SmedBlog (last year): NPC Enemies and Armies

[Hunterzen]

PLEASE NO, SOE already committed murder with SWG's CU/NGE. Please don't do the same to PS2. Don't mean to sound over dramatic, but I will never forgive SOE for what yall did to potentially the greatest game to have ever been conceived ever in all Universes. God what I would give for SWG to be relaunched Pre NGE/CU. :cry::cry: /endrant

[Saraketh]

The only time i could see NPC's working is potentially in a situation where 1 race has nearly conquered the continent, an outbreak of some sort might provide distraction to allow the other races a slight foothold.

This comes from an under dog's point of view but don't do a modern warfare and reward the best players with extra stuff like armies of computer controlled bots.

[sgtbjack]

Uncertain about NPC armies. I think the players shouldn't be substituted for NPCs when going against other players.

NPC enemy invasion might be a cool treat or event at some points, but not on a regular basis.

+1

I don't want to always be hampered by npc's, but a giant alien monkey wrench randomely thrown into the cogs every once in a blue moon, would be welcome. I like unpredictable chaos, but I don't like (insert all other mmo's here) npc's clogging up the fun, by being in the damn way 24/7

PLEASE NO, SOE already committed murder with SWG's CU/NGE. Please don't do the same to PS2. Don't mean to sound over dramatic, but I will never forgive SOE for what yall did to potentially the greatest game to have ever been conceived ever in all Universes. God what I would give for SWG to be relaunched Pre NGE/CU. :cry::cry: /endrant

Not really sure how this has anything to do with anything?

The only way I'd be cool with npc's, is if they randomely invaded and disappeared very shortly after leaving me on the phone with my brother or friends saying "what the %%%% was that, I was capping a node and some %%%%ing alien things killed all of us and then flew away!!!)

It would have to be so random and rare that it would be half myth and not something expected.

[AceofSpadesX]

Uncertain about NPC armies. I think the players shouldn't be substituted for NPCs when going against other players.

NPC enemy invasion might be a cool treat or event at some points, but not on a regular basis.

+1 :clap:

[vVRedOctoberVv]

NPCs in this game should be avoided like a terrible flesh eating plague. There is absolutely NO reason to do this in a game that has 2,000 players per continent. What purpose can NPCs serve that having PEOPLE doing the same thing could not do better? This is not a game with a handful of friends playing together, or players vs horde. It's entire armies of PLAYERS fighting each other. There is no logical reason to include NPCs. Note: I said "logical", there are plenty of "illogical" reasons to do it.

Wildlife or whatever would be fine, even hostile wildlife. But NOT 4th faction alien AI invaders. If there is a 4th faction added, fine, no harm in adding to the shenanigans. But it should consist of players, not AI.

Kids, just so NO to stupid ideas.

[Dkamanus]

I can see only two situations where NPCs would be plausable in a game like PS2.

- Indigenous Life Forms - Animal wildlife and stuff. This could be interesting, either by having them to shoot for the giggles, while going to battle, or actually having some charge some rank/formation randomly. Something big or small, passive or agressive, it would increasae immersion in the game.

- Vanu mini events - Something like a 20 min event that happens randomly in whatever hex there is in the Continent. If its not a node/facility/hex in dispute, it'll matter little, but the fun part would be if a Vanu invasion actually happened while players where fighting each other, and the Vanu would start shooting everyone.

Both cases, the idea would be of something being beneficial, or detrimental to the factions disputing the hex. No perma PvE area. That would be stupid. If you want a FPS with loads of PvE Content, go defiance.

[SixShooter]

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[Phantomdestiny]

in my opinion it could be inspired from tyranids in w40k http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111012144458/dow/images/thumb/c/c2/Tyranid_art_fex_gaunts.jpg/640px-Tyranid_art_fex_gaunts.jpg

so you could get some random drop of big invasion at bases (every 2 weeks or so ) or just a small amount hunting (fauna and flora ) around the jungles for example that could kill lone wolf soldiers

http://nature-plants.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/veneruna-muholovka-300x225.jpg

[sgtbjack]

or just a small amount hunting (fauna and flora ) around the jungles for example that could kill lone wolf soldiers

http://nature-plants.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/veneruna-muholovka-300x225.jpg

Only if its the massive sandworms from beetlejuice that just dig around looking for afk'ers lol

Of course than, I'm sure we would start setting up afk bait to see if we could kill said beetlejuice worm lol

1. very random invasions that create anarchy are ok
2. npc armies that are controlled by players? NO!
3. npc soldiers that just lolly gag around? NO!
4. Maybe the occasional space lizard roaming the wilds, that run from gun fire? Well sure, if its a slow night, not many people on the server, I might go out and try to shoot local wildlife.

[Phantomdestiny]

Only if its the massive sandworms from beetlejuice that just dig around looking for afk'ers lol

Of course than, I'm sure we would start setting up afk bait to see if we could kill said beetlejuice worm lol

1. very random invasions that create anarchy are ok
2. npc armies that are controlled by players? NO!
3. npc soldiers that just lolly gag around? NO!
4. Maybe the occasional space lizard roaming the wilds, that run from gun fire? Well sure, if its a slow night, not many people on the server, I might go out and try to shoot local wildlife.

that's exactly what i ment ^_^

[Helwyr]

Like a few others have stated I wouldn't object to NPC wildlife to make planets feel a little more alive. If it was added it would have to be well done, like Saga of Ryzom did, and Sony's own SWG did reasonably well. However, there should never be any kind of reward for killing the NPCs as that would take PS2 down a perilous road to shitdom. There should never be any doubt even among the most delusional that PS2 is a 100% PvP game. Also such additions are not worth adding at the expense of gameplay performance and higher system requirements.

[RoninOni]

Why increase sys performance? Just render ugly textures on wildlife for min spec PCs :lol:

[alexdxvi]

To be honest the NPC armies sounds awful. I don't know why they thought of adding such a thing.

The alien invasion thing on the other hand does sound like a lot of fun. Playing Face of Mankind very often, large scale pvp fights are the main focus of that game, I can say it is a lot of fun to meet with some friends and fight against a NPC alien invasion from time to time.

[SirWhiteshadow]

I think if done correctly, the invasion events could be fun and challenging, but we wouldn't want to see them too often. Maybe like a week long event where there are alien attacks randomly at hot spots, but I don't think it would be appropriate too often.

