Selling leet account!!!

[Ipimpnoobs]

There was an article brought up about this regarding Planetside 1 back in 2003. I read through this and SOE stand on this back then was NO.. blah blah EULA this and that. I say hogwash!

I think in 2012 account selling should be allowed and done with station cash, in game!

My reasoning's:

1. People will do this anyway, why not take advantage of the potential profit internally. (think the war on drugs etc....)

2. Most mmo's no matter what genre have an in-game economy. We know ur plans are to create player housing island or something like this in the future, but char selling could fill the void until that time.

3. Gold farmers. We all know they exist in every game. If people can make money by playing this game, it will cause more people to play. The only way to level up a class is to play it so....

4. I worked extremly hard and put in 1 googolplex amount of hours on my leet char bro! <-- if this is you, you really don't have to worry because a) your probably with a tight crew of pros and b) your prolly a pro. Those acct buying noobs will just be more xp for you to lvl your crew. Nothing wrong with pimping a noob or 2... They taste good too..nom nom nom

5. What the heck is Ipimpnoobs talking about? Guys (and margret lol j/k)check this article out from my eveonline days:

Buying or selling an account

Can I buying or sell EVE Online accounts?
Account transfers are expressly forbidden, as per article 3 of the EULA. Accounts found to have changed hands may be transferred to their original owners, or banned permanently, at the discretion of the GMs. This includes accounts bought and sold on online trading services such as eBay.
Please note that sharing your account details is also a violation of the aforementioned EULA.
(sound familiar, but wait...there's more!)

It is however possible to move individual characters between accounts via the character transfer option in the account management pages.

If you are thinking about buying or auctioning a character for ISK, check our forums for more information.

(See they embraced and made money off it! If they can, so can you. How old is eve online and they are still hanging in there huh??? ISK is their in-game currency for those of you who don't know)


Bottom line, we need to think of ways to get you paid for all of your hard work especially T-rey. Those nice threads he wears has to cost a pretty penny. :lol: Anyhow, this would just be another income stream flowing to the profit ocean.

In the great words of dictators and politicians everywhere, EMBRACE CHANGE!!!!

Discuss!!!

[Hosp]

If things stay the way they currently are...

1) Login
2) Make Character(s)
3) Sit AFK X Months
4) Profit

It works in EVE because there is actual time, effort and possibly even real money being put into a character for resale. Here, it won't work as what's needed to improve a character is made passively with no effort, real money and only time.

In the end, if it's possible at all, it's far to early to tell. But if character development doesn't change much, character sale will be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

[Rat]

I say why not?...there will be a market for it. It may not be as big as buying EVE toons.

[Ipimpnoobs]

If things stay the way they currently are...

1) Login
2) Make Character(s)
3) Sit AFK X Months
4) Profit

It works in EVE because there is actual time, effort and possibly even real money being put into a character for resale. Here, it won't work as what's needed to improve a character is made passively with no effort, real money and only time.

Nice try hosp. But, actually if you did not play your PS2 acct. and allowed the time xp to tick it, would stop every 24 hours first off, requiring the player to login again to start the passive xp tick.

In eve, you cert'd the same why you do here except, you didn't get the benefit of the cert immediately once you are able to acquire it with Battle points. You would then need to wait a duration of time as your eveonline char needed to train real time. This real time training could be anywhere from 5mins to 45 days per cert training completion.

PS2 is very relaxed regarding this. Also, the only thing isk is good for is purchasing items in game but it would never increase how fast your char trains.

So theoretically you can say both games will allow training without real money, but there is a catch. How long does it take to level a character with passive training ticking and no in-game battle xp? I'm sure it's years depending on what specialization you decide to grind out. So ..it would work and be profitable.

In the end, if it's possible at all, it's far to early to tell. But if character development doesn't change much, character sale will be irrelevant in the grand scheme of things.

What do you mean by irrelevant? Did I miss something that was going to happen in the grand scheme?

