MAX Abilities

[Drecho]

Haven't been able to find anything on the MAX abilities recently.

Anyone know if they have said anything about the abilities themselves or if they will be faction specific or common pool?

[Crator]

From the PS2 Info Thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=37350): (I didn't list all the max stuff here from the info thread. Go check it out for yourself if interested in more details)

• Maxes can switch out weapons, abilities, and utilities (some are common pool, some are not)

• There will be a max killer class
• Auto-run for MAX is still in
• MAXes are maybe on timers
• MAXes cost no resources

[Drecho]

From the PS2 Info Thread (http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=37350): (I didn't list all the max stuff here from the info thread. Go check it out for yourself if interested in more details)

• Maxes can switch out weapons, abilities, and utilities (some are common pool, some are not)

• There will be a max killer class
• Auto-run for MAX is still in
• MAXes are maybe on timers
• MAXes cost no resources

Yeah I saw all that :3 I'm trying to find anything else such as Lockdown and special abilities that weren't listed on that thread.

[Crator]

Sorry... There may be other outside resources but I'm not sure. Did you check the PC Gamer mag for any details? I think they had some neat stuff in there.

[Majik]

Have to say I was dissappointed to see that they seem to have ripped the jumpjets off the VS max and given them to light assaults. That was what made our maxes special and fun.

Of course they gave the NC shield to the heavy assaults.....Maybe they should make the Infiltrators lockdown to fire sniper :-D

[SixShooter]

Have to say I was dissappointed to see that they seem to have ripped the jumpjets off the VS max and given them to light assaults. That was what made our maxes special and fun.

Of course they gave the NC shield to the heavy assaults.....Maybe they should make the Infiltrators lockdown to fire sniper :-D

Since jump jets won't be returning to the VS Max, we should have some kind of alien acid spit with DOT that slowly reduces enemy armor to smoldering liquefied puddles... I can dream can't I? :)

*edit*
On a side note; the pictures of the TR Max shows that it has spikes on the back of it's legs. I hope that means a return of the lockdown ability for them.

[Crator]

The LA jump jets are more fun imo. And everyone gets them, not just VS.

[Rivenshield]

Have to say I was dissappointed to see that they seem to have ripped the jumpjets off the VS max and given them to light assaults. That was what made our maxes special and fun.
As a loyal Terran who profoundly despises the Sneaky Alien Bastard Empire, allow me to agree. Vanu MAXes should be able to jump. Having it otherwise is strange and unnatural and messes with tradition.

Solution? Allow Vanoobs to *cert* jump jets of varying effectiveness, ranging from a gentle slow-motion jump to being able to go in at the same speed as light assault... but at the cost of half your armament. You want that mobility, you lose the guns offa one arm. That too is traditional, no? ;)

On a side note; the pictures of the TR Max shows that it has spikes on the back of it's legs. I hope that means a return of the lockdown ability for them.
Me too, even if you have to cert it.

[RoninOni]

I could see VS MAXes getting short use (prolly longish CD) jump jet, NC a type of shield, and TR the lockdown ability.

IMO VS would get an unfair advantage out of that bargain, but w/e

[Kipper]

I don't see why you couldn't allow all three empires to choose modules for jump, lockdown or shield (or other things) if they cert for it and they sacrifice an upgrade slot for it.

Obviously VS would have beam weapons with no drop off, NC would have a heavier armour and TR would have a faster firing ability as is their faction trait?

IMO, you want your faction choice to be based on what you like about them visually and idealistically, with a just little bit of play style thrown in - otherwise you risk many, many arguments over balance and whether jump is OP compared to shield etc - which it clearly would be for some people and the other way around for others depending on how they play.

[Salad Snake]

I know MAX's can't actually jump, but can they at least step over, say, railings and steps? It'd be annoying for them to constantly get stopped by curbs and such.

[Renegadeknight]

Pretty sure one of the videos I seen said that the NC's shield and the TR's lockdown were in along with other abilities that could be changed out that they didn't mention. They also said that there would be faction specific ones, but they hadn't decided yet. This was a while back, I'll try to find the video(It might be out of date now however, haven't heard anything else though that mentioned maxs though.)

edit-it's from totalbiscuit during the alpha
Planetside 2 - The MAX Unit - YouTube

[MaxDamage]

Of course MAXs will be on timers.
I play MAX almost exclusively and I agree with the timer system in Planetside 1.