As for commanding NPC armies...for some reason it makes me think of killstreak perks in Crap of Dooty. I see too many people focusing solely on whatever would be required to trigger such an event, and taking away from overall gameplay.

Events, however, could be pretty cool, under the right circumstances. I could see it being fun to force all 3 factions to fend off an NPC army in order to regain the opportunity to control precious resources, but only for a few days or so just to shake things up.

[sgtbjack]

I think if done correctly, the invasion events could be fun and challenging, but we wouldn't want to see them too often. Maybe like a week long event where there are alien attacks randomly at hot spots, but I don't think it would be appropriate too often.

As for commanding NPC armies...for some reason it makes me think of killstreak perks in Crap of Dooty. I see too many people focusing solely on whatever would be required to trigger such an event, and taking away from overall gameplay.

Events, however, could be pretty cool, under the right circumstances. I could see it being fun to force all 3 factions to fend off an NPC army in order to regain the opportunity to control precious resources, but only for a few days or so just to shake things up.

I would honestly want them to be so random that people that where not on wouldn't believe they happened lol

[andehh]

I would honestly want them to be so random that people that where not on wouldn't believe they happened lol

Just like the bending, remember the voice that started it off....

It should only be 2-3 times a year and be something truly awe inspiring. Stuff that should make gaming news sites internet side.

It would be such publicity, and a real talking point!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[Rat]

Here is a thought...what if pushing a empire all the way back to their warpgate triggered a invasion in their(whoever got pushed back) most populated warpgate...I dont think it would happen often and it would give everyone a goal other than resource control.

altho punishing a loser may not be a good thing.

[Redshift]

One is simple - Alien NPCsThey are superpowerful aliens that come in and attack everyone. But they would be nasty as hell.

Smed

Like BFR's and black ops? They fuck everyone off except the person controlling them. They killed the first game dead.

The rest of it sounds like playing a firefight game, except in a game not designed for or marketed to people who want firefights, it'll be done badly and even if somehow it's not, people won't like it.

[Ghostwithbroken]

I love the alien infestation idea, it will cause chaos from time to time.

On the other side, the only controlable NPCs that should be enabled are the supporting ones.

Some sort of UAV.

You can send it to the next nearby enemy base, and its visuals should be streamed at the command center, other security places in our base and at adjecant friendly vehicles.

Repair bots.

At some rank, a single engineer can control a group of repair bots from bird perspective, and support your armored forces.

Mobile healing/ammo tents

Same like repair bots, but for infantry support.

Mobile camo vehicles (that can be revealed by enemys UAV's)

Any unit that stays in some range around it will be cloaked until it shoots, so you can do a surprise attack with a pack of MAX units or MBTs, without being noticed so fast.

Mobile forcefields

I think that this kind of stuff could improve your Intelli, and supporting orientation in the game. And it would be a lot easier for commanders of squads to actually command.

[VaderShake]

Maybe they could use Alien invasions as an opportunity to introduce new vehicles/tech to the battlefield that is confenscated or developed from the alien tech for all or faction specific.

Over all I would be open to the 4th alien faction that randomly shows up maybe 3-4 times a year, as long as it is done well and relevant to the battle. Also a stray alien group popping up here or there ahead of random invasions would be cool as well, lets you know their coming and could impact map strategy as each team preps for the invasion.

Also if there were small random groups of aliens around you could defeat them earning "special" resources for special vehicles or weapons. But keep it random and logical.

Lets see what they do with this thing already...and get playing, come on beat for the rest of us!

[Buggsy]

*shrugs*

[Blackwolf]

After reading everyones posts, I have to say my vote is for wildlife only. Npc armies and even npc invasion probably wouldnt be done well enough to warrant the effort to deviate from PS2's core gameplay. Killing bots in a pvp game wouldnt be that fun for me.

I have to agree with this.

While I suspect that balancing a pure PvP game to include PvE in it as well would be infinitely easier then balancing a PvE game to include PvP in it as an addition. I think that PS2 should just focus on making the PvP as fun as possible, leave the PvE out of it completely.

Fauna, cool. Harvesters? If you want them in the game you should have started work 12 months ago. Adding a half-assed harvest system into the game to create something new and unique for bases on some of the continents won't be a popular choice.

As for the raids. Come on people, if it was an event that happened on one continent at a time once every 2 months would you REALLY not play PS2? Some people might like the "defeat the waves" game once in awhile as a break from the every day humdrum. I know I could appreciate it. I'm not participating if it was a giant monster that we had to team up to fight. For an FPS game that sounds not at all fun.

[OMGitsRyGy]

I would just like to add that I am perfectly OK with NPC aliens as long as they are limited to the arachnids from Starship Troopers and they only attack that one stronghold. Because the only thing that could make Planetside 2 better is if it was also Starship Troopers

[FuzzyandBlue]

For everyone getting up in arms about Smed's Hero comment, you may not want feel like a hero while playing the game. Can any of you say that you don't want to feel like Badass?

I see many people saying no to NPCs. The most common reason is that it doesn't fit into planetside. Could be great in another game but not in my Planetside. My first reaction is, who are you to say what fits in PS2? Many of us haven't even played the game. On top of that, not a single person in this community has yet to put a single penny towards PS2. Now you can say that you subbed to PS1 all these years, and that's why this game is being made. Really? No this game is being made because SOE thinks that they can make money from this game. No company is going to make a multi-million dollar investment because 5000 people play their game 9 years after its release.

My second thought is that PS1 was practically dead at launch. I'm not talking in playerbase(although it never did get to a very impressive number). The game lost most of its support from SOE right around release.(correct me if I'm wrong.) If that game had been actively supported for 5-6 years who know what it would be like today. So its hard for us to say what Planetside is, because as far as I can tell Planetside was never finished. In 9 years it had 5 major content updates, and based on what I've heard each one was hated for its own reasons. Who know NPCs could have been added to the game.

My third thought is related to current and future competition. Do you think Planetside 2 has slipped under the radar of every other publisher and developer out there? No, they are watching PS2 closely. They want to see where it succeeds and where it fails. Who knows what projects will come out in the next few years. The only thing, on the market, that even kind of competes with PS2 is Firefall. They fill different roles right now, but there is nothing stopping Firefall from adding larger objective based PVP battles in the future, so long as the engine allows for it.

