Guard Duty

[Kitsune]

Anybody else one of those super lazy players that literally would sit around for hours talking with people until something happens at a backwater outpost/tower/stronghold/base?

I know I am.

People of Ps1, was this very common? If it was, was it fun? Was it worth it? How many people did you post for say, a biolab? Is it far easier to defend then to attack? Did people often respond well if a surprise invasion force came? How critical is it to have an early warning? How long do you think a Ps2 base can hold out and how well? Is it easy to counterattack if you hold fast? How long can sieges last?

If you don't wanna answer all that, your experiences with Guard Duty and/or reassignment to base patrol will be fun too.

Oh and to keep this Ps2 related, how do you think defneding will be in Ps2? A good guess would be appreciated if you don't know :)
And if anybody just says, "Yes," or "No," Domo will have to whack you.

:domotwak::domotwak::domotwak:

[RoninOni]

PS1 was a bit different because it used what was called the "Lattice" system instead of the new open map hex system.... there was no worry about territories that were fully behind the front line.

So who knows. Maybe there will be some sort of teleporter system (ie; respawn at another base by going through a spawner or something).

And usually defending has it's advantages... but not enough to overcome truly overwhelming numbers. 10 won't likely hold out against 100 very long. But defending air raids with AA will likely be fairly rewarding if you manage to place yourself in the right places in the right times.

[Warborn]

People of Ps1, was this very common? If it was, was it fun? Was it worth it? How many people did you post for say, a biolab? Is it far easier to defend then to attack? Did people often respond well if a surprise invasion force came? How critical is it to have an early warning? How long do you think a Ps2 base can hold out and how well? Is it easy to counterattack if you hold fast? How long can sieges last?

Not something that really happened at all.

Not fun.

Wasn't worth it.

Nobody ever got "posted".

People would respond to rearward bases having their generators blown with a squad or two. Sometimes you'd find an actual squad of enemies camping the base in order to keep it down, usually it was just one guy flying from base to base blowing generators. But because of the lattice system you couldn't actually be attacked at those rear bases. It's been about a decade since I played without the lattice so I don't remember how it worked when a "surprise attack" was possible.

Early warning doesn't matter. An asshole with boomers could drop a base in a minute.

Bases in PS2 don't last that long. Watch the stream. You control points and they fill up based on how many points you have. Every base is constantly being attacked, pretty much. This answers your last two questions. Bases are perpetually being contested and flipping back and forth and back and forth, based on the stream.

[MaxDamage]

I wasn't lazy but I held guard many times at crucial towers/base points that the zerg was too busy to defend. There were plenty of opportunities for this in PS1. Considering that many areas are more spread out, I'd suspect there are more opportunities for this - tho why this is a highlight for you I do not know.

For me it was duty.

[Warborn]

Staying in a tower near a base next on the chopping block to prevent it from being taken and enemies flooding in is a totally different thing from hanging out in some base with no lattice link hoping someone comes along and goes for its generator or something.

Realistically, for Planetside 2, I guess it'll happen often enough. Maybe you won't be sitting at a single outpost. Maybe instead you'll just be waging smaller fights in the behind-the-lines area away from the base fights. I suspect there'll be enough people who prefer smaller engagements over massive base fights to make this a decently rewarding way to play. Could be, though, that some people might actually really enjoy picking an easily defensible outpost behind enemy lines and locking it down with an organized squad/platoon. So maybe you'd be biting off more than you can chew in some cases.

[Blackwolf]

You'd have to adapt your defensive stance to a more fast response team. If a base in PS2 is back hacked (hacked from behind friendly lines) then you would have to travel there as fast as possible to identify the problem and, if possible, correct it on your own. And if not possible, engage the enemy and call for reinforcements with as much info as you can provide such as numbers and direction of attack.

"He who defends everything, defends nothing" - Sun Tzu.

I doubt you'll find the cushy guard job you really want unless you post yourself at a base or the foothold and wait for something to happen. PS1 had 15 minute hack times on CCs so there was a good deal of sitting around guarding the CC waiting for the hack timer to run out which was boring work and typically resulted in more duels between squadmates then actual defense against enemies trying to stop the hack.

If I started an outfit, I could find something for someone like you to do and wish there were more of you to do it. But that's me.

[Vencher]

if its one of those ays where you cant have your full attention on the game, then sure I can see myself standing guard at what could potentially be a tactical vantage point behind the main lines.