And what do you mean MAXs can't jump (statement I'm referring to wasn't about VS MAX flight)?!
They can jump in PS1.

[Blackwolf]

Of course MAXs will be on timers.
I play MAX almost exclusively and I agree with the timer system in Planetside 1.

And what do you mean MAXs can't jump (statement I'm referring to wasn't about VS MAX flight)?!
They can jump in PS1.

1) This isn't PS1.

2) Timers aren't currently in yet and serve little to no purpose regardless. Speaking as someone who is not a big fan of using them, but is a big fan of their uses and concept.

I'd say that without the ability to pull 1 of 3 types of MAX suits (they are all one unit), the timer would be too restrictive.

[RoninOni]

1) This isn't PS1.

2) Timers aren't currently in yet and serve little to no purpose regardless. Speaking as someone who is not a big fan of using them, but is a big fan of their uses and concept.

I'd say that without the ability to pull 1 of 3 types of MAX suits (they are all one unit), the timer would be too restrictive.

:huh: I don't... that's kinda the whole point.

Now, you could run up to a terminal and swap your gear... sure.

But nah, MAXes are special units and should be treated as such. A timer is a pretty fine way to do that.

5min reducable to 2min through certs (3 levels) seams reasonable enough to me. If you need to spam MAXes more than once every 2 min, then I suggest you don't throw yourself out there so fast, and maybe get some HA practice. An engineer buddy wouldn't be amiss either. Maybe you can even take turns!

That'll eat up your timer won't it? :groovy:

[Salad Snake]

Personally I don't really like the timer thing, it's just not a very elegant solution, but I don't see any other obvious way to balance them. You could put a resource cost on them (and I feel like that'd be much more "realistic" feeling), but that really wouldn't reduce their use, just means the same player can't use a MAX over & over again unless they're rolling in resources, they'll still be far too many in the total group of players.

Do MAX's get directional damage? Do they get headshot? And what is this MAX-killer class suppose to be? Hopefully not a MAX-variant, balancing a class or weapon with itself is almost always not enough to make it "actually" balanced.

I feel the MAX should be a unit with a clearly-defined strength, which it already has, and a clear weakness. So if a player feels like using a MAX 2 or 3 lives in a row they can (freedom of choice would be the most fun for the player), but at the same time introduce something that's pretty effective to extremely effective at fighting MAX's so the player is eventually forced out of the MAX not due to hard limits (the game telling him "no"), but because the enemy adapted and it stopped being effective (the player's own choice). It'd be better if the player felt that they made the decision themselves to stop using MAX's.

As a second main design objective, make the MAX's fun to fight as well, especially for the anti-MAX class/weapon/loadout. I imagine that the problem with MAX's is similar to the problem the Heavy used to have in TF2; bland to play (especially for a long time), not fun to fight for just about everyone, and way too effective in large numbers even though they're balanced in moderate ones.

[Blackwolf]

:huh: I don't... that's kinda the whole point.

Now, you could run up to a terminal and swap your gear... sure.

But nah, MAXes are special units and should be treated as such. A timer is a pretty fine way to do that.

5min reducable to 2min through certs (3 levels) seams reasonable enough to me. If you need to spam MAXes more than once every 2 min, then I suggest you don't throw yourself out there so fast, and maybe get some HA practice. An engineer buddy wouldn't be amiss either. Maybe you can even take turns!

That'll eat up your timer won't it? :groovy:

Let's explain this a different way.

Why not put timers on HA and LA? They are special infantry types as well you know. LA has jump jets and HA has shields. Engineers are special too because they can drop turrets, mines, and supply boxes. And what about medic? Too many of those on the field means you'll never get through infantry formations.

The MAX suit is a specialized form of infantry, their advantage is superior armor. Their firepower is probably about the same as any other infantry in the game The only difference between them and infantry is that it's easier to stay alive a bit longer in one, thus allowing for a higher KDR which is pointless in PS1 and 2. Because the game is not built around killing the enemy.

The MAX suit doesn't need a stupid timer. It needs to be balanced relative to infantry and vehicles in a combat situation. And right now they appear to work just fine. They actually go down from small arms fire in this game.

