SmedBlog: eSports Support

[Hamma]

I'm doing targeted feedback threads on all items from Smed's Blog (http://john-smedley.livejournal.com/2412.html). This one is for eSports Support.

Esports support - we plan on doing this pretty soon after launch. We plan on making this a big big thing and putting a lot of our resources behind it.


Thoughts!

[IHateMMOs]

How would Planetside 2 work in eSports?

[JPalmer]

How would Planetside 2 work in eSports?

Create Server

Set map limit to a staging area and a base.

Get two Outfits(Have like a 100 player limit per side, maybe a resource limit too)

First to 3 wins?

[IHateMMOs]

Create Server

Set map limit to a staging area and a base.

Get two Outfits(Have like a 100 player limit, maybe a resource limit too)

Best of 4?

Oooooooooh. Kinky.

[ringring]

Not my thing....

[JPalmer]

I like the idea. Gives the Outfits a chance to fight each other with their best players with no interference from zerg. Plus people would remember the names of the Outfits and big rivalries would be a hit.

Could potentially be awesome.

[SpottyGekko]

Yes, I think the eSports idea is a good one.

As long as it is an add-on to the main game, like having Battleground islands where the eSports matches can be played.

It can potentially raise the exposure of PS2, and if it ends up being successful, it is very effective free advertising for the game.

Outfits that want to compete in the eSports matches can practice tactics and co-ordination while playing in the main game as well, so the presence of eSports in the game does not have to mean that those who want to play matches are never going to play in the "main game". There's room for cross-over.

[Hamma]

How would Planetside 2 work in eSports?

Guess this is the real question really. How would it work? To me this reads as if they are adding tools for e-sports for broadcasters..

[AnamNantom]

Create Server

Set map limit to a staging area and a base.

Get two Outfits(Have like a 100 player limit per side, maybe a resource limit too)

First to 3 wins?

Not sure I like this.

Seriously? Only if you put these e-sports things on the same server and didn't prevent people from coming in to smash things up :evil:

I want it all to be seamless. Now, maybe, if you kept it within the limits of an empire... for example, Terran Republic sponsors a futuristic version of football or "laser tag" and people can tune in to watch same-empire sports teams duke it out. Maybe then.

NOT if it's TR vs NC vs VS. THAT breaks the story. That makes it seem like all three factions are friendly and merely wanting to have friendly competition.

[Mox]

That is nothing i want to see in PS2.

[Goku]

That is nothing i want to see in PS2.

Don't participate then? There is nothing wrong with having competition like this at all.

[Comet]

I don't care for eSports. I find that if you try to add eSports into a game not originally designed around it that it effects the core game too much. Ala WoW arena.

[XxAxMayxX]

Im not sure about this I love the idea of esports but unless they let all of us use the tools for it i don't really want any of it.

[Rat]

I don't care for eSports. I find that if you try to add eSports into a game not originally designed around it that it effects the core game too much. Ala WoW arena.

I dont see how WOW areana affected the core game. I didnt do much arena, but I didnt give a crap that others were into it.

[Tatwi]

I can't help but feel that E-Sports nothing more than dollars and man hours thrown at a niche of the gaming world that majority of gamers couldn't really give a shit about. It makes me sad that time will be taken away from actual Planetside 2 game development for this. If SOE wants to sub contract a marketing company to handle E-Sports, that's fine, because they would have to meet their metrics and make it work within the frame work of the game itself. But spending man hours on it, for the five or six new players it might bring to the game, it's a complete waste.

I dont see how WOW areana affected the core game. I didnt do much arena, but I didnt give a crap that others were into it.

The sad reality that Blizzard constantly screwed up how classes functioned in PvE and normal PvP for the sake of making them work better in arenas is what pissed off most WoW players about E-Sports in WoW. It's not treated like a second game and it has had a negative impact on game as a result. Want details? Google it.

[p0intman]

fucking terrible idea.
(Fire wisenhunt)

[p0intman]

It's like getting your wife pregnant, messing up her hot figure.. fucking terrible
idea but it's good for the marriage. Without satisfying the shoutcasters, MLGs,
Youtubers, Twitch streamers, and wannabe pros PS2 will end in divorce.

Does not change that it is a fucking terrible idea. Remember how I said wisenhunt or whatever his name is was a step to doing this? Yeah. I TOLD YOU SO. Imo, fire wisenhunt and can this idea.

[Neurotoxin]

I'm looking forward to eSports in PS2. I suggested fantasy outfit leagues a while back, where players and their in-game achievements are the things that determine the success of the fantasy league "outfit leader" over time.

This also lets participants weigh the odds, trying to support the players in their fantasy outfit so they perform better, getting to know them to know when they are active and when they'll be out for a bit, etc. In this way, the fantasy leagues will be able to let fantasy outfit leaders aid their players and really get to know them, which I think is really neat, though I can see how it could also get kinda creepy... but getting 10000 SC because you are on someone's fantasy team and they wanna help you out isn't a bad thing.

The coolest thing is that fantasy leagues don't have to be SOE-run. With all the stats and metrics available on each character, players and companies will presumably be able to design these as outside third-party leagues.

[super pretendo]

Are you fucking kidding me?

This really dashes my hopes about the game. Hopefully such kiddie trash will be kept far and away from the fun persistent game itself. But I predict the game will eventually be balanced around it due to the asymmetric exposure that compartment of the game gets, and then PlanetSide will slowly die due to being just another generic esport shooter, and no longer tapping the MMOFPS niche that it currently has a monopoly on.

Why do developers consistently fuck up like this lately? Instead of being innovative and creating new things, they just copy what has good numbers ad nauseam and add a gimmick.

We don't need another CoD or battlefield; we already have those games if we want that kind of experience. We need a planetside.

[RoninOni]

I dont see how WOW areana affected the core game. I didnt do much arena, but I didnt give a crap that others were into it.

Causes balancing around the Arena, cause the eSport players demand it, when the game is supposed to be balanced around so SO SO much more.

PS2 really doesn't feel like an eSports game to me, and I mean that as the HIGHEST compliment.

Eff eSports. Seriously. Burn them all with fire.

They're a cancer to actual gaming.

[adddemon]

arena fights would be hilarious, it would be entire teams of just maxes and medics.

[Boone]

I could care less about esports. It's usually a bunch of Koreans huddled up in a room anyway.

[NewSith]

I'll be careful with my statements, so:
I'm all for it, but I think having such a thing depends on the success of the game, and if that's ever in the plan, it should be added TO THE PLAN after some time post-release.

[Harasus]

Having some kind of limited area for smaller combat could work for training and eSports... But I fear it would separate the community. The only reason I would use this would be to train flying, commando strikes, jetpacking around, aiming, bullet drop, teamwork and that kind of stuff before actually joining a server.

I am not sure what they are planning, but they should be careful with this.

[RoninOni]

Having special, short term for the event, small private servers of restricted zones.....

I could see that.

I just don't want anything eSports to affect the core PS2 game in any way, shape, or form.

If they require any re balancing of units or weapons or bases or anything at all, it should done specifically and only for those small servers

[Baneblade]

There were eSports in PS1, players would go duel each other on a quiet part of a continent all the time. It just didn't have any official support.

[Bruttal]

Yeah I would like to have some Esports stuff in planetside. Pretty sure planetside would be on a different level then most esport games

[super pretendo]

The problem is that if it has support it will crowd out the scope and perception of the game. The fun, emergent and dynamic aspects of the unplanned war (read: the entire game of planetside) will not get the public perception that the run-of-the-mill FPS crap will get. So players will not come for the main planetside game, but for the CoD of Battlefield cut.

EVE online is known for people watching the amazing videos of its battles, and even non players reading about the politics, wars and changes in territory. That's how I came to that game. If I saw EVE videos that were all generic arena battles with wannabe announcers talking over it, I would just close the video and never think about the game again.
GoonSwarm Titan Kill June 2007 - YouTube

It's disenchanting to see such people in this thread that lack this kind of basic scrutiny.

And for anyone thinking that PS2 needs to clone CoD to compete with it, you're silly. PS2 doesn't need to compete with CoD, it just needs to innovate out of the stale CoD formula.

[JPalmer]

fucking terrible idea.
(Fire wisenhunt)

How?

It will not change vanilla at all.

And it would pull more players in to the game. How do you think all these Outfits will practice Planetside 2? Mo' players. Better game.

[super pretendo]

Read my above post. Especially as a F2P game, XXSUPER MOUNTAIN DEW 420XX esports coverage will crowd out user made games of actually epic emergent battles occurring. The game's focus will creep away following the shift in the perception of planetside.

Maybe SOE having an MMOFPS monopoly is a bad thing, since they may hilariously squander it

[brighthand]

The problem is that if it has support it will crowd out the scope and perception of the game. The fun, emergent and dynamic aspects of the unplanned war (read: the entire game of planetside) will not get the public perception that the run-of-the-mill FPS crap will get. So players will not come for the main planetside game, but for the CoD of Battlefield cut.

EVE online is known for people watching the amazing videos of its battles, and even non players reading about the politics, wars and changes in territory. That's how I came to that game. If I saw EVE videos that were all generic arena battles with wannabe announcers talking over it, I would just close the video and never think about the game again.

It's disenchanting to see such people in this thread that lack this kind of basic scrutiny.

And for anyone thinking that PS2 needs to clone CoD to compete with it, you're silly. PS2 doesn't need to compete with CoD, it just needs to innovate out of the stale CoD formula.

I agree with you fully; that is what killed bf3: the need to compete with COD and other games that are NOTHING like it.

To supporters of this idea I say: Esports should be kept far away from this game. You have to look further down the road and see what decisions can lead to. Imagine this hypothetical situation:

You play HA and you appreciate the heft of your rocket launcher and its usfulness running into huge battles. You fire and it has a nice AoE that at least reduces alot of HP of surrounding soldiers on impact (have no idea what its actual AoE is, I am just saying it does x damage for this example). Well now that esports is big in planetside, the devs found from feedback from avid eports twitch "pros", fresh out of the COD circuit, that the AoE of your beloved rocket launcher is too wide and great, and makes it overpowered in an the eports setting- so they NERF it. Now you and your boys are rolling arround Auraxis with ROMAN CANDLES for launchers, pegging each other like a bunch of highschoolers in the back of a Walmart parking lot at 2:00am. This is one of the many 'positive changes' that the armies from all three factions are dealing with after the latest patch and it sucks- but thats OK, because the esports guys are having a BLAST in their inky dinky 8 v 8 arenas!

Even if they created seperate servers wtih seperate balancing, they might still have to allocate valuable development time that could have gone into making epic space battle contintents, or floating mountains or advanced command tools or something. Think about the losses.

[Syphus]

Please don't link our Titan kill in your whine.

[EightEightEight]

As long as the E-Sport Servers are separate from the regular game play servers and the E-Sport is separate from the game I don't have an issue with it. It just gives the people that enjoy that type of thing the ability to do it. I however am not interested in that sort of thing.

[super pretendo]

Please don't like our Titan kill in your whine.

wanna talk about it?

[Stardouser]

Even if they created seperate servers wtih seperate balancing, they might still have to allocate valuable development time that could have gone into making epic space battle contintents, or floating mountains or advanced command tools or something. Thank about the losses.

I seriously doubt that the development time will take away from other things and in any event, it's not for us to say about development capacity. And we still don't know what they're planning for this, but if e-sports follows the e-sports seen in other games, they're more likely to turn vehicles off for e-sports.

As for rocket launchers, there are people who want them nerfed against infantry independent of e-sports. I'm not one of them, but the point is, you have to deal with them before worrying about the damage e-sports could do.

[Duskguy]

dont see how this would work between factions. would be like they are friends just competing.

if it were interfaction, would be like as someone said a sport thing between outfits.

my idea of it would be:
-an announcement for a competition forms, outfits sign up and after x time, applications close and battles start.
-would work like a normal tornament, 3 resource nodes and then the home spawn.
-first team to claim all three nodes for x time wins, or the game ends with whoever holds the majority of nodes after x amount of time. or it could work like Battlefield's ticket system based off of spawning and ticket bleed.
-the winning team moves to the next teir and battles the winning team of another pair.
on it goes till there is one winner.
-then like the olympics, the top team of the three factions battle in a three way fight over 7 nodes, and win based on the same conditions as the previous battles.

[super pretendo]

If there has to be vapid esports support, make it like the EVE alliance tournament. Outfits can sign up for a special event that happens every so often with predetermined rules and battle space.

[RoninOni]

How?

It will not change vanilla at all.

And it would pull more players in to the game. How do you think all these Outfits will practice Planetside 2? Mo' players. Better game.

The issue will be if a separate planet side is basically made that ends up drawing more people to it instead of the big battlefields they're supposed to be crowding.


If they add streaming and voice broadcast support so that streamers can showcase some famous outfits assault on a base known to be held by an enemy factions famous outfit...

then I'm all for that.

That's just free publicity for the real game.

And yes, randoms will enter the territory who just want to get in on the stream, and some will probably try and troll... but there will supposedly be moderators in game to help control true trolling (a really bad pilot I don't think needs moderation... just instruction and told to go practice where it's safe lol). and likely accounts that have a history of trolling will be banned. Sure, they may be free, but it will take cert points and resources to get the best stuff to troll with....

The more I think about segmenting planetside continents to showcase a quick battle the sicker I feel. It just doesn't feel right.

Stream support, yes, but nothing that compromises what makes planetside, planetside.

[Revanmug]

How?

It will not change vanilla at all.

And it would pull more players in to the game. How do you think all these Outfits will practice Planetside 2? Mo' players. Better game.

Depending oh what he meant by "eSport"... It CAN. There is so many possibility but if they chose the wrong one, it is just going to be awful for both side.

Saying eSport support is soo vague that I'll be waiting until more precision.

[Arcsilver]

sounds good to me, as long as it doesn't mess up the core of the game.

[super pretendo]

sounds good to me, as long as it doesn't mess up the core of the game.

But it will. New players will be generated by exposure that is strictly esports. How many hits do you think some official esports channel will get versus a chanel of community made videos of real player-driven battles throughout the world?

The lack of foresight worries me. Officially supporting esports turns this game into such a tragic malinvestment. Why spend resources on making an amazing open world if ALL MEDIA EXPOSURE will be to some cookie cutter, cancerous esport? Why are you wasting money on what an apparently obsolete playerbase cares about, when you are trying to just get a piece of the CoD pie?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. F2P model doesn't work well for esports either, but is ludicrously profitable for persistent games where players feel continuously invested in the state of the gameworld.

Why? Because esports by definition garner consistent exposure as a spectator "sport". Having a "real" planetside game, then an unrelated, planetside-style esport makes no sense. There will be asymmetric exposure between PS2, the game we are all waiting for, and PS2: Super eSports CoD Edition. There cannot possibly be a balanced potential-player perception between these two unrelated games with the same title. A community made youtube channel with videos of epic battles and emergent fun fights cannot possibly compete with an official, professional esports channel and streams. When you mention PlanetSide 2 to someone, the latter is what they will probably think of.

Splitting up the game into two unrelated games seems to be SOE's ludicrous attempt to have its fingers in both pies. It has a monopoly on the MMOFPS, and good for them, they deserve monopoly profits for innovating out of the astronomically stale and rehashed FPS genre. But now it seems they also want to follow the leader, and somehow take the game in the complete opposite direction. A direction that doesn't even work as well in the F2P model. F2P mmos are ludicrously profitable (Nexon) because players have a sense of persistence, and something being at stake. Something they buy has an effect on the continuity of a gameworld that is always there. The more the gameworld matters and the more immersive it is, the more people want to spend. Generic FPS #420 is nothing special though. But it will cause a flood of players who don't give a shit about what makes PS2 such an amazing game. And this will tip the focus in development and the balance of the game. There will never be a small, side-game of eSports that doesn't get development or media focus, and the two sections of the game live hand-in-hand, and the vision of planetside remains as if the esport part doesnt exist. Utopias don't exist. eSports exist to get as much attention and as many spectators as possible.

I just want a game that doesn't need to be compromised for a vocal minority of players that would love to see the amazing vision of the game compromised so they can have a reskinned Call of Duty, for whatever reason. If you want just another esport, why don't you go play one? it's the hot thing right now, there's a fuckton of them out there. I want PlanetSide. And it totally looks like SOE is going to make a killing, and they will because they innovated. Not because they copied.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I really don't like the idea of "Esports", personally. Sounds like something they're set on doing, or at least trying out, though. I don't see it being a good thing long term.

[Braveliltoaster]

this game gets less and less like planetside every day

[sagolsun]

Sport is fundamentally incompatible with war because war is not about sportsmanship and a fair fight. Neither is PS2.

The only way e-sports could work in PS2 is a separate server that gets wiped every match. Not sure how much that has in common with PS2.

[RSphil]

if they make separate arena style game play will make it like every other game and suck big time.

i dont think this kind of game would be good for Esports. it could be good as a program to watch maybe as in live stream but with free view cameras for the streamer. like a documentary sort of thing. good commentating by people who know what they are talking about.

i think a game of such scale that would be the only way to go. if it put into a crapy small place fighting for 1 base its the same as the rest and no reason to make people watch when they have battlefield, cod, MW ect ect to watch already. this game is different because of its scale and this is something they should not take away.

only my opinion of course and i dont watch esports anyway lol. rather play then watch

BUT i would watch it if it was like i said free view cam with commentary from knowledgeable people. it would like a war doc :)

[Phantasmio]

I really dislike the idea of eSports if it is going to end up affecting the gameplay. WoW, for example, gave the best gear out to those who played a lot of Arena matches, which effectively killed the Battlegrounds feature of WoW by making all gear earned through BGs absolutely useless. The Arena gear was essentially the best gear you could get in that game and if eSports messing up PS2 in a manner such as this, I'm completely against it. If they can avoid changing gameplay, then by all means, include it.

[sagolsun]

Seems most of the community is against e-sports. I, for one, have trouble understanding how e-sports could fit into the game.

PS2 isn't tennis. PS2 is WAR.

[Goku]

I really dislike the idea of eSports if it is going to end up affecting the gameplay. WoW, for example, gave the best gear out to those who played a lot of Arena matches, which effectively killed the Battlegrounds feature of WoW by making all gear earned through BGs absolutely useless. The Arena gear was essentially the best gear you could get in that game and if eSports messing up PS2 in a manner such as this, I'm completely against it. If they can avoid changing gameplay, then by all means, include it.

RPG is not a FPS first off. I don't see how SOE doing a eSport type of game play would change any of the weapons, armor, or implants either.

[super pretendo]

its not the "gear" that we are worried about. It's the focus of the game. If the game is split into to compartments with wildly different design philosophies, something is already very wrong.

[RoninOni]

I think the way to support "eSports" is to not treat PS2 like a sport... but like a war.

Have "war journalists" who stream to the internet. Could maybe be a special character type (ie; war journalists are a 4th faction you select who take no part in the war, they're only their for coverage)

Factions could also have their own "journalist" class but they'd still count as that faction and would have some special rules who knows...

Anyways, this way there's still that twitch.tv focused aspect, but done in a way appropriate for the type of game it is.

[super pretendo]

I agree, but that's outside of the definition of an eSport. The problem here is that there will be too many different severs for anyone to give a shit about happenings. But perhaps it could work, with big awesome battles being covered.

Anything is better than sinking into the mediocrity of the rehashed modern FPS

[Smed]

I agree, but that's outside of the definition of an eSport. The problem here is that there will be too many different severs for anyone to give a shit about happenings. But perhaps it could work, with big awesome battles being covered.

Anything is better than sinking into the mediocrity of the rehashed modern FPS

you are thinking way too narrowly IMO. How many of you watch anything on Twitch TV? I do. I don't play Starcraft II but I watch the hell out of it. It is gradually taking on a lot of the time I used to spend watching TV (which isn't a ton anyways since I spend most of my free time gaming).

Do not think of an Esport the way they exist now. Planetside 2 will not fit into that square hole. However imagine a 500 person outfit fighting another 500 person outfit with cameras posted (time delayed) at a bunch of locations around the world and spectators able to follow people around the map at various locations. Imagine really good Casters following the best players on each side (maybe it's even all 3 empires fighting). Imagine a Season where we allow outfits to register (with requirements about size, etc) and be tracked during that season on a huge number of stats.

There are 2 ways of looking at Esports. One way is literally as pure competition. Another is looking at it as really well done Television. Instead of watching Survivor wouldn't you rather watch an hour long battle casted by really good shoutcasters and follow some of the best players in the game?

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

[Inq]

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.


I did... and I still find it stupid.

Is that just me?

[Grims]

I think that sounds great smed! People will cry about things no matter how good it is.

I think you guys are taking this game to great places, keep up the good work!

[Smed]

I did... and I still find it stupid.

Is that just me?

it took me a long time. At some point it's like watching the olympics.

(oh god there is a joke I want to make right now that you can probably guess but I will be PC and not make it.)

it's cool to be able to watch amazing players while drinking.

[Roy Awesome]

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

I don't think you will find many commentators who are willing to just start talking about the game. Honestly, I'd rather play the game rather than spectate and talk over the sounds of battle, hoping people tune in and watch me.

However, instead of supporting esports, having ingame streaming options, like being able to directly pipe game output to twitch...that would be cool. I would look more to the DayZ community rather than the Starcraft community. Starcraft works because it's 15-20 minutes of fast paced action, to where DayZ is more about the story about how to get to somewhere.

I'm more than happy to stream my gameplay with a bit of delay. I don't want to commentate fights because i'd rather be playing in them.

[Smed]

I don't think you will find many commentators who are willing to just start talking about the game. Honestly, I'd rather play the game rather than spectate and talk over the sounds of battle, hoping people tune in and watch me.

However, instead of supporting esports, having ingame streaming options, like being able to directly pipe game output to twitch...that would be cool. I would look more to the DayZ community rather than the Starcraft community. Starcraft works because it's 15-20 minutes of fast paced action, to where DayZ is more about the story about how to get to somewhere.

I'm more than happy to stream my gameplay with a bit of delay. I don't want to commentate fights because i'd rather be playing in them.

I completely disagree about commentators willing to just start talking about a game. Take a look on Twitch TV at the huge assortment of games.

It's really simple - if it's interesting people will throw it up there and talk about it. If a lot of people play a game there will be good commentators that start casting. Most of them will come from the community itself. Day9 didn't start life with 1M viewers. He grew them over time because he's fun to watch.

Smed

[Roy Awesome]

I completely disagree about commentators willing to just start talking about a game. Take a look on Twitch TV at the huge assortment of games.

It's really simple - if it's interesting people will throw it up there and talk about it. If a lot of people play a game there will be good commentators that start casting. Most of them will come from the community itself. Day9 didn't start life with 1M viewers. He grew them over time because he's fun to watch.

Smed

Sure, but Day9 has something...simpler... to talk about. He can sit down and analyze a matchup, comment about very specific decision points about how things come to a conclusion. Planetside 2 is just too big for an individual to actually make that large of a difference once the fight starts. Talking about a 1v1 matchup is much easier than a 100v100 battle over a plant. Fights tend to last very long, and have many different threads leading to a conclusion that following them for one or two people is simply impossible.

Secondly, People only tend to watch commentary during matches that actually mean something. I know there are counter examples to this (Purge's dota 2 pubcasts, day9 daily), but you don't see people like MrBitter and others casting unless they have an event they are doing. What about PS2 would entice those kind of audiences (and therefore the best casters) to watch?

I'm not saying that esports isn't a great path. I would immensely prefer for you guys to support the Destiny's and SingSings of Planetside 2 rather than the Day9s and Huskys...The players that play the game and stream themselves playing. They don't have someone filling space and talking about tactics and strategy, they carry the show based on their own personality and skill in a game.

[Helwyr]

There are 2 ways of looking at Esports. One way is literally as pure competition. Another is looking at it as really well done Television. Instead of watching Survivor wouldn't you rather watch an hour long battle casted by really good shoutcasters and follow some of the best players in the game?

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.


Really good television is Game of Thrones and Breaking Bad, not season 345566 of some reality TV show. But, your analogy hits home for me nonetheless, just not in the way you intended. You're trying to sell us on the reality TV quality type entertainment in the form of esports. What I, and I think many others want is something a little bit more in depth than that. I love getting invested in my chosen Faction, being immersed in the game world, and neck deep in action and drama.

I'm sure there will be some that will love this esport stuff, I'm not among them. If you can do it without impacting the real game in any way then those in the community that share my view won't have anything to complain about.

[Anabuki]

If there has to be vapid esports support, make it like the EVE alliance tournament. Outfits can sign up for a special event that happens every so often with predetermined rules and battle space.

This seems to be the best way to go about it. That way, outfits have to come up with their own tactics and strategies based off the current available equipment/stats/balancing, instead of the game changing to revolve around them. Having it only happen once a year also prevents the bitching and moaning when it comes to 'pub' vs competitive balance, but hopefully with good beta testing and initial balancing it should be kept to a minimum. Of course factions/servers can also hold their own smaller scale unofficial outfit tournaments, but the developers wont have to change the game around unofficial competitions.

I think EVE is one of the games the devs should look to in regards to e-Sports, even though it's not a particularly big thing for the average EVE player. As far as I know we'll be most happy with e-Sports as an option for those that want to participate, not as something we have an obligation to participate in if we want the best experience of the game.

[Smed]

Sure, but Day9 has something...permanent... to talk about. He can sit down and analyze a matchup, comment about very specific decision points about how things come to a conclusion. Planetside 2 is just too big for an individual to actually make that large of a difference once the fight starts. Talking about a 1v1 matchup is much easier than a 100v100 battle over a plant.

Secondly, People only tend to watch commentary during matches that actually mean something. I know there are counter examples to this (Purge's dota 2 pubcasts, day9 daily), but you don't see people like MrBitter and others casting unless they have an event they are doing. What about PS2 would entice those kind of audiences (and therefore the best casters) to watch?

I'm not saying that esports isn't a great path. I would immensely prefer for you guys to support the Destiny's and SingSings of Planetside 2 rather than the Day9s and Huskys...The players that play the game and stream themselves playing. They don't have someone filling space and talking about tactics and strategy, they carry the show based on their own personality and skill in a game.

That's true for guys like Day9. My point is if the community gets large enough someone will likely come from within the community itself and throw up a weekly or a nightly cast where they just play the game and say interesting or funny stuff while doing it. Slowly they build an audience.

I've been watching stuff like Day Z as well. All that is completely random.. but there are some pretty decent commentators.

We're going to find out if I'm right soon enough. The tech is nearly done and when we pop the NDA we'll allow people to stream

[RoninOni]

We're going to find out if I'm right soon enough. The tech is nearly done and when we pop the NDA we'll allow people to stream

:jawdrop:

I actually already had an idea I wanted to try that would have needed 3rd party streaming...

but this...

this could be perfect.

[super pretendo]

you are thinking way too narrowly IMO. How many of you watch anything on Twitch TV? I do. I don't play Starcraft II but I watch the hell out of it. It is gradually taking on a lot of the time I used to spend watching TV (which isn't a ton anyways since I spend most of my free time gaming).

Do not think of an Esport the way they exist now. Planetside 2 will not fit into that square hole. However imagine a 500 person outfit fighting another 500 person outfit with cameras posted (time delayed) at a bunch of locations around the world and spectators able to follow people around the map at various locations. Imagine really good Casters following the best players on each side (maybe it's even all 3 empires fighting). Imagine a Season where we allow outfits to register (with requirements about size, etc) and be tracked during that season on a huge number of stats.

There are 2 ways of looking at Esports. One way is literally as pure competition. Another is looking at it as really well done Television. Instead of watching Survivor wouldn't you rather watch an hour long battle casted by really good shoutcasters and follow some of the best players in the game?

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

Thanks for responding, cleared up my worries a bit. So what you're saying is that the PS2 esport thing is that there will be supported mechanisms to watch (presumably delayed) streams of well known actiony outfits? That sounds good, but I think calling it an esport mischaracterizes it. And how can outfits have a "balanced" 500v500 fight? In the end balance isn't fun in this sort of game, the fact that anything can happen makes it fun.

[Roy Awesome]

That's true for guys like Day9. My point is if the community gets large enough someone will likely come from within the community itself and throw up a weekly or a nightly cast where they just play the game and say interesting or funny stuff while doing it. Slowly they build an audience.

I've been watching stuff like Day Z as well. All that is completely random.. but there are some pretty decent commentators.

We're going to find out if I'm right soon enough. The tech is nearly done and when we pop the NDA we'll allow people to stream

Yes, please. I'm looking forward to streaming from the get-go (i streamed quite a bit of PS1), so having support in game is something I really look forward to.

[NePaS]

I for one would have no problems or worries watching a battle between 500-1000 guys on twitch,just like going to the movies for a war film(except,that you have been one of these poor saps yourself,so you kinda relate,maybe)!

[Hamma]

I will totally stream PlanetSide 2 and talk about it. I'll be doing it with capture cards and our badass AGN setup though :)

[AnamNantom]

So the e-sports idea is really just giving us the tools to do this? That's cool. I just don't want to feel like I'm on a gameshow. That's for BulletRun, not Planetside, where it's a real battle for real reasons. Call me an immersion freak, call me a roleplaying lore hound, but, I love story and influencing that story with my made fps skills, etc.

Ok, so here's an idea... injected media. Reporters (streamers) running about, getting the latest scoop on certain continents. It would be funny if these guys were shot at because they wouldn't keep their mouths shut.

I will totally stream PlanetSide 2 and talk about it. I'll be doing it with capture cards and our badass AGN setup though :)

Hi Hamma!

[Smed]

Thanks for responding, cleared up my worries a bit. So what you're saying is that the PS2 esport thing is that there will be supported mechanisms to watch (presumably delayed) streams of well known actiony outfits? That sounds good, but I think calling it an esport mischaracterizes it. And how can outfits have a "balanced" 500v500 fight? In the end balance isn't fun in this sort of game, the fact that anything can happen makes it fun.

hmm. I think you're focusing too much on what esports is today. Look at it like this - is Survivor a sport? I would argue that it is. It's not football but it's now a national sport for us. It has seasons and everything. I think the Bachelor is an esport too. There are winners (1 guy, 20 girls. I'll call the guy the winner) We need to make Planetside 2's esport something uniquely cool for Planetside 2 that plays to it's strengths.

So the e-sports idea is really just giving us the tools to do this? That's cool. I just don't want to feel like I'm on a gameshow. That's for BulletRun, not Planetside, where it's a real battle for real reasons. Call me an immersion freak, call me a roleplaying lore hound, but, I love story and influencing that story with my made fps skills, etc.

Ok, so here's an idea... injected media. Reporters (streamers) running about, getting the latest scoop on certain continents. It would be funny if these guys were shot at because they wouldn't keep their mouths shut.



Hi Hamma!

not at all. The tools we will give will be about shoutcasting. We are serious about making an actual sport.

[RoninOni]

So the e-sports idea is really just giving us the tools to do this? That's cool. I just don't want to feel like I'm on a gameshow. That's for BulletRun, not Planetside, where it's a real battle for real reasons. Call me an immersion freak, call me a roleplaying lore hound, but, I love story and influencing that story with my made fps skills, etc.

Ok, so here's an idea... injected media. Reporters (streamers) running about, getting the latest scoop on certain continents. It would be funny if these guys were shot at because they wouldn't keep their mouths shut.



Hi Hamma!

Like I said, I think the best approach to PS2 streams would be as war journalism rather than sports coverage.

Which in of itself can take many shapes... following a platoon of soldiers around... covering the big battles.... recording the whacky things soldiers do when board :lol: w/e it's up to the players and the streamers really.

I could see *maybe* instanced battles for big outfits...

but more of an event thing than a game mode.... those players should usually be playing the game, and occasionally going off to prove their mettle... not the other way around :|

[AnamNantom]

hmm. I think you're focusing too much on what esports is today. Look at it like this - is Survivor a sport? I would argue that it is. It's not football but it's now a national sport for us. It has seasons and everything. I think the Bachelor is an esport too. There are winners (1 guy, 20 girls. I'll call the guy the winner) We need to make Planetside 2's esport something uniquely cool for Planetside 2 that plays to it's strengths.



not at all. The tools we will give will be about shoutcasting. We are serious about making an actual sport.


I do enjoy watching people play games, especially when I'm not able to at that point. Yes, I subscribe to twitch.tv. So, the e-sports part is just the "meta game" of watching people and maybe betting on certain outcomes of their battles?

You said "shoutcasting", is that actually using ShoutCast/IceCast streaming?

[Smed]

I do enjoy watching people play games, especially when I'm not able to at that point. Yes, I subscribe to twitch.tv. So, the e-sports part is just the "meta game" of watching people and maybe betting on certain outcomes of their battles?

You said "shoutcasting", is that actually using ShoutCast/IceCast streaming?

I hear it called shoutcasting, casting and commentating.

[Tatwi]

I completely disagree about commentators willing to just start talking about a game. Take a look on Twitch TV at the huge assortment of games.

It's really simple - if it's interesting people will throw it up there and talk about it. If a lot of people play a game there will be good commentators that start casting. Most of them will come from the community itself. Day9 didn't start life with 1M viewers. He grew them over time because he's fun to watch.

Smed

Maybe I should start "shoutcasting" Pox Nora! I think I'll start with a four hour session called, "Pox Nora: I have no fucking clue what this game is about!". Or maybe that will be the last thing I say after playing it for the four hours. Good Lord that game needs some kind of tutorial lol...

Seriously though, you are right about people making videos of things that are interesting. My daughter and I watched a guy on youtube make sour gummy candies out of jello one day. Hard to believe, but it did happen. So, I at least owe you the benifit of the doubt on this.

Regardless, being able to watch a stream of your Outfit mates from the tablet app, while also being able to make some drone strikes or what not, is an excellent (perhaps even innovative) extension of the game itself. That kind of thing I support completely, but I wouldn't call it "e-sports". It's not about the spectators, it's still about the players.

All that said, since my father passed away 14 years ago and I stopped watching hockey, I have since concluded that watching sports is the most boring pass time in the universe. I completely don't "get it"; why watch something when you can go have fun playing it (or something else)?. So perhaps I am not the best person to listen to when it comes to "e-sports".

Thanks for stopping by and elaborating on this though, because before you did it was certainly something that disappointed a lot of us.

[Patflute]

You guys realize that you don't have to do eSports? It's probably not going to affect the base game.

[Graywolves]

This is something I've always felt Planetside 2 had potential in and was always interested in. I've hit some dead ends with my computer for now but whether or not an eSport scene was present I intended to do some streaming of my game play.


As long as the proper research is done and the tools are provided this could really hit off. I'm personally excited to see what lies in store for the future of Planetside 2 as far as eSport goes.


As someone who would follow or participate in this I can only begin to imagine how I'd feel when I see players I've watched, admired, or even played against and learned to expect on the battlefield. We already had a similar thing going on in the original (acknowledging different friends and enemies wise) so I would expect an eSport scene to just compliment that even further.

[Smed]

Maybe I should start "shoutcasting" Pox Nora! I think I'll start with a four hour session called, "Pox Nora: I have no fucking clue what this game is about!". Or maybe that will be the last thing I say after playing it for the four hours. Good Lord that game needs some kind of tutorial lol...

Seriously though, you are right about people making videos of things that are interesting. My daughter and I watched a guy on youtube make sour gummy candies out of jello one day. Hard to believe, but it did happen. So, I at least owe you the benifit of the doubt on this.

Regardless, being able to watch a stream of your Outfit mates from the tablet app, while also being able to make some drone strikes or what not, is an excellent (perhaps even innovative) extension of the game itself. That kind of thing I support completely, but I wouldn't call it "e-sports". It's not about the spectators, it's still about the players.

All that said, since my father passed away 14 years ago and I stopped watching hockey, I have since concluded that watching sports is the most boring pass time in the universe. I completely don't "get it"; why watch something when you can go have fun playing it (or something else)?. So perhaps I am not the best person to listen to when it comes to "e-sports".

Thanks for stopping by and elaborating on this though, because before you did it was certainly something that disappointed a lot of us.

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

[RoninOni]

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed


http://forum.idle-games.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2349&d=1343671122

Please don't stop sharing ideas :D

Love for the chance to discuss these kinds of things before they get implemented.

Kinda the whole point of community interaction :D

Not enough studios do it.

[Graywolves]

I enjoy discussing with the Devs when I am able, it makes me feel like I'm part of the team. It makes Planetside2 something even more personal for the player as well.

[Tatwi]

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

I do apologize. I think I (and likely many others) have just been jaded by other companies, namely Blizzard, who roll out betas and beta forums and then proceed to ignore player feed back completely on top level design concepts. It's no fun to read thousands of post about how some NGE level change to WoW will make the game unfun for people and see Blizzard steam on ahead, because Blizzard knows best. This has happened to me in the Wrath of the Lich King beta, Diablo III beta, and the Mists of Pandaria beta. The bottom line is, Blizzard does whatever Blizzard wants to do, so if you've heard about something changing, it's going to change. Period. :(


Again, please pardon me for painting SOE with that same brush, because I should know better. I spent a lot of time on SWG forums and I know that SOE put so many of our suggestions into that game before the end (even some of my own). We were well taken care once the kinks were worked out.

I trust you. And now, I also understand where you are coming from. I'll keep these things in mind in the future.

Ps. Pox Nora... lol I actually did play for a couple hours one time and it didn't make any sense to me at all. I figured it would have a tutorial like the SWG/LoN TCG, but I couldn't find one and I was laawwsst! :)

[IceyCold]

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

I'm honestly damn glad you made this post. This is something that NEEDED to be said.

People need to start calming down and stop acting like every single idea tossed out by the development team is the end of the world. Every time something is even talked about being added to the game there are several people who scream "SOE IS FUCKING US AGAIN!!!" "NGE FOR PLANETSIDE!!!" (obviously a bit exaggerated but the point is the same).

This whole community-developer interaction isn't going to work if the community acts like spoiled brats; and I am glad that most of our community does seem able to simply give an opinion without crying like children. But we need to work on being more open to ideas instead of just shutting them out.

On the other hand Smed you have to understand a part of this is fear that Planetside 2 will be turned into something those of us who loved the first so much do not want it to be; and mistakes have been made before with the first Planetside. Many people are still very cautious when Developers promise stuff due to so many times being burned, and not just by SOE but many recent games.

This whole "Developers not just looking at customers as just dollar signs" thing is going to take some time to build; although the Planetside 2 dev team has done a great job so far from my experience.

Cheers.

[RoninOni]

Blizzard used to be one of my favorite devs too D:

Good old days of Warcraft 2, Diablo (1&2, but I was mostly around for 1), and Starcraft.

[Anabuki]

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

I think this should have its own locked thread and stickied, along with all the SmedBlog threads as stickies but not locked. It'd encourage positive feedback.

[Stardouser]

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

In general, if we have to vote with our pocketbooks, it means that it's already too late - by the time it's time to spend money, you're locked into whatever feature is in question. It's better to focus on the feedback part you were talking about to avoid the voting with your pocketbook part.

To that end, a lot of the "disappointment" over e-sports is the tinfoil-hat argument "community splitting", people think that because you do something that provides options like that, the main servers won't be populated. If you can smite those people with arguments that show they're wrong, the way will be clear. Let it fester(by ignoring such concerns), however, and it will plague you until the product itself proves them wrong, but that will leave a bad impression from now until whenever that is.

[AnamNantom]

http://forum.idle-games.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2349&d=1343671122

Please don't stop sharing ideas :D

Love for the chance to discuss these kinds of things before they get implemented.

Kinda the whole point of community interaction :D

Not enough studios do it.

Ditto!

Watch what T-Ray says at 3:50:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvoaHWsO34c

[Slide Surveyor]

Yes, I think the eSports idea is a good one.
What the hell are you smoking?!?

[Tatwi]

December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

Did anyone else not notice this? I mean, I read it when I first replied, but I don't think it quite sunk in, because I felt bad that the one thing I wrote here that Smed replied to was something (unintentionally) negative.

Is this for reals, Smed or are you pulling our legs? Not sure what to think, because the timing seems reasonable, despite that being the day after the end of the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon). I was always a little too gullible when growing up, so yeah... :lol:

[super pretendo]

First official reveal?

[Grims]

I think he was messing with you lol

[Anabuki]

I think we should know better by now than to trust dates that are thrown out for the sake of it :groovy:

[Bittermen]

I seem to be hooked on Tribes and Day Z twitch casts... The Tribes casts made me a better player and the Day Z casts made me buy the mod.


This is going to be big. I like the idea of watching a massive battle unfold from different angles on twitch. Especially like the one I was involved in today.

[Smed]

Did anyone else not notice this? I mean, I read it when I first replied, but I don't think it quite sunk in, because I felt bad that the one thing I wrote here that Smed replied to was something (unintentionally) negative.

Is this for reals, Smed or are you pulling our legs? Not sure what to think, because the timing seems reasonable, despite that being the day after the end of the world (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon). I was always a little too gullible when growing up, so yeah... :lol:

Just a joke.

I seem to be hooked on Tribes and Day Z twitch casts... The Tribes casts made me a better player and the Day Z casts made me buy the mod.


This is going to be big. I like the idea of watching a massive battle unfold from different angles on twitch. Especially like the one I was involved in today.

same on buying the mod. That has a lot of promise. I'm a big Zombie / Vampire / end of the world by plague guy

In general, if we have to vote with our pocketbooks, it means that it's already too late - by the time it's time to spend money, you're locked into whatever feature is in question. It's better to focus on the feedback part you were talking about to avoid the voting with your pocketbook part.

To that end, a lot of the "disappointment" over e-sports is the tinfoil-hat argument "community splitting", people think that because you do something that provides options like that, the main servers won't be populated. If you can smite those people with arguments that show they're wrong, the way will be clear. Let it fester(by ignoring such concerns), however, and it will plague you until the product itself proves them wrong, but that will leave a bad impression from now until whenever that is.

understood. the point I was trying to make earlier was we're talking about ideas that may or may not go into a video game. It's just a discussion. Nothing imminent was happening. I was merely throwing ideas out. I feel like people need to embrace that kind of discussion as merely a hypothetical and contribute ideas and/or blow the ideas apart because they suck. Or insert snarky comments. any of which are good by me.

[Malorn]

I think differently about this now.

[Ruffdog]

You're much better off spending those dollars on marketing and making the Massive Epic Planetside experience better instead of making PlanetSide 2 into something it's not.

My thoughts too. I'd much prefer seeing the 2000 player ceiling raised, more conts per server, more servers overall.

If e-sports happens, it happens. Personally speaking with very little free time, I will be spending it shooting, not watching.

[Helwyr]

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?


Well we like so much of what we have seen and heard for PS2. You can only disappoint when the expectation is for something good. Pretty much everything we've heard until recently about PS2 has been awesome, and then all of sudden it's esports and NPCs/PvE, I really thought it was a troll at first. Combine the two together and it has a lot of us scratching our heads thinking wtf is going on?

[Tzitzimitl]

Smed I believe a concern that has been implied but not been discussed as much is balance. The reason I bring this up is that in game like this where the scale of battles can vary in size, balance that is mainly focused on esports size battles can have ranging effects.

To give an example: A liberator could potentially be considered OP in battle that is small(roughly 50vs50) as there would not be as much AA/enemy aircraft counter it. However as soon as you bring in more people lets says, 200vs 200 it is easy to see that the liberator is not OP because of the increased amount of AA/ enemy aircraft. Also lets say these 200vs200 battles are the battles to non-esport players fight in.

Now lets say the esport battles are 50vs50. Since in those battles the liberator is OP and the balance focuses around esport size battles, it gets nerfed. Now the balance team decides that to they will nerf its hitpoints and its damage so it is balanced when it comes to 50vs50 battles. This nerf makes it balanced in 50vs50 but makes it under-powered in 200vs200. Effectively gimping a vehicle that was fine in the non-esport battles.

To sum it all up, balance will affect all players but will affect non-esport players much more than esport competitors. This is what one of the main concerns is if esports is implemented. However I would like to add the closer the esport battle sizes are to actual battle sizes the less and less this becomes a concern. Actual battles = battles that non-esport players participate in.

Now lets say you don't balance for esports. What starts to happen is that strategies/setups appear that are far superior to any other strategies/setup people can use. Pretty soon the esports arena start becoming who can the execute the most broken strategy the fastest. And these strategies only change when there is a balance change for the other players. So basically this means that in order for your esports scene to be taken seriously it must be focused on the esports battles rather than balancing for actual battles.

Again actual battles = battles that non-esport players participate in. Anyways this is an issue that i wanted to bring up when setting up your esports scene

[EVILPIG]

I know SOE is hot on eSports, but not for Planetside. No way. Let the battle for Auraxis be just that. No eSports, no stupid battledomes.

However, Bullet Run should be all about eSports. Make that a good game with Teams and it could have a pro circuit.

[sumo]

i never cared about e-sport. so the way i see it is: dont spend any resources what-so-ever on e-sport.

[GhettoPrince]

http://forum.idle-games.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=2349&d=1343671122



QFT,

[Malorn]

Reading Smed's response. If it's Television that you are going for and not the traditional ESport it may help to change the terminology you use.

Televised PS2 where outfits are tracked and watched over a period of time in the world could be quite cool and entertaining. As long as what we are watching is real PlanetSide and not some staged competition.

If what you have in mind is sort of like the Hunger Games where there's lots of cameras everywhere and you watch a battle unfold and create a cool way of watching players having fun in the game - that's awesome. Having outfits enter competitions for achieving certain things like capturing the most facilties or holding the most territory or something like that and following them over the course of a few months (season) - that could be cool.

I wouldn't call that an ESport though. I call that playing PlanetSide and having it stitched into entertainment where people could follow around outfits and players they liked who did cool and entertaining things. Yes, that would be fun to watch and be good entertainment. Id' call that PlanetSide TV, not an ESport.

[Sunrock]

I think Mr. Smedley does what he does best. Coming up with some stupid idea that will totally ruin the game. And introducing "e-sports" to this game sounds like it would be his best shot at it.

[Thomas]

I think Mr. Smedley does what he does best. Coming up with some stupid idea that will totally ruin the game. And introducing "e-sports" to this game sounds like it would be his best shot at it.

The only idea that Smedley has mentioned so far that I haven't been 100% behind is the NPC armies.

These ideas are also not Smedley's, they are the whole PS2 team's ideas with what they want to add to Planetside 2 in the future.

Don't be a rude piece of shit to Smedley.

[RoninOni]

The only idea that Smedley has mentioned so far that I haven't been 100% behind is the NPC armies.

These ideas are also not Smedley's, they are the whole PS2 team's ideas with what they want to add to Planetside 2 in the future.

Don't be a rude piece of shit to Smedley.

QFT.

It's really disheartening when you see key personnel in a project come and talk with a community and someone's just gotta spit in his face.

It's perfectly fine to disagree with the ideas... (I've stated my strong aversion to NPC combat drones repeatedly :P ) that's why they are ideas and why he's presenting them to the community. But back up your opinions with reasoning and logic and heart... not baseless insults.

You also might want to catch up on the course of the thread... because he's talking less about eSports (save perhaps some limited outfit vs outfit special events) and more about live streaming of actual planetside

[Sunrock]

The only idea that Smedley has mentioned so far that I haven't been 100% behind is the NPC armies.

These ideas are also not Smedley's, they are the whole PS2 team's ideas with what they want to add to Planetside 2 in the future.

Don't be a rude piece of shit to Smedley.

De deserves that from what he did the the NGE he came up with to SWG. Also the nerfs he did to EQ. And he will most likely continue his path of destruction.

[igster]

I have mixed feelings over this. I love e-sports... however... mainly I love games that were designed from the ground up specifically for e-sports.
There is some scope for this - I remember the outfit wars and the many outfits that took part in these still talk about them today... funnily enough mainly the ones that did well in them! *8)

If I were Smed, I'd get the feedback from some of the people involved in e-sports like @Totalbiscuit, James Harding(@follow2GD) , @djWHEAT, @robertohlen, Sundance DiGiovanni(@MLGSundance). I'm pretty sure I've heard them all say before that you should design the e-sports in from the ground up rather than simply think you can turn any game into an e-sport.

Some formats simply suit it better. Arena style play etc. But when you take a game designed for a sandbox and try to mould it into an Arena style play, you quite often end up with breaking the original game in many ways (look at the trouble caused in games like WoW, Diablo III in terms of class balancing)

[Sighpolice]

Hmmm I can see how esports works in round based games, and no doubt there would have to be some sort of "Arena" based continent for this to work.

But isn't that segregating the player base? I believe I saw a dev talking about never doing that as PS2 needs a community and people to make it work, creating two communities is effectively splitting the population? The people who would want to watch it live, would stop playing to watch it, the top players will go off to fight these battles, and who is left behind to deal with the real threats and conquer bases for their empire?

I am not saying it's a bad idea, only that it needs to be done correctly for it to work, and that is a fine line they are drawing for themselves. Good luck to them.

[Boomhowser]

don't know much about esports to be honest but from what it sounds like its not for me.

But in all honesty without knowing how its going to be implemented I cannont judge the impact on my gaming fun, For all I know it could be the greatest idea to hit planetside in the last 9 years providing of course it dosent mess with the enjoyment of the game for those who wish not to participate.

I'll answer in more detail once I know more!

[exLupo]

@Sigh: It wouldn't split the playerbase if they did it like EVE. There's groups that plan and train and even spy like bastards all while still doing their regular gaming. It's a whole separate thing that takes up a bit of a small percentage of the game's time every few months (6?) all while providing some flashy PR.

Also, your name is awesome.

[Sighpolice]

@Sigh: It wouldn't split the playerbase if they did it like EVE. There's groups that plan and train and even spy like bastards all while still doing their regular gaming. It's a whole separate thing that takes up a bit of a small percentage of the game's time every few months (6?) all while providing some flashy PR.

I guess, like I said it's a fine line to be walking. If it's done so that it's not a separate continent, and it's the first outfit to 5000 kills or some other objective every 6 months like you say, that would be pretty cool yeah. Spying could take infiltrator certs etc. but that is just wild imagination :p

Also, your name is awesome.

YEEEEAAAAAAAAHH - YouTube

[Tikuto]

a variation of PS2 eSport for Commanders:
(http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?p=621395#post621395)Supreme Commander Live Game Event: A key unique new thing that involves whole world regions and players simultaneously. A preluding regional tournament to reveal some of PlanetSide2's world's best commanders. These Supreme Commanders e.g. three (TR, NC & VS) attend the Event as V.I.Ps., and attend their live-game 'supreme commander' event competing over one continent involving and subjecting every player to their strategies, almost, as they will have special contemporary Event-related Supreme Commander abilities:

an Imperial Mothership (one each Empire through-out whole Event).
summon BFRs (limited) for home-based regular players.
an Inspirational Presence (auto-buff chain-linked friendlies).
Unique in-game Battle Suit.
summon Unique territorial buildings.
other super-amazing powers...

This 'sports' event would identify the game's popularity as well as showcase some extraordinary moments of the players and the 'supreme commander' event itself. An event to promote popularity, in-game experience for those who are destined to become ... the Supreme Commander of their Empire! And possibly even promote sales and the Fan Faire as well as attract PlanetSide2 to venues around the world, maybe! At the same time treating the whole player-base within their homes around the world with live-game Event contents! Everyone would be loving it especially your Supreme Commander!

The 'big screen' live-game client will be specially made for showcasing this Live Game Event. Camera-panning, freely moving and viewing whole continent, territorial map and Supreme Commander's unique content, actions and inventory. Commentators may be necessary.

[ThGlump]

Its stupid but esport will happen. Once PS2 is released, there will be a lot more players from other games, than PS1 ever had. And they will like esport. They are used to that style, and they would want it here too. Our negative voice will be minority and ignored.
We had something like esport in PS1 too (outfit wars) and it was stupidest idea ever, but it will happen in PS2 too. Majority of players will demand it.

[Sunrock]

Its stupid but esport will happen. Once PS2 is released, there will be a lot more players from other games, than PS1 ever had. And they will like esport. They are used to that style, and they would want it here too. Our negative voice will be minority and ignored.
We had something like esport in PS1 too (outfit wars) and it was stupidest idea ever, but it will happen in PS2 too. Majority of players will demand it.

That is a really bad argument IMO. If I play golf and then decide to pickup bowling instead. Do I start to demand that they will change the rules of bowling so it would be more like golf? No I would not. If I changed my game from golf to bowling I would do that because bowling as it was played before I started to play it was what I wanted to play. If I would have liked golf more then bowling I would have continued playing golf.

Just because there are players that never have played PS1 does not mean that PS2 should become a different game because of that.

And I think non of us here think that e-sports in it self is a bad idea. We just think that changing the game so e-sports would fit into it would ruin the entire concept of Planetside.

[SeanNewBoy]

Sure, never been dork of the week but im sure i can muster up the bad records.

[Goblin]

Hell YES to esports.

It's just a chance for smaller outfits to fight eachother without outside influences. And hopefully with some kind of reward. :)

I can't see it affecting someone who does not participate all.

Exept of course for those occasions that onle little squad of competitive players decides to play some vanilla ps2 and repeatedly mass murders your whole outfit while drinking your delicious tears.

[Infektion]

This is a HORRIBLE idea if it is constant... That being said, maybe once a month SCHEDULED daily events is OK. If this is a glorified "battlegrounds" or "scenario", then the game WILL suffer, and you can take that to the bank. Someone needs to smack Smeeds in the face.

[Electrofreak]

Anyone who plays EVE Online and watches the Alliance Tournaments should have a pretty good idea of what Esports could look like in PlanetSide. It allows competitive players an opportunity to compete in a tournament that matters (prizes and awards!), allows interested players to watch streaming matches for the sake of entertainment and self-improvement, and allows uninterested players to not give a flying fuck and not really be affected in any way.

If PS2 follows a similar route, it shouldn't be a problem.

[ThGlump]

That is a really bad argument IMO. If I play golf and then decide to pickup bowling instead. Do I start to demand that they will change the rules of bowling so it would be more like golf? No I would not. If I changed my game from golf to bowling I would do that because bowling as it was played before I started to play it was what I wanted to play. If I would have liked golf more then bowling I would have continued playing golf.

You picked sports that are far away from similar. From golf you should switch to minigolf, but its really more like going from one car racing to another car racing. something that has similar or almost same base mechanics. You can switch because you like new one better, but you will still miss something you were used to. And if enough new players will miss that too, they could change it.

[Baneblade]

you are thinking way too narrowly IMO. How many of you watch anything on Twitch TV? I do. I don't play Starcraft II but I watch the hell out of it. It is gradually taking on a lot of the time I used to spend watching TV (which isn't a ton anyways since I spend most of my free time gaming).

Do not think of an Esport the way they exist now. Planetside 2 will not fit into that square hole. However imagine a 500 person outfit fighting another 500 person outfit with cameras posted (time delayed) at a bunch of locations around the world and spectators able to follow people around the map at various locations. Imagine really good Casters following the best players on each side (maybe it's even all 3 empires fighting). Imagine a Season where we allow outfits to register (with requirements about size, etc) and be tracked during that season on a huge number of stats.

There are 2 ways of looking at Esports. One way is literally as pure competition. Another is looking at it as really well done Television. Instead of watching Survivor wouldn't you rather watch an hour long battle casted by really good shoutcasters and follow some of the best players in the game?

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

Are we mindlinked somehow? Because this sort of thing was something War Machine was planning to do when we launched our network broadcasting station.

[ThGlump]

It's just a chance for smaller outfits to fight eachother without outside influences. And hopefully with some kind of reward. :)

I can't see it affecting someone who does not participate all.

It allows competitive players an opportunity to compete in a tournament that matters (prizes and awards!), allows interested players to watch streaming matches for the sake of entertainment and self-improvement, and allows uninterested players to not give a flying fuck and not really be affected in any way.

Oh it will affect those who dont want to participate. It will affect them in the same way how PS1 died. By taking away enemies to shoot at.

[Goblin]

That is a really bad argument IMO. If I play golf and then decide to pickup bowling instead. Do I start to demand that they will change the rules of bowling so it would be more like golf? No I would not. If I changed my game from golf to bowling I would do that because bowling as it was played before I started to play it was what I wanted to play.
Actually, yours is the bad argument.

A game is a product. Sports are not. Companies want to incorporate features into new products that people want. A better comparison would be a new car model having the latest aribag technology even though some people dislike airbags. Imagine that the entire car is free and the airbag is optional to install.
Can you think of a reason someone would be offended by this? What would the reasons be for that? I can think of a couple:

1. They are afraid of the notion of the airbag, even though it's optional.
2. They are ignorant about the whole matter and don't wish to be reasonable.
3. They have an arrogant sense of entitlement.

(Moderator Note: The above is not an insult to anyone in the forums, but answers to the hypothetical scenario above it.)

I personally feel that the devs adding support for a feature that is not forced down anyones throats isn't really somthing we should be bitching about at this point.

[Electrofreak]

Ditto!

Watch what T-Ray says at 3:50:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvoaHWsO34c

Wow. That was T-Ray responding to my question 8 years ago. Yes, that skinny guy with the lame hair and scraggly goatee that yammered on endlessly starting at 2:15 into the video was me when I was 20. A lot has changed since then. Man, I'm embarrassed to watch myself! :p

Funny, this is the video I mentioned yesterday evening in a post to Smed about how I thought some ideas for PS2 were so great back in the day that became complete failures.

I could link a video of myself back in 2004 excitedly asking questions of T-Ray, CriticalMass, and Fisa about upcoming PS1 features (during PSUMA in Orlando, FL). Some of the ideas seemed so great at the time, but ultimately sent PS1 into a tailspin. Hopefully we can avoid that this time around.

TL;DR - Be gentle with us Smed... we gamers are delicate and fickle creatures. :)

Smed responded and pointed out that his presence is an indicator of how serious they are about addressing my concern:

I should point out the simple fact that I'm having this discussion before the game even launches and in my blog I specifically noted that we plan on releasing the 3 year plan and taking player feedback. We've learned our lessons.

Interesting how T-Ray's statement 8 years ago applies to this discussion. Sometimes they don't think of things during development that make sense later. And here they are, throwing ideas around with us during closed beta for the sequel, and we're jumping down their throats for it...

:doh:

[Goblin]

Oh it will affect those who dont want to participate. It will affect them in the same way how PS1 died. By taking away enemies to shoot at.
Vanu Infiltrator: I was gonna stab you dude but it looks like we're alone on the server.
TR medic: Yeah, looks like everyone is off playing that DAMNED ESPORTS!

Yup, totally sure that's gonna happen.

[Stardouser]

. Imagine that the entire car is free...

I am not disagreeing with your overall argument, but to the extent you may be making this comparison to a free car because planetside 2 is "free 2 play", free2play is really a misnomer, but even if it were truly "free 2 play", if the game doesn't turn out the way a person hopes, then it's not accurate to say that because the game is free, you didn't lose anything just because no money was spent, but instead, if the game doesn't turn out playable in accordance with a person's tastes, it's actually a huge loss to that person. That is, someone looking forward to a real MMOFPS game, if this one is unplayable for them, then they are stuck waiting and hoping another company will come along and do one. I am not aware of any other real PC MMOFPS games coming out or even in development, except for Firefall and Defiance which appear to be PvE focused.

And I'm saying the above as a general statement, not specific to PS1 vets, but obviously a PS1 vet is a lot more likely to take issue with PS2's decisions than others. And I would like to point out that as an Everquest veteran, I'm fairly certain that Everquest Next is going to put me in the same position that PS1 vets are in, that is, saying that it's only Everquest in name and theme but not in gameplay - I certainly don't look forward to that.

[ikon]

i personally would like to see counterstrike style of planetside 2 esport (except it would be on a much larger scale. thinking 48people since that's how big groups will be)

yes you can only die once but allow medic rezzing

take peoples characters to a completely new server, give them a specific target(base's good for that # of people).

have a money system similar to cs that allows purchase of vehicles,weapons, etc
give them all implants unlocked and somehow manage certs.
gain money from successful assaults/kills/vehicle kills, etc.

allow a planing stage, give them the ability to create an assault plan and a defense plan.

give a few minutes of start up time for defenses to be set up, people to be set, vehicles to be purchased.

allow the rest of the population to select the server and watch as observers ( free floating cam or wuteva)
allow platoons to customize their groups, easily know who they are by their looks

could go up to more people(96 or 144 or bigger)

[OnexBigxHebrew]

Hey smed: go for it. People here have an overwhelming need to be long winded and dramatic while overstating the effects of any number of game aspects.

Its your game, and it's just not that big of a deal. That'll be fine for those of us don't need planetside to be our life's great pursuit, and just want to play a fun video game with a cool concept. I really hope you don't take the hardcore drama from these people as how the vast majority of players would react. These are the same people who said ADS and modern graphics would ruin ps2, after all.

[Goblin]

Stardouser if you consider this (adding esport support) something that makes the game unplayable then i'm not really going to bother trying to have a sensible discussion with you.

[Crator]

I can't help but feel that E-Sports nothing more than dollars and man hours thrown at a niche of the gaming world that majority of gamers couldn't really give a shit about. It makes me sad that time will be taken away from actual Planetside 2 game development for this. If SOE wants to sub contract a marketing company to handle E-Sports, that's fine, because they would have to meet their metrics and make it work within the frame work of the game itself. But spending man hours on it, for the five or six new players it might bring to the game, it's a complete waste.



The sad reality that Blizzard constantly screwed up how classes functioned in PvE and normal PvP for the sake of making them work better in arenas is what pissed off most WoW players about E-Sports in WoW. It's not treated like a second game and it has had a negative impact on game as a result. Want details? Google it.

Well, I don't have too much knowledge about e-sports but the above quoted is pretty much how I feel about the entire thing.

EDIT: Never mind. I saw that Smed posted that's it's more about shout-casting (streaming live). I'm all for that idea!

[Stardouser]

Stardouser if you consider this (adding esport support) something that makes the game unplayable then i'm not really going to bother trying to have a sensible discussion with you.

This is why I said "I am not disagreeing with your overall argument", your argument being, of course, about e-sports. You need to pay attention to the details. I was not talking about e-sports at ALL. I was cherry-picking the comment about "free" and talking about that specifically, as a separate issue on its own, because I see a lot of people expressing the idea that because it's free 2 play, it doesn't matter whether SOE listens to feedback or not. People say "it's free 2 play, if you don't like it you didn't spend any money so it's OK". And I'm saying it's not OK, because it means the only real MMOFPS that is in development right now is a bust for a person if it turns out unplayable, whatever the reason may be.

I have defended the e-sports concept, as it happens. I'm just saying that the "it doesn't matter what they do because it's free2play" argument doesn't account for the loss of the only real MMOFPS game.

[Revanmug]

Vanu Infiltrator: I was gonna stab you dude but it looks like we're alone on the server.
TR medic: Yeah, looks like everyone is off playing that DAMNED ESPORTS!

Yup, totally sure that's gonna happen.

If we could put the people that can't read on an isolate island and leave them to die, it would be glorious.
The VIP tracker ain't there to be pretty ya know...

This is the exact reason why I said I wouldn't comment until further detail. ESport is so vague and different for people that throwing that up can mean soo many things. Smed just prove that point. For many, eSport just mean matchmaking. For others, it mean tools to make watching and analazing a possibility which is what Smed is talking about and I am fully behind that.

Who in their right mind is against more tools given to the player?!

[Arcsilver]

How would it be bad to have a tournament held on a private server every once in awhile featuring 2 outfits?? How often would an esports game take place?

Not only that, i really doubt it would affect the main game. it would play on a server away from the rest. Also, how cool would it be to send a drone strike down in the middle of one of those games...

[Grims]

Wow i cant begin to understand how some of you people can be so rude to smed! I have never seen a company that is so involved with the community!

If you dont like something that they are coming up with than post something that outlines the pro's and con's and not just wine about it. Not to mention make rude comments directed at the CEO of SOE who comes onto these forums and tries to be involved with us!

Smed keep up the great work and im happy you take the time to come onto these forums and share your ideas with us!

[Tatwi]

EDIT: Never mind. I saw that Smed posted that's it's more about shout-casting (streaming live). I'm all for that idea!

I wish he explained it that way in the first place.... wasted my 15 minutes of fame on being forum pwnd by the CEO of my favorite gaming company. :cry:

[MrMeatSticks]

aslong as anybody can get on the to do casting, i say this as i have been playing fps for the majority of my life so i know what im talking about in some cases lol

[super pretendo]

i personally would like to see counterstrike style of planetside 2 esport (except it would be on a much larger scale. thinking 48people since that's how big groups will be)

yes you can only die once but allow medic rezzing

take peoples characters to a completely new server, give them a specific target(base's good for that # of people).

have a money system similar to cs that allows purchase of vehicles,weapons, etc
give them all implants unlocked and somehow manage certs.
gain money from successful assaults/kills/vehicle kills, etc.

allow a planing stage, give them the ability to create an assault plan and a defense plan.

give a few minutes of start up time for defenses to be set up, people to be set, vehicles to be purchased.

allow the rest of the population to select the server and watch as observers ( free floating cam or wuteva)
allow platoons to customize their groups, easily know who they are by their looks

could go up to more people(96 or 144 or bigger)

You should probably play another game

[NewSith]

You should probably play another game

I really don't understand why people are so negative to the esport thingamajiig. Basically EVERY multiplayer game there is, including MMultiplayerO games has that eSport implemented or figured out one way or another.

This only makes me think that people who are against it only played PlanetSide and no other games. Hell, even, Minesweeper IS an eSport.

EDIT:
https://www.google.com/search?q=minesweeper+world+record

[Papscal]

Holy crap my worst fears coming true. Is this not the type of content they promised to keep out of the game? Meaning all the junk that has failed before in previous tittles. Smed has lost it.

[super pretendo]

I really don't understand why people are so negative to the esport thingamajiig. Basically EVERY multiplayer game there is, including MMultiplayerO games has that eSport implemented or figured out one way or another.

This only makes me think that people who are against it only played PlanetSide and no other games. Hell, even, Minesweeper IS an eSport.

EDIT:
https://www.google.com/search?q=minesweeper+world+record

Speedruns and recordings of records are not what esports are; neither are PvP videos in early wow. You can be competitive and showcase high skill outside in anything, that doesn't make it a sport or esport.

You are giving contradictory explanations to support your flawed premise; if anything can be made into an eSport by showcasing skill, then you've completely undone any argument for SOE officially supporting planetside. So if people want esports, they can, by your definition, just make community made videos showcasing their skill in the planetside game.

If this is not what eSports is, and you are wrong, then eSports being supported would in fact change the game of PlanetSide 2.

So it looks like the pro-eSports argument crumbles under any sort of scrutiny from both possible sides

[Clik]

Not every game has to be an esport. I've been into competitive gaming since the dawn of Quake and The CPL. Back in the early 2000's listening to TSN shoutcasts of Tribes and staying up until 4:00am on GTV spectating Q3 CTF matches while listening to Wheat cast them. I was a CAL admin briefly for Painkiller, I've even competed in LAN tournaments for Q3 TDM. I love esports just as much as the next guy.

Smeds idea of watching kids play Dayz being an esport is just mind blowing. To me that is just people watching someone play a video game casually like I watch my nephew color in his Sponge Bob coloring book. Sure there is a lot of grey area on what a sport or esport is but lets be honest it's a competition between people with a winner.

It just seems that these companies hear the word "esports" and watch a Day9 Daily then think they have it all figured out. It's almost as if the new buzz word is "esports". I guess that's not a bad thing however you begin to see authentic games that offer a unique experience transformed into something generic that kind of has the idea, but not fully there because of limitations just to slap the word esport on it. Everyone watched blizzard do this with World of Warcraft. Though briefly successful it ultimately failed.

Planetside is a very unique experience for an MMO. No other MMO offers a huge world of non stop, deep, rich combat, with 100% player vs. player. Be careful and don't bite off more than you can chew and end up ruining something so precious for a buzz word.

[NewSith]

Speedruns and recordings of records are not what esports are; neither are PvP videos in early wow. You can be competitive and showcase high skill outside in anything, that doesn't make it a sport or esport.

Speedruns are esports. Setting the record is a part of the sport. It has nothing to do with videos, the vids are just a proof of a beaten record.

I won't even quote the rest, because you're saying, that "my argument is invalid" while it is valid.


Almost every multiplayer game has a documented form of eSport (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_sports). PlanetSide 1's documented form is Outfit Wars.

eSport is competitive play, first and foremost. Broadcasts, money, prises and twitchskill wankership come second.

[Stardouser]

Speedruns and recordings of records are not what esports are; neither are PvP videos in early wow. You can be competitive and showcase high skill outside in anything, that doesn't make it a sport or esport.

You are giving contradictory explanations to support your flawed premise; if anything can be made into an eSport by showcasing skill, then you've completely undone any argument for SOE officially supporting planetside. So if people want esports, they can, by your definition, just make community made videos showcasing their skill in the planetside game.

If this is not what eSports is, and you are wrong, then eSports being supported would in fact change the game of PlanetSide 2.

So it looks like the pro-eSports argument crumbles under any sort of scrutiny from both possible sides

Just making videos of gameplay isn't e-sports, and this goes for Smedley as well, since their idea of e-sport apparently is just some kind of televising.
Would televising pickup basketball games at the local basketball court suddenly turn that into an organized sport? No, of course not.

E-sports would mean setting up controlled and standardized conditions, everyone has the same weapons, that kind of thing, victories count, and you're competing against other teams. Doing something else wouldn't really be e-sports. Traditionally, it means something on the order of 5 vs 5, or 8 vs 8, etc.

In theory, it could be made 500 vs 500 for Planetside, but if people retain their ranks from the main game and thus have different stuff unlocked as a result, it's a bit tainted as a competition. And also, did the 1000 people sign up? Are there 8 teams of 500 each playing in an organized league and victories count? If not, it's a tough argument to call it e-sports.

[FuzzyandBlue]

I do have to agree that people are putting the E-Sports concept in far too small a box. I agree with those who are saying that the arena style would not work for PS2. But when I first read Smeds blog I wasn't thinking small arena based combat. That isn't what Planetside is, Planetside is about massive scale combat in a large open world. Any E-sports would need to focus around that large scale combat.

You look at BF3 and its competitive scene is nothing like the core game. It focuses on 4 v 4 Squad Rush, which is why it fails as an E-sport IMO. It doesn't at all reflect what BF3 is all about. Imagine if there we organized 32 v 32 battles where the 4 man squads worked to accomplish specific goals. Where team leaders would give orders based on what needed to be done to secure the win. This could be made even better by giving proper casting tools to those who want to use them.

Now move that to the scale of PS2 where you could have, like Smed said, 500 v 500 v 500 large scale battles. It could be a lot of fun to watch so long as the proper tools are given to those who want to cast that sort of thing. It wouldn't affect the core game because it would be the core game.

For the less inclined to read, TL;DR As long as any broadcasted form of PS2 focuses on what the game is all about it could be really cool.

[Kyros]

As long as you keep the e-sports crap out of the primary game and give them their own servers I don't mind. Otherwise HEEELLLL NO.

[SFJake]

You build a game to be an esport or you don't.

Wannabes don't go anywhere.

Trying to shove PS2 down a esport road is the stupidest thing on Earth, I have to say. It'll backfire big time.

[super pretendo]

Speedruns are esports. Setting the record is a part of the sport. It has nothing to do with videos, the vids are just a proof of a beaten record.
But it does, showcase high skill or being competitive isn't what the term esport is used for. Read the post below yours.

I won't even quote the rest, because you're saying, that "my argument is invalid" while it is valid.

uh, ok, I guess that's settled then, lawl. funny that there are people that are so caught up in themselves that they think they can appeal to their own authority to decide what is valid arbitrarily without any proof

[Syphus]

Would televising pickup basketball games at the local basketball court suddenly turn that into an organized sport? No, of course not.

I have no idea what you are trying to say. It would make it an organized sport because playing basketball is an organized sport. This would just allow people to watch people play it. Therefore it is televised sport.

I don't know why you people are like THIS IS ESPORTS AND IT CAN'T BE ANYTHING ELSE RAAAAAAAGE

[Baneblade]

As long as you keep the e-sports crap out of the primary game and give them their own servers I don't mind. Otherwise HEEELLLL NO.

Terrible idea.

Because then you get actual player segregation and not imagined player segregation.

[Sunrock]

You picked sports that are far away from similar. From golf you should switch to minigolf, but its really more like going from one car racing to another car racing. something that has similar or almost same base mechanics. You can switch because you like new one better, but you will still miss something you were used to. And if enough new players will miss that too, they could change it.

Ok lets use the racing car analogy then. If Planetside is like F1 racing then Counter strike (that has an e-sport around it) is like rally cross. Now if you drive rally cross and is #1 you would still not have a chance in hell to get a F1 car around the first corner without any schooling in how to drive a F1 car first. And even after learned how to drive a F1 car you still would suck at it until you get some real experience driving it.

Now if we where going to dumb down the F1 car to be able to drive like a rally cross car we would not have a F1 car would we?

Here is Richard Hammond explaining how hard it is to drive a F1 car.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EGUZJVY-sHo

PS: I maybe should show what rally cross is for you americans as it's not a car sport that exist over there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_Po6tbHb9c

[Piper]

They did try and set up "outfit wars" (were they called that? memory failure) a few times if I recall in PS1. It was a small collective e-peen-fest over a weekend or two, nothing more.

That it to say, with fourth empiring, and the empire level game being on life support (it isn't going to start live in PS2 from what we know about F2P accounts) they attempted to juice up the idea of an outfit level game.

To my mind outfits can best "prove" themselves by being of service to their empire, good outfits were known by this method in PS1 just fine. :)

My main concern about this and that the team want to put a lot of resources behind it is that of loosing sight of the scale again. Where's the primary focus here? On PS1 like global level strategic play (and the brain cells that need to be exercised over it) or bracketing us up into mini 32v32 games and potentially urinating over your own chips in the process.

Meh, in a word. :( Just because every other game is doing this is perhaps the best reason not to. To instead really focus, and focus the resources, in on the scale of PS2 and make it stand out.

[RoninOni]

Speedruns and recordings of records are not what esports are; neither are PvP videos in early wow. You can be competitive and showcase high skill outside in anything, that doesn't make it a sport or esport.

You are giving contradictory explanations to support your flawed premise; if anything can be made into an eSport by showcasing skill, then you've completely undone any argument for SOE officially supporting planetside. So if people want esports, they can, by your definition, just make community made videos showcasing their skill in the planetside game.

If this is not what eSports is, and you are wrong, then eSports being supported would in fact change the game of PlanetSide 2.

So it looks like the pro-eSports argument crumbles under any sort of scrutiny from both possible sides

Lets make 1 thing clear... even high intensity counterstirke 'eSport' matches ARE NOT SPORTS. Period.

Personally, I hate the word with a passion. I hate the entire concept that skill at video games is in any way significant. It's FUN to be good... but really, am I going to put that into a resume? Hell no. Now if I won the Bronze in the 400m of a national level or higher race, you can bet your sweet tukus that's goin in my resume.

So, if you strip away this fake, inaccurate attachment of actual sports to 'eSports' then it opens up the definition to basically any video game being broadcast for the purpose of entertaining viewers.

EDIT: oh and competitive minesweeper is todays first facepalm

[Notser]

Won't happen, fps games are terrible spectator esport and a game like planetside will require teams too large to gain support from many sponsors. Only positive vibe of working on your game as a esport is the hopeful importance on gameplay and variety.