Or perhaps if you know a base is about to fall, prepping defenses in the next outpost or facility could prevent a rapid multi capture of a large swath of territory.

I wont lie, when i play MMORPG's (once i am level cap'd) i do nothing but sit in pvp queues, raid enemy cities, gank farmers, and troll chat channels. If i am not in the mood to nerd rage at morons, i will sit in a quiet area and "hold it down" just outside of the main area of combat.

[Salad Snake]

I'm also probably going to do this in-game, it's fun once in a blue moon. Satisfies my rare role-playing urge. So I'm with on hoping this is viable in-game OP.

[Sirisian]

PS1 was a bit different because it used what was called the "Lattice" system instead of the new open map hex system.... there was no worry about territories that were fully behind the front line.
I see your front line and raise you a gen hold... a very long gen hold.... then neutral then mine.... :lol:

[Gugabalog]

I wouldn't mind it a ton but it would definitely be secondary.

[therandomone]

I mean, I could see that happening if the base was closer to the "front-lines" you may want to go on guard duty. But again, like others have said, it depends on how quickly bases can be captured/ the hack times on said bases and if theyre similar to PS1. Could be fun though. Just from watching the videos I see a lot of possibility for amazing views while at certain bases it seems, so who knows, you might just have the urge to guard-duty if you get a spot with a nice view.

[JoCool]

Guard duty in this game could be necessary to primarily spot an enemy attack and then, secondary, provide an immediate response to it.

Not so in Planetside. When a facility and its surrounding posts are being attacked / hacked, you will notice so on the map. Hence, the primary reason for guard duty is taken over by the system itself. You as well as others can then quickly respawn at the facility near the action, which is like teleporting towards the plant. Thus the necessity of staying in the remote area for a rapid response counterattack, the secondary reason for guard duty, is also removed. Other issues such as base maintenance and logistics in general to hold the line to the front are not portrayed in Planetside. This has created a much more vivid and action-oriented battlefield.


However, there are comparable tasks you could aim for. For example, you could sozialize in gathering a team, managing a Squad / an Outfit, quickly draw yourself a plan on where to attack, communicate with other Squad-/Outfitleaders, be a Galaxy pilot, place your Galaxy in strategically important spots and continue to guard it while keeping contanct and the broad overview on what's happening. You do get points when people spawn from your Galaxy and you will get them for your Squad capturing objectives. All while you do not need to move as much and have a minimum amount of twitch combat.

[Sunrock]

I can defiantly see my self sitting on guard duty for 8 hours on a Sunday when having a hang over :D

[Diehard]

Guard duty is a must for me. My Adrenalines are limited you know. Plus its a good chance for me to maximize the engie turret

[Scotsh]

Guard duty for a specific outpost? Not so much.

But i can definitely see myself patrolling an area of smaller bases for some time. Maybe even with a small squad.

[Mongo]

The difference between this game and the current one is the Lattices which directed flow and strategy on the map.

Also as seen from the Streams, the base layouts are rather poor and non defensible and lead towards a rather deathmatchy feel - what military creates defensive layouts?

While im not in beta for ps2 I can only postulate on how this will effect the game flow.

I suspect you will find random people capping bases and hexes in the middle of no-where completely negating the feel of taking and holding territory as it is fairly easy to flip in a capture and hold BF/Cod way from the official streams. So chances are you can play this guard duty role due to all the random attacks. I honestly just hope there are loads of people that like standing in an empty tower as without lattices random attacks in the middle of nowhere will be pretty common.

[Scotsh]

While im not in beta for ps2 I can only postulate on how this will effect the game flow.

Sorry, but in this case definitely: Nuff said.

[ringring]

Well, people are not posted and Bio Labs in PS! were diffent, but yes. It could in a sense happen.

For instance, because of the lattice which doesn't exist in ps2, you would have a fairly good idea of what the likely targets could be. (There'd be no point doing this as a simple matter of course, it would need a cetain situation in the strategic war where you'd predict your enemy was going to make a move.)
Anyways, so you would lay CE at the target bases and picket warpgates and try to at least discover an invasion within the first 2-3 minutes.

[Sunrock]

I suspect you will find random people capping bases and hexes in the middle of no-where completely negating the feel of taking and holding territory as it is fairly easy to flip in a capture and hold BF/Cod way from the official streams. So chances are you can play this guard duty role due to all the random attacks. I honestly just hope there are loads of people that like standing in an empty tower as without lattices random attacks in the middle of nowhere will be pretty common.

In one of the official videos on youtube I remember they explaining this game mech. briefly.