And yes MAX suits are infantry and will suffer from head shots. Snipers can kill them in 2 to 3 shots if they aim right.

[RoninOni]

The other infantry units are standard classes.

MAXes are SUPPOSED to be stronger and tougher than any other Infantry.

SO either they have to balance MAX entirely with the other infantry (likely making them to weak in the process) OR they can have some other drawback to counter balance their greater survivability and armament.

Personally, I'd rather see MAXes set up to be stronger with a counter balance.

TBQH: I would have suggested a default of 10 min and reduceable to 5min but figured too many people would QQ about it so settled on a far less intrusive 5/2min CD which is pretty damn insignificant IMO...

I mean really... if you want to focus on MAX, and you can't stay alive for 2 min... then you have no right to complain about not getting another IMO.

That is my opinion, but I think it's more than valid.

[Renegadeknight]

A maxs main weakness is it's slow movement, large size and inability to duck. I'm assuming that they will have difficulty moving through open areas, but also destroying in close quarters. Alot of the bases in ps2 are very open so this should give standard infantry an advantage. I can't say for certain that it will perform like this since I haven't played yet and haven't gotten to see one in action. For all I know they could be completely overpowered or extremely underpowered. We haven't seen them so all of this is just speculation until we play.

[RoninOni]

w/e

Our discussion here is really meaningless.

I expect we will see either some CD or some Resource cost (perhaps even both) applied to MAX spawning before release... but maybe we won't.

Time will tell.

[Blackwolf]

TBQH: I would have suggested a default of 10 min and reduceable to 5min but figured too many people would QQ about it so settled on a far less intrusive 5/2min CD which is pretty damn insignificant IMO...


That statement right there shows how ineffective you are as a couch developer when it comes to balance.

You don't seem to look at the whole picture, you focus on one specific item and one thing that it interacts with. You ignore the fact that vehicles will play a much bigger role in base take overs and that MAX suits will spend a lot of time outdoors as well as indoors.

You also fail to realize the MAX suits own built in weaknesses which will have dramatic consequences on their survivability.

The MAX suit is an infantry class, just like HA and LA. It is not "special" just because it has superior armor (again, HA has superior armor as well). It's firepower is equal to any other infantry unit and it's purpose is to absorb more damage so that the infantry can do their jobs. It has a role side by side with infantry just like any other infantry class has. Calling it anything else is just an attempt to nerf the thing before you even have to face off with it.

And the timer idea is stupid to begin with. This is nothing but an irritation, something the DEVs need to fight tooth and nail to avoid having in their game. In fact I'd say remove the timers from vehicles as well. Resources work a lot better then timers for controlling their numbers and making them valuable assets. Timers only serve to annoy players and it doesn't stop a lot of the things most players are afraid of, like MAX crashes. It's an outdated and obsolete balancing tool that was only used in PS1 because nothing else was available to curb the use of vehicles and MAX suits.

If MAX suits were given a resource, fine. I really doubt this will be the case because they are an infantry class. But at least the resource cost is a softer cap on the MAX suit then a stupid annoying irritating timer that can do more to drive players away from using the suit entirely it can to balance it out.

[Gonzo]

I don't think that the MAX's firepower will be "equal to any other infantry unit" like you keep saying. The MAX AI weapons will outclass most infantry weapons, and aside from HA, MAXs are the only other class that can equip AV weapons. MAX AV weapons also have much better firerate than the single-shot launchers available to HA. Of course, if a max splits it's weapon types, which may end up fairly common, it will lessen its advantages. But I expect a full AI MAX to easily outgun other infantry classes at shorter ranges.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I don't think MAXs need a timer, necessarily, since there are no longer 3 of them. I don't see a problem with them having a resource cost. They are not "terminators" (spoken as someone who plays MAXs a lot). They have plenty of inherent disadvantages, in both PS1 and PS2.

Regarding what the thread OP was actually about...

I haven't seen anything about MAX abilities, either. The TR is obviously going to have lockdown (either by default or as a cert) but no idea about the others yet.

[scroogh]

That statement right there shows how ineffective you are as a couch developer when it comes to balance.

You don't seem to look at the whole picture, you focus on one specific item and one thing that it interacts with. You ignore the fact that vehicles will play a much bigger role in base take overs and that MAX suits will spend a lot of time outdoors as well as indoors.

You also fail to realize the MAX suits own built in weaknesses which will have dramatic consequences on their survivability.

The MAX suit is an infantry class, just like HA and LA. It is not "special" just because it has superior armor (again, HA has superior armor as well). It's firepower is equal to any other infantry unit and it's purpose is to absorb more damage so that the infantry can do their jobs. It has a role side by side with infantry just like any other infantry class has. Calling it anything else is just an attempt to nerf the thing before you even have to face off with it.

And the timer idea is stupid to begin with. This is nothing but an irritation, something the DEVs need to fight tooth and nail to avoid having in their game. In fact I'd say remove the timers from vehicles as well. Resources work a lot better then timers for controlling their numbers and making them valuable assets. Timers only serve to annoy players and it doesn't stop a lot of the things most players are afraid of, like MAX crashes. It's an outdated and obsolete balancing tool that was only used in PS1 because nothing else was available to curb the use of vehicles and MAX suits.

If MAX suits were given a resource, fine. I really doubt this will be the case because they are an infantry class. But at least the resource cost is a softer cap on the MAX suit then a stupid annoying irritating timer that can do more to drive players away from using the suit entirely it can to balance it out.

This person, this person right here gets it.

When you're fighting a MAX and it kills you are you really going to say to your self "Well it's on a timer, so that's balanced" No, because it being on a timer means fuck all when you're actually fighting one.

The real way to balance the MAX unit is to chip away and add on to its different parts of its versatility. What I mean to say is if a MAX player is rocking anti-infantry and anti-air. You better get a damn tank because if you do the MAX player is boned. Especially if they're specialized with 2 of the same weapon.

Edit: And I'm just saying IF the balance is required, that's the way to do it. I have no way of knowing the state of balance anyway.

[Salad Snake]

Personally I don't really like the timer thing, it's just not a very elegant solution, but I don't see any other obvious way to balance them. You could put a resource cost on them (and I feel like that'd be much more "realistic" feeling), but that really wouldn't reduce their use, just means the same player can't use a MAX over & over again unless they're rolling in resources, they'll still be far too many in the total group of players.

Do MAX's get directional damage? Do they get headshot? And what is this MAX-killer class suppose to be? Hopefully not a MAX-variant, balancing a class or weapon with itself is almost always not enough to make it "actually" balanced.

I feel the MAX should be a unit with a clearly-defined strength, which it already has, and a clear weakness. So if a player feels like using a MAX 2 or 3 lives in a row they can (freedom of choice would be the most fun for the player), but at the same time introduce something that's pretty effective to extremely effective at fighting MAX's so the player is eventually forced out of the MAX not due to hard limits (the game telling him "no"), but because the enemy adapted and it stopped being effective (the player's own choice). It'd be better if the player felt that they made the decision themselves to stop using MAX's.

As a second main design objective, make the MAX's fun to fight as well, especially for the anti-MAX class/weapon/loadout. I imagine that the problem with MAX's is similar to the problem the Heavy used to have in TF2; bland to play (especially for a long time), not fun to fight for just about everyone, and way too effective in large numbers even though they're balanced in moderate ones.


Anybody? Does the MAX take directional damage or get headshot?

[RoninOni]

wtf ever.

I'm not going to deal with you just cause you want to spawn as a MAX every single time.

The MAX can equip itself to be an AA or AV MACHINE. In a way no other infantry class can even come CLOSE to matching. It can pump out AV damage at a rate to make the HA's hang their heads in shame and hang up their RL's. Their AA flak cannons are FAR more effective than lock on with the HA RL. and when outfitted with AI guns they put out a DECIMATING amount of fire.

They can also equip 1 each AI/AV and will still be more effective at laying out punishment to both Inf and Tanks than an HA can do without even needing to swap weapons.

Yes, they can't avoid damage as well, but they can take a lot more in turn, and when supported with engineers will be a truly tank worthy infantry unit in a manner no other class even comes close to rivaling.

But no, they need no other counter balances whatsoever :roll: No, there aren't loads of people complaining that MAXes are FAR too prevalent in every fight, no not at all.

Argue with me all you want. When the patches come down the line as the game nears release, we'll see who has the last laugh.

Ultimately it's up to SOE, not us... and personally I have faith that MAXes will see either a resource cost or a timer associated with them before beta is finished. You don't. We'll see who's right now won't we

:groovy:

[scroogh]

wtf ever.

I'm not going to deal with you just cause you want to spawn as a MAX every single time.

The MAX can equip itself to be an AA or AV MACHINE. In a way no other infantry class can even come CLOSE to matching. It can pump out AV damage at a rate to make the HA's hang their heads in shame and hang up their RL's. Their AA flak cannons are FAR more effective than lock on with the HA RL. and when outfitted with AI guns they put out a DECIMATING amount of fire.

They can also equip 1 each AI/AV and will still be more effective at laying out punishment to both Inf and Tanks than an HA can do without even needing to swap weapons.

Yes, they can't avoid damage as well, but they can take a lot more in turn, and when supported with engineers will be a truly tank worthy infantry unit in a manner no other class even comes close to rivaling.

But no, they need no other counter balances whatsoever :roll: No, there aren't loads of people complaining that MAXes are FAR too prevalent in every fight, no not at all.

Argue with me all you want. When the patches come down the line as the game nears release, we'll see who has the last laugh.

Ultimately it's up to SOE, not us... and personally I have faith that MAXes will see either a resource cost or a timer associated with them before beta is finished. You don't. We'll see who's right now won't we

:groovy:

And how exactly is adding a timer going to help in so far as balance goes? Is it going to help because AFTER you kill the MAX you won't have to deal with that particular guy playing as max for 5 minutes or so? I'd really like to know how adding a timer has more pros than cons.

Anybody? Does the MAX take directional damage or get headshot?

In some alpha footage I saw total biscuit confirmed that max units do indeed receive additional damage from head shots. Part of an e3 stream.

[Noon]

I'm pretty much tapped on Max info, since I've spent most of my free time reading up on the Medic :rock:.

One thing I have noticed though, and kinda hoped for; is that terrain will be a issue for MAX's. No reason those massive killing machines should be able to maneuver as nimbly as someone without.

And I am betting the Engineer will probably get something that will F'up enemy MAX's. Just seems appropriate for them to be able to (build em up, and break em down).

[Salad Snake]

In some alpha footage I saw total biscuit confirmed that max units do indeed receive additional damage from head shots. Part of an e3 stream.
Ah, well there's a potential weakness right there; snipers. That can spell doom for a MAX outside. Now, for indoor combat....perhaps an explosive weapon that has a sub-par splash but is armor-piercing? I'm thinking something you switch grenades out for.


I'm okay with a timer, but again, I think it's just not an elegant solution. I think a balance can be made that preserves player freedom of choice.

[MaxDamage]

Ah, well there's a potential weakness right there; snipers. That can spell doom for a MAX outside. Now, for indoor combat....perhaps an explosive weapon that has a sub-par splash but is armor-piercing? I'm thinking something you switch grenades out for.


I'm okay with a timer, but again, I think it's just not an elegant solution. I think a balance can be made that preserves player freedom of choice.

It's so weird reading replies from people who are unfamiliar with Planetside 1 trying to think up solutions that already exist.

1 word: Decimator.

[Blackwolf]

I don't think that the MAX's firepower will be "equal to any other infantry unit" like you keep saying. The MAX AI weapons will outclass most infantry weapons, and aside from HA, MAXs are the only other class that can equip AV weapons. MAX AV weapons also have much better firerate than the single-shot launchers available to HA. Of course, if a max splits it's weapon types, which may end up fairly common, it will lessen its advantages. But I expect a full AI MAX to easily outgun other infantry classes at shorter ranges.

Anti-Infantry (the part of the MAX suit that causes the most damage and fear among players) will be exactly equal to the HA infantry class. The damage from a single shot of it's AV will also equal the damage of the HA infantry class. It will outclass the HA in RoF with AV, but not with AI weaponry. It also adds considerable firepower above and beyond HA weapons when it comes to AA work.

In other words MAX suits do their best work as AA units supporting infantry and vehicles. This was how they worked best in PS1, especially the TR Burster which was an absolute beast.

The problem with PS1's balance was that the AV MAX suits were pretty much a joke. They could tear a vehicle apart, but like most other "AV" in the game, the vehicle they targeted could tear them apart a LOT faster. AV MAX suits were a joke and were essentially used as secondary AI suits. AI suits were feared, especially the NC Scattermax. But when it came to infantry combat, they died quickly (well short of the 2 minute mark most of the time) because of the Decimator and the fact that most PS1 infantry certed Rexo HA/AV and carried at least 1 Decimator (many carried 2). This was a weapon that could kill a MAX suit in 2 shots and could do it with minimal risk to the infantry using it.

PS2 MAX suits appear to be a bit tougher, but I doubt they will stand a chance once effective counter measures become common knowledge. Most of what I've seen says that a single HA can tear a good deal of health out of a MAX suit with just their LMG weapon. I can't get an idea of how much damage an AV weapon does against them since I haven't seen friendly MAX suits hit by them in the videos.

Yes the MAX suit can double up on weapons. What does it actually allow? Kill rates of .2 seconds instead of .4 against infantry? Is that really a noticeable difference in firepower? Dual AI guns won't be effective for anything other then sustained suppression fire (unloading one gun, then unload the second while the first reloads). Best combination for pure AI work would be the AI weapon and a freaking flamethrower for close cluster effs. Or AI/AV so that you can counter other MAX suits as well as infantry.

I'll add that I doubt the HA's big guns have been released yet. We've seen a single shot RL for each empire and an LMG but no sign of the MCG, Jackhammer, or Lasher. Nor have we seen any sign of the ES AV weapons like the Striker, Phoenix, and Lancer. I say this based on the fact that, while effect, those LMGs are not "HA" grade weaponry as it was known in PS1. They match the firepower of PS1 and PS2 MAX suits pretty well though. Same goes for those RLs. Effective, but no where near as effective as the ES AV weapons, and very common pool at that (they all do the same thing, fire 1 round and lock onto air targets).

In other words, I think HA will have access to some very powerful weaponry that will absolutely put the MAX suit to shame. They stated that there was going to be a MAX killer class and my money's on HA. I've also heard that the HA will have certain restrictions that will allow it to equip one of it's big guns in conjuction with a smaller second gun. So a TR might sport a MCG and the smaller RL that we see in the footage, or he might go with the LMG that's in the footage, and carry around Striker as well (for PS1 illiterate people, the Striker was a 5 shot lock on weapon that could lock onto ground and air vehicles and fires very quickly. PS2 version would be incredibly deadly given the weaker vehicles).

Point being, we've yet to see everything that the DEVs are going to give the infantry. They have stated that there will be an anti-MAX class and I'm betting that when it comes out, any problem (which probably doesn't exist) would be solved. Timers never solved problems, they caused them.

And as One Big Hebrew said. Judging the game by the global chat you see in the beta videos is like judging a writer at a comicon by what the mouth breathing neck beards in line say about him. I count on what I actually see, and I don't see a "prevailant MAX problem".

[RoninOni]

Yah, I see them being absolutely wicked as base and mobile AA defense.

And I think their AV role will be one of more ambush nature... which will limit it's good locations for use a fair amount. But if it can get a good drop on tanks (or group on a tank column) I could see some devastating potential.

AI MAXes will almost certainly take a flamerthrower and some kind of projectile, and would only really be useful indoors where AV isn't an issue but man... they'll be nasty.

I guess since HA's will always be more versatile being able to take on any of the 3 target types whereas the MAX can specialize to be great or still limit to 2 so always requires some form of backup (not to mention engineers)

As long as it takes good certification to get all that versatility it should be fine...

And I'm sure if everyone ends up rolling MAX 24/7, they'll see it and do something about it.... so I'm not really worried.

FWIW: I was counting the timer from moment of spawning... so you spawn and die 2 min later, if you're certed, you have no wait. Maybe even reduceable all the way down to 30 seconds with a few more points. I don't want it to ruin a style, I just want to make sure it's not the auto goto for over half the player base.

[Salad Snake]

It's so weird reading replies from people who are unfamiliar with Planetside 1 trying to think up solutions that already exist.

1 word: Decimator.

A disposable weapon isn't much of a counter considering we're talking about situations where MAX's are spammed. Of course, timers counter that but I'm trying to think of a solution that doesn't involve timers. Resource costs are fine as you'd expect a giant armor suit to cost resources to make, but timers just seem like an arbitrary measure that doesn't much fit the story as well as making it less fun for the player who wants to play MAX. It'd be like class limits in TF2; yeah it works but it's not very fun for the player.

[Ghostwithbroken]

A disposable weapon isn't much of a counter considering we're talking about situations where MAX's are spammed. Of course, timers counter that but I'm trying to think of a solution that doesn't involve timers. Resource costs are fine as you'd expect a giant armor suit to cost resources to make, but timers just seem like an arbitrary measure that doesn't much fit the story as well as making it less fun for the player who wants to play MAX. It'd be like class limits in TF2; yeah it works but it's not very fun for the player.

They're massive, cant function without support, they fire from the hip. They are more like ramming tools and mobile AA tools than anything else.

Saw some LA playing around with MAX units coz of their mobility.

[Blackwolf]

Yah, I see them being absolutely wicked as base and mobile AA defense.

And I think their AV role will be one of more ambush nature... which will limit it's good locations for use a fair amount. But if it can get a good drop on tanks (or group on a tank column) I could see some devastating potential.

AI MAXes will almost certainly take a flamerthrower and some kind of projectile, and would only really be useful indoors where AV isn't an issue but man... they'll be nasty.

I guess since HA's will always be more versatile being able to take on any of the 3 target types whereas the MAX can specialize to be great or still limit to 2 so always requires some form of backup (not to mention engineers)

As long as it takes good certification to get all that versatility it should be fine...

And I'm sure if everyone ends up rolling MAX 24/7, they'll see it and do something about it.... so I'm not really worried.

FWIW: I was counting the timer from moment of spawning... so you spawn and die 2 min later, if you're certed, you have no wait. Maybe even reduceable all the way down to 30 seconds with a few more points. I don't want it to ruin a style, I just want to make sure it's not the auto goto for over half the player base.

It will never be that, trust me on this.

In PS1 the MAX suits had a 5 minute timer. This didn't stop people from spamming them or MAX crashes. It actually just annoyed the people who played the MAX suit the way it was meant to be played and discouraged use in support of inantry because the things were huge targets that everyone shot at first. MAX crashing became a viable tactic because large clusters of MAX suits reduced their chances of being picked off individually.

[Quovatis]

At least during E3, the certs showed that all empires will have the ability to cert Overdrive for their MAX (like the PS1 TR MAXes). There was also talk of giving them certable shields. But I'm interested to see if they bring back empire-specific MAX stuff.

[Salad Snake]

They're massive, cant function without support, they fire from the hip. They are more like ramming tools and mobile AA tools than anything else.

Saw some LA playing around with MAX units coz of their mobility.
In that case, why argue for a timer then? If they are OP, provide weaknesses. If they are balanced , no need for a timer then.

[Heaven]

I swear I've seen a picture where it looks like one of the VS MAX's are gliding along like they are on skates!

[Warruz]

At least during E3, the certs showed that all empires will have the ability to cert Overdrive for their MAX (like the PS1 TR MAXes). There was also talk of giving them certable shields. But I'm interested to see if they bring back empire-specific MAX stuff.

If tb's video is anything to go off of he mentioned there will be faction specific weapons. So im guessing things like the scattergun would be faction specific.

[Renegadeknight]

I swear I've seen a picture where it looks like one of the VS MAX's are gliding along like they are on skates!
might be how they look when in running mode.

[Toppopia]

I swear I've seen a picture where it looks like one of the VS MAX's are gliding along like they are on skates!

Beta bug, i have seen a few times where VS maxes slide along the ground, and the animations look odd, like they arn't mechanical suits, more like a soldier with their feet in cement with mini rockets under them and stomping the ground.

[Renegadeknight]

Beta bug, i have seen a few times where VS maxes slide along the ground, and the animations look odd, like they arn't mechanical suits, more like a soldier with their feet in cement with mini rockets under them and stomping the ground.

Do you know which video this was in? Kind of interested to see what exactly he's talking about.

[Toppopia]

Do you know which video this was in? Kind of interested to see what exactly he's talking about.

It was in 1 or 2 of the latest ones, unless my eyes were playing tricks on me.

I think in the Gamescon video near the end, can't remember now.