[FortySe7en]

It's FUN to be good... but really, am I going to put that into a resume? Hell no. Now if I won the Bronze in the 400m of a national level or higher race, you can bet your sweet tukus that's goin in my resume.


Stupid.

It's a sport. People compete, people spend hours of training to get good. To say that you don't learn anything from this either means you are ignorant or naive, your choice.

[Piper]

Dissapointed a lot of folks? For throwing an idea out?

This whole developer/player relationship thing has to be better than that. We have ideas. We throw them out. You like them or not. We make them or not. You play the game or not. We need the feedback loop and we are trying to go way above anything we've ever done and frankly we want to raise the bar in this industry (and there are developers that do this very well so that is a high bar indeed) for interaction with our player community.

I look at this very simply. We make this game for you. You vote both with your feet and your pocketbook. If you don't play, we're screwed.

so let's be able to discuss ideas and not assume the world is coming to an end on December 22, 2012 (launch date for PS2).

Smed

While heartening to read, and the comment about not making it like an arena game, (and as someone who would have liked to have seen that approach being taken in PS1. As in, "We had an idea, we haven't coded a single line yet, what do you think?") it does also sound (from the quote in the OP) like this (E-sports) is now committed to? In terms of planning and resource allocation? You wouldn't now change your mind no matter the feedback?

Don't get me wrong, your game, your funding, you guys 'n' gals do as you please but er.....I'm just curious if you're going to be doing more opinion sounding on big ideas for development well ahead of code/resource allocation time in the future?

[Notser]

Lets make 1 thing clear... even high intensity counterstirke 'eSport' matches ARE NOT SPORTS. Period.

Personally, I hate the word with a passion. I hate the entire concept that skill at video games is in any way significant. It's FUN to be good... but really, am I going to put that into a resume? Hell no. Now if I won the Bronze in the 400m of a national level or higher race, you can bet your sweet tukus that's goin in my resume.



You really think winning a race is worthy of being on a resume? Being athletic isn't really a achievement considering everyone should strive to be healthy. The only reason you feel like putting that race result on your resume is the feeling that others would care about that. I doubt companies like Intel or Blizzard would give a shit about some race you won, where as winning or showing skill in their fields of expertise would garner more interest then some little run. Either way that kind of thing is worthless if it doesn't apply to the job. It is entirely different if you've represented your country however so don't counter with something like that.

[RoninOni]

No, truth.

The real talent to video games are the designers and programmers, NOT the players. The players are the audience. The fans. And they have their fantasy leagues and their backyard games.

You don't see trophy's being handed out for the best fan at the super bowl do yah?

They get some love and recognition sure. But they aren't taking home the trophy.


We're fans, not the stars.


Game broadcasting I find a particularly odd phenomenon. I see how and why it's popular but the entire concept is just funny to me. Primarily I see advantage in watching how better players play, so that I might learn some tricks of the trade, build orders, or tactics, and in fact that is actually what gave birth to them in the first place (match replays being watched of good matches).

There is even some really interesting potential in Planetside to be covered like a war in a way no game ever has before. It could be pretty fun and entertaining.

But that's all any of this is... entertainment.

Sports are physical contests of skill, wits, and strength. Video games may have contests of intelligence and hand eye coordination, but as a veteran of gaming for 25 years (at least) I can say without question that there is no competition between even FPS and non-arena Paintball (urban/forest type real scenarios).

It's not like I have no respect for skill in games, as it does take skill without a doubt....

but the entire attachment to being a 'sport' I find as laughable and absurd.

Like Chess. Chess is a game. They'll have chess competitions. It's not a SPORT though.

THAT'S why I can't stand the term eSport in the first place. It's so erroneous it almost seems like a back handed insult. But just having a 'gaming' competition doesn't sound important enough... no... they're 'eSports'

To me it just makes it sound like people trying to make it sound more important than it is.


oh, and you win 3rd in the national 400m then you're prolly going to the olympics.... who WOULDN'T put THAT on their resume?!? O.o

If I go to the WORLD championship for a game though... the only way that's going on a resume is if I'm applying to a GAME DEVELOPER

I'm not trying to be insulting or to downplay peoples skill at games..... but... it IS still just video games. People sometimes take them far far FAR to seriously IMHO. And I'm a gamer. I'm a hardcore gamer. Hell, I prolly spend more time TALKING about games (this is only 1 forum I frequent) than most people do playing (and I play much more easily). As I said I've been gaming longer then most of today's gamers have been alive. There's nothing wrong with them JUST being video games though.

I feel like 'eSports' though is just trying too hard to be relevant.

In any case, I fully support "Planetside TV" but am wary of anything to try and create small scale tournaments out of it... if this does end up happening, then ANY balance changes made due to said tourneys needs to ONLY apply to these tournament events and NOT affect core gameplay unless a balance is needed to the CORE gameplay. (and I still don't particularly like the idea either. The stream/shoutcast support built in is all fine and dandy though)

[Stardouser]

I have no idea what you are trying to say. It would make it an organized sport because playing basketball is an organized sport. This would just allow people to watch people play it. Therefore it is televised sport.

I don't know why you people are like THIS IS ESPORTS AND IT CAN'T BE ANYTHING ELSE RAAAAAAAGE

What I'm trying to say is that a pickup basketball game isn't truly competitive. It's a team trying to win against another team sure, but once this game ends, the next game might have half different players, and tomorrow's game almost certainly will have all different players. That's not organized competition just because it's televised.

[sagolsun]

No, truth.

The real talent to video games are the designers and programmers, NOT the players. The players are the audience. The fans. And they have their fantasy leagues and their backyard games.

You don't see trophy's being handed out for the best fan at the super bowl do yah?

They get some love and recognition sure. But they aren't taking home the trophy.


We're fans, not the stars.

I disagree. Back in the days of floppy drives and when gaming was indeed meant for kids, we were just passive consumers of content. Today all of that has changed - we've got jobs and PC gamers in particular are very creative and talented people.

We had young gamedevs rise to fame by building incredible mods - PC gamers with a little spare time. A lot of games, particularly the ones with a mature audience, rely on the community to build auxiliary utilities. The interesting part here is that while the community might not be the most technically skilled - you'll have few people writing better shaders - they'll respond and fix deficiencies in the game design via external utilities in a way that's simply amazing. MMORPGs are a good example with professional wikis and clever programming. I've played Anarchy Online once and the automated lookup ingame chatbots were amazing. External utilities that helped you do math regarding implants and stacking.

Or Dwarf Fortress - a closed game virtually unplayable without certain utilities like Dwarf Therapist - or better yet, a completely new separate rendering engine, Stonesense.

The only reason we don't see the community come up with even better stuff is because nobody pays them. There's only so much work you can do before you end up needing a few bucks to cover your expenses.


Keep this in mind, players today don't just play - this is why SOE made the excellent decision of opening up their APIs for 3rd party developers. It's because gaming has changed and they have confidence in us.



Like Chess. Chess is a game. They'll have chess competitions. It's not a SPORT though.

THAT'S why I can't stand the term eSport in the first place. It's so erroneous it almost seems like a back handed insult. But just having a 'gaming' competition doesn't sound important enough... no... they're 'eSports'

The term esports is just a PR-friendly term to describe what you'd otherwise call "I'm watching a guy play a videogame".

[RoninOni]

I disagree. Back in the days of floppy drives and when gaming was indeed meant for kids, we were just passive consumers of content. Today all of that has changed - we've got jobs and PC gamers in particular are very creative and talented people.

We had young gamedevs rise to fame by building incredible mods - PC gamers with a little spare time. A lot of games, particularly the ones with a mature audience, rely on the community to build auxiliary utilities. The interesting part here is that while the community might not be the most technically skilled - you'll have few people writing better shaders - they'll respond and fix deficiencies in the game design via external utilities in a way that's simply amazing. MMORPGs are a good example with professional wikis and clever programming. I've played Anarchy Online once and the automated lookup ingame chatbots were amazing. External utilities that helped you do math regarding implants and stacking.

Or Dwarf Fortress - a closed game virtually unplayable without certain utilities like Dwarf Therapist - or better yet, a completely new separate rendering engine, Stonesense.

The only reason we don't see the community come up with even better stuff is because nobody pays them. There's only so much work you can do before you end up needing a few bucks to cover your expenses.


Keep this in mind, players today don't just play - this is why SOE made the excellent decision of opening up their APIs for 3rd party developers. It's because gaming has changed and they have confidence in us.





The term esports is just a PR-friendly term to describe what you'd otherwise call "I'm watching a guy play a videogame".

#1 You're examples are mostly gamers turned developers....

There's 3 categories, and a person may fall into 1 or more of them (or none I guess but then you wouldn't be here)

Gamer: Player of video games created by developers and oft with modifications made by other players

Developer: Content creators. The guys who make the games. As I said, the real stars of the show. Modders are in this group, usually in a MUCH more diminished sense but there are also some AMAZINGLY talented modders out there

Viewer: New odd (IMO) category of people who watch gamers play the games made by the developers. The shoutcasters themselves fit into this category as they are indeed... watching. They're also relaying what they see, hyping it up, talking about, and if they're any good, get a large following of viewers. This entire concept of video games still boggles my mind, yet as long as it doesn't intrude on the original and IMO true purpose of the game itself.

And I know it's just a PR friendly term for streamed and viewed gaming... it's just such a BAD term though IMO.

[Shogun]

smed, thanks for opening up to us like this!

with that blog and the detailed answers you gave here, you have earned my respect!

maybe you should really change the word "esports". the actual meaning of esports seems incompatible to planetside, but the thing you described, that is more like war journalism or watching big real-sports events sounds really cool! it´s time to put some more gaming on tv!

maybe even do some running man like events with celebrities ;)

again, thanks for the communication and for sharing the ideas! most of them sound great and it is awesome, that you seem to be aware of the potential that lies in planetside 2!

[Azarga]

No idea why smed called shout-casting esports. If it's just a shout-casting, let it be, I'm no fan of it but see no harm in it anyway.
If it's esports then please let me stay on a server without it, I've had enough of leaderboards, matchmaking and shit, I come for planetside for different things. If people want this so bad, fine, but let them have their deathmatches on a separate servers.

[Forsaken One]

Honestly EVERY game i have ever played that attached Esports to itself became shit.

League of Legends balance became shit when they added Ranked mode. The competitive retardation the game has fallen into has sucked a lot of the fun out of the game.

If any of you are playing Natural Selection 2. The game is a load of shitty balance and I'm not talking just numbers wise. BUT NS1 is a blast because the players made that competitive not the devs.

People have forgotten that PLAYERS should make a game competitive. When a game is built, changed to be, or allows flaws to exist for exploiting for the reason of being competitive it sucks the fun out of the game.


Tetris can be competitive at any level. However when you force people to play at super high speeds because that's what the "E-tards" want you not only suck the fun out of the game but you bastardize what was once a good game.

Systems that this falls under are high skill high reward, "annoying to do/play so more power given", weakening what some may find fun because people bitch that "it doesn't take skill" and other such nonsense.

[PhoenixDog]

My fear...And I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread yet or not...Is balance. The big problem WoW had was balancing a PvE game in regards to PvP, moreso towards e-Sports. I'm concerned that if SoE pursues a e-Sports type environment, even with a dedicated server restricted to invitees...That certain flaws with this type of structure may be pronounced, and thus balanced on the live servers, skewing the balance of the real game.

Obviously balancing WoW between PvP and PvE is much different than with Planetside 2 which is 100% PvP...But having a game balanced around massive 2000 player battles is much different than with say 50v50 or even 100v100.

All I'm getting at is as long as they don't try and tune the game we are all enjoying to balance a smaller version of it...I really don't care either way. XoO may even delve into the idea as an outfit. But I play this game for the large scale PvP. I don't want it to be balanced for small scale.

[sagolsun]

My fear...And I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread yet or not...Is balance. The big problem WoW had was balancing a PvE game in regards to PvP, moreso towards e-Sports. I'm concerned that if SoE pursues a e-Sports type environment, even with a dedicated server restricted to invitees...That certain flaws with this type of structure may be pronounced, and thus balanced on the live servers, skewing the balance of the real game.

Obviously balancing WoW between PvP and PvE is much different than with Planetside 2 which is 100% PvP...But having a game balanced around massive 2000 player battles is much different than with say 50v50 or even 100v100.

All I'm getting at is as long as they don't try and tune the game we are all enjoying to balance a smaller version of it...I really don't care either way. XoO may even delve into the idea as an outfit. But I play this game for the large scale PvP. I don't want it to be balanced for small scale.

Agreed.

Balancing asymmetrically is a bitch. SC1 and SC2 are one of the very very few esports games that manage to have different abilities and strategies for each side. Development took so long because balancing asymmetric factions is very difficult. You need to get loads of data to do that - with SC2 you can just let alpha testers loose and parse the data, afterwards tweak the stats, rinse repeat until you get even wins.

PS2 however.. balancing is going to be very difficult. War is inherently unbalanced and I think PS2 is supposed to be more of a war simulator than a sport. Those two are opposite directions and I'm pretty sure that features which make it a better esports game also are detrimental to the war simulator experience.

Edit:
In addition it's hard to get reliable metrics with PS2. It's open nature means you can't reliably quantify the context of the events on which you're collecting data. With PS2 everything is interlinked, not segmented, therefore the only metrics of use are low level (kills per weapon, most preferred weapon, K/D ratios ect) - but if you give a AOE howitzer to NC and a nerve gas bomb to NC, comparing those two becomes impossible.

And I'd like to have different weapons for different factions. I really would.

[shamE]

Ahhh, all the old out of touch vets thinking it will affect the normal gameplay.

[NewSith]

But it does, showcase high skill or being competitive isn't what the term esport is used for. Read the post below yours.
So you're all FOR bringing competition to planetside 2, yet you are AGAINST making it an esport?

Because I don't see what part of my post you are countering.

Ahhh, all the old out of touch vets thinking it will affect the normal gameplay.

No, from my experience it's that people are afraid of players doing only the competitive thing, whilst claiming that they are the best (while not playing the mainstream, "public" game, in which they will obviously suck balls according to first players' logic), what a psyhologist can describe as hidden jealousy. I saw plenty of that when we hit "the best" mark in EU Global Agenda AvA.

[super pretendo]

I'm not for adding competition to planetside, because competition implies sterilizing the game for the sake of pre-matched arena balance. I am for it being a fun, persistent game

[Warruz]

Lets make 1 thing clear... even high intensity counterstirke 'eSport' matches ARE NOT SPORTS. Period.

Personally, I hate the word with a passion. I hate the entire concept that skill at video games is in any way significant. It's FUN to be good... but really, am I going to put that into a resume? Hell no. Now if I won the Bronze in the 400m of a national level or higher race, you can bet your sweet tukus that's goin in my resume.

So, if you strip away this fake, inaccurate attachment of actual sports to 'eSports' then it opens up the definition to basically any video game being broadcast for the purpose of entertaining viewers.

EDIT: oh and competitive minesweeper is todays first facepalm

Chess is a sport

[NewSith]

I'm not for adding competition to planetside, because competition implies sterilizing the game for the sake of pre-matched arena balance. I am for it being a fun, persistent game

You are wrong in this regard, I assure you. To make a game competitive, all you need to is set the "rule of default". A good example is old BF2 pcw matches, where use of any unlocked items was prohibited.

