or, some other strange physical effects... I was thinking, glowing rocks (I'm imagining battling over a luminescent landscape, lit up by it's own illumination at night), or maybe some antigravity... you know, there was a suggestion of some floating islands in another thread... 'Unobtanium', anybody?

Another idea I was thinking (and this has been suggested before), is meteor strikes. They're too rare on earth to be much use, but real meteors are supposed to have high concentrations of platinum group metals. So maybe meteors could have value as a resource.

Or, and this is the idea I prefer, meteors in PS2 could actually be fragments from ancient Vanu technology or something. This tech would be a new resource, either because it was some un-reproducible substance, or because it is actually technology. A 'technology' resource could be used as a justification for the introduction of a new tier of weapons, vehicles, etc., sometime along the '3-year plan' for PS2.

Anyway, they could manifest as this huge fiery ball that streaks across the sky over a continent. Hundreds of players might see it go over. Those that did would know there would be an epic battle at the end of that trail, and would immediately be trying to pinpoint where the meteor(s) had landed. They would need to make plans to occupy a nearby base to have a chance at harvesting the resource, if it wasn't in their territory already.

Maybe this kind of event would happen a couple times a week, realtime, per cont., to which this mechanism applied? Rare enough to be special, but often enough that you'd have a chance at that play if you're a regular.
I believe that idea has a lot of potential.

[typhaon]

I think it has fantastic potential. We'll see how it is realized.

[RoninOni]

I like what Helwyr and RoninOni were touching on with the idea of stealing resources from the enemy (which were generated from territory control).

The longer a large base (ie tech plant/bio dome) is owned by one faction, the more nanites are stockpiled there out of the empires total resource pool. This could be a small percentage of the total amount of resources.

Take a special vehicle to their base and get back to your own and you steal those nanites from that faction. The stockpiled nanites however would not be stolen with normal base capturing. (That would be a major game mechanic change)

those resource pools that could be stolen would be naturally farmed by that territories automatic local resource harvesters... which could be destroyed of course to limit that territories resource generation.

Alternatively you could drive your own manually controlled harvester into enemy territory with an escort to steal those resources... if you collect them, then their harvester cannot, and you can bring them back to base to be deposited to your faction... giving a slight bonus for the squad that makes the return.

There would be no need to harvest local resources as they're farmed automatically, the only thing players need to do is guard them from enemy attacks, and to guard their territories from enemy harvesters trying to steal resources. If you use a harvester to harvest local resources, you get no bonus. They must be stolen resources to get a bonus.

NPC harvesters would have no pilot seat but an automated MG turret that a player could man. A spawned harvester would not have any AI but could be player driven to enemy territory for resource theft. as well as an anti-infantry MG turret... for AV/AA protection you need an escort. Turret is just to make it so 1-2 lone soldiers can't easily harass harvesters.

[sgtbjack]

"1) Player Owned bases - we plan on releasing continents that are empty or partially empty where players can build their own bases. These are open world bases so others will be able to attack them. We're also planning on having these continents heavily resource based with new resource types that will be very rare..and lots of cool new stuff that can be built out of these new resources.

2) Harvestable resources - imagine SC II style resource harvesting with physical vehicles doing the mining or the harvesting." The Smedmeiser

when I see these quotes where stacked together, you get the full picture, or at least I think I do(I am wrong usually though, just ask my ex wives), but I like it.

I can see clan built cities having a reason to fight. Plus I like the idea of having somewhere to go when the continental warfighting's slow(late hours and what not), plus defending your home's always a good motivator, along with defending resource nodes.

My only concern is that these continents, end up being more fun to contend over, and leave the main continents barren? I wonder how they would address this(plus you add in this arena/warzone/battleground thing smed was talking about?), you may end up having to have larger servers to compensate for all the different pvp options?

I'm thinking since the quotes are together, that harvesting nodes will be found on the continents that you can build on, which would in theory make them pretty highly contested over. I like the idea of covering and securing areas for the good of your harvestors though. It adds that whole "hit their resource collectors, hit their clan where it hurts" game play into the mix. Just another layer in my opinion.

[RoninOni]

Not necessarily... It's a list of ideas, not 1 idea with multiple parts.

However that said, I think the only NPC's (another item on the list) they should add should be that of the harvesters. Maybe some base defenses (auto turrets) which could be manned (and the AI would be inferior to a capable player)

[Chrispin]

Yeah!
http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncimg/img_archive/wall/miners.gif

[Hamma]

:rofl:

Win.

[Oryon22]

Yeah!
http://nyerguds.arsaneus-design.com/cncimg/img_archive/wall/miners.gif

wow that brings me back. Shit like that makes me feel old and i'm only 26 :rolleyes: