MAX vs. HA

[Comet]

Why would you spawn as heavy assault over just taking a MAX unit? I know its been mentioned in some threads that MAX's seem to be too prevalent.

The only thing I've really seen for pros for the HA is they are a bit faster and can capture nodes. Other than that, MAX usually wins out depending on the loadout.

Is it possible they will add a resource cost to the MAX in the future?

[Sick Boy]

well it gives you faster speed, ability to capture, also their AT weapons give them a fighting chance against a max if the HA has decent skills and uses his speed and cover to his advantage.

then again i would like a resource cost to using a max class.

[Renegadeknight]

versatility I suppose. Like you said they are faster, can hack and I think they can get into more vehicles(not sure if HA is restricted in this regard) . There is also the fact maxs don't have sights for their weapons, which may bother some people.

[Ghostwing]

yes, the max should have either a resource cost, a cooldown, or both.

[Vencher]

cant a heavy assault also hop in and drive vehicles...unlike a MAX?

[HeatLegend]

I was expecting the OP to see it the other way around; I expected to see you ask: Why pick MAX when you can go HA?

Then again I like surprises!

[Comet]

Ah yes, piloting vehicles, I didn't think of that.

From the comments in beta though, it seems that the advantages we have listed for HA aren't enough to stop people from MAX crashing everything.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

They're vastly different. That's like saying "Why drive a truck when you can drive a car?" Two different purposes, two different playstyles.

[Warborn]

cant a heavy assault also hop in and drive vehicles...unlike a MAX?

If you're going to pilot a vehicle you're probably going to be an engineer anyway, to repair yourself if need be. Piloting vehicles isn't a serious advantage for HA to have over MAXs.

Also, it being a team game, it's unlikely you will ever be without someone who can hack for you, if MAXs are indeed unable to hack. So that's not a real drawback either unless you were planning to play absolutely solo way off in the corner somewhere.

And as for versatility, MAXs can mix-and-match weapons. So pick one AI weapon and one AV weapon and presto, you're as versatile as HA is. Only you're also way more durable.

[Comet]

You mean like the differences we've already discussed OnexBig? Do you have any insight as to why you believe MAX's are being seen to the point where people believe they are OP in beta?

I'm just looking for genuine discussion on this topic, I'm not saying it should be one way or the other.

[AThreatToYou]

In no way are MAXs too prevalent. They could use a 2minute cooldown but they appear to be fine.

[Renegadeknight]

Maxes also are bigger targets. A HA could go take cover behind objects, a max just needs to stand there and take it. Also someone said something about engineers driving vehicles, what about just an ATV to move faster or a multi passenger vehicle. If I recall right the truck can only take one max so why not fill the rest with HA. The max would also be unable to gun since he has a special seat in the truck. Last as I said before HA have sights which may be more comfortable for people. A max is pretty much always hip firing. You guys look at it too much in terms of durability.

[RoninOni]

I'd say 5 min CD that can be certed down to 2 minutes. (for MAXes)

If you die in under 120 seconds as a MAX... not, you no get another. :D

Anyways, HA do have advantages.

They can be healed instead of repaired, which medics will be more common with foot assaults, you can hop into tanks or ride a quad. You get ADS and you have an overshield ability that makes you comparably durable.

[Comet]

I'm not actually sure if MAX's are too common or not but it has been suggested they are. They didn't seem too prevalent to me either from the videos I've seen, however, I'm not there either.

Good points brought up so far about the class.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

You mean like the differences we've already discussed OnexBig? Do you have any insight as to why you believe MAX's are being seen to the point where people believe they are OP in beta?

I'm just looking for genuine discussion on this topic, I'm not saying it should be one way or the other.

I'm not here to discuss why everyone is picking the cool robot suit with miniguns over the regular guy with a gun in the game they just started playing 5 minutes ago. I think that's pretty obvious. If you're trying to imply that there's a balance or population division problem, you're either talking out of your ass or breaking NDA, TBH, because there wouldn't really be a way of knowing anything regarding Max count or balance without breaking NDA or regurgitating someone else's NDA. As for the higby streams, I can't think of a time he was actually in a real battle and not just dicking around 200 yards from one.

However, as for differences, there are several.

a)Vehicle use.
b)Mobility - big difference here.
c)Certain weaponry differences.
d)Also, the fact that there are several infantry classes to divide the infantry population, but only one max suit, so HA will kind of blend in with these observations.
e)I'd have to imagine that out in the open MAX suits are a huge bullseye, especially with the ease I'd imagine aircraft and tanks hit them with.
f)All of the little gadgets and gizmos and the ease of hiding in a base that you're attacking/defending.

How is this all not completely obvious? Again, I won't be speaking to balance or actual population, just differences that we all know, because everyone here either has no real insight on that issue or they're breaking NDA.

[RoninOni]

HA RL's can also lock on to aircraft, giving them combined AT and AA with 1 weapon, while having AI with their primary weapon.

So an HA is actually more versatile in some senses...

MAXes on the other hand can be better specialized, with dual AT, or dual AA they can become serious mobile fire platforms..... but then you've compromised your ability to deal with other targets (which the HA never has to)

HA = general & all purpose ground fighter
MAX = customized anti-x weapon platform

[scroogh]

at a guess i'd say that the MAX will have a low skill floor but a low skill ceiling as well.

The Heavy Assault will be just the opposite I'm sure.

[Comet]

OnexBIg, You need to relax. This thread was made to only discuss the differences and how beneficial they can be. I'm not breaking any NDA (I'm not in beta), I am talking from a completely theoretical stand point and my only info comes from the streams and what people have leaked so take it all with a grain of salt. Just enjoy talking about the game. That's all we're doing.

Thanks for contribution to the thread and your thoughts on the classes.

[Nemises]

be interesting to see if there is a max spawn nerf...
In PS1 there was a cooldown wasn't there?

[psychobilly]

then again i would like a resource cost to using a max class.

Agreed. Max should have a low resource cost.

I doubt the impact of a full MAX crash will be seen until release.

[Comet]

If the differences between the two classes in this thread are enough to make each class strong in its own right, what would you all suggest as reasoning to add a cooldown to the MAX unit?

[VikingKong]

I'm sure I've heard them mention a resource cost, but I guess that may have fallen by the wayside.

[Tatwi]

I imagine this is would be hard for people to talk about without breaking an NDA. I would imagine.

[ringring]

be interesting to see if there is a max spawn nerf...
In PS1 there was a cooldown wasn't there?

There was, and the difference in movement speed seemed to be greater.

the movement speed thing was the reason I never really used maxes in ps1.


**edit: to be honest. I am not really taking any this empire is more powerful than that one, or the same on different classes seriously. You may be right but I'm sure the devs are lloking at all of this and they have a lot more data at their finger tips than we do.
Which is not to say that whatever buffs and nerfs they make will be acceptable but rather I'd rather allow them to do than and then complain later when NC Jhammer triple-shot inst-gib makes a return. :p

[vVRedOctoberVv]

That big Hebrew over there said it about as succinctly as possible. Aside from that, we'll have to wait and see.

[Symmenix]

On higby's streams, the in-game chat was saying that there were way too many MAXes out at one time, and that they needed a resource count.

Yeah, i agree with the beta testers.

[Ruffdog]

The more streams I see the less I am liking the HA.
He is a jack of all trades and I have never gone that way in games. In ps1, okay you had to or perish. After years and years it's hard not to be good at a lot of things.

PS2: Don't see many people driving or flying in RExo, ditto hacking unless they are on their own.

Do they have locked doors now? If so score +1 for HA if not score +1 for MAX

HA will be full on outstanding in ambushes in open areas. Medium range combat with AV that will trump MAX efforts imo

Resources notwithstanding though, when the occasion calls for lead, you'll see me in my firebat MAX:evil:

[MaxDamage]

Doors did seem to be a smart option with MAX units around.

I remember HA vs MAX threads in PS1.
Very dull.

I play MAX units, period. If they add ridiculous timers then that is penalising a legitimate style of play for no reason. HA have WAY more options, they just don't like HAVING to prepare for the possibility of MAX unit(s) showing up and spoiling their fun.

Smart HA troops carry good AV, this minimises effectiveness of MAX heroes dramatically; however if you have no counter measure, then welcome to MAX units.

You are not supposed to go toe-to-toe with a MAX unit.
It's the same with boxing, if your advantage is speed and quick jabs then get on with it - and don't get too cocky. With MAX units the disadvantages are obvious, and overzealous penetration of enemy forces means a heap of smoking metal and free points.

I am concerned about lack of doors, but I am unsure if MAXs have run mode. If not, it might be OK.

[Comet]

Yes MAX units have run mode.

[Crator]

I think each class has it's own pluses and minuses in different situations but don't see how MAXes would be less valid then HA (other then perhaps the restriction on not being able to drive vehicles and how fast they can run/maneuver)... But you also have to consider that the MAX has pluses over HA too such as more armor. It's all about the certifications folks. You'll be able to customize your load-outs for each class.

I'm pretty sure you can take capture points with the MAX in the game on the current build.

[FortySe7en]

The only thing I've really seen for pros for the HA is they are a bit faster and can capture nodes.


If that isn't enough reason to spawn HA, I don't see what is.


And as for versatility, MAXs can mix-and-match weapons. So pick one AI weapon and one AV weapon and presto, you're as versatile as HA is. Only you're also way more durable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4JJNpo6Vas

[adddemon]

I have asked the same question, the way i see it, there are going to be a whole lot of max users on release, a WHOLE lot. I will try and counter a few arguments i have seen in here about the max.

heavy assault can use lock on missiles.
We haven't seen flares yet from what i understand, and if flares work like they do in BF3, taking down a plane is a whole lot easier with flak than any amount of missiles will be.

mobility

Sure, when compared to classes like light assault, this is a good argument, they are defiantly not very mobile, but frankly, neither are heavy assault, and considering how much more squishy a heavy assault is, maxes have a way better chance of falling back from a bad situation than a heavy assault could ever have.

they can capture bases

You cant capture anything if your dead, let someone else capture the base while you kill everyone else. Its a team game after all, you shouldn't even try to capture a base alone, right?!?

People in this thread also seem to be forgetting that maxes can carry a mix of load outs, even if only one anti infantry gun is placed on them, they still have a weapon that is considerably better than the heavy assault, just watch some of the game play from the beta, you don't need to take my word for it, two of the same weapon is beyond overkill, that's why many maxes don't even bother!

I have seen footage from beta of maxes taking fire from 2-3 targets for over 20 seconds straight before being taken out. that's an insane TTK compared to every other class in the game right now. They need to be considered vehicles and come with the same limitations, otherwise they are going to be very popular, especially among newer players.

[Blackwolf]

I'm not here to discuss why everyone is picking the cool robot suit with miniguns over the regular guy with a gun in the game they just started playing 5 minutes ago. I think that's pretty obvious. If you're trying to imply that there's a balance or population division problem, you're either talking out of your ass or breaking NDA, TBH, because there wouldn't really be a way of knowing anything regarding Max count or balance without breaking NDA or regurgitating someone else's NDA. As for the higby streams, I can't think of a time he was actually in a real battle and not just dicking around 200 yards from one.

However, as for differences, there are several.

a)Vehicle use.
b)Mobility - big difference here.
c)Certain weaponry differences.
d)Also, the fact that there are several infantry classes to divide the infantry population, but only one max suit, so HA will kind of blend in with these observations.
e)I'd have to imagine that out in the open MAX suits are a huge bullseye, especially with the ease I'd imagine aircraft and tanks hit them with.
f)All of the little gadgets and gizmos and the ease of hiding in a base that you're attacking/defending.

How is this all not completely obvious? Again, I won't be speaking to balance or actual population, just differences that we all know, because everyone here either has no real insight on that issue or they're breaking NDA.

What he said.

MAX suits are always going to be a touchy subject for the sole reason that no body wants to die in the game. And MAX suits are as big a scape goat as they are a big infantry unit.

Unless you have actual insight into the game, don't comment. If you have actual insight into the game, comment on the official beta forums. Not here. Speculation based on videos is speculation based on very very weak evidence, almost non-existent.

[FortySe7en]

I have seen footage from beta of maxes taking fire from 2-3 targets for over 20 seconds straight before being taken out. that's an insane TTK compared to every other class in the game right now.

I heard that things in beta must be final because they aren't subject to change. Confirm/Deny?

[RoninOni]

I'm pretty sure you can take capture points with the MAX in the game on the current build.

:huh:

if so... FAIL... pretty sure you're wrong tho

I think a CD is the best way to go... If you die before the timer is up, it's hardly "penalizing" you for your style of play to make you play another class until the recharge is up.

Tankers and Pilots put up with cooldowns, and they aren't complaining... it's the risk of dying too fast.... and MAX suits would have shorter timers than anything else (save maybe quads :P )

There needs to be SOMETHING to limit MAXes.... otherwise why use anything else unless you plan on using vehicles?

The issue here is, should MAX be treated as "BASIC" infantry... I say no. They'll either be pointless oversized targets that die to fast to take advantage of their added armament, or they'll be OP compared to all the other basic infantry classes..

[Comet]

Blackwolf, please read what was also said before. We're just theorizing off of the little we have seen. We have already established this is just to keep us all entertained until we get beta.

If you want to talk MAX units, welcome. If you came to tell us all to be quiet, move along.

[RoninOni]

I heard that things in beta must be final because they aren't subject to change. Confirm/Deny?

Missing the point?

They SHOULD be able to take that kind of fire honestly, but give them a resource cost and a timer.


If you try and balance them with basic infantry without cost or timer, you'll have to nerf them into uselessness.

Letting them be OP infantry, but with an associated deploy cost and timer so you can't just respawn as a MAX every 20 seconds seems to me as the ONLY way to properly balance these things

[adddemon]

I heard that things in beta must be final because they aren't subject to change. Confirm/Deny?

so i guess we just shouldn't talk about it then?

what are you even trying to add to the discussion?

[adddemon]

Which is subject to change. The testers are doing a fantastic job of picking apart the game and trying to come up with some sort of balance. Best just to leave it to them.

It's much to early to tell what any class can do, especially when you have people like Higby announcing on stream about how broken Vanu is. I'm sure that every class will have its benefit, and I can almost assure you it won't turn into a MAX vs World type thing.


I hope it wont, they are an interesting dynamic to fighting in close quarters, and I would like them to stay around, I just don't want to see everyone using them all the time, ya know?

[FortySe7en]

I hope it wont, they are an interesting dynamic to fighting in close quarters, and I would like them to stay around, I just don't want to see everyone using them all the time, ya know?

I'm sure a lot will be done with balancing of them to make them fair and balanced. As it was said earlier, MAX's are designed to fight infantry, so they should have an advantage against most infantry units.

But there will also be benefits to playing HA, LA, Engi, and Medic. I can assure you that it won't just be everyone running around in MAX's. There is plenty of other stuff that classes will have to get some loving :)

[Blackwolf]

I hope it wont, they are an interesting dynamic to fighting in close quarters, and I would like them to stay around, I just don't want to see everyone using them all the time, ya know?

They won't. For one thing it's very boring to do nothing but MAX suiting. I've tried it a number of times in PS1. My "dedicated MAX user" character reached BR7 and I never played it again.

And judging by the videos, HA are tough bastards. Pretty much takes overwhelming firepower to take one out fast enough to prevent him from taking cover and getting healed up. Something MAX suits can't do as effectively.

[Comet]

I'm surprised how hostile some people get on a fan site with fans who like to talk about what they hve seen/heard/want for the game. Fact or not, we like to talk about what could be and what maybe is.

If you don't like the discussion, please refrain from posting and please let those who want to discuss the game do so without the negative comments. You think the post is stupid or pointless? Alright, feel free now to post in here again :)

[Piper]

This is one of those threads which the NDA really stomps on. :( Er....can't say a thing more than that sadly, not sure I should have said that. :p

But nothing wrong with those not under it speculating on what they've seen in the videos, nothing wrong at all. It's a discussion forum, might as well use it. :) Think everyone here is savvy enough to know that is all that is going on.

[Ghryphen]

I'm pretty sure you can take capture points with the MAX in the game on the current build.
:huh:

if so... FAIL... pretty sure you're wrong tho

Even if you have seen it in recent media, the devs already said during the E3 stream, where MAX's could drive and capture, these would not be things they could do in the final game. Doubt it is even remotely a consideration.

[Crator]

Oh yes, balance and stuff will change through-out beta. Most likely they could take it away if it's not right.

[FortySe7en]

Even if you have seen it in recent media, the devs already said during the E3 stream, where MAX's could drive and capture, these would not be things they could do in the final game. Doubt it is even remotely a consideration.

I believe they said something about having a pretty decent size CD on them as well.

I'm surprised how hostile some people get on a fan site with fans who like to talk about what they hve seen/heard/want for the game. Fact or not, we like to talk about what could be and what maybe is.

If you don't like the discussion, please refrain from posting and please let those who want to discuss the game do so without the negative comments. You think the post is stupid or pointless? Alright, feel free now to post in here again :)

I think its more about the fact that people in beta can't say anything because of the NDA. So when people see something come up in a thread like this and they can't say anything about it to correct the mis-information, it drives them insane :lol:

[Comet]

Yeah, I understand your point for sure Forty. We'll all see the light soon enough :)

[FortySe7en]

Yeah, I understand your point for sure Forty. We'll all see the light soon enough :)

Yeah sorry if I came off a little "off" there. Wasn't directed at you or anything. They just need to drop this NDA so I can start streaming....

Haha :rofl:

[Comet]

No hurt feelings, I understand :) I want you to be able to stream too - haha.

[Piper]

Group hug!

[RoninOni]

As long as discussions are more about how we want, or expect, the final release to be like, rather than discussing what's in beta (which most of us don't know anyways except what can be deduced from Higby streams) I think we'll be fine.


What I expect that MAX's will have no cost (tho I'd support one), a short CD (5min? maybe reduceable?) and will only be able to ride in large troop transports which would also have a limited # of slots for MAX passengers (last 2-4 seats depending on type and maybe customization).

I did see a MAX as a sunderer gunner in a stream... but I'm 90% sure it's just that the restriction isn't implemented yet.

[adddemon]

Group hug!

dont tempt me, lol

[Warborn]

[a stupid video]

Spend less time watching stupid YouTube videos, and more time watching the stream, and maybe you'll know what you're talking about next time. MAXs can pick any combination of weapons they want. Two AI, one AI and one AV, whatever. They are no less versatile than HA is, unless they choose to specialize and go with two of the same weapon, in which case they are no doubt far better than HA is at that particular function.

[Blackwolf]

Spend less time watching stupid YouTube videos, and more time watching the stream, and maybe you'll know what you're talking about next time. MAXs can pick any combination of weapons they want. Two AI, one AI and one AV, whatever. They are no less versatile than HA is, unless they choose to specialize and go with two of the same weapon, in which case they are no doubt far better than HA is at that particular function.

MAX suits are limited in mobility, can't repair themselves or revive others or perform any form of support role, can't hack consoles, can't climb into vehicles as gunners or passengers, and they can't crouch behind cover.

HA just can't perform support roles.

That's the difference in versatility here. Not what you can kill with what but what you can actually DO.

All MAX suits are specialists in taking and dealing damage. HA just aren't specialists.

[FortySe7en]

Spend less time watching stupid YouTube videos, and more time watching the stream, and maybe you'll know what you're talking about next time. MAXs can pick any combination of weapons they want. Two AI, one AI and one AV, whatever. They are no less versatile than HA is, unless they choose to specialize and go with two of the same weapon, in which case they are no doubt far better than HA is at that particular function.

Why would I watch the stream when I can play the game? You have no idea what you are talking about and so I have no choice but to leave you with yet another video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASb3G6QU2tk

[Blackwolf]

As a side note, and this is also from videos. MAX suits don't have shields, they just have a really big "health" bar. HA shields regenerate by themselves which reduces their need for support to medics only. MAX suits require an engineer for repairs and they don't have any means of keeping themselves alive by staying out of combat for a few seconds.

They have a lot of armor, but that is also their downfall as they are entirely dependent on supporting infantry. This follows tank warfare and tactics as well. Tanks without infantry support die quick.

[Arcsilver]

I think MAX should be like a vehicle. Have a cost and a cooldown.

[KuCooKaChu]

I'm pretty sure when they put in the HA specific weapons in the game you will think the HA is OP. Unless they are in the game already. I'm not in beta, but I feel pretty sure they are not in yet.

[RoninOni]

I'm pretty sure when they put in the HA specific weapons in the game you will think the HA is OP. Unless they are in the game already. I'm not in beta, but I feel pretty sure they are not in yet.
Those weapons will likely be dual-wieldable by the MAXes you know..........

[Phaaze]

I'm pretty sure when they put in the HA specific weapons in the game you will think the HA is OP. Unless they are in the game already. I'm not in beta, but I feel pretty sure they are not in yet.
Now that you mention it, I've yet to see any HA combat.

[Mongo]

Only thing I will say is that concerning is the global chat seen in streams gives us non testers a little insight into issues that testers are worried about namely that MAX's appear to be a problem.

It's beta so things will change but I can see this being a difficult issue to balance given that it's a touted class and you have a cert tree which lets you fine tune your characters - Why fine tune something that your limited in being allowed to play at a basic level (ie a whole player class).

IF there is an issue: which alot of people seem to be now saying their isnt (without breaking nda themselves or falling into the same bracket as not knowing wtf they are talking about either) I can possibly see it being hard to balance the Max 1v1 vs other classes and if it is superior then it's a no brainer and you can see why they may have a problem with Max numbers. As the core mechanic of the game is killing each other all the other stuff mentioned is fluff and side options.

[Renegadeknight]

Only thing I will say is that concerning is the global chat seen in streams gives us non testers a little insight into issues that testers are worried about namely that MAX's appear to be a problem.

It's beta so things will change but I can see this being a difficult issue to balance given that it's a touted class and you have a cert tree which lets you fine tune your characters - Why fine tune something that your limited in being allowed to play at a basic level (ie a whole player class).

IF there is an issue: which alot of people seem to be now saying their isnt (without breaking nda themselves or falling into the same bracket as not knowing wtf they are talking about either) I can possibly see it being hard to balance the Max 1v1 vs other classes and if it is superior then it's a no brainer and you can see why they may have a problem with Max numbers. As the core mechanic of the game is killing each other all the other stuff mentioned is fluff and side options.
The core mechanic is taking bases, this isn't a death match. Killing people is just a means to an end. Also you guys do realize what kind of garbage global chat can become. It's beta so it may not be bad at all, but I still wouldn't take anything said in it to heart.

[Mongo]

Core mechanic is PvP mate, everything is like I said fluff and methods to enhance this, If the core mechanic was taking bases then that would be the only place people would fight, bases or whatever enhance the mechanic of the killing of each other :)

I agree that everything in beta or what you hear about beta should be taken with a pinch of salt, but this is a discussion board and not a twitter or news feed like some seem to think, we need to talk about something relating to it! :D

[MaxDamage]

They are called MAXs for a reason.

Ever hear of a decimator?
Ever hear of AV?
Phoenix launchers that can fire around multiple corners to kill MAXs..
Fire and forget Strikers..
Whatever the damn VS AV sniper weapon is that kills MAXs ridiculously fast..

Yeah, I don't know how many of these weapons are in the game but the devs know what's up.

MAX units are a legitimate full-time playstyle with obvious weaknesses.
Because of the cool factor, they may be flavour of the month so you may die to a few more than usual - but it'll pass once people get frustrated with the limitations.

Either learn your AV or shaddap.

[Scotsh]

It seems to me that the OP started a discussion about MAXes in the current build of the beta.
Thats kinda pointless, because people that do know about that are not free to post their opinion (NDA)
And people not in beta apply the perspective of PS1, which is really not useful, because even in the official released videos it's obvious that there are core differences between both games.

[Timujingeo]

Max's were never a problem in PS1 unless you had two locked down either side of the control console being healed by a couple of medics.
But then that's what thumper plasma bounced in the doors is there for... :D
Outdoors or indoors Max's were pretty much boomer fodder for a good engie stealther.

[Harasus]

I have not read a lot, but the MAX is probably restricted to once every few minutes, and it will probably cost resources.

[Renegadeknight]

Core mechanic is PvP mate, everything is like I said fluff and methods to enhance this, If the core mechanic was taking bases then that would be the only place people would fight, bases or whatever enhance the mechanic of the killing of each other :)

I agree that everything in beta or what you hear about beta should be taken with a pinch of salt, but this is a discussion board and not a twitter or news feed like some seem to think, we need to talk about something relating to it! :D
Well I actually meant territory, bit of a slip of the tongue. What I'm trying to say is at the end of the day how much of your color controls the map is more important than k/d(atleast in the overall team aspect since some people will obvious be more concerned with their own stats than their empires success.) Also I do agree that discussing such things is good, but some people come off as if they can say things with absolute certainty. Most of us haven't even seen the maxs personally and are already saying they are op and need to be fixed.

[Pyreal]

MAXs are cool and unique, and you don't see them in FPSs. Please don't cry and whine and have them nerfed somehow.

If a player wants to play in a MAX and has a good time, let 'em be!


Don't make this game more like your average "Modern Shooter" by diminishing MAX units.

[Boone]

MAXs are cool and unique, and you don't see them in FPSs. Please don't cry and whine and have them nerfed somehow.

If a player wants to play in a MAX and has a good time, let 'em be!


Don't make this game more like your average "Modern Shooter" by diminishing MAX units.

I don't think people really care how tough they are..I think most just want a timer or some sort to spawn them so we don't see 100 of them drop pod in, because that's just dumb.

[Gugabalog]

I don't think people really care how tough they are..I think most just want a timer or some sort to spawn them so we don't see 100 of them drop pod in, because that's just dumb.

I now feel compelled to organize a 100 max drop. You will rue the day you posted this!!!

[Harasus]

MAXs are cool and unique, and you don't see them in FPSs. Please don't cry and whine and have them nerfed somehow.

Yeah, let us implement invincible aliens too! They are cool and unique, and you do not see them in FPSs. Please do not cry and whine and have them nerfed somehow, for heaven forbid, you might do something other FPS games have!

I don't think people really care how tough they are..I think most just want a timer or some sort to spawn them so we don't see 100 of them drop pod in, because that's just dumb.

Essentially. Although, outfits will always organise and save their daily (or something) MAX for a big coordinated attack. ;)

[Lord Paladin]

I imagine a lot of the people who "bought" their way into the beta just haven't figured out that you don't just run and gun down a MAX. They're tough, but once you figure out the proper tactics for killing them, they're really only mean if you're trying to run up a hill by yourself and it's sitting at the top firing down at you.

So yes, MAXes would be like storming the beaches at Normandy, but thankfully we have other avenues to kill them. I mean, you can literally run circles around them and they could never hit you. A few good rocket shots from an HA and it's just another spot on the road. Plus you see an AV lightning come in and it's gonna kill that nice little group of MAXs that decided to go AA/AV combo to be versatile. Or a reaver/mossie/scythe is gonna do a fly-by and rocket the lot of them while the HA's pop their shields and take cover.

PLUS, you're really gonna hate a MAX when you have to spawn at that galaxy at the bottom of the ravine and run for 5 minutes just to rejoin the fight.

[Blackwolf]

I don't think people really care how tough they are..I think most just want a timer or some sort to spawn them so we don't see 100 of them drop pod in, because that's just dumb.

Wow. Yanno boone if you slapped a 5 hour timer on them, that wouldn't stop the scenario you don't want to see...

That is how stupid the timer suggestion is.

MAX suits are fine. They do their job effectively and are probably the only things that can actually move infantry combat. In fact I like these MAX suits far better then the PS1 MAX suits. These ones actually look and feel like walking tanks.

Disclaimer: No I'm not in beta. The above statement was made after watching the beta streams. Yes I think anyone who isn't blind could come to the same conclusion. Yes I think most people really are blind with bias.

[OnexBigxHebrew]

The core mechanic is taking bases, this isn't a death match. Killing people is just a means to an end. Also you guys do realize what kind of garbage global chat can become. It's beta so it may not be bad at all, but I still wouldn't take anything said in it to heart.

This shit right here. MAX's only offer support through killing. Very limited role IMO.

Judging a game by its global chat is like judging a movie by the mouth-breathing neckbeards in its autograph line at comicon.

[Blackwolf]

This shit right here. MAX's only offer support through killing. Very limited role IMO.

Judging a game by its global chat is like judging a movie by the mouth-breathing neckbeards in its autograph line at comicon.

Awesome.

[Mongo]

Interesting thing is going down this silly route of classes means you have to have reasonable balance. Problem here is your trying to balance a Unit as a class that was on a timer and was superior to infantry, that you can respawn as regularly - Im really interested to see how they do this personally!

[Boone]

Wow. Yanno boone if you slapped a 5 hour timer on them, that wouldn't stop the scenario you don't want to see...

That is how stupid the timer suggestion is.

MAX suits are fine. They do their job effectively and are probably the only things that can actually move infantry combat. In fact I like these MAX suits far better then the PS1 MAX suits. These ones actually look and feel like walking tanks.

Disclaimer: No I'm not in beta. The above statement was made after watching the beta streams. Yes I think anyone who isn't blind could come to the same conclusion. Yes I think most people really are blind with bias.

Will Outfits likely drop in with just MAX? Ok, sure they will, however people won't just be able to respawn, respawn, respawn, respawn, respawn, MAXs if there was a timer on them when trying to defend bases, etc. I guess we'll see, but don't be suprised to hear more bitching about it.

Maybe the timer wouldn't stop the scenario I suggested, but it sure would eliminate a lot of other annoying scenarios where it can/will be abused. I can live with it either way to be honest only because I don't care that much either way..most people are going to hate it.

We know though that PS1 players just want PS1 re-skinned at this point basically.