It will take 3 to 7 years of grinding battle xp to have a character fully trained in ps2. If you think for a second, players wont have multiple accounts, I have some beach front property in Arizona I'll sell you for $5. With that said, there are a lot of people that will not grind like myself for years, but would happily pay $1k for high certified PS2 char. You can make a living with games like this, there are plenty of people in eveonline who do. With the EULA rules in affect. The only thing that matters is if SOE wants to capitalize on it as well.

Let me know if you need a pay pal account.

[Figment]

This would encourage all the wrong things, worst case scenario, players couldn't play because others created idling bots to farm Auraxium at warpgates, etc. So no. It's completely unethical IMO. With the offline training, you can easily get 200 Cert Points in a weak of not using a character (no auraxium), then sell that character with all certifications unlocked. It's bad enough you can unlock those, but this would go against the ONLY 'balancing' thing in game: time sink (which is poor enough of a system since it's based on short term thinking).

So no. That's like directly purchasing cert points and going from scratch to everything unlocked at the start of playing the game. It's bad enough they're being given away for free IMO. Laziness should not be rewarded, but this would also stop new players from learning from mistakes and making choices that determine the character of their characters, because they like those.

It goes completely against the current system, as well as against the system I would like to see instead of the current sytem.

[Mastachief]

I say why not?...there will be a market for it. It may not be as big as buying EVE toons.

Because each one of those AFK farmers are consuming a slot of the map, resulting in less actual players.

[Crator]

^^^ Not to mention probably causing FPS issues for people with lower spec PCs. But hopefully that won't be an issue for them come release.

[Mox]

Thats p2w. I hate the idea!

[EVILPIG]

First of all, AFK farming will not exist. Secondly, as long as it is against the EULA, foget it. Third, I think buying/selling accounts is fail.

[Hamma]

Yea AFK farming won't be sticking around. The devs have said they just aren't focused on stopping it yet.. but they will.

[Hosp]

Even if I hint at agreeing, you seem to like disagreeing with my agreement. I think Pimp has a crush on me acting all wife-like.
But I'll clarify what I said as even a short paragraph seems hard to follow:

- Things stay as is...it won't work.
- Things change, depending on the changes, it might work.

But I'll go even simpler and:

Thats p2w. I hate the idea!

+1 this then.

[BlueSkies]

Not needed...

Also, it would effectively remove any point in having stat tracking

[Rat]

I dont see it as pay to win, anyone will be able to buy all of the sidegrades with station cash anyway..the only thing a person would really be bypassing is earning the cert points...and account sales are going to happen anyway, why shouldnt SOE cash in on it?
As long as the afk issue is taken care of I think it would be fine.
It isnt like a new player with a experienced toon is going to be all that effective with it anyway...heck SOE could even require that the purchaser bought a name change.

[Sunrock]

There was an article brought up about this regarding Planetside 1 back in 2003. I read through this and SOE stand on this back then was NO.. blah blah EULA this and that. I say hogwash!

I think in 2012 account selling should be allowed and done with station cash, in game!

My reasoning's:

1. People will do this anyway, why not take advantage of the potential profit internally. (think the war on drugs etc....)

You're arguments are allot like saying. People steal and murder each other every day so way should I not do that my self?

Just because people always have committed crimes does not make it ok...

[Ipimpnoobs]

lol..Hosp, i love u man no hard feelings. Today is new day.

I figured many of you would be like nooooooooo! lol

Yea actually didn't think about p2w side of it... If I had to argue against that I would say certs doesn't make the player, skill does. It's not like its gold ammo in world of tanks or anything. Anyhow.. No worries though.

Fig: yes it would definitely hurt the traditional community. If you play eveonline or have in the past, you know it is a very ruthless pvp game. With that said, unethical or not SOE has to make money to pay for the PS2 awesomeness. The more revenue streams they have, the more content we get. I'm wondering as a thought project if the good outweighs the bad on this one?

I thought the AFK farmers did not get a lot of xp and they had to keep logging in. Is this wrong information? I guess the answer would be how long would it take to afk farm to lets say a completely certified pilot for all crafts? If its, 3 years, then does it matter?