The last thing I will say is that it all comes down to proper implementation. I don't want NPCs affecting the core game at all. I don't like the invasion idea, I don't like the animal idea. and I think player controlled AI units conflict with the mission system. But i wouldn't mind a continent or two that are dedicated to either a hybrid PVE/PVP or a pure PVE experience. I wouldn't mind have a 4th NPC faction that is limited to its own instanced area. It wouldn't be for everyone. Some might like it others might not. As a few people have said this is an MMO first. MMOs thrive off of variety. The more variety you offer the more players you will draw. More players means more money. Maybe some people don't want to play PVP 24/7, if SOE could cater to them without affecting the core game what does it matter?

On the side, I'm surprised at the number of people that are opposed to NPCs that actually do something, but would be okay with pointless animals wandering around. If something in a game serves no purpose why add it in?

TL;DR Don't bother posting TL;DR below this post no cares if you're to lazy to read a longer post.

[exLupo]

The last thing I will say is that it all comes down to proper implementation.

And it's too late for that. Unless they've been keeping a tight lid on this the whole time and actually have had it as part of the plan since before code, it's going to be a radical new mechanic tacked on too late in development.

In addition to that, they are leveraging the spirit of PS1 for this new project. The game's baggage, for good or ill, includes the core concept of a player controlled war where your targets are just as smart and unpredictable as you. NPCs are unwelcome by many in this thread because they want PS2 to be an evolution of PS1, not a re-imagining. Most of the design changes from 1 to 2 have been refinements, choices given birth by a decade of FPS evolution.

Now, I'm not saying NPC integration has gone poorly for action games. Far from it. Look at both the success of DotA styled MOBAs and the new TF2 horde mode. Hell, look at horde mode on its own. It's -extremely- popular regardless of console or PC audience. NPCs in multi-player action games aren't unwelcome. I can see those dollar signs as easy motivators for Smedco.

That being said, people who loved PS1 despite its failures would rather their targets stay the meaty and thinking variety.

Smedco may also be looking at EVE for a hybrid PvP/E world but the mobs there, for the PvP focused audience, are there purely to crush for cash to fund PvP ventures. The down-side of that comparison is that the NPCs are seen purely as a source for money, not actual engaging content. It's filler. Or look at Global Agenda. It is also a PvP/E hybrid from inception and its PvE content (open worldish or mission) are there to cater to people who don't want to fight (at the time or at all). PS1 is a PvP game and these are two examples of PvP/E hybrids where the NPCs have little-to-no actual interaction with the PvP portion of the game, no good or bad. And then there's Firefall, of which none of us can really speak. All three are hybrid games with NPCs in from an early stage if not concept. Firefall showcases integration, GA segregation and EVE filler.

For those in favor of NPCs, what facet is PS2 missing that it needs NPCs to fill? Is what you know of PS2 not good enough without them?

[RoninOni]

For everyone getting up in arms about Smed's Hero comment, you may not want feel like a hero while playing the game. Can any of you say that you don't want to feel like Badass?

I see many people saying no to NPCs. The most common reason is that it doesn't fit into planetside. Could be great in another game but not in my Planetside. My first reaction is, who are you to say what fits in PS2? Many of us haven't even played the game. On top of that, not a single person in this community has yet to put a single penny towards PS2. Now you can say that you subbed to PS1 all these years, and that's why this game is being made. Really? No this game is being made because SOE thinks that they can make money from this game. No company is going to make a multi-million dollar investment because 5000 people play their game 9 years after its release.

My second thought is that PS1 was practically dead at launch. I'm not talking in playerbase(although it never did get to a very impressive number). The game lost most of its support from SOE right around release.(correct me if I'm wrong.) If that game had been actively supported for 5-6 years who know what it would be like today. So its hard for us to say what Planetside is, because as far as I can tell Planetside was never finished. In 9 years it had 5 major content updates, and based on what I've heard each one was hated for its own reasons. Who know NPCs could have been added to the game.

My third thought is related to current and future competition. Do you think Planetside 2 has slipped under the radar of every other publisher and developer out there? No, they are watching PS2 closely. They want to see where it succeeds and where it fails. Who knows what projects will come out in the next few years. The only thing, on the market, that even kind of competes with PS2 is Firefall. They fill different roles right now, but there is nothing stopping Firefall from adding larger objective based PVP battles in the future, so long as the engine allows for it.

The last thing I will say is that it all comes down to proper implementation. I don't want NPCs affecting the core game at all. I don't like the invasion idea, I don't like the animal idea. and I think player controlled AI units conflict with the mission system. But i wouldn't mind a continent or two that are dedicated to either a hybrid PVE/PVP or a pure PVE experience. I wouldn't mind have a 4th NPC faction that is limited to its own instanced area. It wouldn't be for everyone. Some might like it others might not. As a few people have said this is an MMO first. MMOs thrive off of variety. The more variety you offer the more players you will draw. More players means more money. Maybe some people don't want to play PVP 24/7, if SOE could cater to them without affecting the core game what does it matter?

On the side, I'm surprised at the number of people that are opposed to NPCs that actually do something, but would be okay with pointless animals wandering around. If something in a game serves no purpose why add it in?

TL;DR Don't bother posting TL;DR below this post no cares if you're to lazy to read a longer post.

#1: I payed $20 just to get into the beta 2 weeks earlier than I already was. and IDGAF if that doesn't make sense, I'm impatient and can afford it and at least it goes to SOE (and I think they know why when they count the numbers lmao)

#2: Planetside even still is being touted and promoted for the fact that as you explore the world, all those combat units are ACTUAL PLAYERS. NPC armies would ruin that.

#3: There are other games designed around coop PvE focus. Borderlands 2 and Firefall, for me, jump to the top of the list of upcomming PvE shooters. And no matter how hard SOE tries, they won't beat them in the PvE department... however if they try they COULD ruin the #1 thing that makes Planetside so addictive.



Understand this, while yes, I will leave Auraxis from time to time to go play some laid back PvE, the time I spend ON Auraxis precisely because of it's PvP will FAR outweight my time away. And the money I spend will reflect that.

If they spoil that experience... the time, and money, I spend on Planetside 2 WILL without a doubt, reduce significantly.

[VikingKong]

To be honest the NPC armies sounds awful. I don't know why they thought of adding such a thing.
Waterboy "Don***39;t smoke crack" - YouTube

[Blackwolf]

Can any of you say that you don't want to feel like Badass?

There's only 2 times where I feel like a badass. Slaying dragons in Skyrim, and PvP. Neither of those times involve PvE in an MMO setting.

Skyrim is a game designed from the beginning around a single player. What Smed wants to do, is try to warp a multiplayer game so that a single player is the center of all the action (or at least so that every single player that plays the game feels like the center of the action). This doesn't work in MMOs. Everyone has tried it and everyone has failed miserably. The most effort and biggest in your face failure is ToR, which might as well have been made a single player game.

Planetside was always one of those games that never tried making everyone the center of the action. That, to me, is what set's it apart from other games. It isn't JUST that it's pure pvp. It's that you are an individual in an army. You're part of something bigger then yourself and you fight side by side with others even if you aren't in a squad.

Feeling like a badass is something I want to earn. It's not something I want handed to me. "Here shoot the idiot NPC! That will help you feel better!" no it doesn't.

[dzuari]

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with that said, the only way i could really see it working is a random break from the routine every couple of months or maybe even a 1 time thing, a special event. But, the only way it would work is if it gave all factions a common enemy. They would have to be so powerful that all the factions would have no other choice than to set aside their battles to beat the npc army. i still think its a bad idea though.

[MaxDamage]

My second thought is that PS1 was practically dead at launch. I'm not talking in playerbase(although it never did get to a very impressive number). The game lost most of its support from SOE right around release.(correct me if I'm wrong.)

Dead? I was there. It was far from 'dead'.
Spending ages in a warpgate waiting for the queues to continent to expire because they were full is not dead.

I have found support for Planetside and development very intelligent from SOE apart from perhaps the caverns which I never liked, but the introduction of achievements/unlocks, new weapons, new vehicles, new vehicle variants, more advanced hacking and engineering abilities and deployables; evolution of the gameplay itself with capitol bases, LLUs, modification of gameplay based on user feedback and practicality..

I don't see any evidence that supports your version of events at all.

[AnamNantom]

I still think that programmable AI would be fun in Planetside. Maybe even allow infiltrators to program AI viruses that traverse the data lines between the bases of Auraxis, and firewalls to impede them.

You have your "hardware" war going on, as well as the "software" war.

[OCNSethy]

I would like to see the NPC Invasion played out on the test server first but Im kinda 'meh' around an army of NPCs

[Selerox]

Uncertain about NPC armies. I think the players shouldn't be substituted for NPCs when going against other players.

NPC enemy invasion might be a cool treat or event at some points, but not on a regular basis.

+1

NPC invasion as a one-off mega event only.

[basti]

Just to repeat myself once again:

Not gonna happen. The day NPCs walk auraxis is the day Players leave it.

[MrMak]

Id be for an Alien ivasion on a specific continent (so that those who REALY dont want to dont have to deal with it) once or twice a month (with some sort of warning a few days prior on the given server) and perhaps a larger Auraxis wide one on special ocasions.

As for NPC armies...no .....just......no. Some simple drones defending bases to deter ghost capers yes. But actual armies doing the fighting for us? NO.

[Mustakrakish]

Feeling ambivalent about NPCs. Having AI on base turrets would be nice, though.

[Shogun]

sure, the devs removed my beloved spitfire turrets because they wanted thw players to be fighting other players and not the engine...

and then they want to introduce ai enemies? where´s the reasoning?
gimme back my spittys. and don´t you dare to mention ai enemies again until then!

[Helwyr]

I'm doing targeted feedback threads on all items from Smed's Blog (http://john-smedley.livejournal.com/2412.html). This one is for NPC Enemies/Armies.

Thoughts!

If Smedly thinks PvE is a good idea he should leave PS2 design to others and go back to playing EVE where he can indulge in PvE in a game already ruined by it long ago.

Edit: Dammit AnamNantom and your necromancy!

[Dougnifico]

I'm always open to new things but I would be highly skeptical of this. I would have to see it on test before agreeing to it and that would be a very large investment for something that's a maybe.

[Shogun]

I'm always open to new things but I would be highly skeptical of this. I would have to see it on test before agreeing to it and that would be a very large investment for something that's a maybe.

there are hundrets of things i would like to see on testserver other than ai enemies! and worthy ai enemies would suck up too many hours of devtime!

balancing would be the horror! people are complaining about hackers that use aimbots. so you think having ai enemies (which ARE aimbots) would improve the game? with this low battleawareness in the game players would have no chance against ai! or the ai has to be programmed too stupid, so they shoot at each other and don´t take notice of players most of the time. but then you
it happens all the time, that i end up with vanus in one room and nobody notices that we should kill each other.

[BlazingSun]

As if SOE was capable of programming AI that could contend with moving around and operating on such a big scale. Very illusionary .... That alone would make it a total failure.

[Qwan]

Any of you guys play Warframe, the AI on high lvl's are tough and very smart, they use cover and fire in burst, as well as manuever. Though this is a small scale compared to PS, its still a fun co-op game. I would like to see some AI aliens attacking everyone, maybe in events or instances that would happen monthly for outfit XP and stuff. I dont know I would need more detail, for an honest opinion.

[Babyfark McGeez]

I think a good idea would be something to assist defense. Like, i dunno, an automated turret that spits fire. You could call it "Spitfire Turret".

NPC armies and alien invasions sound a tad too much (allthough i'm not necessarily dead set against something like this). Then again this is a fairly old thread so i dunno how much of this is still being considered by the devs anyways.

[Mastachief]

Holy thread necro batman



Not gonna happen. The day NPCs walk auraxis is the day Players leave it.

^^^this

[almalino]

If I want to fight AI enemies I will buy single player game.

Spitfire turret though I have nothing against it. Why not? We have auto triggering mines already. Why not to have automatic turrets as a engineer device?

It should be spotting enemies, be fragile and should be more about killing stationary soldiers. Moving soldiers should have no problems avoiding it fire.

[Assist]

big necro, sure to stir up comments! +1!

Personally not a big fan of the invading NPC army idea. I am a huge fan of NPC/AI defensive systems at bases though. DAoC had roaming patrols around their keeps and when they died gave a report in system chat to the clan that controlled that keep. Example: "Vanu Defender NPC#1 reports X enemies spotted around Peris Amp Station". Before you guys state that this leads to tons of spam, remember it's only for the outfit that controls that base. At that point it's up to the outfit to relay the information to the rest of the faction.
Should also be able to upgrade said NPC defenses, and increase the number of patrols around the base, etc.
I'm sure it would never happen, as it's one of those ideas that usually pisses off a large group of people who are afraid of adding actual defenses to a base. Which sucks, because it could add a whole other layer to outfits beyond just another form of communication. Could make upgrading these outfit owned bases expensive, which means the outfit wouldn't want to lose the base, which the guard spam would help inform that outfit of impending doom... Goes on and on.

[NewSith]

If I want to fight AI enemies I will buy single player game.

Spitfire turret though I have nothing against it. Why not? We have auto triggering mines already. Why not to have automatic turrets as a engineer device?

It should be spotting enemies, be fragile and should be more about killing stationary soldiers. Moving soldiers should have no problems avoiding it fire.

I would actually love a singleplayer PlanetSide game developed by some non-affiliated company.

[Carbon Copied]

Just to add fuel necromessaging (I did want an inuendo there but words fail me :p ) - if PvPvPvE ever came to substance it would have to be done very carefully, I think the whole versus AI faction would be an awful decision but could work with enviromental creatures.
One idea I had when PS2 was still pre-release is that these environmentals could be worked into the resource systems so rather than them getting in the way there's a situational point to them of risk vs reward; flip base x then in order to increase resource output you fight your way into the mine/caverns to activate a consumable node of some sort that amplifies the resources (auraxium) out of that hex; it gives that tactical choice of "do we keep the front line moving or stay and increase the output resources". It's a very loose scenario but those were the lines.

The only thing if any PvE does occur is I can't see it being something that should get in the way of the PvP aspect and also the enviromentals themselves shouldn't offer any xp but going through them for an objective does; else people will just sit farming them for ease.

[Babyfark McGeez]

What i loved to do back when i was still mapping was to insert one or two giant-ass monsters into my multiplayer maps (from cyberdemons in doom deathmatch maps to these bigass boulder-throwing dudes in unreal ctf maps). That spiced things up a littlebit without dominating the style of play (you still could just play ctf or dm without having to run into these things).
Something similar could work very well here, and as far as i am concerned traps like man-eating plants (or whatever they had in store for hossin) work pretty much in the same way. You know where potentially a monster/trap could lurk around so you avoid that area. Or not. Whatever you're on about. You still have the choice.

[WSNeo]

This thread:
Altered Beast - Rise From Your Grave - YouTube

[wasdie]

Ah good ol Necro'd threads.

Anyways I've actually given this idea some thought when Smedly first talked about it. So here are those thoughts. The short of it, NPCs aren't a terrible idea but the amount of time it would take them to work properly isn't worth it at all. I would rather the devs just focused on what they are focusing on now and skip the NPC army. That said, they could work and add fun to this game without ruining anything else.

NPCs could fit into this game, but in only a few roles. You couldn't have a 4th NPC army that functions similar to any of the 3 as AI can never replace humans and could never feel as authentic as the rest of the combat. So that's just a pointless waste of time.

Instead NPCs could be used behind the lines as the resource logistics. They could only follow lanes that connect the continent warpgate through friendly territory. These NPCs could be driving along the roads with a very basic automatic turret defense in convoys that carry resources to the bases. If they make it to the various facilities, the facilities naturally grow stronger and could withstand sieges longer. Cutting off these convoys is a way to weaken defenses, strength of the turrets, capture timers, strength of the generators defense against overloads, strength of the terminals. Stuff like that. A cut off base would be weaker against an attacking force than that of one that is supplied by the NPC convoys. Note, this is a separate mechanic from the NTU.

So a basic logistics role that makes the factions feel like they are actually armies, not just players spawning all over the map killing each other. A connected territory to a warpgate will have active logistics going on. Something to give the usually empty space some life and to make the armies feel more fleshed out.

Very basic role that adds a bit of mechanics to the gameplay without really taking anything away.

The second way I can see them working would be more aggressive as a 4th faction, but not just a faction similar to one of the 3. They would need to be some sort of Zerg like faction with a mob mentality that just swarms over the land. That's a function that the AI could do that players wouldn't be very good at. They would attack a continent like once a day or something like that and could end up breaking the future continent lattice and just give us something else to fight over for awhile.

Think Starship Troopers. Could be a lot of fun if done right.

Those are my ideas. Both won't add too much to the overall game and neither would take away anything from the current game. Because that's the only real safe way to implement AI, where the base PvP game is not affected at all, AI is a pointless waste of time. They should just keep developing more continents, vehicles, and improving on mechanics we have already to make the game better.

I would love to see Smedly's idea of each server being one large planet where you could seamlessly travel around it over the oceans or through space. That's a much better long term goal for the dev team.

[MrMak]

For aliens i can see 2 options that are viable.

Zerg/Tyranid/Arachnid like swarm like mentioned above.

Ancient automatons left by the original Vanu to protect something.

[HiroshiChugi]

Ancient automatons left by the original Vanu to protect something.

Like the Forerunner technology in Halo 4? xD But seriously, have it be the actual Vanu if anything, so you're not completely copying any games.

[Gonefshn]

Not a big fan of MOBA style stuff but an invasion event could be cool.

[Phantomdestiny]

i'm more for dangerous fauna and flora than npc armies . My example you are driving on your flash on the indar desert when suddenly a giant worm comes out of the ground and attacks you .

this kind of thing http://cdawgownd.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/rift-worm.jpg or dangerous flora that fires poison darts at you on hossin . Something that bring atmosphere and life to the environments but no game breaking NPC armies / More Player against environement (to a small scale not huge) and less players against humanoid bots which doesn't bring anything new to the game

[Shogun]

you know that the devs (higby i think, but i am not going to dig up the source) already said, what kind of ai they were looking into?

they said they wanted the players to be able to get (or craft or whatever) ai companions that could be programmable. like droids. maybe you could cert behaviour patterns for your r2d2 and send it out to defend the capturepoint, or follow you as an escort or whatever.

this may sound cool, but i would prefer spitfire turrets and being able to upgrade baseturrets to autofire. means less developement time and less performanceloss.

[Chaff]

.
TIN FOIL HAT TIME

.....hate to burst your bubble guys ..... NPCs are already in the game ..... and when you log out .... they use your name to play as one of SOE's NPCs ..... you only play 30 minutes a week ..... well, we think you play 16 hours a day ..... they want new (and old-current) players to come in an actually "think" they're playing a real game with large pops of active players .....
(BTW.....my NPC is BR 1648, but I'm not BR 40 yet).

....however, my NPC is programmed to play like a BR 2 with no skills, so if you pown me in-game .... you know it WASN'T ME ... it was my NPC making it easy on the few "real" players on line .... so ... they think they're good .... and keep playing ... and keep payin' ........ savvy ?
.

[Rivenshield]

Being able to unite against a merciless alien foe -- if there was sufficient windup before the pitch; as in popup reports for a few days of strange occurrences, rumors, objects appearing in orbit, etc.; then perhaps a day or two of mass free-for-all before you get the popup telling you that we are now allied with the other two empires against a common foe -- would be wonderful.

NPC armies would be the new BFR's. They would destroy this game. Don't even.

[VaderShake]

I view this as an opportunity to gain some rare technology consumables to spend on special items. Whether it's fighting invading aliens or local flora or fauna it is of no consequence as long as there is a purpose.

I would probably prefer random flora and fauna attacks daily with an alien invasion thrown in every 2-3 months over the course of a long holiday weekend. Dump a certain number of NPC bots into the game and hunt them all until they are dead. Add a ticker to keep track and countdown so we know when they are all dead.

It would be great to see a giant insect or something come out of the ground in the middle of a fight or a swarm of giant wasps attack aircraft. Bring up the intensity a bit and throw in some random variables to adjust strategy.

I am also waiting on some extreme weather to affect the battle flow as well.

[Rahabib]

PS: I didnt read all 21 pages, and I am aware that some of this was already stated.

I think my main reservation is that once you initiate elements beyond the control of the players, it creates an imbalance. That said, I am no opposed to the ideas, per-se, but it would have to be controlled and fair.

For instance, say there is an infestation, but they tend to go after one faction more so than another, thats not fair. "YAY NC won, but only because the bugs went after VS." Wheres the satisfaction in that victory. Although in this "world" balance isn't really its strong suit. Victories are meaningless anyway, so on the other hand, it may be fun as long as you dont care about a victory objective.

As for NPC, if it was controlled it could work out - but I doubt it will. Say a leader could have a cert for "droids" or something, they could call down once every hour. A drop pod comes down out of the sky and then the leader could use the map and give them way points. They scan the area and report back. If they go out of range, they go offline (so if you see one you know you can counter it in time). The problem again is (and if anyone played Killzone series) its really cheap if you die to something that requires no skill - but again, PS2 has plenty of that still anyway.

Edit: doh, didn't realize someone necro-d. Carry on.

[Whiteagle]

Bah, why do we need Computer controlled Players?
Certainly Nanite Systems wouldn't recruit select individuals from each Faction to pose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlanetSide#Black_Ops) as Alien Invaders with 10 times the health of Normal Infantry or anything... (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=35864)

Personally not a big fan of the invading NPC army idea. I am a huge fan of NPC/AI defensive systems at bases though.
you know that the devs (higby i think, but i am not going to dig up the source) already said, what kind of ai they were looking into?

they said they wanted the players to be able to get (or craft or whatever) ai companions that could be programmable. like droids. maybe you could cert behaviour patterns for your r2d2 and send it out to defend the capturepoint, or follow you as an escort or whatever.

this may sound cool, but i would prefer spitfire turrets and being able to upgrade baseturrets to autofire. means less developement time and less performanceloss.
Indeed, I would love to have a Consumable that allows me to automate a Turret to fire at spotted Targets.

As for programmable "Companions," I doubt it will ever come to be, too much computing needed for "pets" that would most likely be cosmetics anyways.
More likely we're going to see a Spitfire Turret on Treads that patrols a path laid out by its engineer with nodes.
The higher you cert into it, the better the Turret and the more nodes you can place.

What i loved to do back when i was still mapping was to insert one or two giant-ass monsters into my multiplayer maps (from cyberdemons in doom deathmatch maps to these bigass boulder-throwing dudes in unreal ctf maps). That spiced things up a littlebit without dominating the style of play (you still could just play ctf or dm without having to run into these things).
Something similar could work very well here, and as far as i am concerned traps like man-eating plants (or whatever they had in store for hossin) work pretty much in the same way. You know where potentially a monster/trap could lurk around so you avoid that area. Or not. Whatever you're on about. You still have the choice.
i'm more for dangerous fauna and flora than npc armies . My example you are driving on your flash on the indar desert when suddenly a giant worm comes out of the ground and attacks you .

this kind of thing http://cdawgownd.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/rift-worm.jpg or dangerous flora that fires poison darts at you on hossin . Something that bring atmosphere and life to the environments but no game breaking NPC armies / More Player against environement (to a small scale not huge) and less players against humanoid bots which doesn't bring anything new to the game
This would make nice use of all that open space that goes unexplored right now because it isn't the fasted way from A to B.

Hostile Alien Fauna are much better for this then a group of Humanoid NCPs, they can't really Aimbot because they'll have few if any ranged attacks, larger ones can be a hazard for Vehicles, and they give players something to do if they get tired of the PVP competition.
Hell, you could bring back a form of Vehicle Hacking by allowing Infiltrators to tame and ride some of them.
Who wouldn't feel badass hoping on a Giant Eagle or Wasp to fly behind enemy lines?

...Doubt we could have Sand-worms though...

Instead NPCs could be used behind the lines as the resource logistics. They could only follow lanes that connect the continent warpgate through friendly territory. These NPCs could be driving along the roads with a very basic automatic turret defense in convoys that carry resources to the bases. If they make it to the various facilities, the facilities naturally grow stronger and could withstand sieges longer. Cutting off these convoys is a way to weaken defenses, strength of the turrets, capture timers, strength of the generators defense against overloads, strength of the terminals. Stuff like that. A cut off base would be weaker against an attacking force than that of one that is supplied by the NPC convoys. Note, this is a separate mechanic from the NTU.