[super pretendo]

wait, so you are saying we should removed unlocked items from the game? That doesn't sound fun at all

[NewSith]

wait, so you are saying we should removed unlocked items from the game? That doesn't sound fun at all

If you are an e-sportsman inside the competition area than - yes. BF2 competitive players were finding it very fun.

EDIT: If you want something more persistant, my signature is the way to go. But that definitely isn't the thing you liked.

[RoninOni]

Chess is a sport

I hate the bastardization of language.

a Sport is a TYPE of game. Just like video games, and board games are other types.

I don't know why people find it necessary to call something something that it is not but they do. And then they get pissy and make a fuss outta it and get someone to change a definition somewhere.

Chess is a board game, as football or running are sports.

If Chess is a Sport, then wtf are football and running?

Sports simply = physical games/competitions.

I wish Video Games got a cooler word to describe their category of games too, but that doesn't mean we should latch onto the only categories name that doesn't include 'game' in it's nomenclature simply because we want it to sound more serious.

[NewSith]

I hate the bastardization of language.

a Sport is a TYPE of game. Just like video games, and board games are other types.

I don't know why people find it necessary to call something something that it is not but they do. And then they get pissy and make a fuss outta it and get someone to change a definition somewhere.

Chess is a board game, as football or running are sports.

If Chess is a Sport, then wtf are football and running?

Sports simply = physical games/competitions.

I wish Video Games got a cooler word to describe their category of games too, but that doesn't mean we should latch onto the only categories name that doesn't include 'game' in it's nomenclature simply because we want it to sound more serious.

Do you consider bobsleigh a sport?

EDIT: "...eigh", stupid night.

[Whiteknight]

I'm not for adding competition to planetside, because competition implies sterilizing the game for the sake of pre-matched arena balance. I am for it being a fun, persistent game

If they were to do an 'E-sport' version of the game for competition, they would need to either unlock everything and have it on a separate server where all players involved in it had all of the upgrades/Certs/weapons available, or set it as a baseline 0, with nothing unlocked available. The more likely of the two is setting it up with Everything unlocked/available -- maximum carnage, minimum fuss.

Or, they could just do it between two teams with two bases, and leave it on the server, and let everyone else see how much they could do to mess with one side or the other and influence the outcome to favor their own side.... which would sound like fun.

[RoninOni]

Do you consider bobsleigh a sport?

EDIT: "...eigh", stupid night.

You're trying to come up with exceptions but the issue is the general definition.

Bobsledding is certainly more Sport than video game I'd say.... :groovy:

[Forsaken One]

I hate the bastardization of language.

a Sport is a TYPE of game. Just like video games, and board games are other types.

I don't know why people find it necessary to call something something that it is not but they do. And then they get pissy and make a fuss outta it and get someone to change a definition somewhere.

Chess is a board game, as football or running are sports.

If Chess is a Sport, then wtf are football and running?

Sports simply = physical games/competitions.

I wish Video Games got a cooler word to describe their category of games too, but that doesn't mean we should latch onto the only categories name that doesn't include 'game' in it's nomenclature simply because we want it to sound more serious.

You are both right and wrong.

You see Esports tend to be dumbed down video games where most of the fun as well as the mental side is taken out of the game (or never existed in the first place) and you are mainly left with the "physical skill" side of the game.

Thro that's another term that has been bastardized to make Esports seem better. "Dumbed down" When I say dumbed down I don't mean made less skillfull I mean the REAL term being made to cater to people with less brains and more brawn or "muscle memory" as it were.

[Stardouser]

E-sports would have to be standardized. Removing unlocks from the e-sport arena would be absolutely necessary and does not in any way constitute removing unlocks from the main game. And, it's also a STRONG clue to the fact that only people who would intend to actually compete would use these arenas, the average player would not spend time playing casually in such arenas with no unlocks or stats.

And yes, it is true that e-sports is pretty much the removal of everything but the physical skill part. Could we someday see an e-sports league where we have 8 teams of 200 players each fighting a 6 hour war free for all? Or even 8 teams of 200 each fighting one team vs one team battles in a double elimination format. which would allow for the preservation of some strategical war aspects? The key is that you want the 200 players to be the same in each battle, and that's a big logistical concern.

[FortySe7en]

Chess is a board game, as football or running are sports.

If Chess is a Sport, then wtf are football and running?


Sport is all forms of competitive physical activity which,[1] through casual or organised participation, aim to use, maintain or improve physical ability and provide entertainment to participants

I know most of you have never competed on a level other than casual, but video games at their top level are very physical. Just look at the people who play SC2 and how they have to maintain their APM. It isn't something that you just "do". It requires a lot of physical training and devotion to become a top competitor in something.

E-sports is a thing. If you don't like it, gtfo.

[NewSith]

You're trying to come up with exceptions but the issue is the general definition.

Bobsledding is certainly more Sport than video game I'd say.... :groovy:

Damn, you pulled it together...

But seriously, eSport is only eSport after it gets broadcasted and advertised. At any other given time it is competitive play. Pretty much like street football with your friends and neighbours.

The problem here is a matter of perception. If "esports" in planetside 2 would be first advertised as "competitive content/modes" it wouldn't have recieved so much negative responses.

[RoninOni]

Oh I agree with that.

I think the concept of "Planetside TV" is far more enticing than "Planetside eSports"

And I do understand that eSports IS a new term, and it does specifically refer to broadcasted competitive play. And I do even understand that it takes a level of dedication to achieve that level, trust me I do.

I just don't like the relationship to sports, original sports, in the term. I think it was a poor choice but it picked up in the media hype. That's all I'm saying.

Oh, and I also think Planetside is a horrible platform for small competitive arena gameplay... but Smedley already confirmed that's not the plan. At most they'll have instanced large scale outfit on outfit battles, but honestly, with how hard I've seen it is to even trying to get regular 12v12 matches going, I don't have much faith in the idea.... and the size requirement means anyone not in one of these outfits would just be playing the real planetside with the rest of us, so I don't think it would really hurt anything, and it might even succeed which could actually be cool... though I'd still rather see those outfits winning real territory for that 3 hours =\

[Rumblepit]

i can only speculate , but they way esl has done it in the past is to implement their own rules. common pool weapons only, limited maxes,medics, identical team builds, no certs or mods.

the idea is the make it as balanced as possible. let skill determine the winner.
looking forward to this very much. saw it coming along time ago :)

[FortySe7en]

The problem here is a matter of perception. If "esports" in planetside 2 would be first advertised as "competitive content/modes" it wouldn't have recieved so much negative responses.

Not true at all. And just because something is harder doesn't make it more of a sport. I would argue that it is much harder to try and predict where your opponent is headed and to re-adjust your strategy than it is to go down a hill made of ice.

Esports isn't just something that is broadcasted. Just like the Olympics aren't only about track and field.

Esports is becoming more of an organization. You have people like Day9, Cryptic, TotalBiscuit, and many others who are representations of a generation of gamers. Esports is anything that you can play on a competitive level. League of Legends, Battlefield, Street Fighter, Guitar Hero, etc...

Granted LoL is more famous in the E-sports franchise, it doesn't take away from the competition of the others in their respective fields.

Electronic sports (eSports) comprises the competitive play of video games. Other terms include competitive gaming, professional gaming, e-sport, and cybersport. The most common video game genres associated with electronic sports are real-time strategy (RTS), fighting, first-person shooter (FPS), massively-multiplayer online (MMOG), and racing. Games are played competitively at amateur, semi-professional and professional levels, and some games have organized competition in the form of leagues and tournaments. Events such as Major League Gaming (MLG), Global Starcraft II League (GSL), World Cyber Games (WCG), Dreamhack, and Intel Extreme Masters provide both real-time casting of streamed games, and cash prizes to the winners.

They've already stated on twitter that they have a way for people to make money, and to broadcast. Hence, PS2 (in the eyes of developers) is coming out of the box as a competitive franchise.

Point and case.

[NewSith]

***

You didn't really track "NewSith-super pretendo" argument, did you? :)

[Forsaken One]

Oh I agree with that.

I think the concept of "Planetside TV" is far more enticing than "Planetside eSports"

I just don't like the relationship to sports, original sports, in the term. I think it was a poor choice but it picked up in the media hype. That's all I'm saying.


If I was going to watch something I too would much watch rather players playing the real planetside instead of watching a small match of mostly handicapped people with high reflexs derp around.


When I think of watching video games I like to think of it like this.

A non e-sport would be a awesome game of airsoft or paintball, where weather was random and the mental thinking of the players and the tricks they pulled was as important or more then their aim.

E-sports however is like watching a group of dumbass's running around a field for 10 minutes.

[FortySe7en]

You didn't really track "NewSith-super pretendo" argument, did you? :)

No idea who you are or what that means. Sorry :huh:

[NewSith]

No idea who you are or what that means. Sorry :huh:

In other words:

Are you sure you are arguing with a person that doesn't think the same way you do?

[FortySe7en]

In other words:

Are you sure you are arguing with a person that doesn't think the same way you do?

If I thought you thought the same way, I obviously wouldn't have posted my opinion on the matter. The fact is, whether you call it competitive or an e-sport it will be received the same way.

It all comes down to haters gonna hate because they aren't a part of the "movement" if you will. E-sports is great for the community, and I hope PS2 could pull it off. SOE could use that kind of following.

[Hydra]

Lol Esports. :rolleyes:
Esports doesn't belong in a game like Planetside, but whatever it has zero affect on me.

[NewSith]

The fact is, whether you call it competitive or an e-sport it will be received the same way.

eSport is competitive play, first and foremost. Broadcasts, money, prises and twitchskill wankership come second.

-----------------------------------------------------------

It all comes down to haters gonna hate because they aren't a part of the "movement" if you will. E-sports is great for the community, and I hope PS2 could pull it off. SOE could use that kind of following.

...from my experience it's that people are afraid of players doing only the competitive thing, whilst claiming that they are the best (while not playing the mainstream, "public" game, in which they will obviously suck balls according to first players' logic), what a psyhologist can describe as hidden jealousy. I saw plenty of that when we hit "the best" mark in EU Global Agenda AvA.

EDIT: What I was saying in the post you quoted referred to a different matter.

[RoninOni]

My point is more that PS2 just isn't built for arena play. Sure, they're doing the best job they can at getting the tightest gunplay mechanics they can... but they'll NEVER be as good for 5v5 arena combat as a game DESIGNED primarily just for that.

200v200 would actually be something PS2 could offer as an "arena" (granted arena 40x larger, with 40x as many players) for eSport gameplay. However again I still have my doubts. While the concept and potential successful execution could be something awesome and unique, the logistics of coordinating 400 players from 2 different outfits is jaw dropping. We tried to get 12v12 matches in BF3 and most clans would only do 8v8 cause it was easier to actually field your guys at match time. Maybe PS2 can do it, but you're going to need 200 bench warmers per side to pull it off. The other issue is that with the other eSports, the small teams lends itself to a HUGE pool of players, of which the top 10 stand above the rest.... it'll be hard to even get 10 teams that can field proper PS2 battles.

Finally, as I noted, those players and their accomplishments would be better served ON THE SERVER where the victory or loss actually matters to their respective war. If I see the other 2 factions are in a grudge match... guess what, it's time to go start grabbing up territory guys cause their best outfits are having a slug fest.

[shamE]

No, from my experience it's that people are afraid of players doing only the competitive thing, whilst claiming that they are the best (while not playing the mainstream, "public" game, in which they will obviously suck balls according to first players' logic), what a psyhologist can describe as hidden jealousy. I saw plenty of that when we hit "the best" mark in EU Global Agenda AvA.
AvA and global agenda were terrible games, just because something happens in one game doesn't mean it will happen in another. Its the communities attitude and planetside's community is actually a really good one unlike most other games. If anything competition would exponentially increase the games popularity and would be really good for not only the game but also the community as well so long as the veterans of planetside 1 quit being so narrow minded. If it does happen it wont effect the normal gameplay and people wont just do competition that not how it works.

Just keep a open mind about it. I trust SOE will make it to where it doesn't interfere with the normal servers and that it will have a very positive effect on the game and its community.

[RoninOni]

I think it'd be MORE interesting to broadcast when these outfits clash on the live battlefield. It will be inevitable over time as outfits make names for themselves, and the territories grow and outfits lay their stakes, and enemy outfits near them will end up clashing with each other.

THAT'S what I think would make for an interesting broadcast.

[Oranos]

I think the problem here Smedley is that you are using the word eSports.

ESports implies a kind of professionalism, casters in suits, pretty girls interviewing people that know nothing about the game, IGN, 10 minutes of adverts between games and big money rewards with sponsorship deals.

Now you tell someone in the FGC that Fighting Games are an eSport and they will rip your head off, they're very different things. Are SC2 and Fighting Games both serious competition? Yes, but one is eSports, the other is not.

If you just mean you want people to stream competitively then that's great, or do you really mean to go full eSports like SC2?

[FortySe7en]

Now you tell someone in the FGC that Fighting Games are an eSport and they will rip your head off, they're very different things. Are SC2 and Fighting Games both serious competition? Yes, but one is eSports, the other is not.

WHAT?!!?!?! :eek::eek::eek:

The most common video game genres associated with electronic sports are real-time strategy (RTS), fighting, first-person shooter (FPS), massively-multiplayer online (MMOG), and racing.

The only reason a person wouldn't consider fighting games an e-sports (crazies) is because they don't have the following of games like sc2. This doesn't mean its not an e-sport.

You guys are thinking way to much into this. E-sports are games that can be played competitively. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less. If you can challenge people online head to head in a competitive mode, you can be in the electronic sports world.

[Alanim]

I could see the esport scene working pretty good for planetside2, bare with me now as I explain the scenario.

500x500, 5000 respawns each. possibly 500x500x500 5000 respawns each.

LARGE map, say half or a quarter of the current maps, maybe even just bordered off areas.

30 bases, capture points give both resources AND respawns, say 1 respawn per minute, per base. With such a low amount given per minute it gives you a advantage to have more, but not something that makes you invincible.

To win you either need to make the opponent lose all their respawns OR push them all the way back to their base.

And instead of watching a single player, you would be watching a squad or perhaps a platoon, lock onto a squad and you can change only between the players in a squad.

The competition wouldn't be all about the performance of a single or couple of players, it'd be about the effectiveness of the entire outfit. you'd even be able to do percentages on their strengths, as a total outfit, meaning they might be REALLY effective tank/aircraft users, but might only be average at ground assault.

It would be more like football, where you have to exploit your enemies weakness, while not succumbing to your own weakness. and instead of a individual player having all the fame and glory, it might be shifted to squads/platoons, because a single man can't insure a victory all by himself in this type of game.

Or atleast that's how I envision it.

[Ruxios]

after reading this entire thread i must say that "esports" being used to describe this is just a wrong term and is causing people to freak out a little bit now if we had a server stored 3d video of the entire battlefield that you could go thru and comment on at a little date that would be much better imo

[Stardouser]

I could see the esport scene working pretty good for planetside2, bare with me now as I explain the scenario.

500x500, 5000 respawns each. possibly 500x500x500 5000 respawns each.