Well that is a very good point about the wasting a slot. But you could argue, there will be players that are so bad they are wasting a slot also....lol

EvilPig: I agree with all of your points, but the last one although true, will happen regardless. It's in every mmo currently.

I think we can all agree we dislike it, because we put in the time etc, etc.... However, I think we should ask the question can we stop it? If the answer is no, then I think we have to embrace a new way of doing things so it is better for the players while being profitable for SOE.

I'm sure, all of the big'wigs at SOE were like hell no, you are not putting out a free game that is AAA. I'm sure there are some butts on the line as well. If they don't make money gent's we won't be playing PS2. It really boils down to that bottom line.

If someone lvls out a char with 3 years of playing time, I mean isn't it his right to do what they want with it. I don't know.

What do you guys think?

[Sunrock]

I dont see it as pay to win, anyone will be able to buy all of the sidegrades with station cash anyway..the only thing a person would really be bypassing is earning the cert points...and account sales are going to happen anyway, why shouldnt SOE cash in on it?
As long as the afk issue is taken care of I think it would be fine.
It isnt like a new player with a experienced toon is going to be all that effective with it anyway...heck SOE could even require that the purchaser bought a name change.

Buying anything for SC = pay to win...

[Ipimpnoobs]

You're arguments are allot like saying. People steal and murder each other every day so way should I not do that my self?

Just because people always have committed crimes does not make it ok...

I agree it may seem like it but I promise it is no where near your example. Murder we can pretty much agree, is not the same as buying an account with full certifications.

However, we understand you firmly think no, even if it is going to be in game anyways.

I can assure, ebay will be full of accounts as well as other online companies. The sad thing is, if it is your way, these 3rd party companies will be making money instead of SOE.

It's a very hard call though and I too share your feelings. I wish we lived in an honorable world.

[Sunrock]

I agree it may seem like it but I promise it is no where near your example. Murder we can pretty much agree, is not the same as buying an account with full certifications.

However, we understand you firmly think no, even if it is going to be in game anyways.

I can assure, ebay will be full of accounts as well as other online companies. The sad thing is, if it is your way, these 3rd party companies will be making money instead of SOE.

It's a very hard call though and I too share your feelings. I wish we lived in an honorable world.

I don't compare the deeds with each other. I compare the reasoning to commit those deeds.

And it's not really that hard to minimize that it happens. SOE can employ a staff of loyers to hunt them down. It will just cost a bunch of money.

And if I was the emperor of the world I would have death penalty on this things. Not that I think death penalties would discourage people from committing crimes. But it's a bullet proof way to make sure they never do it a again.

[Ipimpnoobs]

I don't compare the deeds with each other. I compare the reasoning to commit those deeds.

I totally understand and respect your opinion. What did you think about the companies making money instead of SOE?

[RadarX]

Two quick things:

First, the AFK Auraxium gains will not continue too much longer. It's a widely known issue they are currently resolving.

We have had in game support for account sales in other games and to be honest? It wasn't as widely used as you might think. It does however prevent players from doing it on their own and I can provide plenty of horror stories about that.

[Sunrock]

I totally understand and respect your opinion. What did you think about the companies making money instead of SOE?

What do you think? The same as any other drug dealing business, fencing stolen goods, launder dirty money. They should all be criminalize.

In fact it is in some European countries.

[morf]

I think that in-game character sales is a fine idea. Let a player list a character for sale in an official marketplace and have it securely transferred from account to account. This activity will happen either way and I prefer that it help benefit the game rather than some ricepickers overseas. Seller earns some extra cash or station cash, buyer who doesnt have time to grind gets the character he wants, SoE takes a cut and uses it to give us all a better game. Win win win win situation for everyone involved.

[Tatwi]

Because each one of those AFK farmers are consuming a slot of the map, resulting in less actual players.

Yup.

Honestly, I think it would make more sense for SOE to sell Cert Points for 10 SC per point (that's 10 cert points per dollar). That way anyone who would put money down for a "more advanced character" can give that money directly to SOE.