And as I understood it is that the more hexes you have surrounding an enemy hex the faster you could flip it. This of course means that if you try to take a hex in the middle of enemy territory it will be allot slower then at the front line. This will give you allot of warning time to come and defend it and it will be really easy to recapture.

So I don't think it will be too common that players try to take hexes behind enemy lines. Of course it will happen but I think it will only be good for is a tactical maneuver to lure enemy players from the front line as the man power to try to hold one of those hexes would be to big.

[Scotsh]

In one of the official videos on youtube I remember they explaining this game mech. briefly.

And as I understood it is that the more hexes you have surrounding an enemy hex the faster you could flip it. This of course means that if you try to take a hex in the middle of enemy territory it will be allot slower then at the front line. This will give you allot of warning time to come and defend it and it will be really easy to recapture.

So I don't think it will be too common that players try to take hexes behind enemy lines. Of course it will happen but I think it will only be good for is a tactical maneuver to lure enemy players from the front line as the man power to try to hold one of those hexes would be to big.

This.

I imagine that this system can be tweaked in a way that it is far more effective and more fun than the lattice system.


You can see from TotalBiscuits videos how it works, so no NDA violation there. I captured this picture from his video about Biolabs and Towers (as posted here -> http://www.planetside-universe.com/showthread.php?t=47017)

http://www.abload.de/img/hexsystemvbsxo.png

In the middle you see two progress bars, one for NC one for TR (no barneys involved in this battle). The more capture points (A, B, C in this case) your faction hold the faster the progress bar fills up. The TR progress bar has a red block at the beginning, this is a bonus given for adjacent hexes controlled by the TR.

This can be tweaked quite nicely. They could make it that capturing a base without this bonus will take a really long time. For bases with 6 control points this bonus could actually enable you to take a base with only 2 control points.
Personally i hope they implement some kind of siege system that the if your faction has a base surrounded the bonus grows with each capture try. This would force the defending faction to break the siege at some point.

If it turns out backhacking will grow rampart and only annoying they could lock out capture tries if a facility to too far (say 4-5 hexes) from the nearest friendly hex.

[Mongo]

In one of the official videos on youtube I remember they explaining this game mech. briefly.


Yup I remember this too and it's not in opposition to my opinion it will just take a little longer.

@scotsh While I am not in the PS2 beta I was in the planetside 1 beta, they only introduced lattices about 4 weeks before the end of beta as a way to fix the problem I have pointed out, and it WAS a problem. They also suggested to fix it by scaling time to cap depending on local influence much like the current system, this didnt work either. You would think they would have learned.

Lets just hope they tweak it in beta so that you cant realistically do this, otherwise you will end up with no "front" just around 40 odd small scale Futuristic BF style fights all over the map, with worse graphics... and people just switching between them with instant action.

[SpottyGekko]

If there isn't an effective method (like the lattice system) to limit back-hacking, I imagine it will be rife.

PS2 is F2P and should have a MUCH larger population than PS did. That will bring a lot of solo'ers into the game.

In a furball fight, solo players are at a huge disadvantage, because their "mad skillz" are negated by the fact that there are so many possible vectors of attack. A solo player cannot watch 360 degrees (and the sky) simultaneously, but a squad with good comms can because they work together.

But "behind-the-lines" infiltration is ideal for a solo player. Someone with good FPS skills can do a lot better when faced with 3 enemies than they would fighting in amongst 30 or 40 hostiles.

As the beta population rises, it will most likely become apparent what the impact of back-hacking will be. There is still a lot of time to fine tune this aspect.

[Nemises]

It will be hard to infiltrator solo cap 6 points and hold them for the 10 mins (?) or so it needs to take a base without some crew of vengeance filled yocals gal dropping you into the pit..

..how it used to work in PS1
- small long fight for local tower
- the zerg gathers....
- massive long protracted fight for the main base
- finally the hack is on!
- the zerg (from both sides) pisses off to the next fight, leaving a couple of squads left to nurse the hack...(this part is guard duty)

So yah OP, actually it used to happen all the time

[VaderShake]

I think "guard duty" is the wrong ideology and term to use. I think as the battle moves and flows there will be opportunity to take a tactical defensive position that will make sense anticipating an attack from the other factions in a less active region.

Like cutting off a flanking route, by setting up an ambush and waiting for an enemy to try and sneak by on a quad or hot drop some troops at an outpost behind the lines. I don't see it as "guard duty" to play off the line and anticipate attacks on resources or areas.

[vVRedOctoberVv]

I personally don't mind "guard duty", but I'm definitely in the minority. 95% of people would be running around all pell mell heading to the nearest clusterfuck. And I can't really blame 'em. If at least a few people would stay on guard, it would make enemy raids behind the front lines more difficult, but I don't really see it happening much.

[Nordan]

PS1 was a bit different because it used what was called the "Lattice" system instead of the new open map hex system.... there was no worry about territories that were fully behind the front line.

So who knows. Maybe there will be some sort of teleporter system (ie; respawn at another base by going through a spawner or something).

And usually defending has it's advantages... but not enough to overcome truly overwhelming numbers. 10 won't likely hold out against 100 very long. But defending air raids with AA will likely be fairly rewarding if you manage to place yourself in the right places in the right times.

In real life you always bring twice the number when attacking an enemy position at the least, otherwise it is likely that they will be repelled. I wonder if this rule of thumb will apply to planetside 2 as well.

[Majik]

I use to love to sit in a tower or near a base gen waiting for the TR 'covert ops' to show up thinking they were doing something where no one would be.
Surprise Quasar!!!!!:evil:

[RoninOni]

Patrols will be more important than Guards really.

Patrols will be active in seeking out enemy approaches... where guards are only helpful if they're in the right place at the right time.

If you and your buddies want to play "guards" then what you'd prolly do is get a couple guys on patrol in fighter aircraft with the rest ready by a waiting Gal to quickly respond to any trouble areas.

[Boone]

In real life you always bring twice the number when attacking an enemy position at the least, otherwise it is likely that they will be repelled. I wonder if this rule of thumb will apply to planetside 2 as well.

Since when do people in "real life" bring twice the amount of people needed to get something done all the time? Seems silly.

[Vencher]

Since when do people in "real life" bring twice the amount of people needed to get something done all the time? Seems silly.


Since people realized that in real life you dont get to respawn, and it doesnt take half a magazine to kill someone, just a couple rounds will do it just fine.

Not to mention in a siege you had to bring twice as many soldiers. if it were even numbers at the start of a siege, the army laying siege would falter much sooner than the defenders. after the first assault the attackers would be fewer in numbers, thus unable to maintain a proper siege. you bring more when attacking because you have to stuff the maw with bodies until it chokes. then you spill over. it sounds harsh, but thems the facts. Even in modern combat scenarios, if a group is assaulting a defended position, they are still going to use as many people as possible to take it. and if that might be too costly, they just blow the whole thing up. Attackers have to use Overkill to get things done. be it an overwhelming show of numbers, or one piece of ordinance that will level an area.

[Noon]

Because of the role I will be playing, it won't be often that you will find me hanging out in a empty base 'guarding' it. Unless its a forward position.

But, I do enjoy defending a position that is currently under attack. Usually, players are more heavily concentrated in one specific area; so as a Medic, you can rack up a massive amount of points just keeping them alive.

[Rico Suave]

If by "guard duty" you mean me and my friends all riding atv's roaming around the rear like some sort of Mad Max biker gang smashing all those who dare to pilfer our rear area then yes, I will enjoy guard duty. pimp:

[HeatLegend]

I'll definitely do this -a lot-, as well as patrol my faction's borders with my Reaver or Vanguard. It's nice and relaxing, fun to just cruise around and occasionaly find an enemy trying to go far behind his enemy lines and steal a base :3 Can't fucking wait.

[Anabuki]

Not so much sit-around-and-wait guard duty, but I definitely wouldn't mind patrolling along the edges of owned territory, provided it served a purpose like being able to put down some sort of marker on the continent saying ATTACK IMMINENT! and estimated enemy force size or something like that :groovy:

[Mr DeCastellac]

In PS1 there were 15 minute captures at which many players would just sit in and around the control console, and a lot of them would stay there afterwards, slowly diminishing as they pushed the enemy back, lowering the chance of it being hacked. I know I've always been happy to just chill out for 10-20 minutes, even when not protecting a hack.

[Canadian Vanu]

If it's anything like waiting for enemys behind the front line with your engi buddies, whacking a spy every 2 minutes and playing games with hats, sprays and telling jokes... It'll be fun.

Some times sitting around with your buddies at the front base can be fun, even with no nearby engagements. Like the 2 guards talking to each other in every stealth game.

[zomg]

If they make the UI moddable, I'll make a Worm-game you can play while bored. :lol:

[Gugabalog]

I'd probably make it a race with my squad, all of us patrolling on flashes racing between bases.

[Nordan]

Some times sitting around with your buddies at the front base can be fun, even with no nearby engagements. Like the 2 guards talking to each other in every stealth game.

And that always ends so well ;)

[RoninOni]

If there isn't an effective method (like the lattice system) to limit back-hacking, I imagine it will be rife.

PS2 is F2P and should have a MUCH larger population than PS did. That will bring a lot of solo'ers into the game.

In a furball fight, solo players are at a huge disadvantage, because their "mad skillz" are negated by the fact that there are so many possible vectors of attack. A solo player cannot watch 360 degrees (and the sky) simultaneously, but a squad with good comms can because they work together.

But "behind-the-lines" infiltration is ideal for a solo player. Someone with good FPS skills can do a lot better when faced with 3 enemies than they would fighting in amongst 30 or 40 hostiles.

As the beta population rises, it will most likely become apparent what the impact of back-hacking will be. There is still a lot of time to fine tune this aspect.

As already mentioned, adjacent territories are a major influence in capping.

Back capping will be easy to defend against because they have NO adjacent territories while the defenders have 6. Not to mention that larger, more significant bases have like 5 capture points... and it's when you have 1 that the battle for that hex begins. So you cap a point with your friends and the enemy holds 4 to your 1 cap point, WITH a 6 to 0 border advantage, meaning they barely need to slow you down at all.

The only caps that will be really possible are small outposts that only give a spawn point (no resources) to the holding faction.... and the team who own all the surrounding territory will be able to cap it back in a fraction of the time.

This system will allow for back attacks, forcing defenders to respond to it, hopefully weakening their front line so your main offensive can push forward.

These kinds of tactics are not possible within the Lattice system.

The Hex system much more accurately depicts territory trading in real war. There is no reason you can't capture and hold territory behind enemy lines, but it's going to be rather difficult. Success could prove quite advantageous and even failure could prove a valuable distraction or feint.

Not so much sit-around-and-wait guard duty, but I definitely wouldn't mind patrolling along the edges of owned territory, provided it served a purpose like being able to put down some sort of marker on the continent saying ATTACK IMMINENT! and estimated enemy force size or something like that :groovy:

I'm hoping the mission system will allow players to accept "Patrol Missions" in which they are given the ability to make broadcasts of spotted enemy and awarded XP for completion of patrol (reward based on distance & time. Air patrols would be different from ground patrols in reward per km).

There could also be forward observer missions for scouts to post up and signal back on incoming enemy columns so that ambush missions could be more successful.

Of course, if any of this sounds boring to you, there will be plenty of other mission types, from Air support, main tank assaults, air assaults, galaxy transport, Infantry base raids, and they'd be all married together in larger offensives. (ie; couple guys sign up to be the Gal pilots for the Infantry signing up to perform a raid on a tower post, the entire mission being part of a larger coordinated effort.)

[Buggsy]

If being in a defensive, fortified position, actually gave me an advantage over attackers then I'd do guard duty.

Why do I get this impression this is not the case.

[Toppopia]

If being in a defensive, fortified position, actually gave me an advantage over attackers then I'd do guard duty.

Why do I get this impression this is not the case.

Because bases are more open, some have no walls and capture points are away from the main building in some cases, so you can't bunker down with your last surviving comrades and hold out. Maybe in 1 or 2 buildings you can, but the majority of them you can't.

[Buggsy]

Because bases are more open, some have no walls and capture points are away from the main building in some cases, so you can't bunker down with your last surviving comrades and hold out. Maybe in 1 or 2 buildings you can, but the majority of them you can't.

How counter intuitive.

[Toppopia]

How counter intuitive.

The devs did say they wanted to move away from corridor rocket body explosion grind fests. So this is 1 drawback to that. Not as many good defensible positions :(

[DarkMesa]

My cousin is out fighting Vanu and what do I get? Guard duty.

OT; I will likely end up having moments were I spend hours on top of a caped building as an infiltrator, waiting for anyone to poke their heads out within my line of sight.

[Kalledorn]

Guard Duty? Sure thing, the engineer seems like the perfect unit for such duties. AP and AV mines at strategic choke points? Check. Deployed turret with a good field of fire? Check. Additional ammo ready to go? Check.

Also, I know first hand how annoying things get when you are attacking a key point and win it over and then lose another key point that was also vital to your battle. Defense might not win games by itself but it certainly helps alot in my book.