[Renegadeknight]

Will Outfits likely drop in with just MAX? Ok, sure they will, however people won't just be able to respawn, respawn, respawn, respawn, respawn, MAXs if there was a timer on them when trying to defend bases, etc. I guess we'll see, but don't be suprised to hear more bitching about it.

Maybe the timer wouldn't stop the scenario I suggested, but it sure would eliminate a lot of other annoying scenarios where it can/will be abused. I can live with it either way to be honest only because I don't care that much either way..most people are going to hate it.

Don't see what other scenario a timer would prevent other than a large amount of maxs(which it really wouldn't). And how do you know the opinion of everyone? All beta testers are under NDA, anyone complaining/worried or defending maxs don't actually know anything solid and as I said before global chat is usually full of garbage.

[Boone]

Don't see what other scenario a timer would prevent other than a large amount of maxs(which it really wouldn't). And how do you know the opinion of everyone? All beta testers are under NDA, anyone complaining/worried or defending maxs don't actually know anything solid and as I said before global chat is usually full of garbage.

Ok..

50 people defending a base, when they die they continue to spawn MAX over and over (squad spawning). How would a timer not fix this? I'm pretty sure we can discuss anything in the videos seeing as they streamed it themselves.

I guess what I'm saying is I really don't care to see MAX vs MAX fights around bases because that's what it will likely turn into. Why spawn anything else? You're right though, there is so much we don't know that it's all bullshit anyway.

I could care less either way. I just think it would probably be better and really don't feel like hearing about it/fixing it later on when it was (if) it is an issue.

Where did you get the impression I was speaking for everyone. . . .?

[Renegadeknight]

Ok..

50 people defending a base, when they die they continue to spawn MAX over and over. How would a timer not fix this? I'm pretty sure we can discuss anything in the videos seeing as they streamed it themselves.

I guess what I'm saying is I really don't care to see MAX vs MAX fights around bases because that's what it will likely turn into. Why spawn anything else? You're right though, there is so much we don't know that it's all bullshit anyway.

I could care less either way. I just think it would probably be better.

Where did you get the impression I was speaking for everyone. . . .?
If said 50 maxes are defending a base and it is truly so difficult to take down one, the others could hold until the dead ones re spawn and the process repeats itself. As for video, sure that could be discussed but from my understanding most of this is about global chat occurring during it. Have you every stopped to read some of the shit on global chat is games. And last thing I'm going to say is people need to stop believing maxs are gods. They are slow and I recall seeing someone kite one about as light assault(was a while back). They are big slow moving targets. The only time a max would every be extremely dominating is in tight inclosed spaces which is obviously because mobility no longer matters, which is the maxes main disadvantage in combat. Bases in this game are generally pretty open so mobility should still come into play. Let use not also forget the maxs inability to hack, use vehicles and use iron sights/scopes(you are pretty much hip firing the entire time).

[Boone]

If said 50 maxes are defending a base and it is truly so difficult to take down one, the others could hold until the dead ones re spawn and the process repeats itself. As for video, sure that could be discussed but from my understanding most of this is about global chat occurring during it. Have you every stopped to read some of the shit on global chat is games. And last thing I'm going to say is people need to stop believing maxs are gods. They are slow and I recall seeing someone kite one about as light assault(was a while back). They are big slow moving targets. The only time a max would every be extremely dominating is in tight inclosed spaces which is obviously because mobility no longer matters, which is the maxes main disadvantage in combat. Bases in this game are generally pretty open so mobility should still come into play. Let use not also forget the maxs inability to hack, use vehicles and use iron sights/scopes(you are pretty much hip firing the entire time).

True, but a timer of some sort would cut this down. Say, 5 minutes..I don't know? Of course if you stay alive 5+ min you would have no spawn timer, but I'm more thinking about ppl who just spawn/die/spawn/die. I don't think MAX should be nerfed (hard to say right now) because they are supposed to be big ass heavy hitters, I just don't want to see that as the "base" fighting mechanic I guess where it comes down to 30 MAX, 10 engineers or something (engis repair the MAX not medic I beleive?).

I do try to pay attention to chat some just to see if I can get some insight regarding stuff that has been missed or what people are complaining about, but you have to be able to sift through all the bs and whining.

The reason I say this is cause for example (DUST 514) atm you can spawn any vehicle with no issue. Well, what you have is people just spawning vehicles for transportion only or just running around slamming on people. It's kind of stupid, just don't want to see that happen with MAX where it becomes "Ok, in the base, everyone spawn MAX" or something of the sorts.