Sure, they would not have high BR (which is really just Bragging Rights and an implant slot unlock atm) or load of Auraxium, but they would be able to log into the game, drop $50 on 500 cert points and have a character that is customized to their liking to start out. Double/Triple SC weekends would be a mad house. :)

[ISVRaDa]

We can´t compare EVE with PS2 imho. EVE is really a unique MMO sandbox with unique ingame rules, EULA, etc.

I´m not saying that one is better than the other one, they play in different "leagues" inside the same genre (MMOs) in my opinion. PS2 is more an online FPS with some MMO features, and EVE is the biggest MMO out there with a "special" gameplay (it´s more like a RTS).

In EVE there are legal scams ingame..., you can sell/buy accounts using the official forums.., you can play free monthly paying with ISK (EVE´s money), etc. It´s not good to copy a game that it´s made for an specific public, with many differences between them.

EVE player here and excited with PS2 :)

[Baneblade]

I admit, I actually did found a corporation in EvE whose entire revenue stream was creating and selling manufactured characters. I even had several production model series all worked out.

[Ipimpnoobs]

Sunrock: Your honorable person for sure and everyone can respect that.

Morf: I feel the same as you. I'd like to see this game get the profit it deserves. The content is truly amazing and I remember playing planetside 1 when it came out. It was way too advanced for me back then as I was very young and that monthly subscription was too expensive.

Tatwi: Pretty much your saying don't do it half way, go all the way! I respect that but disagree.

If you let people purchase cert's out right, then obviously the duration it takes to level diminishes. But the problem is the result, which is player retention.

I've linked a statistical study done by Thomas Debeauvis and Bonnie Nardi from UC Irvine, Diane Schiano from the Institute of Trans-personal Psychology, Nicolas Ducheneaut and Nicholas Yee from the Palo Alto Research Center talking about player retention in massive multiplayer video games. This study will give you a good understanding of retention. Please read this it is fantastic!
http://www.nickyee.com/pubs/FDG%20-%20Retention%20%282011%29.pdf

ISVRaDa: You make a very valid point. The similarity we are referring to is the leveling mechanism only, as it is very similar. I think eve is at the end of its life cycle, but it is a testament to their retention success.

Baneblade: One word HULKAGEDON!!!! DAMN U GOONS!!! lol j/k

RadarX: What we need to look at is the game your referring to had an alternate economy. If so, then this would explain why the feature was not used often. This game has station cash which allows players to have a job. That job is to play this game 24/7 and be able to profit from that. Imagine telling your parents, I play Planetside 2 and it pays for my apartment. The great thing is, it takes incredibly long time to level up a character. So when the gates open, it will not affect the game experience.

However, 6 months from now when the shiny fades, a player leaves selling their character for x amount. The new player buys the character and then since he got what he wanted either A) changes training path for a new profession, B) buys another account or C) leaves the game selling the account. If A, then they grind for roughly a year? The economy continues to flourish. If B, the economy continues to flourish. If C, the economy continues to flourish.

All the while, SOE reaps profit by keeping people in game buying station cash to help advance quicker and make their characters shinier.

The horror stories, I can imagine are like, "did you see what that noob did? He used the orbital strike on a friendly base during a friendly photo op." However, I can assure you this will happen regardless.
I think we need to strategize what is the best for long term gain. Pinching pennies is good but not while sacrificing dollars.

What is the impact of noob ebay account gamers? Play any mmo that is standing strong today and ask around. The bottom line, the game is profitable, has a constant player base and continues to gain 8% new players needed to cover the 9% loss. They all have to die. (~faulty sampling based on known population trends)

Post Script: Oh and don't take my word for it look for yourself http://www.playerauctions.com/ Guild wars 2 came out on 8/28/12 literally 8 days ago and look what is already for sell.

[Emperor Newt]

I have to admit that I have sold accounts before, although forbiden by NDA and the like. The thing is: if someone wants to do it, there is pretty not much a company can do about it (if done "right").
So why not include an official service where the company takes a small cut. In other case, the company get's nothing. In the end it's a win/win situation.

[maddoggg]

Hmm,earning money while playing my favorite game and leveling up chars.
I like it!!!