So a basic logistics role that makes the factions feel like they are actually armies, not just players spawning all over the map killing each other. A connected territory to a warpgate will have active logistics going on. Something to give the usually empty space some life and to make the armies feel more fleshed out.
Eh, I'm against NPC active logistics...
Biggest issue is path finding, you have to make sure the NPCs can go from A to B without any hiccups, a lot easier said then done when considering the distances involved.
The easiest method is point to point navigation, but that can still be an issue.

My Centurion Spitfire idea uses the same method with its patrol nodes, but it can only go forty meters in one direction at maximum.
If there are any problems along the route the player is just going to be out of luck and need to redeploy it it better.

The little thing only knows how to follow the line drawn by those nodes, so it will keep on that track as best as can even if it leads it into a wall or into the path of a Vehicle!

While this is the simplest method, it also requires a lot of Dev work to rig up and is very easily exploitable, you only need to know how to park something in the way.
Anything more is going to require more complicated A.I., which will in-turn require more server-side computing resources.

The second way I can see them working would be more aggressive as a 4th faction, but not just a faction similar to one of the 3. They would need to be some sort of Zerg like faction with a mob mentality that just swarms over the land. That's a function that the AI could do that players wouldn't be very good at. They would attack a continent like once a day or something like that and could end up breaking the future continent lattice and just give us something else to fight over for awhile.

Think Starship Troopers. Could be a lot of fun if done right.
Yeah, I've actually been in that exact scenario on Second Life...

...You know how people complain about bad performance in Large Battles?
Imagine that, then add another couple hundred moving entities to the area...
Being killed by a swarm of warping bugs isn't as fun as you'd think man...

I would love to see Smedly's idea of each server being one large planet where you could seamlessly travel around it over the oceans or through space. That's a much better long term goal for the dev team.
Oh hells yes!
I'd even take transitional travel, where you load into one map from going over the boarders of the next, if it meant we could move and fight between land-masses!

[Ghoest9]

I still think that programmable AI would be fun in Planetside. Maybe even allow infiltrators to program AI viruses that traverse the data lines between the bases of Auraxis, and firewalls to impede them.

You have your "hardware" war going on, as well as the "software" war.


@ original bumper
<all the bad nasty stuff the mods wont let me say about you>

necro is bad

[Phantomdestiny]

the sand worms were just a random idea . any kind of fauna and flora as long as it is dangerous would do the trick. i knew the devs wanted to get animals/monsters in ps1 but they idea had to be dropped why not in ps2 ?

[Whiteagle]

the sand worms were just a random idea . any kind of fauna and flora as long as it is dangerous would do the trick. i knew the devs wanted to get animals/monsters in ps1 but they idea had to be dropped why not in ps2 ?
Indeed, I'm think more giant Rhinos and Mammoths...
Think about a tank column having to defend itself from a stamped of Infiltrator driven Mammoths on Esamir, else have their armor gored by adamantine tusks!

[Meatball Mobeus]

Please don't add NPC invasions, or at the very least dont allow them to be player controlled.

Part of what makes Planetside so great is the PvP. I log in to PS2 to fight other people, not computer AI. If I wanted that I have Rage and many other games to do that in.

[Dougnifico]

i'm more for dangerous fauna and flora than npc armies . My example you are driving on your flash on the indar desert when suddenly a giant worm comes out of the ground and attacks you .

this kind of thing http://cdawgownd.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/rift-worm.jpg or dangerous flora that fires poison darts at you on hossin . Something that bring atmosphere and life to the environments but no game breaking NPC armies / More Player against environement (to a small scale not huge) and less players against humanoid bots which doesn't bring anything new to the game

See, dangerous flora and fauna is AI I don't think many people would argue against. This is where they need to put AI resources. Then they can see how it works out and go from there.

[MrMak]

Like the Forerunner technology in Halo 4? xD But seriously, have it be the actual Vanu if anything, so you're not completely copying any games.

Actualy the Ancient guard automatons thing has been around sci fi for a long time. Just like the swarm zerglike alien thing.

So no Halo 4 most certainly did not invent the concept.

Also the VS would never dare fight against the actual Vanu. They would either aempt to ally with them or the conflict would shatter their faith entirely.

[yozzer]

Oh please no, after the experience I had with ai in ArmA where they could see and kill you from the other side of a forest. At least you had the choice if wether or not you wanted to join a server with PvP or PvE, maybe you could start a sever for fanboys of that kind of gameplay but I won't be joining it.

[Gimpylung]

Why is this thread still going.

[Phantomdestiny]

why not ?

[WSNeo]

why not ?

Because it is a shitty idea and has no place in a PvPvP game like Planetside.

[Badjuju]

Just tell me what days your doing it so I don't have to waste time logging on then logging right back off.

[Badjuju]

i'm more for dangerous fauna and flora than npc armies . My example you are driving on your flash on the indar desert when suddenly a giant worm comes out of the ground and attacks you .

this kind of thing http://cdawgownd.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/rift-worm.jpg or dangerous flora that fires poison darts at you on hossin . Something that bring atmosphere and life to the environments but no game breaking NPC armies / More Player against environement (to a small scale not huge) and less players against humanoid bots which doesn't bring anything new to the game

I wouldnt mind this if it was not random. For example, your giant worm existing only in small regions that may act as a short cut between objectives. You can chose the long safe route around, or another route that leaves you playing tremors but saves you time if you survive. Things like that, especially if there are techniques to surviving these "hazard zones."

But that is about as far as I would like to see NPCs go if people insisted they be in.

[Carbon Copied]

Random would just become annoying - if there was continental creatures then there would have to be a point to them or else they're just a gimmick that grows old very fast. Like Badjuju put they have to be risk/reward orientated not an en masse annoying side show that detracts the main game. Thats as far I'd realistically want them implemented if at all.

I think outside the whole PvE though it'd be good to see npcs take some sort of form on the faction's sanctuary/main warp area not necessarily on an interactive level but just enough for that suspension of disbelief.. there's more pressing gameplay things to fix before this makes any form of debut though.

[Hamma]

This was a crazy necro but I'll allow it.. it's always a hot topic and it's interesting to see peoples thoughts.