LARGE map, say half or a quarter of the current maps, maybe even just bordered off areas.

30 bases, capture points give both resources AND respawns, say 1 respawn per minute, per base. With such a low amount given per minute it gives you a advantage to have more, but not something that makes you invincible.

To win you either need to make the opponent lose all their respawns OR push them all the way back to their base.

And instead of watching a single player, you would be watching a squad or perhaps a platoon, lock onto a squad and you can change only between the players in a squad.

The competition wouldn't be all about the performance of a single or couple of players, it'd be about the effectiveness of the entire outfit. you'd even be able to do percentages on their strengths, as a total outfit, meaning they might be REALLY effective tank/aircraft users, but might only be average at ground assault.

It would be more like football, where you have to exploit your enemies weakness, while not succumbing to your own weakness. and instead of a individual player having all the fame and glory, it might be shifted to squads/platoons, because a single man can't insure a victory all by himself in this type of game.

Or atleast that's how I envision it.

A limited respawn 500 vs 500 organized war is exactly what I always envisioned for competitive combat....

[FortySe7en]

You guys are thinking WAY to big here.

The only way this would be successful if it was platoon on platoon. 48v48. 500 v 500 would be stupid to watch, let alone try and cast.

[RoninOni]

You guys are thinking WAY to big here.

The only way this would be successful if it was platoon on platoon. 48v48. 500 v 500 would be stupid to watch, let alone try and cast.

even 48v48 is going to be hard to organize ... and breaching the, too small to play to PS2's strength, border

[FireWater]

Truthfully,

I think its a great ambition for now, but the only way to make an eSport work is on a much SMALLER format, i.e. max 8v8.

eSports needs to be able to focus on the players as well as the match. Casters need to be able to call out players/actions. Anything too large would be difficult to specatate, cast and organize frankly.

I give SOE the benefit of the doubt, I am kind of curious what they are up to though.

[tkoreaper]

I think everyone is putting way too much thought into this eSport thing... Making it more complicated than it needs to be.

To those saying that eSport in PS can't be pulled off or that PS itself can't pull off having an eSport stop being so narrow-minded. Planetside is a game of it's own... No other to call it it's equal... no clones. Why should an eSport aspect of the game be a clone of all the others? You say there's no room for small scale 10 vs 10 combat like current eSports in PS and you'd be right, BUT that's not what PS is about.

What do I think about when eSport and Planetside come to mind? I think about Outfit versus Outfit action... who said eSport needs to be on a smaller scale? As I said, stop being so narrow-minded and use your brains... Why would PS stoop low enough to become just another version of your typical eSport? Think larger scale! Current FPS eSports are like golf... PS eSport would be like the NFL or NBA.

[Polaris]

I wouldn't mind seeing some competition play in this game. I think it needs to be set-up like WoW's Arena/R-BGs. You have your team to do the 4v4/8v8/12v12 ladders, except giving you the option to play against other teams in a random queue (based on your rank) and an invite system to support Ladder/League Play. This is one game I'd buy map-packs that are designed for competition, since the game is F2P.

The only thing I will say, is I have no interest in seeing another Battlefield. I would prefer to see it be Infantry Only or Light Vehicles. This is strictly my personal opinion. We'll see I guess.

[RoninOni]

What do I think about when eSport and Planetside come to mind? I think about Outfit versus Outfit action... who said eSport needs to be on a smaller scale? As I said, stop being so narrow-minded and use your brains... Why would PS stoop low enough to become just another version of your typical eSport? Think larger scale! Current FPS eSports are like golf... PS eSport would be like the NFL or NBA.

I covered this in a post....

this thread IS 12 pages long so I forgive you for not reading it :P

Outfit vs Outfit is the only way I could see it being popular because it WOULD fail to beat dedicated arena games at arena eSports combat.

So it would HAVE to be large scale and it might even be really cool and take off.... there are some wicked logistics with getting 100-200 players just on 1 team together reliably with mixed schedules etc so I have some pretty substantial doubts on it getting pulled off.

Persistent battles are different than scheduled matches. Persistent battle is just whoever's on is on... but eSports tends to require more structure than that.

[Slide Surveyor]

Holy crap my worst fears coming true. Is this not the type of content they promised to keep out of the game? Meaning all the junk that has failed before in previous tittles. Smed has lost it.I agree.

[PoisonTaco]

If this means my outfit can be found live and commentated on while we're just playing around and capturing bases I'm all for it. How awesome would it be to fight over bases and find out people are cheering for you? They want you to succeed, and likewise there's people hoping that the enemy will rout you out.

I'm not talking about anything structured like 500 v 500. I'm just talking about commentators, SOE and any other audiences taking a camera in game, looking for action and seeing what's going on.

Maybe have something in-game that pops up going, "You are being watched!"

[Eyeklops]

This whole "Developers not just looking at customers as just dollar signs" thing is going to take some time to build; although the Planetside 2 dev team has done a great job so far from my experience.

Cheers.

I have ZERO problems with a company trying to earn my money. It's when they stop trying to earn it, and expect you to pay the full price for the bare minimum effort (last 2~3 years of PS1). All I want is a company that can maximize the money that I give them by creating high quality balanced content.

Honestly, SOE should look at the PS1 subscription archives and reward a nice chunk of PS2 station cash to the hardcore PS1 vets (not me) that gave hundreds of dollars over the last couple years to keep PS1 running. That would make them look a TON better in my eyes (even though I wouldn't get any of it).

[psychobilly]

I'm not talking about anything structured like 500 v 500. I'm just talking about commentators, SOE and any other audiences taking a camera in game, looking for action and seeing what's going on.


Was going to say no to the whole esport concept... but I'm cool with the above. Make it just an aspect of the existing game. One outfit can still throw down a challenge to another - but anyone can show up if they want.

[Xaine]

I'm very for E-Sports. :)

[Sunrock]

You guys are thinking WAY to big here.

The only way this would be successful if it was platoon on platoon. 48v48. 500 v 500 would be stupid to watch, let alone try and cast.

IMO 48x48 might even be too big for e-sports. I think they have to restrict it down to squad vs squad, that is 10 vs 10.

And when we have 10 vs 10..... Is it really Planetside we are playing then?

[FortySe7en]

IMO 48x48 might even be too big for e-sports. I think they have to restrict it down to squad vs squad, that is 10 vs 10.

And when we have 10 vs 10..... Is it really Planetside we are playing then?

The only way they could LAN it is 10v10.

And if they had some sort of competitive 10v10 mode, that would be brilliant. Its better than running around watching zerg outfits bash their face into a base until they finally get in.

[Harasus]

I could totally see a 500v500 eSport match. Sure, it would not be so much focused on individuals as it would be on the bigger picture. You would not have any zerging, instead everything would be planned down to the smallest detail. It could be pretty damn epic to watch, especially if you had commentators that could go into spectator mode and just watch everything going on at anytime and anywhere.

Of course, the game and the outfits would have to be successful for that to work.

[Otleaz]

I can imagine it now- flying 1000 guys out to play in a huge room, and all the preparation that would be involved.

After costs, the grand prize would be a total of however much change the SOE employees have in their pockets at the time.

[Bruttal]

you know smed, You gave me a grand idea. Have you ever seen the movie "death race" What your talking about kinda reminds me of that. Would take some work to get it right though.

[Firearms]

Sounds great to me. Would love to watch my outfit while I'm stuck in work :)

Def. a shame Smed used the term eSports to generate so much whining.

[JoCool]

http://i46.tinypic.com/2ypjfvs.png

[Tuoweit]

the average player would not spend time playing casually in such arenas with no unlocks or stats.

???

Quake was popular before anyone ever came up with unlocks or stats, as was UT. Or Team Fortress, CoD 2, and Battlefield 1942, if you want team games. Or countless other FPS games prior to the latest generations of CoD/Battlefield.

Frankly, Unlocks (or rather, to be more precise - arbitrarily locking away 90% of the options until you grind enough "xp" through play) in match-based FPS games killed my desire to play online in random matches (and removing private servers with server-side unlocks/unlocks through LAN play killed any remaining desire to keep up with the latest editions to play just with friends).

I realize there may appear to be some irony in saying this on a PS2 forum, but (a) PS2 looks to have a broad availability of stuff from the instant you start playing, and (b) it's also an MMO so some persona persistence & advancement is to be expected as part of the genre (which I like in an MMO, just don't put it in my match-based FPS games).


On the topic of "eSports" in PS2 - I think the idea of broadcasting/webcasting/Smedcasting/whatever you call it of actual ongoing gameplay, is great. I'm ambivalent about the "organized competition" side of it, I'd have to see a more concrete proposal. I don't think there's really a solid argument against it on principle, but (like many ideas) there's plenty of ways it could be badly executed.

[Mordecai TR]

I am actually interested in seeing what they will do with it. I remeber in the original planetside (even before official launch) they had some sort of special server set to hold war games. It seemed they would give each empire a certain goal to go after and this would result in huge battles. I did not particapte but i did listen to the podcast Hamma did for it and his play by play was really good. Maybe Hamma could post those again. it could give ppl an idea of what maybe they are talking about.

[Shamrock]

Anyone who plays EVE Online and watches the Alliance Tournaments should have a pretty good idea of what Esports could look like in PlanetSide. It allows competitive players an opportunity to compete in a tournament that matters (prizes and awards!), allows interested players to watch streaming matches for the sake of entertainment and self-improvement, and allows uninterested players to not give a flying fuck and not really be affected in any way.

If PS2 follows a similar route, it shouldn't be a problem.

Couldn't agree more, the E-Sport element of EVE is totally self contained and a periodic event that is live streamed. It has a very low impact on the game while being a good promotional tool that is entertaining to the player-base.

[sgtbjack]

I dont see how WOW areana affected the core game. I didnt do much arena, but I didnt give a crap that others were into it.

Step 1, create e-sports=people who want to compete in smaller scale fights, do, but then, they start to complain that they should be given rewards for it

Step 2. give in, and create a reward system for e-sports=now everyone that wants to be competitive starts doing them even if they hate them(faster matches, equals faster rewards, and titles given? Should some group of 4 players that own in their 4 man group get rank over people that fight for continents? I'm worried you would start to get leaders that can't lead, but are great at playing 18 hours a day. You know, those guys that only lose because everyone else sucks, but they are leet.

Step 3. World pvp fizzles out(which is ok in WoW, but in planetside? Doesn't that seem very counter productive to what makes this game?

I haven't played WoW, nor would I, this is just the crap I've always read again and again on forums. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but all I've ever heard about e-sports is that its only for personal achievement, and group play becomes fractured.

in short EVE e-sports=good, doesn't effect anything
WoW e-sports=I will hold off on playing till about 6 months in, to see how the games holding up

[Red Beard]

make the "E-sport" part of Planetside be competition for the highest (accurate) leadership rating per faction, giving you access to higher end meta game powers. This would fit perfectly into the culture of PS, where people playing would CARE who is winning, in a way that COMPLIMENTS core game play, rather than DETRACTING from it.

[RawketLawnchair]

Guess this is the real question really. How would it work? To me this reads as if they are adding tools for e-sports for broadcasters..

For now, this is really how I feel about this. In a game like PlanetSide 2 that doesn't really have personal instances, I can't see it being anything other than either what Hamma said, or...

Instanced combat.

It is the only real way to have a clan match system.

[sgtbjack]

make the "E-sport" part of Planetside be competition for the highest (accurate) leadership rating per faction, giving you access to higher end meta game powers. This would fit perfectly into the culture of PS, where people playing would CARE who is winning, in a way that COMPLIMENTS core game play, rather than DETRACTING from it.

Depends on the scale, if its 100 vs 100, sure, but if its 1 vs 1 or 10 vs 10 or lower, than no. You should not get anything that puts you ahead of commanders that lead massive scale engagements for continental control.

Being in charge of 10 guys with all their certs maxxed because they can throw 18 hours into a game does not ever translate into good leaders in large scale battles. Its the same as that guy who's got maxxed stats and armor two weeks after a game launches being considered good leader material, when he's not.

[DaClabe]

I think this needs a bump I still see a lot of people who are worried about PS2 and E-Sports.


you are thinking way too narrowly IMO. How many of you watch anything on Twitch TV? I do. I don't play Starcraft II but I watch the hell out of it. It is gradually taking on a lot of the time I used to spend watching TV (which isn't a ton anyways since I spend most of my free time gaming).

Do not think of an Esport the way they exist now. Planetside 2 will not fit into that square hole. However imagine a 500 person outfit fighting another 500 person outfit with cameras posted (time delayed) at a bunch of locations around the world and spectators able to follow people around the map at various locations. Imagine really good Casters following the best players on each side (maybe it's even all 3 empires fighting). Imagine a Season where we allow outfits to register (with requirements about size, etc) and be tracked during that season on a huge number of stats.

There are 2 ways of looking at Esports. One way is literally as pure competition. Another is looking at it as really well done Television. Instead of watching Survivor wouldn't you rather watch an hour long battle casted by really good shoutcasters and follow some of the best players in the game?

Esports is a lot more than simple arena matches. It's really becoming about watching other people game. Those of you that think this idea is stupid.. I was one of you. Now I'm hooked. Give it a try.. you will be too.

We have made the decision to innovate in a major way in Esports. It's not going to be the primary focus and driver of Planetside 2.. but we are adding technology that is already in the game and working that will allow you to cast directly from Planetside 2 without the need for external clients. At some point real soon you will even be able to follow your outfit mates from your ipad or iPhone as they pull of a Bin Laden style raid on some base and you'r going to be able to watch them. And guess what. Down the line (not at launch). If you have the right certs. You'll be able to do some drone action yourself.

Please keep an open mind. We aren't going to change what's at the heart of Planetside 2 to try and shove it into being an arena based shooter. That ain't happening.

[Kordoyn]

As posted previously, I think the EvE method would truly be able to shine here in PS2.

It would in essence be a very small fraction of what the game is about, much like it is just a sliver of EvE. But it would be quick, entertaining, and challenging.

Rewards could range from station cash, to custom skins, guns, vehicles, etc for the winning team.

It's tough to compress what is essentially an impossibly vast and deep gaming experience into something presentable as an e-sport, but I don't think showing 500 v 500 battles which rage for hours is conducive to entertaining a viewer base. At least not live.

That said, condensing an 8 hour battle into an edited segment with nice camera pans, and quality commentary lasting about an hour might be a solid way to show off the vast scale of the game, while at the same time actually progressing the action at a pace reasonable enough to watch in a single sitting.

[Stew]

I'm doing targeted feedback threads on all items from Smed's Blog (http://john-smedley.livejournal.com/2412.html). This one is for eSports Support.



Thoughts!


Planetside 2 Esports serious talk how it should be ? - YouTube

This i dont want planetside to dumb down the scales and focus on smalls scales match arena to fit the (( actual )) esports way to do thing , because it will be a bad thing for the game , look at the BF competitive 4 vs 4 lame crap this actually kill the BF i love , and i dont want SOE to bring some more people in who are not whilling to participate in large scales combat senarios

If their is a esports i want it to be massive and to redefine the esports as it is i mean covering a large scales war is feseable they just need to cover it as a RTS games focusing mainly on leaders strategies but also on the most Important (( squad micromanagements )) so people will be able to follow the bigest picture but also the game will be show and play as it should !