[GeoGnome]

I have kind of jokingly said that what they need to do, is introduce sandworms and the resource system be tied to hunting and killing a colossal platoon killing monster.

-That- is what the crossbow should be for.

Btw, I'm joking

I would say some creeps would be interesting if they were more controlled, and not simply random encounter challenge obstacles that we occasionally see meandering around one of the continents. Like: Alien Invasion event, that would be interesting.

[VGCS]

Oh good lord.... The Infils in my outfit would be fighting over which one of us gets to 'Jungle'.

This might actually be worse than his ORBITAL STRIKES idea if it was done wrong.
The scary thing is this is exactly the kind of bumbling this man's always done which defies all things good and right in this world and then turns into a huge success for them like Everquest did. It literally takes them a COLOSSAL DISASTER like Galaxies N.G.E. patch to ever completely sink a game with their derptacular design posturing. Did their Pay to Win @ PVE ='s also dominating in PVP, in DCUO sink that game like it should have? Nope... Did releasing PS2 way before it was optimized and stable doom it? Nope not even close.

the ONLY situation this would ever be fair in is if your base is overrun by these outfits with obvious Aimbotters and the PvE army you summon also Aimbots just as blatantly as they are. I'm not even sure how you'd have the server control that? ...I guess have it keep track of those player's burst-fire accuracy and then make he Bots automatically adjust their own botting Accuracy according to the person they're shooting at??

[Chaff]

.
I LOVE how they're talking about ADDING more new things into the game, but it's still so damn Buggy ....... howza bout shuttin' yer Pie Holes until the game works well 95% (at least) of the time.
.

[Nur]

I'm OK with NPC in the case they are NOT giving any XP and just annoy the three factions.

So for example sudden Alien attack



In my opinion they will never implement this, at least in the first years.

Simply there are other priorities

If Aliens are part of the loacl Auraxis fauna and does not give Xps, then could be interesting to be attacked by an Alien ship sometimes or be surprised by an Alien while walking in the desert.

Like local dangerous fauna.

[Booface]

It reminds me of the PvP oriented MMORPG Shadowbane (I think it was called Shadowbane). Anyway, in this game, your guilds (basically outfits) could claim stakes of land and build castles there to gather resources. You designed your castle in every aspect: wall placement, critical structures, etcetera.

If another guild wanted to sack your castle, one strategy they would often undertake is of course to log on and hit it during off-peak hours. Sacking a castle took a long time in this game, because you had to set up siege equipment, breach the walls, and get your guildmates inside, so it wasn't as bad as it sounds. But it was still bad, because by the time you logged on in the morning, you were already at a disadvantage and maybe had lost a lot of valuable buildings.

Anyway, the strategy to counter this was to build guard houses around your castle. These would spawn NPC guards, whose competency was determined by the resources you could pour into them. They weren't going to repel an attack, but they could bog it down. That way, unless you were totally decimated by a much larger guild, your castle could usually survive with fewer defenders during the morning long enough for you to rescue it when your guys logged on after the workday was over.

The only reason it was really desirable, though, was because the castles were player-created and player-owned. We wanted a way to protect our stuff we worked (well, gamed) for while we were logged off.

In a game like PS2, where bases turn over in a matter of minutes and there are few long-term consequences for losing a facility, this kind of mechanic would probably just be really annoying.

On the other hand, if down the road we can create our own permanent facilities and gather outfit-specific resources and benefits from them, then this is something that I think a lot of players might want.

[Whiteagle]

It reminds me of the PvP oriented MMORPG Shadowbane (I think it was called Shadowbane). Anyway, in this game, your guilds (basically outfits) could claim stakes of land and build castles there to gather resources. You designed your castle in every aspect: wall placement, critical structures, etcetera.

...

Anyway, the strategy to counter this was to build guard houses around your castle. These would spawn NPC guards, whose competency was determined by the resources you could pour into them. They weren't going to repel an attack, but they could bog it down. That way, unless you were totally decimated by a much larger guild, your castle could usually survive with fewer defenders during the morning long enough for you to rescue it when your guys logged on after the workday was over.

The only reason it was really desirable, though, was because the castles were player-created and player-owned. We wanted a way to protect our stuff we worked (well, gamed) for while we were logged off.

...

On the other hand, if down the road we can create our own permanent facilities and gather outfit-specific resources and benefits from them, then this is something that I think a lot of players might want.
Indeed, but I doubt it would be actual moving NPC Guards and more like the Turrets from the Original Planetside.
Much less work involved and it uses Entities that should already be there.

[Sardus]

Shooting NPC players will never be the same as real players. It totally spoils it for me. Maybe in a game like everquest I'd expect to see that, with commanders sending npc armies, but I don't feel that it has a place in a shooter, because AI is just dumb at shooters.

[ezjumper]

I going to have to vote no as well. I love planetside because I am playing against other people, not tracking predictable paths.

That said if you are going to include some AI elements to the game, make them AI base defenses/ turrets that are attached to a generator or console that can be disabled.

that would be something I could get behind.

[Phantom Pain]

I'd love to see the Vanu aliens and see if my concepts are close :

http://anam.tilt180.com/vanu-alien-3d/
I also would prefer to see Vanu (aliens) as hostile NPCs in the game, but they shouldn't be biased to any faction, like VS.
I was thinking that on a random day every week, the vanu would invade a continent and claim all (or most of it) to themselves. Then players would be forced to fight for territories that were taken by Vanu. Of course NPCs would be guarding the territories, the amount guarding would depend on the place (ex. a small outpost wouldn't have more NPCs than a biolab). I'd prefer if the all player factions would be considered friendlies in Vanu zones only so that people wouldn't shoot you if you are fighting for the same cause as the other factions in the Vanu territories. Once all the facilities are owned by the player factions, the Vanu just leave.

[Zadexin]

I'm not really for completely separate NPC factions.

BUT I would like to see bases get some kind of NPC guards that get stationed there that are friendly to the faction that owns it. Put them on a very long respawn, something like 10-20 minutes so they don't pop back up while capping but are there just to discourage solo ninja caps. Also they would give you some token resistance because how many times does your army pull up to a COMPLETELY EMPTY base and just gut it before the enemy even start spawning. It would be nice to have something to shoot even if there was next to no pop on a continent.